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Friend with bipolar diagnosis

(78 Posts)
Chippingnortonset123 Tue 11-Feb-14 14:08:58

I am afraid that she is going down again, based on what she has told me. She has been well for six weeks. It was awful last time and I am dreading a return to that. She is under the recovery team once a fortnight but they only stay ten minutes and do nothing.

livingzuid Tue 11-Feb-14 21:05:07

Hi I'm really sorry to read this about your friend. Has she recently received a diagnosis and is she on medication? Are you concerned because she's going into a depression again? If she has only recently been diagnosed and put on medication it can take some months whilst they get the correct dosages.

She should have a psychiatrist who monitors her medication and she talks to based on her moods. I don't get treatment in the UK but I believe there should be a community mental health team she can contact or there is always her gp who can chase psychiatric services for her. If all else fails go to the gp or a&e who will have emergency psychiatric services available to tide her over.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 11-Feb-14 22:39:16

She already takes meds, which were adjusted in November last year. She saw her psychiatrist last month. She is monitored fortnightly by the recovery team.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 11-Feb-14 22:41:21

This time I will call the Cinnon Trust myself.

livingzuid Tue 11-Feb-14 22:46:13

She may need her medication levels readjusted. They do blood tests every month or three months depending on how stable the medication is so she may need to have some more tests done to see what level her dosage is at. Even a slight dip in our systems can trigger an episode.

She definitely needs to see her psychiatrist soon though. All the very best to her thanks

Chippingnortonset123 Wed 12-Feb-14 17:43:05

She has been on all sorts of medication, including ect. I am beginning to think that the downs are inevitable. She is very keen to drive again but every time the CT are involved she goes back to square one; hence my expertise on another thread.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 13:29:55

I don't feel like a repeat of last November/December is possible; I have lots of family commitments including problems of our own. I have spoken to friend B who has been walking the dogs. Friend B is blamed for this latest depression so I need to reassure friend B that it is not their fault, that she is unwell.
Upshot is that friend B bales out, leaving me.
She has just stopped taking one of her medications, due to swelling. It said on the label to stop taking it if swelling.
I have advised her (strongly) to tell the rt that she has stopped taking this particular medicine but she refuses. (Could a down occur so quickly?)
She rings me up and begs me to 'help me' but I can't and not sure, from experience, what good I can do.
I am going round tomorrow and taking lunch with me.
I am ultimately hoping that her daughter calls the rt/ct; I am not going to.
I will ring the Cinammon Trust, even against her will, because friend B now refuses to step in and walk the dogs.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 15:24:31

Very difficult succession of phone calls. I have stood my ground and asserted that I will get help with the dogs. She told me that she would never speak to me again. Which would mean that she would have nobody at all, except her daughter.
Trying to learn from the last episode but definitely can't go through that again.

Weegiemum Thu 13-Feb-14 15:29:22

It sounds like her bipolar is fairly rapid-cycling, which suggests it's not under control.

Could you call the GP or the recovery team? They can't tell you anything but I'm sure they'd appreciate a heads up.

I have a family member with rapid cycling bipolar, its very hard to keep up with what's going on.

sooperdooper Thu 13-Feb-14 15:34:24

If she's stopped taking her meds and sounds like she's spiralling then please contact her GP or mental health nurse if you have their details?

They should be able to arrange a visit from a mental health team to check in on her.

I now how hard it is, my mum & auntie both suffere with bipolar and unfortunately you hve to ignore threats like 'I'll never speak to you again' etc, sometimes you just have to try and do your best and get some help in. She's very lucky to have a good friend like you, I hope she gets the support she needs.

sooperdooper Thu 13-Feb-14 15:35:24

Another thought, if you don't have the GP or mental health nurse contact details then contact NHS direct (or whatever they're called these days!), they should be able to offer some advice

livingzuid Thu 13-Feb-14 15:41:40

Yes if she stops taking medicine just like that then an episode can set in very quickly because the levels of medication needed in her bloodstream to work have dropped. She should have spoken to her Dr first about the swelling and they would have managed the change to a different medication. She's very much at risk right now so I don't blame you for calling. You sound like a good friend.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 15:41:43

