MMR - is anyone here absolutely convinced that mmr caused autism/adverse reaction to a child they know?

[Jahan]

I don't want to start an mmr debate. I'm just interested in that question.

[nuttymum1]

my half brother is 3.8 and my step mym is convinced that the mmr caused his autismn

[fattiemumma]

my X dp's cousin is now 16 and his mother is absolutley convinced that his MMR caused his severe AS.

[TuttiFrutti]

My friend is convinced that her 6 year old's autism was caused by the MMR.

[jabberwocky]

We have some good friends who say that was the trigger for their daughter. I also have a patient who said it caused autism in her son.

[Jimjams2]

Yes.

The child in question had very long seizures within 24 hours of the MMR. He was in HDU, they weren't convince3d he would make it. The paed said he thought it was probably MMR triggered.

He is 7, severely autistic, in nappies non verbal.

My ds1 is 7, severely autistic, toilet trained (although he enjoys weeing everywhere), non-verbal and that was not MMR triggered.

Most people working on this would say that appprox 7% of cases of autism are MMR triggered. That is not a huge number, in fact its a very small number, but those children still exist.

Would be nice if the potentially vulnerable could be identified pre-MMR.

[fatfox]

Our previous childminder told me her son's learning difficulties and epilepsy were triggered by his MMR booster at age 4. She said he could previously read/count etc and was very advanced but as soon as he had his booster; he had repeated lengthy convulsive fitting and following that, he became epileptic. His learning regressed and he has been special needs ever since - he is also "on the spectrum" but I'm unclear of the details on that.

A distant relative of ours also became severely autistic following his MMR; but we don't know that branch of the family well enough to ask the details.

When we were children, the policy was that if a child had a poor immune system; they were not given vaccines. Thus, my sister did not have any vaccines, as she had very serious eczma, asthma etc. This was in the late 1960's

[kittywits]

My eldest son now 8 was the only one of my children to have had the mmr.
Very soon after he had it he underwent a very worrying change. He basically stopped eating, stopped speaking and stoppped growing. I spent a long time with medical experts, keeping diaries and generally worrying myself sick.They couldn't identify the cause but knew something was amiss.
Someone suggested I took him to a cranial osteopath. She said that it felt as if he had had a recent great trauma to his system,it couldn't cope and it had "shut down".
It took 6 months to get him back on track. She also said that she had treated many children whose bodies appeared traumatised by the mmr.
He wore cloth nappies and soon after the jabs had really horrible, loose poos with bits of undigested foos (tmi) and I know that the bowels can be affected by the jabs. These have now only just started to improve.
No one can ever say for certain. But I am convinced enough to have refused this jab for all of my younger 4 children. I won't take that risk.

[cleaninglady]

kittywits - have your other children been immunised at all? my dd had singles and my ds is now 2 and not had mmr or singles as the singles became virtually impossible to get in our area. am considering mmr now but wondering if its better that I have waited until he was 2 or does that not make any difference? any opinions anyone? (sorry for slight hijack)

[fatfox]

Sorry to encourage the hijack - and also butt in cleaning lady and kittywits - I've given both of mine single jabs as I don't think its worth the risk. My decision was based on "real life" sories I'd been told about MMR reactions by other families; rather than press reports etc.

[kittywits]

Cleaninglady the next 2 had the 3 sets of baby jabs. it was unfortunate that during one of these chils no 3 got an awful reaction on the site of the injection. i was a hard and angry looking red lupm. it is no longer ed but light brown. it is still rock hard 4 years late and is clearly visible. As you might imaging that did it for me and the younger 2 haven't had any jabs at all. Dp and I have researched it and are happy with our decision. Ehen the girls get older I would like them to have the bcg (probably).
A nurse at the doctors taday was telling me that they are introducing even more jabs, the next lot are against pneumonia and other such unecessary stuff . I know most people have all the jabs though.

[kittywits]

bloody hell my typos are getting worse and worse. Could you understand anything in the previous post?

[fatfox]

I could, but don't think it was meant for me

Anyway I agree with it

[PanicPants]

I've heard that the single jabs are unlicensed here? Is that true?

