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Doctor has taken away my sleeping tablets

(120 Posts)
filee777 Wed 02-Oct-13 23:40:43

When I went on sertraline, I was given sleeping tablets because I just wasn't able to fall asleep. For a month now I have taken them and it's been a massive part of my recovery to know that at night I will sleep

The doctor refused to renew my prescription today and said I had to make the 14 that I have last.

I've just started a degree and my head is swimming. I am thinking I will have to stop taking the sertraline despite them really really helping me. I just can't sleep. It's 11.30 now and I've been lying here for near on 2 hours unable to sleep, getting more and more anxious about the day ahead.

I've taken a tablet now because I NEED sleep. What can I do? Can I buy decent sleeping tablets? Should I just start dosing myself up with over the counter codeine every night?

I need sleep sad

Are you taking the Sertraline in the morning?

I find that I can't slee if i take mine at night.

filee777 Wed 02-Oct-13 23:44:21

Yes first thing.

Elderflowergranita Wed 02-Oct-13 23:53:30

Have you tried valerian tablets?

A real knocker-outer for me. You should get them over the counter most places, or on line.

timidviper Thu 03-Oct-13 00:00:40

The doctor is right that sleeping tablets should not be used long term, they are only recommended for short courses as they are habit forming and not particularly effective. That goes for over the counter medication too. You may not be happy about this now but you'd be even less happy in the future if you found yourself addicted to these tablets

I know it is hard as I don't sleep well myself and would love something that could just knock me out but the best solution is sleep hygiene (routines, etc)

silvermirror Thu 03-Oct-13 01:57:19

What is yr sleeping tablet called and what dose r u on.
How Long will 14 tablets last u.?

Depending on what Type nd dose yr on after around 4 weeks yr body grows tollerant to it and it stops working even though yr taking the regular dose, if u continue to take them after6/8 weeks yr body becomes addicted so when u do stop taking it u can suffer with drawal symptoms and increase insomnia.

I would start to ween yrself of them now.

I Wouldnt recommend codine either as its a painkiller and no use for sleeping issues, if u consume codine over time when u stop the withdrawal can be horrific.

Look at exercise, diet, rest.

Look at theraputic treatments for sleeping disorders.

I use to worry about not been able to sleep when I went to bed, now I tell myself im not forcing myself to sleep, I read, chill to music and as Long as im resting I am at least giving my body a break, there is no preasure on myself to sleep.

Yr doctor is showing you he actually cares about u as hes not willy nilly giving u repeated prescriptions for sleeping tablets, so he Does have yr best interests at heart, to me that makes a very good doctor.

whatnameshallibetoday Thu 03-Oct-13 02:12:32

I found these better than any sleeping tablet [,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.53537100,bs.1,d.d2k,pv.xjs.s.en_US.oowl8Mc_jj4.O&biw=1454&bih=687&dpr=1&tch=1&ech=1&psi=QMRMUseAHYOc0QXHzoGICg.1380762681988.5&sa=X&ei=YMRMUpfxBcqU0AW8mYGQBQ&ved=0CFgQ8wIwAA here]]

whatnameshallibetoday Thu 03-Oct-13 02:12:42
filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 07:12:30

I'm on zopiclone, I can't remember the mg, usual I think.

I can't really see how giving me less is doing anything to aid my sleep pattern or my anxiety to be honest. I'll keep trying to get to bed earlier but I need to get up at 6am for college, I can't be lying awake until after 12!

I'll try those natural ones but I don't do well with valerian, makes me have awful, awful dreams.

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 07:12:46

By the way, my doctor is a woman.

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 10:29:57

I've decided I am going to stop taking my anti-depressants starting from today.

silvermirror Thu 03-Oct-13 14:09:36

Zopiclone stops working after 4/6 weeks so it will not be an aid to sleep.

What about an Antidepression that has a seditive effect,such as mirtazapine or similair, u take these before bedtime instead of the morning.

Has yr college or univercity got a councilling service that u could Access to recieve support for yr Anxiety and insomnia.

DameFellatioNelson Thu 03-Oct-13 14:12:50

I hope this isn't going to sound too patronising and obvious, but are you doing all the sensible things like avoiding coffee, tea, caffeine in fizzy drinks, MSG and other additives in food, excessive alcohol etc? All those things will make it hard to fall asleep and stay asleep. I can't drink coffee at all after midday if I want a decent night's sleep.

