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DH back to work on Tuesday. How do I recruit daytime nanny part-time 4 till 7.30 pm. Baby 3 weeks. DD 5 years.

(213 Posts)
Katiejon Wed 20-Nov-13 16:37:39

Title says it all!
Any agencies to avoid in London?
I live in Hendon NW4.

ReetPetit Wed 20-Nov-13 18:29:04

Why do you need a nanny?

If you are looking for a mothers help type person you could try

Katiejon Wed 20-Nov-13 21:01:09

Not so DH reluctant to help.
I need to get up at nite and need to sleep for a few hours during the day.
AP can't look after DD and 3 week old simultaneously.
Dd v active after school and I'm not v mobile.
Recovering from csection & spd and a husband working while on paternity leave.

NomDeClavier Thu 21-Nov-13 19:33:55

I think you really need to reassess you overall childcare requirements. You've asked about just about every form of in home care over the last week or so and it just seems your AP is a hugely complicating factor that you don't need.

A good FT or even afternoons only Mothers Help will be far more useful, or a FT nanny housekeeper.

ChazDingle Thu 21-Nov-13 20:42:19

doesn't DD go to school? Can't you grab a couple of hours when she's at school and 3 week old sleeping? If you've got an au-pair as well how much help do you need?

Katiejon Thu 21-Nov-13 21:17:07

Agree about AP.
Have given her a daily/weekly routine that she ignores half of, despite me telling her to ask me if she has any questions!
Have resorted to writing list of what she needs to do every am & pm.
Makes more work for me, not less!
Catnapping not enough, I need 5 or more hours at a time.
Will have to speak to agency about what to do.
She wants to stay, but I need more support.
In theory, would LOVE 5 or 6 days week nanny housekeeper , but may not be brilliant either.

I don't know much about domestic help or hiring childcare, which is why I've been posting so much.
Sleep cycle completely screwed up.
Hallucinated after dd born due to sleep deprivation, so that's why am so desperate for adequate deep sleep.
Psychiatrist appt on mon, may have to v v v reluctantly take sleeping tablets.

Nom, flowers x lots for all your responses. V kind of u.
Also the cost.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 00:06:29

Agree you need to decide what you need in childcare and for how long

Ie for a few weeks while you recover or on a more long term position

If you ap isn't working out then get rid and either get another who is happy to keep an eye on baby while you sleep or get a mothers help who will help with both dd and bubs

Or a cleaner and a part time nanny for a month

Unexpected Fri 22-Nov-13 00:25:12

I think the problem is your dh, not the AP! What do you mean he is reluctant to help? If you are breastfeeding, then there's not so much he can do at night and you are awake anyway. However, if he is on paternity leave he needs to help out during the day with the baby. Having said that, having 5 or more hours of sleep at a time day or night with a three week old baby may simply not be possible. Babies will often require feeding more often than that so unless you are bottle feeding or expressing well, you have to accept that no form of help is going to allow you those uninterrupted periods of sleep at this point.

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 01:01:43

Hi unexpected.
Bottle feeding since 2 days old.
B/f too painful when milk comes in and baby fed every 2 hours or less.
I slept less than 3 hours in 2 days.
Agree DH is problem.
Is working this Saturday, wasn't going to tell me until I was home from hospital!
Chose to work!
I found out Sunday before csection on Wednesday by looking in his work diary to write down time DD needs 2b collect ed from school!
Bad hip and coccyx pain, he will b out from 8.15 till 6.
Mum can do all day if emergency, but she is already here 2.30 till 8 or so to help with baby while dh with dd and ap cleaning, so I can rest or sleep.
The more I move, the more pain I have and can't keep taking strong painkillers.

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 01:03:19

Blondes, too tired 2 think about recruiting diferent help.
Will put up and shut up.

madwomanintheatt1c Fri 22-Nov-13 01:16:54

You will feel much better very soon. C section stuff is pretty much sorted by 6 weeks so this problem is very short lived. By three weeks post surgery you should be capable of looking after a baby for 3.5 hours.

Sleep deprivation is a bitch, but tbh it will improve over the next few weeks as well. You should be able to catch some sleep during the day when baby sleeps. (And yes, I know, dd1 didn't sleep during the day, and ds1 fed every two hours day and night for ten months - I get it. But your wee baby is three weeks, and there is every chance that yours will develop a routine. And yes, I had a c section. I also had a third DC with brain damage who we had to feed at night because her muscle tone was too high to allow a swallow during the day, so we went nocturnal).

Time to woman up. And get your husband to man up. If you are bottle feeding, there is fuck all reason why he can't do half of the night feeds. You go to bed at 8pm and hand the baby to him. He deals until midnight. After midnight, you get to deal. Or vice versa, but at least you get an unbroken 4 hours or so.

And don't take sleeping tablets with a newborn, that's not a great idea.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 07:55:15

If you need help that badly then hire a temp /emergency nanny for a month/till Xmas

Yes it will take a few mins to deal with agencies on the phone - but no diff from replying on mn

This situation has been going on for over a week and nothing is solved

You need to tell dh to man up and look after /Feed his child as now on bottle - so can help with feeds at night

Sleep deprivation is horrible and often why people have night nannies to help get baby into a routine and give mum some sleep

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 08:02:55

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ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 08:12:36

Just seen your mum is there 2.30-8 also....


It seems a bit like you're trying to replace the support you chould be getting from dh with a series of staff.

You need to sit him down and tell him you need him. He has to put work aside for a few weeks and COMMIT to his family.

Sort the AP out to take dd out after school for a few days - soft play, ice skating, zoo, museum - whatever. Give her a budget and a timescale and tell her you expect them to be out for x length of time. Personally I would get dd and AP fed in a series of restaurants too. One less thing to do in house and still cheaper than hiring more help. Then if your mum is around put her on baby duty whilst you sleep 1-6. The rest of the time then yes, you have to woman up. I KNOW it's tough but you've got a ton more help than most women in your situation. What you need is emotional support from dh, you need to feel he's in this too. If you have that I think you'll cope much better with logistics.

Yerazig Fri 22-Nov-13 08:21:06

As everyone has said this has been going on for over a week you could of well recruited someone by now ringing an agency giving your requirements takes just as long as reading and replying to messages on mn. I would say if you do have spare money recruit a maternity nurse they specialise in newborns and especially as your baby is bottle fed will make it easier for you and enable you to get a long nap. If your au pair is good with your older child keep her on to give your continuity to your older child. If not stop moaning and get a new aupair/after school nanny temp nanny whatever you need to make your life easier.

LowCarbHeaven Fri 22-Nov-13 08:26:10

The thing is a lot of people just have there husbands at home and most have to go back to work after a couple weeks. Being tired and sleep deprived is what you sign up too. You just have to get on with it. Do you really think its best for baby to be passed from person to person all day?

Llareggub Fri 22-Nov-13 08:33:48

You might feel better if you look at this hour by hour. I am on my own with 2 children and sometimes the responsibility and tiredness are overwhelming.

I broke my ankle 4 weeks ago and since I live in house accessible only by steps and have DCs that need to get to school I worried about how I would keep it all going. But I did it and it was no where near as bad as I thought.

You have a lot of help already and these early newborn days will be over soon. Take each day as it comes and don't worry about the cleaning.

IHadADreamThatWasNotAllADream Fri 22-Nov-13 08:41:30

Ring the first nanny agency with an advert in Families magazine and ask for a temp for a month. Hire the first one who turns up for interview on time not actually carrying an axe. Close MN.

In three weeks time, when you are sane and recovered, come back to this thread, read all the sensible advice and decide what to do next.

daughterofafarmer Fri 22-Nov-13 08:44:19

Sorry, I'm confused! You have an AP and your mother but still needed extra help? What the heck does your AP do all day? What hours does your AP do? What does she do whist your DD is a school?

If you aren't happy with the set up, sort it out. Sounds like your AP has a very cushy set up, not surprised she reluctant. Either change her hours / work requirements or let her go and find someone else. I suspect the housekeeper / mothers help would be a better fit. Unless of course your AP is willing to take on extra household duties?

IMHO it sounds like you all have completely unrealistic expectations. Could it be possible that your DH is hands off because you have so much help during the day available. And maybe doesn't fully appreciate that this current set isn't working for you.

Personally I think you sound very lucky. DC2 due in 6 wks (DC1 is only 2) here I apart from 3 wk leave for DH I will have no help once he goes back to work and I'm having a CS.

Time to toughen up!

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 09:30:55

I posted cos not sure of best way of dealing with housework and childcare.
I wanted to find ways of managing and not rush into spending money on help.
I do not have more money than sense.
If I could afford it, I would have a newborn nanny and daily cleaner!
When I was sleep deprived with dd I had images of her on the floor with blood coming out of her mouth.
Have been told by psychiatrist I must sleep to avoid anxiety & hallucinating.
Also severe spd, posting cos have to lie down to stop the pain, which feels like am being pulled in half like a wishbone!!
Anxiety about DS dying stops me sleeping.
V upset cos missed miscarriage last year October AFTER seeing h\b at 8 weeks.
2 x medical management (physically agonising) then ERPC, followed by disassociation caused by severe trauma and also inflamed hip bursa, more pain.
Agree: DH needs 2 support me more, not volunteer to work on a Saturday

Am now stricter with AP, if she doesn't do the work will tell agency will either have to go home or I will have 2 reduce her hours to pay 4 cleaner. Good with children, not so keen on cleaning.

Thank u all 4 your ideas.

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 09:37:58

Agencies: ANYONE can be a nanny, doesn't need to have experience or basic hygiene training.
However, have Norland nanny coming in tomorrow cos DH working 8 till 6.
Please stop attacking me, do u know what it feels like to have terrifying images in front of your eyes, to see your baby bleeding cos u dropped them? A daytime nightmare, not a sleeping one.

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 09:46:18

Op, many of us have lost babies etc -it doesnt stop us looking after our dc. I am a single mum of 2 and have lost pregnancies/had health issues etc. I still mabage to raise my dc alone and work 4/5 days a week.

I dont think its childcare help you need - you need to bond eith your baby, not pass him around all day.

Mayve you need to see your GP though about your mental state?

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 09:47:57

We have told you how to deal with the situation but you keep finding reasons not to

Have you actually picked up the phone and tried calling an agency ?

I don't mean to be horrible but you have a child at school all day - an ap to pick her up/look after till bedtime

A mum who is there every afternoon to look after baby

Yet you are still not happy

I'm sorry you are sleep deprived but you have 2 children and that's something I will prob never have - you are so lucky

Count your blessings smile

We have given you solutions for the past week and you've done nothing about it

I have next week off and almost tempted to come up to you myself lol

itshowwedo Fri 22-Nov-13 09:51:26

It sounds as though you have some medical help, which is a good thing.

If you want some reassurance, I had horrible sleep-deprived anxious hallucinations of the kind you described: they were short-lived and I went on to recover normally.

You know your DH needs to be on board. Can your psychiatrist/GP talk to him? If he took a couple of weeks leave, do you think you'd feel better? Please tell your psychiatrist about your childcare/cleaning worries too - she/he may be able to help you get them into perspective and think through what you actually need.

