DD allergic to milk - any advise on how to give MMR?

[mummamoo]

My DD is 6months and had a bad reaction to cows milk (given to her in rice pudding when weaning). I am still breastfeeding her so it was her first taste of cows milk. She has eczema too so I was kindof looking out for a reaction. Anyway... she's having blood tests on Friday for various things, eggs, nuts etc. I'm absolutely dreading it. They will take it from her hand.... and I have to get her to the hospital very early and on my own as DH is looking after our DS. It's going to break my heart I know but I think it's necessary to get her tested - does anyone disagree?
Also, I've had such mixed messages from various friends, doctors, homeopath... Does anyone have any experience of a risk of giving a child with an allergy to milk the MMR vaccine? The homeopath has told me not to give it to her at all or if I do to ensure it's the single vaccines. We looked into MMR loads when our DS was due to have his and we decided to give him the 3in1. Just because DD has an allergy and quite bad eczema, would giving it to her the same way cause problems (unless she's allergic to egg as know that's in the 3in1)? Help.. I'm so confused about everything. Think my brain may explode. Just want to do the right thing.

[Socci]

Message withdrawn

[bundle]

I think it's bonkers of your homeopath (who unless s/he is a qualified dr as well will know little or nothing about vaccines) to say a milk allergy would mean she can't have MMR (or that the singles would be ok). Egg allergy of course is a different matter. I hope the tests at the hospital go ok..why don't you ask their advice when you go?

[foxinsocks]

blood tests can be quite traumatic but they will numb the area to do the tests - 6 months seems quite young to do them, they often wait till they are older but I certainly would be pleased in your shoes that you've managed to get her seen by a paediatrician and I would really make sure you address all your concerns with him/her!

My dd had an egg and milk (and soya) allergy and had the MMR (in the GP surgery) fine. If the egg allergy is v severe (i.e. anaphylactic or causes major breathing difficulties) they tend to give it in hospital but even then, it is more of a precaution than anything else (and often because the GP surgery doesn't like to give it in the surgery if they feel there is even the slightest chance of a major reaction).

Ask the paed when you see her/him for the blood test. They will have the most up to date knowledge and are used to mums asking all sorts of stuff about allergies and vaccines. GOod luck!

[foxinsocks]

should say, everything I've said if from my experience - I'm not a doctor or anything medical

[DominiConnor]

Bundle is right, though I'd use stronger language than "bonkers" for using a homeopath to make medical deicsions.
This is why we have doctors who study for years, not charlatans who spread worry and fake cures for profit.
Of course you get mixed messages from these groups of people. Ask 10 americans who is likely to win the next Cricket world cup ,and your answers are likely to include Poland. If homeopaths gave the same answers as anyone who knoew what they were talking about, they'd go out of business.

Egg allergy is an issue for some jabs like flu since many are cultured in eggs.

This doesn't get the publicity it should because the witless artsgrads in the media obsess about faked MMR scandals.

You should have DD checked for allergy, we had this since between us we're allergic to eggs, pennicilin and peanuts.

But a "bad reaction" to milk is not the same as allergy. There is lactose intolerance, which although unpleasant is relatively easy to work around.
Also kids do just randomly react, and it's not always to the thing they had most recently.

[Socci]

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[Medulla]

MMR is no longer given in hospitals for children with egg allergy as egg is no longer used in the manufacturing process. DS has severe egg allergy and he had his MMR last week in the doctors surgery with no problems. I have never heard of milk causing a problem though

[lou33]

ds2 was allergic to dairy, soya and wheat, and had the mmr no problems

[DominiConnor]

Firstly homeopath is a western medicine, it's just a discredited one, like blood letting and phrenology.

The dilution process means ther is no part of the so called active ingredient. Not "very little", not "ever such a tiny amount", but none, zero.

This is basic chemistry, if you couldn't do that calculation you should not be able to pass GCSE chemistry, or indeed physics.

I'll do this very simply.
A drop of stuff , any stuff is something like 1 follwed 20-25 zeroes atoms.
That's a big number.
I fear I must offend Socci by using what we right brained western types call "division by 10"

When you divide by 10 you knock off a zero, and 2 zeroes if you divide by 100
Trust me on this

Look at a bottle of one of thise fake remedies.
You will see a term like 25c or 50c
a "c" means diluting by one part in 100
25 c means doing this 25 times.
So we knock off 2 zeroes 25 times. Say we start with 1 with 24 zeroes of the fake.
oops
After merely 24/2 = 12 such dilutions we only have (on average) 1 moelcule left. We do know that even at this extreme dilution some medical effects may occur.
But we've a long way to go.
13 more dilutions, each reducing the amount by a factor of 100.

Thus it is now 1 with 26 zeroes to 1 against that you have even one molecule left. There are only 6 with 9 zeroes people in the world.
Thus if you gave this fakery to everyone on Earth who has ever lived every second for their entire life the odds are millions agianst you that even one person gets even one molecule of the "cure".

Some stuff is 50 "c", that's dilution to one part in 1 with 100 zeroes. Not easy to say what that's like. I might compare it with taking the entire observable universe and dluting it, but that's a really apthetically small number in comparison.

Given that many so called cures are based upon "natural" things, it is actually the casew that stuff like arsenic is already in the body, so if there was any benefit to it, we'd already be there.

