Breath Holding

[sheron]

HELP - twice my 3 week old baby has seemingly held / stopped her breath for 3 / 4 seconds and then gasped for air - both time following hysterical crying due to a colic attack. Our GP says this is not uncommon and is a result of the baby panicking - but im very worried and its a scary experience - has anyone else had a similar experience?

[Mum2FunkyDude]

I've heard about this in older babies. Does your baby do this at certain times? Maybe after feeding, before pooing etc?

[JackieNo]

It seems quite common - my DS used to do it, and the midwife taught me to blow into his mouth, which made him take a breath, iyswim. Didn't last very long, so hopefully it will pass for you too.

[belgo]

Yes. I've been wondering if any other kids did that. The gasp reflex should always start them breathing again. My dd between the ages of 10 and 24 months lost consiousness 6 times due to stopping breathing after crying a lot. This is very scary, and she's had a load of tests but there is nothing wrong with her. I do get annoyed when people call it breath holding because that implies it's a conscious decision to stop breathing, but of course it isn't. Those seconds when they don't breathe are terryfing, so I can sympathise.

[sdjones2]

Ha ha Belgo. Ours is 3.5 and still can pass out if holding her breath (some 5% can apparently). Usually when she has bumped herself, but also with tanturms. Nursery just deals with it (now warned) and school has to . . .

Just so long as she doesn't bang herself on the stair gate at the top of the stairs when told she cannot have Saturday sweets this evening we should be okay.

[ilovecaboose]

My ds has always done it as far as I remember. When he (still) has screaming fits its like he can't catch his breath for a few seconds.

He's 22 months now and I find it less scary the older he gets as I know it is only going to be a few seconds (though it used to feel like a lifetime).

Blowing in their mouth sounds good - I used to do similar. They will start breathing again - I always think of it like when you jump into a freezing cold swimming pool and you can't catch your breath immediately.

Scary - but shouldn't actually do any harm/

[belgo]

sdj - what worrys me sometimes if she does it while eating, she fell off her chair one time with food in her mouth, lost consciuosness and had a fit, so I always put her into the recovery position. Blew into her mouth one time, but that made no difference. She starts nursery school on friday, should I tell them? It's called reflex anoxic seizure.

[sdjones2]

Hi Belgo - well I would certainly tell school (and what the likely first aid is) and especially what the recovery pattern is. That way they will not expect to send child home every time. Our DD is old enough to ignore if she hits the deck and doesn't injure herself. The school thought she should come home at first, each and every time. Any idea how many spats with other children result in tanturms?! First time converstaion on the phone: Child has collapsed and you have to come and get her - what is she doing now? - oh, running around the playground. DOH! We have had to be pretty assertive that she is not sent home . . .

Hell of an introduction though. Choking fit, nice! Maybe there is a web page to print off to give to the teaching staff, in addition to the usual first aid warnings.

[mummydoc]

belgo my dd2 has reflex apnoeic seizures and i get really cross when people say she is breath holding - they are quite differnt RAS is not a behavioural thing whereas breath holding after crying or a tantrum is. she is starting nursery in a few weeks and i have been in to chat about it ( my DD ALWAYS needs resusitating and has never self-recovered) . I found an orginisation which i think is called STARS which is a help group for parents they had good leaflets and info about it you could give to nursery.

[belgo]

Thanks mummydoc. I'll have to see if I can find any info in dutch. The problem is is that the doctors here have only called it a crying spell and she has recieved no diagnosis. I only know what it is because her english godmother is a paediatrician (usefull person to know), and identified RAS. I thought children with this would always self recover, (although it takes the rest of the day before my dd is back to her usual self) although that seems not to be the case for your dd2, that must be scary.

[2now4]

thankyou all - yes it appears to be straight after crying and working herself into a panic - as only 3 weeks old clearly not a behavioural thing. blowing on the mouth a really useful tip thankyou.

[sugarfree]

My little boy has RAS too,diagnosed at 2.We were told by his paediatric neurologist that self recovery is a part of RAS,if they need resuscitating after every episode then I would doubt the diagnosis.
Do you mean she needs CPR after every episode,Mummydoc?

[Overrun]

Have just been to my gp about my son who has had episodes of breath holding since 7/8 months. After reading another thread about RAS, i decided to check it out, particularly as he is due for a hernia op soon.
He is being referred to a ped neurologist, but part of me wishes I hadn't mentioned anything, as this is going to delay his operation for a hernia even more. He fits the breath holding catergory more than RAS, but there are some aspects of it that fit the description of RAS.

