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Carers of family members with BPD\MH issues - are you out there?

(205 Posts)
floramckitchen Fri 14-Jun-13 20:43:40

Hi - I have an 18 yo dd who is a recently diagnosed BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) sufferer. I am coping as best I can and working full time but could do with some support from some fellow carers.

I have had some brilliant advice on the Borderline Personality Disorder thread (thankyou SirBoob and Heffa) but feel we could all support each other in times of crisis.

fifietta Sun 16-Jun-13 17:17:37

Hi,
I'm a single mum. My daughter, now 15, has had a hugely turbulent and troubled few years. Lots of issues with friendships, resulting in self-harm, depression. She was referred to CAMHS for the second time in June of last year and put on ADs (sertraline). She refused to 'talk' to anyone and thought her psychatrist was patronising, though made vaguely positive noises about art therapy...six months down the line a trainee art therapist, who was lovely but with poor English was finally made available and predictably my DD did not want to engage.

In my desperation I researched every type of therapy going and eventually found an intervention - Dialectical Behaviour Therapy - for adolescents with 'Emerging' BPD which sounded so good and something she might agree to do as it involved group therapy too (btw I didn't really think that she had BPD, just that this therapy sounded just right). I put this to the psychiatrist who agreed to refer her and after a pretty long wait, as there was a waiting list, we had our first appointment two weeks ago and DD had an individual session last week. They have up to 6 sessions to firm up commitment before signing up as there are huge funding costs I think. At this session she was told her diagnosis was now emerging BPD. I'm worried about this as I know she may use it as her 'identity' and that people will use this against her as many have done with her depression - she did kind of use this as her identity before. I'm also pinning my hopes on this treatment, but so worried that she will decide not to do it. I don't feel we can go on as we have been.

Life is a rollercoaster, At this moment she is lying in bed, Blackberry welded into her hand for reasons I won't go into. Every weekend there is a drama episode of one kind or another usually triggered by something she has seen or a comment someone has made on the iniquitous internet/BBM/Tumblr.

I feel absolutely helpless, powerless, don't know what to say/do for the best, tearful at times.

I think it's great that you've started this thread Flora. Hope you're ok and if we carry on can compare and support.

floramckitchen Sun 16-Jun-13 19:37:03

Hi Fifi - I know exactly what you mean when you say life is a rollercoaster of emotion. I also get the weekend drama although that is probably because my dd has her therapy every Saturday afternoon, so she gets very wound up beforehand and very tearful and angry afterwards.

Someone on another thread has recommended DBT and has highly recommended it as she is a BPD sufferer herself. I am going to request it when the CBT has finished and see what happens.

My dd had a kind of breakdown in early February and the doctor said she was depressed and prescribed Citalopram which she was allergic to. She is now on Fluoxetine which seems to be ok and it has lifted her mood but obviously has no effect on the BPD behaviour.

She has been suicidal and threatened suicide 3 times this year and we ended up at a&e each time. The first time she came home and the crisis team came out and the second and third time she was admitted onto the mental health assessment unit.

This is the hardest thing I have every had to cope with and makes family life very difficult and impossible to plan anything in advance. I find it difficult to go to work every day because I am always thinking the worst and imagining that she is self harming.

Anyway , its good to know that there is someone out there that can really understand what its like to live with dd who has had a BPD diagnosis. I find most people just don't get it at all!

My dd is a lovely girl and I am positive she will learn to cope with her condition but she will need lots of support along the way.

Stay positive Fifi!

Flora

SirBoobAlot Mon 17-Jun-13 00:35:07

Hi, just popping in, hope that's okay. I recommended a few books over on the Borderline thread, Fifi, that might be worth having a glance at? I've found them useful, but they have also been useful to my parents / those closest to me.

DBT, CAT and STEPPS are the recommended therapies for BPD / EID, especially DBT and STEPPS, both of which have excellent results worldwide.

I won't intrude in your space, but if I can be of any assistance with recommendations or insight, give me a shout.

There is hope smile

fifietta Mon 17-Jun-13 22:08:46

Thanks SirBoob, I've had a look at that thread and have noted down the books...although I've read SO much already on various websites.

Flora, I feel the same about my daughter...she is lovely too, but so utterly at the mercy of all the nuances of relationships...and things seem to flare up just when you think things have been relatively stable for a while (a while can be a day or a few hours). I've felt slightly better about going to work recently, as DD has changed schools and is now attending - she missed most of the last term at her previous school, refusing to go because of what people thought of her, but there's always that anxiety that something might happen. You are right that planning anything is hard, as is inviting people to the house!

So far, thank God, she has not had to go to hospital, although she has frequently said she wants to go to 'be fixed', but I have found suicide notes to friends and just this evening the beginning of one to me which she had written yesterday when things were going wrong for her. I've also found notes she's written in school telling people she's tried to kill herself five times. I don't know how true that is or how serious the attempts were. At the moment her cutting is quite bad and I noticed lots of fresh cuts/scratches this evening.

I haven't yet told many people that DD has this diagnosis. I'm actually not totally convinced it's accurate, but if it has to be to access the DBT, then I'm prepared to go along with it. The worst thing about her depression has been people either saying that it's attention-seeking, or just normal teenage stuff....that has been very hard.

How long has your DD been feeling like this? Did it affect her when she was still at school? How does she feel about the CBT? Although DBT is a well-known treatment, I'm not sure how widely available it is and if there's more provision in particular areas. Whereabouts are you?

So glad you're feeling positive...I'm trying!

thanks

floramckitchen Tue 18-Jun-13 22:33:25

Hi Fifi

I must admit you daughter sounds exactly the same as mine! She is also very worried about what people think of her and that stops her doing a lot of things. She was quite good at going to school (despite the bullying) and got 10 gcses with good grades and then went to college and did a 2 year BTEC in Graphic Design and did quite well at that too.

The problems really got a lot worse when she left college and lost her friends. That started the downward spiral from last September until the end of January this year when she had her mini breakdown. She has been very up and down since then.

In all honesty I think she has suffered for a long time and I think it was all triggered by bullying at secondary school. It was then that she became a 'drama queen' and started to self harm etc etc. There were also friendship problems which made her turn to some very dodgy boyfriends!

I have written a letter requesting DBT as the CBT is ending soon. My dd hasn't found CBT to be much help at all. I think it has just aggravated the BPD symptoms rather than treat them! We live in Essex so I'm not sure if she can even get it.

My dd wanted the hospital to 'fix' her too but she soon came to realise that the only thing that will fix her is herself. The hospital was a very scary place indeed.

Stay strong! I understand exactly what you're going through

x

fifietta Fri 21-Jun-13 18:39:39

I've just had a job finding this thread again as it had disappeared from my 'I'm on' section. I'm not very good at this!

Flora I've just seen your tattoo postings and I'm so impressed with your reaction...as you said she is 18 and an adult and I'm sure she felt loved. My daughter nags relentlessly about piercings, which you can legitimately have before you're 18. I'm wavering on the nose as I actually quite like them but horrified at the idea of 'snakebites' which was her mantra for a while. Things have gone relatively quiet on that front though.

I had a call from her new school this week saying she'd had an 'incident' in a science lesson where she'd started crying, then asked to go out. I was relieved that she hadn't been loud about it as I'm afraid I often feel that she wants to be noticed. She told me she'd just not been feeling good and didn't know why - this is often her response, that she has very negative feelings and doesn't know why, but she tends to get angry when I suggest possible factors...I think she just can't bear discussing it with me.

Did you say your daughter has a boyfriend? Mine has been seeing a lovely boy, a year older, for about 6 months now. people ask why that doesn't make her feel better. I guess it does to a degree but she is still desperate for friends....

x

floramckitchen Fri 21-Jun-13 20:51:34

Hi Fifi

The similarities between our two girls is a bit spooky. My dd nagged me for a piercing when she was 14 or 15 and I kept on saying no and then on her 16th birthday she went and had her lip pierced ! I didn't like it but to be fair I don't even notice it now. Unlike the septum piecing that she had on her 18th birthday. OMG it was hideous ! she agreed in the end and she had it taken out. Phew !... I must admit I don't like the snakebite look either I can appreciate how you must be feeling.

I've not seen the tattoo yet but I have decided to be calm about it. We'll see!

My dd often cries when she feels down or having negative thoughts. If I ask her why she is crying she says its because she hates herself inside and out. However, that's progress because she always used to say she didn't know what was making her so tearful. I think all her issues started with the bullying and its not easily forgotten.

Her boyfriend is a year older and has been very supportive and spent whole days visiting her when she was on the mental health ward. The trouble is he often unwittingly triggers off self harming etc by going out clubbing and the resulting pictures on the dreaded facebook.

One of her best friends is a lad she met while in hospital who is an alcoholic. They understand each other completely and when they see each other its like a kind of therapy for both of them.

Its certainly a very difficult thing to live with but at least your daughter is getting some treatment at a younger age so hopefully should have learnt some coping strategies by the time she gets to 18.

Good luck and wishing you a drama free weekend!

Flo

floramckitchen Fri 05-Jul-13 19:59:32

I'm struggling again.

DD is self harming badly and says its the only thing that makes her feel better.

Its all so upsetting - I'm just gonna get in bed and pull the covers over my head. Not allowed to show too much of my own emotion because it makes her worse.

Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggg!

fifietta Sat 13-Jul-13 08:11:24

Hi Flo,

I'm sorry I haven't been on for a while or commented/replied to your last post....things have been difficult here too. How are you? It is such hell when our DDs are doing this and I really feel for you that this has been happening. Do you comment on it when your DD self harms? I find that, in some ways, it affects me a bit less now than it did when she first started doing it, when I was distraught (even though she has scarred her beautiful skin) and I think this must be a defence mechanism thing kicking in. DD gets angry when I mention her SH, although she doesn't try much to hide it from the world. She broke up with her boyfriend just over a week ago and cut herself badly last Saturday. She now seems to have forgotten him completely and I'm worried because I think to some extent he kept her on the straight and narrow and she seems to be hanging out with some girls I'm very wary of.

Everything I know and everything I read and that others advise is to try to detach and look after ourselves. Don't you find that almost impossible?! At times, unless DD is with other people, I can't go out without her being constantly in my thoughts...is she lying in bed/bingeing etc. And as you've said it's so hard to plan anything...

Just wondered, how did you DD eventually get her diagnosis?

The group part of DBT started this week. DD hasn't said much about hers except that it was okay. I think the parents group is going to be good. It is hard not to wonder how all our respective children ended up like this though. I was looking at each of the parents for signs!

Do you have any other children Flo? And a DH or partner and is he supportive?

I know I haven't been a good poster, but would like to keep this thread going!

Take care of yourself and sending you lots of love xx

fifietta Sun 14-Jul-13 17:54:30

Feeling awful as I think DD is taking money out of my purse. I'm so scatty myself at the moment that I'm never 100% how much is there, but think I've lost £20 and now £5 or £15. I've asked her straight out and of course she's denied it. It's the most horrible feeling. Her behaviour seems to be further and further beyond my control. She's incredibly powerful and I feel any sanctions - like grounding - would simply be ignored.

Is there any way this thread could be posted in more than one section?I.e. in teens as well as mental health?

floramckitchen Mon 15-Jul-13 19:47:29

Hi Fifi

Its nice to hear from you but I'm sorry you are going through such a bad time. I can identify with that .

My dd has now started self harming on her legs which I didn't know about until last Saturday when she put her shorts on. I didn't say a word but she knew I had seen it and that I was upset. I just got the hoover out and did a bit of violent hoovering until I felt calmer. Her left forearm is a mess of scars but I don't talk about it now unless she does. Its not worth it because it just ends up in rows and bad feeling.

She was diagnosed with bpd by the hospital psychiatrist and I have written a letter requesting DBT but haven't heard anything yet.

In recent months she has realised that she was raped by a former dodgy boyfriend - it happened 2 years ago now. Anyway last thursday she asked me to report it to the Police which I did. This resulted in a home visit by 2 Policeman and then a trip to the police station so that she could give video evidence. Police have advised that she have rape crisis counselling too. I'm not sure what will happen next or whether the boy has been arrested yet.

To answer some questions....

I have a fairly unsupportive DH and another 24 year old daughter who lives in London.

I understand its hard to detach yourself from it because it is all consuming - I can't do it either!

Sorry about the money going missing - is it anything to do with the new crowd she is mixing with? Do they smoke and drink or do drugs? She might be taking it for them.

How is it today? I broke down at work today because a colleague told me that its not my job to solve all this. It was a difficult day......

Anyway, take care and you know where to find someone who understands what you're going through. I will check this thread everyday just in case!

Flo

fifietta Thu 25-Jul-13 10:21:32

Hi again Flo,

I'm sorry it's been so long again since I've posted...sometimes I'm just too exhausted!

How bloody awful that your DD was raped. But brave of her and you to decide to report it and for her to have to give video evidence. The positive I see in that is that she has talked and confided in you about it, so I wonder if she does talk to you much?

Every day brings another challenge with DD. I absolutely dread coming home from work and finding her usually at some screen or other (often in bed with her blackberry) and barely able to respond to hello and then if she does being hyper-aware of her tone of voice - is she down, okay, pretending to be okay? I'm afraid I've become obsessed with the general unhealthiness of internet and phone use and can't stand seeing her 1. waste her life away on screens 2. create and follow depression/self-harm/bpd blogs on tumblr and think that people on there really need her or she needs them - such a skewed view of relationships, though I also understand that they are easier to manage than real ones. 3. people say things by text and on the internet that they would never say face to face. And either I have to act and remove the BB some of the time or put up with it I guess, but I fear her response...I'm sure you can understand that!

