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Calling all Raggedies - the THIRD Ragged Bits thread. Childbirth injuries, sphincter problems, fistulae... all welcome.

(873 Posts)
Jacksmania Fri 26-Oct-12 19:08:26

First thread here, May 2008 to June 2009.

Second thread here, June 2009 to Oct 2012.

Welcome everyone with ragged bits due to childbirth. We're sorry you had to find us, but we promise to hold your hand and listen.

There is no TMI here and nothing is too gross, too embarrassing or too horrible.

<lays out tea tray, buffet and alcoholic bar>

All welcome.

yellowcurtains Fri 26-Jun-15 23:12:12

Thank you mother puffin. She's actually a child, and not given birth. I did have another thread, but not had many responses. I was trying to find out what prolapse feels like to see if it matched what she described. She's not in serious pain, but does have low-level pain, and discomfort, and has done for a fortnight now.

Motherpuffin Fri 26-Jun-15 23:01:03

Yellowcurtains I'm sorry your DD is suffering, I had a similar feeling after having my daughter. If she suffered internal tears during birth the stingy pain could be scar tissue that's 'proud' and not healing properly. I had it and it stings like hell, and weeps if that sounds similar? They did an internal op to confirm the problem and fixed it at the same time. I didn't have a prolapse so not able to comment I'm afraid. Wishing her all the best x

yellowcurtains Sun 21-Jun-15 15:57:37

Hi, is anyone still around on here?
My question is - what does a prolapse feel like? i.e. how does one know if one has one?
Does the part of the uterus or bladder have nerves in, and is there pain with a prolapse?
I am worried about my DD at present, who says something odd has happened to her insides. She has a stingy pain inside her vagina.

Greenwichgirls Tue 02-Jun-15 23:45:27

We are a group of 3rd year midwifery students preparing for a presentation in a couple of weeks on the topic of -

'Comparing the incidence of obstetric fistulas in Sub Saharan Africa to the UK'.

We are trying to understand the rates of obstetric fistulas here in the UK, the background of what causes these fistulas, how they were repaired, the outcome and the support you received. In order to collect this information I have devised the attached survey which should only take a couple of minutes to complete.

I understand this is a difficult topic but your input would help us to educate other Midwifery students about the incidence and causes of obstetric fistulas in the UK. Unfortunately there was a limit of 10 questions in surveymonkey - so please add anything else you feel relevant after Question 10.

Thanks in advance and we appreciate your time.

pinguina16 Mon 01-Jun-15 21:49:12

Hi Elsie88,

I had 2 failed ventouse followed by episiotomy and forceps + massive PPH. I was faecal incontinent for 5/6 days (from day 6 till day 10/11 after birth) and experienced urgency (needing to go straight away) for 3 weeks maybe. And urgent for 4/5 months but much less urgent but not quite normal yet.

Anyway. I told MW on day 6. She referred me to women's health physio. Appointment took place on week 4. Diagnosis: bladder and uterus prolapse (couldn't walk 1/2 a mile for 3 months) and probable unrepaired 3d tear.

Rectal scan took place on month 3. At that time they confirmed 3d degree tear. However when I saw the colorectal surgeon at 6months, he said it was a 2d degree tear (still unrepaired though).

Fast forward 16 months (now), after doing intensive physio for around 6 months (at first, standard pelvic floor exercises 5/6 times a day [took an hour every day] then physio started changing exercises slightly and physio appointments every other week (from 3 to 6 months PP sometimes every 3/4 weeks)), I am 95% back to normal regarding controlling bowel movement. I can still get the odd wind I can't control and if/when I have diarrhea, it is more urgent than it used to be but I consciously squeeze to make sure I get to the toilet on time.

I last saw the colorectal surgeons a few weeks ago. Long term they don't know. They have older women who have not had children who have problems and they wouldn't know if a woman had PP issues but then was ok long term because these women don't come back. They told me that if I was going to have problems again, it would be in 10/15 years time and that I would need at least physio again. But they also stressed that I might never need to see them again. I have to add I won't be having anymore children (long list of reasons, top of the list: I can't manage one child! Never mind 2!). If I wanted another child, one colorectal surgeon pointed at ELCS and another one thought I could have another vaginal delivery, adding I had a 5% increase risk of a severe tear second time. My thoughts: just for the coccyx pain I suffered and still suffer (7 months in agony, 1 year without driving), no way I'd choose a vaginal delivery again.