I think you should speak to your doctor before you stop taking your ADs.
That way you can talk through all the options.

susanalbumparty Thu 03-Oct-13 14:51:28

Please don't stop taking the ADs without telling you GP. There are alternative meds you can take. Ask your GP about mirtazapine, it's another AD which is good for sleep. A psychiatrist offered it to me yesterday for that reason. I have also had promethazine (sp?) to help sleep which is an antihistamine.

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 14:51:38

Spoke to the duty doctor, he said fine, my decision but to take one every other day for a week. So that's what I will do.

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 15:16:24

The worst bit about it is that I have never felt so clear and happy and settled within myself. I've never been able to get up without a knawing feeling of doubt and pain.

It's been an amazing month.

HoopHopes Thu 03-Oct-13 16:17:41

Why not stay on sertraline and take sleeping tablets three times a week to help you get enough sleep. Sertraline should not make you wide awake so what will you do if still not sleeping and not on sertraline?

I struggled with sleep for years and had to learn bed at same time, no lie ins, no screen time at night and good habits at night. So if I cannot sleep I do not get stressed, do sudoku, read a magazine etc and know I will cope off less sleep and will sleep more next night which usually I do.

LEMisdisappointed Thu 03-Oct-13 16:24:08

Filee - zopiclone is addictive, which is why your doctor wouldnt renew the prescription. I have just been given a week supply as i was having a bad time sleeping again and wanted to break the pattern before it became a habit. Dr was really reluctant to let me have them, but I haven't taken them, it was enough to know they were there. I didn't find the sleep on them especially refreshing.

Do think very carefully about stopping the ADs, you haven't been on them for that long - why not pop over to the "village" and talk it over there?

You have done amazingly this month, you should be really proud of yourself, but the begining of a degree course is hard until you find your feet, coming off ADs on top of that would fry my head. Maybe wait until you are settled?

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 16:30:26

I've had to take a tablet now because I got really anxious and upset. I'm going to speak to the doctors tomorrow about maybe switching to something that will help me sleep rather than prevent it.

LEMisdisappointed Thu 03-Oct-13 16:34:59

If you are taking sleeping tablets at 4.30 in the afternoon due to anxiety, there is a problem honey. mirtazipine is supposed to help you sleep, maybe talk about that, but i really don't think that now is a good time for you to be stopping the ADs.

Orangeanddemons Thu 03-Oct-13 16:37:50

All the Ssri's gave me insomnia, but they did the trick with depression. I'm now on Paroxetine, but take 15mg of mirtazapine for sleep with it.

Try asking for that, or to switch to mirtazapine, although I felt it wasn't a particularly good Ad.

Branleuse Thu 03-Oct-13 16:41:28

doctors are shit with insomnia. They cant keep giving you sleeping tablets indefinitely, but there isnt really anything else available either.
Its not like theyd say "right well you cant keep on antidepressants forever, so youre going to have to make these ones last and try and get happy on your own"
I have been down this road so much, and its basically got to the stage now where I have to drink red wine or smoke weed to get to sleep, which is a problem in itself, but not sleeping is my major trigger more than anything

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 16:45:26

I took my sertraline tablet about 2 hours ago NOT a sleeping tablet!

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 16:46:42

Not being able to sleep makes me anxious, upset and I can be perceived as agressive, that then makes me guilty which makes me anxious and hurt and feel like absolute shit.

I can't not sleep. It's been the best thing about this month

Branleuse Thu 03-Oct-13 16:47:09

btw, i find sominex in the blue packet pretty good - the antihistamine based one. I dont like any of the herbal ones, as even though they work, they give me a terrible hangover the next day. Everyone is different though.

i also sometimes listen to sleep hypnosis videos on youtube on my phone by my bed, which can sometimes relax me enough to drift off

HoopHopes Thu 03-Oct-13 17:15:57

But if you could change your attitude to not sleeping that could help you sleep. That is what I was trying to say. It was only when O had a positive attitude to nights of poor sleep that I could cope and then actually get to sleep.

No dr will give you sleeping tablets long term, most will not give more than two weeks due to addictive nature and people not learning how to sleep without them.

Are you saying the sertraline has caused the insomnia? If so changing ad may help. Mirtazapine is sedating but can increase appetite and thus weight gain.

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 18:06:41

I've never had this trouble sleeping before sad I'll speak to the doctor tomorrow but I don't know what else I can do!

I study 3 days a week in a city a 1.5 hour drive from where I live, I then when I get home at about 10 to seven I put the children to bed and I am literally exhausted.

The other two weeks days I work 6-8 hours into the evening and I also work alternate weekends. Up to 10 hours a day.

If I don't sleep I am even more exhausted than I already am.

