Feminists what are your views on porn?

(22 Posts)
JohnJ80 Sun 17-Jul-16 14:58:58

100% agree Fuzzy. Super comment.

FuzzyEyes Sun 17-Jul-16 08:12:05

ubersquiz I completely disagree with this "Objectification doesn't have to be a bad thing, its all about context. After all without objectification we wouldn't find each other attractive."
'Objectification' is viewing/treating someone as an object. It is viewing others as things to be used. It certainty isn't intrinsic to attraction to normal healthy people, only sociopaths.
Porn encourages people to view others as sex things to be used.
We live in a male dominated society where most imagery reinforces the male gaze. When women try to make 'feminist' porn or explore the notion of the female gaze, they simply justify the status quo and muddy the water.... it invisibilises the huge inequality.
The 'fantasies' porn depicts arise within a male-dominated world, depicting control of and violence towards the female/feminine. This is both abusive of the women in porn (many who have been victims of sexual violence before entering the industry), and fills the minds and fantasies of the viewer with abusive narratives, which may become encorporated into the viewers sex life- which means it spreads and normalises abuse. Since porn is overwhelmingly made by and for men, this abusive behaviour acted out is most likely to be males pressuring/coercing females to endure porn-inspired degradation and sexual violence so it is a feminist issue.
Sexual intimacy requires trust, respect, sensitivity to what others want. Porn encourages secretive/untrustworthy behaviour, it normalises sexual objectification/disrespect and desensitises viewers to what others want.

JohnJ80 Sat 16-Jul-16 18:38:38

I would posit that porn is intrinsically destructive: ethically and culturally. Apart from portraying females as wankbuckets it is alienating, addictive and breeds mental illness. Sex without a human context is a psychopathic condition.

The position of liberal, pro-porn feminists is politically suspect and intellectually dense. Really, it's just another manifestation of bullshit, late capitalist, anything-goes lifestyle culture. Libfems bemoan the patriarchy while upholding anything a woman arbitrarily chooses as an act of empowerment. I actually just read a Guardian article in which Lucy Cosslet argues that there's nothing wrong with teenage children sexting. Yeah right: nothing at all wrong with a twelve year old girl creating a sexualised video of herself that will end up in some dark corner of the internet, unremovable forever and masturbated to by paedophiles. That's real feminist. Irresponsible dumbass.

Feminist porn is a contradiction in terms. However, you dress it up it's just another form of filmed prostitution that will be chiefly wanked over by men. Furthermore, as feminists rightfully insist, women are human beings too. Thus they are just as capable of objectifying other women and objectifying men if given the opportunity and cultural legitimacy. I did read something the other day about female sexual offending rising - particularly among younger girls. I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. The answer to a male objectifying gaze should not be the cultivation of a female one.

We now have a sexual culture in which love has no central role. Just endless fucking meat served up by techno capitalists. While the sexual revolution brought great things (gay rights and the pill), it has eventuated in a kind of neoliberal nihilism. As morally conservative as this might sound, I believe sex should occur in the context of a humanistic relationship. Otherwise human beings are reduced to base instruments of pleasure. Porn culture has resulted in the dehumanisation of women and the debasement of men. Fucking rancid.

VestalVirgin Wed 24-Feb-16 11:28:45

Paying people to have sex with people they would not otherwise have sex with is prostitution, and the damage it does to any healthy human psyche is obvious. Not to mention the physical health problems.

I do not think that porn as we understand it can be ethically neutral, let alone feminist.

Written erotica or erotic comics, yes, those can be okay, as they do not involve actual people having actual sex with partners chosen by someone else.

Porn made by couples just filming the sex they have anyway may be in a grey area, but I don't believe performing for a camera makes for good sex, and most people are not comfortable with being watched during sex, so ... I would not be sad if there was no porn at all anymore.

Sure, men who perform in porn are damaged, as are men who watch porn, but it is self-inflicted damage. It is the kind of damage Voldemort's soul took when he murdered people. You can pity them if you like, but I am not very concerned about them, as most of them could quit any time they want to.

cheekstime Tue 02-Feb-16 14:28:53

I think both men and women suffer from the mental problems being involved with this industry. My guess is they were suffering in some way before they worked in it.

cheekstime Tue 02-Feb-16 14:23:27

Objectification for both sexes is wrong.

BuffyWithChristmasEarings Tue 16-Dec-14 13:53:57

Sex-positive feminism is what this type of feminism is called. It isn't meant to imply that feminists who don't identify as Sex-positive are negative about sex grin

PleaseSpiderHaveMyWallet Sat 13-Dec-14 17:52:03

Sex-positive feminists are ok with porn? Are you trying to suggest that those who don't like porn are not sex-positive (exactly what do you mean by that?)?