She didn't go to school for her last 2 days on Monday and Tuesday. She had her individual therapy on Monday and seemed sort of okay when I got home, but suddenly had a huge downer - found her in her room and she had clearly cut herself but was hiding it. She said she didn't want to live anymore. she will never say what has happened, just that she's angry and upset. It turned out it was the boyfriend she split up with 3 weeks ago. She said she had to go to the park to meet him and off she went. I then had a phone call from the dad of one of her friends who said that his DD was on her way over as my DD 'was going to kill herself'. I found 2 suicide notes on one of her tumblr pages (1 to her family, one to boyfriend), then had a call from him asking me to come. So I ran to the park where he was holding her - she shouted at me not to touch her - and she then ran off. Poor boy had clearly been crying and handed a craft knife, her anti-depressants and a bottle of ferrous sulphate to me. Eventually, with my neighbour's help, we found her sitting on a 15' wall and after a while she came down.

As far as I know, this is the first really over-dramatic, desperate attempt she's made to keep someone, although she has certainly talked of/written things to others.

She seemed okay, but when I spoke to my link DBT person the next day she said DD had to have a blood test, so we spent 5 hours in A&E on Tuesday evening. She told the psychiatrist there that she'd also taken paracetamol - I didn't know - and it was spelt out to her exactly how dangerous that is.

Yesterday she tried to get out of group DBT for the 2nd week running (this is the problem, we are so lucky to be accessing it, yet she has past form on backing out of things at the last minute) but I and the therapist managed to get her to go. She was vile to me afterwards when I said no to getting MacDonalds - ruder than she's ever been and was picking leaves off hedges and throwing them at me. When she said she wouldn't go to last week's DBT I'm afraid I said that she'd made an agreement and that if she didn't follow through I wouldn't follow through on my agreement to provide her mobile phone and I would pay her £5 if she went! It worked, but the trouble is I worry that I'm reinforcing manipulative behaviour. We can't do right can we?!

I'm so sorry, I seem to have rabbited on and on. Once I started every detail just came out. I hope you don't mind and hope you will do the same if you want to.

Have you read this book? It's on my reading list and I think I may get it. It has good reviews though some said it was better on the 'understanding' than 'coping'.

Borderline Personality Disorder in Adolescents: A Complete Guide to Understanding and Coping When Your Adolescent Has BPD by Dr B Aguirre.

I hope you're managing to get some enjoyment from this lovely weather! I'm afraid on Monday evening I enjoyed lots of wine!

Take care,

Fifi

floramckitchen Thu 25-Jul-13 21:40:36

Hello Fifi

I am trying to enjoy the weather but its very hard to be as enthusiastic as everybody else seems to be!

It sounds like you've had a stressful time recently and I'm sorry to say that I have too. My DD seems to be re-living the feelings that she suppressed after her rape. Usual bpd symptoms have gone into overdrive with lots more tears, cutting, self hatred etc.

On the upside she has been allocated an ISVA (Independent Sexual Violence Advisor) who has recommended a (yet another!) counsellor and will be on the end of the phone whenever needed to advise about benefits, court procedures etc etc. She seems lovely and I think she will be helpful.

DD has been saying that she wants to go back into hospital because the suicidal thoughts are coming back. I hope she doesn't because its her 19th birthday soon. Its not a nice place believe me!

She is still with her boyfriend who is a bloody miracle worker. He helps me a lot. Although she does tell me most of her worries eventually.

I think that you and I and our girls have a long road to recovery ahead. Us mums have to stay strong and try and keep a sense of humour. If we stay consistent and continue to be there when needed that will be a massive support to the girls.

Meanwhile all we can do is sneak the odd glass of wine or watch a funny thing on telly or a have a hot bath and try and relax when we can and conserve energy for the next drama.

We're doing a bloody brilliant job! and from my point of view its truly the hardest thing I have ever had to cope with.

Take care and keep your chin up

Flo

PS - I will try and get hold of that book, knowledge is power.

fifietta Sat 27-Jul-13 08:26:16

Hi Flo,

I'm so sorry that things are so difficult for you at the moment too. It's incredibly painful to watch our DDs having such a hard time getting through life. As you say it will be a long road to recovery, but we have to (all we can do) is hang on in there and believe it will happen. I guess your daughter's rape must have contributed to her being unwell, even if she didn't interpret it as rape at the time...to be thinking about it 2 years later it must have been horrible time. Having the ISVA to advise on practical stuff when often that's enough to put anyone off going through a court case is seems really positive - someone who knows what they're talking about.

I don't remember whether you've said, but is your DD on medication?

I've been so impressed by the DBT team. I think I mentioned that I have a link person who has already spent quite a bit of time talking to me on the phone, along with DD's therapist. They are so skilled and systematic about working through every aspect/step of events, behaviour, thoughts, feelings etc. I know DD is going through the motions at the mo, but hope she will begin to feel that this might be a way forward for her if she keeps going.

Do you find things are better when you are both out of the house? We had a lovely day yesterday, shopping for holiday stuff and going to IKEA as DD wants to change her room. We even managed to laugh together which is SO rare.

Oops DD alert. I will try to do more later.

Fifi

floramckitchen Sat 27-Jul-13 11:47:56

Hi Fifi

I still haven't heard anything regarding DBT. Mental Health services are rubbish in our area so I won't hold my breath!

You're right about things seeming better when we are out. I put that down to the fact that I am usually buying her stuff that she wants and that lifts her for a short while. Not so when we went to a family wedding ! she found it a struggle to keep up her 'happy and normal' act and ended up with stomach pains and spent the reception in and out of the ladies loo. Needless to say we had to come home early.

DD is on 40mg of fluoxetine daily plus the occasional Zopiclone when she can't sleep.

News just in...... Her boyfriend is buying her 2 new tattoos for her birthday. One on each thigh.

She went out clubbing last night and stayed out all night. Still not home but is safe and well at her boyfriends house. I'm hoping she had fun!

I am glad you managed to have a laugh together with your dd. Is she on any medication? Maybe they are kicking in.

Have a good day
Flo

fifietta Sat 27-Jul-13 14:58:37

I'm sorry, I did laugh when I read your news update! I'm waiting for the day DD turns 18 - when I'm sure she'll be camping outside the tattoo parlour. She is mixed race but has always wanted blonde hair and that became particularly pressing recently as she's devastated that she can't dye her hair different colours. So pressing in fact, that she got a friend to bleach it and put the colours in. Now of course it's as dry as straw and looking green...

I'm very aware that the good trips are the shopping ones, although usually DD flags after about an hour and I spend the rest of the time trying to gee her up in some way. Arranging to do anything else is touch and go. She used to love going to my parents but that has now changed completely, particularly since they confronted her about her depression which she really wasn't up for (it's her age too of course). They are not the most subtle. WE've got a family lunch tomorrow which I'm keeping my fingers crossed for. Two of her cousins will be there which is a bit of an incentive. But she often says she feels like an outsider because of her colour.

She's been on Sertraline for over a year and her first psychiatrist put it up from 25mg to a 125mg eventually. It seemed to do something for a few weeks but I think that was placebo. She's back down to 25mg and is going to come off it soon. We'll see if her DBT skills will help (if she keeps going).

I hope your DD reaches home safe and sound.

Enjoy your weekend,

Fifi

P.S. Fifi is actually the name of our cat and it doesn't come easy for a 50-something woman to be signing off as that!

fifietta Sat 27-Jul-13 15:01:45

I just wanted to say that it's early days, but if I learn anything really helpful from the DBT sessions I'll pass it on. No substitite for treatment but there may be some things you could try...

floramckitchen Sat 27-Jul-13 17:06:17

Thank you ! Please pass on anything that you think might be helpful. I would appreciate that.

Its funny that you should mention your dd's hair. My dd went bottle blonde when she was about 15 with occasional pink bits. Then bright red and now its dyed black. She sometimes wears a long blue wig (don't you dare laugh!) because she says it makes her to feel like a different person. This is helpful because she says she hates herself and she can pretend she's ok.

She's still not home and I haven't had a phone call or text. I am assuming no news is good news!

I will enjoy the peace and quiet while I can.

Flo (Not my actual name but v v similar!)

floramckitchen Sat 27-Jul-13 17:08:54

Forgot to say good luck tomorrow at the family lunch. I am constantly on edge whenever family are present.

They can be quite cruel with their comments without really knowing they are doing it.

Anyway - really going now
Flo

SKYTVADDICT Sun 28-Jul-13 08:31:33

I would love to join your thread but not sure I have the time or energy. Dd1 17 is currently residing in a unit for adolescents with mh problems. No diagnosis as yet but self harms and eating disorder etc. Took an overdose so has ended up in the unit. Very very lucky to get the bed as they kept offering her an adult bed. She has been in fluoxetine for depression since xmas and under camhs a bit longer than that. She is being changed to sertraline (sp?) and being assesed for bipolar or bpd. She is the eldest of 4 and I work full time and am finding it all so hard. DH is away a lot too. She was supposed to be home for 3 nights from Thursday but ended up going back Friday night as she/I couldn't cope with her. She is coming out for the day today and has asked to sleepover but we shall see. Life is currently revolving around her and DD2 (13) isn't coping to well with it. We are trying to keep as much away from the ds's who are 6 and 4. I am rambling sorry! Your dds sound so much like my dd even down to changing hair colour all the time!

fifietta Sun 28-Jul-13 08:57:04

Hello Sky.

Please join us! I can completely relate to not feeling able, sometimes, to write anything down, but just keep checking in and comment when you feel you can. It must be so difficult looking after the rest of your family when your DD is the focus of your emotional energy and DH is away. It really is so hard navigating and finding ways to relate to our DDs with their changing moods.
DD has just come in the room - don't think I'm meant to write in the mornings. Will be back later...

Hope your day is peaceful.

Fifi

floramckitchen Sun 28-Jul-13 18:24:17

Hi Sky
You are very welcome to join our thread. I can't imagine what it must be like trying to take care of dd1 with 3 other children to look after. You must be exhausted with it all!

At least dd1 is getting the help she needs in the unit. Is it ok in there? My dd had two spells on the MH assessment unit but because she is 18 she was in with all the adults. I found it a very scary place and I know she found it a difficult place to be. She even managed to SH in there with a broken plastic spoon and barely ate anything. She has issues with food but hasn't been diagnosed with an ED.

Try and post on here as often as you are able - we can support each other through the tough times.

Take care
Flo

Fifi - I am hoping all was well at your family dinner. My dd is still away at her boyfriends and apparently not gracing me with her presence until Tuesday night - after she gets the new tattoos!!!

fifietta Mon 29-Jul-13 08:59:34

Thanks, lunch was fine in the end, despite my initial tension. We were at opposite ends of the table but I was hyper- aware of what DD was up to and whether she was okay and kept checking with her - I MUST stop doing that. At one point she was lining up cutlery and glasses, including her cousin's in a very obvious way and, I think, to be noticed. This is a facet of her character that I find so hard to deal with (and keep my mouth shut about) as it simply adds to people's view of her as attention-seeking.

Flo - I hope you managed to have a good weekend without too much worry with DD away. Sorry to say that, although I miss her, it is a break from constant anxiety when DD is not here! I'll look forward to hearing what you make of the tattoos...

Sky, if you're still here, hope yesterday was alright for you. Did DD stay over?

Fifi xx

SKYTVADDICT Mon 29-Jul-13 09:26:15

Thanks. We had a good day apart from a bit of aggression towards her sister who was being a pain but it caused tension, arguing and tears (mine too!). She did stay over and slept ok apparently - unlike me! Her boyfriend has just made her pancakes and she is going back at 11 as she has chocolate group this afternoon! The unit is a god send and only 10 mins down the road. She was so close to an adult bed about 15/20 miles away and they even offered us one in Northampton - about 2 hrs away! There are 12 residents of which she is the eldest, the youngest being 12! She has done yoga, digeridoo therapy and lots of art therapy. I am worrying now watching her eat as she is stuffing her face and will then hate herself for it! It is such a viscious circle. Its bad to say but at the moment I feel relieved when she goes back! I think we must all over analyse everything they do!

SKYTVADDICT Mon 29-Jul-13 09:29:06

I meant to say that she has managed to sh there too. Last weekend she broke a razor here and snuck the blades back in. She is checked much better when she gets back now!

floramckitchen Mon 29-Jul-13 15:02:57

Hi fifi

I know what you mean about the 'lining things up' behaviour. My dd does it when we go to to asda . Everything has to line up on the conveyor belt thingy. Then she packs it in the bags and it has to be done in a certain way. OCD???

Sky - the unit your dd is in sounds like a reasonably pleasant place. It sounds as if they make a bit of effort with all the different types of therapies and keep her busy. Do you know why your dd is so ill. Was there a specific incident ? or did it just appear out of the blue?

When my dd first became ill it seemed as if it was out of the blue but as the months have passed I am now putting the pieces of the jigsaw together and can see that she suffered very badly after she was raped. She soldiered on and tried to cope until one day she just snapped and couldn't keep pretending she was ok anymore.

She has been staying with her boyfriend since Friday and I am starting to relax a little and feel the atmosphere in the house is a lot lighter. But at the same time I am worried about when she gets home and what the problems might be. I feel like there is a storm on the horizon!

Flo

PS - Have you lost weight with all the worry?? I've lost 2 stone since xmas without trying and still losing. I do eat but not got much appetite.

fifietta Mon 29-Jul-13 17:21:30

Hi Flo,

The trouble is my DD tends to 'take on' the characteristics of things she hears about. That is, she has never done lining things up before and it was very public if you get my drift...that's the aspect (the kind of doing it to be noticed bit) I find difficult. I so want her to get better that I can't bear it when she assumes new quirks to fit the role - I just want to tell her to 'grow up'! I won't of course.

I was worried about her watching that recent BBC3 programme (Don't call me Crazy?) set in the adolescent unit in Manchester as she has said she wants to go to hospital in the past and, to be honest, although there was disturbing stuff on there, it could be interpreted as fun and I'm not sure, but she may be capable of behaving in certain ways to get there.