LEMisdisappointed Thu 03-Oct-13 18:41:43

Could you try a bedtime routine? for the nights that you aren't working in the evenings. So, no study/work on computor after 10, or whatever time you stop. No mnet - nightmare for keeping my brain on overdrive. Bath, trashy book - nothing like a bit of brain dead reading, nothing too highbrow or suspense novels where you want to find out who did it! Classics tend to put me to sleep too as they are hard going so i am usually snoring before two pages. No caffiene after 6pm, or cut it out completely as its a bastard for anxiety.

I sypmathise, there is nothing like having to be up early to make me not able to sleep, fretting about getting up. I went three days with no sleep once - I was hallucinating at the end of it.

It might not be an instant cure but a change of attitude/routine may help long term. I find actually having the zopiclone in the cupboard enough to take the pressure off - so i know if im tossing and turning, i can take a pill and be zonked within half an hour. So i KNOW i'll sleep, if you see what i mean - I haven't had to actually take any.

Do take care with any herbal remedies as things like nytol and kalms shouldnt be taken with SSRIs and need to be taken for two weeks before they work.

If i were in your position i think i would be wanting sleeping tablets for the days your on shift.

Once uni kicks in properly and you find your routine, you'll find yourself feeling much better.

Keep it up - you're doing well x

Branleuse Thu 03-Oct-13 18:47:53

sometimes, nothing works. You can have all the fantastic sleep hygeine in the world. All the warm baths and ovaltine, and lavender.

Ive been recommended a thousand times that maybe I should just try not to actually WORRY about my insomnia and then i would fall asleep, but tbh, although the advice is well meaning, its about as helpful as telling someone with severe depression that they just need to change their attitude.

Branleuse Thu 03-Oct-13 18:48:32

nytol and kalms do not need to be taken for 2 weeks before they work??

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 18:49:49

Thanks for understanding me Bran x

I am going to get really drunk tonight so I don't have to take a tablet.

I suppose I will just have to learn to consume lots of alcohol very quickly for the nights when I have a late finish and an early start.

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 18:50:26

I cannot have valerian root

Methe Thu 03-Oct-13 18:54:24

Sertraline can take a while to get used to. When I started taking it I did have a few weeks of restless nights but then it improved. I think it's one of those things where you just have to weather the storm for a while.

You would be silly to stop taking them in they have improved your mental well being.

LEMisdisappointed Thu 03-Oct-13 18:54:36

Bran - i am not 100% on that, but i am sure that is the reason why i discounted those when i was struggling to sleep once.

I have to admit filee that alcohol is definately my friend in terms of sleeping - just don't tell my doctor! blush Instead of copious amounts of wine though, what about a brandy? One glass of brandy for me works as well as a bottle of wine.

Sympathies filee. I'm on Fluoxetine (Prozac) for depression, and cos it wasn't hitting the anxiety v much - started waking in the night with anxiety - my GP added Trazodone which is an old fashioned AD and has a sedative effect - and I have great quality sleep on it - even on the lowest dose (50mg) - maybe something to speak to your GP about if you need to.

But I would echo Lem's advice too. This is what I do that helps
- no caffeine after 4pm
- no phone/laptop screen after 9, warm drink
- turn tv off 10.30
- to bed and read 1-2 chapters of something lightweight but just good enough to keep me interested.
- Then lights off and if my head gets busy again I keep taking my mind back to what happened in the chapter I read, and some slow breathing.

And that all usually does the trick.

Hang in the there tho - one month on Sertraline is early days and like Lem says, starting Uni is a stressful time at the best of times, so try and be gentle with yourself. All the best.

filee777 Thu 03-Oct-13 19:29:03

It's been 1 month since the sertraline started working. It's been another six weeks on top since I started.

silvermirror Thu 03-Oct-13 21:07:25

Even if the doctor was to give u another prescription of zopiclone and u took it regular it Would be purely placebo effect.

Overtime u would need to increase the dose as yr body would becone tollrant and addicted.

U will have even more anxiety symptoms over a longer period of time.

I know yr getting anxious about not sleeping but that in itself will cause difficulties with sleeping so its a rebound.

But sleeping tablets Long term is not the answer. Doctors consider Long term use after 6 weeks.

I would Definately get an appointment with yr GP to discuss another Type of AD, and other anti anxiety and insomnia medications.

In the meantime continue with yr presant AD.

maniclady Thu 03-Oct-13 21:50:45

Just thought I'd mention I'm in the same boat so lots of hand holding here. Hope the doctor listens.