Not sure what rapidly bp is. But she has certainly gone back to Nov/Dec of last year. I am seeing her tomorrow so I will assess the situation then. Lots and lots of phone calls, which I could do without. Lots of threatening never to speak to me again, which makes no sense.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 15:44:21

I keep repeating that she should tell the team about the meds and that we need to take care of the dogs. Hence the I will never speak to you again, which is not I appealing.

livingzuid Thu 13-Feb-14 15:48:21

There are 3 types of bipolar, bipolar 1 which is with manic and depressive periods over months or years and in between some 'normal' periods although you still feel pretty odd, bipolar 2 which is mainly depressive episodes and not so much mania and then rapid cycling bipolar which has a proper name I can't remember, where you move between manic and depressive in a space of a few weeks.

I have bipolar 1. I'm afraid we can get quite strange and behave completely out of character when in an episode. We also suffer with real fear and paranoia. The only advice I can give is that it's not really her talking but what she's in the grip of so I hope you can forgive her. You're being very supportive smile

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 15:48:54

Not UNappealling, frankly, although that only leaves her daughter who has SN.

livingzuid Thu 13-Feb-14 15:54:14

I know it's very tough sad I don't know how my husband deals with it to be honest. Well most of the time I am fine now I get treatment but before it was awful for him. It's difficult to control imo unless the medication works properly. You'd be perfectly justified putting in a call to the crisis team, telling them she has stopped one of her drugs and they need to go in and sort it out. There's a point where the professionals need to step in. She isn't going to get her licence back unless she can demonstrate she's communicating consistently with her doctors and her medication regime has put her in a stable place.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 15:58:18

Up and own with about two months of each. When she is down

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 16:02:16

She goes to bed and doesn't eat and doesn't walk the dogs. She is terrified of going back to hospital but is doing a good job of eat ranging her supporters. I now have two people ringing me obsessively and am near my own limit. Is it a symptom to love drama which I could do without? I have a very serious issue in my own family.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 16:04:12

Thanks, Living. I am hoping that her daughter will inform the ct. Very difficult for me.

NotBrittaPieHonest Thu 13-Feb-14 16:06:25

Rapid cycling is a variation of either type one or type two, rather than a type of its own, and yes, sounds like she is rapid cycling.

Does she see/hear/sense/smell things that aren't there?

Not that it matters - call the crisis team or her gp if you can, and call 111 or 999 if you feel she is at risk.

NotBrittaPieHonest Thu 13-Feb-14 16:08:34

And, yeah, quite a few of the symptoms can come across as loving drama.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 16:09:54

She is paranoid about all mental health services.

livingzuid Thu 13-Feb-14 16:13:27

Sorry yes notbritta is correct. I didn't explain very well. I was thinking of another condition which is similar but has a different name. Rapid cycling is all part of our happy family of bipolar and you can get it if you have 1 or 2 or just on its own. It's not fun. Hope you get this sorted and sorry you are going through this. And hope your friend is OK.

NotBrittaPieHonest Thu 13-Feb-14 16:15:07

Yeah, sorry, I didn't want to sound mean, but I have rapid cycling type one so I'm weirdly defensive of it hmm

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 16:16:04

She doesn't see/hear things that aren't there; she just goes to bed and refuses to eat or wash or walk the dogs. She has now pissed off the dog walker. I am two bus rides away. Last year I visited three times a week but I thought that was a one off and is not sustainable.

KissesBreakingWave Thu 13-Feb-14 16:21:54

And paranoid about mental heath services is pretty standard. I started getting proper psychiatric treatment only recently and still brick it when I go to appointments. I know it's not rational, but....

livingzuid Thu 13-Feb-14 16:36:28

That's OK teaches me to type on my phone when in a rush! There's enough misunderstanding out there without me adding more to the mix smile

Paranoid about health services is very common. Do you think her daughter will call? Your friend doesn't sound good sounds very depressed.