When DD first started SHing and was referred to CAMHS, nearly 2 years ago I lost loads of weight, probably over a stone, and then again at the beginning of this year when I never knew what I'd come home to and she stopped going to school. I've put a lot back on now (I tend to comfort eat a bit too - probably unwittingly influencing her with this). It's not a way I'd ever recommend for losing weight!

Does your DD keep in touch with you when she's not at home?

I've just received letters from school about holiday homework. DD didn't attend the last two days so I'll probably have to ring round trying to get relevant sheets etc...I'm not at all confident she will do it...GCSEs are just not important to her and sadly I think she's going to do badly, which she really doesn't need to do - she's a bright girl. I have to keep telling myself she can re-take, but she is very anti any school stuff at the moment.

Glad you've managed to relax a little bit Flo, but can well imagine you're anxious about what her return will bring. Probably planning your responses etc?!

Enjoy this evening both of you,

Fifi

SKYTVADDICT Mon 29-Jul-13 18:17:24

Fifi - I also worried about the don't call me crazy programme. It wasn't nice. When DD went into the Unit they said to her that she was a bright girl and that she was to try and ignore the others and not do as they do, this is apparently a common problem!

Flo - I really don't know what triggered the latest episode - in the past it was her gcse exams - she did brilliantly in them though and got 3 A*s, 7As and 1B so is very bright - possibly too bright - "perfectionism" as an illness has been mentioned! This last time she says she hadn't self harmed for over 2 months but just started to feel sad! She asked me to sleep with her one Sunday night, took her 4 year old brother in with her on the Monday night (from his bed), seemed ok on the Tuesday but on the Wednesday had apparently had enough and took the overdose and cut her arm badly. I am cross with myself for not seeing it coming but she had never been that bad before. She had had a contraceptve implant on the Wednesday before and on googling side effects I think it could be that - but I could be clutching at straws - her Psychiatrist says it would be too soon to have had any effect - but it is effective as birth control straight away - I am trying to persuade her to have it removed.

I haven't lost any weight - I wish I had - she and I have always been on the large side - she lost 3st in 6 months (bulimic) and was still 10st 7lb. She has since put back on a stone which I don't think helps her negative thoughts!

Moxiegirl Mon 29-Jul-13 18:24:14

Hi...my dd (16) is diagnosed aspergers but this was a late diagnosis and is now being looked at for bpd, which I think she ticks every single box for.
She's in a psychiatric unit and has been on and off since last year. Funding has been agreed for 52 week residential but she just runs away and overdoses - we can't have her at home full time because she's a danger to herself, she's currently sectioned.
We are meant to be taking her away on holiday soon (section 17 leave), I'm petrified!

SKYTVADDICT Tue 30-Jul-13 10:25:05

Hi Moxiegirl. Nice to see somebody else new here.

Latest on DD is that she may now have to stay 4 weeks after 7 August (original discharge date had been set for 13 August) as they are changing her medication and it needs monitoring. She is due to start college on 1 September and restart her A Levels so we are hoping she is out by then! She also wants to come home for a few hours today as she is bored! I am hoping they say no so that it isn't on my decision.

Moxie - what is 52 weeks residential? Is that somewhere other than the unit? Also, I don't envy you taking her on holiday! There will be no holidays for us this year, just days out either with or without DD.

Moxiegirl Tue 30-Jul-13 12:36:11

Oh I know what you mean about hoping they decide it- they have said no leave this weekend and I'm so relieved confused
52 week residential as in therapeutic residential school for people with asd/mental health/emotional and behavioural issues.
Unfortunately looks like a long term hospital placement is more likely, so a move from her current hospital.

Moxiegirl Tue 30-Jul-13 12:43:37

Ps holiday is 3 nights at center parcs, dd's favourite place. Ds isn't coming as he can't cope with being near her! sad

floramckitchen Tue 30-Jul-13 19:17:31

Hi all

Welcome Moxie !

No holidays for us this year unfortunately. It was too stressful to try and plan anything so I decided not to bother at all. DD doesn't really 'do' holidays and wont come with us but wont be left on her own in the house either so I am a bit stuck! She was planning on going to the Reading Festival but has now changed her mind.

No tattoo news yet. She came home this afternoon while I was out and then went back out before I got home. No idea where she is now! She isn't answering her phone so I will have to sit it out.

Fifi - My dd didn't watch any of the 'Don't call me Crazy' programmes. I thought I would watch them first and then let her know if they would be beneficial for her to watch. I didn't they would do her any favours so kept quiet. She isn't much of a telly watcher anyway so is oblivious!

Moxie - Fingers crossed for your little holiday. Its just a shame that your ds cant cope with it. It seems like MH problems and bpd has the power to divide families. My DH can't be in the same room as DD because she stresses him out. He is now saying he can't face coming out with us on Saturday for her birthday. The joy seems to be sucked out of everything lately.

How do you feel about your girls being in residential care? has it altered your relationship at all? What happens when they are 18? Do they get transferred to an adult ward? I am worried that my dd will end up on an adult ward as she has been talking about wanting to go back to hospital. I just don't think it will actually help in any way. The other patients are so terrifying! One guy trashed his room and threw the wardrobe through the window the last time she was in there!

Moxiegirl Tue 30-Jul-13 20:02:24

Hi Flora!
Tbh we got to the stage that being at home was no longer an option, I really hope that one day she will be able to have her own supported living flat, but that's a long way off.

Moxiegirl Tue 30-Jul-13 20:03:54

The secure psychiatric units are even more scary, dd had a 2 week stint in one and was as good as gold because she was so terrified shock

floramckitchen Tue 30-Jul-13 21:31:43

Moxie

If your dd has to move hospitals do you know where she will potentially have to go? Is it far from where you live?

Moxiegirl Tue 30-Jul-13 21:37:58

There's a hospital in Northampton that specialises in emerging bpd, probably there. It's only a bit further from where she is now.

floramckitchen Tue 30-Jul-13 23:05:15

sounds ideal and not too far for visiting etc,

news just in ..... The tattoos are on the front of each thigh. One is of a rabbit with the words ' I am a rabbit hearted girl' and the other is of a lion with the words ' I must become a lion hearted girl'.
DD said they are song lyrics from a Florence and the Machine song.

I'm not sure what I think but can appreciate the meaning and the significance to dd. They look bloody sore though!

Moxiegirl Wed 31-Jul-13 07:43:33

grinShe happy with them?

floramckitchen Wed 31-Jul-13 11:27:36

She loves them! That's the main thing I suppose. Imagine the fallout if she hadn't liked them. It would have been like world war 3 was breaking out.

Her boyfriend was all smiles because he paid for them as a birthday present and they did seem very happy last night. He is having a tattoo of Batman on his back tomorrow morning.

She still hasn't woken up this morning so I hope her opinion hasn't changed overnight! She needs to start working on being that Lion hearted girl.

SKYTVADDICT Thu 01-Aug-13 09:11:40

Hi all. Regarding the Unit and my relationship with DD I think it helped that she actually wanted to go in there - I have had txts saying she isn't my friend anymore lol when she is down and wants to come home. It is so hard to know what to do for the best - everyone is telling me tough love - but all I seem to do is run around after her so as not to upset her! She is coming home some time today for 3 nights - maybe 4 if it goes ok - I am dreading it, I know I shouldn't but I know it will be like walking on egg shells. She was so "up" last night and wants to come this morning so I have to ring soon to see if she can. It is DS2s 5th birthday on Sunday and she is making lots of cakes for his 2 parties so will have lots to do. I told DH last night that I am not sure I can do a "happy face" for 4 days - I don't think he gets it. I am having aches and pains in lots of places, I think it is stress! Aaargh! Wish us luck for the weekend x

SKYTVADDICT Thu 01-Aug-13 09:13:41

Sorry that was a bit of a ramble.

DD also is a tatoo addict and I think she will be on the door step the day she turns 18 - it must be a changing your image thing as her whole illness appears to be based on her image and perception by other people. Or how she sees it!

floramckitchen Thu 01-Aug-13 14:02:48

Sky - my dd is the same. Its all about other peoples perceptions!

Back later

Moxiegirl Thu 01-Aug-13 17:01:13

Good luck sky, my anxiety returned with a vengeance last time my dd was home!

fifietta Thu 01-Aug-13 21:24:47

Hi all,

I'm sorry I haven't checked in for a while. We've been having a rollercoastery few days and I don't want to come on to whine etc. Lots of DD being rude, inviting friends for a 'party' when I was out, not wanting to live with me and then refusing to attend her group DBT (by feigning an all too familiar sickness)...it's that part that is truly awful as I've pinned everything on the DBT making a difference and we are SO lucky to have access to it. I know I shouldn't but I'm so desperate I'm resorting to threats and bribery.

I do feel blessed that DD hasn't been an inpatient, although she has wanted to be, but can totally see what a relief it must be to have some respite.

We are off on holiday tomorrow. I've actually booked 3 weeks away altogether as I just couldn't face the prospect of the two us being at home together. She's excited about the first week as we'll meet up with a family we met last year, but dead against the second 2 weeks - in France doing French in the mornings and beach the rest of the day (booked when she was making promises about working hard having missed so much school and then moved to another one). It's not impossible that she will refuse to go, so I will have to play things very calmly beforehand - walking on eggshells is right Sky!

The piercing, tattooing, hair-colouring thing really is a theme with our girls isn't it?

Not sure I'll be able to check in whilst on hol, but really hope you all have a peaceful-ish few weeks. As I write that I realise how stupid it sounds, as all we can often hope for is an hour or two at a time.

Sky - great that DD is baking, that is doing something and creative too!

Flo - the tattoo sentiments sound positive I think - a reminder for her.

Moxie - Wishing you lots of luck for your holiday.

Soon,

Fifi smile

Moxiegirl Fri 02-Aug-13 08:19:09

Hope it goes well fifi!

floramckitchen Fri 02-Aug-13 19:29:30

Hi all

Tattoos are healing nicely but apparently she has to go back to get the colour added. More pain!
She is talking about another one already - possibly a unicorn!

She had a bad day yesterday and there were lots of tears because she was hoping to be better by her 19th birthday which is tomorrow. Seems a bit better today because her friend came over and has persuaded her to go out tonight.

We are all off the the Butterfly Farm tomorrow so that will be nice if we actually get there! There are butterflies and birds and loads of animals which she loves.

I will keep my fingers crossed as it could all go horribly wrong! my dd has a habit of spoiling birthdays - even her own.

Sky - did your dd come home yesterday ? how are you coping?

SKYTVADDICT Tue 06-Aug-13 15:00:44

Hi all

We had a lovely 3 night weekend, all "normal" and busy with cakes and birthday parties but on Sunday night after tea (the 4th night) all went down hill and she ended up going back to the Unit. Apparently she is now saying it is because she didn't want to go back at all and knew she would be a problem for me (alone) to take back on Monday morning so asked to go back Sunday night instead for which I was very grateful. She has had a ward round meeting today and they say after new meds start tomorrow she can head towards extended leave of 4 nights, 5 nights etc but she just wants to stay home now. I have a meeting there tomorrow so will see. I don't know whether I want her home full time yet.

On the plus side she has decided not to retry A levels but to do a vocational course instead in Catering and Hospitality which I hope will be a lot less stressful for now. Just have to try and get her on a course, sort transport etc - just another little job to do!!!

Hope you are all ok and holidays, tatoos etc are all good x

floramckitchen Thu 08-Aug-13 13:12:43

Hi Sky

How did the meeting go at the unit? It seems like you are quite wary about your dd coming home full time.

Good news about the Catering course though. Hopefully it will be easier for her to cope with.

My dd had a good birthday up until the evening when she had a meltdown and hid in her bedroom for two hours. She was ok when she came back down though. It was quite weird.

Tattoos are healing nicely - thank god!

fifietta Sat 10-Aug-13 17:50:35

Hey all,

We got back from our first week away early this morning. DD had a great time, made loads of friends and had barely a word to say to me, which is all normal and okay!

However the proverbial has just hit the fan. We are due to go away again very early tomorrow morning and DD has been anti it for a while as we are going to France to do language in the mornings then free in the afternoons. This is because, having changed schools, she has missed loads and she agreed with the new school that she'd do French in her own time (nothing done so far).

She is supposed to be packing and to be fair has done some, with frequent encouragement/nagging (trying v hard to keep my cool). Every time I go in her room she is on her phone/a screen and I finally gave her a 5 minute warning that I was going to take them until she'd done. When I went to get them she point blank refused to hand them over, said they were hers (in fact I pay which I reminded her of). In the end I went to switch the internet off and she blocked my way screaming that she hated me and I was a 'fucking bitch'. This went on for some time. She also said she was 'talking' to someone who was going to kill themselves and if they did it would be my fault. Lots and lots of swearing - this has increased so much recently. It has also provided an excuse for her to say she's not coming to France.

I feel so shaken and powerless. Are any of your DD's behaving like this? She is quite capable of refusing to come and is SO powerful.

I finally said I would never respond to her when she behaved like that and would expect her to talk to me reasonably. She argues back about everything. However I did switch it back on. Also said that if someone was in danger then the parents or another adult should be told. She is so set against me and so convinced she is right.

All I've done is love her and try to set appropriate boundaries.

Sorry to complain but....help!!

Fifi

Hi all - I'm a bit of a lurker here as my DD18 is being assessed soon for BPD, having had a 10 week spell in an adolescent psychiatric unit last year following an attempted overdose. It's just over a year since she was discharged, so I'm very familiar with everything I'm reading here; the self-harm and obsession with tattoos are particularly resonant, as is the feeling of being pulled this way and that, and treading constantly on eggshells for fear of rocking the boat.

Some things that have helped me:

- Mumsnet! Especially some of the wonderful posts by Flow4 and others on the Teenage boards, from whom I have learned three vital skills:
1. Detach!
2. Look after yourself! This will help you and the rest of your family more than you can imagine.
3. This mantra: 'You can't change DD, you can only change your reactions to her'.

