How might I earn £1000 a month working from home?

(386 Posts)
Mumblepot26 Sun 12-Aug-12 08:16:15

Hello, i wondered if any of you had any ideas about how I coud earn £1000 a month working from home?

I have spent 20 yrs working in the health service as a nurse then counsellor, just gone back after second lot of mat leave and realised I am done with the nhs, after child care I bring in £1000 a month, so I figure if I can earn this at home, I will be able to stay at home until kids in school. Any ideas ladies? (Working as private counsellor not an option at the moment as we don't have enough space)

BombasticAghast Sun 12-Aug-12 08:17:27

What a bout a tutor preparing students for their exams? You go to their houses to do it.

GOogle local tutoring services and go from there.

Dolallytats Sun 12-Aug-12 08:20:14

Is there a way you could offer telephone/e-mail counselling. I have seen it offered, but don't know how you would get into doing that. Might take a little time to build it up too.

I would love to get a 'work from home' position too. I am agoraphobic and have no chance of getting to a workplace at the moment and even something like Avon is an impossibility!!

Good luck.

NickNacks Sun 12-Aug-12 08:21:38

I'm a childminder, Would you like to do that?

Xenia Sun 12-Aug-12 08:51:10

Earn it a day. It's much more fun. Just pick work which has a high hourly rate or sell large volumes of something.

PessimisticMissPiggy Sun 12-Aug-12 08:58:22

Xenia we know that you earn megabucks but not everyone wants to or has the capabilities to be a top professional.

OP do you have the capacity to re-train?

LaTrucha Sun 12-Aug-12 09:06:37

Watching with interest.

Other ideas I've had are book keeping and then all the traditionally male self-employed things like plumbing. It takes time to retrain though.

fraggly Sun 12-Aug-12 09:06:59

Xenia, can I ask what you do please. Just a tad nosey!

LaTrucha Sun 12-Aug-12 09:16:12

Yes. That was a bit of a tease!

Xenia Sun 12-Aug-12 11:27:04

Loads of consultants charge £1k a day. IT (not my area) for a day. Management consulting. Speaking services. etc etc

As I wrote that earlier today it was about 8.50 on a Sunday morning and I'd just made £400 on updating a bit of a book. So the question is what is so special about me that I earn that in just over an hour compared with all these mumsnetters strugggling to find a job on £6 an hour? Are we encouraging our daughters into very very low paid work and jobs when they should be aiming to go into the City or to become surgeons or whatever and what leads some women to earn very little. Is it bad schools, bad encouragement by family, morality/religion, culture which says girls serve and are housewives and men earn, sexism, is it as simple as if your IQ is Xenia level and exam results that are similar to mine then you earn more? Is it looks, weight, class, accent? Fascinating subjects. Do you only earn what you aim for?

So if I decided at 10 to buy an island which I bought in 2005 and seem to think you can get most of what you set your mind to if you work very very hard is that one reason or was I just very very lucky in life?

I don't want to say what I do but going back to earlier this morning I suppose the thing I was doing few people in the UK know enough to do it and many would spend 2 days on it as they are not as on the ball abouti t as I am and don't haev it embedded in heir brain, amongst others who could many could not be bothered or do not deliver on time. I think I have been utterly reliable for work and indeed child responsibilities for 28 years so that helps. Persistence - i think i got the start of that work by writing to 20 companies. I would say 80% of what I try and work I bid for fails but I am such an optimist I always assume things will go well and the other 20% often do work out.

If you were the only person in the UK who had detailed knowledge of gold reserves in Russia or something you are likely to be more in demand than if like just about every other resident of the UK you offer cleaning services.

LaTrucha Sun 12-Aug-12 13:49:44

Your particular line of work seems to be about knowing something specific a market needs. My family have worked in and around books for two generations and I don't know of anything that would earn that. In my background (education), I don't know of anything that would earn that.

However, I do agree that I think people are leaving school with no idea of jobs. I felt and feel very ill-prepared by my education and family.

I am facing a situation where it is unlikely I can go back to what I had, and would be best all round for me to work from home. I got extremely fed up thinking of things that wommen tend to do in my situation (childminding, cleaning) as they are very low earning (and I wasn't before), which is why I was thinking of the male equivalents, which are better earning.

Mumblepot26 Sun 12-Aug-12 16:40:12

Thank you for these responses ladies, I think I will investigate the telephone/email counselling service. Childminding too crossed my mind. Xenia, I love your positivity, I reckon this has been a major factor in your financial success. Yes I aggree that still in this day and age, many women do not set their sites high enough. However I think that other factors also come in to play here I.e. the fact that the responsibility for child care still falls on women, so we feel pressured to choose more vocational work, which often fits round childcare more easily. Also our society has a warped view of what work is of most monetary value. If I had my way, childminders, who are nurturing the minds of the next generation, would earn the mega bucks rather than the bankers, who with all due respect (and ofcourse we need them too) essentially just move money around.

Snog Sun 12-Aug-12 16:46:38

If you have kids to look after, when could you actually work as this will affect what you can do?

Snog Sun 12-Aug-12 16:48:10

Rent a room?
Rent out your driveway?

ColourMeWithChaos Sun 12-Aug-12 16:49:38

Could you go into marking exams/coursework?

One of my friends was a sexual health nurse but gave up after having her DC and now marks Health and Social Care exams for an exam board and marks coursework for a distance learning college.

motherinferior Sun 12-Aug-12 16:51:48

If you're going to work, you'll need childcare.

JuliaScurr Sun 12-Aug-12 16:53:25

OP have you cnsidered electrcian?
Not physcally demanding, flexible hours if self employed
A friend was a plumber, she got on ok

cupcake78 Sun 12-Aug-12 16:54:44

Most telephone and email counselling services jobs are filled by volunteers or students. Good luck

naturalbaby Sun 12-Aug-12 17:03:44

It's amazing how Xenia can turn almost any post into a soap box to air her views on women in the city and how we're failing our daughters.

Xenia, if I send you my CV will you tell me what to do with my life to earn squillions please?

donnie Sun 12-Aug-12 17:30:06

Xenia are you on the game? If so where is
Your pitch?

CailinDana Sun 12-Aug-12 17:41:04

Could you look into writing/editing for medical magazines? I edit a magazine from home, it's only a small publication and it doesn't bring in much money (much less than 1000 a month) but once my second DC (currently baking) is a bit older I plan to capitalize on my current experience and do some freelance work for some other small publications. Relatively easy work for pretty good pay.

mrsmopsmissingmojo Sun 12-Aug-12 17:46:35

If you can sew you're never without a self employed job wink

happybubblebrain Sun 12-Aug-12 18:01:18

Make something and sell it.
Buy something and sell it for more.

Sorry, I have no ideas, which is why I do a desk job.

I think Xenia should write a book "An Idiot's Guide to Making £1,000 a Day". Then all the women of the UK can be mega rich. In theory.

Snog Sun 12-Aug-12 18:06:35

Donnie not funny and not called for re Xenia imo

DolomitesDonkey Sun 12-Aug-12 18:18:21

Xenia's positivity has a lot to do with it - look where she says she gets rejected for 80% of the work she bids for. That's right, 4 out of 5 potential clients/employers tell her they're not interested. But instead of whining on mumsnet about how there are no opportunities, she goes out and talks to 5 more people.

It's much easier to bleat about it not being fair than to get off your GFA and do something.

(This is not aimed at OP!).

Xenia Sun 12-Aug-12 19:10:25

On the game? I think I am one of the few women in the UK who paid lots of money to a man on divorce so I'm obviously in the wrong game.
I also have 100% record of failure to get non exec board posts and 100% failure record of bidding for Government work.

In fact most successful people have heaps of failures but keep going.

Here is an example of taking risk or taking something on. An editor of a journal did not want to take it over even though it is quite a big source of his income and the publisher could have folded it. The editorial company he was contracted to did not want to take it on. I was taking another 3 on so I was offered this one . Why woudl no one take it on? It was like free money. I'm sitting here this afternoon invoicing it. I cannot understand why they would not do. I suppose they might be too busy or want lots of free time and a low income or think they might have to run it at a loss.

We are now looking at 2 or 3 of the older children buying their first places and getting back into buy to letting which I did in my late 20s/early 30s. now in the early 90s we sold both flats for 50% less than we paid for them - another of my heroic failures. Has anyone else done so badly at property ... laughing as I type... but we put what was left of the money into this house, we';d had years of not much spare money as every penny went into paying back those loans so that when we did sell them the flats were not mortgaged and then put it all into this place which rose quite a lot in value.

i suppose a key thing for me is spreading or risk and lots of different sources of income which makes things less risky.

Another example bought shares, big large company portfolio £100k, managed by me... when we came to value them in 2003 down to £40k... so that shows how bad I am at stock market investment. Gosh this really is summing up my failures, isn't it? What else? I was going to add my island was unsaleable but someone just made an offer but I'm not sure I want to sell it. Then there was a the years with not a penny of savings, over drawn and £1.3m of debt, that was not really that much fun.

Spreading risk does however protect you to an extent and also it gives variety to a working life and these kinds of portfolio careers do suit women pretty well as they often if they are with a man who does not do as much as they do at home which they should never tolerate - sexist pigs are not the men to marry - then they can fit children around it too.

I must have had other failures too. I wasn't promoted where I used to work although now I regard that as a blessing as it made me to off to work for myself. Oh filming - we got £10k for a big TV thing filmed here 10 years ago. Thought wow - won't have to work again... we'll have a lot of thing - not a single bit since, except half a day radio play - why would the BBC come out to this house to record a radio play rather than do it in situ? So that lucrative side line also came to nought...

Xenia Sun 12-Aug-12 19:22:12

Quite a lot of women do earn £1000 a day and I fear that girls who aren't brought up in that kind of world then have lower expectations which is a huge pity. I got a book called What People earn from the public library in the NE in the 70s along with all the wonderful books on feminism which came out in those days - it was a great time to be around as a woman. That was helpful.

We should try to list the £1k a day women's careers to help others. SO I suppos I am saying try to go for work where you make in an hour the minimum wage which I think in terms of what I charge at I just about do.
£1k a day is £250k a year or so unless you want to take 3 months holiday a year rather than a more normal 2 - 4 weeks. As 50% goes in tax NI roughly to pay the benefits claimants those of us who work hard support and you get no tax credits that is about £125k net a year if we are assuming this mythical woman earns £250k profit - let us assume she has few expenses, no stupid expensive office and pretentious PA to pay ands he hasn't been conned into buying expensive web services and software. So her £125k net is about £2400 a month.

Let me think of a list... randomly as I'm working and 4 of the children are in...

1. Lots of consultatns, ex McKinsey, NHS management self employed consultants, lots of companies with whom I work have people working with them whom you think are employees but in fact go in there to do things for them. Those things might be general company turn around or advice, cost savings people.

2. IT contractors in particular.

3. Private sector doctors and dentists. May be some therapists. I have always thought Harley Street weight loss person probably makes a lot of money -there is a lot of money in fat women. Old age too is a huge growth market. I have done work with a few dentists recently who own a good few practices. Anything with a pyramid of people under you and you buy and they work for you. Certaily all the Asian parents around here wanting their chdilren to be a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant, a dentist or a pharmacist have just the right idea. Even if they go into business after if you get a core rare and hard to achieve professional start you are half the way there. They are sensible parents.

4. If you read the 4 hour day book you will see how he took a decision to work a few hours a day but make much more money and thatw as selling products on line like muscle building powders - huge mark up. Popcorn is another product which sels in cinemas at something like 1000 x what you pay for it.

I've got to get back to work. loads of mumsnetters haev husbands on £1k a day so I am sure those richer housewives can add what their husband does. If you read the Hakim books (and she has a new one out now) she writes about the way as women we have two ways to get money - one is like men - earning it; the second is in some ways easier - marrying someone rich. I heard on radio 4 yesterday about a woman in the |UKin 1500 who was known as the "black widow" - born into royalty but no money, she married 3 men eacho f whom died in a year or two. At 26 she had inherited three fortunes. However to attract rich men you may need to be very pretty, good at psychology, have the right sized breasts, tolerant (perhaps of his paunch and baldness ugh...) perhaps these days also have the right university degree/IQ/career and also be fertile and probably also not fat ([erhaps that's first on the list and over 50% of british people are overweight now so it's getting easier and easier to stand out just by being 8 - 9 stone - eating less costs nothing of course) and perhaps have the right accent/class - anyone can go on youtube and practise changing their accent to fit in with whatever man they are after.

Mumblepot26 Sun 12-Aug-12 19:47:06

No offence taken.

Mumblepot26 Sun 12-Aug-12 19:48:12

Editing yup a possibility, thank you for your ideas

Mumblepot26 Sun 12-Aug-12 19:50:04

Editing yup a possibility, thank you for your ideas ladies

ScottOfTheArseAntics Sun 12-Aug-12 20:08:06

Could you offer consultancy services of any shape/form? Perhas in healthcare? Who might want/benefit from your knowledge and experience and can pay or it?

I charge £650 a day for consultancy in my field and that's not much compared to others who do what I do. I work from home but do have to travel occasionally.

Xenia, interesting post, thanks for sharing.

propercharlie Sun 12-Aug-12 20:57:28

Love your posts on this thread Zenia.

I am 27 and can earn up to c£2500 per day. Was home by 11am on Friday havent earnt £1200 that morning. And that is having qualified at 25 and had a bout of mat leave thrown in in the last 2 years!

I think (having read some of your previous posts and posts of other members about you) we may be in the same sort of area, but not 100% sure.

LaTrucha Sun 12-Aug-12 21:10:41

Qualified in what?

propercharlie Sun 12-Aug-12 21:19:49

Legal field - sorry, correction, I qualified at 24.

LaTrucha Sun 12-Aug-12 21:26:25


DolomitesDonkey Mon 13-Aug-12 09:41:35

That's very candid (and funny!) of you Xenia. It again reiterates that when life knocks you down, you get up and try again.

I have this stuck to my office wall:
"You must always have a short-term source of income that pays the bills, two medium-term projects that supplement the income, and one long-term project that's a year away from fruition. Always."

I'm just starting out on this new way of life but damnit I'll give it a good shot. I too have a 100% failure rate with government contracts - but will still be submitting 2 tenders over the next few weeks.

naturalbaby Mon 13-Aug-12 11:17:27

Xenia's post is spot in, if you're qualified or knowledgeable enough in a particular field. Something many of us aren't without retraining.

encyclogirl Mon 13-Aug-12 11:57:07

Xenia, I love your posts on this topic. I'm very interested it buying the 4 hour a day book. Can you tell me who the author is?

ggirl Mon 13-Aug-12 12:11:37

Interesting bit on womens hour this am about how the average woman does not think she is worhty of a high salary.
Job advertised at £50,000 had no women applicants , same job advertised at £30,000 had loads of women applicants...hmm

We as women still generally think we should be spending more of our time in the home not earning than working to earn decent amts of money .

bacon Mon 13-Aug-12 12:49:05

Back to OP. Agree with previous comment you still need childcare even if you work from home and if you read all previous posts many of us have to pay for nursery as it is not feasible to earn and have a child in tow. When older - say 2 years its a nightmare. Once you are using the telephone you must have peace.

I'm sorry far to many women think that working from home is a good way of making money at £1000 per month is a wonderful figure. You havent stated if you have other children and you still have to do school runs, food, housework and other chores.

You end up doing loads at night and weekends too so its dreamy to think its a easier option. If you were earning such a great salary with all the amazing perks (sick pay, hols, pension etc) you get while being employed you can forget it when self employed.

Being self employed is tough and dont forget you need to take overheads out of earnings, £1k would be your clear drawings.

Xenia Mon 13-Aug-12 15:59:04

4 hour working week book is not that great - rather American. I read it on holiday but he is unliek me and the other high earner on the thread devoid of any special qualifications and just sold stuff on line and wrote a book so in some ways an even better example than those of us who have passed a lot of difficult exams in a niche field which most people would fail etc..

I do think women should aim high and it's true as quoted above that many women think they aren't up to much and don't price high enough. Basicallly copy high paid men in most sectors and you can't go too far wrong (including delegating all dull as ditcherwater stuff like cleaning the loo which men seem to find easier than women usualyl because they marry some low earning housewife who ends up being his own personal loo scrubber)

BonnieBumble Mon 13-Aug-12 18:22:50

Xenia whilst I don't agree with everything that you say you do talk a lot of sense when it comes to career matters and financial business.

I have got lots of ambitions and realistic plans in my head, however I have made a lot of wrong decisions in my life and my choices are preventing me from realising my dreams. How do you stay focused when your life is dissolving into chaos and you are trapped in domestic drudgery?

Xenia Mon 13-Aug-12 18:48:12

It's hard if you have babies as they are up every few hours to breastcfeed so people get very tired. I can certanily remember that stage. We had 3 under 4, both worked full time, plus their father had his weekend work, plus we did up two flats and managed and let them. I remember that being hard in my mid to late 20s.

I was lucky that I concentrated on getting pretty good exam results at school and university which is why if all of us can encourage our daughters to do the same it can make life easier as you go on but plenty who leave school at 16 manage to found businesses which do okay too.

Domestic drudgery... well depends what it is. I did use 5am - 7am on Saturdays as working time when the twins were under 1 to get some work done. If you really want to fit things in most people can. Perhaps some of the domestic stuff does not need to be done.
The main problem for most people is they earn the minimum wage so they earn the cost of chidlcare. If you earn £xxx an hour everything changes as you can work for an hour and that buys you 40 hours of child care or cleaning or whatever.. It's why I think women putting on children's parties for £200 for 2 hours in N London are going to do better than someone offering to clean neighbours' houses at £6 an hour.

BonnieBumble Mon 13-Aug-12 19:40:49

Thank you Xenia. I think working between 5-7 a.m is a good idea. Once the children are up I find it really hard to focus on anything other than them. My youngest starts nursery for six hours per week in September and I have to make sure that I really make the most of that time.

I'm finding at the moment that I'm torn between my ambitions and my children and everyone is suffering as a result.

With hindsight I should have followed my gut instincts and not been swayed by other people's negativity.

Xenia Mon 13-Aug-12 20:28:40

It's never too late to improve things. We have had endless mumsnet thrreads about how much better children are with working mothers both in terms of their personalities, their abilities and of course the family income so never ever feel guilty for doing what often benefits them more than staying home with mother.

naturalbaby Mon 13-Aug-12 22:15:03

I have had my eyes opened recently regarding my earning power and career, and am inspired by plans of improving things. I wish I'd realised and done something about it before I had 3 DC's!

Xenia Tue 14-Aug-12 07:37:33

Good for you. Too many women value themselves too at too little a sum, although I accept that it is not hard to get any kind of job or set up a business for some people.

Technoviking Tue 14-Aug-12 15:39:36

I'm going to defend Xenia, here.

I don't think she was spouting off or glorifying anything. The OP asked how to earn £1000 a month just like that. Xenia's point is that she can only earn high day rates due to working bloody hard in her chosen field.

It's not for everyone, but it is for many. Everyone piling into her smacks of jealousy to me.

DolomitesDonkey Tue 14-Aug-12 15:47:16

I think there are only 2 nay-sayers "piling in", everyone else is in total agreement!

n.b., the nay-sayers have failed to come up with any proposed alternative - they just wanted to bash.

PetiteRaleuse Tue 14-Aug-12 16:16:06

Xenia bashing unfortunately seems to be a MN sport, which is very unfair as pretty much everything she says makes perfect sense. It's possibly just the usual British sneering at success. That said, on this thread she's not had too hard a time for once.

OP, I too am looking at ways to make some sort of income from home in the not so distant future, and am looking at the various options, and thinking of trying to do a bit of everything I am good at rather than trying to make one thing work. I don't know if that is a good idea, but it seems the most realistic to me at the moment.

naturalbaby Tue 14-Aug-12 16:47:02

A lot of what Xenia says must make sense given the success she describes at home and work - with several well educated children thrown in. It's interesting to hear about the losses as well - it's often easy to just focus on the massive gains and not be fully prepared for the losses. I think that's the main reason why I haven't risked more - low risk, low failure but low pay as well.

Xenia Bashing?? hmm

Unbelievable. But then we are all Cleaners in this country and not obsessed enough with money, apparently. Because money makes a person doesn't it?

Xenia Tue 14-Aug-12 18:40:00

I think I feel sufficientlyh secure to write about losses on property, 100% failed applications for board posts, 100% failure on bids for state sector work (you'd have thought a 100% female company would be just the job in our socialist town halls...) etc etc.

I don't put all my chickens in one basket. I do 4 or 5 things so they would all have to go very wrong to lose all income. I think the spreading of risk is sensible particularly if you are 100% responsible for your children. Even when I bgan to work for myself in 94 I only did that when I was earning exactly the same at the weekend from things not connected to my employment did I take the plunge and even that was all borne of failure as I was not promoted where I was.

Have a look at I bid and sometimes get work from that, usually little stuff. I did 2 hours work from there last week.

I also marked A level and professional exam papers for a time - it paid for our holidays to Gites de France in my 20s with 3 children under 10. Also worth taking on bits of work others don't really want because often that leads to something bigger as someone remembers you.

Money by no means make a person but it certainly helps to ensure you have leisure to be with children, think, time for yourself rather than just fighting to stay on top of things which is much harder on the minimum wage than otherwise.

This was a thread about how to make £1000 a month when huge numbers of women make £1000 a day so I was just trying to say make £1k a day y9our aim aim high. It's fun.

If I were on a thread about personal happiness or how to be a good person of course I would talk about other issues too. It is a money thread so money is written about.

Mumblepot26 Wed 15-Aug-12 07:56:36

Xenia, you are so spot on!! Am loving your attitude and feeling quite inspired!! off to work now, so must rush but just wanted to say massive thanks to everyone for your thoughts.

Xenia Wed 15-Aug-12 16:11:25

Thanks. Let us make every mumsnetter aim for work which pays £1k a day for this Autumn. Perhaps a mumsnet course on how to earn £1k a day would be good.... laughing as I type as it now feels like a pyramid scheme - in today's papers is the scandal of a new one in India whcih has just collapsed - Emus grown by farmers.

twentyten Wed 15-Aug-12 18:50:36

Really enjoying the comments-Xenia you raise some great points about big dreams.And spreading risk.
Op-what about using space somewhere else for counselling? Hire a room?Lots of places have facilities and you could add.
I've had a "portfolio life" for 15 years-some work very well-paid,some for free-in schools and other voluntary stuff,now some less well paid but less stressful/less travel- but it's all connected via peple/contacts-including work in Ireland and Europe(now possibly Dubai)
Think about who you could you help them- profitably?What do they need?