LisaAYarrow Thu 13-Feb-14 16:41:44

Remember to look after yourself first and foremost though, you will be no help to anyone if you start feeling drowned in stress. I used to work for a boss who was bi-polar and I found her up/down moods extremely difficult to cope with. Remember you need to be getting something out of the friendship as well smile.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 13-Feb-14 17:52:27

I am going to be more realistic this time; I ran myself ragged last year, against advice, but I hoped it was a one off. I am going to make sure the dogs are looked after. I am not going to call the ct myself but I certainly won't discourage the daughter doing so.

Chippingnortonset123 Fri 14-Feb-14 16:10:35

Visited today with food that was unacceptable . Bought Greek yogurt. Refused to walk the dogs. She was mainly in bed but this time I am ignoring the summons.

livingzuid Fri 14-Feb-14 17:10:59

Ah I'm sorry to hear that. There's really only so much you can do. She's not going to respond to anything you say or do. But you were a good friend for going. Did the daughter call her doctor?

Chippingnortonset123 Fri 14-Feb-14 20:50:59

You are right, there is little that I can do beyond dropping off food. I was there from 11.30 to 2.30 and she was mainly refusing to get out of bed. We did a fly lady on the kitchen.
Daughter drops in every evening but she has not texted me yet since this latest downturn.
Thanks for your support. I am not family but I am doing what I can.

Chippingnortonset123 Fri 14-Feb-14 20:55:37

The odd thing is that she has been fine for six weeks; hosting lunches, going out, getting organised, etc. This has been very, very sudden.

livingzuid Sat 15-Feb-14 06:36:51

Fingers crossed her dd has called the doctor. Is her visit from the community team due soon as well? They may take any choice away from her and put her into care.

The change can be sudden particularly if she is not regular with her medication. I get so resistant to taking it when I am in a bad way and dh has to really threaten me. If she's go no one on her case about it then this is what can happen sad

NumptyNameChange Sat 15-Feb-14 07:00:50

it isn't entirely paranoia necessarily with mental health services - there are pretty horrendous psychiatrists out there - i had one who literally said to me, 'oh well it's a good job you've lost the baby really given you have mental health problems' shock then when i tried to articulate my feelings about what he had said it spiralled to, 'well you clearly have personality issues' and i felt like he was going to diagnose me with some awful personality disorder for daring to stick up for myself.

they are not all like that but some are unfortunately and i've seen and heard some horror stories.

rapid cycling stuff is very hard to get managed and some psychs don't seem nearly well informed enough about it or think the patient is exaggerating. nhs pyschiatrists can also be very stuck in their ways (nice guidelines and cheapest approach doesn't help) over medication forcing patients to keep on a medication regime that doesn't work for them, sticking to a first we try this for an eon, then we only move onto next treatment option when that is exhausted etc.

if you are not an intelligent person with a lot of inbuilt rationality outside of the illness and ability to research and take control of your own treatment and options and assert your wishes in a convincing way it must be really tough. even having all of those attributes i found the mental health services a degrading and paternalistic experience and don't engage with them anymore.

the other thing is that some are fixed in their 'can't give bipolar antidepressants ever' state when in fact some people who have a lot of lows that don't respond at all to mood stabilisers (which solo just sink them into horrible depression) need ads AND something like an antipsychotic together which both deals with the mania side of things and has a catalyst effect on the ad which finally nails the depression.

sorry long waffle. do you know what meds she is on?

i was diagnosed as bipolar type 2 with rapid cycling and did indeed have a bloody awful through the mill couple of years (whereas prior to that i'd just had periodic awful depressions that eventually cleared). thankfully i've been fine for ages despite not taking mood stabilisers - i only take antidepressants and occasionally something prn for anxiety or sleep issues. it actually gives me cause to wonder if i ever was/am bipolar. for me there were a lot of huge hormonal events around that period of my life and it was only with my GP that we managed to untangle the interplay of my menstrual cycle with my mental health. is there anything else going on with your friend? could she be peri menopausal for example?

i'm not a good example really as i believe it's quite rare for it to just virtually go away. it's worth bearing in mind that for some it gets rapidly worse and i'm told can frequently at middle age hit much harder and spiral into psychotic type illness.