- I kept a journal last year when things were especially tough. It was a kind of brain-dump before going to bed, though I admit that I still spent many sleepless nights worrying. Reading back over it a year on is useful, as I can see how changing my behaviour, not hovering over DD the whole time, and re-engaging with my own life instead of panicking about hers has been a major factor in her recovery.

Finally, from my reading up on BPD I've learnt that one important thing is to validate their feelings. So instead of 'Don't be silly, of course h/she didn't mean that', I try to say 'Yes, I can see that must have made you feel as though they were telling you xxx'.

In the early stages of her illness (pre-overdose) my DD would spend virtually the whole day on Tumblr, which was a particular bugbear of mine, and I was frequently impatient and dismissive of it. Eventually I summoned the patience to ask her about the people she was 'talking to', and even to learn something from her about their stories, and I was impressed with the effort she made to give encouraging advice and the positive messages she posted. So it's not always bad, and for her it gave a sense of purpose in (at the time) an otherwise rather purposeless life.

Although I wouldn't say she has made a complete recovery, I'm pleased to say that my DD has had a job since the beginning of the year, and now that her friends have all finished their A levels (she gave up school before AS Levels) she is talking about finding something more challenging to do with her life. I feel cautiously optimistic that she will find her way eventually, though also aware that she will probably always be fragile.

I don't know if this helps in your current dilemma, Fifietta, and it's easy to give advice from afar, but maybe you could try a more detached approach - 'I know you have to finish what you're doing on the computer; could we aim to have your bag packed and ready by the front door in an hour's time?"??

Please feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more, and hang in there. Although I can honestly say that last year was the worst I've ever lived through, we are still here, and stronger as a family unit than we have ever been. This time last year I couldn't see more than 24 hours into the future, but now I feel cautiously optimistic that there is a rich full life ahead of us all.

Sorry for very long post, but hope this helps even a tiny bit!

x

SKYTVADDICT Sat 10-Aug-13 20:06:25

Oh no Fifi - I hope she has settle down a bit now? Luckily nothing like that here, really don't know how I would cope.

Hi Sijeunessesavait, I had tears in my eyes reading your post - I can't see that far ahead yet but you have given me hope and lots of good advice, especially the detach and look after yourself. I don't feel DH and I are getting on very well at the moment (it will be our 2nd anniversary on Tuedsay!) but he is telling me what you have and perhaps I haven't wanted to hear it until now! I will try and be nicer to him when he gets in from work lol!

The meeting went ok at the Unit on Wednesday. DD wasn't too pleased as they didn't give a discharge date, just another cpa meeting on 11 September when hopefully she will be at college. I think we negotiated extended leave from next Wednesday though - although both of us were a bit confused as to what was agreed - and this is all based on her being ok on the new meds - sertraline - she isn't sleeping well on them and feels tired all the time but I am hoping this is just as they are new.

Good luck tonight and tomorrow Fif on getting on your hols x

fifietta Sat 10-Aug-13 21:17:41

thanks Sijeunessesavait and Sky, I've also read lots of Flow's posts which are wise and generous and try to remember the 'detach' thing but it's so hard. I am a single parent of one and it's an intense relationship. To be honest that's as hard for her as it is for me as the poor thing is my sole focus (no sibs to share the load) which I feel sure has contributed to her difficulties.

I took your advice Si - thank you so much - and she did sort of respond in a small way, although she now says she's putting more in in the morning. She's still in her bed phone in hand. She feels she 'helps' people on Tumblr too, but I struggle with her obsession with it (and screens generally, which she is using constantly at home, as it becomes impossible to communicate with her) and the 'unreal' relationships she has there...I'd rather she spent her time with real people. She will be in year 11 in Sept' and is doing no work at school whatsoever. I need to have some internet boundaries in place but feel bullied and manipulated by her now. Also, she doesn't seem to mind others witnessing her behaviour...

I've kept a diary on and off too, but sometimes can't face writing/am too exhausted.

At least she is not still saying she won't go to France...though I'm not counting my chickens!

Sky - I hope you manage to celebrate on Tuesday and find some common ground. DD was also on sertraline for over a year but is now coming off. She was also tired a lot but it wasn't clear if it was the meds or her mood or her very unhealthy diet.

Flo if you're around, I remember you mentioning your DD's septum piercing. Mine, having been asking for a nose piercing has now moved on to the septum. I said I think not and she seemed to accept that. We shall see...!

May try to post whilst away

xx

Sky - we were advised by DD's therapist to ensure that her illness didn't 'split' us. I think that happens very easily when both parents are so wrapped up in their own feelings that it's very hard to find time to be partners to each other as well as parents to the child who is suffering, let alone any siblings. Try to use the remaining time that your DD is an inpatient to reconnect with your DH. Easier said than done, I know, and tbh it has taken months for us to get to that point, but looking back I can see that if we'd shored ourselves up as a couple when we had the opportunity, before she came home, it would have been better for all of us. I hope you can do something on your anniversary which reminds you of your common purpose. Is your DD's unit offering any family therapy? We went to a few sessions which were quite challenging, especially for my DH who doesn't enjoy analysing his emotions, but I found they could be a springboard for conversations together afterwards.

For what it's worth, Sertraline has been very effective for my DD - she's still on 100mg and has no noticeable side-effects now.

I hope the extended leave will give you more cause for optimism, and I'll be checking here to see how things are going.

Sending sympathetic thoughts to all
x

floramckitchen Sun 11-Aug-13 18:02:27

Hi Sij

You've given me some hope too - thank you!

I am constantly dealing with stress and drama and tbh it is wearing me out. In the last couple of weeks DH and I have been trying to get out a bit more. It was his 50th birthday so we had a day at the seaside,dd did not want to join in but we went anyway! When we got back home she demanded 100% attention from me as she had been lonely . Loads of tears and tantrums which did put a damper on the day.

I find myself worrying about her future a lot. She had to give up her job because she was too depressed to cope with it. She had worked in 3 part time jobs since turning 16 and never had a problem getting a job. But I wonder about the future so much and can't see a way through at all.

Did your dd get DBT? If so was it helpful?

Do you know what triggered your dd's bpd?

Fifi - I hated the septum piercing ! It would constantly drip drip drip ! and it was very ugly in my opinion. Dd said it was painful too. Good luck with the trip to France!

Hi Flora

I do feel for you and others here - it is so exhausting worrying about what might be around the next corner. My DD hasn't had any specific treatment for BPD yet; only a lot of CBT both before and while she was an inpatient. The assessment for STEPPS (via CMHS as she is now too old for the adolescent services) is in a couple of weeks, but I can see that she has made a huge amount of progress since they offered the appointment and I'm not sure if she will meet their threshold, which is a shame as I think a group therapy would be useful for her.

A number of factors seem to have been triggers for her illness - mostly bullying leading to low self-esteem despite being very bright and high-achieving. We only found out she was self-harming after she'd been doing it for 2 years - teenagers are so secretive and constantly swaddled in hoodies that she was able to hide it, even though I'd have said we had a close and open relationship. I try hard not to react when I see new cuts (she still self-harms, though less frequently) - it is an unhealthy coping strategy which she is trying to avoid, but impulsivity remains a problem.

DD's adolescent psychiatrist told me that he doesn't like to label anyone under 23 with a personality disorder as their brains are still developing, and once depression is treated (ie CBT + medication) the symptoms which may have appeared to be those of BPD etc may also disappear. I'm hoping that this may be the case for my DD and others here. Also I prefer the (I think American) term Emotion Regulation Disorder to Borderline Personality - that way you can think of it as an extreme version of normal adolescent behaviour.

A couple of months ago you wrote that your DD realises that the only thing that can fix her is herself. This is something for you to hold on to and remind her of - in an encouraging way. And it's a reason why going out for the day with your DH is important because staying around her all the time won't make her better. Nor will worrying about her future - not that you will ever stop worrying about it. I just feel thankful when I hear my DD talking about future events - even if they're only a couple of months ahead, as a year ago she was saying she didn't want to live. I wasn't at all sure that she would reach her 18th birthday, but now she is talking about things she wants to do next year. I really hope that dealing with the past trauma will help your DD to move forward. The fact that she is prepared to confront it and get help is positive.

Have you thought of getting some counselling for yourself? I was sure that I could survive this but have found that a safe space with someone who isn't too closely involved has made a huge difference to how I cope with the stress.

I don't pretend to be an expert or have all the answers, but I have found it so useful to read others' experiences, and I'm glad that my post gave you some hope. Hang on to that - it's all there is!

Fifi, I really hope you got off on holiday OK and will have a restful time.

xx

floramckitchen Sun 11-Aug-13 19:14:06

Thank you so much.

Several people have suggested that I get some counselling and I think it might be a good idea. Somewhere to get it all off my chest without offending anyone.

My dd is generally aware of the fact that she has to help herself but has lost all confidence to do anything much. I am worried that she is getting worse again.

Sometimes getting worse is a sign of getting better, strange as that may seem.

My DD took a second overdose this April - 11 months after the first one, just when I thought we were past the worst, and it felt like the end of the world as we knew it. However, it seemed to crystallise things for her, she bounced back faster than I could have believed possible, and the rate of progress since then has been much faster than in the previous 12 months.

I wonder if there is anything, however small, that your DD can feel confident about? Does she like to cook - if so, she could prepare a meal for you? Better still, could she help someone outside the family in a way which could boost her self-esteem? As Fifi and I have experienced, blogging on Tumblr, much as I hated it, gave a sense of community and purpose. Thinking about other people is definitely better than too much introspection. My DD wouldn't do any voluntary work, but perhaps that's something yours would consider? Feeling needed, and not just by family, can help.

Definitely get yourself some counselling if you can. Much as friends want to help, and are prepared to listen endlessly, they don't usually have the experience necessary to help you, and I ended up feeling as though I was being boring, repetitive and a burden, so avoided seeing them, which quickly became a vicious circle.

Be kind to yourself x

Moxiegirl Sun 11-Aug-13 22:42:28

Hi all!
Just survived a weekend of home leave without too much drama. I did get a prescription of diazapam from the dr though, as I get so stressed about her coming home and whether she will go back to hospital ok.
I wish there was more support for parents.
Just a quick post as off to bed but will read back properly tomorrow.

floramckitchen Tue 13-Aug-13 19:41:18

Hi Sij

My dd's boyfriend stopped her from taking an overdose of her AD's on saturday morning. She only managed to take 80mg so it wasn't too much of a problem but he got panicky and my dd started to have breathing problems so he ended up calling an ambulance. They wanted to take her to hospital but she wouldn't go because she says there isn't any help there. In the end the paramedic phoned her therapist and made an appointment for Saturday afternoon. As soon as they left she called the therapist back and cancelled it.

I found out about all this last night when she came home. She's been self harming again and is very very down.

I don't know what to do really - all I can think of is to try and get her to visit her therapist again but she is just giving up hope now. I'm worn out with it - no point in taking her to the gp either.

She does go on Tumblr but is not keen to do anything voluntary or make any effort of any sort. She doesn't even keep her hamster clean ! its all left to me.

Feeling a bit helpless today.

Flora, I'm so very sorry to hear this, and thank goodness your DD's boyfriend was able to prevent her from taking more pills. You must be frantic, and I really do know how it feels.

I've been reading back over your posts and wonder whether anyone has suggested that she could be suffering from PTSD - the realisation that she was raped may have hit her hard, and perhaps she could benefit from some very specific treatment to deal with this. Just a thought, and sorry if I've missed something you've posted about this.

Do you get any feedback from her therapist, or is it all kept confidential from you as she's over 18 (this is something I find quite frustrating, though luckily my DD is very communicative)? If she will talk to you about how she feels, could you explore taking her to a different therapist for a fresh start if she has lost confidence in the one she's been seeing? Does her therapist report back to your GP or to a mental health professional? Either way, I'd have thought there should be some follow-up if an emergency appointment was cancelled like that, though I know resources are so stretched that this may not happen.

Finally, do, do, do look after yourself. Your inner strength is the only thing that will get you through this, and it is being constantly depleted when you're living on a knife-edge. If you can't fit counselling in just now, at least do something for yourself every single day - coffee with a friend, a massage, even a long hot bath with a face pack. Anything that gives your mind a break from thinking exclusively about DD's problems.

Sleep as well as you can, and I really hope your DD will agree to get the help she needs.

x

floramckitchen Wed 14-Aug-13 19:20:54

Hi again
Thanks for your help Sij

My dd really likes her therapist but the therapist will not discuss anything with me. Unfortunately she does not report back to the gp either because she is not NHS, so no follow ups regarding a cancelled appointment would ever happen .

We are still waiting for NHS Psychotherapy -apparently it will take over a year for an appointment which is why I decided to go private. MH services in our area are rubbish. In a way its a shame she didn't become ill when she was younger because I think they do try a bit harder with younger kids. DD did have 8 sessions of CBT on the NHS but they just made her worse really!

I wondered about PTSD - she is on a three month waiting list for rape counselling. If she had been under 18 she would have got it straight away - its so frustrating!

I do try and keep my sense of humour and am trying to hold down a full time job. I sometimes go out with DH and we make the most of it whenever we can. Although sometimes when we come home she shows off a bit which can spoil things. I will look into counselling very soon.

I do appreciate all your advice and kind words . It helps me to know that you have been through it all and are coming out the other side.

Thank you
Flo
PS My dd will agree to any help offered. Its just that we don't really get offered any. I have to bloody fight for her to even go on a waiting list and time is being wasted. She is starting get tired of waiting and fighting and is slowly losing the will to live.