[belgo]

Overrun - you best have it checked out, if it is RAS, then the aneasthetist should know about it. My dd has three times stopped breathing and lost concsiuousness due to a bang on the head, and then has had a fit, and three times the cause was simply losing her breath while crying. You'll know yourself if they deliberatly holde their breath, but in my dd's case, it certainly insn't a consious decision to stop breathing. It's a relief to me to know exactly what it is.

[belgo]

mummydoc, just a thought, but if your dd never self recovers, what about having a pacemaker fitted? I've heard that some children have these.

[Overrun]

I know I did the right thing, as you say Belgo it needs checking out, it's just that we find his groin hernia when he was 3 months old, waited till he was 15 months old to be seen by consultant and had just been pencilled in for surgery after his second birthday, now it is all on hold.
I would be worrying myself sick if I hadn't said anything but god, I don't reckon he will get his op till he is three now. I know its not a major op, but I think he is going to be more distressed the older he is

[mummydoc]

to be honest I have never left dd long enough to self recover ( the only time i did she hadn't breathed for 2 mins and panic/medical training kicked in) she doesn't need cpr as har heart doesn't stop but i always do mouth to mouth resus. how long does it normally take for your dc to recover ...she has had a ct/eeg and 24 hr cardiac monitoring and all normal - i am reluctant for anymore investigations but itis scarey when she does it.

[sugarfree]

Mummydoc,can you call the paediatric neurology clinical nurse specialist at your hospital or STARS for some advicefor more advice about this specifically?
I'm concerned that as she grows and becomes more independent from you,you may not always be there to give mouth to mouth.
Nursery staff may be trained,but how often do they have to carry it out in practice?(no disrespect meant to nursery staff)What about when she goes to friends houses?You follow my thinking?
I'm sure STARS must know the cut-off point for when she should self recover,and what to do next please give them a call.

[sugarfree]

I think the longest DS2 was out for was about a minute, but tbh it always felt much,much longer than it actually was at the time.He is almost 7 now and hasn't had an episode in 3 years.

[mummydoc]

sugarfree thanks so much i really don't know why i didn't think of it myself, i will ring today ( when finished am surgery of course . i have timed dd2 as i did htink i was misjudging the time as it does seem an age when they go out odesn't it.

[sugarfree]

Let us know how you get on.

[angelaj1]

hello - was looking for conversations on breathing and foundthis - my 15 week old has had 2 episodes last week when aslepp made funny noises then appeared to stop breathing for 2 seconds before gasping, have been told by soem people he may have just been dreaming and got scared and panicked hence the gasping - was petrified though and took him to hospital where they found nothing wrong
Any ideas?

[3andnomore]

To angelaj1...sounds to me like your lil one could have a condition called Sleep apnea...defiantely have it checked out!
Sheron, to you aswell, definately have it checked out....there are so many different things that can cause breatholding....it could jsut be blue or pallid breatholding, but it could be Reflex anoxic seizures (this is actually when the heart stops, ratehr then what we would usually understand under a seizure) or epileptic fits or syncopes....The Stars wesite that was mentioned might be able to help you a bit!
My es and now my ys did/do this...with them it's "just" the blue and the pallid Breatholding...blue at a tantrum, pallid after pain or a scare...he can go through phases where he will have a few a day and then weeks without....but he was over a year when he started it, so, in such a young Baby it must be even more terrifying.
With RAS or Breatholding the child will automatically start breathing again before there is a true lack of oxygen...basically as soon as there isn't any fresh oxygen coming up to the brain the brain has a "system" that kickstarts breathing immediately, and the child will recover quickly, my ds gets all sweaty and hot and will be tired for a wee while, but he isn't confused in any way!
We do blow in his face, but that is really more to feel like we are doing somehting...but mainly we just pick him up and hold him and talk to him calmly as to make the waking up as + as possible.
A lot of people seem to feel it's an attention seeking issue, and not disputing at all, that they may could click on to it somehow, but generally the tantrum or pain is real and they just gasp for air so much that the windpipe closes, and that is a mechanism that is involuntary, and I ahve read somewhere it might be to do with a "unripe" nervous system!
Sorry to be so longwinded.

[angelaj1]

thanks 3andnomore - have looked up a few sites and I do think it sounds like what he's suffering from have doctors appointment on Thursday