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Problems with ds not looking after himself and dh not wanting to get him help

(81 Posts)
dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 08:18:19

ds has dropped out of uni and has spent a year at home. He has not signed on so just sponging off us. He went out with dh last night and I went in his room to get washing. It was squalid. Moth lavae in clothes and the carpet, wet towels, rubbish and plates and cups.
He came back and felt that his space had been invaded. We had words and I said keeping carpet clean is non negotiable as condition of living here. He stomped off to the river and I asked dh to follow him, take his phone and call police. Dh eventually went but came back without finding ds and refused to call police. ds came back later and I got out of the way. This is getting long, sorry. dh slept on the sofa. Back story = I work full time and dh doesn't. We have had major rows about cleaning as I do not have enough free time at the weekend to do it all. Dh won't let me get a cleaner. I want to get professional help for ds but dh doesn't. What can I do?

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 13-Oct-13 08:31:51

Sorry but I see red when hearing the words 'DH won't let me...' Get the professional help, get the cleaner and sod what DH will 'let' you do.

Fairylea Sun 13-Oct-13 08:37:40

Move out and leave them to it??

They sound as bad as each other to be honest. Both are taking you for granted.

Have you tried talking to your son calmly, not about housework etc.. what does he want to do for the future?

Ledkr Sun 13-Oct-13 08:38:26

Well I've raised three sons and two were also dirty and had smelly rooms but I still expect a room in my home to be at least habitable. They could be as messy as they liked but when it comes down to moth larvae if draw a massive line.
Why does your dh get to make all the bloody rules?
I also wouldn't be paying for cleaners when there are two grown men sat on their arses.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 08:48:21

Trouble is that I'm out at work and dh and ds are in (usually) so they wouldn't let the cleaner in! I have tried talking about options for the future to ds, and sometimes he is positive but he has not followed through yet. I've told him that I would like him to do a short course and to learn to drive and also to get his passport so that he could spend some time travelling, but no progress as yet.
I also have two dds, one still at home and I don't want to move out. Dh is good at some things, like washing clothes, but obviously he has not been noticing that ds has not been putting his in the wash.
I don't know where to start getting ds help. He thinks there are no jobs and is very down, and hasn't tried applying for anything to my knowledge.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 08:50:21

xpost ledkr. Moths are a massive line for me.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 13-Oct-13 08:53:51

Agree with a PP. Two grown men home all day (not to mention DD) and the place is still a mess? DS sounds like he needs intervention and micro management. Daily room inspections, daily progress reports on job applications, daily list of chores to complete. He will complain like hell about intrusion of privacy or whatever but that's the only way you're going to motivate him to get out.. make life a lot less cosy. DH has to either support this or shut up.

Glimmerberry Sun 13-Oct-13 08:56:12

How old is your DS? Could he be ill or have a drug problem? Dropping out of uni, self-neglect, withdrawing could be no more than existential angst/ laziness...but could be something more. The fact you wanted to call the police suggests maybe you feel there's something serious happening?

Offred Sun 13-Oct-13 08:57:06

Why doesn't your dh work?

Surely you are never going to get ds into real life while his dad is also avoiding?

Also why does dh get to dictate everything despite doing nothing?

I'd say your ds would stand a much better chance of living life if you kicked dh out!

LIZS Sun 13-Oct-13 08:59:40

Have you explained your expectations to ds or is this as it has always been ? If he is at home he can do chores and keep his room sanitary - make a checklist for him if needs be. On a different note why hasn't he signed on and what efforts if any does he make to get out of the rut? Is he clueless , depressed, too comfortable, unmotivated ? Likewise dh needs to pull his weight . However cleaning doesn't need to take that long , what takes up so much of your weekend that you can't manage basics.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 08:59:47

I didn't say dh doesn't work. He just doesn't work full time.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 09:07:00

LIZS. I've tried. Dh doesn't support me with the chores thing as he finds it easier to do things himself than ask ds. He tried to sign on but couldn't manage to do it. I think he is depressed.

As far as me not managing basics goes, Ds not letting me in his room and having two grown men sat on there arses as ledkr said. I am also away a lot of weekends looking after my mum who is bedbound. I can't manage the basics, I've admitted that. I don't want to spend my rare weekends cleaning up after them and would rather pay a cleaner, so there.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 13-Oct-13 09:08:10

You can ask your GP to pay a house-call if you think DS is depressed.

CailinDana Sun 13-Oct-13 09:08:28

How is your relationship with your dh?

