Menopause vs thyroid. Crying with frustration!

[notMrsRobinson]

I know this topic has been done many times and I really appreciated the recent (long) thread, which I found in a random google search but it had very comprehensive information, hats off to all the experts for sharing. I'd never considered thyroid until a few weeks ago. The story:

1. I was frustrated with my inability to lose weight despite 'trying everything' (I promise) so I went to holland and Barrett and bought some sea kelp tablets. Background I'm 50 don't look a day over 37 I'm told-- and have had really infrequent periods over the last year. Fine, I thought, it's the menopause, shouldn't mean I am doomed to be barrel shaped for the foreseeable future.
   
2. I took the sea kelp. Within a week had a massive bright red period, proper and sorry for TMI but it really caught me off guard with the intensity. So I did a bit of research via google to try to find a correlation between iodine/menopause and came up with thyroid as a separate issue.
   
3. I called dr, asked for test for thyroid and fsh for menopause. She was reluctant as the period symptoms are totally in line with menopause, I agree. But she instructed the tests, I went in and had blood done.
   
4. I called for results a week later as instructed only to be told that I needed a follow up consultation. That was on a Wednesday, the soonest they could do was the following Monday ie 2 weeks later for a phone consultation FFS!
   
5. I totally and utterly fell apart. I have never in recent memory felt so powerless. Huge sobbing crying tantrums with all my anger directed at the dr's for NOT TELLING ME whether it was thyroid or menopause...
   
6. this went on for a couple of days, I called again a couple of times but was told 'don't worry'. I could hardly function at work.
   
7. finally sobbed on phone to a kind receptionist who told me that she could see on her screen TSH 4.4. I was so relieved to get this. I'm booked in for that call on Monday but to my mind, that's a slightly high reading. And coupled with my other symptoms (MAJOR brain fog, ruining my life and career right now. I'd like to change jobs as I'm under employed but am scared to. Also slightly thin, tangly hair, sore joints and bad pain in soles of feet plus a few others).
   
   So my issue is, what if its both?? Should I demand thyroid investigation if my 'symptoms' could be due to either? Rather sad and embarrassed, I don't really want HRT as I prefer natural process etc and if its inevitable, so be it.
   
   I'm quite upset now, more sad than anything. The anger I felt could have been menopausal rage or. It could have been anger that I may have suffered from hypothyroid for a long time ( I'm really stuck in a rut right now, life-wise) and not known, contributing to my sticking to the low rung of my career ladder.
   
   I suppose all I can do is wait until Monday to see if dr has any major revelation ( I have no idea what FSh test came back as). In the mean time, I stopped the sea kelp and went on a junk food binge out of utter despair. I'm trying to pull myself together, I usually eat very healthily and go to yoga etc but I've felt that its out of my control so why bother! Apologies for the length.
   
   Really appreciate any words of wisdom!

[notMrsRobinson]

PS. Don't know if explained properly, I got the sea kelp as I'd heard that it could help speed up a slow metabolism!

[Eastpoint]

I don't have anything useful to add but bumping & sending you a

[Pleasemrstweedie]

With a TSH of 4.4, you certainly need further investigations. Have a good read of the Thyroid UK website before you speak to the doc.

Good luck!

[notMrsRobinson]

Thank you so much...am having a now contemplating my future I'm secretly hoping that a magic pill (ie thyroxine) will cure my problems but I'm aware that its a lifelong issue and I don't know if, given the option, I should demand medication.

If the dr says my results are 'normal' or If they say its probably not worth bothering (due to impending menopause) I'm going to get angry, which I don't want to do as I like and trust gp but this delay has really upset me... I just hope I can generate some constructive anger and not go all screaming banshee-- as I believe that may count against me (ie menopausal rage!) plus, gp is a lovely young woman and I don't want to let myself down, or tell her how to do her job!

[OinkBalloon]

UnMumsnetty ((((hugs))))

It really does sound like you're being slammed by the emotional memo symptoms. Difficult to unpick hypothyroid symptoms from it. My GP thought thyroid with me, and was surprised to find meno-grade FSH. But my thyroid was low ish, so she tried me out on thyroxine for a year or so. Also HRT. My god I give thanks for it twice a week, every time I change the patch. Yes, I too prefer natural treatment, but the mood swings, panic attacks, anxiety, and bad sleep just got too much for me. I'll try the natural way in a few years time.

Let your emotions show. I don't mean be a screaming banshee, but let the GP see how overwhelmed you are by it all. If you appear to be coping you get less treatment, because treatment in peri-meno occuring at the normal peri-meno age is really about helping you to cope, rather than any major medical need.

Another thing that has helped me hugely is reframing my attitude to the optional upheavals. Instead of thinking how horrible i am and drowning in them, I think to myself "this is caused by my wonky hormones. It will pass in a few minutes or hours and I'll be able to think straight again." So I'll put on hold whatever is bothering me, have a cup of tea, and return to the subject a few hours later. Knowing that I will be able to think straight really supports getting through a brainfreezing mood swing.

[OinkBalloon]

Emotional upheavals - I don't think they're optional, no matter how I reframe!

[notMrsRobinson]

Thank you oink! That gives me hope! Interesting that you were on thyroxine for a relatively short time, I thought it was a forever thing once you'd started?

It's hard to separate, for me, possible emotional upheavals due to legitimate reasons and those due to hormones...and by all accounts the hormone side will get worse before it gets better. I wonder if I'll know by trying, for example, HRT (if is is that!) whether I am upset due to hormones or just people/situations being genuinely worthy of causing me upset, if that makes sense! I doubt my own ability to judge!