PaulSmenis Thu 03-Oct-13 22:14:51

My GP won't perscribe zopiclone now. He said that you get nearly as much rest if you lie still in a darkened room and try to relax. I'm not happy at all and even though he's the expert I think he's chatting it.

I know they are addictive and have side effects, but ffs, I just generally feel much better after taking them even when I wake up. I get an awesome sleep.

I now drink more frequently to help me get off to sleep. I have bipolar, so a lack of sleep can really mess me up and send me into a manic episode. I'm pissed about having to self medicate with alcohol and night nurse.

Seriously, I know Z class drugs aren't ideal, but they really improve my quality of life and I'm more than happy to pay the prescription fee. I'd be sorely tempted to order them from abroad if I didn't know they can be dodgy as hell. Sorry, a bit ranty and here.

silvermirror Thu 03-Oct-13 23:01:17

Resorting to alchol for sleep wont that in itself cause additional short and Long term problems, yr just transfering the problem from sleeping tablets to alcohol.

Alcohol issues is not a joke but an illness itself.

Please dont substitute non availability of sleeping tablets for alcohol.

I think alchol is actually more damaging than anything else sadly its cheep and easily available.

Preciousbane Thu 03-Oct-13 23:07:27

Alcohol is a depressant and not good to mix with meds. Would you consider not drinking at all?

HoopHopes Fri 04-Oct-13 00:05:07

I struggled with awful insomnia for years and worked full time. The only thing that worked for me as I said was to accept sleeps was not always easy and worked on my sleep routine and my attitude to sleep. So nights when I cannot sleep I use that time to do nice things, read lit books, music etc and know that I will get a few hours ( sometimes only 2-3 before I have to be up) but know other nights I will get more. And by being less stressed about it the easier sleep has come. Now it is only a few times a month and I just say well I have sleep in " the bank" and I will make sure I rest as much as I can.

Sleeping tablets do not work long term, it is placebo. Sadly.

Have you tried breathing exercises, yoga or Pilates. I love my weekly class and can use bits of it to help.

MrsFlorrick Fri 04-Oct-13 00:30:19

You should try these,k:kirkland+sleep+aid&keywords=kirkland+sleep+aid&ie=UTF8&hvnetw=g&tag=hydrukspg-21&hvadid=25387972887&hvptwo=&hvpone=&hvpos=1t1&hvrand=20090052301941760606&hvdev=m&hvexid=&hvqmt=e

Legal non addictive and in the US by the FDA they have been rated (they as is Doxy Lamaine) more effective that all other sedatives and hypnotics inc z type drug. Google it and you'll see studies.

No need for anything else. Kirkland is good made for or by Costco (ie own brand).

Non addictive too.

I had terrible terrible insomnia. GP refused to help and after 8 months of insomnia hell gave me two nights worth of tablets (thanks a lot!) and I was back to not sleeping. Lots of reasons which I won't go into now and GP maintained it was "for my own good" as all z type drugs are addictive. Doesn't matter when you want to sleep does it.

Any way Doxy Lamaine was something I came across on mumsnet by accident. It is a component of Syndol which is an OTC medication for migraine but aids sleep.

I now sleep well and occasionally use my doxy Lamaine. It's essentially an antihistamine but much more effective than sominex.

I have one more suggestion which isn't entirely well ehm let say its legally frowned upon but a joint? Desperate times and all that. Doxy Lamaine is a better better but you need to sleep.

I feel for you. Hardcore insomnia is awful and debilitating in ways only understood if you've suffered.

And avoid alcohol. It may help you fall asleep for a short time but you'll wake earlier and feel hungover to boot. Ugh.

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 04:19:15

A joint would be an option but I've done so so well to give up smoking it and my husband gets drug tested at work and Loves it so it would be a bit mean!

I'll check out this doxi stuff thank you smile

PaulSmenis Fri 04-Oct-13 07:56:30

Does it make you feel groggy the next day? That's why zopiclone is so good, you wake up feeling 100% clear headed.

MrsFlorrick Fri 04-Oct-13 08:29:42

Only makes you groggy if you take it at say 3 am and you need to be up at 7.

If you take it at 9pm and go to bed at 10, you'll feel great next day.

Admittedly this means you have to plan ahead but it's better than no help and no sleep. Besides they seem to help you get into a good pattern of sleep so you don't need them any more after a while.

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 08:38:41

I always plan to go to sleep early anyway. This morning both the kids were up at 4am for an hour. I didn't get to sleep until past 11 having lian pointlessly for 2 hours unable to sleep.

I finally took a zopiclone. One of my last ones.