NumptyNameChange Sat 15-Feb-14 07:06:26

not saying she isn't bipolar btw!! just meant anything else going on that is interacting with it and making it intense and worse such as the interplay of hormone issues from menopause - a) hormones can in themselves effect bipolar and b) some bipolar meds interact with hormones re: some effect hormones and some are effected by hormones.

if you find out what meds she's on and can say how old she is, when things became worse etc it would give a clearer picture. unfortunately these illnesses require such strength and focus and determination to actively monitor, manage and learn from and about the symptoms and some people really struggle to find that. it sounds like your friend is struggling to find any self assertion and resilience and is playing helpless and expecting others to pick up all the pieces. understandable maybe but she will not get better or learn to manage this with that approach.

Sillylass79 Mon 17-Feb-14 01:33:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NumptyNameChange Mon 17-Feb-14 05:57:19

bless her silly lass - hope it's sorted now. my friends mother has recently had a thyroid issue that didn't get treated properly and as a result is having an awful mixed mania episode. wish docs would be better informed about the interplay between other conditions for people with bipolar.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 11:45:45

Thank you for replies. I have avoided this thread for a bit but have now read carefully. Thanks especially to Numpty.
She is 63. She is on lamotragine (sp?) and something else. She HAS had her thyroid removed.
The Recovery Team are due tomorrow. She is going to try to put them off.
I haven't been in contact with her daughter this time but I was last time. I suspect that D May ring for help but I don't know and am reluctant to get over involved this time, as I did last time.
I am going round on Friday and taking lunch/shopping. It is halftime here.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 11:50:48

She is no longer taking diazepam. She has a tendency to take all the pills at once.
I would say that she is very intelligent when well.
She is terrified of inpatient Graeme t and gets extremely worried about her dogs.
(She even complained about the Greek Yoghurt, which was meant to feed her up. It is very hard to please her).

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 11:56:26

Just to remind myself, when she is well, she is
Very kind, albeit in a bossy way
Adores animals
Well dressed and good hair
Can talk to anyone
Wants to do the best for her children and grandchildren
Great cook
Great at interior design
Interesting experiences at international living and travel
(Probably more but they would be individual stories of kindness)

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 11:58:33

hmmm. surprised by that actually. if she's rapid cycling she could maybe do with something heavier - lamotragine can be a bit activating but is becoming more commonly used with people who suffer a lot of depressive times due to it's reported AD effect. lamotragine is one with whacky effects on and from hormones but at her age presumably she's well past menopause. when was her thyroid removed? bear in mind that the thyroid meds levels will be as key as the meds for the bipolar so i do hope her specialists work together to address interactions and how changes to one can impact on the other.

i think, fwiw, that taking lunch and shopping round is a good idea and maybe best given you are reluctant to get involved with it all to just keep it very much at that practical level of support and at fixed intervals. she knows you're there for her practically but you're not getting involved with the more demanding side of things that way maybe? set your boundaries and stick by them i guess.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 12:04:42

I would simply invite her to stay with us but there is no way that we could accommodate her dogs.
I am thinking of suggesting the following:
D moves into her house and feeds and walks the dogs
Friend stays with me for a week and eats a bit and gets about a it/interacts/criticises my housekeeping?

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:12:00

i wouldn't if i was you chipping. do you really want her to get in the habit of coming to stay with you as a solution? or knowing if she neglects herself enough you'll swoop in and put her and pamper her?

i don't mean to sound harsh but you need to think it through as this appears to be a cycle that she and her hcps aren't cracking so you will be likely be setting yourself up for repeat expectations.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 12:14:44

I think that I over extended myself last time, which was from mid Oct to New Year. I would do more if I thought that it would be helpful.
She seems to think that I can drop everything and turn up, which I can't in half term.
In my experience they will refer her to the ct who will deliver the meds so that she doesn't take them in one go. Then she will see a psychiatrist, who appear to be locus so she can't build a relationship.