Xenia Wed 15-Aug-12 21:51:22

Yes, no qualifications needed for that. Someone even paid me £240 an hour for lilfe coaching by phone!

I like TT's suggestion of working out who you know and how you could help them.

twentyten Thu 16-Aug-12 10:11:54

Xenia not surprised you got paid that.Your approach is refreshing and very unusual- I think the key in this is about working out what it is that you are really good and find people or organisations who will pay well for it.
Playing small - a frequent female habit I'm sorry to say doesn't deliver the big dreams-financial or otherwise. And failure/rejection happens. Move on.

MelanieSminge Thu 16-Aug-12 10:20:28

Don't bash Xenia, she is interesting and unusual, especially about losing as well as winning.
Why should intelligent women work for £6 an hour as cleaners or whatever 'to fit in with the kids'?
Yes we should raise our expectations!
I have an online business (startup) and aiming for 1k a day sounds brilliant, just to raise the bar, iykwim.

twentyten Thu 16-Aug-12 10:24:57

confused certainly no bashing from me!Admiration!

PetiteRaleuse Thu 16-Aug-12 10:25:32

My female boss admitted to me recently that she goes home in the evening and stresses that she is not good enough to earn her salary, and that she doesn't understand how she got there. She didn't believe me when I said that she was being paid the market rate and that she does a bloody good job and deserves her pay. Her predecessor, OTOH, was a bloke, was crap at his job (and got fired) but still used to whine he wasn't paid enough.

Women aren't encouraged or expected to aim high financially, and far too often don't believe they quite deserve it somehow when they do succeed.

It is actually a post of Xenia's on a thread I read last year which encouraged me to ask for and obtain quite a significant pay rise.

MelanieSminge Thu 16-Aug-12 10:39:41

haha Xenia can make even more by being a making money guru to us here on mumsnet!

DolomitesDonkey Thu 16-Aug-12 11:45:11

It's a catch 22 though, is love to pay for good advice for xenia, but need to earn the money first to pay her! ;)

naturalbaby Thu 16-Aug-12 13:15:12

I was very tempted to PM Xenia recently for some hints/tips/life coaching after reading her input on a sahm thread...£240 an hour you say??

Xenia Thu 16-Aug-12 15:42:28

PR, that's wonderful. What is fascinating is why I think I am worth it. I don't think I was particularly over praised by parents. I did get far and away the best exam results ni the school I suppose and top of year at university kind of stuff, Mensa, fairly okay looking etc so may be objectively I just know I'm worth quite a bit but I don't think it's just that. May be it's inherent personality.

I do turn away stuff that is too low paid. I spend quite a bit of time helping people find someone to help them. I do some stuff unpaid. I just stopped doing some work abroad as I felt it was paid at 50% of what I felt was right for me for that whcih in a sense felpt like burning pound notes and I on,ly did it because I had got my divorce debt under £1m at last. I suppose I tend always to appear delighted to do work for people.

The figures are interesting. Am I opid the minimum weekly wage for a hour because I have an IQ over 150... I am tongue in cheek here of course... or because I just happened to get those books in my teens about what jobs pay more or because of luck. It's probably a mixture of things but I do think women should aim high.

When we say what people earn we have to remember over half of it is confiscated in the UK though so you only keep half because of tax, NI etc.

People are worth what others are prepared to pay them. So if you can pick a niche where most people won't do it - it might even be something like no other beautician in your area is prepared to do intimate vagina waxing or no other cab drivers are female and prepared to do the mid night to 6am slot on New year's Eve =- there are always things other can't do.

I am certainly not saying it's easy. As I say I fail at lots of things. I wrote 5 books in my teens and all were rejected by publishers again and again and again.

DolomitesDonkey Thu 16-Aug-12 15:47:21

Bugger. I've got an IQ of 150, it must be my face then! grin

Rollersara Thu 16-Aug-12 15:58:37

This thread is deviating from the OP a bit but very interesting. I had a revelation last year when I applied for a job despite being happy in my current role. At the first interview I realised I had the skills and it was a niche area, so when they asked about salary expectation I suggested £5k above whatwas advertised and told them why I was worth it. I didn't get the job, apparently I split the interview panel because what I suggested was quite radical, but it was nothing to do with the salary I asked for.

Xenia Thu 16-Aug-12 16:21:41

DD, I suppose we could do a graph or chart showing what makes some women earn a lot and what makes them not. I doubht looks is top of the tree unless you're an actor or model although the prettier you are the more you earn and also the richer the husband you tend to acquire too studies show.

It might have to be quite a complicated chart. Obviously ify ou leave school at 15 to have a baby and have no GCSEs it is going to be much harder over the next 50 years to earn a lot than if you graduate from a good university particularly if you then pick a high paid career.

I do think though picking something where you can work for yourself ultimately when you have experience is wise and I would encourage my chidlren in that. If you can own rather than being a hired hand worker you will probably have more choices. If you pick something which most people cannot do as they will never pass the exams or say you're David Beckham and no one else can play football as you can you are going to get more pay. I could not substitute for DB nor a surgeon but I would be pretty good at substituting for most cleaners and plenty of admin people.

LaTrucha Thu 16-Aug-12 17:56:52

I am really enjoying checking up on this thread. I am in a moment of anxious transition and it is helping to keep some of the dark clouds of self doubt away. Earning has never been important to me until now. I preferred to do something I loved for peanuts. Things are different now and the transition is not easy. I probably will never earn a £1000 a day but I am at least viewing my employment prospects in a new and positive light. Thanks everyone.

Xenia Thu 16-Aug-12 20:41:16

That's good. Wwell I was pyaing a mortgage and half the cost of a full time nanny when I was 23 and school fees byu the time I was 25 so I always had a necessity to earn reasonable sums just to keep us going, so one advantage of having marriage and responsibilities at a young age - you put a lot of effort into well paid careers.

LaTrucha Thu 16-Aug-12 20:58:31

I get that. I really enjoyed what I did but there are now definite downsides. It would be good to have a more solid base now. The only clever financial thing I did was to near pay all my mortgage.

Xenia Fri 17-Aug-12 18:35:56

That s a very good thing to do. We always tried and I still do to prioritise paying off debt. That might mean you seem to have less money to spend than others - I just replaced knickers with holes in which felt very extravagant as I prioritise debt repayment over knickers always and that's one reason I've done reasonably well with money. although I suppose a lot of women make their fortune through wearing sexy knickers as it were as it enables them to attract a rich husband which is probably an easier way to wealth particularly if you hardly have any GCSEs.

I was thinking of more of my failures today, there are loads. I just seem to forget them and do something else. Another was bikram yoga franchise - I even wrote to Lord Mandelson who does it but he never replied.

This weeks is buying a public lavatory in London to convert to a home... I would give that a 0.1% chance of proceeding but it would be fun to try.

DolomitesDonkey Fri 17-Aug-12 18:50:31

This is something I really admire about you Xenia, your ability to laugh about it all and see the funny side - you don't seem afraid to send yourself up.

So, for those of us camping out in the Xenia fanclub - is there anywhere we can see you speak publicly? I had read on these boards once that you did do that sort of thing.

MelanieSminge Fri 17-Aug-12 18:52:38

This weeks is buying a public lavatory in London to convert to a home
do it Xenia! That is one of my favourite fantasies!

LaTrucha Fri 17-Aug-12 19:25:39

I always thought that kitting out a big rig as a house could be popular. Like a camper van with trucker kind of cool.

porridgelover Fri 17-Aug-12 21:35:25

Fascinating discussion. Had not seen this discussed here before, but it's given me lots of food for thought...I read here recently about women underpricing themselves in the workplace.
I am guilty- what I do is health based (like the OP). I know there is a demand for private therapists; but I am terrified of putting myself out as an 'expert' (even though I am, I now realise).

I suppose that, like so much else, it's a matter of setting a high goal and going after it no matter what.

naturalbaby Fri 17-Aug-12 21:36:18

Count me in to the Xenia fanclub talk please!

Schoolworries Fri 17-Aug-12 23:36:31

I am trying to set my own business up. Very early days but Im getting interest already.

The problem we have is we are too "rich" according to tax credits to get any childcare cost help- the reality is we cant afford childcare as Im obviously making no money until Im set up and dh salary only goes so far.

I stayed up till 3am one night this week to work. Baby up at 5am.2 hours sleep is not a sensible thing to be doing when your in sole charge of baby next day.

So how do trapped people like me do it? People who cannot afford childcare? Xenia I dont understand how you afforded a nanny at 23 in the infancy of your career?

Xenia Sat 18-Aug-12 09:26:43

Melanie, if it comes to anything I can invite every mumsnetter after it's converted as long as they don't all urinate in it....

There is another been done in London
The pictures here are particularly fun to look at

I only mention it because it just one of my random ideas and I don't even expect a reply. it's just an illlustration of how I try things all the time and most fail but enough stick to mean I earn reasonable amounts and have quite an interesting life.

School - it certainly wasn't easy. We both earned the same £7500 pa that year and the nanny cost 7500. However I knew by the time I was my age now I would be earning a lot sothat investment where we spent 50% of our gross wage on childcare (so in effect one of us was working at a loss) was more than worth it. So how did we eat? Every baby clothe was either free or from Oxfam, second hand high chair, no baby bath and all the stupid stuff people think is needed. We didn't sleep her in a drawer but almost..... Bought very little expensive food - eg orange juice was totally out, tap water in. Hair conditioner absolutel beyond the pale, no deoderant etc etc.. Cut your own hair. Cycled all over. In other words there are 5things you can do to spend less even if all your friends think it's essential to eat meals out.

I think sleep not money is the hardest thing. Obviously never tolerate sexism. That is the core of most succesful women's lvies.We always knew I would earn more. Before we married we agreed he would give up work if the nanny thing did not work out. BHe moved towns for my career. Women who earn nothing marrying much higher earning men where they are the little woman on pin money who marry up have a much much harder time of things.

*If you both are working then yo both get up in the night. I wiould go to sleep at 10. He woudl stay up with the baby to 12 or 1. That first one never really slept much (even now in her 20s).... then I'd take over for an hour or two - I breastfed but even if you do thei father can hold the screaming thing for 2 hours between 3 and 5am and plenty of non sexist men do even if they have work next day because their wife also has work next day and we never ever accept sexism.

Trills Sat 18-Aug-12 09:46:31

even if you do thei father can hold the screaming thing for 2 hours between 3 and 5am

Sounds rather like "don't have children" would be a good piece of earning advice.

Schoolworries Sat 18-Aug-12 09:48:59

Hi xenia. I see what your saying, but even if we used every last penny we could only afford 1 day a week of childcare.

dh is not being sexist though at all. He has to be up at 5am to catch the train and is not back until 7.30pm. That is the nature of his job, based in London. On certain days he is even contracted to stay in London until an unspecified time for marketing purposes.

He has offered to be in sole charge in evenings when he is home early but I am exhausted by then with our lively baby.

He has offered at the weekend to look after which I will be doing today but the weekend is not enough.

He does get up h the night too, but it is shakey. He is the only one getting paid and keeping the roof over our heads so I would rather he be the one on the ball.He is dealing with millions of pounds, one big mistake and his career in tatters. Sleep is vital.

Its hard these days for people like us in our 20's. Unless you earn an excessive amount of money already (unlikely with still young in your career, having student debt, having to pay x6 for our houses than people 20 years older than us did) or you have a wonderful network of family prepared to help out it can be very, very hard whilst you have a baby.

Xenia Sat 18-Aug-12 09:55:06

Okay some other ideas.... fo some periods one of us looked after the chidlren entirely alone on Saturday whilst the other worked and on Sunday we swapped. That gets you about 16 hours to work if you really pack in the hours.

It was certainly have when we were spending over 50% of each net salary on childcare etc and had no help from relatives. In fact the house we bought then is just about the same ratio to the earnings from the same job now but that might just be random. Anyway people have to work from where they are now.

Certainly if one of us was back from work at 9 never mind 7.30 we might then spend 1 - 2 hours cleaning or dealing with the washing. I am not saying any of that is fun but sometimes it's worth it for setting up a business for the nexr 30 years.

Could you approach your local college and ask them if they haev any girls training to do childcare who might come in? You presumably are in the house so they can come and get you if they need you?

Also we hired a sixth former for 4 hours on Saturday mornings who was better than any nanny we ever had. I am sure because we could afford it we paid her well but there is no minimum wage under certain ages so you might get some pretty cheap childcare whilst helping a girl(or boy) get valuable work experience. That person might even be able to help with admin in the business too - you can stuff envelopes whilst the baby is strapped to sling on your front etc.

Anyway good luck with it. It is likely to do a lot better than my lavatory conversion idea.

Schoolworries Sat 18-Aug-12 10:00:29

Thinking about it , Im still not sure how if you were literally only settng up you were earning £7.5k though?

Most people make nothing at all for a while as they are still researching their deal getting the brand together, sorting out the legal side and beginning to market or getting contacts.That takes a good 3 months minimum.

After that, Most people will be spending more than they earn for the best part of a year with their set up costs. Most people would have broken even by the end.

I cant see how you could literally be starting from absoloute scratch and could have started earning that much within the year. Especially as a steady income so you know you could afford nanny.

Soeaking of which, Also I dont understand why you would choose the most expensive childcare option of nanny if you couldnt really afford it.

Trills Sat 18-Aug-12 10:01:21

Im still not sure how if you were literally only settng up you were earning £7.5k though?

As I understand it, they were setting up their own business while still holding down other (paid) jobs.

Schoolworries Sat 18-Aug-12 10:03:46

I hope my last post doesnt come across as catty, as reading back it does. Which was not the intention.

I genuinely am baffled though, as I cannot see how you could make so much money from word go. If I could, I would be laughing. Easily afford childcare and a cleaner then. I just dont see how.

Schoolworries Sat 18-Aug-12 10:06:49

X posted Trills. Oh, I didnt realise that part.

Trills Sat 18-Aug-12 10:09:58

But then again Xenia seems to be blessed with a kind of stamina that I do not have (which I admit may be through lack of practise).

5:30-7:30 on a Saturday almost certain is a very good time to get work done, and if you try hard you could get 16 hours of productive work done on a weekend day, but I would be exhausted and broken and not producing anything worthwhile.

Trills Sat 18-Aug-12 10:15:39

I'd like to reiterate to the OP that if you have children then you can't get a lot of work done while they are physically there.

If you want to avoid childcare altogether then you'll have to do all of the work while they are in school or asleep.

lljkk Sat 18-Aug-12 10:26:53

is there somewhere online, maybe a bit like MN, but WITHOUT XENIA. Because I sometimes think I would some feedback about my going back to work dilemmas. But I wouldn't want to hear a word out of Xenia. Not a peep. Because she raises my blood pressure & never says anything of use to me.
I know I can't expect her to not post on an MN thread, so can anyone suggest other community websites where folk think about these things & don't mind brainstorming? I am thinking MSE, maybe?

Trills Sat 18-Aug-12 10:44:39

MSE is good for ideas on how to make money, yes.

I can't guarantee there won't be people on there who give advice you dislike though.

If you are planning to go back to work you might find it useful to practise dealing with people who say things that you don't like. Most kinds of work involve interacting with people who you haven't chosen.

ValiumQueen Sat 18-Aug-12 10:52:49

I am a nurse and am about to go on Mat leave with my third child! There hardly seems any point me going back. Have considered childminding, but it is not a reliable income AFAIK. You are very lucky to have your counselling skills.

lljkk Sat 18-Aug-12 10:53:19

Oh there are lots of plonkers on MSE, I know that. Just like everywhere else. But I'm not so used to them saying the same ol' same ol'. Xenia can keep MN to spout her perspective.

Think I will go for MSE because I will use my real name there & all the real specifics (wouldn't want to do that here, anyway). Still open to other website suggestions, though.

Browsing, I'm finding loads of thread on MSE that are sane & friendly & realistic,
like this one.

Trills Sat 18-Aug-12 10:56:08

Bye then.

I think it's rather rude to say you want another forum not because it has a different population in general but because there is one specific person you want to avoid.

Xenia Sat 18-Aug-12 11:14:54

Yes, I have often thought my older daughter will do well not because of lots of other thigns like good exam results but becauseo f the ability to keep going whatever happens. I wonder what gives some of that that robustness. I definitely need loads of sleep 8 or 9 hours a night now the children do sleep I get almost every night so it's not that I only need 4.

Perhaps schools and parents should teach a lot more stocism.

A lot of people have enjoyed this thread which in effect came how to so many women earn £1000 a day when others can hardly earn anything. It's a fascinating topic.

VQ - loads of reasons - you probabkly like your work. It shows your chidlren a good example of work ethic. It is usually more interesting to work than be at home. The children will be at school and then leave and you may well still want to work. Your husband may not always be around or fall on hard times and yours may be the only income. Thousands of good reasons to work.

As for no one can make money immediately that is not true. It depends on theb usiness. If you advertise today to tutor children next week you are making your £40 an hour or whatever profit from day one.

SoSoMamanBebe Sat 18-Aug-12 11:31:00

Can you write? Can you write medical copy for websites or leaflets?

I write and charge £500 a day BUT I have loads of commercial experience. Download some tutorials/ audiobooks off ITunes and get yourself tuned in. I also have childcare.

DolomitesDonkey Sat 18-Aug-12 12:47:52

I try to start at 5am to work on my business for a few hours before the "salaried job" starts - although frequently the children wake up. sad give it a few years and I'll have to drag them up. If they are with me then I just try and do stuff which doesn't require too much thinking, e.g., for me I can't write copy with them around, but I can schedule tweets for example or check adwords/analytics.

I work ft, have 2 under 2.2 and until last week was riding my horse 4 times a week (it died). I also have no family support and live abroad.

I found once having children I didn't need as much sleep as I thought I did.

Start-up costs can and will vary enormously of course. I've spent very little on mine and have been to free chamber of commerce tax meetings which have given me enough knowledge to do my tax returns until I'm seeing income. I'm "bootstrapping' and am not spending a 300 consultation fee until I need him/her to actually do something. Filling zeros in to a tax return I can do myself! ;)

If I weren't working ft I'd look at "hot-desking" so to be working in an office environment but on pay-as-you-go terms.

DolomitesDonkey Sat 18-Aug-12 12:49:27

Btw, I think it's incredibly rude and distasteful to join this thread simply to say "I'm not posting if she's posting". Really? Are we back at school?

Xenia Sat 18-Aug-12 13:20:54

It doesn't bother me. I think there are a lot of interesting posts on this thread (including even mine). I was interested to see how many things I have done which have failed over 30 years too and how that does not seem to put me off although I am not staking my life on the lavatory conversion deal!

All I can say to younger people on the thread is that having children under 5 is very very hard whether you work or not and how dead easy everything becomes once they are older or so I've found particularly when teenagers start sleeping in, a concept you can hardly imagine when you have babies. Also they can even help your business as they get older. Mine have been useful over the years, rather than a babysitting cost.

I would agree with DD about not being conned into spending money on things you don't need when you're starting up.

Silibilimili Sat 18-Aug-12 13:21:17

Xenia, you island comes up in every
Single post of yours read. Do you live in a
Make believe world?
Lot of the stuff you say makes sense but a a significant amount is also 'bragging' or what seems to me like make believe.

GodisaDj Sat 18-Aug-12 13:22:00

I have skimmed the thread to check suggestions for the OP (I know there was a lot of discussion about other things tok) but wanted to suggest Occupational Health as a potential option.

I see this job advertised a lot in my field (Human Resources) and believe there is a market out there for small medium businesses to have an Occ Health point of contact when they have to manage sickness absence.

A friend of mine has just set up her Occupational Health consultancy business whilst on mat leave with dc3. She can't keep up with the work. Likewise, she isn't a HR person so is throwing me work too.

Perhaps get in touch with a local HR consultant to see if there is demand in your area?

Lagartijadoesthecrazyshake Sat 18-Aug-12 13:30:01

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BrittaPerry Sat 18-Aug-12 14:08:54

I've done a few direct sales jobs - Avon, Ann Summers and Usborne have been at various points in my life, but i wont say which I do now in case I get accused of recruiting.

They get a bit of a bad press, but I can only think they are from people who couldn't be bothered - all three had me earning at least double minimum wage within three months, and it went up from there. Not Xenia level, but not bad considering every other job has been minimum wage and stupid hours, if the job is even there.

My main tips for direct sales:

Research before you join. Not just the company, but who you join with. Most of these companies have a pyramid structure, so whoever you join with has a vested interest in you earning and staying happy. Never just join through head office. I would say that the best option is someone with a smallish team, who is ambitious, and who has someone very successful above them. That way you get the expertise of the successful person and the personal help from the ambitious person.

Choose something that will work in your area. Avon does well in areas with lots of low paid people in a good community. Ann summers is brilliant with students. Usborne for the middle class pushy mums. Lots of competition isn't always a bad thing - awareness of your product will be high.

Grab every bit of extra income - raffles at home parties, special offers from one catalogue sold a full price from the other, etc. keep thinking of new ways of selling your product - do stalls, Facebook, internet. Get n touch with groups and clubs who might be interested in either buying (end of term presents?) or letting you hold a stall.

Recruit. There is only so much you can sell, but recruits keep bringing in money. Support them well and they will become friends, too.

Be positive - your first few weeks may not be very lucrative. Carry on.

naturalbaby Sat 18-Aug-12 14:13:30

I've been told Occupational Health would be good to retrain in, but dismissed it. Will look again GodisaDj - I've been keeping my eye out for positions like this that are in demand.

Xenia Sat 18-Aug-12 17:34:04

The thread is packed with Xenia wisdom and much appreciated... and I think I have concentrated on my many failures herein which is as interesting as any success.

I was trying to find a UK list of which jobs have the highest hourly rate.

Actually this isn't too bad from the US:
"Lee says the three easiest ways to get a $100 an hour job are: 1) Become a doctor, 2) Become a CEO of a large company (500 employees or more) or 3) Manage other people’s money (stock broker, portfolio manager, etc.).

So, most of the time, you’re going to need higher education like a medical degree, law degree or at least an MBA. Though, as you’ll see, there are a few exceptions on the list for those with special talents in the arts. It’s also important to note with most of the jobs, you’re not going to earn $100 an hour out of the gate — you’ll need to stay in the business for a few years. "

This is why the parents who drag their chidlren round recruitment stands I have manned at private schools particularly second generation immigrants insist little Johnny or Jane considers dentistry, law, medicine etc. Do something most people can't do and you'll do okay.