I have an appointment with the doctor today and a full nights shift tonight. I'm going to tell her how this has all affected me, how worried I have been and how I have gone from being cool, calm and focusing to just lying and crying whenever I've got the chance.

I feel totally unsupported by them.

MrsFlorrick Fri 04-Oct-13 09:46:29

I found GPs totally unsupportive for sleep issues. I virtually didn't sleep for over 18 months. It almost drove me insane. No help from GP other than platitudes about not watching tv in bed, going to bed early enough and having a hot milky drink hmm none of which is any use for hardcore sleep issues.

I wish I had taken matters into my own hands much sooner. The doxy Lamaine has changed things for me completely.

I rarely struggle with sleep now. And feel rested and sane most of the time.

Initially I took them every night for about 10 days. This meant 10 nights of beautiful sleep. It sort if broke the cycle of insomnia. Then I went a few nights without and was fine.

It has also helped me tune into what's going on in my head so I know if things are stressful and I can't calm my mind early evening that I can take one of those tablet and still sleep just fine. And most nights when I feel calm I just don't need anything.

I hope you break your cycle and feel better soon.

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 10:49:14

I'm just in the doctors now, waiting to go in. I'm going to tell her exactly how I feel right now, how unsupported and just left to deal with stuff.

I am going to ask HOW I am expected to 'not sleep' for half of the next two months and explain that I am exhausted now, I have no days off until next weekend and that I have a job caring for people which being tired/anxious and stressed does not help.

They need to change my medication or support the medication I am on.

MrsFlorrick Fri 04-Oct-13 11:21:56

How did it go with the doctors?? Or need I even ask hmm?

Fingers crossed for you.

Feeling exhausted today but not due to insomnia. Well at least not the kind you can help grin. My youngest is cutting his last two molars and decided he needed to sit with me for 3 hours in the middle of the night. Ho hum.

The way I feel today reminds me of how it used to be all the time. Looking forward to sleep tonight. As its Friday DH can do teething duty. I am switching off at 8pm tonight.

Again let us know how you got on.

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 11:26:13

They still haven't seen me, sat me shaking in a public area surrounded by people before 'informing' me that I must sit elsewhere. For the last 15 mins I have been sat on a sofa in an empty room wondering what the fuck is taking so long.

kim147 Fri 04-Oct-13 12:01:09

Just want to add my support. I know what you've been going through - including some of your successes with maths and getting to Uni but it must be so hard if you're exhausted and doing your job as well as studying.

I hope something gets sorted.

Orangeanddemons Fri 04-Oct-13 12:17:07

What complete bollocks about getting enough rest if your lying in bed. Honestly some doctors!

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 13:02:20

Sorry for not updating sooner.

My doctor has signed me off for 2 weeks and made me promise to get an urgent appointment with the psych team and reduce my working hours.

She said I need to have some time to come off the sleeping tablets without worrying about work the next day.

Though she has given me 14 for emergencies.

Orangeanddemons Fri 04-Oct-13 14:12:49 that what you wanted? The psych team will probably give you something to make you sleep tbh. Your doctor sounds, well ..,not brilliant tbh. Mine gave me zopiclone for 3 months, then we started on mirtazapne. Psych didn't seem at all bothered about the zopiclone, she said they use it long term. I don't have any withdrawal from stopping it.

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 14:26:15

The psych team can't see me until the 28th October. I can't seem to get any other support from anywhere so just going to have to deal with it I suppose.

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 14:26:36

I mean medical support, I get support on here and from my husband loads

HoopHopes Fri 04-Oct-13 23:16:43

With14 tablets that will almost get you to the 28th though. Know it feels a long way away though. Having had to wait 16 weeks to see a psychiatrist this year as dr would not change my medication without a psychiatrist I found those 4 months awful. I got mirtazapine and a review with psych in 6 months but gp has permission now to increase etc. if psych says you need meds it always over rules what gp says.

If your gp gives you a fit note for work the gp can insist you have reduced hours due to ill health if that helps. Sme jobs will lay as full time all depends on pay policy.

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 23:18:15

I'm on zero contract hours so can reduce my hours as I see fit (2 way street!) so I think I will just start doing 1 day and 1 evening a week.

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 23:20:00

I am going to try and wean myself off these tablets if I can. I have 14 to get me through and when I see the psyche team I will do my best to get them to see that though the sertraline is really working, it's not helping me with sleep which I need it to do...

HoopHopes Fri 04-Oct-13 23:20:15

Oh that sounds a good idea. Hope it helps

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 23:22:32

Thanks so much for talking to me about it x

HoopHopes Fri 04-Oct-13 23:37:18

Could you try taking one sleeping tablet at the weekend and then a night without knowing you can not at work etc next day.