I would take some positive from the fact that your DD agrees to any help offered - try to believe that she wants to get better. Someone said to me that if my DD had really wanted to end her life she would have done it by now, and although I was really shocked and upset by that bald statement, it does make sense. Waiting lists and not knowing what is happening are the worst part of it for you both.
Sending sympathy and flowers
x

SKYTVADDICT Sun 18-Aug-13 09:51:10

Hi all

Flora - hope your DD is a bit more settled now.

Just a quick update for us. DD is on home leave for 11 days then is hoping not to have to go back at all. She isn't due another meeting re discharge until 11 September though so I am not sure what will happen after next week. We are going away for a few days to Liverpool/Blackpool and her boyfriend is coming too. We have two rooms and she will be sharing with him and DD2 (13). I am a bit more relaxed and actually did manage to sleep last night - although cocktails at a friends may have helped grin. DD1 actually babysat for us and all was well. The sertraline seems to be ok so far and she has iron tablets as well. She is eating healthily so all is looking good - although we have been here before!

fifietta Sun 18-Aug-13 18:59:36

Hello all, checking in from France where things are going from bad to worse. Dd and i are supposed to be learning French as she has missed so much at school. Lessons on the morning and free in the aftetnoon. She has refused to attend since the first lesson (where she drew all over herself including writing 'fuck you' on her fingers.) stupidly I didz consider sending her home but know that osn't realistic. Unfortunately she is now being vile, verbally abusive and threatening not to eat until I send her home or to kill herself. No Rational discussion has any effect on her and she says I have her false hope deliberately . It is so difficult to find words to say to her and I'm withdrawing a lot. I need an expert to give me a script through an earpiece!

Her behaviour has become so much more extreme over the last couple of months and I try very hard not to get drawn but am struggling and worried.

Was interested that you mentioned showing off Flo as dd does that too tho not for me.

Another moan, sorry - and badly written on an iPod.

Any suggestions gratefully received!

Fido...this thing won't let me write my name...

fifietta Sun 18-Aug-13 19:21:00

Hello all, checking in from France where things are going from bad to worse. Dd and i are supposed to be learning French as she has missed so much at school. Lessons on the morning and free in the aftetnoon. She has refused to attend since the first lesson (where she drew all over herself including writing 'fuck you' on her fingers.) stupidly I didz consider sending her home but know that osn't realistic. Unfortunately she is now being vile, verbally abusive and threatening not to eat until I send her home or to kill herself. No Rational discussion has any effect on her and she says I have her false hope deliberately . It is so difficult to find words to say to her and I'm withdrawing a lot. I need an expert to give me a script through an earpiece!

Her behaviour has become so much more extreme over the last couple of months and I try very hard not to get drawn but am struggling and worried.

Was interested that you mentioned showing off Flo as dd does that too tho not for me.

Another moan, sorry - and badly written on an iPod.

Any suggestions gratefully received!

Fido...this thing won't let me write my name...

Sky - I do hope your daughter's extended leave will go well and that your time away will be good for all of you.

Fifi - I feel so much for you, and don't know what to suggest except to validate your DD's feelings, however much that goes against the grain. It's OK to let her know you are struggling, and that you realise she is struggling too! Perhaps you could ask her if she has any realistic suggestions as to how you can both get through the next few days - make it clear you are not prepared to send her home, and that you intend to ignore any threats, but see if there is something you could do that would be enjoyable for both of you, even if just for a morning, and even if it means abandoning the rest of the French lessons.

It's frustrating that your carefully laid plans are going awry, but in the long term the French course is less important than maintaining the bond between you. Remind her of the fun she had a few weeks ago when you were away and tell her you'd love to see her enjoying herself like that again. How might she achieve that where you are now? Give her the responsibility of making the best of this trip so that you both benefit from it. If she refuses to go to the lessons, can you go on your own and let her do something different, or are you anxious about leaving her alone? I know that feeling! but perhaps if you carry on regardless it would be good for both of you?

Our very bright DD has not taken the same path as her friends - she dropped out of school before AS levels and this week has been a painful one for us as they all got their A level results. Now that I've come to terms with the fact that my DD has stepped off the hamster wheel, I believe that the most important things at this stage in life are well-being and self-esteem. As parents we can help to provide these and eventually our DCs will be strong enough to make choices for their futures.

I'll repeat my mantra here: 'You can't change DD, you can only change your reactions to her' because I still say it to myself several times a day and hope you will find it helpful too.

Bon courage!

floramckitchen Mon 19-Aug-13 20:15:34

Hi all

Things have been a bit up and down here lately. My dd had some news from the police regarding her case and it made her extremely upset and triggered off an afternoon of her re-living her assault and going over and over it in her mind. She was so bad that I had to come home from work just to make sure that she didn't start harming herself again. She seemed calmer when the storm had passed though and even went out clubbing on friday night. On Saturday night we took her to stay with her sister for a few days so I hope that its all going ok.

Sij - I know what you mean about the A level results. I am disappointed that my dd hasn't been able to go to uni when everybody elses kids seem to just sail through it!

Fifi (Fido!) - So sorry that you are struggling so much when you are supposed to be on holiday. I understand what you mean when you say that you are withdrawing from your dd. Sometimes I do that just to protect my sanity. They don't seem to care that mums have feelings too. Just keep your chin up and make the best of it until you get home. I really feel for you!

Sky - Good luck with your trip. Things seem to be going well for you and your dd now. Long may it continue!

My dd isn't due home until late on Wednesday night so at least I have a couple of peaceful days ahead to look forward to!

Hi Flora - just thought I'd let you know that I think of you and everyone else on this thread every day. I hope your week has been peaceful and your daughter is feeling calmer.

Here's to a happy long weekend smile

floramckitchen Sun 25-Aug-13 19:14:02

Thank you Sij

Its all quiet here at the moment. DD has been away since last Saturday and isn't due home until nextWednesday - I think!

She spent a few days with her sister and then went to stay with her boyfriend. My DH picked her up from her sisters which is a 2 hour drive away and she was saying that she mentally 'was in a good place' and that she knew that when she got home that it would put her 'back in the bad place'.

Maybe she just needs to grow up and leave home ??!! I will wait and see what happens on Wednesday.

ps- She's had her letter about her NHS Psychotherapy! It took 7 months rather than the 12 months that we were told. Way to go NHS!

Moxiegirl Mon 26-Aug-13 09:23:24

Hello smile
I always want to reply individually to things but on my phone you can't see the thread when you're replying and my memory is shocking!
Dd was here 2 nights this weekend, went ok apart from a blazing row I had with her father on Friday about letting her go off on her own into town to meet him there (she is sectioned and suicidal ffs and if we hadn't been going away next weekend and she is desperate to come I am 100% sure she would have gone and bought tablets-she even admitted this!).
Bittersweet this week as my best friend's son got his gcse results- brilliant as expected. Really happy for them both but sad too, as in another life dd would have been getting herssad
Dd was also sexually assaulted last year, by someone she met up (secretly) with online who was twice her age - it's about a year since this happened so she's full of extra self loathing atm and also flitting in and out of unsuitable 'relationships' made online and in hospital. It's all so sad.
Have a good bank holiday Monday everyone x

floramckitchen Tue 27-Aug-13 19:05:57

Oh Moxie

It must be a nightmare to know that even her own father doesn't understand quite how ill your dd is! Its just as well she has an understanding mum to look out for her!

Know how you feel about gcse results as I feel the same about my dd and university. Everybody elses kids seem to sail through it don't they? Its easy for us to feel like our kids will be left behind somehow. I think it probably adds to their stress tbh.

Was your dd's sexual assault reported to the police? Although its a big decision to make the police are very helpful and can refer the victim on for rape counselling etc. As she is under 18 she should get it straight away. My dd is 19 so she is on a 3 month waiting list. Or maybe try Rape Crisis? My dd always blamed herself for the fact that she had been raped and was full of self hate because she 'let him get away with it'. She hates herself a little bit less now because she has been true to herself (her words) and reported it - even though it was 2 years ago.
I think its the first step in her coming to terms with it and moving on.

Yes, its all very sad that these terrible things had to happen to our lovely daughters and to know how they are suffering is heart breaking for us but I can't imagine what it must be like for them.

Take care

Moxiegirl Tue 27-Aug-13 20:43:00

Hi Flora
Yes it was reported at the time and he was arrested, unfortunately due to dd's unreliable evidence (she initially lied to police and said she'd been grabbed by a stranger) and the fact she'd said she was 18 on the dating site - she told him she was 15 but no evidence of this - cps decided she was too vulnerable and they would be unlikely to get a prosecution. She had also been registered on lots of sites and been talking to lots of men - she would have been torn apart in court.
Tbh I'm relieved it didn't get to court sad she would never have managed a cross examination. The man had a girlfriend and a child- we have to console ourselves with the fact his life would have been changed for the worse, hopefully.
Her therapist in hospital is addressing it slowly with her but she becomes so distressed when she talks about it.
She is so desperate for any attention that she is just so vulnerable.
Her Dad is mentally ill and physically disabled so although I get cross with him, he can't help a lot of it but he is the cause I think, genetically and emotionally of her problems.
CPA tomorrow at the hospital.

Moxiegirl Tue 27-Aug-13 20:45:12

It's good that your dd felt able to report and hope she can move on- he police were very good with us too, and understanding.

fifietta Fri 30-Aug-13 09:39:26

Hello All,

God we go through a lot with our daughters don't we? We just have to keep believing that they will make progress towards recovery.

sij thanks so much for your kind and helpful words. I think DD had decided she was going to dig her heels in no matter what. She did go out in the evenings with the other teenagers though, so had some fun. And I did go to classes on my own whilst she stayed in our room and was on the internet for up to 17 hours a day!

We came home from France early, together. I had some very helpful talks with a lovely, wise woman there who reminded me that right now what was important was my relationship with DD. I talked to DD and, amongst other things, said that in future I would consult her more about trips. She paid for us to come home so there were tangible consequences for her. And guess what, the very next day she was meeting and making up with the boyfriend she'd spilt up with a few weeks ago!

Our relationship is at an all time low. She is saying she doesn't want to continue with DBT and I am desperate for her to continue as she is all over the place and falling out with friends/being left out on a daily basis at the moment. She feels that I want to 'control' her (this is particularly about her constant inappropriate use of phone and internet to the exclusion of anything else) and says she can't tell me anything and doesn't want to live me anymore. I cannot make the most innocuous/normal parental request without her opposing me. And at the same time I feel so desperately sorry for her and keep reassuring her that I love her unconditionally. She feels that we are not a family.

I relate so much to your painful feeling about exams, uni etc, Flo and Moxie as DD has GCSEs this year and unless a miracle happens and she realises how key to her options in the future these are, she will fail, as she she won't be encouraged by me or teachers - she takes against any teachers who put any pressure on her.

Feeling rather sorry for myself at the moment, but know we're all going through it. DD stayed at a friend's last night, hence I can post at my leisure!

flowers

Fifi

Moxiegirl Fri 30-Aug-13 13:27:32

Fifi thanks sorry you are feeling low.
We have to just keep hoping I suppose. We are off to center parcs. Luckily the dr has allowed us a supply of lorazepam for when she is very agitated, I did say I might be taking them myself by Monday!

fifietta Fri 30-Aug-13 14:54:01

Perhaps you should take some as a precautionary measure Moxie wink and pass some on to me...

fifietta Fri 30-Aug-13 19:56:55

Really hope Center Parcs goes well and you have a peaceful time x

Fifi - I'm glad there were some positives to report from your time in France, especially the wise woman you could connect with. Although it may feel as though your relationship is at an all-time low, remember that your DD only lashes out at you because it's safe to do so - she knows you love her unconditionally. That is totally normal for teenagers, and that's why our situation is so complicated - if they weren't going through life with this extra burden of a mental health issue, we would be just as infuriated but able to express ourselves without fear of reprisals. That's something I'm learning to do now, for my own sake but also to hand back some responsibility to my DD. It's more of the 'detach' advice, really, and I am seeing changes in her as I change the way I behave around her.

So as much as I hated DD being on her laptop all day and most of the night, it didn't make any difference to her whether I ranted about it or ignored it - she carried on. I think it helped that I showed interest in what she was doing on the laptop (mostly Tumblr, about which I'd only heard scary things), perhaps because it brought it out into the real world so the people she was communicating with were more real when I showed interest in them? Tumblr didn't do her any harm, despite my paranoia fears, and this week she told me that she'd read back over some of her posts from this time last year and was amazed to see how she had changed since then.

How did it feel for you to get on and do the French lessons without your DD? Is there something you could do at home which might help you to feel that same sense of being your own person? I really believe that helping yourself is all you can do to help your DD right now. Try not to worry about her education, or even the DBT course. One thing that has amazed me in this process is discovering how many young people do their exams at different ages and stages. It's not a race, and there are plenty of options for education later on. Health and happiness for you both must be the priority for now, so that everything else can fall into place.

Hope you will have a peaceful weekend xx

PS I've said it before, but DO think about getting some counselling for yourself. The stronger you are, the better your DD will get. It's not realistic to expect yourself to deal with all this stuff without a bit of impartial yet experienced guidance!

fifietta Sun 01-Sep-13 12:17:50

Sij - Thanks again. You talk a lot of sense and I do know that a lot of her anger is directed at me because I'm there. What I find hard on a day to day minute to minute basis is thinking what to do or say as each new issue arises. Do you mean that you are now expressing yourself anyway?

Today, for instance, aside from the homework issue, we are supposed to be meeting friends with much younger children to see a dance show. This was booked several weeks ago and DD was consulted and happily agreed to go (we've seen other shows by this dance company and they're fab). However she is now moaning that she 'hates' kids, hates people generally. All complicated by other events of the morning: neighbour thinking DD had let herself into their house (she didn't) and boyfriend staying over last night with her creeping into his bed sometime in the early hours. Right now she is still in bed on her iphone having grudgingly agreed to go to the show, tho not go out to lunch beforehand. Oh I'm sorry I am rambling so much. It will be touch and go whether she goes or not. Mental health burden aside, she has become SO powerful.