I was trying to find a treasurehunter so emailed a contact who owns part of a precious metals deposit in the Antipodes. So if you can develop a niche skill or something where 80% of the population just do not have a high enough IQ to do this or pass the exams that tends to help.

Good ideas from Britta.

We also had our house used for filming although sadly not recently and that was very well paid.

naturalbaby Sat 18-Aug-12 18:31:21

I read an article on having houses used for filming and saved a list somewhere, I love the interesting and quirky things the masses don't usually have the opportunity to do.

A relative of mine has a very good medical degree so I am watching with great interest as she climbs the career ladder and contemplates starting a family - timing makes a huge difference and she is way ahead of one of her peers who had a baby a while ago.
I've heard plenty of 'I don't want my children to be a doctor/lawer/dentist, I just want them to be happy', but it's what I am placing at the top of my list of priorities for my children.

maybenow Sat 18-Aug-12 19:46:06

wait wait wait OP - you want to earn 'at home' but also you want to care for your children full-time as you talk about what you earn after childcare as if you won't use childcare.

that SERIOUSLY limits your options... pretty much to either childminding (about the only job you can do while caring for your own children) or to something with opposite hours to your Dh/DP.

my experience as a successful freelancer is that you HAVE to do what you are qualified, expeirenced, specialised or talented in doing. i don't know what your talents are but your experiene is counselling so i don't know why you dismiss that so readily. you could find a room to rent by the hour and do that out of office hours to cater for working clients and allow your dh/dp to do childcare.

Xenia Sat 18-Aug-12 21:59:37

(nb, yes we were lucky but only really once - £10k 10 days Ruth Rendell thihng, huge huge fun and I thought wow, we can have loads of this and make lots of money and do nothing but like most of my optimsitic hopes it came to naught, virtually nothing since expect a radio 4 play - why film a radio play in my garage?)

Agree with meybenow - stick with what you are qualfied and experienced or talented at doing.

fortyplus Sat 18-Aug-12 22:12:02

Gosh what a fascinating thread! No time to read the whole thing tonight but will definitely do so tomorrow!

Xenia Sun 19-Aug-12 15:45:24

You need to find a skill hardly anyone has (Beckham at football, ability to tolerate short fat ugly old millionaire, best female surgeon in the UK or whatever...)

If we are sticking with £1k a day which a good few mumsnetters earn most probably have some kind of key service others cannot provide. IT Is one:

" The bidding war for actuarial IT talent that broke out late last year has intensified, with insurers now resorting to five-figure relocation packages for migrants - if rates of over £1,000 a day fail to secure enough UK contractors for Solvency II projects.

Still seeing insurers “rush to comply” with the regulations, IT staffing firm ReThink Recruitment said pay for actuary risk modellers, database designers and system modellers had almost doubled since December.
Then, rates were up to £600 a day – whereas today, with the commencement date of the regulations drawing nearer, the same candidates are on £900 a day, hiked to £1,100 a day where a rival end-user tries to poach."

The netaporter lady sold something no one has done before - v expensive fashion items on line.

I certainly think it is worth our children getting key skills at university and often post grad too even if they think they will just get nito business and sell something because knowledge about accounts and tax and employment law and law in general - sales law, share capital, pensions are all things that most businesses need.

WilfSell Sun 19-Aug-12 19:05:36

Hmmm, I wonder what transferable skills the average (or, some might say mediocre grin) university lecturer has that could spin out for 1k a day?

Zoelda Sun 19-Aug-12 19:20:25

Omg!!! Xenia!! You can ONlY by from the orange!! Hahahahahahahahaha

DolomitesDonkey Sun 19-Aug-12 19:39:35

WilfSelf Advice & coaching for 11-plus, UCAS helicopter parents! wink

I really like the positivity and "can do" attitude found upon this thread. It's given me real inspiration and I've had a bit of a vomit of ideas session today and thoughts about "diversifying my portfolio".

This time next year I could've made in the region of over 100 pounds! wink But still I'll keep trying.

DolomitesDonkey Sun 19-Aug-12 19:40:42

No, on a serious note - I feel like it's all coming together now and thank you all for your thoughts on this thread, I've found it very inspirational.

Xenia Sun 19-Aug-12 22:21:19

Good. I am a positive person.
University lecturers? I've worked with loads - they either contract services at £1k a day if they have those skills - loads of public sector external consultants are paid at that rate. I speak for £1k a day actually about 50 days a year. I am absolutely no better than many university lecturers ni my subject but I suppose they juts cannot be bothered or they don't do what I do - write to 20 + companies pester, fix things up make it a huge priority and do it in holidays. I matched my salary when I was employed through work done out of hours not in my work area. Instead a lot of lecturers do take longer holidays than say 2 weeks a year.

Also the ones I worked with tend to be scientists and they can and often do get involved in businesses which they own - lots of univesrities have policies allowing revenue shares in a way the private sector does not if you are an employee and/or they go self employed and found businesses. Some have made massive sums.

SrirachaGirl Sun 19-Aug-12 22:23:55

Has anyone said prostitution yet? I hear you can make fairly good money and it's flexible...can fit in around children's school hours and you can be your own boss.

Xenia Sun 19-Aug-12 22:24:07

Here is one examle but these chaps (sorryu they are all chaps not women which is amassive disappointment - where were the women? Why do women go in for dresses (little money unless you are netaporter) and men into defence (mind you Johnnie Boden has done pretty well at dresses)... did rather well having been state employees defence sector:

" The shares surged on the news of the appointment of his successor Leo Quinn, the former chief executive of bank-note printer De La Rue. Analysts said Mr Quinn had a record for improving profits and direction at businesses he has worked at, including Invensys and Honeywell.

"Quinn comes with an excellent industry track record both in Europe and the US for better focusing businesses and driving margin improvement," analysts at Cazenove said.

Qinetiq said it had been looking for a new chief executive for a year, and Mr Love's departure was not related to criticism of the company in Wednesday's report into the 2006 Nimrod crash.

Mr Love, 55, will leave in November after four years as chief executive, and has worked for the company since 1992, when he joined the Defence Research Agency as chief financial officer. He is entitled to the pay and benefits as set out in his contract, expected to be broadly similar to last year when he was paid £488,000, with no bonus. Mr Love also owns Qinetiq shares worth about £8.4m.

He and Qinetiq's other senior executives, including chairman Sir John Chisholm, who stands down next summer, came under fire at the time the company was listed in 2006 for making millions of pounds from stakes they had bought at a lower price a few years earlier. Private equity group Carlyle reaped £300m from selling a 30pc stake it paid £42m for. The shares rose 22½ to 165.4p. "

WilfSell Sun 19-Aug-12 23:05:24

For sure, it is a good way to earn extra money for scientists who have obvious spin-outs/ Public sector consultancy, perhaps although the people who I know who do it now in fields I know a little bit about tell me the market has utterly collapsed right now. I am sure you're right Xenia, about prioritising it and most of us being uninterested - making money is not your typical lecturer's core value.

But it's becoming more attractive the more out of love I fall with such idealistic vocational notions grin

Zoelda Mon 20-Aug-12 08:57:09

x (ly) - what about kids learning that stuff whie they work? much better way for them to spend their time and our money, surely.

Xenia Mon 20-Aug-12 10:17:49

There is a difficulty for academics. I always found the last learned writing I did the higher fees I got for it. The easist shortest writing I have done has got me more work/business and publicity than anything which requires a lot of effort with footnotes. If you only get funds to your department if you write the long good stuff you are unlikely to do the commercial stuff. I pay an academic for something he does for me and he has just stopped doing it so the work has gone to a private sector person, because I think he is busy but also because it is not the sort of publication that gets his department the right kind of brownie points.

I do think it is worth women wanting to earn more money looking at what women who earn £1k a day do and then doing that. For example if people pay £400 a day for loads of business conferences and you can find 10 people to come on your course that is just about £4k profit less your marketing and room hire costs. If instead you agree to do cleaning for 5 hours for your neighbour at £6 an hour that is £30.

NellyJob Mon 20-Aug-12 10:37:04

(slight name change, same person that thinks your London loo idea is great)
some kind of training, Xenia? Perhaps a 'women into business' course?

Lostgirl27 Mon 20-Aug-12 10:48:51

I'm loving this thread also, I think it's great hearing women talking positively about earning high and not feeling feeling like they are choosing work over children. I'm very inspired! I was training to be a nurse but gut instinct tells me it's not right for me, high stress and low pay! Considering re training in something I can do self employed, I just hope it works out!

Schoolworries Mon 20-Aug-12 12:45:15

This thread is inspring... But also making me feel inadequtae as Im struggling to look after my children, home, admin, provide extra education for dc, have quality family time, a high quality marriage, see friends and extended family, make time for hobbies, excercise AND set a business up!

I feel overwhelmed. Not a superwoman. sad

DolomitesDonkey Mon 20-Aug-12 14:17:32

What is it they say? "If you want something done - ask a busy person"!

I live abroad so the only family I need to concentrate on are in this house and my friends are mostly exercise pals.

I've given up sleep.

Schoolworries Mon 20-Aug-12 14:21:28

Given up no sleep! Noooooooooo....!

DolomitesDonkey Mon 20-Aug-12 15:45:20

If I can make 1000 a day then I will be afford to spend quality time with my family and persuing my hobbies.

If I make considerably less than 1000 a day I will spend the next 30 years on a wheel.

I'd rather throw time (and hard work) at the situation now and take that gamble!

DolomitesDonkey Mon 20-Aug-12 15:49:22

As Xenia so frequently points out - I will be able to pay someone else to do the dreary time-consuming stuff such as scrubbing the oven & toilet (n.b., not with same brush), getting the dust off the top of the wardrobe, etc.

In my dreams I use a valet service to book my holidays. I don't require an island, just a small personal ski resort. wink

Schoolworries Mon 20-Aug-12 15:49:38

Yes, your right. Im trying to work now but keep getting a 10 month old pressing the "off " button on my PC!

Xenia Mon 20-Aug-12 19:48:18

Glad Lostg is inspire. The best way to deal with these things is say if your husband were talking about how to earn £1k a day would he think or you think he was "putting money over children" (of course not so similar comments to or about women are just sexist and to keep them down).

I think all we can expect of women is the same as men. Edwina Currie had a lot of wise words on all this recently - men and women both delegate things. Now it might be you pay someone to scrub your floor because you earn 40 x an hour what she or he does so it makes sense but few men and women with children do so little they have no balance.

The main point I think I hvae is that anyone with a child under 5 will be very busy and tired and that that period is a tiny tiny period of life. My youngest of 5 children just shaved for the first time. The period when they are little is very short so if it's hard just endure it because it will soon be over but don't make career decisions you then regret for 40 years.

Lostg, any training is good, training as a nurse - you might as well complete it. Old age care is going to be a massive market. In fact I was supposedly this month going to think about a business in that area but not had time. Some nurses have set up staff agencies and made a lot of money that way and because they have the qualification they are more likely to understand and attract other nurses.

I was talking to two people over lunch on a work thing today and what struck me was all three of us were happy and liked our work and I was saying what a nice change it made from my meeting middleaged fed up people. If you don't like something try to change it rather than just moan about it. I certainly accept it is not easy particularly at the moment.

Our gas man who is here today is doing fine because he is just like me - he comes when he says, he does the job well and he will work a 12 hour shift - he's now just gone over the 12 hour mark to finish. He even asked if it were okay to stay late and woudl I be turfing him out! The opposite - I'm delighted he is utterly reliable and conscientious. Most people aren't so it's not that hard to be better than a lot of people simply by turnuing up early, never missing an appointment adn doing what you say you'll do. That is beyond loads of people.

caramelwaffle Tue 21-Aug-12 02:00:05

Salaries for the UK here

2008 figures, however, updated by respondents.

Just to throw out some ideas.

recall Tue 21-Aug-12 03:02:18

I agree with Xenia regarding acquiring a niche skill, I have focused on a very tiny part of nursing, it was very scary at first, and I sometimes work 16 hour days because I work for myself. I once drove from Exeter to Newcastle and back in a day to earn £125. My family and friends all thought I was mad, but I was just starting out and could not bare turning down a job. I worked throughout my 3 pregnancies only taking off a couple of weeks to establish breast feeding. I remember working one day and having to hide very strong Braxton hicks from my patient,( I think I went into labour the next day )Sometimes I was working at a loss.

Some of the people who in the past have said I was "mad" working the long strange hours have also said "its alright for some" regarding my my financial situation as it is now.

I have earned £1000 in a day, although i don't every day. I suffer from ADD which I think has helped me to hyper focus and be creative, and get so bored in employment that I had to find another way.

OP, working from about an e commerce ? Learn how to make a web site and flog something from the comfort of your laptop, or even drop shipping.

I do odd things to make cash, I once bought a second hand pair of UGGs and customised them with rabbit fur. The UGGs cost me £17 and the fur was £8, I flogged them on e bay for £45. It took me an hour to sew them, so that was £15 for an hour's work. I did it sat at home with my 3 children. I was just curious to see if i could make some cash and it worked. A bit random I know.

You could utilise your RGN qualification and go on an aesthetics course ? Could then do Botox etc, maybe not from home, but could hire a clinic at weekends when you ( possibly - I don't know your situation ) have a partner around to look after the children, or even practice in people's homes - save on outgoings.
Doing a very rough calculation, you would only need to do 5 to get your £1000.

mathanxiety Tue 21-Aug-12 04:29:01

You would be amazed what people will pay for simple home sewn items (but this would probably be a sideline). DD1 used to make jewellery and sell it a local fairs, Christmas events, etc. She used my best nail clippers instead of buying a set of wire clippers. My Dsis's MIL made a packet selling fascinators online after she did a short adult education course immediately after the big Royal wedding.

With a background in nursing and then counselling you are really well set up for career advice, life coaching, lifestyle coaching (weight management, bad back management, losing pregnancy weight, diabetes management, personal coaching) or offering services to small businesses such as interviewing and evaluation of candidates, management communication in small businesses, managing business climate/atmosphere in small businesses -- it isn't such a stretch from individual counselling to tackling group dynamics and there are books galore that you could absorb. If you sit down and break down the various components of what you have done, with emphasis on the 'soft skills'
you will see certain strengths emerging, especially in communications and understanding group dynamics.

I know an ex nurse who makes a lot as a specialised masseuse for post natal abdominal issues and she talks you through birth trauma/ishoos with your own mother at the same time -- she is great and has quite a reputation. Her hours are school hours and she has a waiting list.

A lot of women are nervous about flying by the seat of their pants and feel they need to be completely qualified for any business endeavour, with the perfect business plan, the right education, contacts in their field, everything lined up oh so nicely on your desk, stapler and phone and printer full of paper and all the right looking business cards and supplies; they seem to operate with the old nightmare of finding themselves with all their clothes flying off in the middle of the supermarket never far from their minds -- I have learned from seeing DS and his friends tackle projects that none of that is at all necessary and that most men (especially younger ones) do not fear embarrassment as women do at all.

You need a website that says 'quality' loud and clear. Technology has liberated us from so much that was needed in the past.

You need to keep a weather eye out for opportunities and go for it. As Xenia said, failure is part of the game and you can't win em all, but it doesn't reflect on you -- men seem to know this but women worry too much about perfection, getting it right. It won't always work out but just try to cover your ass until you hit on something that works.

naturalbaby Tue 21-Aug-12 09:37:21

Maybe I should go for a nursing degree then, I keep putting it off as I have 2 under 5's and am worried about the shift working to start with.

I love the customised UGG story!

Xenia Tue 21-Aug-12 09:46:15

recall, we are very similar and I suspect many successful women are. I drove quite a long way yesterday for not massive huge amount of pay. In fact I'd earner more by 9.40am at home yesterday than I did on my fairly long trip but sometimes you have to do things at a loss in order to succeed later.

I was telling one of my children about the toddler experiment psychologists do - does the toddler want one sweet now or two later? Those of us who go in for deferred gratification (I certainly am) tend to do better eg our year of one of us working at a loss as childcare was more than one of our net salaries and recalls and my taking 2 weeks off to have a baby. I worked until I went into labour. In fact these sorts of things are often very good for women. it's the ones who spend the last 2 months on the sofa not moving eating donuts who have the medical issues.

I agree with matha too - try flying by the seat of your pants. My random idea last week (conversion of lavatory to property and I only mentioned it because it was current, I have ideas all the time and most fail as that one will) would be a flying by seat of pants thing. When you start most jobs you don't know much and you bluff. You need to spend as long on telling colleagues and those who matter how wonderful you are (women are useless at this compared to men) as being good at the work. There is no process of osmosis whereby bosses see you working silently 12 hour days crying into your documents. Instead work smart as well as hard and make sure everyone hears how wonderful you are at it all.

i certainly think some qualifications are wise so if naturalbaby could do a nursing degree that might help although some people study things for many years and hardly make a penny and others set themselves up the next day diong a business and make a lot from the start if it's something where you don't need the qualification to work in it. If you work for yourself you decide the hours which is why so many British women run their own companies and more women are millionaires in the UK than men at the moment.

venusandmars Tue 21-Aug-12 10:00:13

For me, it's been about 3 things - expectations, risk, and excitement

Expectations: when I left school I decided not to go to university but worked and studied part-time - my reasoning was that I was hoping to get married one day and have children, so what was the point in getting a degree just to stop working and stay at home (rather shock shock now at how I thought). So I got a jib that was well within my capabilities and did some part-time qualifications too. That was all OK. I quite liked what I did, had a relatively secure job, and went back part-time after my dc1 was born. I could have stayed in that job and would now have been earning about £15K pa. Well actually, I wouldn't because the place I worked closed last year and my friends who still worked there are all redundant with very little prospect of finding something else.

Excitement: What I did find out (about myself) was that I liked learning and that I had more ability in some arenas than I had ever thought. So I did some more qualifications (part-time, with a young child, while working). Then I moved to a completely different career path.

Risk: I moved from a secure job to work on a 6 month contract. Because I believed there would be more opportunities, because I had some level of self-belief, and because although I liked my previous job, the new job intrigued me and excited me more.

Expectation: When I made the move I'd seen a job advert for a job earning £20K and I thought 'that's the job I'd like to aim for in 20 years time'. Within 2 years of moving job (all on relatively insecure employment contracts) I was in a post earning £20K. I learned such a lot about my own low-level of expectations from that. Not that they were bad, but just that they were unambitious.

Risk: I never stuck on a mainstream career track - I took opportunities that others thought were taking me off track, secondments to other organisations, transfers to different industries, posts in remote locations that required me to travel 2 hours to work and then 2 hours back again.

Excitement: And I always tried to do jobs that I loved.

Risk: Ten years ago, despite being in a well paid job, in a lovely organisation, my work/life balance was out of kilter, so I left and started working freelance - much to the horror of some people around me. My mantra was 'to do work that I loved, working with/for people that I liked'. And so it has been.

Excitement: The work I do now is nothing like the work I did 10 years ago (although it uses some of the same skills). I keep gravitating towards new challenges and new interests which keep me motivated.

Risk / Expectation: well who knows? I would find it difficult to guess or imagine what I might be doing in another 10 years time. But I believe I'll be happy, motivated, as successful as I need to be and satisfied with my income.

And apologies if all of the above sounds trumpet-blowing and self-congratulatory. I'm not super-woman, I'm not some kind of hero. I'm not even especially talented or gifted. I am good at what I do (although there are probably others who are better); I can manage to market myself (although there are others who would make a better job of it); I am motivated to do the work I do (although I can spend hours sitting on my lazy back-side staring out of the window).

I met recently with some others in the same 'industry' and a couple of them were commenting on my current work - along the lines of 'well it's alright for you, you've got experience in x' or 'well of course if I lived where you do, I could make that income' or 'well I can't make that commitment because my husband / child / horse needs to be looked after'. Yet from my perspective they have equal (if not more) talents than I have, and equal (if not more opportunities), and I have equal (although different) life constraints.

Sorry. This is probably not helpful to anyone on here, but I've enjoyed musing on it smile

MarshaBrady Tue 21-Aug-12 10:02:53

This is a great thread and I agree with Xenia about attitude.

I admit I am still in the investment stage of one career even though I could earn a lot more on a day rate in another. But I'd actually rather stand alongside with the big players in major institutions then stand in the boardroom offering my thinking. But they are sort of connected.

It's much slower due to two dc but am getting there. The main thing is love what you do, and do it as well as you can.

MarshaBrady Tue 21-Aug-12 10:06:06

For the minute anyway. Good to be flexible.

Xenia Tue 21-Aug-12 10:28:29

venus, that is lovely. It's is not trumpet blowing. There are far too many threads from women on credit crunch issues - how can I save £1 a week etc and I think it is important women know that other women out there can do well so it lets them know what is possible. I also always wanted a family. At age 14 I was reading books about the best birth position even... but I always wanted to work full time and have a large family and be able to support it (probably because when I grew up women had started to do much better and I was virtually weaned on all those wonderful early feminists who were going on about women's earning power - I was lucky).

I also share that risk taking. I started to work for myself in 94. It could have failed. I try to spread the risk. i do a lot of different things.

One thin in venus' post is common to many who do well of both sexes - if you can go that extra mile. get up at 4.30am having arranged a baby sitter to get an early flight for a meeting abroad (I try to do as little of this as possile as my body likes hours of slee but I've done it when I have to) whereas some women say - I am a woman with a baby so I can only work 10 - 2 at most.

I agree with Marsha - love what you do. If you don't like it change it. I suspect people who carry on working at my age when perhaps they don['t need to tend to be doing it because they like it. Many serial entrepreneurs on selling the first business cannot just retire to the beach in Belize. It's dull. it's nice to have the beach there if you need it [ not resisting despite being told off about it above the inevitable mention of my tropical island here.. laughing....jsut to encourage the others...] but most of us need work we like as well.

In fact I'd better do some particularly the bits of work I don't want to do today so keep putting off. Also my sons are not even up yet. It is hugely easier with teenagers than babies. With a baby I would have been up with it from 6am having also breastfed it at mid night and 4am and probably had it screaming for an hour in the night too. Now I'm lucky if I see them by lunch time in holiday, dead easy, a piece of cake adn they are available to do things at work - at 11pm when our gas boiler man left I had at least 2 of them helping me and him lift massive old boiler structures.
I would add a random thought - keep fit, keep getting dirty, be prepared to carry heavy things, put your arm down a drain, be physical. I suspect if you move a lot (doesn't need a gym or m embership just moving stuff, carrying toddlers,) you keep your health and strength even at my age (50 exactly,just)

DolomitesDonkey Tue 21-Aug-12 10:41:44

max I agree that's a real danger (aiming for perfection before opening for business). I have doubted whether I "should" put my name to a skill when I don't have the paper qualification which "may" be attached to it. Then I came to the conclusion that I am fully capable - and I'm sure we've all experienced the academically qualified but hopeless.