HairyPorter Fri 22-Nov-13 09:59:30

All a bit complicated for me to follow. Sounds like you already have some help? What exactly are you looking for?? Nannies can be found off gumtree or or (not certain of last one), but you will be the employer. Otherwise go with an agency. I can't imagine why you need an AP and a nanny and your mum though?!? Getting a nanny will surely make AP redundant?? But ultimately you need to do whatever helps you get through the newborn phase. Good luck finding someone!

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 10:05:18

And by the title is sounds as though your dh has been there too (other than saturdays) too many cooks spoil the broth imo. Spend some time with your baby, sleep when he sleeps and get a cleaner.

Am confused by why u have your mum and an au pair! Surely one or the other would be enough. Or uour school aged child could do after school clubs??

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 10:05:27

Regards agencies - yes anyone can call their self a nanny - but you tell gency you want a qualified nanny with say 10+yrs exp and maybe 5 with new born babies

Or ask for a night nanny / mat nurse - all (like myself) will have years of exp with new borns

They are not going to send you an unqualified teenager with no baby exp

London agencies may vary but temp care costs here in kent are about 25/30 a day to the agency plus obv nanny payment

NomDeClavier Fri 22-Nov-13 10:38:45

Tell an agency what you want and they will find you someone. Yes, anyone can call themselves a nanny but only crap agencies take someone with no qualifications or experience. Eden, Greycoat, Imperial - all have reputations to uphold and won't mess around with you.

Say you want a current first aid and conpleted food hygiene. Say you want a level 3 qualification, ideally with additional courses. Say you want x amount of experience and y of that with newborns, or you want someone who has worked with a newborn and 5yo before with a post CS mother with PND.

When you get candidates through just check the CV quickly - you're looking for CACHE DCE, NVQ3, BTEC, NAMCW or NNEB in terms of qualifications. If you need to then post on MN saying 'can anyone experienced look over this CV for me?' and send them an anonymised version c&p in a PM.

But first sit down and think what you need them to do and when. Believe me when I say your AP is no good for what you need and you can find a better solution. Her wanting to stay shouldn't be a factor - you need what you need and if she can't provide it when you thought she could she has to go. She really should be able to keep your DD amused in that after-school slot.

If blondes is offering then grab her with both hands! It might cost more on the short term but you'll need less help in the long term because you'll be able to recover. I'd rather pay 4x more per week for a good extra pair of hands FT over 3 months than a year of a crap AP who also adds to the living expenses of the whole family.

It may not be help every day you need - Tuesday and Thursday full days might give you the time to rest to cope with the other days. Can the Norlander do any more hours assuming she's any good?

You do have to protect your MH but going round the carousel of childcare options isn't helping you do that. It's giving you another thing to worry and get stressed over. Is your psychiatrist managing your anxiety? I think the worry about getting no sleep is almost worse than the lack of sleep for you at the moment.

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 10:48:39

Have been looking at budget.
Need mum here cos DH has been working even though supposed to be in paternity leave!
Not going round in circles, have requested advice from other mums, which has been invaluable.
Have bonded with baby.
My back is agonising from lifting him up and putting him down again.
Everyone has their own experience & problems.
Please stop criticising me until u have been in my shoes.
I want to close this thread down.
Will probably reduce ap hours to help with children and get my old cleaner in.
Thank u all.
I hope this thread will help other parents.

daughterofafarmer Fri 22-Nov-13 11:07:18

katie sorry that you have had a hard time in the past, but that was then. You need / must to look forward.

I know you will take this the wrong way, please don't it is said in kindness...but you're not thinking straight. You need to address this first by getting so sleep. You will feel much better after 4 or 5 hrs. I promise.

So get your mother to take the baby out for several hours this afternoon so you can have a proper rest without anyone in the house. AP to collect DD and take her off for the afternoon, inc supper.

Get to your GP, you need to speak things through with them. At the very least they need to be aware.

You need to tell AP, Mother and DH how you are feeling. Voice your concerns fully. Tell DH he is needed this weekend, period, end off!

Glad you have someone else coming.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 11:33:41

Thanks nom smile

Katie - no one is meaning to criticize you but you asked us for help and options and you aren't doing anything about it

This could have been resolved if you had rang an agency and requested an exp qual nanny/mat nurse

As I said sleep deprevation is awful and makes any sane person mad - let alone someone with your previous history

Tbh if your dh knows how much you worry and knows your psychiatrist tells you you need sleep to avoid some of the things you have mentioned then why the fuck isn't he helping you?

After what happened with dd he must have known this might have happened / did he want ds? As sorry but sounds to me that he doesn't care that you are having difficulties if he keeps going to work

Have you actually sat down with him and said you need him to do xyz -- some-- men have no brains lol

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 11:50:10

Daughter - op has been sleepinh 2.30-8 while mother is there looking after and bottle feeding baby and au pair had been cleaning!!

I don't think is about needimg more help - if anything op needs lesd so she can learn to parent and any help that is needed is a dofferent kind of help imo...

daughterofafarmer Fri 22-Nov-13 12:11:00

reet must have missed that..whoops. And I hate it when people don't read threads properly blush Right...well...mmm i'm not really sure what to suggest then. Yes I agree with your final comment.

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 13:35:19

I haven't been sleeping 2 till 8, I take an hour to relax to sleep, (3 or 4 pm), then DD back at 4 and noise wakes me up.
Ds crying wakes me up.
Need to sleep and can then think rationally, will prob have 2 get sleeping tablets.
Mum cant take children to her house cos dad been ill with flu 4 2 weeks.

Sleep will help me.

Artandco Fri 22-Nov-13 13:49:50

I suggest you use the help you have efficiently.

Why is ap bring eldest home at 4pm if it wakes you? Get ap to collect eldest from school and take to local museum/ gallery/ park wrapped up/ cafe for dinner/ ask friends if they can visit for the next week. So they don't return home until 6pm earliest.

Get your mother to take baby out until 6pm also so he isn't crying in house if she has him anyway.

Go to sleep 2-6pm.

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 13:54:44

Dd school 20 minute drive away.
£2, 000 to insure ap on car. V.cold in london to take baby out.he already has a cold.
Have asked her friends 4 after school, all say home at 4.15 and kids tired.

LePetitPrince Fri 22-Nov-13 14:03:54

A night nanny 3 times a week if you can afford it will allow you to sleep and between the AP minding your 5 yo and your mum being around, you have enough time to grab sleep. Very few APs can clean so just play to her strengths and get the old cleaner back.
I'd talk to the doc on how you are feeling too, so you get the right attention.
Good luck, early days are hard esp when ill but you will soon feel better. Take care.

threeisatragicnumber Fri 22-Nov-13 14:08:36

Is there only me that feels a bit sorry for OPs DH?

I know he doesn't sound like he's doing much to help but then again OP has:

1. DD at school
2. AP living in and doing housework
3. Mum around all afternoon (and doing school runs?)
4. Nanny to cover Saturday DH is working

DH around evenings as well, and presumably Sundays/other Saturdays days when he's not working.

And lets remember, its not like he's buggering off for a skive all day, presumably he is working hard when he is out of the house, and knackered from that?

Presuming he is responsible for keeping a roof over their heads and paying for the (not inconsiderable) amount of help OP has he might feel he needs to go into work on the Saturdays for the money? (I'm not saying its the right decision, just trying to be rational about why he would do that).

OP - does he know how angry you are about it? You need to talk to him.

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 14:10:53

hmm you just won't take any advice op, people are trying to help and nothing is getting through to you. I suspect its the same for your dh/au pair/mother.

I'm sure you know how to contact nanny agencies yourself, so do it. Let your au pair go and stop relying on your mother.

(And btw, I am also in NW London and it is NOT to cold to take a baby out - raincover, blankets, he'll be fine)

I really would suggest seeing your GP though. I don't think sleeping tablets would be prescribed to you with a young baby but as you are not breastfeeding he might be able to give you some anti depressants or something.

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 14:11:32

I agree three, poor sod sad

comemulledwinewithmoi Fri 22-Nov-13 14:18:05

I can't actually believe some of you are telling op to women up! Walk a mile in my shoes and all that. Your dh is a knob.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 14:18:52

My offer still stands op - you can have me this week 3/4nights - sun mon tue and thur night

You are further then I normally travel (hr) but if you are happy to pay something towards travel costs then send me a message and I can tell you more about me

I rough it quite happily on the sofa smile tho en suite kingsiZe beds also fine smile

Hope norlander is helpful tomorrow

comemulledwinewithmoi Fri 22-Nov-13 14:24:17

I think op, you are crying out for help as right now you can't cope. This will get better over time. Get rid if au pair, ring nanny agency. Or think about a doula. Good luck. I do feel for you.

Artandco Fri 22-Nov-13 14:25:20

20 min drive away - can they go on a bus? London is very well connected.

It's cold in London but not cold enough not to go out with baby. He won't go outside for 4 months otherwise! Def get your mum to take him out either in sling with hat and wrapped under her coat or in pram in foot muff with hat and blankets and hood up. She could take him for a walk through a park and head to a cafe herself once he is asleep.

If nothing above is poss just call a large agency ie greatcoat and ask for a night nanny for the next few weeks.

However, I don't mean to be blunt but babies don't sleep all night but usually do sleep a lot. Can you not just keep baby in your room next to your bed so you can just feed him from in bed/ and let him lie on you

rockybalboa Fri 22-Nov-13 14:31:39

I'd love 5 hours solid sleep. DS3 is 4 months old. Zzzzzz. I don't really understand why your AP can't manage both children for a few hours, is the older one really such a handful?

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 14:32:56

Masses of ideas.Thank u.
2 x buses and a long walk at the end 4 skool.

LeBearPolar Fri 22-Nov-13 14:34:01

I think people are telling the OP to woman up because so many of us have experienced the things she is talking about, have not been able to afford extra help so have just muddled through as best we can with very little sleep and so on.

The OP seems to have help coming out of her ears and still demands more. When I had a newborn, I would have given a lot to just have that hour to relax that she says she has during the day, never mind all the other help she has.

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 14:34:56

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Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 14:36:47

Rocky - ap wouldn't have both children as durin the day dd5yrs is at school and granny there in afternoon to have baby

So ap does nothing 9-3 (normal for aps) and then should be able to look after 5yr 3/7

If dd is too noisey and wakes you then wear earplugs as your mum is there for bubs or get ap to take out to soft play centre /swimming pool / cafe for lunch

LeBearPolar Fri 22-Nov-13 14:36:58

And for those who say that her DH is a knob - someone has to earn enough money to pay for all this childcare and extra help presumably? Unless of course it is being financed from somewhere other than his salary, in which case I agree he is being very unsupportive!

TerroroftheAutumns Fri 22-Nov-13 14:42:24

You need a postnatal doula. They will be able to help out with baby or watch them whilst you sleep. They may do a bit of light housework/cooking, and maybe play with older child if needed. Importantly, they are used to new mums and can provide emotional as well as practical support for you.


randomAXEofkindness Fri 22-Nov-13 14:48:50

I don't think people are attacking you, I just think that there are a lot of women here who feel like they have had similar experiences with much less support, and coped better, and that makes it difficult for them to sympathize with you.

You are making a good argument to support you being incapable of looking after your children op. I can't help thinking that no amount of 'help' would suffice, and that you need another healthy (in body and mind) carer there 24hrs a day to take responsibility for them.