[Socci]

Message withdrawn

[cleaninglady]

kittwits - some of it still trying to work out how many children you actually have though!
must admit im "scared" not to immunise at all but the singles are a nightmare to get done - but i suppose its not about how difficult it is its about his health and if i did it for dd then he should be afforded the same courtesy dd is overdue pre school booster as well but a whole other issue with me there about why bother with imms in the first place if you have to have them again in case they didnt take first time and then no guarantee they take the second time?!
the 5 in 1 jab for babies makes me cringe as well but not confident enough to deterimine why?! have until wednesday to decide.....

[fatfox]

Not an expert on this but I understand that each individual strand of jab used has to be licensed or it can't be imported. Some single jabs are used by GPs routinely anyway e.g rubella for girls of chhild bearing age. Our single rubella jabs were given free by a co-operative GP.

[cleaninglady]

fatfox - did you/will you have boosters for the singles as well?

[fatfox]

Cleaninglady - DS aged 6 has had all three singles between ages 2 and 3. He's also had a booster for measles and will have his rubella booster next week; then eventually his mumps.
DD has had the first round but is only 3, so too young for the boosters - but she will have boosters.

Interestingly the clinic told me that the rubella booster is "discretionary for boys"; which I assume refers to the fact that boys can't get pregnant and therefore can't have an unborn child harmed by rubella.

Following that logic, DD doesn't need the mumps; as mumps is only dangerous for boys.

But the social responsibility bit has made me want to give them all three; for example I'm PG at the moment and would hate it if DS unwittingly passed rubella to a pregnant mum.

I do know people who have girls and have only given them the single measles jab though; as its only measles which is a serious disease as it were (although someone is bound to correct me on that!)

[Cassoulet]

I used to work with autistic children and came to believe (looking at old video footage and being played tapes of children pre-mmr) that in some cases teh mmr looked like a very likely cause. A speech therapist I knew waited until her child was 2 before he had the mmr; I waited until mine was 3 and she had the singles, though she had the mmr booster at 5. A child's brain is constantly developing and growing until about 2.5 when most of the basic growth is done - after that the development is mainly making connections between existing neurones. I waited until I was sure that growth process was over and I knew my dd and the way she was developing well enough to be sure she was strong and healthy before I let her have the singles. I would have let her have the mmr at 3 as we couldn't afford the singles, but my mum stepped in and paid for them. Hope this helps.

I don't know why the gov can't sponsor some research looking at the 3 groups (mmr, singles and no vaccine) and compare the autism rate in each. That would tell us a lot more than any of the other stuff floating around. I suspect they're very scared of being hit with a lot of compensation claims....

[fatfox]

They've already paid some compensation to families whose children have been damaged by MMR but only a handful and have tried to keep it quiet.

I agree its the fear of mass litigation which is making the government dig their heels in; rather than genuine concern for what's best for children.

[kittywits]

Cleaninglady I have 5 and 1/4 children Don't worry I have trouble working it out too!

[fatfox]

Cassoulet - when you were observing the children, did you get the impression it was the initial MMR jab, or the booster, which was doing the damage?

I'm only asking as there is a theory that it's the booster at 4 which overloads the system and wondered what you thought.

[cleaninglady]

thanks cassoulet - i think i will wait for ds to have them for 6 months or so then go down the singles route based on the brain development info - interesting fatfox about the rubella/mumps thing but agree that passing it on to a pregnant women wouldnt be responsible so would be best to have the 3. am going to go with the singles at 2 1/2ish so thanks for your input! again apols for hijack

[Cassoulet]

Yes, and I've worked for a family which did win some compensation but it was an absolute nightmare and quite frankly, most parents are so fraught trying to bring up an autistic child, hold down a job to pay for the extra stuff you need, pay for therapy etc etc etc not to mention meet the needs of other kids in the family, that most parents simply can't do it. This family were luckly in that they knew a lawyer who specialised in autism/mmr claims, but most lawyers don't and often get nowhere. If the gov could show me proper statistics showing that the proportion of autistic kids in the mmr group is the same as in the other 2 groups then I'd half believe them, but honestly after all their evasions I'm not sure I'd believe that they hadn't cooked the books.

[kittywits]

Fatfox, I remember seeing a t.v. prog about this and there were a number of families whose children had been fine up until the booster jab. It seems to be such a lottery as to whether your child wil react badly or not. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.