Homeriliad Fri 05-Dec-14 18:06:56

sex-positive feminists are generally ok with porn, although maybe not the current state of the porn industry.
I guess it depends on which brand/wave of feminism you subscribe to. Wasn't the feminist war in the 80's down to disagreements on this issue?

PuffinsAreFictitious Tue 02-Dec-14 07:43:44

I'm not convinced that it is, Jake. I am not aware that men suffer from the long term health problems which can be caused by men inserting their penises and other objects into every orifice. Men are less at risk of STIs. Society judges women far more for having any kind of sex, let alone porn sex than it does men, so no, I don't agree that men in porn would be judged as harshly. Men are far less likely to be raped and assaulted on set than women. So while I have no doubt that men in porn, as well as men who watch it are damaged, women are damaged more, both in a personal and societal sense, you saying that anyone who doesn't agree with your personal view is guilty of anything doesn't make it so. You''ll excuse us if we look out for the women damaged by porn, you, otoh, are free to look out for the men, if you feel that's more relevant to you.

jakesmith Sat 29-Nov-14 08:30:06

It is just as degrading for the men (who are in turn paid a fraction of what the women earn) to degrade women, as it is for 2 females who are paid to degrade each other
Do you think these guys go on to lead normal lives, or have normal attitudes, or are not judged constantly by society?
Men are damaged by the porn industry too, if you assume otherwise you are guilty of the same sort of stereotyping that feminists oppose

PuffinsAreFicticious Sat 18-Oct-14 13:33:17

Yes, the poor men in porn.....

ubersquiz Fri 17-Oct-14 21:22:24

I hope that wasnt intended to be patronising. Please don't fall into the category of "those feminists". I have my points of view as you do. If you have a counter argument please do enlighten me, in have no trouble with being a grown up about it. I hope you can say the same.

PetulaGordino Fri 17-Oct-14 21:09:36

ah indeed. we have a little friend

ubersquiz Fri 17-Oct-14 20:58:04

Men are also objectified in pornography. Again this is the point of pornography and not always a bad thing. After all without objectification men such as Peter North wouldn't have the huge female fan bases that they do.

The vast majority of porn actors have given full consent and are under no duress to perform. I have seen this mentioned time and time again but so far I've yet to see any academic proof or otherwise. So far only anecdotal evidence which still points to it being a tiny minority.

MyEmpireOfDirt Fri 17-Oct-14 20:53:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PetulaGordino Fri 17-Oct-14 20:49:07

can i ask whether you are asking for a specific purpose? it's just it rather sounds as though you are looking for people to help with an essay or similar

PetulaGordino Fri 17-Oct-14 20:47:32

tbh while the objectification and portrayal of women is of course a huge concern, i'm greatly concerned about the porn industry itself and the coercion and problematic consent issues involved

ubersquiz Fri 17-Oct-14 20:42:44

But that's kind of the point of porn isn't it? Its not there as a form of drama or Entertainment generally. Its there to titillate and arouse. Which is pretty much what it does.

Objectification doesn't have to be a bad thing, its all about context. After all without objectification we wouldn't find each other attractive. Again its about context.

I understand that not everyone agrees with or enjoys pornography, but its not a bad thing. So long as its consensual, then its harmless fun for adults.

seasavage Sat 06-Sep-14 21:31:12

I am not convinced by any interpretation of porn as anything other than objectifying. I met (through housemates) a woman who makes "feminist" porn. Being unconvinced I challenged myself to watch something she'd made and some more "traditional" porn.
I remain uncomfortable with all porn as porn (no other point to exercise of filming photographing).
Obviously HER take on this is what is needed. Sorry. That is unhelpful.

Rianna103 Thu 18-Apr-13 23:37:44

I'd also like to know if anyone who identifies as a feminist watches porn?

Rianna103 Thu 18-Apr-13 23:16:48

I understand that most feminist find porn bad because it often shows women as an object and men as the subject. So women are the ones being acted upon rather than the ones having sexual desires. This is also true in that fact that men are encouraged to watch porn and women are discouraged.

So I get that porn as it is at the moment is thought of a problematic but is it accepted that it doesn't have to be this way. Or is it still the whole nature of it considered bad as it could be argued that both the men and women are being objectified i.e. viewers are just using just the porn stars bodies to get off.

So essentially what I'm saying is that do feminists consider it as bad thing that can never be ok as people are always objectified and being seen just for their bodies OR is it that it would be ok if women were treated as the subject more?

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