I'm already on ADs but have made an appointment to see the GP next week and will ask about counselling. I do attend the parents' group within the DBT programme but this is more to support the skills the young people are learning and if DD stops attending I'll have to too.

Back to work on Tuesday. At least then we won't be stuck at home together! xx

Moxiegirl Sun 01-Sep-13 18:50:47

At the end of my tether, am never ever taking her on holiday again !
It's not fair on the others, the whole fucking world has to revolve around her I can't cope anymore

floramckitchen Sun 01-Sep-13 18:54:56

Hi all

Its so hard living with someone who has such a controlling illness because it ends up controlling everyone in the house. Its because its so scary and the confrontations can be so nasty that in the end you are constantly living in fear of the next drama.

I am looking into counselling for myself and DH's doctor has advised him to spend less time at home and more time at the Gym! I've been getting lots of palpitations recently too which is starting to worry me. Probably stress but I will get it checked out.

DD isn't too good either as her closest friends are going back to uni soon and its highlighting the fact that she is stuck at home doing nothing and going nowhere (her words) with nobody to turn to. Her therapist has suggested voluntary work to give her some purpose but dd can't see how this would help and thinks that the therapist is giving up on her.

The GP has increased the dosage of her AD so maybe that will help ??

She is still cutting her arms and it looks very bad now. I know the cuts will scar her for life so I need to just accept it. Trouble is every time I see them I feel physically sick. It hurts me so much.

Feeling a bit sorry for myself tbh and I can feel that I'm distancing myself from the constant moaning. I am switching off to it really. I just seem to keep repeating the phrase ' I can understand how upsetting that must be' like a parrot and not really connecting to the problems.

Fifi - I'm feeling your pain. You can't reason with them can you? I think that just because our dd's are mentally ill it doesn't mean they can walk all over us and spoil every nice thing we try and do for ourselves. Maybe its best to just carry on without them? although that probably just means the drama is stored up for when you get home. So, either way you day is spoilt.

Sorry I am being negative today. Its all getting me down a bit.

Hopefully I will be back to my more positive self in a day or two.

SKYTVADDICT Sun 01-Sep-13 22:20:26

I lost this thread off my "threads I am on". Am sorry to read all is not well with you all - we seem to be on the up for now - long may it last. The following is DDs fb status from earlier tonight - a bit "open" for me but thats how they live isn't it?

"Aware I've already made a status about this but.. I need to get this out, my Facebook and all.. If you had asked me 2 months ago whether I would be starting college tomorrow I would have laughed in your face and told you.. I won't make it til September. But.. Here I am.. I'm really doing it. I'm in such a better place than I was then.. I never never never thought that I would have come out the other side of all that crap, but I have, I'm nearly through it.. I have some awesome nurses on the unit, my incredible family and my amazing boyfriend to thank for that. This was just one (5 year long) chapter of my life, now I'm turning the page and starting a new, healthier, more positive chapter. — feeling blessed."

Sounds good doesn't it? I am hoping so much that she likes college and it all doesn't come crashing down - I think that is because I am still not in a good place and feeling depressed about the shit summer we have just had! I must try harder to be - feeling happy!!

Moxiegirl Sun 01-Sep-13 23:30:21

Sounds like we are feeling it.
Our last night away ended up me calling 999 (she tried to kill herself) and being transported by police to hospital, we are all here til 2.30 when secure transport will take her back to her psych unit and the police will take me back to centre parcs.
I'm knackered! She is calm now and doing a crossword!
the 2 policeman are very hot

Moxiegirl Sun 01-Sep-13 23:30:56

I hope so sky x

Moxiegirl Sun 01-Sep-13 23:33:40

Flora I am so desensitised to dd that it scares me. When someone tells you constantly they want to die, it just becomes normal and has little impact. I still say the things I need to say but my emotions are almost numb. Just tired tbh.

Reading today's posts from everyone has taken me straight back to where I was this time last year. There is a common theme of everything being out of balance - DD dominating everyone's life, changing the way the rest of the family behaves, and I also recognise the desperate feeling of wanting to make it all better, but having no idea how to do that.

Just remember that you are all being the best mothers you are able to be, doing the best you can do. We are only human!

Fifi - yes, I have learnt that my feelings are MY responsibility, not my DD's, and it is fine to express them to her when I need to let off steam. It hasn't made things between us any worse! Bottling up your feelings will be worse for you in the long run, and that will have a knock-on effect for your DD too. It has taken me a whole year to get to this point, so I urge you to be confident about being yourself at all times. It's good that you can go to a parents' group, but I imagine that this is all about how to support your DD when in fact it is YOU who needs the support, so I really hope your GP can sort you out with some counselling to help you through this very tough time.

Flora - the thing that struck me from your post is the hurt you are feeling about your DD's self-harm. I felt exactly the same way, but now recognise that it was not intended to be hurtful to me, and when I reacted that way it made my DD feel even worse about herself. It's almost impossible not to react, and it would not be unreasonable to ask her to keep them covered so you don't have to see the scars (I assume you have supplied her with TCP, plasters etc? if not, this is really important and puts the responsibility right back with her). I think it becomes a really bad habit, a bit like nail-biting, and my DD still occasionally cuts her arm, but is annoyed with herself when she does, and we talk about what has triggered it. Would that be possible for you? And if there are regular triggers, maybe work together to find ways to avoid them or other strategies to cope with them? It's so hard to have to be understanding of what they are going through when they appear to be oblivious to our suffering! And as I've said before, although it feels wrong to carry on with your life instead of putting them at the centre of everything, that might be the only way to protect yourself from collapsing under the strain of it all.

Moxie - sad - hope you can do something nice for yourself and the rest of the family to get over the challenging time you had when you were away.

Sky - your anxiety that things might all come crashing down despite your DD's positive Facebook status rings many bells with me. Just hold on to her words and her gratitude for her incredible family - that's YOU! Allow yourself to believe that this is the beginning of a new phase - there will be more ups and downs, but hopefully your DD will continue to feel as positive as she sounds.

Long post, sorry - thinking of you all xx

fifietta Mon 02-Sep-13 10:20:58

I was going to post again last night after reading all of this. Maybe there's something about the end of summer that triggers anxiety, especially with the changes that brings (school, uni etc) for most young people and the awareness that some of our DDs are not a part of that because of their MH.

SKY, such a positive status from your DD and I really hope that that will be sustained. I completely relate to your concern about how 'open' it is. I am perpetually boggled by the extremely personal stuff my DD puts out to the whole world. I've talked to her about it for years, to no effect. Unfortunately they view the internet as a small world! Don't be hard on yourself, it is exhausting riding the ups and downs and I'm not surprised you are feeling depressed. I know you have four children and work full-time, but could you seek some counselling support?

Moxie, Poor, poor you. I know that when my DD attempted suicide (sort of - more a cry to be heard) I also felt calm/numb...perhaps because I don't really believe she wants to die. I just feel desperate that living her life is so troubling for her.

Flo, I feel your pain, hope that doesn't sound flippant (oops. just realised that's exactly what you said to me!!), and am so sorry you are feeling so down. You have always been very positive and that has been inspirational(!) for me. Sij talks a lot of sense - the idea of trying to concentrate on yourself, hard as that is. We can't block out the constant presence of our DDs in our homes and thoughts, though perhaps we can practise getting away and forgetting for a while! My DD also has great raised scars on her arms now (they look like welts) and they will never go. It is sad. I'm thinking of you.

Sij, thanks again, I am determined to not react so much to DDs provocations. So much of her behaviour is toddlerish and I need keep telling myself that. Part of her control is picking me up on things I say when I do express my feelings: 'it's all about YOU' etc. I'm trying to take some inspiration from 'non-violent resistence', a programme I've read a bit about and which friends are using with their adopted son.

Lots of love to all of you xx

floramckitchen Tue 03-Sep-13 21:32:14

Thank you all for your supportive words! I really appreciate the understanding and the useful advice.

There has been an odd turn of events. DD has told me she wants to go back to college with a view to going to university this time next year! Its clear that its given her a boost and she is busy applying to start at the end of this month.

Talk about a rollercoaster of emotion!!!! It was lovely to see her so enthusiastic about something after all this time. Fingers crossed that it all works out.

fifietta Wed 04-Sep-13 07:24:44

That sounds brilliant...so glad something more positive is happening for you!
x

Moxiegirl Wed 04-Sep-13 08:08:50

Great news Flora! smile

Fantastic news, Flora - I'm so pleased for you and your DD that she has seen a way forward. The path from here may not be completely smooth, but remember that it's the path that she has chosen. You will be there for her if needed, but the hard thing now, if my experience is anything to go by, is to stop trying to do it all for her. It goes against the grain for us as mothers, and especially when our DDs have extra issues to consider, but the greatest gift you can give her now is your belief in her. The more you are sure that she can and will do it, the better chance she has of achieving her dream. I hope that the fresh start that September represents can bring some positive change for you and the rest of your family too, and that the ups and downs of the rollercoaster will gradually start to be less dramatic. Keep us posted!
xx

SKYTVADDICT Wed 04-Sep-13 21:49:33

That's great news flora. Something to look forward to and plan for.

All been good so far this week but we are in the middle of a mini crisis right now in that dd has realised she has to get changed in front of others for the kitchen. We have talked until we are blue in the face about how everyone will be in a rush and no one will be looking at her but its no good! Have txtd the tutor (dh's neice) to see if anything can be done. Sigh. Dd sees it as a huge problem and the voices won't let her do it.

tonightsthekindofnight Thu 05-Sep-13 00:14:59

Hi there. I have just read through all the posts and the thread really struck a chord with me, I feel compelled to respond but please tell me to piss off if you think I am intruding!!

I was diagnosed with BPD 10 years ago aged 20, after a really turbulent time. My parents, although wonderful in many ways, were not able to deal with it. My mum could never bring herself to say the words self harm/suicide/mental illness/bpd etc etc never mind offer any emotional support. When I was sectioned in hospital she would lie to my siblings/grandparents/bosses about my whereabouts, I felt like she was so ashamed of me. It saddens me that because of this we have lost any closeness and although on a superficial level our relationship is fine I find it difficult to understand how I feel towards her now. I would love to see it from her perspective which is why I think this thread has really hit me. Your daughters are wonderfully lucky to have such amazing strong mums.

BPD is clearly awful and destructive for the families of sufferers, maybe adding to the distress is the fact that it is a huge unknown to most people, no one can empathize with what you are going through when its so unfamiliar. I suppose this is what drives me to try and share my experience. If people are a little more familiar, it becomes less isolating.

At 18 I had 4 grade A A levels and a place to study medicine, an international sports career, grade 8 in piano and had just had a summer in Spain with 12 friends and I was 5'10 and a size 10. An outsider might think I had everything going for me. Secretly inside I hated myself and wanted to die and it hit me then that I had always felt like that. Cue total self destruction.

Since then I have spent months and months in hospital, made serious attempts on my life, taken drugs, starved myself, spent nights in police cells, overdosed, experienced psychosis, engaged in every dangerous behavior imaginable, fucked up my career and my life has taken a vary different path the one my parents had mapped out for me. I am ashamed of how I have behaved and I am sorry to the friends and family I have hurt and yet reading your posts I have such empathy for your daughters. It is impossible to verbalize what that list of 7 god awful diagnostic criteria actually feels like to live with. The mood changes and the overwhelming emotions are so cruel, the pain unbearable. At times feel like it has robbed me of my life, it has brought endless despair and taken my identity and yet here I am at 30 getting better.....

I wouldn't have believed it but the chaos does subside, the illness gets easier to cope with. It has taken a long time for me to believe this but I am glad I am alive and proud to now be a mum myself. I still have very regular contact with mh professionals (sometimes daily) and am still in therapy yet I now have a degree, a full time job, hobbies, a loving husband, a lovely home and two fabulous, amazing, beautiful children. I dont think my bpd will ever go away but I am getting better at living with it. There is always hope.

I know this has been a very self indulgent post but I feel this illness has dominated me for so long I would love to be able to help other sufferers in some way. I wish my mum had helped me deal with it at 18 before it swallowed me up. If I can help answer any questions it would mean a great deal to me.

igotaway Thu 05-Sep-13 09:48:03

Hi Everyone, may I join in?

I have a son aged 23, and @ tonights, he is at where you were and more

We have seen numerous physcs, he takes dufloxetine and quepitine (sorry spelling!!) but his brain is in chaos. He is a perfectly intelligent boy. One doctor called him a high functioning depressive. He has a job and is very good at it. He hides behind a mask of composure - inside his head, he lives in, for want of a better word, madness, he tells me he is insane and none of the doctors can see it.
His personal self harming kit is a Stanley knife or burning with a blow torch - he is in the building trade so these items are at hand.

Like all the other posters I have done everything I possibly can, but this illness is a bugger and now I am stuck. I simply don't know what to do. Except wait................

So, from the other side, what did you want your mother to do for you? what didn't she do that you thought might have helped.

What am I NOT doing for him? When I ask this question directly to him, he says 'never underestimate your presence or support'
But its not enough is it?

What was going through your head when you were at your lowest?
How did you get back up again?
Sorry for the ramble, but I am at my wits end, I hope you get where I'm coming from

Tonight - your post is really lovely, and not at all self-indulgent. Thank you for giving me such hope for my daughter. I'm sure the others here will appreciate it just as much as I do. It is so hard to understand the self-hatred which our daughters feel, and as you say of yourself at that stage, an outsider would think that they have everything going for them, which can make us, as parents, feel quite hurt and angry towards them for being what might seem ungrateful. Once we accept that this is not them, it is the illness showing through, it is easier to deal with.

You should be especially proud of yourself for overcoming so much to achieve the life you live today.