Small note on prolapse. I can't jump nor run anymore (not even for a bus). I'm only saying this so you can measure where you are (prolapse can vary hugely).

I hope this is helpful. My advice: do pelvic floor exercises religiously and ask to see a woman's health physio.

passmethewineplease Tue 12-May-15 12:25:51

Just bumping this thread up...

I had my 3rd dc 6.5 months ago and occasionally I'm sure I pass wind out of my vagina. blush It isn't odourless which has lead me to worry.

Can anyone shed any light? Thanks in advance.

Motherpuffin Wed 11-Mar-15 23:24:08

I'm so sorry you're going through this, it really isn't fair. I remember being stuck at home and just wanting to be out and about and the best mum possible. Take it easy while they're investigating, and don't put too much pressure on yourself as its tiring waiting for appointments and taking in new information. I had granulation tissue removed internally as it was causing me a lot of pain, and everything downstairs refashioned! (lucky me smile) you will get better and the time you're spending now with your little one is really precious, so don't worry if you're not at the park every day, time at home is just as good. Hope all goes well x

Elsie88 Sat 07-Mar-15 20:35:14

Hi Motherpuffin,
Thanks so much for your reply. If you don't mind me asking, what ops did you have?
I'm feeling really anxious about everything and just confused - I had no idea that this could happen from giving birth! I go from feeling hopeful that this will go away to feeling absolute despair that I will be this way forever! Just wish I could get out and about and show my beautiful little boy off, it's not fair sad

Motherpuffin Fri 06-Mar-15 23:47:33

Elsie88 your post sounds very similar to my experience. I had a forceps delivery 16 months ago, and was told I had second degree internal tears and a 'large' episiotomy according to my midwife. I took a long time to heal down there and lost all control of wind as th episiotomy had disturbed my bum muscles, and sometimes it felt like it came out of the front (it just felt that way, apparently air gets trapped in after forceps deliverys and can take ages to come out!) I agree it is early days for you, but please be pushy at your 6 week check up, if you're still suffering asked to be referred. Some GPs are great, some are rubbish, so make sure you see a gynae specialist asap. Chances are you will be ok, and even if there is something to fix they will help you I promise. I've had an internal op and external op and am undergoing weekly physio and feel like a new person. I have been meaning to write here and thank you all. Reading your posts during very difficult times over the past year honestly got me through, in the run up to ops, illness and recovery. Anyone who hasn't gone through these types of experiences have no idea how isolating, lonely and heartbreaking it can be while Drs investigate such intimate things. So thank you. Xx

marzipanfiend Thu 05-Mar-15 22:56:16

Hi bexleymum - I have no other advice than go to the gp that's what they're there for! It doesn't sound normal to me - I had a minor operation for painful sex a year after birth and it sorted the problem. Also there
might be some useful info further back on the thread?

Bexleymum Thu 05-Mar-15 13:33:01

Hello I'm new to this thread, but I'm not sure who to talk about this with in rl.
I had my second dd 20 weeks ago. Very quick delivery 2.45 hours from first contraction to baby. No external tears but substantial internal tearing all stitched up with a local afterwards. My perineum was also very bruised. The healing process has been very slow. Had an infection at 10 weeks, all cleared up with antibiotics. It has all settled down, but sex is still very painful and I seem to get a sensation in my anus when pressing the vaginally side of my perineum if that makes sense. Sorry if this is tmi. Just wondered if this sounds familiar to anyone. I'm not in agony and don't want to waste my gps time if this is normal.
Thanks so much for reading this.

marzipanfiend Wed 04-Mar-15 21:23:08

Glad it helped a little and you have at least been offered hospital follow up (even if you do end up having to chase it up!). I suppose if it does turn out to be more serious, although it's pretty rubbish and feels awful right now, I'd be hopeful that there are ways to rectify it. I was really upset about my tear at first and it look a while to get my head around it, but now I don't even really think about it. When I did feel upset about it, a good cry then a cuddle with my ds usually helped! Take care.