I would be concerned about you being left alone with your newborn. Your dh has to take his paternity leave.

daughterofafarmer Fri 22-Nov-13 14:50:34

Do you get out of the house at all during the day, meeting friends for lunch or a coffee? Going for a walk. Cabin Fever is bad. Having something to look forward to every day would be a huge boost.

I'm sure Katie you would cope very well, if you had too. You are have become to reliant on other people.

With regards to the weather, you are joking right....Sorry you're coming across as a bit of princess.

If I had money, and was in your position...

Get rid of AP, she doesn't sound great.
Get a nanny instead.
Get a cleaner to come as often as you can afford.

Mum looks after baby from 2-6pm, outside of your home. Can she take the baby to hers instead? It's not too cold outside for a baby, and babies don't catch colds from being cold. It's a virus. Do you think we never take our babies out in Scotland?
Nanny/AP picks DD up from school, takes her out for dinner. Not back until 6pm, like your Mum.
During this time, you SLEEP. Put earplugs in and eye mask on, and sleep.

threeisatragicnumber Fri 22-Nov-13 14:56:54

If she has SPD/CS she might not be able to walk (I had it, its a real bugger). Just wrapping up warm and sitting in the back garden with a cuppa helps though - agree that fresh air is essential. Also having friends round to you, so you moan talk to somebody other than children/mum/ap especially about useless DH.

Leopoldina Fri 22-Nov-13 15:03:45

you do realise that your house doesn't need cleaning every day? just let some of it slide. go easy on yourself, lower standards on the cleaning while you focus on the baby.

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 15:07:21

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Floggingmolly Fri 22-Nov-13 15:08:28

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Shoutymomma Fri 22-Nov-13 15:11:38

Regarding the disturbing images you are experiencing: you have relinquished much of your 'role' due to your physical and sleep issues, your sub conscious self is punishing you and guilt tripping you with these images. You are now stuck in a viscous circle. I have to ask, why is nobody taking charge of this situation? Your husband is probably working his nuts off to pay for ineffective help and your mother is watching it all go on around her. Surely one of you can be the grown up and make some decisions?

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 15:14:02

Lol at floggingmolly - exactly what i was thinking!!

NomDeClavier Fri 22-Nov-13 15:16:13

I think the OP does need some form of help. CS + SPD + seeing a psych = not your run of the mill pregnancy/birth/postnatal period. I expect the combination is exhausting on itself. But equally there comes a point where you need to say that's that and you're arranging the help you have in X way or you're getting different help in.

A couple of long periods of sleep probably will do wonders, now it just has to happen. Stop trying to work around and make it work for you.

The suggestion of AP taking DD somewhere is a good one even if it involves perhaps a tube or bus ride to a different location that's not directly on the way home. Admittedly Hendon isn't great for attractions but send them to Brent Cross or something.

Does DD's school have a bus/coach service? I'm assuming she's at an indie? Although they may not usually let children her age take it if you explained your circumstances they may make an exception. I remember looking after a lower school girl on the coach a couple of times a week for a term when in sixth form and I was at a school not too far away. Similar circumstances - mother had had an operation, DD was too little to be unaccompanied and journey frightful by public transport due to school's location in the middle of a ruddy great field.

BeaWheesht Fri 22-Nov-13 15:31:51

OP I feel for you but I also agree that your dh isn't really doing anything wrong IMO and it'd probably do you some good to recognise that.

You aren't facing an impossible situation here, you need to try and cope, you won't know you can otherwise.

I'm not for competitive misery or whatever but I think you genuinely need to realise that you've got it relatively easy and if you can't accept that then IMO more child care and sleeping tablets won't help but maybe a reality check and your psychiatrist might?

I don't know a single person who had any paid for help after any of their dc and their dh's mostly took a week off, majority don't have family to help. You are in a lucky position in terms of help. I know you have mental and physical problems and believe me I know allllllll about what sleep deprivation can do but you need to accept it IMO, surely you chose to have dc2?

SoonToBeSix Fri 22-Nov-13 15:49:36

For goodness sake but some earplugs and sleep while your mother is there. I do understand the stress of not getting enough sleep. I am disabled and the combination of my painkillers and disability make me very very tired. But I chose to have children as did you. Am sorry to be harsh but I don't think you need more help I think you need counselling.

Parsnipcake Fri 22-Nov-13 16:20:36

Hi, I think people are being quite harsh here. It sounds like you had a psychotic episode ( or something close to it) shortly after your baby's birth, which must have been terrifying. If you have these thoughts taxiing through your head it must be impossible to be able to get the headspace to organise effictive help, especially when you are tired and in pain.

I don't know your financial situation but would a full time nanny for a week maybe take the pressure off you do you could make some decisions. Or maybe you should ask your mum and husband to arrange extra help and take this added burden from you. The other thing to talk about is going into a mother and baby psychiatric unit for a while to take the pressure off you and let you concentrate on get better physically and emotionally. With all the stress you are under, it may just give you a breather and be better than medication - its certainly an option to discuss with your psychiatrist.

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 16:24:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Parsnipcake Fri 22-Nov-13 16:35:52

Reet, why do you feel the need to post such comments. The OP is clearly distressed. Yes,many of us have been through difficulties but there is no need for such superciliousness.

Lagoonablue Fri 22-Nov-13 16:36:57

Can you not just sleep when baby sleeps when other child at school? At 3 weeks they sleep a lot during the day IME.

Sorry you are having difficulties but the sleep deprivation is normal. Most of us coped because we had no choice.

ReetPetit Fri 22-Nov-13 16:39:46

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MaternityNanny31 Fri 22-Nov-13 16:41:10

OP I feel for you, you are obviously suffering mentally and physically and the "help" you are getting from "staff" and mum/DH as such isn't a relief but more stress.

My suggestions is to employ a maternity nanny asap. They can get the baby in a routine and help with nights, someone like myself would happily go in their own car with a baby to pick up DC1 and either come home or occasionally pop to after school clubs etc.

Agreed it isn't too cold for baby/in sling under coat/in warm pushchair but may be too cold for your poor mum.
IMO The au pair is not what you want, A good nanny (who 24 hours a day) would cost £140 a day would be money better spent. As long as you have set sleep times and then are willing to help out/ become involved when your not having your designated time off then that is great!!
The Maternity Nanny would need solid sleep/own time during day though in return for the night time constant 24 working hours (mine is 2.5 not with newborn, but around 4 hours if newborn).

I would get an experience Mat Nanny who can involve you, support you and also involve your DC as sounds like she may be being left out of the situation/always with AP.

Best of luck

Reetpetit you need to back off. The OP is clearly not well and whilst yes, she does need to look realistically at what she has and what is reasonable for somebody in her situation to cope with she does not need you sniping at her. You've made your view clear. Now leave her alone.

Parsnipcake Fri 22-Nov-13 16:45:55

Perhaps she is Reet, but she is seeing a psychiatrist which is not a usual postnatal service. Mental distress is very different to sleep deprivation. Pampered or not she is clearly unhappy, which surely deserves some compassion.

Thurlow Fri 22-Nov-13 16:46:04

Jesus Christ, can I just report this whole thread? shock

OP is struggling and asks where she can find extra help.

Half the posters pile and slag off the OP, tell her to woman up, or do the always helpful "well I was tired but I coped, so so should you."

OP, I don't have any advice on agencies, I'm sorry, I just couldn't read this and let people suggest adoption because you are tired and struggling. I hope you find the support that you want and get the rest you desperately need.

Fucking hell. Seriously, MN at it's worst.

NomDeClavier Fri 22-Nov-13 16:47:22

*reeti I think what's coming across loud and clear is that the 'help' isn't helping....

Thurlow - there is clearly a context to this thread in that the OP has posted before. I do think actually it is helpful to some degree for the OP to know that others have survived this situation and worse. SHe is not alone, she is not isolated in this experience. It's not helpful at all though for her to be slagged off. I agree with you and have reported posts which do that.

SolomanDaisy Fri 22-Nov-13 16:57:39

Some of the responses to the OP have been disgusting. This is a woman in clear distress, struggling with a young baby and a mental health problem. Have a fucking heart.

OP, if you can get through to Monday your psychiatrist might be able to help you make some decisions. I agree that a maternity nurse and sleeping tablets sound like the solution for you, but you obviously need specialist mental health support to make decisions.

daughterofafarmer Fri 22-Nov-13 16:57:45

Personally I think the OP needs to be honest about the 'real' issue here, and sadly it's mental health. Until that is address, the rest is pointless. You have plenty of help, but it's not the help you need.

As I've send before you NEED to speak to someone, anyone. Go to your GP and take DH will you.

SoonToBeSix Fri 22-Nov-13 17:02:51

Op am sorry if you feel I was too harsh .I was just frustrated, believe me I have been there with the hallucinating etc.
Also it's good to be logical, you obviously need more sleep and if it's noisy when your mum is there ear plugs might be a solution. And I really do think counselling would be a good idea rather than more help.

AmyMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 22-Nov-13 17:07:03

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your reports. We've been through the thread to delete comments which we felt were beyond the pale, but please do flag up any you think we've missed.

We'd appreciate it if everyone could bear it in mind that that our aim is to make parents' lives easier by sharing advice and support. Parenting isn't easy at the best of times, especially with a new baby, and we hope the OP's situation starts to improve soon.

daughterofafarmer Fri 22-Nov-13 17:07:16

Re appointment on Monday, who is going with you?

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 17:18:10

Very many thanks amymumsnet.

I started this thread simply to ASCERTAIN HOW TO RECRUIT A NANNY!!!!!!!!!!
I am very glad I am strong enough not to be upset by some comments.

Regrettably resigning from mumsnet and will warn other parents to be careful b4 asking questions.

Thank you for constructive advice, sympathy and understanding.

Guitargirl Fri 22-Nov-13 17:22:40

OP - please go back to your GP or speak openly and honestly with your psychiatrist. It seems as though your AP is causing you more anxiety than help. Ask her to leave, get a weekly cleaner (nobody's house needs more than that IMO), sleep when your mum has the baby. Does your 5 year old's school have an after-school club that she could go to, at least until you are more settled? I would not take sleeping pills with 2 young children in the house, especially one as young as your baby.

comemulledwinewithmoi Fri 22-Nov-13 17:29:44

Come on, line up...ill hand all of you who are so fucking perfect your brownie badgeshmm

Honestly, this thread has a lot of shitty comments. It doesn't matter if you coped, what matters is op isn't.

When wi you be happy, when she is admitted to a mother a md baby phyc unit?

Op, good for you, looking for help, sorry people have been so harsh.

OneStepCloserIWillExterminate Fri 22-Nov-13 17:34:19

Katie, this thread is so sad. Life isnt a competition as to who has it hardest. There has been some kind posters here giving really helpful advice, dont let the horrible comments hide that. I really hope you get the help you need. Take care.

DoItTooJulia Fri 22-Nov-13 17:34:21

OP, ignore the horrible posts.

Are you ok? How are things now, any joy with getting some help and sleep?

Reet, as northern said, back off. You're not doing OP or yourself any favours.

comemulledwinewithmoi Fri 22-Nov-13 17:38:58

Please don't leave mn, usually is a great support. I know you've had a rough rude, when you need us most. Give us another chance.

I for one have no problem with people having as much help as they can afford/need.