When I weaned myself off them ( my psych just prescribed them doing me no favours over 2 yrs sigh!!) I used to tell myself I can have one tomorrow so it is just one day without etc. to be honest until I had a baby I do not think I knew what real exhaustion and sleep deprivation was though, oops!!

filee777 Fri 04-Oct-13 23:40:42

I'm going to try and go til Sunday night without one and then go to bed early on Sunday and not have one until I need to sleep (up at 6 on Monday morning) but when I am not up so early I will not take them. Hopefully by the time I am due back at work I will be off them.

TwuntingCrow Sat 05-Oct-13 00:14:14

Hi - I battled to get myself off sleeping pills and was successful - I did the sleep hygiene stuff but would also allow myself half a sleeping pill at a certain time if I had not managed to fall asleep - for me that was 3am
It honestly wasn't that awful once I acknowledged that if I needed to I could take one - but not til 3am
It helped to take doxy or sominex too but the main thing was perseverance and time ...
Best of luck

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 01:48:40

Still awake. Which is probably for the best because the baby has a stinking cold and needed extra bottle/calp

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 01:49:26

- pol.

Husband is in the kids room so he can toss and turn and is not best pleased.

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 01:50:33

Oh also incredible dry mouth and slightly nauseous.

Glad I am not working at 7am tomorrow morning. Good call Mrs doctor

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 15:55:14

I feel terrible today, spent all night in a weird sort of 'half sleep' and when I did slip into deep sleep at around 4am I had weird dreams that jolted me awake.

Still got up at half past eight and am determined not to nap today.

Have nausea and head is spinning, sometimes hallucinating a little bit.

Bloody odd day.

Orangeanddemons Sat 05-Oct-13 18:43:44

I think your doctor is crap tbh. Sorry. Insomnia is a side effect of ssris, so needs to treated or at least considered. She could easily give you something to make you sleep which isn't addictive like atopic lone, and fwiw, my psych wasn't at all concerned about long term zopiclone. I think you will find psych team much more helpful.

Your doctor could have switched you to, or prescribed any of the sedating anti depressants such as tramadol,, mirtazapine or amytriptiline.

Orangeanddemons Sat 05-Oct-13 18:44:47

Having said that when I took sertraline I had permanent insomnia on it, and did sort of cope with it after a bit. Not ideal though

Orangeanddemons Sat 05-Oct-13 18:45:26

iPad grrrr trazadone not tramadol

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 18:47:27

Well they've given me two weeks off and a further two weeks if I need it and if I'm not sleeping after that, they are going to have to sort something out. Maybe best just going straight through the psyche team though?

One of the doctors just seemed absolutely fine with the idea of me just 'not sleeping' for 50% of the time.

Orangeanddemons Sat 05-Oct-13 18:53:12

But why give you 2 weeks off for something that is easily treatable? It's just shit shit care.

Doctors are notoriously bad at treating insomnia, I would wait for the specialists who will prescribe anythinggrin. Meanwhile someone's or phenergan are good to help you sleep

Orangeanddemons Sat 05-Oct-13 18:53:30

Aargh sominex

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 18:55:21

Thanks, the doctor assured me that sertraline 'does not cause insomnia' and I was just 'addicted' to the sleeping tablets.

Orangeanddemons Sat 05-Oct-13 19:00:18

What shit. All the Srris cause insomnia. They make the brain pump,out serotonin 24 hours a day. So there is no reduction in it which would occur naturally when you go to sleep. Look on the side effect leaflet. They are known for it.

Are you sure you have a proper doctor? grin she doesn't seem to know her arse from her elbow to me

Orangeanddemons Sat 05-Oct-13 19:00:46

I took Zopiclone for 3 months. No addiction issues at all

valiumredhead Sat 05-Oct-13 19:01:38

Have you been v gradually cutting down the sleeping tablets? You can't just stop them over night or you feel like shit, it says this in the leaflet in the box. You need to cut a bit off the tablet and gradually reduce over a month.

Then plan to stop maybe on a Friday and you WILL have a shit night ime but next night will be better.

How's your sleep hygiene? Ime you need to have a very strict sleep routine.

Orangeanddemons Sat 05-Oct-13 19:02:07

Plus sertraline is what as known as an activating anti depressant so again more likely to cause insomnia

valiumredhead Sat 05-Oct-13 19:02:43

I had huge issues with zopiclone, they are right not to prescribe loads.