Elsie88 Wed 04-Mar-15 20:49:39

Hi Marzipanfiend,
Thanks so much for your reply. I saw the health visitor last week and she said I wouldn't see her again until DS is 6 weeks old but to ring her if I need to.
The hospital also said that I would have an appt with the obstetric consultant after 6 weeks although have yet to hear anything about that.
I think my biggest worry is like you mentioned that there may be a more serious tear that has been missed because they can't give me any other explanation as to why this is happening sad
Thanks for replying, it's nice to know that someone is listening smile

marzipanfiend Wed 04-Mar-15 20:30:27

Also it might help to know that where I live even if you have a 3/4 tear, they leave you for three months before they follow up to see if symptoms have settled. I suppose your concern would be a missed 3/4 tear or other problem.

marzipanfiend Wed 04-Mar-15 20:27:12

Hi elsie88,
Sorry you're feeling lost..that doesn't sound like you've been listened to at all. 16 days is very very early so try not to worry. I had a bad tear and have hardly any symptoms over a year on. Have you been transferred from the midwife to the health visitor yet? One of them or your GP really should be able to give you sone advice. It may well be to wait and see but at least they might give you an idea of when you could be referred back to the gynae outpatients dept. My advice would be to keep going back (hopefully you won't have to) until they realise it is having a serious impact on your every day functioning. Do try not to worry, and I'm sure other mumsnetters will be along soon to help you too.

Elsie88 Wed 04-Mar-15 20:00:34

Hope it's ok that I join in the conversation - had my little boy 16 days ago - had forceps and an episiotimy. Was told that it was a second degree tear but have suffered with faecal urgency and incontinence to gas every day since his birth. Also when I try to hold in my gas, I feel it come out through my vagina blush
I feel as though something has clearly gone badly wrong but was discharged from hospital and told I had a second degree tear and they had no idea why this has happened hmm
Feeling quite lost and very worried right now

cravingcake Thu 05-Feb-15 18:38:15

Regarding pain relief afterwards, they will give you a suppository at the end of the elcs (you won't feel anything as you will still be numb) and this will work for quite a number of hours. You will also be nill by mouth from midnight the night before (if elcs is in morning) so there's not a lot in your system. I was told I couldn't take codeine as I was breastfeeding - but it was fine apparently for me to take as required for 3 weeks prior to the birth hmm so it was just paracetamol and ibuprofen that I took. The first couple of days I did have oramorph a couple of times to help with the pain. Watch your diet and try to include some fried fruit if you are starting to get worried.

seaoflove Thu 05-Feb-15 14:11:57

Yes, it's opiates which are constipating, not that I would refuse them if I needed them. I'm not sure the first few hours after surgery would be much fun on ibuprofen or paracetamol. I'm hoping I can just counteract any ill effects with plenty of Laxido afterwards. Goodness knows how much, I get through enough due to pregnancy constipation as it is!

As for the urgency, I don't know whether it's tear related, or too-much-Laxido related. I did have an anal ultrasound at 12 weeks postpartum, and the muscles obviously weren't properly healed then. No idea whether things are properly healed and functioning now (nearly 3.5 years later). I wish I knew!

Bobsmyaunty Thu 05-Feb-15 13:29:17

oh and I just wondered, was it that tear which caused your urgency problems? I still don't really know the route cause of mine.

Although apparently the MW's did something called a uterus compression when I heamoraged (sorry about the sp.) and that can have knock on effects. Didn't know that until yesterday! Ah how we live and learn.

Bobsmyaunty Thu 05-Feb-15 13:27:42

seaoflove I wonder if they hear that a lot! It seems so much can go wrong in a vaginal birth - with really dire consequences.