LIZS Sun 13-Oct-13 09:10:26

how old is ds and why did he drop out ? If you're away then a quick wipe of the kitchen , toilets and hoover shouldn't be beyond 2 grown men hmm

Offred Sun 13-Oct-13 09:10:47

I see but still, ds likely taking his lead from your dh. Would be unsurprised if your dds are go getters as taking example from you.

Living like this must be really horrible for ds. I have sympathy as was very depressed as a teen (younger than him). My problem was abusive parents who were crushing my self-esteem/hope but never had moths in me bedroom! Think getting help for your ds is the only way, you need to work out what is causing his lack of hope.

Still think dh is a problem though. Sitting around doing nothing but expecting to be the boss.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 09:23:47

ds is 21. He dropped out because he chose the wrong uni, didn't bond with the other students in his house and withdrew into his room and didn't tell us for months... Lecturer told me his work at the start was really good so that was not the problem.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 09:24:25

dds are go getters grin

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 09:43:50

Dh has put some washing in, brought me a coffee in bed but will not engage to talk about ds. I don't know how our relationship is, not brilliant I suppose. It would be much better if he agreed with me over ds!

CailinDana Sun 13-Oct-13 09:46:59

Do you know why he won't talk about your ds?

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 09:51:42

Probably because we always disagree. I want him to be much tougher with him, dh is much softer...

Fairylea Sun 13-Oct-13 09:53:24

You say you're trying to encourage him to go travelling, who is going to fund that? Please don't say you.

He needs to stand on his own two feet. Does he have friends, a social life? Would he consider a part time job in a bar or retail while doing some sort of course? Bar work particularly would boost his confidence and get him to meet some new people.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 10:09:27

He would fund his own travelling out of an inheritance. I thought it would make him grow up and go some way to filling gaping hole in cv. He doesn't have a social life other than saturday outings with dh to play games. Friends have drifted away. Part time jobs are hard to come by around here (think depressed northern town) although I did suggest when Christmas recruiting was happening last month. I've also suggested trip to volunteers centre.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 10:10:51

Thanks for all the replies, this is helping me think. Off for a swim for an hour.

Kernowgal Sun 13-Oct-13 10:23:58

I have some experience of a similar situation as my brother has now been living at home for nearly four years and in that time has never signed on. My parents had their heads in the sand about it (long backstory) and he had basically been left to his own devices. I think he'd had a breakdown of sorts before he moved back home but this was never talked about. He has severe anxiety in certain situations.

I got fed up with my mum complaining about the situation but doing nothing about it so I told her to make him an appointment with the GP to go on ADs. He did for a while and then came off them, saying he didn't like the way they made him feel numb. Cue two more years of him spending all his time in his room, doing next to nothing around the house, mum and dad giving him money. I asked him if he was applying for jobs and he said he hadn't seen anything locally. This is bullshit, there are hundreds of jobs in our neck of the woods. I'd had enough again so I told her to make another GPs appt and get him back on the ADs, which has now happened. I also got on to a local place about volunteering, sent him the info and told him I'd be on his case until he sent them the forms. He's now done that and I'm hoping the routine of going once a week and interacting with new people will help him. My parents are pleased but to be honest this should have happened as soon as he moved back.

Anyway, upshot of this is: make him an appointment at the GP and get him prescribed with ADs or beta blockers or whatever he needs. Then give him a list of jobs around the house, nothing too onerous, but with deadlines. I firmly believe that someone's self-worth is dependent on them feeling like they're making a useful contribution, even if it is just ticking off a load of housework tasks that someone else has asked them to do.

TBH, OP, it sounds like your DH is taking advantage of you being rushed off your feet to shirk his responsibilities. Time for a shape up or ship out talk methinks.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 11:33:52

shape up or ship out talk to ds, or to dh, or to both?

I did buy a magnetic white board for the fridge a few months back and write a list of jobs on it but it disappeared. Maybe time to get a bigger one and nail it to the wall...

Lweji Sun 13-Oct-13 11:39:11

I'd say both.

If your OH is not pulling his weight, not financially nor work wise, what is he doing at home? Sponging off you, as your DS is?

It's not his space, is it? It's yours, in your home.
And if they don't allow a cleaner (WTF?) they should do it themselves.

What's your home situation? Do you own or rent? If you were renting, I'd be tempted to leave and let them to it.

specialsubject Sun 13-Oct-13 11:47:02

why do you bother? You seem to be provider and cleaner, where's the fun, respect etc in your life?

from what you tell us, you are married to a lazy individual and have bred another. You and the girls deserve better.