My "ideas" are continuously in evolution and I'm most definitely flying by the seat of my pants.

But as others pointed out, a man wouldn't turn down the work or get the jitters.

Vaginald Tue 21-Aug-12 10:44:47

Wow, this thread has made me feel inspired!!!

recall Tue 21-Aug-12 11:28:40

I wanted to buy a pub, I went to the bank and they said no because I had no experience in that field. I bought an old trailer and sold burgers in a lay bye for 10 months. When I went back to the bank, I had a "successful mobile catering business" whacked on the business plan with slightly exaggerated accounts to prove it - I got the money- I bought the pub.

Whilst I was waiting for the purchase to go through, I got a job working full time in a shitty but busy old pub. Then when I opened my own pub I was fast behind the bar and the my new judgey customers seemed to get confidence from the fact that i ( appeared ) to know what I was doing.

So that was 18 months spent flipping burgers and being a bar maid. Then I got to own my own pub !

Don't accept no - find a way around it, and keep going like a dog with a bone.

recall Tue 21-Aug-12 11:31:26

The people who I said I was "mad" for driving so far also sniggered when I told them I used to have a burger van, and the same people look shocked when I tell them which pub I used to own ( it is well known round here )

twentyten Tue 21-Aug-12 11:34:28

happy birthday(belatedly) xenia!Really good to hear from you and venus-validates my thinking and approach.Refreshing!
Women so often "play small"..........

recall Tue 21-Aug-12 11:38:03

Another idea for making money fast with little initial outlay is by going on Shiply and delivering tat for people. Just register and bid for jobs, if you only have a car then bid for fragile items. Work out a route and go for it for a day, I reckon you could earn about 4-500 in a round trip if you got organised. Could even take the kids with you at a stretch although maybe not ideal. (my 5 year old would love it because she likes travelling with me, I think she sees it as an adventure and gets my full attention.)

NellyJob Tue 21-Aug-12 11:51:22

another one is instead of scrabbling around for cleaning jobs, which I know some mums do, start your own cleaning company, all it takes is a load of leaflets through doors and some cleaning stuff, and a vehicle I suppose.

EightiesChick Tue 21-Aug-12 12:12:06

Have skimmed this thread but will read properly later. On the subject of knowing your own worth and not letting yourself be sidelined at work, I read two books a few years ago that were really helpful:

Lois Frankel, Nice Girls Don't Get The Corner Office
Pat Heim, Hardball for Women

Note that these aren't about getting highly-paid jobs, but how to avoid some of the things women often do that minimise their contribution to the workplace and thus chances of advancement. One tip from Frankel I remember was that women often ask for much less in terms of departmental budget at work, thinking that saving the company money will earn them brownie points (Frankel says this often doesn't get noticed), whereas men say 'My dept is really important so we need X' and gets it because everyone thinks they're right. You have to be prepared to shout about your successes.

OP, someone's made a good point though that if you're planning on doing this without childcare, your options are limited either to what can be done with the kids around, or what you can do in the evenings/weekends and is preferably very portable.

Mumblepot how about telephone underwriting?

Some large life insurance companies are now offering a service where a nurse rings the client at an agreed time and spends 30 mins going through medical questionnaires with them.

Handier for the client than having to take time off to go for a medical, and better for the company than having a sales person with no medical qualifications asking sensitive medical questions.

They probably farm it out to large medical practices with links to life assurance, so you might have to cast around a bit to find the provider, but if you can guarantee quiet times to ring the clients, and provide confidentiality (i.e. keep the documentation locked up at home) this might be something quite well paid that you could do?

Oh the telephone underwriting can probably be done during the evening and at weekends because people don't like to have long convos about their health during their own working hours, which are usually office hours.

Separately I'm printing off this thread, there are some incredibly interesting posts on this about women and employment.

*printing off this thread for my DD!

Xenia Tue 21-Aug-12 12:41:50

Really good example - recall and getting her pub. Well done.

Agree with eighties too - my second daughter will be negotiating pay soon. It is very hard to argue what you are worth. One solution is get a job offer so you can say well X offered Y so I need Z to stay but then may be that alternative offer cannot be found. It will be interesting to see . I think when she got this job she accepted less than the agent expected and less than the man doing it before (who seems to have been sacked) and it was so much less the agent invited her to a champagne lunch as I think the agent got more because she could keep the difference. ANyway the main thin in this climate is for new graduated to get any jobs but it is fascinating for me to see her example in this recession. The books 80s suggest sound just the right kind of thing once you are in a job to help you improve your profile - your personal brand as it were.

Also make sure you are on Linked-in as that is what a lot of people check first. Try to look good on it.

The medical underwriting idea sounds good. It is not as expensive to market new businesses as it used to be now we have facebook, twitter and all the rest.

caramelwaffle Tue 21-Aug-12 14:44:17

Well done, recall.


I believe that a daughters - especially - education should be considered holistically e.g. learning to drive (essential so as not to close off future revenue streams/create a core sense of independence) so much so that I already have the money safely put aside for first car/driving lessons/insurance.

BrittaPerry Tue 21-Aug-12 14:51:02

I'm loving this thread. I think I have taken m eye off the ball recently, career wise, and I need t get back on it.

What I have been doing a lot of, or at least I was and need to do again, is constantly looking for opportunity. I have turned down positions on the board f national charities, posts where I could steer political thought and writing for national publications - all because I keep an eye on twitter, Email newsletters nd so on, and network even when I don't have something in particular in mind.

I was seriously ill last year and doctors didn't think I would have useful work for at least a decade. A year later, I have two jobs, my own business, doing two university courses, in a band, getting more politically active again and two small children. We're not rich, in fact our income is very small at the moment, but a year ago I could barely sting a sentence together. We're on our way up, too - since I started doing this direct sales business four months ago, my income has doubled every month and I intend to keep it doing that.

Going to save this thread for motivation :-)

Schoolworries Tue 21-Aug-12 15:26:34

Is there anyone on here who has set up a business with NO childcare help whats ever with very, very young children?

If so if you remember your rough timetable of the day to how you made it work?

DolomitesDonkey Tue 21-Aug-12 15:42:57

school I work full-time in paid employment and live abroad, so there is no "friends & family" childcare. When my kids are in creche, I'm working. They are 2.1 and 6 months.

I get up at 5 (or earlier if I wake) and I start with breaks obviously when they need me.

Then I do my full working day.

Then a family dinner and they're in bed by 6:30 - and I start working again.

I do try and have a technology free half day at the weekend because my husband would kill me to keep my ideas fresh.

My work is fairly flexible in that I work from home and I get over 40 days paid holiday a year - this gives me a lot of flexibility for starting out. But yes, I've sat here before with a baby on my knee typing one handed whilst the 2 year old unplugs the laptop cable. As xenia says, this stage is so short and they'll grow up and it'll all be easier.

Schoolworries Tue 21-Aug-12 15:53:27

The thing on my mind is that- yes, the are only little once... So why not make the most of this precious time before they are teenagers who want nothing to do with me! Its such a wonderful stage I love being with my dcs and taking them out to explore the world.

That is what I keep questioning myself with- Im only in my 20s, We dont need the money, I dont need to work towards promtions... I have the rest of my life to work... But I feel a bit of failure if I dont work too and I already have interest in what I have started .. Dilemma dilemma!

DolomitesDonkey Tue 21-Aug-12 16:16:02

I think you've answered your own question. Right now you're not interested.

Schoolworries Tue 21-Aug-12 16:22:04

I never said I wasnt interested.

If I wasnt I would be on this thread! I wouldnt have just sent 3 business emails today.

I said Im wondering if the extra stress and sacrifice is worth it while I have such young children and no childcare at all. Im wondering if its even realistic.

Im sure mine in a common dilemma especially in these modern times.

WilfSell Tue 21-Aug-12 17:09:28

I'm really interested in this. I have long thought I should be an entrepreneur, got lots of ADD traits ideas and flexibility, but no specific ideas yet grin - well I did have one but funnily enough the minute I thought of it, everyone else did too and in any case it was clothing manufacture and I realised a. how much capital I would need when I have precisely none, and b. how much the garment industry is a completely closed shop if you don't have contacts. That and I knew NOTHING about it. But I might start a 'How to become an entrepreneur' thread - will y'all join me over there...?

recall Tue 21-Aug-12 17:09:44

schoolworries I run my business with no childcare, my 3 year old goes to pre school on tuesday and wednesday morning and all day thursday, but to be honest this is sometimes more of a hinderance because I am in and out of the car, my 5 year old is at school so on tuesdays and wednesdays I have a double school run. I see pre school as more of an education thing than child care IYSWIM. I still have the two year old with me.

I usually tackle my e mails at night. I have to plan a route during the week that I do when I get a quiet couple of hours. Then Friday at 5pm, when my DH finishes work I shoot off and return Sunday night, or sometimes in the early hours of Monday morning. The worse thing is taking phone calls from customers, I have to run into the spare room and shut the door to reduce the noise. I do get a bit resentful about this because my DH has the luxury of his own quiet office and 8 hours a day that are just for him to concentrate on work with no children, and yet I earn more than him.

I am crap at bookeeping, so I pay one of the Mum's at my DD's school to do all that and my tax return etc, and I have a cleaner for 4 hours a week.

I am haphazard and think I loose a fair amount of business because I can't focus, I just do what I can and will pick it up when they are all at school in a couple of years. I reckon I will double what I am doing now, because I have had to stop advertising. When my advert is live on google adwords, I can't keep up with demand. I am itching to go for it !

recall Tue 21-Aug-12 17:39:03

schoolworries why do you feel a failure if you don't work too ? My neighbour is the same, she wants to get back to work now to regain feelings of self worth. Please don't feel a failure for not working, you aren't defined by it, and your children will benefit so much from your time with them now.

My job satisfaction starts and ends in the bank, and I fill it with cash by hook or by crook grin ( although I do love what I do, i think that helps )

Xenia Tue 21-Aug-12 18:02:15

I don't the thread is about making people feel they should work in an income generating way, but I think most men and women even with small babies orefer to keep at least some work going. For us it worked because we both worked full time and it was clear I would earn more so before we even married we agreed if one career had to go and finding childcare did not work out then it woudl be his not mine. Obviousyl that makes things a lot easier for a woman and if it's the other way round. On the other hand it does put more pressure on you not that that ever bothered me and I ended up earning 10x what my chidlren's father did not that that mattered eithere as everything was always shared or joint whether that was being up for 2 hours a night with a screaming baby or washing the nappies, cleaning the loo.

I was certainly in my early 20s as schoolw was when working full time and I relaly don't think 20 years on in any way our children have suffered. I don't feel I missed out because we both made it a priority to maximise time at home with them even if that meant doing less work. In fact only now 20 years on when the youngest are leaving prep school am I feeling I have all the time for work and ideas people without children have and that is despite working full time without a break since 83.

On the question of can you work in the house with babies around I think it depends on the child and the type of work. I certainly wrote books at home at weekends but that would have been when their father was looking after the children or they were asleep. (If we are adding to my list of many failures scattered about this thread I am happy to add that no book has ever made much mnoey at all although it seems to make people think I am expert in my field; never a money spinner in my case).

I have certainly breastfed one of the twins when they were little whilst taking a work call which is quite tricky and not ideal and I remember the day after they were born. I was here at home alone (I never seemed in my life to get periods of being looked after my family or anyone but perhaps that is why I am so strong) and it was the weekend the following day although even then their father was working and I remember a very kind person who was here whilst he was teaching her child bought me a basket of food, cheese etc and it was so hard for me to find time to buy food and eat it with new twins - very kind of her)... anyway so I had bought a phone extension as the office number only rings upstairs and I had worried I'd need a C section or be ill or something but in fact I had vaginal natural births at exactly 40 weeks (very rare for twins)... and I ended up going downstairs when a few work calls came in. I suspec tthat requirement to go up and down stairs is the kind of thing which helps women get back into good health after birth and those who take to their bed as an invalid for 3 weeks after recover much worse which is why doctors change adviced in the UK from, decades ago, to say get up fairly soon. so may be I benefited from that.

Not quite sure how I got on to all that.

WilfSell Tue 21-Aug-12 18:14:18

I have started another thread for women thinking of starting up in their own business here and maybe those of you who already have would be willing to tell us about all the banana skins, pitfalls and stupid decisions we're likely to make...

Xenia Wed 22-Aug-12 13:04:11
ByTheWay1 Wed 22-Aug-12 13:51:34

OP - my older sister works as a self employed specialist babysitter - she works 3 evenings a week and two Sundays a month - she works with families who have special care requirements. She was a nurse before her own kids came along. Her hubby works weekdays 9-6.

She earns £350 a day for the Sundays and £100 each for the evenings (7 til midnight). She has to pay her own taxes/insurance etc, but still clears around £1k per month for relatively little upset to the household, no childcare required.

naturalbaby Wed 22-Aug-12 14:09:36

bytheway1 that sounds perfect (for me right now). Can I ask how she made contact with the families to start with?

ByTheWay1 Wed 22-Aug-12 14:28:44

Hi naturalbaby - she advertised in the local Answers magazine and the parish magazine, she put her name on every post office/supermarket and newsagents locally - that way she gained the 3 separate evenings a week .

She spoke to her local social services about respite care - they then enquired with her about the possibilities of providing care in the home for a family who wanted the 2 Sundays a month - they provided the family with her number and the family negotiated privately with her as they did not qualify for state funding.

She recently had enquiries from a national babysitting company to provide some specialist care for them as they are getting more requests from parents with special care needs, but she has put them on the back burner as she currently works the hours she wants to....

There certainly seems to be plenty of need out there.

CondoleezzaRiceKrispies Wed 22-Aug-12 14:30:12

All food for thought here. grin

I stupidly chose a degree based on how much I liked the subject, rather than the earnings potential. What do those of us do who find ourselves in a lowly paid industry without the options of offering consultancy work?

It seems it's much easier to get in the big bucks if you're already qualified in, for example, law or medicine.

DolomitesDonkey Wed 22-Aug-12 14:39:22

Condoleezza Come over to the entrepreneurs and we'll thrash out some ideas for you. Michelle Mone has done alright out of bras and I'm guessing you own a set of boobs! wink

ByTheWay1 Wed 22-Aug-12 14:51:11

If you are good at what you do you can always teach others how to do what you do.....

Office work for instance - there are people wanting training in microsoft office products/ sage / filing systems whatever.. if you can do it, it is not a big step up to teach others how to do it. Advertise as "helping mums back to work" or "upgrade your skills as a student looking for work" etc.....

Provide CV services - people email their CV, you give advice a bit of an update, tweaking for individual jobs etc.....

Just need to think of something you know that other people need to know...

We had a local mum set up "decorate-your-cupcake classes" - she is bowled over by the response - especially by older kids in the holidays.

Another playground mum has set up a "running in your lunch-break" business - takes running groups from the local library on a circuit - and gains £20-£40 a day for something she does every lunchtime anyhow

CondoleezzaRiceKrispies Wed 22-Aug-12 15:48:50

My bosoms are legendary, thank you Dolomites. grin

A problem for me is that I don't want to work in education, I was teaching alongside my freelance work for a long time and I can't bear the thought of teaching anyone to do anything again!

Sorry for the hijack OP, just feeling similarly bewildered!

ByTheWay1 Wed 22-Aug-12 15:58:10

"My bosoms are legendary"

Welllllll - I know some men who would pay lots....

How about life modelling for local artists and photographers .... lol

bawabod Wed 22-Aug-12 16:34:10

Xenia you are right we as women do ourselves down, I have a good class degree in building stopped my career for my kids have since done part time work as a cleaner shop assistant and now part time in IT. I confess my typing skills amount to one finger but I look for jobs that might suit my basic admin skills and yet deep down I know I can do so much more.And yet I have a DD who I am constantly emphasising career and financial independence to. ie the Do what I say not what I do mantra !! this chat has given me food for thought

CondoleezzaRiceKrispies Wed 22-Aug-12 16:37:10

Done that, bytheway1. grin Sadly it doesn't quite pay the magic grand a day!

ByTheWay1 Wed 22-Aug-12 16:40:48

grin - I wouldn't have the nerve CondoleezzaRiceKrispies..... my bosoms are merely magnificent - not legendary!

Silibilimili Wed 22-Aug-12 16:41:14

Love how this thread has turned out. Inspiring ladies! Marking my place to read at leisure.

CondoleezzaRiceKrispies Wed 22-Aug-12 17:01:30

Me too. Apologies for my bosoms muscling their way in.
I need to re-read this for inspiration myself, in a bit of a funk about my lack of prospects.

recall Wed 22-Aug-12 19:04:08

Another idea I have, but not for me, more for the accountant/bookeepers. offering people a service to manage their personal finances. I personally am crap at this, and tend to bury my head in the sand. I would pay someone to come and initially sort them out, and then to manage them. The money I would save on fines and charges would easily pay for such a service.

caramelwaffle Wed 22-Aug-12 20:24:53

Good idea recall: like home decluttering, but for your finances.

Xenia Wed 22-Aug-12 20:27:35

Yes,home decluttering can be good - from memory something like £600 a day..pause, ah am wrong - this one is £155 for 4 hours so that is more like £300 a day but still better than £6 an hour minimum wage -

There is certainly demand for concierge type services. Quintessentially was an initially a start up which did rather well.

DolomitesDonkey Wed 22-Aug-12 20:32:44

Definitely a need for concierge type services if anyone's living somewhere like Brussels/Frankfurt/Paris. Thousands upon thousands of expats don't know who to call to set up cable TV and certainly don't want to sit and wait for an engineer to come and flick a switch.

CondoleezzaRiceKrispies Wed 22-Aug-12 20:33:41

What do you mean by concierge services? Like a PA?

CondoleezzaRiceKrispies Wed 22-Aug-12 20:35:34

X posted with Dolomites.

Is there much call for that sort of thing outside wealthy enclaves I wonder...
<loves problem solving for other people>

Xenia Wed 22-Aug-12 21:08:20

The point is you target wealthy enclaves whatever business you choose if you want money. Any service or goods which is aimed at people with no money is not going to make you very much. As you can hire concierges who operate from India (read I think it is Tim Ferris' book on the 4 hour working week on this) etc I am sure it can be done from a council estate in Scotland.

The principle is that people like I am have more money than time. So something that saves us time is hugely valuable. If I earn £240 an hour and you spend an hour finding a dress on line which I saw in a magazine at the weekend and get it bought for me, I might pay you £20 for that hour of your time because in that period I earned £220 etc etc etc

Even at cheaper levels takme any busy working mother or father we will all have a heap of jobs we don't want to do or cannot find time to do which prays on our minds. I dont' have too many as I keep on top of things and have children who work for me who do a lot of that stuff now but I have had periods particularly when we had small babies when I did. Someone comes in and say - tidies all your cupboards or buys all the school uniform for you. We found someone who would sew school unifiorm labels on an entire new school outfit for 2 chidlren one year for example. The concierge services will typically do just about anything you want them to do from finding you theatre tickets to sending someone round to tidy all your cupboards. They can be very useful. I used Quinessentially years ago. I remember they fixed up a weekend ski trip to Gstaad for my older daughter and me although these days the internet makes something like that pretty easy to organise yourself. Anyway it is just another idea. Ideally you get your customers to pay a monthly fee so they are always paying you.

caramelwaffle Wed 22-Aug-12 21:12:35

Informative link Xenia Thank you.

I'm slowly learning that it is better to start a business and pitch higher than you may have initially thought yourself capable of i.e. Decluttering business to many, as opposed to a lone cleaner (although lone cleaner would be good for keeping cash flow revenues going)

Always pitch yourself higher: I recently started offering a service, and my local - well, competitors - were all offering at a top asking price of X amount (lets say £700). I thought, "No. I need more" so remembered, very vividly, the words of Donald Trump, from a documentary I watched who, in a falling market in his field (when everyone was asking for lower prices) PUT UP the asking price of what he wanted - and got what he asked for!

I did the same, took a risk (a BIG risk for me - failure was NOT an option) put my prices well over and above what others were asking...and people bit my hand off. Had to turn down many requests.
Soon noticed my competitors soon followed my suit.

Still - this is only keeping me treading water...

caramelwaffle Wed 22-Aug-12 21:25:46

Goodness. That was a bit garbled. Am watching Midsomer Murders (that's my excuse)

naturalbaby Wed 22-Aug-12 21:29:41

I can't wait till my children can work for me!
Thanks bytheway1, that's exactly what I was planning a while ago. I'm going to register as a childminder and try to focus on children with additional needs so need to get back to it to start making contacts again.

I'm also looking into running a pre school activity class and thinking about how I can diversify a bit to tap into more of a niche market as there are more than enough activities to choose form locally. I'm not great at networking but can see that's what's going to further my income so have a lot of work to do.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Wed 22-Aug-12 21:36:12

This really is a fascinating thread. I've been lurking (and learning) all week, as I'd love to start working for myself. Like Condoleeza I did a degree in something that interested me without ever considering what my earning potential would be afterwards and after graduating I kind of fell into what I do now (work pt in marketing/advertising). I'm a lone parent and don't receive maintenance so really need to increase my income, however I feel like I don't have any actual skills or talents that I can utilise, unlike the really talented physios, lawyers, nurses, designers etc on this thread.

If I worked from home alongside my current job, I'd also worry about how it would affect the WTC and the bit of HB that I currently receive. I'd have no idea how much I would earn working from home in the future so wouldn't know what to tell the council/Tax credits people so they know what (if anything) to pay me for HB and WTC. I wouldn't want to have my benefits taken off me then not make any money from the home business, if that makes sense which it doesn't, even to me hmm.

So my obstacles to earning additional income are 1/ no idea what to do (bit of a biggie, that one grin), and 2/ how it will affect my benefits. Any advice gratefully received <hopeful>.

WilfSell Wed 22-Aug-12 21:58:29

Come and join us on the entrepreneur's thread... But since we're pitching ideas for other people here, I've often wondered why local childminders and cleaners don't market their services more effectively and with more diversity to make themselves more money.

For example, for me as a WOHP, I have often had the need of emergency childcare, for those instances when the children are not so ill to need me at their side, but when we really can't get out of something at work. Someone doing babysitting/childminding anyway could charge a premium amount for this and marketed to enclaves of middle class women, I'm sure it could work...