My baby is 1 and I want a cleaner, child are etc...if I could I would.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 18:40:00

Thing is yes op needs help - and yes some replies were a bit harsh and others deleted when I've back to this thread so didn't read what they were

but we have suggested diff types of help the past week and op has done anything about it

The original title of thread - you don't need a 4/730 nanny - you have an ap - get her to buck her ideas up and take dd out after school to give you peace as she's noisy - but also be nice for dd to have special time

Get a night nanny (I've offered to help you next week as have week off) or a mat nurse

Wear earplugs when granny is about and rest

Talk to dh but maybe as others have said he thinks you are ok as have ap and your mum and yes someone does have to pay for the help/mortgage etc

Also think dh is a doctor /works in hospital - or did I imagine that ?

DoItTooJulia Fri 22-Nov-13 18:43:23

She hasn't employed you Blonder. You forgot to add that.

Mind you, I'm not surprised.

DoItTooJulia Fri 22-Nov-13 18:43:46

Blondes. Bloody autocorrect.

decaffwithcream Fri 22-Nov-13 18:45:18

Night Nanny that another poster suggested sounds like a good idea, and more useful than an au pair?

It is very difficult when you become anxious about sleeping.

I would bring your DH to the next Psychiatrist appointment. Sometimes hearing it from a professional makes all the difference.

TerroroftheAutumns Fri 22-Nov-13 19:48:59

Indecisiveness and the inability to cope or sort out ones own problems can be an integral part of some mental health conditions. It is not helpful to berate the OP for being unable to take on board advice.

In places thread has been mumsnet being cruel sad, and I do hope the OP sees the supportive responses and sticks around.

kalidasa Fri 22-Nov-13 20:23:09

I am quite shocked by this thread. I had a severe postnatal depression after only an hour or two's sleep in the first few days (and was also struggling with a slow recovery from very bad SPD - had been in a wheelchair at the end of pregnancy) and all the professionals I saw were very clear that it was imperative that I slept, and slept at night (making it up during the day is not really enough if your mental health is very fragile) at least every other night. Otherwise post-natal psychosis is a real risk and it sounds as if the OP here is in a high-risk category for that. OP, if you are still reading, if your husband or mother is really not able to do at least every other night then someone else needs to. If you are finding it impossible to call an agency and hire a maternity nurse to cover the nights for you then can you ask your mother to take over and do the admin to sort something out? If your psychiatrist thinks sleeping pills or some other kind of anti-anxiety medication is a good idea to help you relax and sleep then you should take that advice.

Jollyb Fri 22-Nov-13 20:43:58

OP. I'm too shocked by some of the replies on this thread. Sleep deprivation and PND are not a good combination (been there). I really hope you feel better soon.

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 21:05:16

Have slept for 3 hours, martyred myself enough 4 some of u?!

Am not letting some of u chase me away from a valuable resource.
Again, I only wanted advice on how to recruit a nanny.
How did this thread end up with 90+ posts?
How I spend money is NOTHING 2 do with u.
Am I asking u 2 pay for it?

Have asked dh to accompany me to psych appt on mon.
My xmas invite has been cancelled cos friend doesn't want her there if a problem with dh.

Thanks Kalidasa, same advice as NHS psych gave me.
Sleep deprivation is used a method of torture.

DanceWithAStranger Fri 22-Nov-13 21:15:02

You need a night nanny. Cocoon is a good agency - we got a nanny from them for a week when we night weaned DS.

Mnyoucleverboyandremember Fri 22-Nov-13 21:27:50

That's a good idea. I hope you find a solution soon so you can get some sleep. Things will get easier but I really feel for you right now.

WaitingForPeterWimsey Fri 22-Nov-13 22:16:38

Katie, sorry to hear you are finding things really tough at the moment.

Can your mum come and help you this weekend with the specific idea of setting up sensible Childcare for you? Eg she helps you write nanny ads/email agencies? Is it an option to start off with blondes? She has been posting here for a long time and you can carry out all the usual employer checks on her of course.

Don't worry about nasty posts. I posted here once looking for support re my then nanny who didn't like my my toddler and some posts on my thread got deleted too. Unfortunately not everyone here is sensitive to others' feelings. However, the support here can also be amazing.

JackyJax Fri 22-Nov-13 22:34:19

Hi Katie. Oh my goodness you sound as if you are under a lot of pressure. When you are sleep deprived, have had a newborn and have mental health issues ten it is very hard to think straightvandcto take decisive action. People who have been unkind to you are probably not really mean but are ignorant regarding your mental health.

I think you should get a night nanny who will help you settle bubs into a routine. She would mean you could sleep every night, something which you need. Maybe just get your mum to pick up daughter from school but not stay so long. Everyone seems shocked at all the help you are getting but sometimes having people in the house can be quite stressful .

I think it is very difficult for you to take action. Some posters have been getting frustrated by this but again, this is because they don't fully understand your difficulties. So maybe get your husband or mother to set everything up for you . It is too hard sometimes to sort things out when we are so low physically and mentally.

You obviously care v much about your children and are being sensible by real using that you do need help.

Please ask either your mum or husband to sort stuff out for you in terms of help. Then concentrate on your sleep, cuddling bubs and spending a little btw of time with daughter.
Sending you a very firm hug and wishing you all the best. When times are v difficult remember ,'this too shall pass'.

JackyJax Fri 22-Nov-13 22:36:18

Sorry-many typos. 'realising that you do need help'.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 22:55:40

waitingforpeter I have offered several times to come and help for a week - even tho is prob a 3hr round trip for me - while op sorts out what help she needs - better ap and a night nanny is my opinion - but she hasn't taken me up on my offer

Obv I would expect and want her to check my refs - I've been on mn prob 7ish years and many on childcare know me not sure if that is good or bad lol grin

I'm a NNEB nanny with over 20yrs sole charge exp of looking after children - from newborns (including twins) to 11yrs. I have excellent refs and obv have first aid/DBS and nanny insurance.

I'm Only free as the 6week old I've been looking after past month has a sickness bug and mum wants to look after her as feels guilty leavin her with me when healthy but knows she had to so got sleep every other night - but as poorly sad mum wants to look after her till better and I will go back. Totally understand her reasons

I have a new family to start with their 3rd child in dec.

Quite happy to have week off but also quite happy to help a fellow mn who is obv struggling

If op gets proper sleep during the night - she will be able to cope better during the day and possibly cut down on her mum coming over very afternoon - or keep the mum and spend a little time with dd after school.

comemulledwinewithmoi Fri 22-Nov-13 23:22:55

Best of luck op . And really dont respond to nasty comments, ignore!

Katiejon Fri 22-Nov-13 23:31:25

Ok, all points taken.
Again, not wanting to justify myself to others but here goes nothing:
Blondes, v grateful 4 ur advice and offer.
Will not take u up on it as I feel u have been hostile towards me.
Spent lots of time trying 2 find way forward, not aware had 2 submit time sheet to mumsnet stating how much time ive spent deliberating various options!
Am v upset by dh opposing me spending money on babycare, despite being told by drs I need to rest for pni and spd and csection.
Dh has forgotten lots of cars and mum has had to 'retrain' him, as if baby no. 1.
Ap with dd.
I am in constant pain from spd.

I want this thread closed, too much Katiejon bashing, so reporting to mnhq.
Thanks 2 those who have helped me.
The rest of u, I hope u r kinder to people in rl and NEVER have my experiences.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 23:47:44

Where have I been hostile to you?

On your past few threads where you have asked for help - myself and many mn'ers have given you advice on how/where to find somebody

You posted over a week ago saying you were shattered - needed sleep and needed help and we all replied that you needed either a temp nanny - night nanny - mat nurse - doula - mothers help or cleaner

We said call agencies who would find you someone - but seems you didn't want to take our advice

Not a problem you don't want my help smile - hope you do get help - but I have been helpful not hostile !!

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 22-Nov-13 23:50:16

Whoops hit post

Least you have norlander tomorrow smile

I hope she is helpful and you get rest and maybe she can work some extra days or nights for you smile

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 23-Nov-13 01:00:11

Blondes - hostile?? She has offered you advice (on several threads), she has been kind and patient and you throw it back in her face?

I hope the GP can give you the help you need.

You didn't need to spend 'a lot of time' you simply needed to call a couple of good agencies. People have made a fair few suggestions - none of which you seem to want to take? What do you want people to do or say?

Your DH would appear to be fairly useless, however, I am not sure you are in a position to assess the situation accurately.

What has your Mother said about all of this?

BellaVita Sat 23-Nov-13 08:58:52

I am laughing my head off at Blondes being hostile. She couldn't be even if she tried!

Have read through the thread and you have had a lot of very helpful advice OP, I suggest you read it through again when you are less tired or get your mum to read it and see what she thinks.

FWIW when DS1 was born 16 years ago, I lived no where near my parents in fact I lived 200 miles away. DH was very very poorly in hospital in the weeks leading up to DS1's birth and came out only about 9 days before. He was bedridden. To be fair, I kept this from my parents as they both worked then, if they had of known they would have been down like a shot. They only found out how poorly he was when he opened the door to them when they knew I had gone into labour and they made the journey down. They came on the Friday and left on the Monday after they had brought me out of hospital (I had a cs), they then had to go home. I was still left with a newborn and a very poorly husband. I left the housework. I just made simple things to eat. There wasn't online shopping then, but mum and dad got me a big shop in before they left. I coped, because I had to. There wasn't anyone else to do it. YOU WILL COPE, it has to be mind over matter sometimes.

SolomanDaisy Sat 23-Nov-13 09:36:25

Mind over matter isn't particularly helpful advice for someone with a mental health problem is it? You might as well tell her to pull herself together. She can't, she needs (and is receiving) psychiatric support.

OP you are plainly very unwell at the moment. I think you said you have a medical apointment next week? I hope that is useful.
A small number of posters haven't been nice - but those posts were reported by your peers and HQ have deleted. Blondes has NOT been hostile, she offered to come and help you. I hope you can look back at this thread with a clearer perspective soon. Have you showed it to dh? It might help him work through the situation. FWIW your oldest child is 5 and his probably scared of getting things wrong and upsetting you more which is why your mum has 'retrained' him.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 23-Nov-13 09:46:23

BelleVita - I know - if she was any more lovely she'd turn into a WoolleyHug! She's far more patient than me too! smile If I had been in the state the OP says she is in, I'd have booked Blondes a first class ticket on a train when she first offered to help before she had a chance to change her mind!! You don't get someone with that much experience, concern & general all around loveliness able & willing to drop things and come running everyday! << and no hassle, agency fees etc, what's not to love about that?? She would have sorted the baby, the Au Pair, the 4 yo, the OP, the DH & the Mum and left them all in a much better routine/state. Very odd not to accept. I hope the OP gets the help she needs from her GP.

ReetPetit Sat 23-Nov-13 10:09:01

will probably be told to butt out again, no doubt - but just to say - if you read the thread from the beginning, op was fine in the beginning - she is writing au pair lists etc, seems to be in control but just annoyed to be not getting the right amount of help/5 hours solid sleep (who has that with a 3 week old baby??) as the thread has gone on, people are now saying she is 'clearly unwell' I don't think she's as mentally unstable as you all think. Her dh sounds like he is a consultant or similar - hardly likely to be a complete arsehole - I'm not sure what more he is meant to do...

She has been offered advice and help -particularly by Blondes - anyone who was truly desperate would have taken her kind offer.