I also vote for 'shape up or ship out'.

Fairylea Sun 13-Oct-13 13:44:56

Where has this inheritance money come from?

I wonder if he is using the fact he has some money (and I'm assuming it's a reasonable amount if you're suggesting he can fund travelling from it) as an excuse to sit on his bum and not do anything.

Do you think that might be the case?

Juliaparker25 Sun 13-Oct-13 15:36:47

He is doing dope ....My DD did this at Uni and is still suffering 10 years later with all sorts of mental problems.....It affects some people that way , he needs professional help , ok he should not have indulged but when they are that young they, as you are aware, know everything , but we know they absolutely don't .............

Twinklestein Sun 13-Oct-13 16:20:48

The fact that he dropped out of uni after withdrawing to his room indicates fairly major problems. It's quite possible that he is suffering from depression or anxiety or both. To not even manage to sign on implies problems coping with that situation, if it's not just bone idleness.
The fact that he now only goes out once a week with your husband adds to this picture.

You need to get to the bottom of the what the issues are here: is it simply laziness & apathy; or does he need mental health treatment to get him back on track.

I really agree with Kernowgal's post:

Anyway, upshot of this is: make him an appointment at the GP and get him prescribed with ADs or beta blockers or whatever he needs. Then give him a list of jobs around the house, nothing too onerous, but with deadlines. I firmly believe that someone's self-worth is dependent on them feeling like they're making a useful contribution, even if it is just ticking off a load of housework tasks that someone else has asked them to do.

I don't think it is at all sensible to encourage him to travel abroad in his current state, if he has difficulty making friends, he could spend a very, very lonely time that would not be good for his mental health.

Perhaps that could be a longer term goal?

As per the cleaner: you work full time, you pay a cleaner if you want to. Give your husband the choice of either a) cleaning properly or b) paying someone else to do it.

Rosencrantz Sun 13-Oct-13 16:33:12

Why hasn't your son signed on? That is non negotiable in my book. MAKE him get off his arse.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 17:14:12

I don't know how to physically make him sign on. If dh had taken him down originally maybe it would have helped. As I understand it he went down and was told to wait for a phone call for an appointment that never came. Have just had a shouting match with ds and he has admitted that he was starving himself in his room at uni before I found out from his tutor that he had dropped out (long story - he wasn't answering his phone and so I asked if he had been in lectures) Apparently I have always shouted at him. Never respected his space. But mother's clean their children's rooms don't they? If they don't it is neglect. I even got paid for cleaning my friends childrens' rooms at one point. I think respecting his space is cleaning the windows and keeping it nice, isn't it? The girls never had such a problem with my occasional cleaning and tidying.
BTW, he has not done drugs, he doesn't drink either. I do think he is depressed.

scallopsrgreat Sun 13-Oct-13 17:45:33

I think he is a lazy arse and you and your DH are enabling it. Why was he starving himself? Was it money or he couldn't/wouldn't cook?

I think most parents make their children's tidy their rooms. Mine certainly did.

The problem is that you and especially your dh are teaching your son to have a sense of entitlement. Can you see how this might translate if he starts having a girlfriend or living with someone? He will expect them to be tidying up for them, support them etc. Do you really want him to treat women like that?

Life is too cozy for him at home. Stop cooking washing and tidying for the both of them. Hoover the places you want to live in. Start charging him for staying with you as well. If he doesn't pay stop buying food for him.

If you can't do that or it doesn't work, leave them to it as someone else suggested. Tbh all I am hearing from you are reasons why your son is able to continue to take the piss.

Rosencrantz Sun 13-Oct-13 18:17:23

I don't know how to physically make him sign on.

You tell him he has to, and that he has to move out if he doesn't. He's an adult ffs.

The above poster is right. He is acting this way because you are enabling him to. Step up and parent your child. Get him seen by a doctor and to a job centre.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 18:17:44

That's really constructive advice scallops hmm

I can't leave ds to it as you suggest, if he was living on his own I would get social services on to him as they could get a warrant to assess his mental health. I am very worried about him, but dh won't take him to the doctor.
Besides which I do not do the cooking, washing and tidying. We have a rota for cooking, which ds takes part in, dh does the washing and tries to tidy.
It is just the cleaning that is bugging me, and ds's room. I end up cleaning the common areas but resent the fact that I don't have time to do stuff that I need to do.

Rosencrantz Sun 13-Oct-13 18:18:33

Never respected his space.