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:22:23

yep crappy locum service, everything treated as one offs when in fact it's a clear pattern that the condition is not under control and the medication isn't working. it isn't really 'last time' is it? it's only february now, a few good weeks isn't enough to say someone was better.

if you had it in you the best thing you could do for her would be to go with her to the pscyhiatrist and be her advocate and stress that her treatment isn't working and that her meds need changing and she needs to be seen regularly by a prescribing pscyhiatrist until she is stable. that's the only real solution imo. mental health services are a wasteland in some areas for those who aren't assertive and good at self management and directing their treatment.

locums are often foreign trained, not a problem in itself if they are well trained and well adjusted to the culture but a massive problem if they bring with them attitudes about mental patients, the elderly and/or women that they haven't been trained to subdue. cheap quick turn around of foreign pscyhiatrists from misogynistic cultures which see docs as gods (even more than our own) with minimal supervision or accountability can create a seriously horrible situation for vulnerable female patients.

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:24:20

does she have a good GP? a genuinely good GP can act as an intermediary in situations like that (shitty mental health service) and be their patients advocate and shield IF they are aware of and accept the state of affairs with the cmht and genuinely want the best for their patient. they have power to prescribe, change meds and all sorts if they're the type to use that power rather than just go oh well i wrote a referral so it's not my problem you know?

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 12:24:23

Is it all about the correct medication?

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:26:11

a lot is about medication if she is genuinely bipolar chipping.

a lot is about self management BUT that includes being aware of and assertive about your medication and treatment.

bit of a vicious cycle really if you're not managing well or good at asserting yourself and you don't have an advocate.

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:27:00

her gp could perhaps also pull strings to see if she can be allocated to a permanent pscyhiatrist rather than an endless roll of locums.

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:28:11

i don't know if there is a PALS equivalent for mental health services in every area? you may find a local charity that does mental health advocacy, seem to recall a friend working in something like that at one stage.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 12:29:03

She distrusts her GP and refuses to visit.
Glad you mentioned that; yes, locus psychiatrists tend to be foreign, which plays a part, to her mind.

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:30:04

she honestly may not be being racist.

can you imagine how mentally ill females are viewed in some cultures?

i've had the misfortune to come across psychs from those cultures who did not leave their cultural views behind.

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:31:11

really i guess then the best bet would be, and it is essential, to find a GP she does warm to or at least not actively distrust and who is willing to take time to build up a decent therapeutic relationship with her and gain that trust and partnership.

without that it's realistically going to be an endless cycle of crisis management.

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:37:32

would you feel confident to get involved in her appointments and healthcare? or to look for someone who would? if you tell me whereabouts you live i can ask around and have a google as to what services and support are available and how the mental health services are performing if you like.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 12:43:48

If I were to be an avo ate, wouldn't she need to nominate me? Last time I'd open her post against her will and I felt on shaky ground, even though it all turned out ok.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 12:50:32

I have looked into, and have numbers for all agencies in our area. I don't want to be infantilising her. I could call the RC team or the ct myself but I am reluctant to go over her head. I am secretly hoping that the RC visit tomorrow will trigger some action, or that her D calls them. Her D has all the relevant numbers.

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 12:58:56

unfortunately she is probably squarely in the least bothered about demographic known to man. single, female, 'elderly', mentally ill, not making a loud fuss.

i guess you could talk to her and say do you want me to come with you? about these appointments. you can sell it as a positive thing, it IS, that you'll come and stand by her and stick up for her rather than her be in the 'here is the big authority with all the power and here is silly little, mental, old you'. she might want it.

NumptyNameChange Tue 18-Feb-14 13:00:49

even having someone come sit in the waiting room with you can massively help. the anxiety and build up sat waiting there on your own can be awful and just having someone with you on your side can help you deal with the appointments.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 13:06:06

Taken that on board, Numpty. I will ofer to be at the rt appointment tomorrow. I have been there before at a psychiatrist appointment, although I kept quiet. Have also been there at a ct appointment and they were mindnumbingly rude and offensive.

livingzuid Tue 18-Feb-14 13:19:51

Brilliant suggestions by numpty. The right medication works, but it is all part of the wider self-management picture. If the medication is not working then you being able to have a rational conversation with her is pretty low.

