another windoze to mac person...

[Theas18]

Terribly tempted to get a mac. Old ( horrid) win 8 laptop has been stolen by eldest with my encouragement....and spirited away to uni.

In a dilemma here...

DH dilemma " you don't actually NEED a nearly 1K laptop for what you do".....

Me....

is 11inch too small, or cute and very portable?

Also tell me about icloud- can I for instance rip CDs and store them there?

And the Word compatability thing could be and issue for work documents...

I actually mostly use the ipad at home, however there are some websites I can't use with it that are important.

Hmmmm

[MuswellHillDad]

Did the switch and never looked back. Microsoft office works very well on Mac and is totally compatible.

Apple PCs costs more, but, in my experience, last better (not true of iPhones though).

However, don't buy one full price. First off, go to the refurbished section of the Apple store. I have bought 2 laptops and an iMac from there and they are indistibguishable from new. MacMini is 6 years old+ and never crashed. iMac and Macbook Pro 13" over 3 years old and both perfect.

My brother buys his Apple stuff on eBay. He get's models that are 1-3 years old and makes sure that the battery can be replaced with a new one when it can't hold a charge. Pays considerably less and gets good machines. Preferably buy from someone you can collect from and who has a great reputation score.

11 inch is great but too small to continually work on. However, you can add in bluetooth keyboard, mouse and add a cheapish (HDMI) monitor/TV and plug it in. That way you have full size working setup at home, and then a great portable machine away from home.

That said, I find working on the 13 inch laptop pretty comfortable for a few hours at a time. I switch to the iMac if I'm going to be on it all day.

store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

[MuswellHillDad]

PS - you would rip your CDs to iTunes on the Mac. I then sync the music to my iPhone (or iPad in your case). I only use iCloud to backup what's on the iPhone (iPad in your case).

[MrsPnut]

And you can buy microsoft office for macs, it's much better than the newer version for windows.

I use a Mac at home and hate having to use a microsoft laptop for work.

[PedroYoniLikesCrisps]

Agggh no. Don't do it. Macs are absolutely horrible to use. They are seriously counter intuitive unless you've been using them all your life, they're hideously over priced and when they go wrong you can't fix them yourself which gets very expensive.

Windows 8 might not be that popular (although I actually quite like it personally) but the 8.1 update has fixed a lot of the major gripes. And let's face it, Microsoft aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Apple on the other hand are losing market share in pretty much every market they are involved in.

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

I agree, we switched three years ago and wish we hadn't bothered, I find it endlessly frustrating and much prefer my work Windows PC.

[NetworkGuy]

On the fence - I have a number of used (I've never bought new) Apple systems (G3, G4, eMac, and 5 x iMac - mostly using the iMacs now, to be honest) but also have a pile of Windows machines (XP x 8+, Win 7 x 3 and a few Vista). I've a couple of Tosh laptops with HDMI connectors for the 42" and 40" TVs, for NowTV, DVDs etc.

Loads more (free) software (in my view) for Windows, and more useful tools (for work) on Windows, but there are pros and cons with both systems. I see few areas where one is "head and shoulders" better than the other, when comparing Windows laptop/desktop against iMac.

Re music, I'd rip CDs on Windows and make MP3s which can be transferred to anything, whereas importing to iTunes may be convenient for some, but not so good if you used (for example) an Android mobile, whereas MP3s would be simply copied to phone storage / microSD card and playable.

If you are already (or going) iPhone / iPad and happy to pay the higher (generally) prices for that choice, then fine.

[WhenWhyWhere]

I am on the fence with this too. We are now an entirely Apple household IMac, MacbookPro, iPads, iPhones and iPods . I am not convinced about the user friendliness of the iMac. It depends what you have used before and how techy you are. I was a bit about how hard I found the iMac to use.

If you make the change you should be prepared to put some work into it. I thought I would be able to turn it on and just instinctively know how to use it . However, my DDs use their MacBook Pros effortlessly.

I love the shiny'ness of my iMac though . It's so, so shiny

....and I love the fact that in all the combined years of use of Apple products in my house not one has gone wrong ever.

[PedroYoniLikesCrisps]

It depends what you have used before and how techy you are.

Agreed. Whenever I pick up an Apple device I find it completely unusable. This is for two reasons, 1. I haven't used them from birth and 2. I actually know stuff about technology.

....and I love the fact that in all the combined years of use of Apple products in my house not one has gone wrong ever.

Since the mid 90s I've owned numerous Windows PCs numerous Nokia phones and numerous Android devices. Not a single one ever broke. Ever. On the flip side I hear people moaning about their iPhones having to go back for repair all the time. So I guess some people just have different experiences. I wouldn't say Apple were any more reliable.

[niceguy2]

I don't think user friendliness is any better on the mac than Windows. Arguably for a non-technical person it's going to be even more frustrating making the switch.

But where mac's do excel are the fact they need very little looking after. They just work day after day. Plus they use quality components so they tend to last a lot longer. I'm still happy with my 2010 imac nearly 4 years on whereas with a PC, I'd have upgraded it every year or so.