It's not his space. It is yours. He is contributing nothing to your home - so the room is yours, not his.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 18:19:00

You are missing the point, rosen

Rosencrantz Sun 13-Oct-13 18:20:25

I'm not. I'm just a firm believer in tough love. It worked wonders for me at 19 when I was in a similar position. Don't think I've ever respected my parents more, than when they forced me to get my life together, get seen by a doctor and move towards getting over my mental illness.

I would have to place a proportion on the blame for this sorry situation on both you and your husband. Your H has particularly enabled his son and not wanting to get help for his son (due to perceived and misplaced shame and embarrassment from the curtain twiching neighbours?. That is why my relatives refused mental health services for their son) will not help him or his son. Your son too seems to have been allowed back home with no conditions whatsoever on doing any chores let alone earn his keep. You are trying to keep a sinking ship afloat at great personal cost to your own emotional health and wellbeing.

Is he the eldest of your children?.

Another problem here is that you as parents cannot work together let alone present a united front to this man. He as a result can and does do as he pleases.

Where did the rot really start here with regards to your son, when did it all start to go wrong?. Be honest; have you as a couple excused him and enabled him to the hilt?. Have you excused and enabled your lazy H to the hilt as well, your go getting nature let him off the hook of actually doing anything because he knew that you would do it all anyway.

These sorts of situations as well do not happen overnight, they build up over a period of some years. My ILs are living the life that you are now living 30 years on with their son. He also had a myriad of issues which really started in his teens.

Your son will likely never leave home if you allow this situation to continue as it is. Why should he when bed and board is provided for?.

What do you get out of the relationship with your H now, why are you actually together?.

And he certainly does not respect you or your H; he likely despises your very beings. How can he respect anyone else when this person can barely disguise his own contempt for himself.

A GP could assess his mental health but they need to be aware of your son. Social services won't want to know because he is an adult. Also they are overstretched.

Kundry Sun 13-Oct-13 18:25:03

Don't want to scare you but going to college, not fitting in, withdrawing to a room to the extent of not eating, not cleaning to the point of infestation, a previously bright child not having the skills to sign on all indicate a very serious mental health problem.

Yes, they could just be laziness, failing to grow up or a newly acquired dope habit - but to a doctor this would be screaming possible onset of schizophrenia.

You urgently need to get him to a doctor - and if he won't go, this is something they would take seriously enough to see him at home.

Matildathecat Sun 13-Oct-13 18:40:12

Agree with Kundry. The cleaning is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

There's no reason at all why you can't speak to the GP and explain what's happening. kundrys first sentence is what you need to concentrate on.

The issues with your DH are different and frankly odd. If he really won't support you with helping your son then you have to go it alone. The cleaning stuff I would just ditto what's been said.

Best wishes to you, you really have a lot on your plate.

tingle1 Sun 13-Oct-13 18:44:47

Op, why do you insist on cleaning your grown sons room? and, why in your first post did you think of calling the police?

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 18:50:27

I don't insist on cleaning his room. If I'd been cleaning it, it wouldn't have been infested, would it? I only removed clothing for washing and vacuumed the worst of the infestation and left the vacuum for him to finish the job.
I thought of calling the police because there is a river nearby and that was where he said he was going. I was terrified that he was going to jump in.

summertimeandthelivingiseasy Sun 13-Oct-13 18:58:18

Local MIND groups run courses such as Self Esteem, and Getting back into work. Ours cost about £99, or free if signed on. If he has inheritance money, he could use this?

MrsMinkBernardLundy Sun 13-Oct-13 19:02:28

Op i think he needs help. he also needs to help himself.
was there ever any sport he was interested in or cycling/bikes or cars?

I am a big believer in exercise being a great healer when it comes to MH and also productivity. if he were interested in bikes then there may be a bike repair/recycle scheme nearby. lots of people i know who have had work issues have done this or wildlife trust volunteering to get them out. they meet people of similar interests so it is less stressful than work/interviews.

Signing on- he can take an advocate with him. or see gp and get assessed for incapacity.

Kundry Sun 13-Oct-13 19:04:16

I think this is nothing to do with cleaning or OP's son being told to buck his ideas up. Suggesting she just stops cleaning his room isn't really helpful.

Lots of people hate college, very very few hate it so much they starve themselves rather than go into a shared college. Most of these will have serious problems that require medical help not just some support and a boot up the arse - this could be any of severe depression, severe anxiety, OCD, eating disorders or psychosis.

