My poor DD 12 yrs old. History of bad periods, Tricycling the pill, but terrible PMS. Hope this gets more traffic herex

[piratecat]

Hoping putting this here about dd will get some responses of PMT management etc.
Hiya, dd has long history of terrible periods. Pain when not on periods, headaches before periods etc...

This has resulted in her now being allowed to 'tricycle' the pill after seeing the specialist at hospital, this was about 6 months ago. The aim, to stop the effects on her life of pain and time off school.
The stress all round gave us little choice, and planning her her periods to coincide with school holidays seemed to be the answer to a really difficult pattern.

(She was put on the pill with permission from the hosp before this, but was bi-cycling)

Only, it has turned out that whilst the periods are slightly improved, she still has PMS symptoms in the week before, this week terrible headaches.(this is month one, so is carrying on with another pack today)

Last month severe period pains in the week before, no pains during bleed. (this was at the end of month two of continuous pill taking but i wanted the bleed to happen in half term)

The time before, again terrible headaches which she had 3 days off school.

I went to the GP last night and she reluctantly changed the pill again. dd had been on the last one about 5 months, and has been on two others.

Should i go back to the specialist? Does anyone have any expereince of tri-cyling but still have PMS? What did you help it?
Can i safely say that this particular pill didn't cut it?

I have also had her on Magnesium OK vit for women, Evening Primrose.

Doc has also prescribed Ferrous fumerate, but a little worried this will give her tummy probs or bung her up. I had been giving her Spatone, but IF she is anemic then apparently this isn't strong enough.

Specialist has said it's not ENDO, and no signs of PCOS. If that helps, she said the symptoms are attributed to dd just having a small but hellish time of it.
Having periods is bad enough isn't it really, but dd has such alot more to suffer with them. She started when she was 9.10.

Really looking for help or advice thanks xx

[JuliaScurr]

sympathy for your poor dd
if you get no joy, try alternative therapy. I've had good results re MS (which is totally different) and others have with these kind of 'untreatable' mysterious ailments
herbalism, acupuncture, but mostly nutritional therapy
all private :(
and hideously expensive esp nutritional
but I'd def consider it

[JuliaScurr]

[http://www.nutritional-therapy.org.uk/menstrual.asp]
[http://newmedicinegroup.com/practitioners/dr-damien-downing/]

might help
but £££

[JuliaScurr]

newmedicinegroup.com/practitioners/dr-damien-downing/

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Endometriosis cannot be ruled out here despite them saying what they have done. Has she had a laparoscopy?.

What sort of specialists has she seen to date; has she actually seen a consultant gynae?. She really needs to see a specialist gynae; not just any old one at the local hospital as some of them are far better than others.

All they seem to be trying and failing to do here is manage the symptoms rather than as well finding out WHY this is happening.

I would suggest that your DD keeps a daily pain and symptom diary if this not already being done as this will also give the gynae clues. You will need to be persistent in order to get answers.

I would still go down the conventional route rather than solely using alternative methods because you need to know for definite the root cause of her problems.

[piratecat]

hiya, i will dig out the letter and find out who we saw Atilla. xx

[piratecat]

no, it was said as she has had no other bleeding then she hasn't got endo, so no lap.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

BTW PCOS would not cause such pain to arise so I can see why they have said that.

However, I remain unconvinced when they say that its not endometriosis; they do not seem to have properly investigated that at all likely due to her tender age. However, 12 is not too young to develop endometriosis. I had this from the onset of menses at 14 but I simply did not realise. I certainly knew that many of my friends did not suffer half as badly with their periods and days leading up to them as I did.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"no, it was said as she has had no other bleeding then she hasn't got endo, so no lap"

because she has no other bleeding so it cannot be endometriosis, absolute poppycock!. Something is causing the pain to arise and it is certainly in your interests to find out why this is happening. They have fobbed you off here big time by saying that. Also they cannot rule it out anyway because a lap op has not been carried out. I do not think that they have considered endo at all here because she is supposedly too young to have it.

[ppeatfruit]

Good on you for giving her evening primrose you could try a good strong camomile tea at bedtime and or supplements. Does she eat a lot of fresh fruit and veg.?

Linseed oil is also good and turmeric supplements.

[ppeatfruit]

Does she have a lot of dairy food because of course that is oestrogenic?

[Cocolepew]

Magnesium ok is good , she needs to have at least 200mg of magnesium everyday. I cant remember the dose in Magnesium OK. This will strengthen her muscles and ligaments which in turn will lessen the cramps and bleeding. I would give her B vitamins too.
If she is in painbefore it, especially lower back or leg pain she could have a tilted womb. When her womb startes to get bigger then it presses on nerves and muscles.
If she craves carbs or sugar with her pms it would be best if she cut then down, though thats easier said than done! If she craves sugar I think Chronium can help .
I agree with Atilla about the endo. I had horrendous periods for years and was only told I had endo a couple of years ago when I had an MRI before a hysterectomy.