Igotaway - it sounds as though you are really going through a tough time, and you shouldn't beat yourself up for not doing enough. You are being the best mother you can be to your son. I hope you have some way to take care of yourself too - is there a support group available to you through your son's psychiatric team? Keep posting here - it's hugely comforting to know that others are going through similar challenges, even if we don't have any answers.

Hope the weekend will be a calm and restful one for all.
x

floramckitchen Fri 06-Sep-13 21:07:56

Hi everybody

Its been an up and down couple of days but dd seems to gave her goal in mind now which is giving her some focus. She had a little drama last night about all the old issues but seems to have bounced back today.

Thanks for all your good wishes!

Tonight - I am glad you have joined our thread - your story is truly an inspiration. Maybe you can advise me...... I have never been sure what my dd uses to self harm with but a couple of nights ago she asked me to look for a lip gloss that she had mislaid and I found a Stanley knife in one of her bags. She doesn't know I found it. What do I do? ignore or say something?

Igot - I'm sorry you're going through such a bad time with your son. It makes you feel so desperate doesn't it? I thought it was lovely that he said ' never underestimate your presence and support' because that's all you can really do and its seems as if he appreciates it.

Sky - did you manage to solve the getting changed in the kitchen issue?

Stay strong everyone!

fifietta Fri 06-Sep-13 21:09:31

I'm stressed. Having an awful time with DD who is like a stranger. In the past 2 or 3 weeks she has become abusive, foul mouthed. At 7.30pm this evening she said she was leaving to meet a friend, not at their house but in some road or other...I said she needs to back by 9.30pm (I shouldn't have let her go at all, but did - she would probably have gone anyway). She asked me for money and when I said that the mum who is a 'f***ing b***h' isn't the one who gives money she responded by saying she hates me and is not coming home. She seems to want to have a mum who is a monster and is casting me in that role, much of it stemming from me switching off the internet/asking her to relinquish her phone at 11pm. The rest of the time I do nearly everything for her and speak sweetly to her.

Her phone is now off. I don't know where she is. I am filled with anxiety and dread all the time, hate coming home and honestly feel that my heart is going to give out.

tonightsthekindofnight Fri 06-Sep-13 21:13:01

igotaway I am so sorry to read what a distressing time you and your son are going through, I can only imagine what pain you are enduring at the moment. I have attempted to write this reply to you a few times but I am finding it really hard.

Firstly, although people with bpd often have similar outward behaviors, everyone experiences it differently so my responces to your questions may have little relevance to how your son feels. I feel very wary of giving advise as such, as other sufferers I have met in hospital have needed different help to me.

"what did you want your mother to do for you? what didn't she do that you thought might have helped?"

I guess I wanted my mum to acknowledge my illness as an illness. I wanted her to read about it and talk to me about it from an informed point of view. I wanted her to acknowledge just how difficult it was for me even if she couldn't really understand. They were always so angry with my behaviors which just compounded my feelings of guilt and shame. They never tried to understand why I behaved the way I did or have any sympathy/empathy. I felt huge pressure from them even when they were trying to help me into uni/work etc as they thought it would help, their time would have been invested in helping me recover. I spent most of my days desperately wanting to die and they would go on and on about job applications! They underestimated how it consumed me as I appeared to be 'coping' a lot of the time. Even if it doesn't seem like it, emotional difficulties can be there all the time.

I would have loved for their help navigating the nhs, they never spoke to my doctors/cpn etc so it took a long time for me to get the therapy I needed. I would have loved to be able to discuss the practical things I had learnt in therapy with them and practice changing my behavior. A lot of research suggests DBT is the most succesful therapy for BPD. This involves practical approaches to dealing with overwhelming emotions and i think it would have been helpful to be able to talk about these outside therapy. The more time I am able to spend in the present i.e. not listening to my internal voice worrying about past/future, the more I am well. My parents could have helped with this if they understood, by prioritizing providing opportunities to do this. Just taking me out to the cinema/ going for a walk/ cooking with me/ taking me shopping could break the cycle of torment in my head. When unwell it is difficult to motivate yourself to do this even if you know it works.

I wish they could be open and frank with me about how I felt, and about their feelings. They tried to hide everything difficult as they didnt want to 'upset me.' I didnt go to my grandpa's funeral as they didnt think it was a good idea. This compounded the isolation I felt and reiterated that I was different to everyone else.

Mostly I needed constant reassurance that I was loved and wanted and they weren't going anywhere.

I know this is long and waffly but it is extremely hard to articulate. When I am ill now my CPN always asks what can she do, how can she help. The most frustrating thing is that in crisis I have no idea. It often feels like nothing/no-one can help. My guess would be that your son doesnt know how he can get better or how you can help. There is a book called Overcoming BPD, A Family Guide for Healing and Change (Valerie Parr) which is very good. I could send my copy to you if you think it may be something you would benefit from reading?

"What was going through your head when you were at your lowest?
How did you get back up again?"

Again it is really hard to articulate. At my worst my thoughts are racing and relentless, I can not switch off from them. I relive every failing and a torrent of self abuse goes round and round my head. Im worthless, pathetic, a failure, fat, ugly, lonely, hated and not made for this world. I conclude that I am better off dead, my suicide would be a good thing for those that know me. Then thoughts of suicide whirl round my head, I consider different methods. These though patterns can last hours/days/weeks and there is no escape. It is exhausting yet I dont sleep. Nothing seems worthwhile, life seems meaningless and pointless. I feel like I have no real connection to anyone else. I question my identity, even my sexuality. The thoughts keep coming thick and fast. I close my eyes and beg that I dont have to wake up as me ever again. I deeply hate every atom of my being. It feels so intense it does swallow me and I cant attend to any other thought.

The emotions when at my worst are so overwhelming, I am not surprised now that I have acted into them so many times as many sufferers do. Self harm, suicidal behavior makes sense as it gives relief from the pain even for a short time.

I have come back from this place so many times as a tiny part of me wanted to live, just not like that. I have come to learn that the most horrific times do pass. I know it is of little use when you are in the thick of it but with therapy and time you begin to trust that you can endure the worst and there is a future at the other side. There is always hope.

tonightsthekindofnight Fri 06-Sep-13 21:15:32

Sorry that was so epic. Took so long to compose I have missed three posts oops! Will come back later.

Moxiegirl Fri 06-Sep-13 21:40:50

Tonight's- thank you for your posts, you are inspiring and very helpful!
Welcome igotaway smile
Fifi I'm sorry you are feeling like this, it's all too much isn't it.
My dd is in high dependency in her psych unit on and off as her self harm ing has severely deteriorated - I'm thinking long term hospital if things don't improve. Off to see her tomorrow- it's very difficult when her little sisters ask why her arms are all cut sad

tonightsthekindofnight Fri 06-Sep-13 22:22:26

Thank you for your kind words. Im sorry that it is through such an awful diagnosis that we have ccommon ground.

flora I would imagine that speaking to her may put her on the spot. She may feel ashamed/embarrassed/guilty and that her personal space has been invaded. For me that would be very overwhelming. I think you need to consider what you are hoping to get from having the conversation, what benefits might there be. I guess your hope is that eventually she could stop cutting but I cant envisage how mentioning the knife will help that aim. Removing sharps seems sensible but from experience, if you need to cut you will find a way. If the knife is dirty/rusty I would maybe consider a conversation about a safer way to cut. I would make sure your daughter has access to what she needs to keep wounds clean etc.

moxie
Im sorry to hear your daughter is struggling so badly. What is the hospital like? Does she receive much in the way of occupational therapy/talking therapy? What makes you think a long term admission is inevitable/helpful?

fifietta Fri 06-Sep-13 22:32:47

DD is back.

Tonights I read your post about your parents and it really touched me. I have felt angry with DD. Thank you for what you have written.

More later.Feeling a bit exhausted!

CairngormsClydesdale Sat 07-Sep-13 05:37:15

Just wanted to check in as another survivor who is cured - as I no longer fulfill 5 of the 9 criteria and have been free from this diagnosis for 5 years now.

Although I'm not a size 10 international sports woman! wink

I do however have a husband, 2 beautiful children and internal peace which I once thought would never be possible for me.

I had extensive Schema Therapy which cost a bomb, thank god for private insurance as it ran in to the tens of thousands. I also had a dazzling array of anti-psychotics and AD's but was free of meds for over 7 years. I've just gone back on AD's 2 weeks ago but I think that's due to stress I currently have due to moving house rather than any underlying problem!

To the lady whose daughter is currently all systems go about going back to university - I don't want to piss on your parade, but please understand that she might change her mind another 20 times over the next few years. Impulsive acts are what we do!

I do wish you all the very best - if it's any consolation the people most likely to be cured of BPD are "middle-class white girls"- which is a bit shit, but that's just the way it is.

All your children sound very "high functioning" and this is very encouraging as too many BPD women fall between the cracks and end up with quite a "different set of life circumstances".

Moxiegirl Sat 07-Sep-13 10:27:05

Hi Cairngorms good to hear you are 'at peace' because isn't that the most important thing? That's dd's main thing, such a troubled soul and always searching for something or someone that might give her happiness.
Fifi glad she is home, not surprised you are exhausted. I come on here want to answer lots to everyone then I lose the plot and forget what I'm saying!
Tonight's- I think because she is so fixated in wanting to die and it just doesn't ever seem to let up. She is in an adolescent unit and does have therapy, lots of intensive nursing etc but talking therapy has never helped much (too early to say with the dbt) her asd makes her very literal and she always ends up cross with therapists who just do talking!
She will be going to a placement of some sort, it just depends on whether it's hospital or a res school. Cambian came to assess her for one of their res schools but she was too unwell to talk to them.
The combination of asd/bpd just seems to floor her, she can't cope with more than a day or so in the real world now- already dreading Christmas! Last year we had to call 999 on Boxing Day as she went psychotic and delusional and it was very scary for her. And us. All the professionals have said she needs 24 hour care in a therapeutic setting.
Off to see her today we are having a picnic in the hospital garden so hoping the rain stays away smile

tonightsthekindofnight Sat 07-Sep-13 11:46:59

Moxie, Im so sorry she is so unwell, it must be heartbreaking for you and all of your family. Im sorry too, my questions seem very insesitive now. The reason I asked though wad I had a long admission at 19, maybe 6 months but I was in an acute adult ward. My parents thought it best because I too was relentless in my efforts to die. They were terrified so thought it best. In retrospect it was the worst place for me. There was no therapy, it was just a holding pen and I got worse not better. I was exposed to a lot and my damaging coping strategies ramped up a notch. It seems though that your daughter is getting much more helpful and appropriate care. I do some work for the trust now as a service user and i always express my concern that adult psych wards are no help for young bpd sufferers who get stuck there.

I know several girls who have gone into therapeutic communities and it has changed their lives. However desperate it may seem, there is a part of your daughter thay wants to live and therefore there is hope.
The thing you said about searching is so accurate, I really pray ypur daughter is able to find that something to give her some peace.
Its sunny here right now so hoping you enjoy your picnic.

Moxiegirl Sat 07-Sep-13 15:21:45

Weather held out and we are on our way back now as the little ones tend to get a bit manic after a few hours there, dd always suggests we leave them there with her! She seemed reasonably calm today and we had a nice time.
Your question tonight's was fine and I totally understand as I have my worries too, her self harming got much worse after going into a psych ward but at one point it was so bad but she wasn't sectionable- ss had to apply for a court order for a secure unit. She had taken 3x od's in 2 weeks and this was at a res school! She is now on her second long term stay (section 3)but luckily children and adolescents at least fare a bit better in that they aren't left to stagnate as much- my xh was admitted several times to an adult ward and they did nothing for him.
Dd is very responsive to animals and I'm hoping she's well enough eventually to go to a therapeutic community with a farm- the res school she was at before the od's worked well for a while, she had jobs on the farm and she loved it. Unfortunately the care as a whole was not robust enough there.

floramckitchen Sat 07-Sep-13 17:37:30

Hi all

I am reserving judgement about dd's college\uni enthusiasm. It all seems a bit unreal. It's how I would imagine a bipolar high would be.

I wont mention the Stanley knife to her. I never really mention the SH even if I do notice it ALL the time!

She has gone to stay over with her sister tonight so at least I can do my own thing - its a shame that she has to be out of the house for me to feel like I can watch tv or even have a conversation with dh. I'm off duty tonight!

behib Sat 07-Sep-13 19:02:59

Hi everyone- I haven't read through the whole thread and hope it's ok to do this- my sister has bpd and I care for her and have been for about 2 years now.

Moxiegirl Sat 07-Sep-13 19:36:48

Hi behib!
Have a good evening Flora x

floramckitchen Sat 07-Sep-13 20:19:27

thanks moxie

I'm watching x factor ! highlight of the day.

Hi behib - welcome to the thread ! How have you found caring for your sister. Two years is a long time - has she had any therapy? if so has it helped her or you?

You will find lots of support and helpful advice from all the posters on here.
Take care all x

lilypad21 Sat 07-Sep-13 23:53:59

Hi smile sorry it's behib I have name changed to my old name.
Yeah it is difficult she is my older sister and she has had some therapy but nothing seems to touch it iyswim.
It is very difficult at the moment.
Xx

floramckitchen Sun 08-Sep-13 19:36:36

hi lily

Sorry to hear that you are going through a difficult patch with your sister. I know it can feel like a thankless task at times when you're trying your best and your dd/dsis just seems to be getting worse.
Sometimes therapy doesn't seem the right thing for a bpd sufferer because it seems like if it doesn't work then the patient thinks she has 'failed' again! and then it becomes another thing for them to beat themselves up about,

Just hang on in there - you are doing a brilliant job in caring for your sister.

Flo x

lilypad21 Sun 08-Sep-13 20:58:49

Hi flo smile yeah it is difficult, she was really suicidal last night it was very hard to deal with.
It's hard to know how to go about helping; I feel useless and a bit too young or unexperienced but I guess you can never be ready for something like this.
Thank you for your reply xxx

floramckitchen Sun 08-Sep-13 22:25:10

Hi lily
Apologies if you know all this.....