Yes you pay more initially but like I said, you get top of the range components in a beautifully designed package that you can later sell for a much better residual value than a normal PC/laptop.

[Southeastdweller]

Hardly anyone needs computer that costs a grand. He's right. But as you can afford it, get one - they're quick, look lovely, hold their value well, and very user friendly. My days of using archaic fugly Windoze pc's are over with.

I've tried to like the 11" models but they're too small for me. 13" one only slightly less portable. Perhaps you could make some trips to your nearest Apple store and test some out.

[PedroYoniLikesCrisps]

with a PC, I'd have upgraded it every year or so

Because you can. Bet you'd have upgraded the Mac if you could, but you can't. So if it breaks you have to buy a new one. Genius Apple marketing.

[NetworkGuy]

I'd have upgraded it every year or so

Yes, I picked up on that too... I've a background in electronics and IT, so in theory, I should consider "upgrading" at intervals, but there's really no need, as you can buy a s/h Windows PC on Ebay for anything from 50 to 200 quid (depending on what you're after) which could be a cheaper option for many (esp if you sell the old PC, though I tend to 'collect' them - had to get rid of around a dozen when I moved in 2011).

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

My Windows laptop bought around the same time (3 years ago) as our Imac has been just as reliable and still does everything I want it to, it's a bit slower to boot up and it doesn't look as nice but otherwise I like it much better.

After a great deal of initial difficulty getting used to it I must admit I do now like Iphoto. It was a steep learning curve though.

I just get the feeling that I am in control with Windows, whereas with the Mac you do it the Apple way, there seem to be far fewer options for doing things, file management is a particular bugbear of mine. Also the version of Word for Mac that we have (newer ones might be better) is shite compared to Word for Windows.

[MuswellHillDad]

you'd have upgraded the Mac if you could, but you can't

I've installed memory cards and a new SSD into a relatives Macbook and it was pretty easy. Not sure why upgrading a mac would be considered harder than a PC. No special tools required and youtube teaches you everything you need to know.

[PedroYoniLikesCrisps]

I've installed memory cards and a new SSD into a relatives Macbook and it was pretty easy.

That's pretty much all you can do though. You can't go sticking a high end graphics card in, for example. It's Apple's way of making its customers push the limits of their budgets to buy the best they possibly can at the time.

[MuswellHillDad]

For most purposes people want more storage, more speed and quicker startup time. All done with memory and SSD.

I'll acknowledge that if you're a games player needing a "sick" graphics card, you'll be using a PC anyway.

[12thmonkey]

I love these debates. To Mac or not to Mac. ..

A lot of it does come down to preference, but when people say i hate mac , hate pc this is really it , just preference. There are some truths that should be taken into account.

Mac's will hold value fact. If you buy a pc / laptop and 5 years later put it on ebay you may if you are lucky get small percentage back, but unlikely. You do the same with a mac and you will still get around a 700-1000 back. Simple as that, they are built with more superior parts and manufacturing process.

The Mac OS is designed to give you everything you need , straight out the box. no messing with drivers, installers , demo software installing windows. You open the box turn it on and you are ready to go. A pc will take much much longer, depending on the version you buy.

A Mac is built on Unix and runs C and objectiveC for its native apps. There is no registry. Applications run as stand alone programs. No installing, and to uninstall you move them to the bin, done. A pc requires much installation and de-instillation processing and can cause issues to existing applications. This simply does not happen with Mac. The latest OS on Mac is free and all future upgrades will mostly likely be free also.

I'm a huge Mac fan. I'm a professional programmer, C, ObjC, Unix , Java and my main income if from Database programming. I use windows for work simply because the hardware is more affordable for employers. If the thought has crossed your mind to go Mac, go for it. There is nothing you cannot do with a Mac that you can do on a pc and more.

[PedroYoniLikesCrisps]

There is nothing you cannot do with a Mac that you can do on a pc and more.

That's simply not true. Right clicking the mouse would be my first argument! (Ok so a little tongue in cheek but the level of customisation available on a Mac is nowhere near and the right mouse button is kind of a metaphor for having options!)

I don't hate Macs per se, but I do hate Apple. They are a despicable example of a company. Their tax dodging financial structure has robbed the US alone out of billions of dollars and paved the way for other companies to follow suit. They brick wall their projects internally and make threats against their own staff to avoid leaks. Their marketing is heavily misleading at best and outright lying at worst. Their response to PR issues is slow and insulting (antenna gate anyone?). And their products are usually old technology wrapped in shiny boxes and sold as innovation.

I would never buy from them on those reasons alone even if I was considering a Mac. Whether you buy a computer or a tablet or a smart phone, you have to do everything Apple's way. No thanks. It's not just preference it's principle.

[12thmonkey]

That's simply not true. Right clicking the mouse would be my first argument! (Ok so a little tongue in cheek but the level of customisation available on a Mac is nowhere near and the right mouse button is kind of a metaphor for having options!)