I also don't think there are nearly enough mobile beauty/hair people who are of a high enough quality, and marketed properly in my area (tip: if you want me to buy your mobile services from a website, please post photos of your recent work!). I need you to come to my office, in my lunch hour; or come on Sat morning to do me and all the kids! I pay a lot for good hair and treatments but don't have so much time to go to the salon. But most mobile services are shite IME (and I've tried a few)...

DolomitesDonkey Wed 22-Aug-12 22:02:40

Talking of concierge/child minding. I'm supposed to be away on business next week - the trip has been postponed a fortnight and it's totally fucked up our situation - my husband works shifts, he's out of the country with the other kid etc., etc. I would love to be able to call an emergency high-quality child-minder and say "I really need to drop him off at 5am tuesday week" or something like that. How about someone so reliable that you can call from the office and have them pick up the sick child from creche/school?

As far as working tax credits go, don't quote me on this but I believe if you "say" you work a certain number of hours on your business you're entitled to the full whack even if you're not making big money. Ask on mse for clarification.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Wed 22-Aug-12 22:46:19

Good idea Dolomites, MSE is a mine of information on WTCs etc - don't know why I didn't think of it myself hmm. I think you could be right in that it's more about the number of hours you work, although I know that at the end of the tax year when you renew your WTCs you have to tell them what you earned the tax year just gone and they base your WTCs for the current year on your earnings from the previous year. I'm just unsure whether earning with my employer and earning as SE would makes things messy. Although I expect many people start out like that, doing SE work on the side while being employed. So much to think about, before I've even thought about WHAT to do.

CondoleezzaRiceKrispies Thu 23-Aug-12 07:36:49

I LOVE the idea of finding someone a dress they've seen in a magazine!
<frustrated detective>

I'm not quite in a council estate in Scotland, but not far off. Tell me, does your ability to provide a good concierge service depend heavily on local knowledge? I'm thinking of things like restaurant bookings and theatre trips. Just wondering how the company based in India manage to make it work.

I did some PA type work a while ago, and do really enjoy problem solving for other people.

naturalbaby Thu 23-Aug-12 08:26:24

As a future childminder I'm taking notes! I've already wondered about offering more than just basic childminding e.g if I'm out running my own errands with your child then can I add a couple of your jobs to my list.

DolomitesDonkey Thu 23-Aug-12 08:37:23

condy The same way everyone else does, the power of google and readying & analysing reviews. Along the shopping theme - I see plenty on mn of busy women with lots of cash but time restraints who are pregnant and want "the very best" but don't know what they should buy and certainly don't have the time to stand in the queue at Mama's & Papa's and argue the toss over a colour. A bespoke "let me get everything you need" service might work - e.g., after first finding out their favourite colours and perhaps even favourite shops you offer 2 travel-systems in 2 colours each - they simply tick the box. You place the order and arrange delivery. All she has to do is actually have the baby.

CondoleezzaRiceKrispies Thu 23-Aug-12 09:25:22

That's interesting, I'd have thought that reading google reviews was something that everyone could do, and local knowledge would be what people would be after. Just goes to show what I know! grin

How do things work legally with the 'shopping on behalf of someone else' idea? Would I pay and be reimbursed? Or do they hand over their card details? Just wondering about things like faulty goods, or someone just not liking something.

All very intriguing.

Xenia Thu 23-Aug-12 10:02:50

I think Konda's concierge work would need SoftKitty's advertising skills. In some ways advertisign is the key to it all, the best skill to have. Without anyone knowing you exist yocu an be the best surgeon or nurse or pilot in the land but the work will not pour in.

I am not sure about shopping for someone else. You can either be like Amazon - sell as dealer/principal/supplier - customer contract with amazon or else amazonmarketplace - (Amazon as agent in the middle contract of sale between seller of second hand books and ultimate customer). I would have thought if you were going to do someone's shopping you would send them a link. A few times I have seen something I'd like to buy, had a quick look on line not, found it and given up due to lack of time. Having someone who is able to find it woudl be great although I hardly spend anything and am not very consumerish minded so I am just about the worst person on a marketing list for tha tkind of thing - replace my knickers when the holes in them are large even by my standards rather than had 50 sets of pristine agent provocateur.

Xenia Thu 23-Aug-12 10:04:04

The other point I meant to make was on SoftK's which is a massive problem for people who want to do better for themselves but are on benefits. I have never had a benefit or a tax credit or even maternity pay in my whole life (although I have had child benefit) so I have never been caught in any kind of trap that if I try to do better for myself and my chidlren and work harder then the state takes money away from me. It is appalling how it is currently structured and no Government seems able to produce an answer.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Thu 23-Aug-12 17:27:59

I'm not even on full benefits - I don't get income support or anything like that - and it's hard enough for me trying to work out what the best thing is to do. God knows how people who are unemployed and on full benefits go about bettering themselves when they know they'll lose money by working, but (if they work for themselves) have no guarantee that they'll make much money. It's a difficult obstacle to overcome.

Xenia Thu 23-Aug-12 17:50:47

I thihnk most of the people ont he £1k a day and the entrepreneur threads probably live on their husband's income or already earn more than to entitle them to benefits so the issue has not come up yet but it is a big problem unless someone can be sure their business will from day one make than benefits are and continue to do so.

How do the unemployed do it? Some have to go on and then off benefits which is very difficult. Huge numbers just try the Ebay selling or whatever and hope the authorities do not notice and then once they are making a lot give up the benefits but that is illegal. Iaian Duncan Smith is trying to make the new universal benefit work better in this regard but I think it still takes a huge % of every pound earned. I suppose if a company earns the profits and the owner does not draw them out then that is not the individual's money. I am certainly not a benefits expert but you are only taxed on income you have. If you plough every penny back for 2 years and never take it out of a separate limited company it won't be your money as you have had no salary or dividends.

iamarobot Thu 23-Aug-12 18:31:27

Great thread. Very positive.

So for someone who is a Mensa member but has few qualifications, what would be a good idea?

Xenia Thu 23-Aug-12 18:36:55

I have rambled on a lot on this thread. Did I suggest mensa members do best in business? You certainly need to be quite clever and my score was 158 at home and 152 in their controlled conditions. I would have thought having a high IQ is going to translate into more likely to bhe successful than someone with an IQ of say 80 simply because they are faster and know more and can think of ideas.

Most customers want things done on time and efficiently. You have to be fairly organised and bright to do that. Either if you are very clever get good qualifications which is why the children of the bright tend to get initial qualifications as lawyers, accountants, doctors etc as very few people are bright enough to get those, even if those people then decided to import pharmaceuticals or set up a facebook to make their money. That is more advice for our chidlren. For someone older you are probably better off just starting up some kind of niche business. I suppose if you are quite bright and can convince other parents of that you could set up a tutoring agency. This is one which I think was a start up by new graduates. I cannot find the costs but presumably soething like £45 and hour and one would assume half goes to the agency - that is a total guess. In other words if you have a load of people under you like a pyramid - something I have never managed, more fool me, who do the work and you manage them and keep a lot of the turnover as your profit you tend to make more money.

DolomitesDonkey Thu 23-Aug-12 19:24:34

Iamarobot Like you, I appear to have the neurons functioning - what I was unable to do (personal circumstances) was leave university with a degree - despite spending 4 years there. Ah well, never mind. Feeling increasingly unfulfilled over the years I found myself applying for Cambridge (and getting the nod) and for things like Physics degrees - simply to prove that I "could" - although I still have little real ambition academically and until i) I have the funds to do it and ii) I'm able to find a subject which inspires me, then it does seem a little <badoom-tish> academic.

Nonetheless, what I do have is a brain which is highly analytical and can cut to the chase and this is where I intend to make my cash - by providing solutions.

Lack of certain specific academic qualifications will hinder us in some spheres - e.g., we'll not be opening our own surgical suite on Harley St any time soon - but it doesn't mean we're condemned to a life of mediocrity and under-achievement!

Xenia Thu 23-Aug-12 20:19:53

A lot of acadmeics spend years getting PhDs but never earn much more than peanuts. I don't think you need a degree to make £1k a day although it will certainly help.

Actually you can open a surgical suite in Harley St. I even looked at that. There are loads of people who rent rooms there to provide things like therapies, weight loss clinics (lots of money is in helping fat rich women get thin) and you could hire the room and pay the therapist and keep some of the profit etc.

Over nearly 30 y ears I have seen people make money in so many different fields from selling of toys to hair pieces to supermarkets.

HoleyGhost Thu 23-Aug-12 22:45:58

Enjoying a fulfilling career of some kind while caring for small children is tough going, but worth it for the longer term.

For a lot of us, it is about keeping things ticking over until we have the time and energy to launch our own businesses. I am gaining experience in a niche field, in a few years I will have the industry knowledge and contacts I need. It is a long game.

WilfSell Thu 23-Aug-12 23:44:31

Speaking as someone with some expertise in this field, the ageing population IS going to be a moneyspinner imminently, so if you can think of service ageing babyboomers need, you're well away.

The person who invents the hearing aid that can't been seen and works well will totally clean up, as deafness is INCREASING with each generation. The RNID ran a promotion a few years ago to 'coolify' the hearing aid (as has happened with glasses) but it hasn't really taken off yet. Some combination of aesthetics and technology that works will be a massive seller.

Equally, the property developer who realises that many older people don't want to live in enclaves with people they have nothing in common with. that will make squillions too.

I could possibly sell my services in marketing knowledge in this field perhaps.... hmmm.

Xenia Fri 24-Aug-12 08:53:09

The people I have known who have made a lot of mnoey who did not have qualifications tend to do something like find a factory in China or Russia and import - on other words make a mark up. Products like body building substances (awful stuff) are very popular with men and have a msasive mark up. Popcorn in cinemas holds the record 1000x mark up on original cost price.

Plenty of men and women forge ahead with careers whilst having small children under 3 as they have a nursery place or a child minder or daily or live in nanny.

designerbaby Fri 24-Aug-12 12:44:58

This is a fascinating thread.

Xenia. I used to think you were a bit, well... difficult, and we've had our differences. Now I think I have a bit of a girl-crush. Sorry...

One the 'women undervaluing themselves' thing...

I set up my own business, having left the design consultancy I'd been at for 10 years, and after 16 years in the industry. I have two daughters – aged four and a half and a bit over two.

I left for many reasons – some involving flexibility, commuting and availability for children. Some involving feeling sidelined and undervalued – I had 16 years top notch experience, was used to working at a senior creative level but after two bouts of maternity leave and working 3/4 days week... well, the design company I worked for wanted to, in theory, make it work, but in practice couldn't/didn't.

So I joined an ex colleague in a studio space 5 minutes from my home, continued to work for the company I had just left on a project where I had a good relationship with the client, but freelance and from my own studio. This got me going... but I fretted about the phone never ringing and my career going tits-up. (Pun intended).

As it transpires the MD of the company I used to work for has referred some clients my way, various ex-colleagues (strategy directors, etc.) and ex-clients, who are doing new things, have heard I'm freelance at gotten in touch.

My studio-colleague and I have had lots of discussions where he has urged me not to undervalue my skill/talent/experience. I am now charging between 2-3 times what I was per day when I started and I have a couple of jobs paying me £1k a day.

A copywriter I have worked with a lot gave me some advice:

"When you're telling a client your fees, they should squeak and then say yes. If they don't squeak, you're not charging enough. If they squeak and say no, you're charging too much."

I am also finding that if clients are paying a decent amount of money for your time they are more likely to take notice of what you're saying – meaning you – and they – get better results from it.

I am inundated with work. The pipeline looks strong. I am considering taking on a full time mid-weight designer to help, and my studio-colleague and I are considering formalising our working relationship in order to better manage both the volume of work and the peaks and troughs of small-business life.

Personally I feel more fulfilled, my self-esteem is on the up... professionally I'm doing better, more interesting work, and getting paid more for it.

I'm working my tail off. But I'm doing it on my own terms, and for my own profit – and that makes ALL the difference.

I think Xenia you make a really good point about women tending to undervalue themselves, while men tend to do the opposite. I am fortunate that the men I'm working with are encouraging me to view myself the way they do... "I'm earning X. I think I'm worth it. I think you're worth it too – don't sell yourself short." and "Designerbaby, I'm putting your day rate as £1,000. Are you ok with that?"

The challenge is to believe that you're worth that... Even when clients seem to think so and are quite happy to pay that. I know I add value for my clients, but still, it's a mindset adjustment...


ClaraDeLaNoche Fri 24-Aug-12 12:53:54

Am loving this thread and very interested in the squeaking aspect of cost per diem.

Yesterday I quoted £700 for a day. Client squeaked and said 'that sounds very reasonable' Damn it, I thought, should have gone higher. But the reason why I picked that price was because last week I lost out on a tender where I pitched at £600 per day and lost on the basis that the winner's cost was "significantly" lower.

Anybody feel that they'd rather have days booked at a reduced rate than fewer days at proper rate? Or does that devalue you? XENIA help me please!

designerbaby Fri 24-Aug-12 13:22:55

I've thought about this Clara...

It depends, doesn't it.

Trouble is, when you quote a lower rate to a client you can never, or not easily, then quote a higher rate...

If you're busy, you want the best paying work, rather than killing yourself for the lower-end stuff. Plus I have no desire just to come into work for the sake of it. It's not like i have nothing else to do with my time...

But if you're quiet, you need to pay the bills...

I've decided it's almost impossible to have a blanket rule. I have a rate I do not go below but that's as far as it goes. As for pricing I have to go on a job-by-job basis... and weigh up the pros and cons of the job and the individual circumstances at the time.

I am also trying to get away from a day rate charging basis, rather working out for myself what it will take – how much of my time, how much of a junior/midweight's time – how much does that come to... And then charging for the stages of the job.

That way I have a bit more flexibility to tweak it down the line... And I can lower the cost for that particular job, if I really want to do it and the client is baulking at the costs, without committing myself to a lower day rate ad infinitum.

Some clients want a day-rate breakdown though, some don't.

I think it may always be a bit variable... And I'm sort of ok with that, actually...


ClaraDeLaNoche Fri 24-Aug-12 13:50:36

Thanks for your response db.

Some of my competitors go in at half the daily rate, but at double the time which I don't like doing in case I look like a doser. You're right, will think more about fixed price. But as most of my clients are public sector they are very keen on breakdowns of cost as opposed to outputs.

Xenia Fri 24-Aug-12 13:57:44

First of all db is a really good example to everyone, well done.

On the how to set rates point I do not really know. I think my older daughter costs more to customers than I do after 20+ years at it (she doesn't of course keep what she's charged at as she's an employee). I have a rate on my website so it's not secret and I don't vary it much for people and it's public but that won't work in all sectors and most work people want the cost not the daily or hourly rate. It depends what work you do.

I do spend quite a bit of time passing people to others who are cheaper or just giving a quick email reply to someone about how they could do something themselves rather than use me and that seems to work as they remember you as helpful (although you don't want to be spending all day doing that or you'd never make any money) and I have sum in mind I feel happy if I've made each day as I've bills to pay and I look I do charts every week of receipts and earnings and monthly and annually and I look both at what is billed but also what is paid as it is only what is paid which really matters.

I agree with the comment below that once you come down to a particularly lower rate it's hard to get up higher. i agreed a rate to record some stuff and said I woudl only do it here adn XYZ was the rate and that worked well (no travelling time). I did something similar for someone else recently for a bit less and slightly regretted it. I also said this year I woudl not do some stuff miles from London unless the pay reflected the fact it was double the time (and I was not being paid double the London fee) and that felt in a sense like burning pound notes (turning work away) but I am happy enough there is other work to do at better rates. If I did not I would not have rejected that other work I suppose that involvse lots of travelling. I've not rejectedit - I've said I will do it at double the rate.

FaintingGoat Sun 26-Aug-12 11:51:18

Am only half way through the thread but am finding it very interesting and inspiring! I'm currently at home with DD (1yo) and am looking at ways to bring in some money myself, as an alternative to going back out to a formal job. I have some accountancy experience although am not fully trained, so am thinking about maybe freelance book keeping. I also get a little bit of money from crafts, which mainly goes to fund my hobbies, but from what I've read of the thread so far, a lot comes down to putting the hours in. If I got up a bit earlier I could squeeze in an hour before DD wakes up, when I'm fresh and energetic, rather than waiting til she's in bed and I'm knackered and just want to veg on the sofa. It is hard to motivate yourself to start work and be creative at the end of the day.

Thanks for the excellent advice and benefit of your experience, Xenia

KinkyDorito Sun 26-Aug-12 12:48:36

I will happily work long hours (I already do). What I am lacking in is inspiration and, if I'm honest, the belief that what I produce will be worth serious money. This thread has rung so many bells with me: undervalued, low expectations of myself, family getting judgey if I express a wish to pursue my career on top of responsibility to my children (not DH though: he is supportive of me, and I already out-earn him).

I think I lack confidence, and I need to pick an idea and stick at it.

At the moment, I am trying to make extra cash as my income has been compromised over the past few months because of DDs illness (she has cancer). It feels like everything has ground to a halt. I have gone from finally making my mark at work to my job being at risk. I need extra cash, and I'm doing things like ebay and surveys, all the time wishing I could just come up with something worth doing with decent returns.

When she finishes treatment, I want to try and make headway with work again, and I am thinking about doing some heavy reading round certain niche areas of my job to try and be more specialist. However, I doubt the financial rewards will be there and I could really do with something more. I won't lie: I want my family and I to live a very comfortable life.

I will keep watching this thread with interest. And I am refreshed by being able to say that I need work, I like work and I like making money without feeling like a traitor to my children. Thank you to the contributors so far.

Xenia Sun 26-Aug-12 22:26:54

KD, sorry about your sick child. Nothing matters like that kind of thing.

There was a mumsnetter with a lot of buy to let properties. That is another route for some people. I was really surprised by the maths I was doing with one of my off spring the other week - the interest was about 50% of the rent that would be generated. It may depend where you live etc. Also that requires some capital and plenty of people think property prices will drop although probably not averaged over a 40 year period of holding them.

A lot of people on the thread who are near the £1k a day mark tend to have a skill no one else has so they might an IT consultant and no one writes source code as well as they do or whatever it might be. Being more specialist certainly seems to pay off.

On FG's bookkeeping idea that sounds good. Presumably the best money is in giving complex tax law advice. Could you not learn about that which is much more likely to yield money. I was doing something related to someone who does book keeping stuff this week and they specifically do not do the more complex advice and I was sitting there thinking - you are turning away the really interesting well paid stuff (?), presumably because they had not learned the tax rules.

duchesse Sun 26-Aug-12 23:28:04

Yes to raising your price rather than refusing work. I once earned £800 in one night 11pm-7am doing an overnight translation*- I didn't really want to work overnight but I knew they were desperate (the document was needed in court the next morning) and they had no choice, so I just trebled my usual rate- twice the rate for a rush job, three times for rush + overnight. Seemed fair to me. If they'd said no I would have a good night's sleep and wouldn't have been any worse off.

*Sadly doesn't happen often.

DolomitesDonkey Mon 27-Aug-12 04:40:37

It's getting harder and harder to earn 1k a day as an IT consultant. It was pretty easy in the late-90s but has become progressively harder. I used to be a "code monkey" and have found my roles being systematically replaced by workers from the sub-continent who will work for $15 an hour (if that). Whilst I have interviewed people I've gone on to pay 1000 a day within the last few years, they have largely been enormously well-known entities within their field (geek hero worship) - and, without putting too fine a point on it - will have been at this stuff since teens, or perhaps even before. To put it in to context I started programming in 1981 aged 7 on my parents' ZX81 - and I'm still not that great a coder. The ones who are truly excellent live and breathe it - and, you would likely have discovered your talents before if it was going to work for you. Money can be made however if you're highly technology literate yet able to talk to what I like to call "real people" and I'm finding that (in the West), the emphasis is moving away from pure coding/networking skills and more in to "middle-management". Tides may turn of course but I shall not be encouring my children in to a line of work which can be done remotely by cheap labour.

Xenia Mon 27-Aug-12 14:05:30

Yes, I know someone who only interviews thosee with PhDs from Cambridge and they say only 1 in 100 even of those are able to programme with the skills they need as a company.

FaintingGoat Mon 27-Aug-12 19:38:08

Xenia As it stands right now I could probably just do basic bookkeeping, but that would obviously be a start in terms of bringing in some money. I have been thinking about resuming my studies in order to up my earning potential. I am quite interested in forensic accounting (digging about in people's accounts to find where they've hidden the naughty money!) so that could be worth looking at.

Xenia Mon 27-Aug-12 19:55:59

I think that would be a really good market to go into. You could do those hiding money off shore, you could specialise in high end divorces even and there is an accountant or tax lawyer who is oneo f the best at tracking monies from African dictators which are stolen from the state and end up in Switzerland - one of the best. Very interesting work.

I have just been delving into someone (bit like being an investigator) in the last hour and it is amazing what you can find on line if you know where to look. I love it when I do that kind of thing. I particularly adored winning a tax prize when just about everyone else doing it was male. I beat everyone of them although I am certainly not a tax person now.

Lotsofchooks Wed 29-Aug-12 17:13:44

I think this is a great and inspiring thread which has given me some further ideas to what I am thinking of starting. The beauty of this thread is that I have no one 'independent and critical' to ask if viable, so that's where MNetters come in!

I'm not really qualified to 'do' anything, however I have successfully got my older children through Uni (2:1 Science degree) and just about to start Uni (3 x A*), I'm a governor in a school, reasonably intelligent, analytical, a question asker, good problem solver & assertive.

My OH says I should look for gaps in provision - so my idea is to be that extra pair of hands. We've had hardly any help from parents,so know how useful it can be - from babysitting in the evenings or during the day if parents have appointments (mature, rather than asking a teenager), or if they need help with everyday things, waiting in for a parcel/tradesman this also led me onto thinking the same with older people who wanted to go shopping, a companion or an advocate. We are in the NW, so don't know whether people would be up for this type of service. I would like to stress that I'm not a cleaner or child minder, more light duties and babysitting as already written.

Please don't be polite, be realistic - would you pay for something like this?

PS I am CRB checked and First Aid trained.

DolomitesDonkey Wed 29-Aug-12 17:22:30

Yes, I would. But can I add that as you've had the "smarts" to see this gap and know what needs doing - why should you be the one doing it for ten quid an hour? Run the damned thing! You can pay someone else 7 quid an hour to wait for the washing machine man whilst you man "the office" and arrange more jobs.