I also wonder if the OP's username is significant - if her DH really is a conspiracy theorist, he may well want to be softly softly and not seek medical advice for his son. Or for example call the police when his seriously ill son is missing.

If your DH won't take action, calling your GP to discuss may help you.

MrsMinkBernardLundy Sun 13-Oct-13 19:04:23

Or dog walking if he likes animals?

It is not somethibg that will get better by itself if left to fester. he needs to get up and out.

mercibucket Sun 13-Oct-13 19:06:28

dont listen to posters saying lazy etc

this sounds like a mental health problem. encouraging travel is a bad idea right now. focus on getting him to go and see the gp, or pay for private consultation with a psychologist, and from there, try getting him to claim benefits

the mind website has some useful advice about what to say and not to say
the pull yourself together school of thought is not recommended!

tingle1 Sun 13-Oct-13 19:12:16

It just sounds to me that op has no connection to her child at all. the police is one example.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 19:18:41

tingle1 Do you have children? If your pfb ran off late one night saying he was going to the river, would you let them go and jump or would you call the police?

Kundry Sun 13-Oct-13 19:22:17

Really tingle1, that is one of the most offensive things I've read on here.

If your potentially seriously ill child went missing, suggesting he might jump in the river, what would you suggest doing? Waiting at home and offering him some tea and biscuits?

OP has come here for support, each time she posts it is clearer how bad the problem is, how worried she is and HOW MUCH SHE CARES ABOUT HER SON.

Dirtymistress Sun 13-Oct-13 19:32:17

I think he sounds quite seriously depressed. I think you know that but are being derailed by your dh. You are his mum, you know your child so trust your instincts and get him some help.
I think you might have to take a bit of time off work and really start to address this.
Also agree that lots if fresh air and exercise would be hugely beneficial. A dog would give him something else to care about.

Kundry Sun 13-Oct-13 19:43:56

Honestly, why the focus on dogs??? It's not really fair on the dog to bring it in to a home, that previously hasn't had any wish for a dog, and is in crisis due to the son having a serious untreated mental illness.

Anyone got any suggestions on how the OP can persuade her DH that this is serious, which is what she is asking for?

Katekate77 Sun 13-Oct-13 19:44:38

Was going to post but I agree with all of KUNDRY's posts. You have nothing to lose by seeking help from the GP.

It doesn't really sound like DH is much help in this situation and should be supporting you a lot more in my opinion.

This must be really hard for you, I hope you can get him some help smile

tingle1 Sun 13-Oct-13 19:47:37

Why didnt you run after your son? why didnt you grab him, shake him and shout stop? you just thought about calling 999, then sent dh down to find him. you seem so distant from each other, and it doesnt seem new.

stowsettler Sun 13-Oct-13 19:50:53

kundry got there before me. Getting a dog could be a disaster, it would most likely be just one other thing for you to take care of, OP.

I agree that your DS sounds very ill. So ill that you have to realise that putting him first means, in this case, disregarding the completely misguided opinion of your DH. DS needs help, you're his mother - ergo you must get him help, whether he wants it or not.

As to your DH himself - well that's a whole other problem IMO and not something I'd be putting up with. But it's hardly the biggest problem in your life right now.

elastamum Sun 13-Oct-13 19:57:03

It does sound like e is suffering from depression. Often parents, particulalty fathers find it hard to admit that their child might be ill. You need to get him help - talk to your GP. Also look at the Young minds website - they run a support service for parents of young people with MH problems.

Owning a dog means that you will just end up with something else to care for. Its not fair on the animal either.

Why does your DH not want to seek help for his son?. Is it for the reason I cited i.e totally misplaced shame and embarrassment that his son needs such mental help?. That is why my ILs refused help btw.

DH is also part of the overall problem as well as yourself; this has dragged on for a long time now and things have or will soon come to a head. You are both well outside your comfort zone here and it shows. Time to act decisively and not bury your head in the sand in the hope it will go away because it does not.

MrsMinkBernardLundy Sun 13-Oct-13 19:59:17

I wasn't suggesting getting a dog but dog walking either as a voluntary thing or very p/t work. i found it helped me a lot when i was not well but i could not have cope with a dog ft. I find structure and routine really beneficial. Even if that routine is just on one day a week walking a dog/going to a class/volunteering/playing football ire anything else he might enjoy.

stowsettler Sun 13-Oct-13 19:59:26

DH is also part of the overall problem as well as yourself

This. Very much this.

