April 2012 Non-Fiction Book Club: Helena Kennedy's Eve Was Framed

(45 Posts)
StewieGriffinsMom Sat 24-Mar-12 08:20:17

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SweetTheSting Fri 20-Apr-12 23:22:29

I am looking forward to it!

StewieGriffinsMom Tue 24-Apr-12 14:34:18

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StewieGriffinsMom Tue 24-Apr-12 20:22:21

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StewieGriffinsMom Tue 24-Apr-12 20:29:43

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SweetTheSting Wed 25-Apr-12 07:55:50

I'm actually just skimming some of it again as it's been 6 weeks since I read it (because I was procrastinating over the Sheila Jeffries book grin).
I think the introduction is particularly strong. I like that she points out equalisation has been towards a
Male norm and also the hypocrisy of 'only the best will do' as if a mediocre men have never become judges. I thInk that's
A strong point in the 'quota' type arguments.

I do believe in the 'cab rank' thing. Will go and find the assange threads to see what was said ( I read some but not sure of it was FWR or News)

(excuse random caps, stupid phone!)

SweetTheSting Wed 25-Apr-12 08:02:26

Oh God, that was barely legible, sorry!

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 08:09:49

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SweetTheSting Wed 25-Apr-12 08:34:42

Oh God, that was barely legible, sorry!

SweetTheSting Wed 25-Apr-12 08:41:18

<chucks phone out of window>

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 12:18:42

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SweetTheSting Wed 25-Apr-12 20:19:49

Gah, gah, had to come home from work early as DS1 was poorly (though he was fine by the time we got to the doctor, grr!), so am now catching up on missed work. Will try and join at some point if not too snowed by writing my reports. If not, will post ASAP on another day.

SweetTheSting Wed 25-Apr-12 20:25:00

I agree with the first phrase, SGM! But don't remember the second bit, will scan for it.

And while I'm here...I was curious as to what measures the Canadian, South African and Australian courts have taken to treat disadvantaged groups 'fairly' (as opposed to specifically 'equally').

Right, really going now!

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 21:03:21

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AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 21:12:15

I'll be around in about 20. Loving the book though. Haven't quite finished yet.

Agree SGM about that comment about adult consensual prostitution infantilising women. Her view of prostitution was the only thing I haven't agreed with her on.

I do think I have a bit if a crush on her though smile

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 21:17:33

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StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 21:19:57

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SweetTheSting Wed 25-Apr-12 21:36:55

Keeping half an eye on thread between reports... wink

I've found the quote now. It does seem completely disconnected from the previous lines in the paragraph.

...hmm. I just was trying to see if it made sense in the context of the next section about criminalising prostitute by 'other means' e.g. ASBOs stopping them working certain streets. But it doesn't.

AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 21:39:35

Yes it did, I agree. I hadn't realised she had been instrumental in getting the law changed for rape and consent. I am really glad she is on our side. She really "gets" it.

The chapter on women murdering their partners was very moving and compassionate. She seems to have a lot of compassion which is heartening considering what an "old boys network" she was describing in the early part of the book.

AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 21:44:39

Sorry cross-post Sweet that was to SGM.

I also had a few light-bulb moments with regards equality not meaning treating everyone the same and the fact that we don't start off on a level playing field so why should the treatments be the same. I think a lot of people on threads where a woman has hit her partner post with the view that the playing field is level whereas it isn't. She also recognises the different motivations of women and men when they commit crimes.

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 21:47:13

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StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 21:49:34

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StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 21:53:13

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AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 22:06:36

I've learnt so much about the law from this book and looking at different perspectives. I really hadn't grasped how utterly male orientated the legal system was and more importantly what that meant for women.

There was a small section where she mentioned women in Broadmoor and the like and how still women are being institutionalised for basically not fitting the gender stereotype. Fucking awful.

AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 22:09:25

She didn't hold her punches either when talking about other members of the bar and Judges who had got it wrong.

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 22:10:49

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AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 22:18:24

I used to live near where the Moors Murders were carried out. Myra Hindley's face was probably on the news every month when I was growing up. That same awful shot. I haven't got to the main bit about Hindley yet, but I am sure it will be interesting.

The section about women drug running (which seems to be one of the main things women are in prison for) was also full of compassion for the women involved.

AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 22:25:38

The DV section really showed how the police and the judicial system uphold the patriarchy and the family unit. She was saying that the police and judges "regard prosecution as inappropriate because it is likely to accelerate the disintegration of the relationship or damage the family unit". And there we have it. The nuclear family is more important than the safety of the women and children within it. So basically what men want is more important. Fuck.

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 22:28:56

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AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 22:32:09

They are incredible aren't they. I was giving them a mental cheer reading that bit. Such a valuable resource.

AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 22:36:57

And the other thing she mentioned in the DV bit was that 61% of fathers in the family court system had allegations of DV against them. Stick that in your F4J pipe and smoke it (although of course they would say that all the women were lying hmm).

In the race section she mentioned how a black woman had been jailed for 2 months because she denied the father of her children (who was a drug dealer and abuser) access. Someone was arguing recently that women didn't get put in jail for denying access to fathers - erm think that they do!

AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 22:37:56

That was someone arguing on a recent thread in FWR, I think.

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 25-Apr-12 22:50:14

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AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 22:58:07

Yes so would I. I imagine it would shock many people. HK seems to have the same view of F4J as we do and intimated that their motives might not be pure.

AbigailAdams Wed 25-Apr-12 23:00:50

Anyway I am going to have to go to bed now as I am averaging about 4 hrs per night at the moment hmm. DS2 seems to be teething and a growth spurt. DS1 was such a good sleeper too grin.

As you can probably tell by my verbal diarrohea I loved this book and HK is great!

StewieGriffinsMom Thu 26-Apr-12 07:31:16

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AbigailAdams Thu 26-Apr-12 08:05:20

So do you think she had to take the Assange case because of the "cab rank" procedure for cases being allocated. I didn't really understand that bit if the book because on the one hand I thought she was saying that they had to take whatever case was allocated them but then said male barristers were opting out of child abuse/murder cases. So it seemed they did have some choice.

StewieGriffinsMom Thu 26-Apr-12 08:12:52

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AbigailAdams Thu 26-Apr-12 08:16:06

Yes I think you are right, it has done harm. The more I read the book, the more I was gutted she took that case. It did seem totally at odds to what she believed.

Oh damn - I can't believe I missed seeing this! I love this book. It was the first 'feminist' book that I ever read - fell across it in the town library aged 17-18 I think. I must dig it out and re-read but from what I can remember the sections on domestic violence were particulary opinion forming for me. Must see if dd1 would like to read it......grin

Re the assange case - worth seeing if HQ could get her on for a web grilling chat? I have been to a lecture she gave once. She is an excellent public speaker - as you would expect.

AbigailAdams Thu 26-Apr-12 09:27:02

I think she would be brilliant for a web chat. Not sure how much she would be able to talk about Assange though? We could ask her about it in more general terms e.g. ask her how it feels to work with a client you don't like or a misogynist client etc.

StewieGriffinsMom Thu 26-Apr-12 10:12:35

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AbigailAdams Fri 27-Apr-12 10:41:18

Finished the book now. I loved the images of the court she summoned up when writing about the Greenham Common trials. A bit more hugging and kissing in many walks of life probably wouldn't go amiss. And asking them who was looking after their children - how much has really changed since then.

So much sexism with regards women who were supposed to have killed. The Lindy Chamberlain trial reminded me of the trial by media of Kate McCann. I was also left unsure why she was the one on trial rather than her husband.

StewieGriffinsMom Fri 27-Apr-12 11:23:40

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