Lotsofchooks Wed 29-Aug-12 17:36:05

Thanks DolomitesDonkey, wow, now there's a thought!

I feel that my asset was going to be my honesty and integrity, I would need to think how I ensure that in someone else - also, do I then become an employer/recruiter?

Really appreciate you're feedback smile

Xenia Wed 29-Aug-12 21:18:30

If you will be doing the babysitting we aren't going to be getting you up to £1000 a day in pay so you would need to be earning say a third of what your team of babysitters were being paid and have a huge lot of them doing the services.

What about emergency childcare when a child is off sick? Some companies big employers will have an arrangements with a nanny service so that if their employee's usually nanny or childminder is sick or the child is too ill for nursery then there is someone they can send round.

The parcel service is useful too as people often have no one at home. I offered to send a trademan his tool by post today and he said he woudl not be in so have to get it from the post office. I forget we were unsuaul that there is someone here 365 days a year 24/7 and we get about 6 internet deliveries every day just about and that is very unusual and we can do that because are home based but most people aren't in that position.

Although I am very very loathe for women to go into childcare or clothes businesses. I would rather they were going into how to find gold in Afghanistan or the oil industry or setting up a series of off shore wind farms. Tiny micro non- profitable housewife type childcare services tend not to get you on £1k a day.

Harrypie Thu 30-Aug-12 08:57:15

So do you have a portfolio of businesses Xenia? And is this the way forward?

Lotsofchooks Thu 30-Aug-12 09:11:37

Thanks Xenia - you've both given me some food for thought. I need to research the correct business model, as obviously I don't want to employ these people, so I need to look at how that works, do I need to be an agency, how payment is made etc ....... definitely something to work with.

Whilst I would love to earn 1k a day, I need to be realistic and at the moment go with what I know (which is everyday 'micro' things) - however who knows where it could lead?

Xenia Thu 30-Aug-12 10:12:33

H, don't think there is one route forward but before I started working for myself in 94 I did build up 2 or 3 sources of income and I like th fact now that (a) have variety which is fun and (b) I have protection as if one side of things collapsed the others would still be there. However lots of other people want to build up one thing well and concentrate on what they know best so what I do does not necessarily suit everyone and I do not want to say i do more than I do do - I basically have one areas of a profession and I practise and sell in different ways within it.

Someone paid me last night for an hour of my time on skype helping her in a sense with her job and teaching her in another sense. I am certainly not the best example of successful female entrepreneur in the UK although I do earn quite a bit. I have found what works for me - simplicity and no employed staff but many other people do something whcih involves their hiring lots of employees and that works well for them.

ethelb Thu 13-Sep-12 16:02:41

I just had a look at a 1-day coding workshop as that woudl help me with the website I am building. They charge a minimum of £500 a day per delegate going up to £1000! And they take 10-15 people per day.

Ok so they have an office etc, but that is huge money.

Anyone here sayign they struggle to make money doing IT consultancy, just undercut them a bit or even offer a live online course and you would have megabucks!

Xenia Sat 15-Sep-12 08:36:19

Yes I sometimes put on courses but t is not always that esay to get enough numbers. £500 a day per delegate is not unusual in many areas as the fee for a day on a course. If you can get 10 people attending that's pretty good. If you can get 30 which is harder even better.

Xenia Sat 15-Sep-12 08:37:15

(someone asked for those links. the mumsnetters who earn £1k a day issue came out of someone suggesting £1k a month was good and people piled in saying don't aim low. £1k a day is what a good few women can earn. )

SaraBellumHertz Sat 15-Sep-12 09:27:29

This is a really interesting thread. I'm employed so not all relevant but the comments about asking for less budget because I want to save my employer money v the my dept is really important approach really resonates. I know I'm guilty of this, and I sell myself short, own up to my inadequacies too readily etc.

I've returned to work after years out of the market - I was well qualified before and so earn a good salary (6figures - just) but I'm ot doing what i previously did so lack confidence - im constantly fighting the am I good enough paranoia. Anyone got any suggestions for inspiring reading (other than this thread grin ) for a woman in my position?

Xenia Sat 15-Sep-12 11:16:40

Yes, I do fine people are not always that appreciative that you are saving them money and some ilke to show off how much they pay to certain advisers (just as a good few men like to show off to other men about what their wife cost them in shoes or on a divorce as a kind of badge, a tool, a I am one of the group kind of comment) and the argument being they will take the pain of the high charge and that in a sense it indicates you are pretty good if you charge that much.

Xenia Sat 15-Sep-12 11:18:36

Actually the interesting bit of the thread much higher up were ideas about which jobs might mean a woman earns £1000 a day compared to say £48 which is 8 hours at £6 an hour. What is it that women can do to ensure they are the woman who earns 200x the other for a day's work. What choices can we or our daughters make to ensure we are in the 200x club rather than the minimum wage club?

Of course you can be happy whatever you earn and many men or women have no interest in ernning £1k a day of course.

Himalaya Sat 15-Sep-12 11:32:31

Mumblepot -

You might be finished with the NHS, but it doesn't necessarily mean you are finished with the workplace. Working at home is not for everyone. It can be isolating, and unless you have a lot of contacts can become a dead-end.

I would set the parameters more broadly than just clearing £1k a month. This doesn't necessarily mean Xenia-style island buying, but I think the question you should be asking should be "what can I do that would use my skills, be fulfilling and give me scope to increase my earning power over the next 10/20 years.

This might mean retraining or figuring out a sideways move into the private sector, or education etc in a role that builds on your skills, it might mean starting your own business (e.g. Training company, care agency), or consulting.

If you are serious about whatever you are doing you will still need childcare even if you work from home.

Xenia Sun 16-Sep-12 09:48:36

9.50, nearly up to £1k but it;s quite boring this thing so I had hoped there would be many £1k a day women posting to enliven me. You have let me down and it's going to be rather cold for my swim today. Autumn is truly here. I was evening looking for a winter coat last night inspired by the wife on Parade's End. The ASOS model (as seen on screen) has been so successful. Perhaps I should look there for what I'm after. I need a mumsnetter who will find clothes I want to save my time.

ShobGiteTheKnid Mon 17-Sep-12 03:25:37

I'll do i Xenia. It'll cost you though wink

DolomitesDonkey Mon 17-Sep-12 06:03:42

I think workshops are a great money spinner - however as a former programmer I would be absolutely livid had I paid that kind of attendance fee to find myself in a class of 30 - you cannot teach programming in that manner! The classes I teach have an absolute maximum of 10 pupils (preferably 8) because I cannot give the kind of attention needed to 30. A webinar lecture is different of course. If you pay 500 a day you want to feel important, not just a bum on a seat!

FYI Island nay-sayers, psssst, they're not even that expensive in the big scheme of things. wink

Xenia Mon 17-Sep-12 08:39:45

I keep saying. A holiday flat in France will often be more expensive than my island. The only thing about the island is that it is an illustration of someone working to achieve what they wanted as a woman. It couldj ust as easily be a small life air craft or funding a Nepal orphanage or buying model planes or whatever you are into.

ShobGiteTheKnid Mon 17-Sep-12 13:49:55

Can I you stay on your island Xenia? Is there a house on it? Sounds wonderful, I'd love an island. smile

TalkinPeace2 Mon 17-Sep-12 17:59:14

Is that £1k yours or the firms - as in are you paying salaries and overheads out of that?
My net profit percentage is 85% and my fee take today is £450 - and I spent the morning at the gym ....

By the way, is your island going to be OK with sea level rise (serious question) ?

FatFaced Mon 17-Sep-12 18:16:13

I do some training as part of my current day job... Reading all this I'm quite inspired to use some annual leave to run a few of my own sessions and charge people!

Xenia Mon 17-Sep-12 21:22:36

Mine as I eat all I kill. I'm very lucky. Mind you I make a lot of my own luck.

The sea level issue is fine. I found a good app which tracks distance above sea and it is quite high, both sides of the island. It is not like very flat ones you see.

I think the second picture down shows the height/cliffs best actually of those photographs anyway.

Anyway one reason I'm successful is I am a huge optimist. Life always gets better and better. Some people look on the black side all the time and spend their lives fraught with worry.

TalkinPeace2 Mon 17-Sep-12 21:26:54

If the sea rises a metre or two you'll own an archipelago - or to look at it another way, an Island for each of your kids!!

I've nearly finished this evening's set of accounts :-)
You are right, life is what you make it, but supportive parents (emotionally rather than financially) are crucial

SaraBellumHertz Tue 18-Sep-12 10:28:36

Xenia - i think your optimism shines through on this thread. The constant putting yourself out there and dusting down after rejection is inspiring. Really.

Good luck to you

NotAChocolateRaisin Tue 18-Sep-12 13:16:31

This thread is inspiring and has kept me going during the cold months of a hard job search. I've already printed it out and sent it to my mother who runs her own business.
I aim to set up a business myself but have a set goal to get there and, having just landed my dream job, I'm now on my way!

nordiccamper Tue 18-Sep-12 13:43:44

I have earned £1600 today writing two press releases as a freelancer.

nordiccamper Tue 18-Sep-12 14:47:39

Sorry £1300, I mistyped that!

Xenia Tue 18-Sep-12 20:24:40

Well done. I think it's very important women know what other women earn and what is possible.

Yes, things go wrong a lot and they do for most people but you just have to get on with it and forget the bad things and make the good ones work.

Do we mean supportive parents when you're growing up? Certainly how people are up to age 7, whether they are loved etc makes a difference to how they are although even there some of the most determined successful entrepreneurs are exceptional and do well because their childhood was so dreadful whereas the comfy trust fund no incentive to lift a finger person tends to end up like poor Eva Rausing.

Good luck to NotaC. It is a very difficult time for anyone to get jobs. I am certainly not suggesting anything is easy.

Someone just emailed that I "am a star" for agreeing to do something before 9.30am so I suppose I'd better do it although I am not that keen tonight on forcing myself.

We had a call about filming at the house again today (not a huge fee at all and even my very reduced rate he is not sure) so that is likely to be another "failure" in a sense but doesn't matter if enough other things go ahead. A national newspaper emailed about wanting to publish my letter. Been out speaking. Met some lovely people. Moved 20 very heavy boxes up a ladder earlier. I found balancing them on the head like an African tribesperson worked best (and is probably good foir the spine). i don't we balance enough very heavy loads on our heads. I expect it did me a lot of good. It is no wonder I have such strong arm muscles - much cheaper than a gym.

(The island has no house on it although supposedly I have someone out there this year who is building a one room thing on it but he hasn't got round to it yet; never mind).

Xenia Wed 19-Sep-12 09:57:58

Ah, bad news. My proposal to purchase a lavatory to convert to a home has been rejected. They are reviewing their options "for this asset" which is not currently in use. If advertised in future they won't tell me but if I spot it I could bid. I think that idea will have to be dropped. This was quite inspiring

caramelwaffle Wed 19-Sep-12 10:57:50

Oh my goodness - the shoes. The shoes! haha And the gold on the bathroom wall is quite fabulous.

It's a shame you have lost out this time; these lavatories are always in such fabulous locations but it hopefully may only be this time.

I've had brief thoughts of "cashing in" and doing something like that (helps to have relatives who are in the building trade).

FatFaced Wed 19-Sep-12 16:17:32

What do you do xenia? I'm really fed up at work at the moment and fancy a career change. I'd quite like to work part-time (so I could maybe go back to uni) but earn lots of money grin

DolomitesDonkey Wed 19-Sep-12 16:45:40

See I just couldn't live in a house and think "ugh, 10,000 men have pooed in my bedroom".

NotAChocolateRaisin Wed 19-Sep-12 16:53:06

BAHAHA!!! My thoughts exactly Dolomites!

In fact, I was thinking about the poor builders and the accumulated smell from the urinals. Urgh!

Xenia Fri 21-Sep-12 06:43:05

It wasn't a massive hope or expectation, just one of my random ideas so I am not really upset about it. It could have been fun, however. If I really wanted to do it I would scoure London for lots more and write to every council I suppose.

FF, don't really want to say what I do. We did say earlier on the thread that most women who earn a lot are not usually thnose setting up businesses (although a few do succeed that way like the the lady who set up the White Company and others like that) but those who gained qualifications in things most people cannot do. If your skill or knowledge is very rare then people pay a lot to hire you. So if you can be world's expert in the locatino of oil in Siberia or the best female heart surgeon in England or the only person who arranges ethical foreign surrogacy or whatever interests you then I think women earn mroe. That is why if teenage girls can qualify into something where most people cannot because they will not even pass the exams that helps. One of my daughter's friends has trained to be a pilot. That is much harder to do than become an air hostess so not surprisingly the pay is higher etc etc.

TalkinPeace2 Fri 21-Sep-12 15:44:39

I'm an accountant. I happen to know what Xenia does and know that the "barriers to entry" to get where she is are even higher than in my game.
She (and I) have both taken shed loads of exams and done CPD for 20 years to be able to earn an excellent wage. She works a lot more hours than I do and has, as she said, carved her niche. I'm still working on mine.

Xenia Fri 21-Sep-12 15:50:07

For the main thing I do, yes but ther eis nothing special about my daughters and me that others who are bright enough to pass exams cannot do. even the soft factors like you fit in and get work if you speak in a particular way or dress in a certain way are not that hard to emulate if you want to be in a particular field which requires it. The lavatory conversion to flat/house idea though I have had to shelve. What a pity. We could have had a mumsnet party there when it opened. I was going to call it The Lavatorium It will have to join the piile of Xenia glorious failures and there are many.

TalkinPeace2 Fri 21-Sep-12 15:52:31

I'll join you on the lookout for whacky buildings to convert - I've got my eye on a telephone exchange ....
that just happens to have five acres and amazing views as well as being an interesting building. As soon as BT decide to sell it ......

Xenia Fri 21-Sep-12 17:07:33

I think people really into this (and it can be quite fun) have to spend a lot of time looking out for the right place. My random request was obviously not the right way to go about it although I had a bit of fun last week taking photographs of the lavatory concerned. I wonder what people though I was doing (it has lovely railings) which must have survived the WWII tearing up and melting down for weapons of metal railings around the UK.

Xenia Sat 22-Sep-12 20:13:46

Tuscany £281k very old hamlet including church in today's Telegraph, set in 65 acres

caramelwaffle Sat 22-Sep-12 20:37:08

That'd be a great project. Not sure about logistics ,but that is where research, research, research comes in to play.

It needs someone time rich to partner up with someone finance rich.

LaTrucha Sat 22-Sep-12 20:43:20

Gosh this thread is still going! I'm going to jump back on as I am feeling decidedly ground under right now. Well done everyone.

Xenia Sat 22-Sep-12 20:59:18

Good. On the Italian village it says in the newspaper with 52 acres but the ad says in 52 acres but I assume they are included. I am not at all sure these conversion of old villages in Italy projects make much money.

They describe an American lawyer who has spent an awful lot doing another one up

The English have always wanted land and country. The continentals seem to want to move into cities and live even with familes in flats. It seems to be a personality difference.

LaTrucha Sat 22-Sep-12 21:54:53

I know a fair bit about Spain, and where it is certainly true that we value age and beauty, they value modern builds and praticality.

Xenia Sat 22-Sep-12 22:00:54

Yes, neither is right or wrong, just different and I think one survey found Italians spending 25% of net income on clothes, whereas I suspect English families would be happy to wear fairly old clothes until they wore out as long as they had enough to pay the mortgage on a house with a garden.

DolomitesDonkey Sun 23-Sep-12 07:03:39

I can't imagine the Italians "embracing" the likes of Primarni either - although I think local wages come in to it too. An Italian friend was holidaying with his family in Puglia and they wanted to take him clothes shopping and were showing him the "really high quality and special" shoes in the 40 euro category...

The above conversions might well seem a "snip" at UK prices, but they're still expensive locally (although most italian property is) - I'd also be wary of buying property in any country staring down the barrel of political and financial turmoil. Which leaves us Switzerland. wink E.g., the Greek government has just started levying enormous taxes upon property owners, I wonder if the Italians might go the same way.

Anyway, as someone who's owned a house in a country where I didn't speak much of the local language I can tell that it's a choice between being a huge PITA or a huge cost. The minute they find out you're British they assume you've got money to piss up the wall. I questioned an invoice about my electronic gates and the bill went from over 400 euros to 120 in 5 minutes with no explanation. I still don't know what that was about. Everyone tells you to get an English-speaking lawyer - but nobody warns you about the bizarrely antiquated banking systems or such rules as "legally you can only pick olives on Tuesday" - that's (probably) not true, just an example of some of the nonsense I've come across over the years.

I'm going to mark my place here as I lurked on the last thread and found it very motivational.

I had 3 epic fails in a row last year, then DH had an opportunity with his career entailing lots of working away and we decided I'd take a career break until next year in order for him to pursue it (just to clarify - he did the same for me 3 years back when DS was a baby and it's all part of our Big Plan). However, because I stepped away at a low point my confidence has been really shaken. It's been brilliant to remind myself that failure is normal and not to take it to heart. Actually it's motivated me to work on a tiny project that I've had in mind for a while. Exciting stuff.

Xenia Sun 23-Sep-12 08:25:36

Yes, neverquite, often people's success comes out of failure and someone on a fairly dull secure job for years with no hopes of more money loses it and that is their chance to set up in business and earn a lot more. Sometimes you need to take risks. I just agreed this morning (before 7am on a Sunday) to do something with someone in Iraq where I suspect they might not pay but I will make sure I don't do too much so the risk is limited.

Of course the age of your children make a big difference. One reason many women are so much happier and rested in their 50s/late 40s is they don't have small babies waking them. If I went back 10 years ago at 8.30 on a Sunday I would have gorgeous but demanding cute little twins needing me every second. Today none of the 3 boys is even up yet so I get so very much more done.

(Yes, my folly of the Tuscan property is just that (or even the London lavatory conversion plan) - not something I would do or anyone should except for fun if they have a lot of spare money, good loc al contacts and speak the language and they know the likely risks. My island in Panama was never and will never be to make money; just for fun).

issimma Sun 23-Sep-12 11:18:10

What an inspirational thread - it just popped up in Active and I'm so grateful.
I already work freelance, and am about to go on maternity leave.

I'm making a To Do list of things to do when I go back, all inspired by this thread. The first is to put my rates up! I've identified some training needs (which I'll sort while on mat leave), the area of my business I want to develop, a completely new area of my business and two brand new, unrelated businesses I could start. I'm making a list of all the small things I need to do to make this happen. (List addict).

(Oh, and I know taking mat leave wont make me megabucks, but I want to do so!).

Xenia Sun 23-Sep-12 11:36:00

Perhaps the maternity leave break will give you time to make those plans. Sometimes people are so mired in every day rushing to put on the washer, collect the children, do their work that they cannot stand back and think I work very hard for the minimum wage; could I work a fifth of the time for much more money? You need a bit of time and space to make plans like that. I read the Tim Ferris 4 hour working week book on holiday this summer

It would not suit me as I enjoy my work as much as anything else I do just about so I don't have any aim to minimise it down to hardly any hours but it would suit a lot of people.

issimma Sun 23-Sep-12 11:51:19

That's exactly what I plan to do grin.
Thanks for the motivation. I've had a very productive morning and feel like my self-confidence has really increased.

issimma I started as a freelancer and also underpriced myself! It wasn't that I didn't think I was worth more, I think it's more down to being risk adverse (I knew I'd get clients if I underpriced, therefore the risk was smaller).

Xenia - you are so right. I sort of fell into self employment and most of my successes were the result of some sort of 'failure' further back down the path. I was lucky in the past that my failures always seemed to come alongside greater successes (eg I'd tender for 3 jobs, lose 2 but get the one I wanted). I learnt some wonderful lessons from the failed projects I did embark upon, probably more so than from my successes.

issimma Sun 23-Sep-12 12:24:45

neverquite That's right. I'm scared of not getting work, so price accordingly. I often have to turn work down though, and always get great feedback, so sod it, it's going up (once I'm back!).
I often charge hourly, but some firms pay me a job rate. I divide this up by my hourly rate and spend that amount of time on it. Is that the best approach, or should I haggle?

Exactly. And then because I didn't feel I could turn work away I'd run myself ragged doing it all and not devote enough time to my other projects. This will change!

Initially I charged hourly or daily but found that a job rate worked better (for me and client) on projects where you could measure the outcomes in some way. Many years ago someone warned me that the problem with freelancing is that, regardless of how much you charge, you can only sell each hour once. On a job rate you are rewarded for your speed and ingenuity by being able to, in essence, 'sell' the hour again. That's the theory anyway. Also, on one job I had to sift through a huge amount of data before I could get started. Because I had quoted on a job rate I felt comfortable in subbing this out to someone else (who I knew from experience would do just as great a job) and spending my time more profitably.

Xenia Sun 23-Sep-12 18:00:27

Always a difficult balance and sometimes the low paid or no paid things I have done have pleased the person so much more well paid work has then flown from it although earlier this year I said I would only do certain work abroad if the pay were doubled (as it takes twice the ime of the UK work) and that felt in a sense like burning pound notes. Let us hope I do not regret it.

TalkinPeace2 Sun 23-Sep-12 18:25:18

I have work I do for free or for a pittance - BUT it gives me a head start on access to other lucrative work

DH and I have a policy of going out for dinner once a month to our favourite restaurant and have the set menu.
We then brainstorm what has happened, what is happening , what will happen, what might happen, what we want to happen and generally "strategy plan" for each of our jobs
and then we take turns to put the bill through our businesses (legal 'cos we are each others' company secretaries!)

Xenia Sun 23-Sep-12 20:28:14

That sounds a good plan although I don't think any business entertaining/meals at all is tax deductible by anyone except the staff Christmas party as long as you spend under £50 a head.

In a sense it's a bit like young people volunteering and being an intern and I did some work at university for nothing which helped my CV. It also builds people's experience and some work I do for nothing is part of a formal scheme to help the poor etc.

Obviously you cannot do too much of it or you starve.

NonnoMum Sun 23-Sep-12 20:49:36

This is the most interesting thread on MN for a long long time.

issimma Sun 23-Sep-12 20:56:31

Completely agree! My new website is live - what a productive rainy day, all thanks to this thread. And even if I make £0, that's how much it cost to start (apart from my time, which would prob have just been spent mning grin).

MrAnchovy Sun 23-Sep-12 20:58:08

It's not business entertaining which is entertaining of people who are not employees of the business (or officers of the company) providing (i.e. paying for) the catering. It's probably not even entertaining as the provision of food and drink is incidental to the meeting for strategic discussions.

