Why is abortion allowed in RC countries for rape but not for pregnancies conceived in violent relationships?

[Bubble99]

I'm curious about this and the other thread seems to have moved on.

I'll repeat myself. By allowing abortion for cases of rape, the RC church seems to accept the rights of a woman over a fetus. Why does this not apply then to whatever reason a woman has for seeking an abortion? Is there a 'sliding-scale' of worthiness?

Is rape only accepted as a reason if the rapist was not the husband or partner?

[multitasker]

Why are you curious? No RC woman is going to "check" with her church to see if she can have an abortion, that is a personal decision.

[Bubble99]

It is illegal in Ireland to have an abortion. As it is in Portugal. Women seeking abortion in these countries need to travel to the UK or Spain unless they have been raped, in which case, they can have an abortion in their own country.

So yes, they do have to 'check' with the church if they want to have an abortion at a local hosital.

[Budababe]

I may be wrong as haven't lived in ireland for years but AFAIK you can't have an abortion for any reason.

Famous case in Ireland some years ago about a 14 yr old who had been abused - in middle of legal proceedings parents discover she is PG and take her to London for an abortion. Her own legal team reported it (I think) as against the law.

So from then I think you can legally travel for an abortion but can't actually have one in Ireland.

[fireflyfairy2]

It's against the law.

A girl in my year at school travelled to England for an abortion. Her daddy told her he would buy her a mini if she got rid of the baby.

[Bubble99]

Ah! That may be more like it. Legally travelling for an abortion. The piece I read in The Times seemed to infer that abortion could be performed in these RC countries.

I nursed a woman a few years ago who had become PG after a lot of miscarriages. She and her husband were delighted until she had her first scan which showed that the baby had terrible deformities and would not survive after birth. She eventually had an abortion at 22 weeks as she had been 'bullied' (her term, not mine) by her local priest into 'waiting in case things got better for the baby.'

[chipmonkey]

You can't have an abortion in Ireland whether or not you've been raped. And it's Irish law, not the Catholic Church. If you're obeying the laws of the Catholic Church you cannot have an abortion full stop.

[Roobie]

There is no such thing as an "RC country". Yes, there may be a majority of catholics but that country's laws are not set by the RC church.

[chipmonkey]

Agree with Roobie. Irish laws are made by the Dail, not by the Catholic Church. However as most of the Dail are middle-aged Catholic men, the Church has some influence. The Catholic Church used to be mentioned in our constitution but that reference was removed in 1972.

[Roobie]

And re the OP - no, the RC church categorically do not allow abortion for cases of rape.

[Bubble99]

Roobie. Does Irish law allow women to travel for abortion in cases of rape?

[Roobie]

No idea - just clearing up the confusion over the teachings of the RC church versus the laws of a particular country.

[Bubble99]

Clearing up noted. Thankyou.

[MayoWoman]

I can only speak in relation to Ireland and my post will not answer the original question but to clarify some of the points raised. In 2002 following the X case - budababe refers to it in her post - a referendum was held and the vote was 49% for and 51% against so in fact it was not the dail nor the catholic church which passed this law it was the wish of the people at that time. Just wanted to clear that up.

[MayoWoman]

sorry it was the C case not the X case.

[chipmonkey]

Yes Bubble, wrt abortion we have freedom of information and freedom to travel.

[fireflyfairy2]

Bubble, the law doesn't allow for abortion in any case. {afaik unless someone wants to come along & correct me}

[chipmonkey]

I did hear the Master of the Rotunda on Radio one once saying that terminations were sometimes carried out discreetly if the life of the mother were at risk from the pregnancy. ( The Rotunda is a well-known Dublin maternity hospital.) The law states that mother and baby have an equal right to life.
Bubble, I would say that your patient who was bullied by the priest was being influenced by him as a religious leader, he would have no influence over the law.

[chipmonkey]

Mayowoman is right. For abortion to be allowed here we would have to hold another referendum and the question has to be put to the people. This applied to any proposed change in the constitution.

[Bubble99]

I felt so sorry for the Southern Irish women who came for abortions.

They often came for late abortions as they'd needed to save up to come.

Their husbands/partners had to stay in a B&B near to the clinic. They'd often had to leave their kids for the weekend. None of these women sought abortion lightly and yet the whole thing was so difficult for them.

[PrincessPeaHead]

can I point out that even in the UK there was no concept of rape within marriage until the mid 1980s.
your husband could do what he liked and legally it wasn't rape.

UNTIL THE MID 1980s!!!

Aurgh

[MayoWoman]

weren't women part of the chattels of a man

[Chandra]

As far as I know, in my country you can have an abortion for 3 reasons: rape, danger of death to the mother/product, and non authorised artificial insemination (how does the last one works I have never had a clue).

All this are authorised by law, none of them is condoned by the RC church.
Church and state are separate entities, but if a good chunk of the population is highly religious chances are some of these beliefs are reflected on the laws.