Hi there OP, sorry to hear things are bad for you. Although I do feel sorry for you, I do also feel sad for your son. I was a gloomy teen and was pretty crippled with insecurity and shyness, and it sounds to me like he is ashamed of himself for living in squalor, feeling worthless because he dropped out of college and trying to disappear. The world is a frightening place for a teen who doesn't fit in. Sometimes getting dressed is a struggle. It sounds to me that you are more of a go-getter like your daughters and maybe your son is more like your DH, if that is the case what does your DH think would work. Maybe the softly softly approach would help. Take him somewhere where he feels happy, reassure him that you are proud of him and love him and ask him what he wants to do with his life. Maybe his lecturer would have a word with him, and he could go back next year? Good luck.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 20:34:52

tingle1 I don't know why I am trying to engage with you. Grabbing and shaking would not end well, ds is well over 6ft tall and well built. dh still had his shoes on as they had been out. I do care about him and I need to get him professional help. Nothing justifies violence. End of.

Thanks thanks for all the helpful suggestions folks, especially Kundry. I appreciate the dog walking suggestions as kindly meant, although realistically it is past that at the moment though could be useful along with all the other volunteering suggestions after he gets treatment. I found a once a week "free" paper round got me out of the house after I was ill many years ago. Getting paid for carrying weights and going for a nice walk.

The "They fuck you up your Mum and Dad" type posts were not really helpful (yes I know it is all our fault, thanks) and I could have done without the LTB's. grin

Let's all have cake and brew and a good nights sleep and I will contact our gps and ask for their help tomorrow.

humphryscorner Sun 13-Oct-13 20:57:35

OP when my dd hit 17, she dropped out of college because she didnt like the girls there and I was heart broke. Her bed room was awful, mouldy food, make up smeared all over carpet, piled up plates, dirty clothes,old sanitary towels .She refused to do her chores and was disrespectful to me and my DH. I asked her to leave as Id just had a DD2 and wouldn't allow some one to treat me and my home like that. It was my house.

She went to live with her dad for a year, well his mother really as he was with his gf. Our relationship improved massively as we wasn't in each others 'face'. She allowed me to help find her an apprenticeship and I watched her find her own feet and blossom in to a wonderful young lady. I had to let the reins go. She text me earlier tonight for the first time ever telling me she loved me. I nearly fell of my chair and suspected she was pissed! she moved back in just before her 18. She is a different girl.

I think you should call GP out like an above poster said and if he is not depressed, then he has to find his own feet. He isn't a child any more, he is a grown man.

My 26 yr old db lives with my DGM still, lives his life through the computer, online wizards ect...hmm he is a recluse and a bit weird. He also has never signed on but gets himself a job for 6 months saves the money then has six months off shock My DGM totally enables him and this behaviour and its segregated him from the rest of the family but she cant see it.

regarding the cleaning - time to grow a back bone! good luck!

CharityFunDay Sun 13-Oct-13 22:17:51

DH was right not to call the police. They wouldn't do anything WRT to a missing person report unless it had been 48 hours.

Agree that this sounds like a very troubled young man, who needs to be handled carefully. First priority should be a GP visit (accompanied by a parent who can fill in some of the gaps).

See where you go from there. If he is ill, file a claim for ESA immediately.

The business about living in squalor is classic 'red flag' for deteriorating MH. How did it ever get so bad in the first place? This should have been nipped in the bud long ago.

Your relationship with DH sounds problematic in itself, but that's a separate issue.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Sun 13-Oct-13 23:21:08

He wasn't missing as such, he was threatening to jump.

mercibucket Sun 13-Oct-13 23:45:41

you can also speak to his gp separately
afaik this goes on his notes so if he asked to see them he would know you had spoken to them, but invaluable for letting the gp know what is happening

joanofarchitrave Sun 13-Oct-13 23:51:51

'I firmly believe that someone's self-worth is dependent on them feeling like they're making a useful contribution, even if it is just ticking off a load of housework tasks that someone else has asked them to do.'


Does your dh like having company around? Does he even maybe quite like having someone around who isn't a go-getter? This is OK in itself but not at the expense of your ds's future.

I very much get the dynamic that you are the breadwinner and therefore feel you have to tread carefully in putting your foot down due to fear of fragile egos; tough; where your ds is concerned he is at risk of sticking at this stage for years, now is the time for action.

CharityFunDay Mon 14-Oct-13 05:56:48

He wasn't missing as such, he was threatening to jump.