Still think that you can't save money by having an accountant grin ?

TalkinPeace2 Sun 23-Sep-12 21:13:28

Tee hee.
Yup, regular board meetings are an essential thing.

RumBaaBaa Sun 23-Sep-12 21:58:21

Just marking my place on this fascinating thread. Xenia you mentioned it on another thread and I'm now so glad you did. I'm feeling really inspired now after falling out of love with my chosen field (Corporate Communications and Copywriting) and getting bogged down with the kids, house drudge and my DS's complex needs (he has multiple disabilities - appointments coming out of our ears, daily therapy, no sleep and plenty of worry to occupy my mind).

I have done some interesting projects recently (one for Paralympics and another launching a Foreign Exchange platform in the States) but was beginning to feel a bit lost at sea and lacking in motivation to seek out more work (and interesting work at that).

I feel a fresh sense of entrepreneurial spirit brewing grin

I have recently started my own business as a storyteller. Any advice on where to start re. Keeping track of Accounts, tax, expenses would be great. I still have some notice to work at my day job, but I'd rather have the business infrastructure in place before I get too busy with bookings.

issimma Mon 24-Sep-12 07:46:46

inmy register as self-employed with hmrc. Set up savings account for tax (put 20% of income in there, plus some for national insurance, and be prepared to pay in advance for next year. The first tax bill is evil!).
Two spreadsheets - one to list expenses and one to list income (date, invoice number, company, amount).

Thanks, I'd got as far as the spreadsheets, I wasn't sure whether I needed to wait until I was no longer an "employee" before registering as self employed.

issimma Mon 24-Sep-12 09:08:26

I'm not sure - I registered on my first day of self-employment.

Xenia Mon 24-Sep-12 09:15:55

Glad people are finding it useful.

InMy, you can be both. I was self employed and an employee and some people have several part time employments. It's getting more common than just one and only one PAYE employer.

Anyone who has a second income must remember to declare that on their tax return even if they are paying tax on their employment income through PAYE. It is not very complicatedb ut also look at national insurance as it's a different category if you are self employed and if you have paid the full lot through your employment that has an effect - see

If you don't earn enough from employment or self employment to pay NI at all then of course it's not an issue.

What is unfair is that the state keeps changing the rules so that at some point they con you into paying more NI because you will get extra benefits and then they change their minds - look at what is happening with proposals on pensions that those who might have been persuaded to pay into what was SERPs (second state pension) and now possibly they will have no benefit from that at all with everyone just getting one £140 a week state pension or whatever. It just makes you lose your faith in the state and think even not getting the tax reliefs but keeping the money might be most wise, perhaps even for those who will be automatically enrolled into the new automatic pension for employees coming up soon (heretic though I may be for suggesting opting out. I remember the days when we had automatic optiing in and then the Tories changed that around)

(Ah, I was assuming it was business entertaining in which case no matter how important the client you cannot tax deduct the meal cost. That's why it can't help me as I cannot really buy myself internal lunches... I think I've done pretty well without an accountant for 30 years. I even won tax prizes actaully which was particularly fun as just about everyone else I beat was male!)

MrAnchovy Mon 24-Sep-12 10:01:02

In my professional life I have found that awareness and acknowledgement of the limits of my knowledge is as important as extending and advertising the depth of that knowledge.

In other words when I don't know what I am talking about I shut up, and when I am wrong I admit it.

Xenia Mon 24-Sep-12 10:36:24

Absolutely. I certainly recommend that people take advice when they need it.

We are very lucky in the UK compared to some countries that it is terribly easy to set up a business. We don't need state approvals for most things and you can do it in an evening if you want to. Let us hope it remains so.

TalkinPeace2 Mon 24-Sep-12 12:21:50

I wrote this for ebayers but its pretty much applicable to all self employed.
ThHe links all work and it regularly gets picked over by other accountants.
Feel free to print it out and take a highlighter to it (coffee is also recommended)

You can have multiple self employents and employments at the same time - you just need to be really organised!

So true. I love forums and discussion boards as I can learn by reading, learn by joining in and learn by being corrected by those who know more. Its always the chats over coffee at courses that are the really useful bit!

nankypeevy Mon 24-Sep-12 12:38:39

Right. I'm doing it...

Registered with HMRC, website up and generating interest, charity fundraiser for 100 booked - going to raise 1k for Leukaemia and Lymphoma Research AND get feedback on the parties from that, bookings coming in, other businesses offering help and goods...speaking to mumsnet HQ about running a campaign about continence - and they've offered to tweet me!


You know what I'm confused with - mn rules of advertising. Am I allowed to mention "follow me at twitter" or , have a look at "x" website as long as I'm not directly asking for business? I nearly got into trouble over something I posted, it all got sorted really quickly, but I am new to this and Don't Want To Mess It Up.

Xenia Mon 24-Sep-12 16:35:06

I haven't read them but I would imagine it quite clearly says in the rules what you can and cannot say.

I suspect a lot of people on entrepreneur threads would like to see the websites of those women who have set up on their own but I would not put mine as I want to be anonymous and one mention which isn ot an advert is probably okay as it encourages others.

Xenia Mon 24-Sep-12 16:36:46

Re Talk's very useful link also see to which I have sometimes referred people too.

TalkinPeace2 Mon 24-Sep-12 16:40:18

The joke is I wrote the original version of mine YEARS AND YEARS before HMRC did - and Ebay staff actually refer their sellers to my page.

one way round it that has been used is to ask people to critique a website or to ask for help with a particular page of it ....

MorningCoffee Mon 24-Sep-12 16:53:53

What an interesting thread, going to mark my place and come back later and read through it all, Dp is just starting up his own business.

nankypeevy Tue 25-Sep-12 11:36:53

I think the problem occurred because I posted in two threads to follow me on twitter - and someone reported it for advertising. Which, whilst I see why they would think that, wasn't my intention - and the Naice Fowk at MNTowers reinstated the post.

In fact, it has really helped me because MN have tweeted a link to my website and it's gotten me chatting to them about possibly running a campaign - which, again, might be classed as advertising.

The reason I ask is because there's a grey area I've fallen into. When does health promotion, or giving people free advice on an anonymous forum become advertising?

I'm a physio, giving out free advice on here to women posting about continence ishoos. It's a common, and ghastly problem - and, it's not properly addressed so some people live with the most horrendous problems. My background is in the NHS, and my nature is to want to help.

So, I'm sort of falling into a grey area in the talk guidelines, Xenia. Whilst MN understand that my intentions are honest, I don't want to come across as spamming to other MNrs.

Anyhoo. They tweeted me! Squee!

Anyone want to have a quick swatch at my amateurish website? gusset grippers - for feedback, not advertising, honest gov!

Xenia Tue 25-Sep-12 12:21:31

There will always be grey areas. Female incontinence is a really important issue. I remember at a party of school friends only 2 of us there had never had it (and I was the one who had had 5 children - I'm very lucky). I was amazed that so very many had it. I had never had any idea that was so. Good luck with it.

If I were running a website I would first of all not want things posted which drove most posters away. Secondly I would not want people being directed to rival websites. Thirdly I would want control of the advertising from people who pay me so woudl ban advertising by posters (as they do). I would not mind on threads about businesses people just saying I am starting a business selling cup cakes (although personally I'd rather women were starting businesses in areas like mining in Kazakhstan rather than low paid girl stuff.

Xenia Tue 25-Sep-12 12:22:14

(Someone will now tell me they make £1k a day selling cupcakes and I will eat my words....Mind you I have very strong views against sugar and tend to regard cupcake sellers like those peddling cocaine so I'd better shut up).

TalkinPeace2 Tue 25-Sep-12 12:25:02

I know of somebody who makes darned near that selling the equipment for making and decorating cupcakes
but they do not sell the sugar so I guess we can forgive him !

nankypeevy Tue 25-Sep-12 13:08:56

Thanks, Xenia - that's a really helpful way of looking at what would be acceptable to MNHQ and what would not.

Continence - it is shocking. 1 in 3 aged 35-55, 1 in 2 aged 55+. And, that's the ones who admit to's the last taboo.

I love a bit of taboo-busting, me.

Makes me cross, because most cases are really easily fixed with simple exercises. But, folk don't know where to go for help, so they bulk buy pads online and put up with it. It destroys lives, and there really isn't any need.

Oh, can anyone help me down off this soap box? Thanks.

TalkinPeace2 Tue 25-Sep-12 13:20:31

I've not really explored it on Mumsnet, but in my original home (the Ebay Business Board) each user was allowed a "Me" page. Mine I have linked to above, others were just chat, but the canny people made their me pages be mirrors with significant links of their websites. And as all the comments were "further information" "as well as here" but no active selling, there was little the Pinks could do.
It may be worth having a look to see what you can do with your profile - to prove that you are an expert on the issues you post about ....

PS - I do yoga - mula banda is GREAT for improving continence ....

DolomitesDonkey Tue 25-Sep-12 13:28:12

I must admit, until nanky told me about the incontinence I had no idea, you're right - it's a massive taboo.

TalkinPeace2 Tue 25-Sep-12 13:40:26

Looking at the public profile stuff - you can probably get away with putting quite a bit about your site (which is excellent by the way) onto the profile as information about you and what you do.
And with your real name and history, then you can be found on linkedin facebook etc etc

nankypeevy Tue 25-Sep-12 14:29:11


Thanks guys - I really appreciate it.

Will get onto those suggestions later on today.

Thanks for the compliment about the site, talk - it's just a freebie one until I figure out whether I could turn it into an actual job...

There's a kiwi psychologist who does lectures on teenagers, he's very funny, and very good - nigel Latte I think there's scope for something similar here with continence...from a marketing point of view there's plenty of folk to buy the stuff, worse luck.

I keep thinking about the Dragons' Den USP dooda - well, there really can't be that many fanny physios who do comedy too?

Mula Banda - that's a really good one. Tricky too!

TalkinPeace2 Tue 25-Sep-12 14:40:43

Have you contacted Woman's hour and Radio4 comedy ?
No money but lots of publicity.

Mula Banda the easy way : Down dog. Breathe out pulling your tummy in. Once all breath is out haul your tummy up and back to make a hollow. Release after three seconds ANYBODY will find their pelvic floor muscles at that stage !

DolomitesDonkey Tue 25-Sep-12 15:31:51

I got an email from mn academy yesterday - they've got via one of the business links - a woman doing a speech/book "Marriage is not a financial plan" - thought that might appeal to the elders! wink

Xenia Tue 25-Sep-12 15:41:58

More women than men under 40 are millioanires in the UK precisely because for many marriage is a financial plan - womem have two ways to make money - on their backs in bed and then through the divorce courts in the traditional fashion and secondly through our work/business interests. Men (except my ex husband) tend just to have the second route still although I am sure that will change as more women do better.

I don't think we will reserve this thread for how to nab a rich husband although for many women who are pretty but without qualifications and drive a rich husband is often their easiest way to a fortune.

The more serious point is that if women give up all earning potential plenty are left destitute after divorce or being widowed. In general it is wise to have several sources of income.

By the way any women setting up business with others including a husband or relative get in writing some basic points even if you don't want to pay a lawyer to do it. Agree your %, agree how many hours you will each put in, agree whta happens if one of you wants to leave or dies etc etc.

SnowWoman Tue 25-Sep-12 17:36:40

hi all

THANK YOU for this inspirational thread, it's given me the kick I needed to get going and plan for a new job. So, today I registered for a course to improve my work-related skills and then (hopefully) I shall be off to pastures new and definitely better paid!

OwlLady Tue 25-Sep-12 17:42:52

Most people aren't rich though and most men aren't rich husbands either and most people are not interested in owning an island and also this may come as a shock, but most people don't want to be rich either

TalkinPeace2 Tue 25-Sep-12 17:44:39

No, but most people want to be comfortable
and £1000 a month is not far above minimum wage
and £1000 a week is only just out of basic rate tax
and if you aim low you'll end up low

OwlLady Tue 25-Sep-12 17:47:42

yes most people want to be comfortable, but comfortable means different things to different people

DolomitesDonkey Tue 25-Sep-12 18:36:39

My aim in life is not to sleep on a bed of fifties, but to have nice holidays, horses for the entire family, a car which doesn't make me double-check my breakdown coverage before a long journey, to buy clothes without looking for sales, to take my children to theme parks without having to check the bank first, to pay off the mortgage. Those are things which will enhance my happiness, and guess what? They all require cold, hard cash.

It's easy to say it doesn't matter when you marry money.

I want to be a role model for my children, I want them to have the best education and for me to be able to give them the best I can.

I fail to see why anyone would want to give their children the best. I think saying "money isn't important" is an excuse to not try. Ask any of the mn women struggling to make ends meet if money is important and if they wouldn't prefer earning 1000 a day.

VerySouthLondon Tue 25-Sep-12 18:41:57

Great thread. Any tips on negotiating pay? DP has just been offered a job and the advertised salary was 80-85,000. Think it works in scales but he'd rather start at the top!

Xenia Tue 25-Sep-12 18:56:18

I don't think it's a thread to discuss whether we want wealth. it's a thread about women who earn £1000 a week or £1k a day as I made it into which is much more fun.

Obviously people can aim for the minimum wage if that's what they prefer.

Xenia Tue 25-Sep-12 18:57:22

Also some people's attitude is most people earn about £20k so if I earn that that's great. I am far too useless to be and far too unlucky ever to earn £50k or £100k and they set their limitations. The point of the thread is to show that plenty of women earn £1k a day and if you want to try for it.

TalkinPeace2 Tue 25-Sep-12 19:04:00

I would say do lots of research on them and give a dozen reasons to go in at the top with the plan of going on up.
Good luck.

lingle Tue 25-Sep-12 19:54:27

mumblepot, what screams out at me here is that you are a nurse. You are already highly trained in some very technical skills.

I come from a legal background so I don't have much sense of the exact sideways moves you could make here. But sideways moves are what it's all about. I haven't stood in a court for 8 years but it's my concrete sense of what it means for someone to sue someone else that gives me credibility when I advise from home about potential disputes.

So I'll start my wild stabs based on my own encounters with the NHS.

- How about if you ran a first aid course for new parents at your house? You would have to invest a lot of time (and maybe update your knowledge) but then you could give the same course again and again and again. Each time you would get better at it. You would never, ever, run out of clients. You could give the course out of working hours. Crucially, your past life as a nurse would give you credibility.You would say - and always says something that is true - that you believe every new parent should be able to react to an emergency nearly as well as a nurse would - and so it is your mission to make that happen. You would respond to questions with modest remarks along the lines of "well, in the hospital we tended to see a lot of X -this is something that perhaps happens more often than we think, perhaps more frequently than Y which maybe we dwell on more".

Crikey I could write your website right now.... (please tell me I'm good at this career guidance thing).

If "sideways moves" are my number one suggestion, number two is networking. Networking is simply being interested in other people that you meet. Keep showing an interest. Sooner or later someone at your first aid course will tell you they are a head of personnel and want a telephone based corporate wellbeing service for their staff.

If that happens though, you then have to decide how many hours a week you want to work and how much you want to earn. I do occasionally earn £1000 - I then take the rest of the week off though smile. People like Xenia and my top female client are characterised by boundless energy. I don't have that.

good luck.

lingle Tue 25-Sep-12 20:13:11

ah, sorry, I see it can't be at your house. But if it's a course for 20 couples, you can hire a scout hut can't you???? Or have it at a friend's big house and give her a cut.... I like this idea better than private counselling because there are no confidentiality issues.

nankypeevy Tue 25-Sep-12 20:47:12

St andrew's ambulance do 1st aid for babies and kids - the ones they run here are really oversubscribed...

Womens' Hour and R4 are on my hitlist - but I need to have created a stir in order to get noticed. A producer at teh comedy unit once told me that they started to notice once you had a twitter following of10 000, and, once you have 100 000 then you can get publishers and comissioning editors sniffing about...

So far, I've got 45...but, that's 5 more since MNHQ tweeted about me this morning.

I rather like the idea of earning 1k day. It's unlikely to happen - I'd need a dose of luck, some good fortune, and a dash of serendepity to boot - but, if you don't try, you'll never know!

"don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon" It's a bit twee, but I rather like it.

Mayisout Tue 25-Sep-12 21:25:48

Two reasons women aren't well paid:-
Teenagers are advised to find a career in something they are interested in. So girls are into fashion and makeup, and the caring professions, not mining in Kazahkstan.
Girls/women like to work with people (more than men do) hence men choose to be plumbers (often working alone all day) etc whilst women choose nursing, shop assistant.

My DDs are both in jobs predominantly done by men and love them, and are good at them, and are well paid.

One DD has written articles for her former uni magazine about her job which has taken her overseas and I'm sure it will have encouraged others to follow her. It wouldn't be hard to get other (well paid) professional women to do the same ie write articles for school careers advisors (if there is still such a thing).

Hmm, maybe I could set up a website with said articles.

Xenia Tue 25-Sep-12 21:27:58

I'm not sure about my boundless energy. I like at least 8 hours sleep a night and when I'm not too busy I like to lie in the sauna after my swim (or sun after lunch when it's sunny) which you can do if you earn £1k a day and work for yourself and in particular when your children are no longer very small. That is one reason why women in their late 40s and 50s can do so tremendously well (i) they have years of experence of life and work so are better than people in their 20s on the whole and (ii) their responsibilities tend to be fewer at home so they have this wonderful period where they can blossom like the La garde the French lawyer at the IMF and Hilary Clinton and all the others. So anyone younger .. your best is very much yet to come.

On how nurses can earn a lot - ideally you try to pick something where others do the work and you have say 10 nurses out there all doing something from which you profit.Earlier on the thread I wrote about the huge growth market now people lead 30 years retired not the 2 or 3 they used to in the 40s when pensions were set up. The provision of care for the elderly in their own homes, provision of teams of good nurses, perhaps people you recruit who are nurses abroad you bring over, who are very well qualified and you house them cheaply and provide them with work if the right people are not in the UK or provision of OAP homes in much cheaper and nicer and warmer places than the UK like the Indian care home on that fictional film which I haven't watched but read about.
NHS is supposedly ring fenced but we have just discovered tax receipts are hugely down and we have a massive huge loadof new cuts which will have to be made so that may be a chance if fewer staff are retained for a need for more nursing agencies providing nursing staff when required.

Or just as suggested advertising courses - pick people with loads of money who are used to paying £500 a day for a course. Lots and lots of courses paid for by businesses cost £500 day. Perhaps put them on in lovelyplaces like ski resorts. May be get pharma companies to sponsor or put up speakers and then think about what aspect of nursing or skills these companies might need who are trying to use up their training budget - first aid for those on oil platforms for example and you put it on in Aberdeen, my first random thought. Go where the money is and the people with budgets for and used to paying a lot for courses. Add into so you haev a full day additional speakers - your day cours could have you doing first aid, a psychologist doing something about workplace stress, a nanny agency talking about childcare issues, a fitness and nutrition expert on say paleo healthy and nutrition as I think richer delegates want to know about that as much as how to save a colleague who has a heart attack at work, just pick 4 main topics one of which you speak on and you arrange the other speakers and advertise the day.

NotMostPeople Tue 25-Sep-12 21:36:50

I'm mostly just marking my place as I've found this thread inspirational.

Following from lingle's suggestion I did a couple of first aid courses for babies and toddlers when my three were young and I paid for my mother to go too (pfb). You could target NCT groups.

lingle Tue 25-Sep-12 22:22:54

great so it isn't a hopeless suggestion. Now, that's just the suggestion that we can all think of because we've all had babies. You as a nurse will be aware of other unmet needs...... (older people, etc).

re this £1000 a day malarkey. I do occasionally earn £1000 a day but I wouldn't want to every day. What's important is to have a day rate as close to £1000 per day as you dare AND by that I mean a day rate adjusted for the realities of costs, whether your bills get paid, and how much unpaid ongoing marketing you have to do.

unfortunately for my finances but fortunately for my soul, during the several days off that I reward myself with after earning the £1000 or close to it, I've discovered a passion for particular work with vulnerable children. I now have a second job doing this a half day a week. It earns diddly squat but I look forward to it all week, and I wouldn't delegate it for any money.

So maybe the ideal is to have one hard-headed job that pays well, do it part time and thus give yourself time to develop and pursue passions. If your passion is financial success though, then you just do the hard-headed job full time and end up both rich and happy. result!

PS strongly agree that characteristic of successful people is doing what they said they would do when they said they will do it. As a nurse, this will be second nature to you - huge advantage there.

Laquitar Tue 25-Sep-12 23:47:02

Wow what a thread, and i think Xenia is brilliand on this one!

OP, with all that happening in Europe there is a huge number of nurses and doctors wanting to come to uk. I know this is true about Spain and i imagine it also applies to Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Italy. What about an Agency and a 'pack' offering short courses (via Skype or online?) re how to go about it, work in uk hospitals, help with applications and letters, advice on housing and settling etc?

Re first Aid Courses you can also target childcare colleges, nannies, au pairs, Nurseries.

Re retraining can you use your nursing background and become Nutrionist? I think there is money there.

Xenia Wed 26-Sep-12 10:13:49

Yes Laq, and she could team up with an immigration lawyer expert who works with businesses who could do the immigration issues too although that shoudl be easy as they are coming from the EU.

I certainly agree with lingle that if you earn a lot in a day it gives you choices eg more time with your children or to help the sick or whatever you choose to do. If you just earn £6 an hour then you tend to have less time even for charitable work. Although gosh I really don't like women being sidelined into women hate money and power and wealth and ideally want to serve like some kidn of glorified Florence Nightingale and that all women hate the idea of leading British business or the nation. Therein lies the way of anti feminism and woman as saint rather than business leader...

NotAChocolateRaisin Wed 26-Sep-12 14:48:10

I'm a Nanny and in order to a) register at ANY agency and b) become OFSTED registered, I had to get my paediatric first aid certificate.

The woman running the course I was on was a first response paramedic and she did them on a Saturday at £60 a head. There were about 10 of us and should have been 12 (at least). That's £600 for the "six" hours course (that was actually 3 and a half hours).
I actually had to travel down to London for this as it was the cheapest and there was no availability in my area.

First aid courses are THE way to go and you should set up on your own to start off with. Not that Xenia's advice isn't fab, but rushing into setting up a franchise or a business where people are working for you is scary and it sounds like you'd be better off earning a good amount on your own a while and once you have gained a large amount of first hand experience in the area you can start to employ people to work for you and they could - for example - earn £35 a head and you could take the rest. I think you would find that there are plenty of nurses who would take the opportunity to earn the extra money and it would work well for them and you as it could be evenings and weekends so they could work around their job.

gussiegrips Wed 26-Sep-12 16:36:57

Also, there's lots of scope for working 10 - 2, there's a huge number of health professionals available for work during school hours/evenings/weekends who are hobbled by childcare needs.