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 19:06:50

They haven't given me the prescription to cut them down slowly (have been on them for 6 weeks) just told me to 'wait four days then have four days of sleep then wait four days'

I've done today and I am dreading tonight, I know I am just going to lie there, and lie there and lie there.

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 19:07:20

Valium, what were your issues with zopiclone?

Queenofknickers Sat 05-Oct-13 19:12:03

Another AD it is worth mentioning to the psych team when you see them is Agomelatine (Valdoxan) - it is taken at bedtime, mimics the hormones that make you sleep and is a v good antidepressant with few side effects - not widely known about as quite new/expensive but changed my life. Good luck thanksthanksthanks

valiumredhead Sat 05-Oct-13 19:16:25

Read the leaflet about cutting down gradually, it says it in there.

I tried to stop suddenly-dreadful insomnia, swimming head, dizziness couldn't stop crying.

Dh was taking them recently and the nurse made a point of telling him to cut down very slowly. Dh did a week of half, then a quarter, then an eighth then had 3 nights of bad sleep then was fine with good sleep hygiene.

valiumredhead Sat 05-Oct-13 19:20:12

If you can't sleep then get up and read, or do the ironing or whatever but don't lie there trying to sleep. Then get into bed again, if you still can't sleep then get up and distract yourself again. Do this every time.

Same time to bed every night after a warm bath.

Milky drink.

No telly or computer an hour before going to bed.

Read while in bed.

Get up if you can't sleep.

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 19:28:10

Been trying the no screen thing, no milky drink though... I always feel like a cliche when I do that!

Will find a book to read tonight, thanks for the tip.

valiumredhead Sat 05-Oct-13 19:41:50

Milky drink helps with routine, it's like your body thinks 'oh yes,I remember I'm meant to go to sleep after this.'

Dh was going to sleep with a flask of horlicks so when he woke up he could just sit up and read and have a drinkgrin

valiumredhead Sat 05-Oct-13 19:43:01

A lot of it is trying not to panic when you can't sleep or you get into the wrong mind set. Easier said than done but better if you have a plan.

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 19:51:27

The panic is hard, 'if I go to sleep now I'll only have 5hrs etc

valiumredhead Sat 05-Oct-13 19:54:18

Yes but having a plan in place helps with that as you know exactly what to do when you wake. I used to listen to talking bookssmile

valiumredhead Sat 05-Oct-13 19:55:02

Don't look at the time, put the clock away before bed so you're not focusing on it.

Have you tried sleep hypnosis? I have the Paul McKenna app that has pretty much sorted my sleep issues out. And the advice that lying down in a dark room is as restful as medicated sleep is not far off. I don't know about prescription meds but I've taken anti histamines to sleep and they really only knock you out, they don't provide decent sleep. Also, believing that lying awake in the dark is almost as good as sleep helps me not to panic when I can't sleep!

ozymandiusking Sat 05-Oct-13 20:09:49

Did you go to bed at 9.30 p/m you said it was 11.30p/m and had been lying there for 2 hours.
I think you are going to bed too early.
You need to follow the same routine every night.Possibly taking your makeup off,have a warm bath, go to bed read for half an hour,whatever suits you.But follow the same routine go to bed at the same time,set the alarm and always get up at the same time.

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 20:13:18

Yeah I often go to bed at 9.30/10.

Up at 6 or latest 7.

earlyriser Sat 05-Oct-13 20:21:59

I think i also read somewhere that getting UP at the same time everyday, regardless of how much sleep you have had, or when you went to bed/fell asleep, is hugely important in improving insomnia. So no lie ins after a crap night's sleep, or at the weekend.

I guess this is difficult if you work shifts, but while you are signed off it may be worth trying.

No sleep is shit, hope it improves soon.

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 20:24:06

I really, really don't want to get up at 6am every day...

valiumredhead Sat 05-Oct-13 20:38:47

That does sound incredibly early. I would aim for 10.30 and up at 7, that's loads of sleep. Yes getting up at same time is important.