But no, op, has to have a 'norlander' As a nanny I found mothers in very high powered jobs seems to go to pieces when it comes to have a baby - its the loss of control, nothing to do with mental health.

She probably does have PND of some sort - in which case - she should be in contact with midwife/HV/GP - or her dh/mum would have been - they surely can't all be that idiotic that they would stand around watching a woman fall apart.

I'm finished on this thread anyway before you all start having a go....

Parsnipcake Sat 23-Nov-13 10:13:05

I think when life is feeling very out of control, a stranger coming in and offering to take control can be seen as threatening, when it isn't meant that way at all. I really think everyone needs to back off from the OP. she is under immense stress and is quite unwell. Telling her to get on with it, woman up etc is so unhelpful. I thought attitudes to mental health issues had changed, this thread has shown they haven't.
I'm not sure that anyone on MN can help OP at the moment, she needs her family and medical help.

Parsnipcake Sat 23-Nov-13 10:18:55

Reet. Loss of control is a key issue in mental health difficulties, especially PND and PTSD. I am not sure whether you are ignorant or just unpleasant but why not just back off? What difference does it make to you what the OP does?

MaryShelley Sat 23-Nov-13 10:26:19
I looked into this company but they didn't cover my area. Money are only london I think. Specific help for early yrs.

Jollyb Sat 23-Nov-13 10:29:31

Agree Parsnip. People are coming out with the sort of comments my mother made when I had PND. 'Sleep deprivation never killed anyone'. ' your grandmother spent one morning with me and that was all the help I had'. Really helpful thanks mum.

Having had PND with my first but not my second I cannot stress the difference in my ability to cope with lack of sleep etc this time round.

OP I hope you had a better night.

Jollyb Sat 23-Nov-13 10:31:35

Reet - her husband may not be an arsehole. Mental illness can lead to an irrational /skewed perception you know.

DanceWithAStranger Sat 23-Nov-13 10:31:42

I agree, Parsnipcake. Just from what the OP has mentioned she has had terrifying hallucinations and is seeing a psychiatrist - I have no idea why she's getting all the posters telling her they coped so she should too. She's had a lot of good advice on this thread but I don't think she's able to take it: she needs RL help.

OP, has your H talked to your doctor? Has he actually heard that you need sleep, at night, to protect your mental health?

SolomanDaisy Sat 23-Nov-13 10:40:15

Reet, have you actually read the fucking thread? She has a psychiatrist, she is beyond needing the help of a HV. She has had what sound like psychotic episodes. She is very, very unwell.

As for people berating a vulnerable woman for not welcoming a random internet stranger into her home. Seriously? That poster may well be a wonderful, experienced person, but how does OP know that? And no, she's not responding rationally, that is one of the problems with mental illness. She probably needs support from someone with experience of that.

giraffesCantGoGuising Sat 23-Nov-13 10:47:41

Hope you are ok op. I have known blondes on here and another forum for years, she has been through a lot herself and is just trying to help - sometimes the tough love approach works.

Take care op.
Blondes enjoy your time off smile

Blondeshavemorefun Sat 23-Nov-13 10:56:48

Sleep deprevation is awful. I said that before.

Op originally posted tue 12 nov saying she was shattered and needed help so she could sleep

We all said get a night nanny - originally op said she only wanted Norland that counts me out and btw thank you for the support and nice comments - I was trying to be helpful by offering my services for a week

I did wonder if I had been hostile but re read my replies - on all ops threads over the past 12days and no I havnt - all have been helpful smile and as I said fine If op doesn want my help and I hope she gets some smile

Reet is right. Op was fine at beginning of thread and others she has done - ap isn't helping and needs to get rid of

Many of is have offered advice and solutions but op doesn't want to take the advice and follow up on it

12 days has gone by and op hasn't made any progress in finding help so she can sleep - ring some agencies or get your mum to ring them and get 3 mat nurse or night nannies over and pick one - book for 3 nights for a week and if you/they are happy then extend booking

All this could have been sorted over a week ago

Once you have sleep op then you will feel better and more Human smile

Bubs needs to get into a routine and as bottle fed it will be easy and should be able to feed every 4hrs - and you can sleep when bubs does

Can dh do feeds tonight so you get a rest - or he does the 7pm and 10/11 and you go to bed at 7/8pm And sleep till bus wakes up hopefully 2/3am

What I don't get sad is if you were the same with dd then why isn't your dh/mum/hv/gp all working alongside with you?

I once had a job via a GPS recommendation as mum had pnd and so tired and gp advised her to get a night nanny so could sleep and she rang her local agency and they rang me

NearTheWindmill Sat 23-Nov-13 11:06:55

Now come on OP I suspect 15 or so years ago I wasn't in a very different place to you. I was scared because I'd had an abscess after my ds was born and had to have surgery; ds was early and by the time I got to hold dd she was my 5th pg and so lots of stress and trauma and to be honest I have blanks about the year ds2 died and dd was born.

I also had and have a husband who worked all hours and I was on my own from the day dd was 8 days old - except for an au pair who to be honest was like another child to feel responsible for. Unfortunately there are many jobs which preclude the father from taking paternity entitlements although when I had my children there weren't any and either your mother came to help or your husband took some annual leave. My mother came - for five days - and that was it and I would have loved to have had some help and support locally and I think you really do need to count your blessings there.

I didn't have a CS or PND to recover from and incredibly neither did I hit PND again. But I did pace myself and I did plan. DS was 3.5 and at nursery in the mornings. I was lucky because I was well enough to take him and collect him - it got me out and I took the baby too. The au-pair came into her own after lunch when she took him to the park and then again during the misery hours between 5 and 7.30. Au-pairs should not clean much you know and a cleaner can come in once or twice a week for that. I don't really understand why your au-pair needs to clean every day - a small house doesn't take much to keep clean and tidy and if you have a big one you don't have to use it all.

Other things I did to help myself were having a changing table downstairs and and upstairs to help with bending and I moved into the nursery with the baby to minimise being disturbed during the night and to get some rest. I also spent a lot of time resting with the baby during the day and a jolly good excuse it was too to just smell her adorable little head and drift and doze. Could you move into the nursery and perhaps bung a mini fridge and a cheap microwave in there to minimize getting up and down in the night. You can feed and doze if you have a comfy chair.

To be perfectly honest OP I don't think this is as much about child/baby care for the children as it is about an agreed clinical/social care plan for you to help you to recover from both physical and psychological trauma. I hope the appointment goes well and that you can get the support you need to start dealing with this objectively and logically and also to pull back a little control.

I am very sorry about the pain because I know how debilitating pain can be but I'm sure that will pass.

lotsofcheese Sat 23-Nov-13 11:11:59

This is a horrible thread. MN at it's worst: attacking a vulnerable, ILL, new mother with physical/mental health problems for not being able to "cope".

OP, I hope you are able to find a way of prioritising your health first. Would it help to write down a list of priorities, perhaps with someone trusted & on your side eg your mum? It might not seem so overwhelming after that?

Parsnipcake Sat 23-Nov-13 11:12:33

Mental health issues are complex though - people who are quite delusional ( not saying the OP) can begin a conversation quite normally, and then become more and more nonsensical with bouts of lucidity that leave everyone feeling confused as to what's going on. As for offering advice and solutions, most people don't respond to directive advice, we need to find our own solutions but can only do that when we feel safe and in control. ( this is the basis of psychotherapy). The OP may be a rich pampered woman but she has the hallmarks to me ( as someone who has worked with PND for 20 years) as someone with severe mental health issues. I would rather take the compassionate view and be wrong than take the sneering and 'get on with it' view and be wrong. Blondes, I don't think the OP is judging you, she is just in a bad place.

Blondeshavemorefun Sat 23-Nov-13 11:25:56

I'm not taking it personally parsnip smile yes I am a random stranger to her tho again so will anyone she uses from an agency - tho a reg on mn - and as said previously I would expect op to check refs of anyone she lets into her house - mine included smile

Let's just hope granny/dh/op rings agencies - I don't know any ones based near her - and gets help in for hopefully tomorrow night smile

NearTheWindmill Sat 23-Nov-13 11:28:51

The other thing I was going to suggest about taking your dd to school if it's a 20 minute drive is could you possibly arrange for her to be taken by taxi perhaps with a local friend in the mornings and then the friend's mother could bring her back after school. Up until Christmas that would be cheaper than 2k on the car insurance. I have friends who have done this with a local firm; it was a regular job and the same driver, who came to meet them first, did it every day. He was localish and I think the parents even contacted the local Imam to check him out. We are London too.

WaitingForPeterWimsey Sat 23-Nov-13 11:51:50

I had an ap as a sahm with one baby and a v supportive DH. I had just had a serious op and wasn't well. Physical pain and one baby are hard enough to cope with. I think you have a lot on your plate at the moment op. Hopefully this weekend your mum can help you decide on what Childcare would help you most.

Reet, I think your posts show a real lack of empathy with the op. Have you never been in a position where everything felt so overwhelming that even making a positive decision on how to sort it out felt beyond you? Tbh I wonder whether the reason the mothers you were nannying for 'fell to pieces' could have been that they sensed you were quite critical and lacking in understanding towards them, as you have been to op? I was so glad my ap was sympathetic.

Katiejon Sat 23-Nov-13 13:01:56

Wasn't going to post again but wanted 2 update u all b4 I slept.
Thanks 2 all those concerned 4 me, a perfect stranger.
Not a rich pampered woman, I drove the same car for 15 years until last year, without power steering.
Getting a Norlander reassured me am getting someone trained and experienced.
I feel hungry 4 the 1st time since baby born.
Blondes, sorry if I upset u, very hard 4 me to think rationally.
PM me please, I need daytime help.
I collapsed last nite.
Told dh I need more sleep and want 2 walk out the door.i was distraught.
Told him if I go 2 psych on Mon like this, will be given ad's, and its his fault 4 working WHILE ON PATERNITY LEAVE AND NOT TELLING ME AND EXPECTING ME 2 LOOK AFTER 2 ON MY OWN WITH PAIN TRIGGERED BY BEING UPRITE.

DH originally opposed me having xtra help, I cant move much yet he expected me 2 look after 2 on my own.
He can't do it on catnaps but expects me to do it!
Clinical social plan v good idea.
V angry cos will now be diagnosed with pnd and I did everything I could to avoid it.
Yes, I know diagnosis will lead 2 treatment.
Not my fault dh doesnt think about me.

Katiejon Sat 23-Nov-13 13:12:59

Am not feeling sorry 4 myself.
Doesn't that imply I'm trying to get help!
FYI, anyone can be a mat nurse, nanny etc.
Any sensible, responsible parent would ask for experience and quals, can't just pick joe bloggs from internet, not if u want to ensure ur children r safe.
Anyone remember recent cases of paedophiles working in nurseries?
So sorry for not trusting just anyone with my children!

Shoutymomma Sat 23-Nov-13 13:17:07

But you aren't on your own. You have your mother, hired help and lots of people on line trying to help, too. Someone has even offered to come to your home and help. You have physical issues which require medical assistance. There is no shame in having mental health issues requiring professional help. Why be angry about having pnd? People with pnd are most often perfectly good parents from all walks of life. Take a deep breath and put your ducks in a row. Then have a bacon sandwich and a glass of wine.

TalkativeJim Sat 23-Nov-13 13:22:27

You don't sound as if you are feeling sorry for yourself.