You could be a great advocate. DH goes with me to every appointment and whilst my team are fantastic he does remember to ask questions and push for certain things that I sometimes feel unable to do.

This is such a sad story and she is so lucky to have you even if you may not feel appreciated right now.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 16:13:19

I did think about this outcome when she was well. I asked what we could do if she went down again. She dismissed the possibility or I didn't ask hard enough. She is a totally different person.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 16:17:21

When she is well she forgets what she was like when she was down and she also forgets what various people have done for her. These people, who have helped and shopped and walked the dogs get miffed. When she is unwell she expects to be waited on and no one is left.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 16:20:19

This down is from 10 Feb. very sudden.

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 16:31:13

How could we get her referred to the Assertive (?) Outreach Team rather than the Recovery Team or the Crisis Team?

Chippingnortonset123 Tue 18-Feb-14 17:10:32

Just re read the whole thread. I have met the ct once and found them extremely offensive and rude to friend and to me. If they worked for me I would dismiss them. And I don't know how rude they would have been if I had not been there. It went against all of my training.

NumptyNameChange Wed 19-Feb-14 11:17:22

this is the trouble chipping.

hard enough to deal with that kind of lack of professionalism and humiliating treatment when you are well let alone when ill and vulnerable.

i have thought more about this and i think the very, very best thing you could do is try and get her a decent GP who she will see regularly and who will get to know her over years. the support of a decent GP is unestimable imo.

NumptyNameChange Wed 19-Feb-14 11:19:56

it also means that one person knows her well and knows ALL of her conditions and has that ah, hang on, how will that effect her bipolar/lack of thyroid/whatever's to come, type joined up thinking. it is also someone who can influence what pscyh she gets to see, whether her notes are accurate, whether their assessment matches her own experience of the patient etc.

if you can find a GP and help her to build up trust with that one person it could make all the difference and could help you in terms of knowing who to get in touch with in a crisis.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 20-Feb-14 17:33:24

Taken that on board, Numpty. Thanks.
I have been rubbish this week.

Chippingnortonset123 Thu 20-Feb-14 17:35:19

She just sees various locus.

livingzuid Thu 20-Feb-14 20:12:37

It was only through seeing a gp regularly that mine got picked up. Locums just don't cut it. Perhaps worth a call to her surgery to explain the situation and take their advice? Or her daughter to do so as next of kin? Don't know how that works but numpty is spot on.

NumptyNameChange Thu 20-Feb-14 20:45:01

you have not been rubbish - you've been ace. this isn't your problem and you are choosing, despite being worn out by it and fed up of being treated shoddily, to still care and want to help.

don't self bash please x

NumptyNameChange Thu 20-Feb-14 20:45:26

you have to stop saying locus though grin

livingzuid Thu 20-Feb-14 21:06:48

Indeed you are being a star. So many people would not go to this effort she is blessed to have you as a friend.

I also though it might be worth trying a charity to see if they could advise you. MIND, Rethink and Bipolar UK spring to mind as obvious points of call but there might be something more local too.

Chippingnortonset123 Fri 21-Feb-14 13:51:57

Ct is Crisis Team
Rt is Recovery Team
I think that the dogs may become an issue. She refuses to accept outside help with that.
Not eating.

livingzuid Fri 21-Feb-14 14:39:38

If the dogs welfare is a concern you may have to contact the rspca who can advise on what to do. They are the only ones aside from the police to be able to enter a property and remove neglected or abused animals, I believe. They will have experience of cases such as this. She may well have them returned once she can demonstrate she is capable of taking care of them again.

The not eating.... it sounds as if things are getting increasingly difficult. The only advice I have is to again try and contact someone like MIND who can give some concrete rl support to you. She really needs to get some long term support and there is only so much you can do. thanks

NumptyNameChange Fri 21-Feb-14 19:00:08

did you say that one dog was already known to police? can you explain a bit more about that?

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