I feel dullwitted and flabby right now, I eat right and exercise plenty but I've gained weight. I have been was wondering what was the point, it will be all downhill from here and I'd never really been up, so to speak. I would love to have a magic pill that would reveal the true me: calm of mind, sharp, witty, slim, supple, moving gracefully into my 50s and beyond, embracing the changes and remaining true to my inner principles! I don't suppose thyroxine or HRT could do that?

[notMrsRobinson]

Meant to add, will try the reframing mindset...I have lots to be thankful for but too many 'it's not fair' moments recently, must be hormonal and will eventually pass! In the meantime, waiting until Monday to see if dr will take it further...

[OinkBalloon]

I was borderline on the thyroid. I also had dry painful skin.

When I responded so well to HRT, and discovered that my skin problems were due to an allergy, I stopped taking thyroxine, and it made no difference to me.

When so much is happening at the same time, especially things that cause similar symptoms, it can take months of careful trial and error to find the right treatment.

But never doubt yourself. The fact that your test results are in the 'normal' range does not trump your symptoms or your distress. Something is wrong, and with careful trials and an open mind you will get to the root of the problem.

[notMrsRobinson]

Hi, I'm back with details... The thyroid result is 'borderline' TSH 4.4 and the other number was 11.9 whereas she said the normal range was 12, I cannot figure out what this was referring to but I'm sure I can chase it up with them. FSH was, she said, what you'd expect for peri menopause so I'm happy to put that aside. It is a problem (not my imagination) and its thyroid.

She said they'd wait a few months and repeat the test, typically. I said could we do something quicker than that?

She was keen for me to not start medication if unneeded because it is a life long thing but totally on board with me wanting to address the symptoms, this was a quick 5 minute phone call yesterday so she's going to get back to me today. I'm suddenly wondering what it is that I do want to get out of this! Really, a few months on any drug that would help me get through next few months with a bit of clearheaded thinking plus weight loss would be great. But am I committing to a lifetime of something I may not need, if I just worked harder to lose weight on get my life together?

As an aside, I'm having problems with an emotionally abusive H at the moment ( one for the relationships board, had loads of good advice) who seems delighted that I have a medical issue (ie ' I KNEW there was something wrong with you' etc) and I'm wondering if I got away from him if my thyroid would magically fix itself? Or on the other hand if I fixed the thyroid would I have the energy to leave him and get my life together? After all it is a 'borderline' result!

[Swanhildapirouetting]

Vitamin D deficiency is another v important element in depression anxiety. I am on Thyroxine 100 mg a day for Hashimoto's. A friend is on thyroxine for 10mg a day. She said she once tried and experiment and didn't take it for a few days and felt exhausted.

What is normal for you might not be the average range. I will have to go and find out my original T3 and T4 reading after school run.

Tbh thyroid problems are not the cause of anxiety and depression - they exacerbate them. And the same with weight loss issues - they are not magically cured by thyroxine. I am fatter than when I was first diagnosed. In some way the anxiety made me more manic - running around etc.

Kelp is not a substitute for thyroxine.

Try lots of sun fresh air whilst you are waiting for dr decision and definitely press for v small dose of thyroxine or ask for second opinion? I was referred to NHS thyroid consultant clinic not just seen by Dr.

[notMrsRobinson]

Many thanks swanhilda and hope it is going well for you now.

I need to pursue this, as you say it is exacerbating the issues. It does seem like dosage is critical, I was hoping dr would suggest starting thyroxine to see if it helped. I will see later today. I'm sad/angry as I've threw all my gym and diet intentions out the window as of a week ago as I figured there was no point if it was out of my control. Properly throwing my toys out if the pram! Now if to find a stretchy waisted skirt to wear for work. I've achieved what looks like an 7 month preg bump, I was actually admiring it proudly last night joking aside, I'll pull myself together!

[notMrsRobinson]

Ps as you suggested I am going to ask if they will prescribe me a small dose and try it out, I'm not sure if that fits with their policy but it seems sensible to me

[Pleasemrstweedie]

With thyroid results like yours, I would be on my knees, irrespective of anything else. My thyroid failed in menopause. Apparently it's quite common.

[notMrsRobinson]

MrsTweedle I am sitting at work feeling once again under par, I am trying to do something up and my mind keeps wandering and my confidence is zapped, I do feel like I've been on my knees for a while but just covering up for it by blaming my own incompetence or low blood sugar or emotional upheaval.. if I can take some thyroxine and suddenly be 'better' I am going to cry for the wasted time over past 3-4 years!

Going to call dr and demand a proper appointment. This can't wait!

[notMrsRobinson]

I'm more frustrated than ever. GP not back in the office until Thursday. They say she tried to call yesterday afternoon but I've had no missed calls and I had my phone in hand the whole time. I have now been scanning the internet to buy some thyroxine online. I am totallly and utterly having a meltdown over this!

[Zanzibaragain]

Hypothyroid and menopause at the same time, a nightmare to untangle all the symptoms .
I was lucky to have a GP who tested for both and treated both.
Be aware that a lot of the 'natural' menopause remedies are not compatible with levothyroxine such as soya based products.

[notMrsRobinson]

zanzibar I can't remember a time I've done so much sobbing. Called again tonight, first available appointment was 25th march, I sobbed on the phone and asked if I could come in and get test results and do my own research, I was so upset (unreasonably! It's not that bad??) so someone's going to call tomorrow morning. So I don't know if my distress is 1) menopause related 2) upset due to cruel and unsupportive H 3) general sadness due to thyroid issues I've been struggling with for years being curable if I can ever get a drs appointment!