You sound utterly disassociated, probably due to sleep deprivation.

While your psych will be doing the right thing diagnosing as he/she sees fit, make sure you UNDERLINE the effect of your husband's inadequacy on you and the family.

And spell this out very clearly to your H: right now, you are too tired and ill to do anything except flounder. But while you might recover from this, you won't necessarily recover from or forget about his attitude when the chips were down. Tell him he is marking his card and every day sees you move closer to a decision in the future to remove him from the family. And he'll have a lot less time to do extra work on a Saturday when he finds himself looking after his children solo during contact.

No Talkative, the OP threatening her husband isn't going to help anyone. SHe needs to articulate how desperate she is and she needs medical help. She does not need to up the domestice ante with threats of divorce.

NearTheWindmill Sat 23-Nov-13 13:28:16

OP I think you need medical help. There is nothing to be ashamed of about taking anti-depressants if you need them. You sound ill and very unhappy and I wonder really if you will only get complete rest if you are admitted to hospital for a little while until you are properly on your feet again. It sounds as though it will be very difficult for even the best qualified nanny to help you at the moment.

I am sorry you are going through this and hope the help you need isn't too far away.

I've met Blonde's btw and think she would have been as good as her word.

I'm not going to tell you to have a bacon sarnie and a glass of wine - I think a nice cup of tea and some cheese on toast would be better. I bet you don't even eat bacon wink

whattoWHO Sat 23-Nov-13 13:37:29

It sounds very tough for you OP.
Please get your DH or DM to make some calls yo get a few temp nannies in for you to sounds to me that you are angry that you need support, and that you are crying out for your DH to realise that you need him to help/organize help for you.

Katiejon Sat 23-Nov-13 13:41:16

Disassociation, yes, I think so.
Feeling of being in a dream, caused by severe stress/trauma/upset.
Had it after my grandfather dropped dead of ruptured aortic aneurysm, literally just after being told my grandmother had breast cancer.
Wanted to walk out cos feeling overwhelmed.
Not to leave dh and dc's.
Off to sleep now.

WaitingForPeterWimsey Sat 23-Nov-13 13:57:33

Sleep well Katie.

There are lots of us here ready to give you some virtual support.

Blondeshavemorefun Sat 23-Nov-13 13:57:57

You havnt upset me smile - I'm tough skinned - had to be during the past few years smile

You say you need help in daytime but tbh I think you need help at nighttime so that you get sleep

Daytime you have your mum and ap - if she can't look after dd 4/7pm then she needs to go and get another ap - or a mothers help who will also clean a bit. Your mum does 2-8 with bubs

If you got a decent nights sleep you will be able to cope with the morning easier.

My offer stands to help you with nights this next week - have a serious think - and if not me then please get another night nurse /mat nurse in.

All I want for you is to get a few nights decent sleep - you will view things differently then -

I don't understand dh reluctance in getting someone in to help you sleep - unless it's cost - as I said on your 1st thread it is a huge cost - but one that many parents decide its worth it for their sanity.

windmill you are obv a nc unlike me lol - glad I met you but not sure who you are grin

Message me smile

IComeFromALandDownUnder Sat 23-Nov-13 14:15:13

Hope your ok Katie. Hope you get all the support and help you need. Take it hour by hour, rather then day by day. You WILL get through this x

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 23-Nov-13 14:27:07

OP I think you need to show this thread to your mother or DH. There is good advice here, but you are obviously unable to comprehend or act on it at this time.

Two pieces of information that are key;

1. Yes, anyone can call themselves a nanny. A good agency will not take on anyone. They will only take on qualified/experienced nannies. Ask for an Ofsted registered nanny with qualifications and experience and that is what they will send. You are clearly not in a position to recruit your own nanny, you MUST trust an agency. You are going round and round in circles.

2. You say you need sleep. You say you need sleep at night. Now you say you need help in the daytime. NO. If you need sleep at night you need help at night time. Days are ok with the school, the au pair and your mother covering most of it. Get some help for night time.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 23-Nov-13 14:28:17

Blondes could you PM the OP your agencies details? Maybe if she can verify you're from a reputable agency she would feel more comfortable.

Apparentlychilled Sat 23-Nov-13 19:33:26


I hope you manage to get the help you need, both from health professionals and some kind of nanny/mother's help. I second all comments saying ignore unhelpful posts- it's not a competition and if you have the means to get additional support to top up your Mum's help as well as AP, go for it. Look after yourself and don't worry about anyone but you, your DC and your DH. I've had PND, though without the psychosis, so j empathise and hope practical things get sorted soon, allowing you to feel better.

SootikinAndSweep Sat 23-Nov-13 19:43:44

Katie, there's nothing wrong with taking ADs if you're not well mentally at the moment. Why wouldn't you? They will help to reduce your anxiety to a more normal level which will help you sleep.

Agree, what is the problem with taking ADs? If you had a headache, you would take a paracetamol. You are ill, you need treatment and medication (particaully as I get the image that whatever treatment you're currently receiving is not working for you). It's NOBODIES fault that you need to take medication, and in fact it can be a wonderful thing.

I took anti depressants and anti psychotics last year after the birth of my son. I had to, I was seriously ill. I believed that my baby belonged to someone else, that this was not my child. I hallucinated about his real mother coming to collect him, I was very nearly sectioned because of this.

Once they began working it was brilliant. I could think without these constant conflicting emotions crashing down on me. I could be rational. They did not turn me into a zombie, I still cried, but the crying had a definite reason, rather than 'I am so confused and everything is shit and I don't understand anything right now". Medication gave my brain the chance to slow down, the chance to process thoughts and the ability to deal with issues. I think you need them.

If you are worried about choosing the right nanny, ask your mum to help you. You trust her with your child, so she should be able to give good advice on who to choose.

Katiejon Sat 23-Nov-13 22:34:24

Visualise, how awful 4 u.
I had ad's after my grandfather died.
I responded v well to prozac, but with dry mouth and vivid dreams.
Prescribed sertraline by gp when ill after dd, not referred to psych, I ended up with drug induced mania and had to be admitted into hospital, shopping in tesco at midnite!
Yes, ad's r wonderful, but I will have to endure side effects and v close monitoring.
Nanny today wonderful.
Hsbnd objected to cost, despite earning 3 her daily rate.
Hsbnd not doing extra work to put food on table.
Told him, what price ur wife and children well-being?

Quite right - he needs to look after you all, as you would look after him if he was ill. The cost will not be forever, just for the next few weeks or months while you get better.

I took Quatiapine (not sure on spelling, pronounced ka tie a peen). It had a serious sedative effect on me, fell asleep within 15 minutes of taking it and slept for 15 hours straight! And that was half the recommended dose! I could only take it while staying with my mum, so she could look after the baby while I slept. I also took Sertraline and luckily didn't have any bad side effects. Would you not consider Sertraline again?

TiredFeet Sun 24-Nov-13 01:15:46

Just wanted to send some sympathy. I remember the utter awfulness of sleep deprivation that makes you hallucinate. I hope you find the support you need

mrswishywashy Sun 24-Nov-13 07:55:20

I'm a maternity nurse and worked with a mum who had post natal pshchosis and PND and was hospitalized twice before I started. Please get help in now I've left comments on your other threads on how to find someone and also I can help you find one of my professional colleagues to help. I have attended a maternity nurse conference this weekend and there is many professionals that could help you.

The mum I mentioned earlier was heavily medicated and had three times weekly pysch meetings a week at the beginning. I was sympathetic to her needs and we worked at building confidence with baby. I was there full time because she had walked out and left baby so much better to get help now before this could happen to you.

It's a hard position to be in but it will get better however right now you need someone to do night cover so that you can sleep. Please get night cover.

SootikinAndSweep Sun 24-Nov-13 08:37:00

Tell the doc on Monday about your experiences on ADs, there may well be a different drug they can prescribe.

Katiejon Sun 24-Nov-13 08:48:57

Dh doing nite feeds, his tiredness will b the only way he will accept nite nanny
I feel better, he feels lousy! Good..
Have emailed agencies last nite.

lotsofcheese Sun 24-Nov-13 09:10:35

I'm glad your DH is doing some night feeds - men always seem to be able to avoid these as they generally work during the week - no excuses at the weekend though.

Sleep makes things so much easier to deal with, I'm glad you've had some. Hopefully you're psychiatrist appointment on Monday - perhaps a management plan &/or medication.

Blondeshavemorefun Sun 24-Nov-13 09:53:29

Glad dh is doing nights now

Wear ear plugs and sleep

What agencies are you using?

LifeTooShort Sun 24-Nov-13 10:59:07

I have used a night nanny and I highly recommend it if you can afford it (£200 per night) even if it is just for a couple of nights a week. She worked 10pm until 8am which allowed me to get the 8+ hours sleep per night that I needed and that enable me to function properly during the day.

You have an AP who can clean, run errands etc. and it really doesn't matter if she is not perfect - so what if the house is a bit of a mess at this difficult time, no one is going to judge you for that and if DH doesn't like it he can put on a pair of marigolds and get cleaning. Make sure you stock up on ready meals so you don't have to worry about cooking. In fact, send DH out to do the shopping today so you are stocked up for the week ahead.

With enough sleep and once you are getting help with your PND and other issues, you should be able to manage your baby during the day with a little bit of respite in the afternoons when your mother is there. Let your mum take the baby and spent a little quality time with your DD in the afternoons. By the time 10pm comes around you will be ready to hand the baby over, take a bath to relax you and then into bed by 11pm for a good night's sleep.

We used Eden. They are a very reputable agency in Central London.

Best of luck and I hope you feel bette soon.

Poloholo Sun 24-Nov-13 21:45:52

OP I have hired a maternity nurse. Yes they are a stranger but if you use a sensible agency and get someone who has a track record and strong references, interview them yourself and you shouldn't have an issue. If you do then fire them.

Poloholo Sun 24-Nov-13 21:46:15

We also used Eden

Katiejon Sun 24-Nov-13 22:38:02

Took dd to ballet 2day by cab and later went 4 a v short walk.
Feel better but tearful.
Psych tomorrow and ok with medication.
I shouldn't burst into tears when confronted by dd homework, is under 7 years old!
Dh looking after baby.

Jollyb Mon 25-Nov-13 12:31:54

Well done Katie! Hope today goes ok with the psych. When I had PND brushing teeth was a major chore so a ballet lesson and homework is a great achievement.

Katiejon Mon 25-Nov-13 21:33:19

Hi. Update: Mum coming in from 11am, so I can sit down more.
Am walking like Mrs Overall (Acorn Antiques).
Prescribed Prozac.
DH said no point working Saturday if spending money on nanny! Result!
Big thank u to all those supporting me who helped me realise HE is being unreasonable, not me being lazy or pampered!
SPD pain worse than csection.

NomDeClavier Mon 25-Nov-13 21:59:56

'DH said no point working Saturday if spending money on nanny! Result!'

Result indeed.

comemulledwinewithmoi Mon 25-Nov-13 22:12:48

Fabulous.... He is on charge on Saturday!

Blondeshavemorefun Mon 25-Nov-13 23:26:52

fab news about dh - nice tbh that he spends some time with his kids smile

now he just needs to do every other night for you so you both get a good nights sleep every other night iyswim

did you hear back from agencies?