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 20:40:14

I have to get up at six the days I have college though, otherwise I only have half an hour to get me and the kids ready (husband would kill me I reckon)

filee777 Sat 05-Oct-13 20:48:56

But yes, I will do half ten, watch the news then go to bed.

silvermirror Sat 05-Oct-13 22:03:17

I avoid the news before bed because news before bed can be quite disturbing and in some cases horrific, One Night i caught the last headline warning the public that a seriel killer was on the run after an escape from prison with a mug shot, couldnt sleep all Night! So i avoid news, horror films, murder suspence at least an hr before bed. So id say a big no no to news before bed.

kim147 Sat 05-Oct-13 22:59:12

Hope you got some sleep tonight. After all those maths questions grin

filee777 Sun 06-Oct-13 08:33:49

Great news guys, I was anxious til about 11, then tried reading a book in bed, fell asleep naturally just after 12! And slept through til now! Bless husband leaving me to sleep!

filee777 Sun 06-Oct-13 08:34:29

thanks kim, I was SO pleased I got the same answer as you!

valiumredhead Sun 06-Oct-13 09:38:12


filee777 Sun 06-Oct-13 10:17:55

Definitely getting me some Horlicks for tonight, bed an hour before I want to sleep and am just going to read.

I think one of the biggest things that helped was me saying 'right if I don't sleep after 20mins of trying I will just forget trying to sleep, turn the light on, wait 40mins and then try again'. I did that sort of 'guilt free' getting to sleep routine three times last night and fell asleep with ease when I finally did.

LEMisdisappointed Sun 06-Oct-13 11:00:30

Whoop whoop smile Well done fillee!

kim147 Sun 06-Oct-13 11:03:24

Sleep is a weird thing. I struggled in the first few nights on the tablets but had a busy day yesterday so was tired.

Horlicks and a book sound good.

I just need closure on that maths question grin

filee777 Sun 06-Oct-13 11:15:47

Yes the maths question is biting isn't it!

Thanks for this thread guys, it's really, really helped smile

valiumredhead Mon 07-Oct-13 14:40:41

How's it going OP?smile

filee777 Mon 07-Oct-13 17:08:28

I couldn't get to sleep last night so I took a sleeping tablet.

Today i am shaky and nervous but i think that is more to do with social anxiety and issues with girls at Uni than anything else. I have asked to be moved tutor groups because they are just being AWFUL to me.

Oh well, I am sure it will all come out in the wash.

I will try the horlicks/book thing again tonight (it was really nice to do that anyway actually) and i was very good not to look at my phone or a screen. I will be a bit pissed tonight too so... might help ;)

valiumredhead Mon 07-Oct-13 17:13:56

If you need to take another one just take half, it'll be enough to knock you out still.

How you get things sorted, are they mean girls?sad

filee777 Mon 07-Oct-13 17:16:49

They are bloody awful girls yeah sad Not what i need when i am shaking and trying to hold everything together. I actually struggled to hold a pen this afternoon it was dreadful.

filee777 Mon 07-Oct-13 17:17:01

Will definitely do the half pill thing x

filee777 Mon 07-Oct-13 22:32:48

Really uneasy tonight, just thinking about the day and all the stuff that's gone on. I wish I didn't have these issues with these girls, it's really bloody upset me. Nervous and scared for tomorrow.

valiumredhead Tue 08-Oct-13 21:49:06

Oh you poor thing that's rottensad can talk to your tutor?

kim147 Tue 08-Oct-13 22:46:08

Hope today went ok. That stuff shouldn't be happening at Uni.

Sorry to read you are having a hard time at uni. I've just read the whole thread because I'm having sleep/alcohol problems.

filee777 Wed 09-Oct-13 19:12:26

So another night of no tablet tonight, I've asked for the doctor to phone me tomorrow because I am unsure about dealing with going back to work before i have managed to speak to the psyche team and understand what the hell is going on.

The college thing seems to have evened out, I dont treat people differently based on past shite so they seem to have laid off me a bit. I have asked to move tutor groups and the tutors have all agreed that is acceptable, just waiting to see what the next bit will be, whether i will just move into a group of 5 and be an extra one or whether they will ask someone to swap with me.

My biggest issue is that one of the girls decided that as she had created a facebook group for us all to communicate on, she was suddenly the moderator and decider of everything in that group. In the last tutorial (considering i was like shaking and obviously very distressed all day) she decided to start throwing her weight around, how she would be deciding who stayed in the group and who didnt etc.

I responded very clearly with 'it needs to be democratic, you cannot just decide to 'oversee' something without so much as a vote!' and she continued to sort of get at me. It was weird because I find it really hard to validate my feelings but one of the other girls in the group said she felt very much that it was directed at me and an attack on me (for absolutely no reason) which did help me feel a bit more like my opinions mattered.

I dont have an issue being with them in class at all but i really really dont want to be in a very small tutor group with them. Lots of the rest of the group have mentioned that they dont really understand why the two girls have been put together, given that they obviously have some sort of friendship and seem to club together in class and stuff.

Anyway, I hope that will be the end of it, I will either move tutor groups or just have individual meetings with my tutor which is fine. Just a shame really!

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