You're due in May aren't you? Mine elcs should be around the 3rd week of March so I'll try to remember to log on here and let you know how it went and also how/if I managed to not get constipated from the drugs. I'm going to do a bit of research and I have spoken to a few people that said paracetemol and ibuprofen was ok from about day 3... as I think it's the codeine which really blocks you. And obv I will never let any iron tablets come near my face unless I'm at deaths door!

If you like I can send you my email address so that if I DO forget you can email me and prompt me. I've found this group so helpful that absolutely any useful information I can impart I will!

seaoflove Wed 04-Feb-15 22:19:10

I have thought about it a bit more and agree that a controlled surgery risk is much more preferable to unknown vaginal birth risk. I also just don't think I could push - every fibre in my being says NO to pushing just going to the loo!

That is pretty much, word for word, what I said to the MW at my booking appointment!

Bobsmyaunty Wed 04-Feb-15 21:15:41

Thank you so much for all you replied. And very pleased to hear your elcs went well craving cake.

I have thought about it a bit more and agree that a controlled surgery risk is much more preferable to unknown vaginal birth risk. I also just don't think I could push - every fibre in my being says NO to pushing just going to the loo!

Do you know if there are any pain relief drugs which are better for avoiding constipation? I do have to be careful to avoid this anyway and was planning on taking a laxido a day in the 3 day lead up and then 2 a day post surgery for a week or so....?

God - I just want to get out of this second pregnancy more or less intact and then give my body some tlc for the rest of it's life!!

Will definitely feedback to the group too to let everyone know how it went to help inform any future choices.

cravingcake Wed 04-Feb-15 19:03:12

Hi Bob , yes, I have been through exactly what you have. I had forceps delivery with my DS just over 3 years ago which resulted in a 4th degree tear (we had shoulder dystocia as well). I had post natal depression and post traumatic stress disorder and it took a long time for me to get over the birth. My DD was born by elcs a year ago and it was by comparison wonderful! The best decision ever, there was no way I was going to give birth 'naturally' again. I unfortunately had a prolapse after my DS and the weight of my second pregnancy made this worse. I also suffered with poo smearing type incontinence during those last weeks of pregnancy, again it was the weight and pressure of baby and this disappeared within a couple of weeks after birth.

After my DD was born it was such a relief, it was like this is what a normal birth is supposed to be like. I can honestly say for someone having been through the most traumatic type of birth an elcs is the easy option, it was a walk in the park. Yes it was hard and painful at times and you will get all the lectures from people saying it's not easy and major surgery and there is risk of infection etc but I'd rather have controlled planned surgery than a major tear and lifelong incontinence.

I had an anal fissure after the elcs but it didn't take too long to go - lots of healthy, sensible food and meals, drinking lots of water, lactulose when needed etc.

If you have any specific questions please do ask.

marzipanfiend Wed 04-Feb-15 17:21:35

hi bob - I haven't been in your position yet but will be considering elcs when we get round to no.2 after 4th degree tear with ds1. I was thrown by sth a consultant said a few weeks ago - I was at my appointment finally being discharged 15 months after birth (surgery to remove scar tissue at entrance to vagina and investigations into anal sphincter muscles - mostly all fine now) and at the appointment the consultant said, oh well i d be happy for you to have a natural birth next time then we could do any repairs afterwards if needed!! This is after EVERY single person before her telling me on no account to have a natural birth! I still fully intend to have an elcs but would be very grateful if you could come back on here and let us know what you decide and how it goes. I hope you manage to find some people one step ahead to tell you how they got on.

seaoflove Wed 04-Feb-15 12:58:07

Hi Bob

I had a 3b tear after having my first child in 2011, and am opting for ELCS for my second due in May. I didn't have too much trouble convincing the consultant, although he did completely dismiss my fears of tearing again (unlikely, apparently) and of worsening bowel symptoms even if I had a textbook vaginal birth. So he agree to it on mental health grounds.

I'm also a SAHM and manage any of bowel urgency simply by being home a lot! I also concerned about constipation post operatively (because I suffer badly from it anyway) but I'm hoping that as long as I get my usual dose of Movicol/Laxido (I'll bring some from home if I have to) and don't have too many constipating painkillers I should be OK.

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