I know, cos I was one.

I'd have bitten your hand off for the chance to go to nurseries/playgroups and talk to mums about 1st aid. There's often an empty room to use...

caramelwaffle Wed 26-Sep-12 16:41:54

Excellent idea.

NotMostPeople Wed 26-Sep-12 17:00:37

Just popping in to say that I was telling DH how inspired I was by this thread and within five minutes we came up with two workable ideas. Stayed up until 3 am researching and even in the cold light of day both ideas look good. This is just what I need, having been a very ambitious younger woman I've been itching to get back to work and be 'me' not just 'Mum'.

lingle Wed 26-Sep-12 17:16:00

"I really don't like women being sidelined into women hate money and power and wealth and ideally want to serve like some kidn of glorified Florence Nightingale and that all women hate the idea of leading British business or the nation. Therein lies the way of anti feminism and woman as saint rather than business leader... "

phew, it's a good job I suggested no such thing then smile.

Xenia Wed 26-Sep-12 18:20:39

Yes, it's fine, no one said as much on here but some women do hear far too much that they will be content if they serve and clean and do good works and that only men or women who are male want money, power, success. It does us down when generalisations like that are made.

NotMost, that's lovely. It should also be fun to try to build things up and when they fail (as mine often have) you just start again with something else or have a few ideas on the go at once.

MrAnchovy Wed 26-Sep-12 18:37:06

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but there are already quite a lot of nursing staff agencies so it is not exactly an untapped seam of riches, although I dare say the owners of the biggest ones rake in a fair amount and the fact that there are so many demonstrates that it is a fairly easy field to get into (has "low barriers to entry" in business speak).

If looking for first aid training I would look for a provider to be accredited by somebody (for workplace first aid you must be accredited by the HSE; I suspect that Ofsted require accreditation too). St John's (St Andrew's in Scotland) and the Red Cross provide first aid training at a similar rate of around £50 a day. The reputation and resources of these organisations are quite formidable making this a field with high barriers to entry.

Laquitar Wed 26-Sep-12 18:42:27

Just to add, if you teach First Aid to nannies you will need to give valid certificates (for OFSTED etc) but still worth to research it because childcare workers unlike parents need to repeat the course every 2-3 years and some do that even every year.

NotMostPeople tell us more wink

Laquitar Wed 26-Sep-12 18:48:10

Ah x-post Anchovy re 1st aid.

Nursing Staff Agencies: you are right. Thats why i said to work with Europe and to offer a 'full package' , but yes the competition is high.

NotMostPeople Wed 26-Sep-12 19:09:00

Mwah ha ha ha I'm not telling you anything. I'll report back in once I'm up and running.

Laquitar Wed 26-Sep-12 19:26:36

Ok then. Do you mean once you make your first million and you will buy us champagne?

Xenia Wed 26-Sep-12 19:54:35

Most people earn very little because they aren't prepared to take risks, sensible risks. They fear failure or lack confidence. If you can at least try and have optimism then things can go well. What is absolutely certain is you achieve very little if you try nothing.

(Anyone into economics might enjoy watching this about Hayek although not that relevant to this thread )

Xenia Wed 26-Sep-12 19:55:52

..and tonight we are celebrating as one of my daughters has had a job confirmed which is nice news... and also proves some of my theories about women negotiating pay and trying to do it better than many do. She said I would have been proud of her when she said she was worth a lot more than £X.

TalkinPeace2 Wed 26-Sep-12 20:30:25

Well done Xenia's small person.

You are right about taking risks - that is the nice thing about adapting our businesses in our late 40's - we have enough of a savings cushion to say 'bollocks lets try it' and so far so good.

Xenia Wed 26-Sep-12 20:36:44

Yes and if one thing does not work another one might.

(Thanks - the daughter is relieved as it's hard to get jobs at present and is in the middle of buying her first flat too so it's just as well the job is confirmed)

PermaShattered Wed 26-Sep-12 20:52:55

Just came across this thread and think i need 48 hrs to sit down to read it smile Suffice to say it does need a huge amount of selfconfidence, determinate and organisational skills of military proportions - i work from home and four children between 18m and 12 yrs. The rewards?:

Between Monday and today I have earned more than £1200. That's in 3 days.

gussiegrips Wed 26-Sep-12 21:43:31

1st aid - true, for people who need evidence of CPD or are doing an HNC or SVQ you'd need to set up something that was validated...

...but to teach parents how to tip their choking child upside down/fit a triangle bandage/blow a pea out their nose/when to call 999/when to take to a+E?

I think there's scope for a less formal course. I tried to get St Andrew's ambulance to run their kids' first aid one when we had kids at playgroup - impossible. They were just to busy to fit in with the hours the parents had available.

Great for St Andrew's. Duff for the parents.

NotMostPeople Wed 26-Sep-12 21:55:46

Excellent news regarding Xenia's daughter in this economic climate getting a good job is a huge achievement.

DolomitesDonkey Thu 27-Sep-12 12:16:18

Well done Xenia's daughter - although I think the ability to do this comes from a variety of inputs. 1. She's got great talent, skills and qualifications, 2. She believes in herself and 3. She doesn't actually need to say yes to the job because she knows she can afford a roof over her head and food on the table next month anyway.

But what interests me here is that she's able to stand up and say "actually no. I will not work for x, I'm more valuable than that, why don't you come and meet me in the Y range?" - and I imagine she's going to apply exactly the same principles to her personal life.

When you've got the ability to walk away you hold all the cards and can get a good deal - but you've got to have confidence in yourself to do that.

caramelwaffle Thu 27-Sep-12 13:04:12

Well done Xenia's daughter.

Good post DD

Xenia Thu 27-Sep-12 20:10:16

Well done permas (our hardest time was 3 children under 4 and we both worked full time - I said to someone at a work thing today who as ever as they all do was going on about how do I do it all etc and I modestly dissemble and said it will never be as hard as when babies wake you up and you work full time... and he - of course it was a he - said when his were very young he worked away from them all week (!) so he never had sleepless nights at all.)

(On that issue her plan and my suggestion had been to get rival job offers and then negotiate where she was working, but the timing did not work out so I suppose the negotiation could have been tougher had that been so. The difficulty at the moment is plenty of young people are prepared to work for nothing, so if you're too tough with negotiations you don't get anywhere, but they had tried some others who had not worked out so I suppose once they know you are okay you are more likely to keep a job. She had also said when they asked that yes she would stay on at the current pay if that is all the budget could afford so there was a risk then that the pay would have remained the same. I am sure she would have looked elsewhere right away had that been so. Anyway that's just being employed, nor working for others so a bit off the topic of the thread.

I suppose we might be saying that an adult child with parents who would always feed and house it if needs be can afford to take more risk as they have a safety net although I suppose state benefits and housing benefit are also a safety net. You could argue the opposite that having supportive parents means you never do much as there is no incentive - why work hard if even if you don't your parents will feed you? i think it just depends on the person rather than what the parents do)

sanam2010 Thu 27-Sep-12 20:41:45

Great thread, wish i had known earlier there was a freelancer forum on MM, fantastic! Completely agree that aiming at £1k per month is too low - and often the effort required is the same as the effort required to make double or ten times that.

I make almost £1k per day but in a City job that I have lost my interest in, so i am very much looking at going freelance / online business to do something interesting and work from home more. Am going to do that quite soon so am happy i found this thread.

I was sharing my ideas with a friend who then told me about a friend of hers who makes about £150k pa as a freelance consultant in project mgmt working 9-5am, and apparently she didn't really have any experience in it, I guess she just knew how to sell herself, amazing.

My sister also became a freelance consultant a year ago and has a daily rate close to £1k - which is funny bc she used to be in all these underpaid NGO and media jobs - and when she went freelance working for the same type of organisations she suddenly got paid her previous monthly salary in a day. She only does about 1-2 workshops a week though and the rest of the time is networking, learning, relaxing, gym etc.. I guess some people set up a business to make a lot of money, but there's a lot to be said for making half and having a lot of spare time!! I want to follow the same approach bc I want to spend more time with my little daughter and if my business took 60h per week of my time i might as well stay in my current job.

Good luck everyone, look forward to sharing ideas!

Xenia Thu 27-Sep-12 21:36:26

I certanily for many people the economics of working for themselves means they can earn a lot more on their own than as an employee. I set up on my own when I was making the same as may annual salary through separate unconnected work at the weekend and evenings. It is certainly worth people looking at consultancy rates. The 4 hour working week book is for those who perhaps have no rare skills people pay a lot to hire but instead for someone wanting to sell something on line and certainly if you move beyond just selling your own time then you can make a lot more money (in some things, obviously people fail at things too).

I agree about selling. People have called me up for advice on this kind of thing for over 10 yeras and I always say the main thing is will you be able to generate any business. It does not suddenly miraculously fall down upon you - you have to bring it in.

Xenia Sun 30-Sep-12 19:41:05

Felix Dennis' books can be quite fun to read about making money. Poor chap now has cancer. He's almost planed £1m trees. Amazing what good you can do with money. Individuals use it much more wisely than the state does.

B4r4joon Fri 05-Oct-12 14:02:14

I very much enjoyed reading through this thread. Amazing....It takes that bit of courage, and I think really life is beyond the risk line....
PS. If you need a great architect to best design your conversion projects, let me know...

obliogada Tue 09-Oct-12 16:36:23

Xenia do you know of any organisations who give advice to business start ups re contracts, etc.? I can't afford to hire commercial lawyers, but I have several opportunities to start supporting myself and my son (recently single Mum), but don't have knowledge of areas like contracts, sub contracting, etc. I remember there used to eb an organisation called Mentoring Mum that gave advice to Mums starting small businesses, but they seem to have mostly faded away.
See my other threads

issimma Fri 12-Oct-12 19:17:00

Thanks to this thread, I started a new strand to my freelance business... and have just booked in my first job doing it grin.
thanks xenia and the other inspirational women here.

Cubaba Wed 24-Oct-12 23:00:28 this the or one the longest threads on MN? What a great read although had to skim towards the end blush

Another book I would recommend is The Laptop Millionaire by Mark Anastasi. Should be available via Amazon but is certainly available from his website. Great ideas on building online businesses, marketing them on a limited (or even NO) budget, outsourcing...similar to The 4 Hour Week but Mark breaks it all down very simply. There are a lot of testimonials in the book also which I liked but some people feel is just bragging!

Also, the World Internet Summit is taking place in London next week. It's over 4 days I think - it will be packed with information for those who want to exploit the power of the internet for their current business or who are looking for ideas. However, there will be lots of promoting by the speakers as they will all have programs, courses etc to sell. Nevertheless, if you can put up with the sales patter you can often get a lot of information out of it that will still allow you to put plans in place.

Xenia Fri 02-Nov-12 11:46:55

As far as I remember the best part was near the start including my various glorious failures.

I agree with the post above - always avoid people with something to sell (or try to turn it round on to what you can sell to them, like my mother trying to convert the Jehovah's witnesses to Catholicism at the door - that certainly saw them turn tail and flee).

The main advice I have is do not just think. Of course plan but if you never make a start at anything you don't get anywhere. Better to place a local ad and actually try to market some service even if you have 4 other better plans up your sleeve than just sitting there thinking about it for years. The only reason I wrote 30 books was I sat down and spent hours typing nothing to do with any intrinsic skill which is any better than anyone else's. Effort tends to pay off.

Xenia Sun 04-Nov-12 12:23:31
wannabebondgirl Wed 07-Nov-12 22:21:33

The ideas here are fantastic and inspiring!

I have 10 years experience managing an IT helpdesk in local healthcare, a top honours degree in IT and experience of managing staff. However, in terms of transferable skills I don't really feel I have any. My working environment is highly competitive and has perhaps dented my confidence...a perfect reason to get out!

In the past I have started two businesses without success. Just a kid when I started my first business and the last business failed as I could not give up my regular salary. I was savvy enough not to be left in debt though and continued with my secure but boring, chained to the desk job!

Now looking for my next move and how great is it to see all these women sharing ideas!

I just need to figure out what I can do! Don't feel my skills are good enough to transfer into consultancy...I am a risk taker but also a realist!

My child has not long started school so long hours are out but you've got to expect to put some extra hours in to be a success. To date, I've been working part-time but it's now time to start thinking of making serious cash.

I am a single parent.

Many thanks to all for the great ideas and advice and good luck to all! x

ChippingInLovesAutumn Thu 08-Nov-12 00:36:54

A very timely thread - just marking my place for now.

LeChatRouge Fri 04-Jan-13 18:28:25

Happy New Year to all of you!

How is it going for those that were inspired back in August when this thread started? Any plans coming to fruition?

Anyone else inspired by the 'New Year.....a new start!' feeling?

Business doing well here, a decent FB following, I have had a paid job already, which was more than I had planned for.
Several places with decent footfall would like to display my framed stories, which is free advertising for me.
A local magazine offered me advertising space at a discount. I declined but will write a short story article for the magazine (again free advertising).
I am using this time to build brand awareness and to build up a stock of framed stories ready for sale.

MadonnaKebab Sat 05-Jan-13 09:21:17

I am also in the over £1000k/day club
The secrets are very boring
In the early years, Work long hours and also study for further qualifications while your friends are travelling/ partying every night
Choose a well paid profession
Take sensible risks (eg borrow lots of money to start my own practice, but not until I had 80% equity in our home)
And (in my case) delay starting a family until well on the way to achieving all this, and make sure your partner does at least as much child care / house stuff as you do
None of it is unobtainable but the biggest factor is believing that you deserve it

carcassone Sat 05-Jan-13 12:18:35

Just read this thread from start to finish, it was quite inspirational.

What sort of careers or potential freelance work could you suggest for a scientist? I am quite a technical person, very academically minded, came top at school, top universities and results for degree and PhD etc. I currently have a job doing science research (permanent, not in academia), but I find myself only earning £30k/year with the prospect of never really earning a huge amount.

I have considered switching to patent law, which would require 5 years of training but would put me on the road to eventually earning £1k/day if I became a partner etc. I am apprehensive though as I want to start a family within the next couple of years and am worried about spreading myself too thin. All the talk on this thread about earning £1k/day buying you lots of time is great when you get to the point of earning freelance, but of course that's not an option when you are still training...

DolomitesDonkey Sun 06-Jan-13 05:17:25

Madonna If I'd left having children and 80% equity until I had children I'd have been travelling to Romania for IVF and the Daily Mail would've done a DPS on me. wink

I do however agree 100% on your comment "believe you deserve it".

Because for me - I knew I was smarter than most, I knew I could work more than most (as you pointed out you did when you were younger), I just didn't know that "someone like me" could work for myself.

I thought people who worked for themselves were "market traders", naice middle-class girls worked for someone else.

I had a real set-back when things didn't work out with a partner so I had to start all over again. But it's going very well and I'm looking at opportunities to diversify and get that passive elusive income.

My confidence is increasing daily. My (latest) business has only actually been live 3 weeks now and there are plenty of wrinkles to be ironed out, but the interest is phenomenal - from both myself and clients!

bondgirl I too come from an IT background, don't sell yourself short - I bet you have 1000 skills - just because you've been working in an unsupportive and poisonous industry (or project) doesn't mean you are worthless at all - see Madonna's point!

carcassone Students will always require mood-altering supplements. wink It's how my chemistry teacher funded his degree. Seriously though, writing white papers for no think tanks? Special advisor? It will probably require leaving the laboratory unless you start manufacturing drugs to sell to the NHS at massively inflated prices.

Madonna, I fluffed the "planning" aspect of DCs, graduated from my first degree 6 months pregnantblush.
I used the time while the DCs were little (they're 11 and 8) to study for another degree, I now have a science and an arts degreegrin. We are close to mortgage free though, I'll be 40 when it's paid off, and by then my current business will be a steady income stream and I'll have moved on to something everything else.
Right now, not even 100 a day, but within a few years it's definitely achievable.

MadonnaKebab Sun 06-Jan-13 09:25:16

Actually Inmysparetime, having your kids really early can also work out perfectly ( wel done on being nearly mortgage free, that increases your options so much)
The important thing is not to somehow undervalue your time and feel it should now be cheap/free as I have seen so many mothers do (why??)
Actually time away from your kids is now worth even more than the time of a person who has not had kids yet so you should apply for the higher salary job / cost your self-employed time at the higher end of the range

I'm an author and storyteller so there's not really a "range", more what the market will stand.
This phase of my business is about building the brand and my social media presence. I seem to have a knack for this (I joined FB 2 months ago and know more about FB marketing strategies than my DM who's been marketing through FB for years!).
When my media presence is big enough and I've built up a decent stock of illustrated stories I'll be ready to publish, then should have a more reliable income stream.

MadonnaKebab Sun 06-Jan-13 11:35:46

Sounds like a viable strategy IMST
Go for it !

coribells Mon 07-Jan-13 16:32:30

I'm a long way from earning £1000 per month but I did start selling more on eBay around last August. I started selling items I bought from wholesalers and outlet shops. I hit upon a niche making soaps , crayons and birthday candles for children. They sold really well in the run up til Christmas , I also attended a couple of craft markets . I am really surprised at myself , I've never considered creative or entrepreneurial at all. My next step is to work out how to market on FB and expand my range. I have a FB selling page but I don't really know what to do with it. It's linked to my own FB profile. Do I need set up a new FB profile for my business?

holidaysarenice Thu 17-Jan-13 06:07:27

Right xenia, its time you came over here! I think I badly need your help on 1000 pounds a day. Just for a few years tho, all being good I'll be a doctor then. (Tho its on your 1000/day list I'm really not believing it!!)


RUAHall Fri 13-Sep-13 13:58:30

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stace1987 Tue 15-Oct-13 12:23:19

Hi, I'm a complete Noob here!! Ive read through loads of posts on the Freelance board and thought I'd reply to this one.....a little dubious though with the Zombie Warning O.o

I'm a SAHM of 5, the eldest being 14 and the youngest 2. I have no formal qualifications, I flunked school, stupid move as an A grade student!!! (I don't think Adult Numeracy level 2 counts?), however I have a huge array (of what id consider to be) skills.

Basic Skills:
Maths, English, IT (Microsoft office, Adobe, Internet fluent, typing, Windows, experience using Linux, Designing forums and Admin'ing (new word) them, I can proof read (my teachers in primary hated this lol), Graphic design (limited, but not bad).

Card making, hand sewing, sewing, cross stitch, decoupage, baking and decorating (ive made some really pretty cool cakes), photography, beauty, hair, nails, diy

I have recently started training as a nail tech, a qualified (nvq2) friend has been teaching me and recommends I get quialified as im a "natural". However I am extremely unconfident, I have isssues with mental health (depression, anxiety, eating disorder) and need to get my teeth fixed. Im in a really frustrating position as I currently feel strong enough to push forward, however its at a time where there seems to be minimal help from anywhere. I have sought careers advice but they look at me like im nuts because I want to incorporate so much over time. they just do not see my vision.

My vision; I would eventually like to be a Self employed nail technician, beautician, hair stylist, photographer with the ability to offer holistic treatments. I would also love to be completely sufficient in the accounting department. I would love to offer complete packages to brides, proms, parties etc as well as individual treatments. All while still working round my children...........

Seems like a huge list I know but I am completely confident in my ability, its just me im not confident in. I want to be up and running by early 2014, nail tech qualifications permitted (my starting point) and build up from there.
I suppose my question is, what advice would you offer for someone in my situation/state of mind?

Thank you, if you read this.

simba3 Fri 15-Nov-13 22:45:52

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Just popping back to the thread to update (since Jan!).
I have now self-published an ebook, am getting plenty of party/event/school bookings, especially now the Christmas storytelling season is upon us.
I have teamed up with a local publisher to publish a print book of fairytales and am working on a further three.
First print run is this week (I'm very excited about itgrin), to get them out as stocking-fillers.
It's all coming together, it did take a year of no profit to build the business though.

PrimalLass Mon 18-Nov-13 13:51:25

stace1987 If you are going to do all that then look at spray tanning too. I know someone who makes quite a lot from that, especially in the summer.

fancyanotherfez Tue 10-Dec-13 10:27:01

Stace1987 I bet you could make quite a lot from that, especially if you live in an area where there are lots of people who find it difficult to book appointments at salons, you could be a mobile beautician. There are a few where I live and they do really well with mums and the elderly. Careers advice is probably the wrong way to go because they are advising on 'jobs' rather that people who want to go self employed. Have a look and see if there are any networking groups for women in your area. Some places have networking groups especially for women who want to set up their own business.

eurojules Wed 23-Apr-14 22:56:09

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500smiles Wed 23-Apr-14 22:59:42

If you want to advertise, you need to pay.

Reported as spam

namechangepro Wed 23-Apr-14 23:28:41

Whatever happened to Xenia ? smile

Watching with interest.

paneer Fri 09-May-14 12:38:25


A1T99 Sat 17-May-14 21:35:15

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JaneParker Sun 18-May-14 13:57:10

We had a women who earn £1000 a day thread or it developed into that. We tended to be women who were things like consultants, lawyers etc. Aim high. Too many women aim too low.

agnieszka1988 Thu 29-May-14 11:30:10

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Athrawes Thu 29-May-14 11:55:04

Xenia loving the thread and curious about whether you "judge" people who are not as financially successful as you? I love my job, used to have a fairly financially rewarding one but career changed, now have a modest income, am comfortable but lack the drive to invest the time that you have done in order to make serious money. I like reading books and knitting and hanging out. Does part of you want to kick smart intelligent educated women like me and tell me to do more?

Xenia's not been on here for ages.
There is a cultural issue with women earning less than men for the same roles, "settling" for lower pay and status, and undervaluing their skills.
It's taken me a while to earn what I do (~£300 per school day, 4 hours' work), but that's a good rate in my profession (storytelling). I've also been developing my passive income streams (3rd book due for publication imminently) and building my contacts.
What are you lot up to?

workingmumathome Tue 03-Jun-14 10:41:21

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Sianny123 Sat 20-Sep-14 10:41:13

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Viviennemary Sat 20-Sep-14 10:43:57

Good grief. I thought we had seen the back of tupperware. Even I have got rid of my last pieces. I wouldn't let it over the doorstep.

Sianny123 Sat 20-Sep-14 13:46:42

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