WaitingForPeterWimsey Tue 26-Nov-13 00:08:16

That all sounds great, Katie - sure dc will love having your DH around.

Hopefully Prozac will help you feel better and yay for your mum helping out too.

Katiejon Tue 26-Nov-13 05:04:19

Have found a nurse on personal recommendation. Ex paediatric nurse.
Need her cv and to checks refs.
Shall I move/start thread in mental health? Answers on a postcard.....

Told psych and dh not sure if suicidal or not but at end of tether.
Again, thank u all 4 strengthening me 2 stand up to dh.

WaitingForPeterWimsey Tue 26-Nov-13 06:51:27

Katie, that sounds like a very good solution - very good qualifications and a personal recommendation.

Please keep posting here if you'd like to - maybe useful for advice as you start off the maternity nurse. Or is she a nanny?

But yes do also start a thread in mental health as well - there is so much support on here and it really helped me with my mmc.

Apparentlychilled Tue 26-Nov-13 14:04:35

So glad you're feeling better Katie!

Theimpossiblegirl Wed 27-Nov-13 23:53:05

Really positive move forward, well done Katie. Onward and upward. x

Katiejon Thu 28-Nov-13 05:44:03

Feeling better cos ap able to feed, change & burp baby.
SPD flared up after going out.

Northern, Thurlow & Parsnip (and others), thank u for reporting comments and/or defending me.
Very pleased they were deleted b4 I read them.
Trying to read thread thru to act on positive comments/advice.

WaitingForPeterWimsey Thu 28-Nov-13 08:07:40

That sounds great, Katie. Sounds like things are very much better!

Really does sound like your mother is great to be helping out so much (presuming she still is) and like DH is being more understanding.

Onefewernow Thu 28-Nov-13 09:01:15

I don't have time to read the thread but if you are in a city- you are- students are brilliant for the timescales you need. Suggest you look at those on teaching courses or health related courses.

Worked well for us in the past. I have to say they were better than a lot of the NNEB ones we came across.

Katiejon Tue 03-Dec-13 14:58:02

Hi all.
Much calmer on Prozac and feeling better as csection healing.
Nanny on Sat was wonderful.
AP doing more childcare.
Am still only sleeping 3 hours at a time at the most, and so tired not sure if asleep or awake!
Have told dh checking refs of night nurse and will book her for 1 nite, or he can feed at 12 and 4 am, an hour each time, for 5 weeks straight.

Please don't post on this thread if you are going to attack me.

WaitingForPeterWimsey Tue 03-Dec-13 16:26:07

Hi Katie, really glad to hear the Prozac is helping and that the nanny was good. Is she coming again?

Really good to hear ap is doing more as well and c section getting better. How is the spd - is that getting better as well?

Sounds like things are much better, but I do sympathise about the lack of sleep - it's so tiring when you have a new baby.

Strix Tue 03-Dec-13 16:49:57

You need to look after yourself in order to look after your children. Especially as your DH is clearly not pulling his weight on the homefront.

I would make a list of the things that need doing, and ask him which ones he is able to take over. If he doesn't pick any, I'd choose for him. For example, he could hire and manage a cleaner whilst you hire and mange the childcare. He could identify which nights he will be on parent duty. Two nights per week seems reasonable if he is working.

You are not the first woman to have small children and a husband who doesn't take his share of the responsibility. But, knowing that others have travelled before you, doesn't make your path any easier.

Remember to take care of yourself so that you can take care of your children.

Katiejon Wed 04-Dec-13 23:09:04

Nanny coming when dh working on sat.
Have also found ex nurse as nite nurse. Good references.
Feeling stronger so able to properly supervise ap, who is good with kids but lazy with housework!

WaitingForPeterWimsey Wed 04-Dec-13 23:18:17

That all sounds great, Katie. If DH is working long hours and you need help then that is a good approach.

How long is the ap staying?

Katiejon Thu 05-Dec-13 00:48:24

Till June.
Will have 2 treat her as an ignorant teenager!
Knows what 2 do but lazy.
Ok to stay cos good with children.
Can think much clearer now.

Katiejon Thu 05-Dec-13 00:48:52

Ap not going to get a good reference though!

mrswishywashy Thu 05-Dec-13 03:38:02

I don't want you to feel I'm attacking you however I do think its unfair not to give au pair good reference. I so wish the whole au pair thing was regulated in the UK so people had better expectations. They should be used as a big sister/brother and not responsible for cleaning beyond very light duties. As you say she's good with children so maybe say positives like that especially if you are keeping her on until June which means she really can't be that bad.

Glad things are under more control for you.

Katiejon Thu 05-Dec-13 08:26:41

Hi wishywashy.
Will be good ref saying good with children, but will think carefully about cleaning reference.
She has asked 2 go home for her mum's birthday beginning Feb, didn't tell me until after she arrived.
I made it very clear to her and the agency that csection end of October and that's why I needed an ap.
Agency said is entitled to holiday, so I have to allow her to go, a great inconvenience to me!
Moreover, she didn't do much while I was in hospital for 5 days, I could tell, dirty floors, mucky bathroom.
Also, she will only do her hours if she is supervised.
Lazy teenager, but good with kids.

Strix Thu 05-Dec-13 09:19:08

She has no right to dictate her holidays. I'm afraid I think you are letting her walk all over you. You are the employer here and you need to take control of the situation.

This is a separate topic to this thread. I think you should start a new concerning your au pairs performance, you expectations, and how best to address when she doesn't meet them. However, be prepared for some strong comments (as often happens on these threads). Start with the job description, and get a feel for whether or not it is reasonable. Then address whether her performance is reasonable for an uapair, and then consider how best to manage the situation.

Right now it sounds as though you are unhappy (probably she is too), and it is not going to end well. You have a lot going on with new baby, existing child, not so helpful DH... you need rock solid childcare and household help to support you so you can be strong and provide for your children.

In my experience au pairs are easier to control / replace than husbands. So get that one sorted first.

Katiejon Thu 05-Dec-13 09:56:13

Hi Strix.
Being a lot more assertive now.
I can't face training a new ap, so will carry in with her.
If she wants to leave, that's up to her.

veee123 Thu 05-Dec-13 10:29:31

How are you going to call her a lazy teenager when your expecting her to do what you a grown arse married mother should be doing? ?? Flabbergasted.

Also your husband should not be doing night feeds if hes going to work everyday.

Also you have an au pair and your mum and you said you need five hours sleep at a time ! Wtf when you sign up for a baby you must realise you won't be getting lovely long sleeps but wait you already have a child so should know this.

This thread is crazy. Still can't get over you berating yhe au pair when you cant do anything yourself. If she's that bad get rid of her.

ReetPetit Thu 05-Dec-13 12:45:55

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Yerazig Thu 05-Dec-13 13:13:37

I'm sorry I think You have opened another can of worms by saying the au pair is like a lazy teenager. Don't think it will end well again on this thread. Yes she could of helped out more as your currently going through a bad patch trying to sort your self out but you can't really give a bad reference due to her not being great at cleaning. She's an aupair not a cleaner who does it for a job. You say she's good with your Child which you have employed her for not the fact she's not a good housekeeper. She can't be that bad if your still willing to employ her. If not pull your socks up there's hundreds of au pairs I can imagine would be willing and able to come ASAP.

Strix Thu 05-Dec-13 13:34:57

I am no expert on the matter as I have never suffered from this myself, but I think you are suffering from depression (quite possibly PND).

You are defensive, and putting more effort into criticising other people than you are doing something about it.

You are clearly depressed.

You are unable to sleep.

You are hallucinating about horrific events involving your baby.

This is serious stuff. You and your husband and your mother need very much to get to grips with what is going on. The potential consequences of not dealing with it are horrific.

You need help. Please ask for it.

Strix Thu 05-Dec-13 13:39:39
Katiejon Thu 05-Dec-13 14:05:17

Strix, I think u r right about pnd.
If I get new ap, no guarantee she will be better than the one I have.

Strix Thu 05-Dec-13 14:23:10

I'm not saying you need a new au pair. I am saying you need to manage the one you have. Whilst I have no experience of PND, I have huge amounts of experience with both au pairs and nannies.

You are not in control of your emloyer-employee relationship and it will only get worse. Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the issues because you can't bear the thought of hiring and training a new is more likely to make your life harder than easier.

mrswishywashy Thu 05-Dec-13 16:12:28

I agree that after all you've mentioned on here that you are likely to be suffering from PND. You need proper support please talk to your health visitor and person who prescribed Prozac. It is likely that drugs aren't enough and that you will need counseling to get better. Much better to source help now.

Re: au pair they are not there to clean bathrooms, ok maybe a quick wash of the floor but if you want proper cleaning then get a cleaner so that you no job is done.

My clients with PND have been very demanding with high expectations I feel this is part of the condition and as the clients have recovered they have relaxed some. It will be very tough for your au pair working in a house with so much stress so please take this into account. Re her work what have you got in place to make sure she does her duties. You are well within your rights to give verbal, written (and notice) warnings if she's not doing things however make sure what you're asking her is realistic.

I hope you get the help you need from what you've written on your threads I can really feel how vulnerable you are feeling at the moment a pro active plan in regards to baby and child care, cleaning, household tasks, husband and your health is what's needed so I do hope you can get some help in person.

romina Thu 05-Dec-13 17:07:15

FWIW I had terrible physical pain after birth of DS, developed PND very quickly (within days of birth), lived in a foreign country with no family or support and workaholic husband so I can empathise to a certain extent. I've also had a succession of APs...

Feel free to ignore all of this but my advice would be
- most importantly of all - concentrate on getting yourself well again - if the prozac isn't working, get back to the psychiatrist/GP. It's a medical condition. Talk to dr also about your pain levels - they need to get that under control as will also impact sleep, emotions, everything.

- agree a plan with DH and nanny/Ap - who does what, when. Get everyone to sign up to the plan (literally, on paper).

- Let AP go home in Feb - don't be mean - think how she's feeling away from home in what sounds like a very stressful situation/household (that's factual, not blaming). Don't decide now what references you will give her in June!

- don't expect professional cleaning from an AP - it's not their job - but equally what's the problem with letting things be less-than-perfect for a while - time moves on and you will get back to it.

- thank everyone liberally - be nice to them and they will be nicer to you (yes it's hard when you're in awful pain and incredibly tired, but it really does work)

- think what would make you happy - that is under your control - if you'd love to see beautiful flowers in the kitchen, order some. If you'd like a walk in the park, take one. If you'd like to have a friend over for coffee, invite them. Don't expected anyone else to do it for you though - no matter how unfair you might think that is.

- focus on what you can do today that you couldn't do tomorrow. If needs be, read back through just your own posts here and you will see how far you have already come.

Good luck!

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 05-Dec-13 17:17:42

glad you are starting to feel better smile

regards ap's - they are there to help look after generally school aged children 25ish hrs a week, normally before/after school and some do light cleaning/housework - ie emptying dishwasher

they are not there to do deep cleans/wash bathroom floors etc

try and hire a cleaner smile

many do not have exp of small babies and tech isnt their job to look after babies and can understand their fear reluctance sometimes , tho obv in your circumstances a bit of give and take would have been nice - not hard to watch a baby while they and you sleep and give a bottle if need be

regards holidays, maybe she thought asking for a week in feb, so possibly when baby was 12 weeks+ that you would be able to cope as baby would be in a routine and practically sleeping through the night and you hopefully would feel better

LIZS Thu 05-Dec-13 17:25:12

Some posters are being very harsh . Depression and/or pain, and medication for either of these, can skew perception and affect how someone deals with things.