Oh I beg your pardon, I missed that bit on first reading. Sorry. Stand by the rest of my post though.

humphryscorner Mon 14-Oct-13 06:28:23

Yes op that puts a different spin on things.... To hell with what your dh wants. Call a GP out this morning .

dhisaconspiracytheorist Mon 14-Oct-13 07:23:09

The reason I posted in relationships originally is because I wanted help in persuading dh to see how serious this is. Its not about laziness, fragile egos is more like it. To hell with what dh wants is pretty much on a par with ltb. In marriage you do have to consider your partners feelings. We have been together 28 years, things are generally good. I said upthread that I am going to contact gp for advice this morning, but really I would like to persuade dh to take ds to gp. I have to go to work. I can't just take time off as and when, it needs to be booked.

MinesAPintOfTea Mon 14-Oct-13 07:55:13

Is your DH trying to avoid seeing how bad things have got? I don't know how you can make him see without things changing for the worse, which is exactly what you don't want. Would he support you if you booked a day off work to take DS to the GP? Or could you do it on a day he works?

As for the "make him" comments about the DS: my DB went through similar (pretty much recovered now, but still living with my DP), you can't make a young adult man do anything, including walking out of the door. The OP could stop providing healthy meals or doing washing, but he needs healthy meals to recover and is unlikely to clean for himself. I know its not just a matter of a balanced diet, but I suspect the DS would live off junk if meals weren't provided. Aside from that she has no sanctions if he doesn't want to do anything and has a pot of money when he does want to buy something.

You have my sympathy OP. Mental illness in a family member is hard to deal with partly because its so hard to get them to seek treatment once an adult.

LIZS Mon 14-Oct-13 08:22:04

Going back to the original problem I'd get a cleaner in for a one off , or maybe several short, visits perhaps when ds isn't there if possible to Spring clean. Then you can start a better regime to keep on top of it , even if once fortnight or once a month you all hoover particular parts on the same morning, keep a spray cleaner in bathroom to use after you have a bath/shower or brush teeth, wipe kitchen surfaces while the kettle is boiling etc. Each would only take a minute or two and might reduce the stress of that aspect of things . However I suspect it is really a displacement of your concerns over ds and frustration at dh and agree gp should be first port of call. I doubt he could get ESA without diagnosis and even then it is not a given. Good luck

scallopsrgreat Mon 14-Oct-13 08:24:30

So he was actually threatening to jump? Jeepers, that puts a whole different light on the issue.

I know what you are saying with regards not overriding your DH's feelings but it seems to be OK for him to do the same to you? I am not seeing any compromising or help from him in this matter at all. Why do his feelings count more than yours (and your DS's)?

He doesn't do any cleaning even though he works less than you. This is what I picked up on originally. That sense of entitlement and I thought your son might be following down the same path. That may still be part of the problem but evidently there are more pressing issues. So apologies for the last post. I can totally see why you found it unhelpful.

What did your DH say when your son said he was going to jump? In fact what has he had to say about any of this?

Have you thought about what you are going to do if you can't convince your DH that something needs to be done? Because there is no guarantee you will be able to persuade him. I think most people on here are with you in that something needs to be done (just disagreeing about the best course of action smile). Doing nothing isn't really an option and would be letting your son down and sending him the message that his father's opinions and feelings matter more than his.

Also other than the shouting match you haven't said what your sons feelings are (as far as you know). I am presuming you have tried to speak to him? Has he said anything about what he wants to do or what happened at uni, for example?

Dear goodness, I could have written this! I can only really tell you our story and what we did and how there IS (touch everything wooden in sight) a potential happy ending.

DS is ASD, but very high functioning. However I think we had all persuaded ourselves he was higher functioning than he was. He started Uni last year, all seemed fine, was back for Xmas, all happy. Come end Feb, I had a funny feeling something was awry, went to visit him, after 24 hours it emerged he'd dropped out academically in the October after getting behind with an essay and just hid, ostrich-like (YTAF did the Uni not contact me/him??) and then socially too, as was embarrassed in front of his friends, so just sat in his room, went nocturnal, survived on Nutella (found 24 jars in his room)...I whisked him home.

He saw the GP, was put on ADs (even if he hadn't been before, 4 months of isolation would send anyone potty) and referred to the mental health services. I had to fight for all this to happen ASAP. Screaming matches with receptionists etc. They put him on a course of CBT and he also saw a private counsellor about mindfulness (he genuinely enjoyed this).

We had 4 pretty shitty months, when he just sat on his PC, that's if he was up at all. DP went into work mode ie problem/solution and kept coming up with various star charts eg if you go swimming every day/get a job we'll go to Nandos/sushi...Didn't work.

