Mumsnet Talk

Hello. I've been self employed for five years now and never been entitled to HB but over the last 6 months my income has dropped to a level where theoretically I could claim a reasonable amount of housing benefit, and I don't forsee things improving probably for the next year or so, so it could be worth doing.

I called the council to enquire about how you claim when self employed, and she said they can work on an esitmate for a while and then need to work it out from certified accounts, or work it out from certified accounts straight away.

I've always dealt with the financial side of things myself, so I don't have 'certified' accounts, just my own records, bank statements, tax info etc.

Do I have to get an accountant? If so is there some kind of very cheap, basic level service where they can just 'certify' my own calculations?

A friend of mine has an account that she pays £100 a month to for a small business, and they basically do everything for her, but my HB entitlement would only be around that level, approx £80 to £100 a month so there isn't any point if I can't get some kind of very basic service very cheaply.

Any ideas please? Thanks.

Firstly, £100 a month sounds like an awful lot to me!

Citizens advice might be able to help you - they are generally good on questions about HB. It sounds unlikely that you'd need an accountant as if you were earning enough to make it worthwhile employing one you probably wouldn't need HB . . .

Certainly to claim tax credits when you're self employed you don't need to have an accountant. Do you claim tax credits?

I'm sure that by 'certified accounts' she'd mean 'copies of your tax returns' - not all freelances/small businesses have accountants!

I have claimed council tax credit as a self-employed person and I've just had to give them a list of my outgoings/incomings and I've been entitled to the benefit. I've supplied bank statements but I've never earned enough to hire an accountant and they've been happy with that

Yes I get tax credits but until the last 6 months or so I've only been entitled to something daft like £1.64 a week HB.

Seeing as this new lower income seems set to hang about for a while, I put my new lower calculations through the entitledto website and it's now at a level where I'd get about £100 a month - but obviously it isn't going to be worth it if I have to pay an accountant very much at all.

I was wondering if they maybe do a service at all where I take my own, self done accounts to them, and they certify them. Or is there something I'm missing where you can self certify? I just basically have no idea how I go about getting certified accounts. HB council woman on the phone just said I needed an accountant.

My friend that pays £100 a month has a very small business but she can't be arsed doing the financials herself so the accountant does everything for that price, she just sends him the figures and receipts, invoices etc over on a monthly spreadsheet.

I don't want an accountant to be doing everything for me though when I've managed just fine myself for five years.

Patti she said tax return info wasn't enough, it has to be certified accounts.

Hmm maybe I'll ring them again and explain I've never had an accountant and nor do I fancy paying one.

£100 still seems a lot for a small business, my friend pays that yearly. I do my own and haven't claimed so not sure what their rules are.

DH (qualified accountant and tax advisor) was horrified when I went through and asked him if he'd heard of this. He says there is no reason whatsoever why any govt department or body should require you to pay an accountant (although in fairness, it a lot of cases it can make things easier).He says to check back with them (particularly if you can remember the name of the person you spoke to), and if they carry on insisting, then take it further (start with local councillor, then move to MP if you don't get anywhere. Also there's an ombusdman for councils) as well I think, so have a google.

Would be useful if you can get them to say where that requirement is coming form (in legislation/guidance) because I'm very sure it doesn't exist.

The person at the council are wrong, you are not required to produce 'certified' accounts. The council needs to ask you for the information it wants: most councils have a special form for this, here is Enfield's for instance. See if you can find it on your Council's web site, or call them back and explain that you don't have accounts. A Citizens Advice Bureau may be able to provide some help.

You don't have to get an accountant. They just take copies of the relevant pages of your tax returns and use ithem to create an average weekly income. DH is SE and we've had to do this a couple of times when he's had gaps between jobs. Don't worry.

Ok thanks everyone, I will call again or maybe pop in and speak to them and see if I can get someone more helpful/clued up!

Yes, I would agree with Ishallwearmidnight's advice to ask them to explain exactly which piece of legislation / guidance requires this.

I've always found it useful when dealing with any authorities especially in these days of the internet as you can then look at the legislation / guidance yourself and see exactly what it says! (Or indeed if they make spluttery noises and waffle a bit when you ask that tells you a lot too )

"we need audited accounts"
"really, they are a sole trader"
"we still need audited accounts"
"why"
"money laundering"
"really, which page, I have the guidance on the desk in front of me"
"OK a letter with your company stamp"
"I don't have a company stamp - they are no longer required"
"OK a letter on your letterhead"
"PDF OK?"
"yes thankyou"

at talkinpeace. I often have conversations very much like that one (not just about accounts, all sorts of legislation. It always amazes me how poorly civil servants often know their own rules, definitely always worth getting hold of a copy and reading them carefully!