Let AP take her holiday in Feb , if needs be maybe the nanny could cover some of the time, and you may all benefit from a break. Hopefully she would return enthused and helpful.

You could book a few hours of cleaning a week if not staying on top of that worries you. Don't expect AP to do it to your standard. Keep packs of wipes by the loo. Presumably even your dh could run a wipe around the kitchen and bathroom surfaces and put a wash on/hang up if pressed.

Katiejon Thu 05-Dec-13 21:11:54

Wipes in tesco delivery tomorrow. smile

Katiejon Thu 05-Dec-13 21:13:02

Ap don't wash floors but housewives do?

nbee84 Thu 05-Dec-13 21:31:35

Ap's are generally teenagers or young adults. They will not have the experience that a housewife has of running an (hopefully smile) efficient home and of all that it takes to keep on top of things. Think back to when you were younger and first living away from home and learning all about running your own - were your standards as high then as they are now several years later? I know that when I first lived away from home nothing got done during the week and I would have a major blitz at the weekend if I wasn't out on the town!

An ap should be able to help out with the running of the household - emptying the dishwasher, popping the hoover round, putting a wash etc etc on but they are not qualified housewives grin

romina Thu 05-Dec-13 21:46:58


An au pair is there to live as part of the family, learn the language and culture and in return help with childcare and light housework (eg dusting, dishwasher loading) for up to 25hrs a week. They are NOT an employee, but have a special status as part of a cultural exchange programme...

Therefore they do not do a lot of jobs that a "housewife" does. I've had many years of APs and have heard innumerable stories from their AP friends. Being asked to do too much/inappropriate/overly high standard housework seems to be the most common problem. If you want high standard cleaning - get a cleaner - and pay them 3-5 times as much per hour as most APs earn.

I do honestly sympathise that you are having a tough time - but as well as asking other people to understand your point of view, perhaps you should try to see theirs too?

veee123 Thu 05-Dec-13 21:54:00

Yes a house wife should be doing the house work. Your husband goes to work you need to bring something to the table if your not working. Au pair is not for major house work. You should be able to run yiur home.

Mrscupcake23 Thu 05-Dec-13 22:02:41

I know you are depressed but honestly your attitude towards other people is not good.

Why can't you au pair go back and see her family ? If she's as useless as you say you won't miss her too much.

I think you could also pick up a wipe and wipe round the bathroom.

SolomanDaisy Thu 05-Dec-13 22:26:14

Top advice there for a woman with spd, a recent caesarean and a mental health problem - just go and wipe the bathroom down dear.

Noctilucent Thu 05-Dec-13 22:44:08

Do not be too hard on yourself. Your baby is only 4 weeks old. You have a five year old. Your DH works - sometimes strange hours, if I recall correctly. You have had SPD, a Caesarean, problems with feeding and hardly sleep. You must focus on yourself, your baby and your daughter.

Your AP is meant to be a member of the family and as such, she is for light duties only, mainly basic childcare. If you can afford it, you probably could hire a part time nanny and a cleaner while you heal. Let your AP travel home - you will have made a decision, she will be happier, and you can plan for additional help while she is away.

For those who have commented on the OP's attitude - where is your sisterhood ? It is hard enough to have one child, let alone two against a cascade of pain and sleeplessness.

Katiejon Thu 05-Dec-13 23:00:02

I certainly have opened a can of worms.
I am doing some housework, but not v much.
Reet, please keep your nasty comments to yourself.
Am in favour of free speech, but not if it breaks guidelines.
Cleaner coming every 2 weeks, house MUST be kept relatively dust free as dd and I are asthmatic, me more than her.
I understand ap is young (20!), but how hard is it to hoover in the corners?
She works harder when she knows I'm watching.
Feeling better.

Katiejon Thu 05-Dec-13 23:04:15

Ap and her friend joining me for xmas lunch.
Have also emailed her parents to thank for baby gift.
Hardly something a selfish woman would do.

Theimpossiblegirl Thu 05-Dec-13 23:29:04

Keep ignoring the mean posts. most of us genuinely care and are here to support, not judge.

If an AP is meant to be part of the family, hoovering is something family would reasonably be expected to do.

The Christmas dinner invitation sounds lovely. Don't put too much pressure on yourself though. M&S prepared Christmas dinner side orders are the way to go.

LIZS Fri 06-Dec-13 08:25:30

Solomon I think you're twisting my meaning hmm . If things like wipes are to hand it is much easier to wipe down the basin if it looks like it needs it once you have used it , than to think it is dirty, scrabble around for cleaning items or wait in frustration for some one else to notice. It may even prompt others to do likewise - 30 seconds , done. I'm not suggesting op gets down on her hands and knees and scrubs ! In time she will recover physically and things will become less difficult.

I think you may be a bit ott in expecting AP to meet your standards like hoovering into the corners, especially if you have a clearer coming in each fortnight, but overall you sound as if you have a nice relationship with her.

WaitingForPeterWimsey Fri 06-Dec-13 08:42:32

Hi Katie, hope you are feeling ok today and continuing to get stronger physically and feel ok in yourself.

I understand the need to vent just a little about ap. they are not at an age where they see what's needing doing and that can be very annoying when you are yourself feeling run ragged!! Just remember to keep politely explaining what's needed and then leave the cleaner to do the proper cleaning. Ap definitely needs understanding and a holiday though and you can hire temporary help or get cleaner in more if needed for the time she is away.

I think a lot of people on here will be jealous of the amount of help you have and that's reflected in their responses. If help of that kind is beyond their means/they don't have much practical family support they may feel grumpy reading about the fact that you have the financial ability to get a hand and then are still (understandably) feeling overwhelmed sometimes.

You may want to ask MNHQ to move this whole thread to mental health, because I think you would get much more supportive responses and good support with your Pnd. If you report your own op, they will move it for you.

SolomanDaisy Fri 06-Dec-13 08:46:09

LIZS it wasn't your post I was commenting on, it was the post directly above mine.

Katiejon Fri 06-Dec-13 09:21:45

Have asked for thread to be moved to mental health.
Please do not follow if u r going to post negative comments - they may have a bad effect on a vulnerable person, not me, I ignore the negative ones!

Strix Fri 06-Dec-13 11:39:30

I am going to start that au pair thread on your behalf, katiejon. I hope you don't mind.

Although, I do think an au pair these days is an employee and not just an additional member of the household. They need set hours, set duties, and set pay in return for their work. Without these things it is difficult for either you or she/he to know what you have bothe signed up to.

JulieMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 06-Dec-13 11:43:03


We're going to move this thread into mental health.

We're wishing you all the best, Katiejon. thanks

WaitingForPeterWimsey Fri 06-Dec-13 13:40:37

Just thought it may be helpful (hope this is ok Katie) to summarise the thread, now it has been moved into MH by MNHQ.

Katie has been dx with Pnd and is taking Prozac. She also had spd and a recent c section and has been really struggling with sleep as well as physical recovery.

Katie gets some help from her dm, but her DH works long hours (he is a dr iirc). She has had a nanny in to help her as she hasn't felt able to cope alone, especially at night.

Although she has an ap, the ap isn't very self-starting and Katie has struggled to being up to manage her.

Any tips from anyone on here about dealing Pnd would probably be very helpful for Katie. I know this is a very supportive board, which is why I suggested she move her thread here.

Katiejon Fri 06-Dec-13 14:16:52

Waiting and Peter, v kind of u.
Not sure if depressed, more exhausted!

Katiejon Fri 06-Dec-13 14:23:17

Nanny on a Saturday only when dh working.
Dh booked himself to work on 3 Saturday's without telling or discussing with me.
I found out 3 days before csection, had to come home and start finding someone to help me.
Dh opposed nanny, saying inexperienced ap could do it.
Dh not doing extra work in order to put food on table.
Also had missed miscarriage oct 2012 (after seeing hb at 8 weeks). 9 weeks light bleeding.
2 x medical management and then erpc to clear lining.
The lochia now reminds me of the prolonged bleeding.

Katiejon Fri 06-Dec-13 14:24:23

I have not had nanny overnite, although I think I have found someone now.

Messupmum Fri 06-Dec-13 14:27:31

I wish I had all that support over the past four years struggling as a single mum with depression, anxiety and bpd, as well as starting off in a one bedroom top floor flat! I don't know where people have got the diagnosis of severe mental illness, yes op has a psych who's there to prescribe meds, but the hallucinations were five years ago with her dd? I may have got that wrong, sorry if I have. I have also hallucinated in the past year but was told it was due to sleep deprivation and meds, and they weren't too worried.

I'm sorry op is struggling and in physical pain, that doesn't help with the tearfulness and sleep. And I know anyone, no matter how wealthy, single or married, or mums with one or four kids, can be mentally unwell, but what I'm finding hard to sympathise with is the support op has. Not many mums can afford childcare, and have no choice but to clean and cook. I hope you have a good chat with your psych, op, take ads and use the support and appreciate it. Over time the physical pain will improve, and hopefully things will get easier.

WaitingForPeterWimsey Fri 06-Dec-13 14:59:05

Messup, I am so very sorry about your Pnd.

I think what we all need to try to remember is that it doesn't matter how many material advantages and help people have, they can still need help and feel they are struggling. Princess Diana allegedly had an ED and depression iirc and she must have been one of the best supported mothers in the world financially/practically. Money/help don't alter what is going on in our heads.

Katie, I know I proposed moving the existing thread, but I would actually suggest you delete this thread now, name change and start a new thread in mh for support specifically with Pnd. It is very difficult for people to look beyond what they will see as your advantages. Some of us do understand. Sending you all very best wishes.

passerby123 Fri 06-Dec-13 15:20:06

There is a separate discussion forum on MN about pnd under Becoming parent/Antenatal-postnatal depression.

HoopHopes Fri 06-Dec-13 19:08:00

Hi, having a young baby is exhausting and I can totally empathise about lack of sleep, previous stressful events and recovery from a c section. I found when I was 8 weeks post c section I was physically more able to do things ( without pain that is!!) so hopefully as each week goes by you will recover.

Lack if sleep is torture!! It does get better, honest - so hope you can hold onto that hope. And I do not think day's really understand what it is like, so try not to get so wound up if you can about your dh working, as they do not know what major surgery/childbirth/breastfeeding is like!

Recovery from pnd - medication helps, getting as much sleep as possible ( so yes, nanny, cleaner, family - if you got it, use it!!!)

Best advice is to speak to your HV - tell her about your symptoms, the help you think you need. They have post natal support groups for pnd they can put you in touch with. You can ask her to refer you to the peri natal mental health team who can assess you ( but it you already have a psychiatrist you would not receive treatment under 2 psych's). Also they can put you into group sessions to help you bond with your child as people with pnd do sometimes struggle with that. Children centres have support workers for mums with mental health issues or mums who are struggling with parenting, so you can request a support form if you think they could support you in parenting whilst suffering with pnd. So support there for people with pnd. Once a child is 18 months old there is much less support, as it is not in the post natal period and much less funding for adult mental health care so best to seek the support in these first few months.

If you want to go private then find a counsellor specialising in pnd is best.

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