@Pedro.. You can right click with a Mac track pad. Tap it with two fingers. Or you can use a standard mouse that you would use on a windows machine and right click there. I can't see what 'level of customisation' you would need on either machine.

I don't hate Macs per se, but I do hate .... They are a despicable example of a company. Their tax dodging financial structure has robbed the US alone out of billions of dollars and paved the way for other companies to follow suit. They brick wall their projects internally and make threats against their own staff to avoid leaks. Their marketing is heavily misleading at best and outright lying at worst. Their response to PR issues is slow and insulting (antenna gate anyone?). And their products are usually old technology wrapped in shiny boxes and sold as innovation.

** Change Apple and replace with any company you can think of. .. Google, Amazon, Costa, Starbuck, McDonalds, Tesco, Sainsburys... You shop at any of those or use their products ?? You really have no chance if thats how your approach purchasing anything. Apple are so high profile but it doesn't make them the only ones guilty.

I would never buy from them on those reasons alone even if I was considering a Mac. Whether you buy a computer or a tablet or a smart phone, you have to do everything Apple's way. No thanks. It's not just preference it's principle.

Corporately many companies envy Apple with this. The very fact that with Apple products you ahve to use iTunes or the [Mac]App store. It locks you in. Google have tried with the Playstore, amazon with theirs and microsoft with the windows app store, but no one does it better than apple. So many people see this as a bad thing. Basically not being able to pirate / share music between apple devices being the biggest bug bare. But the restriction guarantees a level of quality of service you cannot get in many other places. Welcome to the walled garden as they say.

[Alwayscheerful]

We started with an iMac, we fell in love, a mac laptop, two iPhones and an iPad followed to complete our family.

Apple all the way here.

[niceguy2]

I think the whole PC or mac argument is a bit pointless.

Apple have made a fortune selling high end gear that looks good and is simple to use. That's all the vast majority of people care about.

Whether or not you can right click, the OS is based on Unix or whether or not it was built by chinese pygmies is irrelevant.

To most people it just works.....that's it.

[Alwayscheerful]

I agree niceguy. I must say, I was pleased to do away with control, alt delete.

[FunkyBoldRibena]

Macs just work.
The people I know that don't like them mainly don't like them because they try and use them as if they were not macs.

I have to use Windoze at work and college and they suck.

[PedroYoniLikesCrisps]

Change Apple and replace with any company you can think of. .. Google, Amazon, Costa, Starbuck, McDonalds, Tesco, Sainsburys...

Apple's model is what everyone else has been basing their own on. It's Apple's fault. And it's only one of many issues I have with them.

Google have tried with the Playstore

No they haven't. Android has always been open to 3rd party stores. You get more security generally with Play but Google have never tried to lock you in.

Amazon is a little different. I don't like the way Kindle tablets lock you to the Amazon store. But with the ereaders it's not so bad as I always bought all my books from Amazon anyway so it doesn't make much difference. Plus Amazon have THE best customer service I've ever experienced.

But all this doesn't stop Apple from being a threatening, lying, pathetic and desperate company. If their model was sooo great, everyone would be doing it. It really wouldn't be that difficult to replicate. They also have a religious captivating to their followers which means that their wonderfulness simply cannot be questioned. It's like listening to bunch of extremist nuts sometimes and they have no idea they've been roped in by the dubious advertising.

[NetworkGuy]

the restriction guarantees a level of quality of service you cannot get in many other places.

Actually, I'm not so sure. The iTunes store, for example, doesn't, as a matter of course, allow you to re-download items you have bought, for example if your hard drive has crashed. They assume (fairly reasonable, but for those who use a Mac, 'cos it "just works", not always aware of things) that the user will make a backup on another device (perhaps the "Time Capsule" will be recommended, for additional Apple profits)...

One restriction, that of not having a microSD reader in their devices, must be a major pain. I don't buy music online, but will 'rip' tracks from CD into MP3 format. That means my cheap + cheerful player costing all of a tenner, can play such tracks as I have stored on it.

With mobile phones, however, I am easily able to simply plug in an 8 GB microSD card with music selection 'A' and another day, plug in selection 'B' - OK, it's a minor difference in one way, but major compared with having to buy a replacement device (at a possibly inflated price, comparing the price of storage bought in bulk, with what Apple sells the additional storage for).

I use iTunes, but mostly to download podcasts, and if I was buying a device such as an iPhone, I think I'd be dumbfounded if I had to have some computer (with iTunes) to plug into, before I could start using it. (I'm going on history, here, and don't know if that's still true, but a major disincentive in my view... Why should I need a computer if I'm just buying a mobile phone ?

I'm not going to try to defend Apple from some who attack them - this is being written on an (old) iMac, after all, and the demo version of 'DEFCON' runs on it, so I'm happy enough (though DEFON does not run on 3 other iMacs I own, and there's a fair bit of software that won't run on older Mac kit)