All that did was time, understanding, lots of heart to hearts with me, the ADs kicking in, and then some gentle planning for the future.

We visited another university and had meetings with their MH people and got DS registered disabled so he now has weekly meetings with a mentor to keep him on track (he started there last month). He also used some of an inheritance to go travelling, and I disagree with some of the posters above - it gave him something to focus on, plan for and get excited about. He managed really well - re-learning independence, responsibility etc. He checked in with a relative of mine who lives there halfway through so that gave me some peace of mind, and I insisted on daily texts.

The single best thing though was, like you, I got him on a short course with one of the tutors at our local uni on a vaguely connected subject that he's always been interested in. It got him out of bed twice a week, and started to rebuild his self esteem and worth (and got DP off his back).

With your DH...I dunno. Maybe you two could go out for dinner and in a non confrontational, neutral setting, rather than having harsh words about it all when you're freshly exasperated at everyone's laziness, talk instead about how it makes you feel, value, respect, lack of etc...and then also agree a joint plan for DS. But crucially, DS himself then needs to be part of and sign up to that plan.

Hope this all makes sense - do PM me if you want to talk more as it's eerily similar and I suspect you might be feeling like I did - heartbroken, failure as a Mum etc. It DID get better x

stowsettler Mon 14-Oct-13 09:27:09

OP I think we all get that you don't want to do anything your DH doesn't want to do, and I'm sure we all realise that there has to be a bit of give and take within a marriage.

The trouble is, it sounds like you're doing the giving and he's doing the taking. Even if that is not true, we're not talking about who puts the bins out here, or whose turn it is to do the shopping. We're talking about your DS's mental health and, quite possibly, the rest of his life.

IMO that adds a whole level of urgency to the situation, and if your DH can't see that (or won't see that) then you simply have to go it alone. You owe it to your DS.

HoopHopes Mon 14-Oct-13 22:12:40

Re: your ds, being at home for a year with no reason to get out of bed could cause the apathy and low mood or he may be like that because of low mood. Regardless he either needs to: see a gp for assessment, treatment options or needs to find a structure to his day and activities ( ideally out of the house) to motivate him.

You say you are funding him. Could you sit down with him and lay down basic ground rules and tell him you will not fund him any more so he needs to find a job etc! If he had a small job, a routine, it could help him find friends and give him some self esteem etc. and if he cannot manage that then he needs medical help.

Sounds tough.

Shame your dh will not allow a cleaner into the home. Could you book one to come on a day he is out at work and give her a key so it is not an issue?

MrsMinkBernardLundy Mon 14-Oct-13 22:37:29

Would showing dh this thread help convince him perhaps?
Also knowing that a diagnosis of a MH issue is by no means a life sentence nor is it something that need adversely affect job prospects.

dhisaconspiracytheorist Mon 14-Oct-13 23:17:05

That's really helpful stinkingbishop ASD was the first reaction of one of the sws I work with a few weeks ago. 24 jars of nutella also rings parallels, he went through a phase of energy drinks when he dropped out and nocturnal too, although now he does not have internet in his bedroom, he seems to have a better sleep pattern. Glad to see things are working out for your son.

Hoophopes I would book the cleaner but unfortunately dh has zero hours contract so he doesn't work regular hours.

MrsMinkBernardLundy I agree that DX of MH is not a life sentence - I have been through it myself with post baby hypermanic episodes/psychosis and also spent a time as an inpatient 10 years ago. I now manage to function pretty well and know how to manage my own mh.

So I phoned the gp from work and unfortunately they could not phone me back until I was home. Had a good chat with gp and explained how worried I am and why dh does not want ds to get a mental health dx. GP was very good and did say that they are loath to label people, which I know from my own experience of psychs is true. Dh's reaction to me making the call was however very worrying, I now think his own mh is worse than I thought. Anyway we had had a chat on the way into work this morning and I had told him that I was going to call gp about my worries. And after dh had come back from the shops after the call, we discussed it and he did seem to be less stressed about it, and I am hopeful that he will come round to taking ds to gp. GP said that I could ask him to phone me again when we have persuaded ds to go and see him and he will fit him in despite no available appointments. Ds vacuumed his room today, dh has finished washing all of his clothes (!) and they are going out to get ds a new winter coat tomorrow so progress of sorts.

LIZS Tue 15-Oct-13 07:22:58

Sounds as if you have made some progress. Has your dh had any MH issues in the past , could he be afraid that ds is going through similar and may not receive support therefore it is easy to avoid the issue?

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