I hope she finds something to help her soon

[piratecat]

i get the rage when i see things like you've written Attila, that it can't possibly be endo if no other bleeding.

Have failed in finding the letter, my paperwork skills are ok, but there's so much i haven't sorted out for ages. She went to the gynaecologist dept of womens health and maternity.
I do have a card, saying i can go directly back to to them, within reason. Will call them tomorrow and also find out the name of who we last saw.
She doesn't eat much dairy, but does have some in her diet yes, a little cheese, and milk on cereal.

[piratecat]

Magnesium OK,

Vitamin D 2.5µg
Vitamin E 10mg
Vitamin C 30mg
Thiamin (B1) 5.0mg
Riboflavin 5.0mg
Vitamin B6 50mg
Folic Acid 200µg
Vitamin B12 10µg
Magnesium 145mg
Zinc 8.0mg
Iodine 100µg
Copper 1.0mg
Potassium 8.0mg
Selenium 25µg
Chromium 50µg

do we need more B vits?

I bought Agnus Castus yesterday. Can i give this to a 12 yr old.

[Cocolepew]

If you have a Google it reccomends 100mg of vit b6 for PMS, so she would need more. The magnesium is slightly low. I would give her this still but supplement it with another magnesium tablet for a couple of months and see if it makes any difference. Having heavy periods depletes your magnesium levels which cause the periods to be worse .

I have my DD the Mag. OK but an extra magnesium and vitamin b tablets. To be honest the magnesium worked very well in a short space of time, her periods were less heavy within a month.

[Cocolepew]

heres a website that might help

[piratecat]

thankyou Cocolepew.

will get more Magnesium and B6. Have you tried Agnus Castus?

[LadyGardenersQuestionTime]

Not sure what tricyclling the pill means but dd went straight on to the pill with no breaks between packets, stopped all symptoms and periods, she was transformed within a few months. Now is 20 and has an implant.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Its not generally a good idea to self medicate with AC as it can make any underlying hormonal problems worse. Also if endo is present it will not make a hill of beans difference.

I would insist to the GP that your DD is now referred to somewhere else other than her local hospital; one in a bigger city may serve her and you better.

[cedar12]

Vitamin b6 is great for bad periods. I hope get this sorted out and she feels better soon.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"She went to the gynaecologist dept of womens health and maternity".

That sounds more like a general womens health department/unit than an actual gynaecology unit.

Be persistent and continue to seek answers for both your DD and yourself; its all too easy to be fobbed off.

[Cocolepew]

No I never tried Angus Castus myself. A girl I work with uses the magnet you clip onto your pants for her pms and cramps. I used one when I started to get menopausal symptoms but not when I had periods , she seems to think it has helped.

I was thinking about this thread when I went to pick the DDs up. DD1 used to get very tearful/angry/irritated and irritating the week before her period. I realised that this has stopped completely, but she has been on St Johns Wort for anxiety so its probably that that has helped her.

[piratecat]

i guessed it wasn't best to self medicate with the Agnus Castus, and i don't think the St JOhns Wort would be right for her, as she's generally cheery as she can be with this pain. Yes she has moods, but not too bad.

This hospital is a big one in the south west Atilla, i googled and they do have alot of consultants, and clinics. Maybe i do need to push for one of those.
I did ask outright about endo, but she said she doesn't show any symptoms of it, which of course was music to my ears, yet surely if you are saying what you are saying then it could be a possibility?

By that, no bleeding inbetween periods, and the pain she has is occasional and in the week before, but not every cycle. It's the headaches that have surfaced the most.

Tri-cycling is exactly that, taking one pack after another, in this instance for 3 packs, sometimes 2 to fit in with term.

[piratecat]

day three of severe headache so she is in bed again. changed the pill yesterday. all the advice for hormone headaches says the pill could help
maybe its just the other pill that wasn't good anymore.

i really thought going on the pill and taking packs back to back would help.

[JennyOnAPlate]

Why does she have to have a break after 3 packs? I'm pretty sure there's no medical reason to have the 7 day breaks at all (although I don't know if there is an issue because of her age)

[piratecat]

i have no idea either Jenny. Prob to cover their arses, as she is so young and to make lher cycle more normal seeming?

The prob we have is at the end of the pack now, going into another she is getting mood swings, headaches, and last month period pain.

It's not doing what it's meant to be doing really.

I spoke to a Kinesiologist today, after having a chat with a lady in the Health food shop.

We are going to see her in two weeks to see what thoughts she has.
She was pretty aghast on the phone that dd is on the pill at all, as it's masking problems in her view. Which i accept will be the view of any 'alternative' treatments or therapies.

I hear postitive things about her though so worth a trip.