Is there any part of that too "western" or difficult for you to understand.

As it happens the person who taught me this stuff came from a place far to the east of here....

[mummamoo]

Thank you all so much for putting my mind at rest about the MMR and giving it to children with allergies. My DH and I think it will be fine and it is our gut feeling to give it to our DD in the doctor's surgery. Homeopath and MIL think otherwise but there's nothing better than asking other mum's advice who are in the same situation - thanks

DC - We haven't used the homeopath to make medical decisions. We are simply trying to look into every possible option. Maybe we're daft as getting horribly confused but please read the threads properly before replying in future. Blood tests for allergy/intollerance happening on Friday morning.

[Jimjams2]

I don't think any homeopath would say that homeopathy works by molecular means DC. If they want to "explain" it most would use quantum mechanics. My quantum mechanics isn't up to the job of following the argument, but your "reason" for it not working is a non-argument. No-one has ever suggested it does work in that way. You're good at coming up with arguments against hypotheses that no-one has ever suggested.

Although there's this I don't think its an argument or explanation that homepaths would go for particularly though.

The homeopath shouldn't have told you not to give it though. If you're concerned then ask to see a consultant first, and ask for it to be given in hospital (which will mean MMR rather than single jabs).

[bundle]

good luck with the tests, mummamoo, I hope I didn't come across as trying to tell you not to visit a homeopath, that's your choice, obviously. But immunisation is way off their radar

dominiconnor
ahem
I am a witless artsgrad, working in the media...

[Socci]

Message withdrawn

[Jimjams2]

I think DC drives a very big car.......

[smoggie]

DC what possible benefits do you think your posts provide apart from to incite and insult?

ANyway for the OP, my ds1 was allergic to egg, gluten and nuts and was fine (administered in hospital in case of egg reaction). DS2 allergic to milk received it 3 months ago and he too was fine. Good luck in your decision.

[DominiConnor]

Well as it happens I've done a bit of quantum stuff, and I can follow arguments in it.
Never actually heard the one for homeopathy.
I've heared about it, but whenever I mention that I can do the maths, the charlatan pushing it dries up big time.
feel free to reduce my ignorance with an explanation that isnpt of the form "quantum physics is really hard, there is uncertainty so anything can happen".

Just because QM is a bit unintuitive and involves equations does not mean you can say "that's quantum" in the manner of a Terry Prachett character.

[mummamoo]

Hi Bundle! No worries at all, no offence taken by tour post. Just wish DC had read it properly!

[mummamoo]

tour should read your

[Jimjams2]

DC I'm not one to bullshit about stuff I know nothing about (unlike some). I was simply pointing out that your argument was irrelevant. Whether or not you can "do" quantum mechanics (and I very much suspect your are at about the same level as me- you seem to frequnetly like to pretend you know more than you do) is also irrelevant.

[Socci]

Message withdrawn

[DominiConnor]

My job is quite intermittent, and anyway it's a form of semi retirement.

I'm Not an expert in QM, but that's irrelevant to this point. No one has even tried to bullshit me on an "explanation" of homeopathy using quantum theory.
Even something of the form "protons are small and red, the same colour as haemoglobin" would be an advance on the arm waing and personal attacks.

I'm not an expert in Q, no way, and have no doubt that someone who knew the area could feed me something quite untrue.
But...
I don't ever hear explanations, false ones or not.

I hear "it's quantum ,so it must be true".
or
"you aren't as clever as you think", which is quite possibly true, but hardly a proof of homeopathy.

Given that QM has often defeated some of the smartest people I know, I also am entertained by the notion the claims people have for their detailed understanding of quantum homeopathy.

There seems to be something about "life force" that increases people's gullibility to a level you simply don't see in any other area.
Try faith healing on a broken video tape, see how far you get. Hebal remedies for traffic congestion sound cool, but unlikely.
I don't see homeopathic travel agents ("a little bit of diluted Ibiza for you madame ?")

Though I have read of a holistic detective agency operating in Cambridgeshire

[Jimjams2]

er none of which detracts from the fact that your 'argument" was a response to a non existent argument, which was my point. I also haven't seen anyone say "it's quantum so it must be true". I haven't said that on here (are you suggesting I have?).

There are some studies regarding homeopathy- none reach the gold standard of double blind clinical trials because you can't do that with homeopathy. The most I would ever say to anyone is try it if you want to, it's unlikely to damage- after all its just water- right? It's about the cheapest alternative medicine you can get anyway- and if you get a good homeopath will double as a counselling session. If you don't want to -fine.

I don't see that people using homeopathy has any effect on your life whatsoever, so I don't quite see the need for a rant and rave. I have no idea whether homeopathy works or not. I do know it hasn't wreaked the havoc that the misuse of allopathic medicine has on this particular family.

[FillyjonktheBananaEater]

Yes, I too am a witless artsgrad

And also a science undergrad.

Now how does that work?

(and I did law conversion too....oooh)

[Socci]

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[mummamoo]

DC - I have to say I'm fairly new to posting on mumsnet but can see from the threads here that you are not and also that you are not popular. I would just like to say that I agree with Jimjams2 that your 'argument" was a response to a non existent argument. You have been nothing but unhelpful to my first post so please bog off and go and annoy someone else, preferably not on mumsnet.