If your sister is suicidal you can take her to a&e at your local hospital and get her the help she needs. You shouldn't try and face it on your own. What about your sisters gp? can you get her an emergency appointment tomorrow? I do feel for you - its hard enough for me at 46!

Take care
Flo

lilypad21 Sun 08-Sep-13 22:44:31

Hi flo
My sister is scared to go to a and e when she is feeling suicidal as she has a son and thinks he will be taken off her.
Also yesterday when she was feeling suicidal she wouldn't let me come in (she has a security gate that I didn't have the fob for)
It is very difficult isn't it.
xxx

igotaway Mon 09-Sep-13 09:10:22

Hi ladies,
Back again
Special thanks to tonightsthekindofnight - and an apology. Your post of your description of your feelings is exactly the same as DS. I sincerely hope by writing it all down hasn't caused any wounds to open and cause you distress, but yes yes to all of it.

I have taken in all that you said about your parents and I have done all that I can I think. I was the one who instigated treatment for him and I do do all the things you wanted for yourself. We discuss for hours his feelings, I take him everywhere with me, even Tesco's!!, because he wants to come with me, if I just 'pop-out' he will come with me. So yes we do all that kind of stuff.

What I can't get to grip with is is when he is completely down, I can't get through to him - when he stares into space and the tears are rolling. This is the part that is heart breaking.

If you read some of my other posts, you will read about his self medication, which I am glad to say he has stopped, but by stopping he is in 'eternal hell'. His type of self medication numbed the chaos for a while. Where is ad's don't do a thing.

We will have to keep plodding on now until something breaks. He doesn't want anymore treatment as all hope has been exhausted for him he says. He DID have hope, but 'they' let him down. There is only me left.

I will try and get a copy of the book you suggested, many many thanks for your input and once again I hope you were not upset by my questions.

Moxiegirl Tue 10-Sep-13 17:15:18

A dramatic weekend with dd getting put into handcuffs- staff had taken her to the emergency dentist and she wouldn't go back to the unit, walking in front of cars so they called policeconfused
However, a possible place that actually looks pretty good has been found - a therapeutic community for 13-21 year old females who self harm and have risky behaviours etc. they are assessing her tomorrow!

fifietta Tue 10-Sep-13 19:52:39

Oh Moxie, I'm so sorry, feel for you and hope that if she gets this placement it may be something more positive for her and you.

xx

SKYTVADDICT Wed 11-Sep-13 16:32:15

Hello to everyone new and sorry I haven't been around for a while. I have tried to catch up on everyone's news and am so sorry Moxie that it came to the police.

All seems calm here at the moment - today she had been discharged from the Unit and handed over the adult MHT with an adult CPN. This is due to the fact that she didn't like the last CAMHS lady and CAHMS have said that as she is 18 next April she may as well go to the adult team now. I have met the CPN today, DD didn't come as she was at college, and she seems nice. DD will meet her tomorrow.

As far as College is going all is well and she managed to get changed in the changing room. She has visited Butlins as a large group and seems to have made lots of friends. Not from very close sadly but still friends. She is even talking about having an 18th birthday party.

I am still on tenter hooks watching her every mood - I wonder when that will stop grin.

I will keep popping on here now and then to see how you all are and am still not convicned all will coming crashing down round our ears and we will be back!

floramckitchen Wed 11-Sep-13 19:11:37

Hi all

Lily - How is your sister doing? Did you manage to get her to the gp or a&e?

Moxie - any news about your dd's new placement?

DD got a letter from the psychiatrist saying that he has referred her for DBT!!! Not sure when it starts but at least I know she is finally going to get some relevant help. Fingers crossed that she engages with it !

lilypad21 Wed 11-Sep-13 19:25:01

Hi Flora,
My sister tried to commit suicide yesterday.
She is currently in intensive care.
Thank you for checking. Please keep her in your thoughts.
xx

Moxiegirl Wed 11-Sep-13 19:28:00

Sky that all seems positive but I understand the tenterhooks thing, whenever xh seemed fine I was watching closely for signs! Hopefully things are now on the up for you both in general.
Flora that's great news! Hopefully it will help her.
Dd had her assessment today and is back out of the high dependency bit. I haven't managed to get through to her yet on her phone but her lead nurse said it went well and they will know the outcome Monday.
Hope everyone else is having a nice non eventful time of things !
Lily how is your sister and igotaway hope you and ds are ok.

lilypad21 Wed 11-Sep-13 19:57:45

I meant to say- flo that's really good news about your dd. I hope she can really get some proper help now.
Moxie- she is in a critical state but is currently stable xx x

floramckitchen Wed 11-Sep-13 19:58:17

Oh Lily!

I am so sorry hear that- I know that intensive care is a stressful and scary place to be. Whether your a patient or a relative.
Have you got any real life support?
I will certainly keep your sister in my thoughts and will be thinking of you too.

Take care of yourself
Flora x

lilypad21 Wed 11-Sep-13 20:02:32

I'm glad she's there (although not under these circumstances iyswim) because hopefully she will now get whatever it is that will help her.
I'm caring for my parents so not really any real life support around. But I'm ok. It's so nice to be able to come on here and just read and know that people understand and I'm not alone xxx

floramckitchen Wed 11-Sep-13 20:12:44

Yes, I understand how you feel. It will force a situation where her problems will have to be addressed and taken seriously.
I think all the ladies on here give excellent support and they have helped me a lot with tips and advice and general hand holding.

You are definitely not alone!

Moxiegirl Wed 11-Sep-13 20:21:17

Oh lily I'm sorry she's so poorly but yes, in crisis situations the help does seem more accessible all of a sudden so hopefully some good will come of this. X

lilypad21 Wed 11-Sep-13 20:47:52

I've failed her sad

Moxiegirl Wed 11-Sep-13 21:08:30

Of course you haven't x
We all try our best but we can't 'fix' them. Take care of yourself thanks

floramckitchen Sun 15-Sep-13 11:59:25

Hi lily

How is your sister doing ?

I've had a funny few days with dd so haven't been on the laptop for a few days.

Hope everybody is having good weekend x

SKYTVADDICT Fri 27-Sep-13 20:16:28

Hi all. It's all gone very quiet on here, hoping its because everyone is having a bit of quieter and calmer times. We seem to be here still. DD finished with her boyfriend last week and is still very happy at college, fitting in and moving on. I am relaxing a bit but still waiting for the drop in happiness which I hope never comes again but who knows! She is on 200mg sertraline which is the highest dose apparently and wanted to go to a party in the week which was postponed thank god! That would have been a sleepless night for me (she wanted to stay over!) and was going to try and see how alcohol affected her! Sigh! Still have that to come then!

floramckitchen Sun 29-Sep-13 17:34:05

Hi Sky

Glad that all is well with your dd!

I don't know where to start with mine - she's started having feinting fits and collapsing (but not blacking out) and says she feels like she is having an 'out of body experience'. Very scary.

However she has started seeing a new psychotherapist (nhs) and also a college course. She applied for a part time job too but didn't get a call back which resulted in hysterics and me having to come home from work to sort her out.

Its not really getting any better and I worried about this collapsing thing. Lucky I was with her.

Moxiegirl Sun 29-Sep-13 21:18:07

Sky sounds positive, long may it last! smile
Flora that's scary, I hope you and she get some answers?
Still plodding on here, placement is still being sorted out, dd is getting more and more down and I've just got off the phone to her screaming at me to get her out of hospital as they are all devils sad managed to calm her down after a while.
I'm having some winenow.

floramckitchen Fri 18-Oct-13 20:02:04

Hi
I haven't been on here for a while. How is everyone?

My dd is still having her funny out of body fainting episodes. The gp suspected diabetes or anemia but the blood tests were normal. Back we go to the gp on Monday to find out what happens next.

Flo

Moxiegirl Sun 20-Oct-13 09:44:48

Could it be anxiety Flora?
Things are still ticking along here, dd is visiting her placement next week - I'm a bit concerned about their abilities to cope with her but we will have to wait and see.
Hope everyone is ok!

floramckitchen Sun 20-Oct-13 19:27:41

Hi Moxie

I think it could be stress related tbh - she says that while its happening its like an out of body feeling and she actually collapses although she doesn't pass out or have a seizure.

Fingers crossed about your dd's placement.

Leebux Fri 25-Oct-13 09:57:38

Hi Flora. Not sure if you are still chatting, but I hope you are ok. I am only new here, and your story touched me. I have a19 yr old Daughter with depression and over eating issues. I feel for the helplessness you feel. I feel it too. I hope you have found something that works for her. For us, fluoxetine and therapy helped, but the underlying issues with bullying will , I think haunt her forever. I know it sound impossible, but you need to try and look after yourself, because I didn't for a while and became depressed myself. It is hard to be strong all the time. Stay as strong as you can. Xx

floramckitchen Fri 25-Oct-13 15:38:44

Hi Leebux

Thanks for your comments. I don't think anybody really realises how much damage that bullying can do. My daughter takes fluoxetine but the gp thinks it might be causing the fainting attacks - she is still on it but persevering because she is feeling some positive effects. She also had a letter today inviting her to a weekly group therapy session which is run by her psychiatrist at the hospital.

How is your daughter now? Is she at work or uni\college?

I am doing my best to be strong and positive - although my weight continues to drop. I'm eating ok so I think its probably stress! Going to work helps me a lot because it gets me away from the negative atmosphere at home. I'm sure if I was at home all the time I would end up with depression myself.

Take care

Moxiegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 21:38:26

How is everyone?
Dd moved to her new placement today. Her primary nurse from the hospital was in tears apparently! They are all very fond of her.
Her new placement is fully staffed with nurses as well as care workers and they see a private psychiatrist once a week.
I'm nervous for her but also cautiously hopeful.

Boofie68 Sun 08-Dec-13 22:27:03

Hi everyone. Wow just been trawling through your messages and you could be describing my 14 year old daughter. She hasn't been diagnosed with BPD but I'm really sure that is what she has. She has just gone into an adolescent psych unit for the 3rd time this year and I'm still on tender hooks waiting to see if she can stay in the local unit or if she is going to be transferred because of lack of beds. I'm very sad to hear how you have been suffering with your girls but it is nice to have finally found others that I can chat/moan with. Tired from a traumatic day but will definitely read this link and stay in touch. Thx px

floramckitchen Mon 09-Dec-13 21:21:28

Hi Boofie

Sorry to hear that your dd is going through this horrible time. Hopefully she will be able stay in your local unit to make it easier for you to visit and for her to have home leave. I will have my fingers crossed for you.

BPD is such a hard thing for us mums to cope with and its so easy to get stressed out ourselves and become exhausted and ill. We just have to be there for them and be as supportive as possible,

Keep posting whenever you feel like it.

I'm sitting here wondering where the hell my dd is. She's not answering her phone again and I have a bad feeling.

take care
Flo

Boofie68 Tue 10-Dec-13 13:45:59

Thanks Flo for your supportive message. As I'm new to the forum thought I'd give you a brief history. Things with D have been gradually deteriorating since she started secondary school. Mostly problems with friendships, school refusal, self harming etc. in April she was admitted to the psych unit for the first time after a picture that she had put on Instagram went viral and she was so distressed that she deliberately walked onto a railway line on the way to school. After coming out of hospital we tried home schooling as she refused to go back to school but she soon got fed up with that as she was bored being at home with me (I had to give up work). School holidays were a nightmare as she got in with a bad crowd. Fifi can totally relate to your thread about worrying when they run away and don't answer the phone. She would threaten that she was going to London to sleep rough and I would be in a complete state of anxiety although she never actually did it. She also told me she wanted a baby and was trying to get pregnant. Terrifying and as a parent you don't even have the right to make them take a contraceptive. Inevitably it ended in disaster and another suicide attempt so back to psych ward for a month. Complete waste of time, she had no treatment and picked up ideas from other children. Since September she has been having tutoring at home but has no real friends, only virtual ones. Last Thursday she attempted suicide again so back to A & E . However she did know of a Facebook friend that was also going into the ward so a dark part of me wonders whether the whole suicide thing was engineered so she could meet up with her friend. She seems relatively happy in the unit watching tv and chatting to her friend although now she suddenly seems to be hearing voices much like her friend, hmmmm. I'm feeling exhausted from the driving to and fro from the unit, the roller coaster phone calls and her younger sister has been very upset and tearful.

I am now seriously considering a therapeutic community or school as this is the 3rd secondary school she has attended and has made up her mind she is not going back to it. Academically she is quite bright and could do ok if her education didn't keep getting disrupted. Can anyone give me any advice or recommendation please?????? I see that Moxie girl and Tonightsthe... might have some experience.

Lastly, thank you Cairngorms for your link. It is so nice to read that there is hope as sometimes I despair about her future. Sorry for essay will keep it shorter next time. Boogie

Boofie68 Wed 11-Dec-13 21:03:11

Frustrating day. Have been told by the psych in the hospital unit that my D has all the signs of BPD but that they don't diagnose it in the UK under 18 yrs old. She also said that DBT would be useful but that it isn't funded in our area on the NHS so I would have to arrange for it privately. Does anyone know if I am in my rights to go to a different CAMHS that might fund DBT? They've also said that they will discharge D tomorrow as her suicide attempts are behavioural rather than a mental illness. Already had 2 enraged calls from my D screaming down the phone saying she will commit suicide as soon as she gets home. Feel sick thinking about tomorrow and need a stiff drink. Boogie

floramckitchen Thu 12-Dec-13 15:33:32

Hi Boogie

What a difficult time for you ! My dd has been recommended for DBT on the NHS but there is still no sign of it after nearly a year. Don't know about going to a different CAMHS though - sorry.

How are things today? Is she home yet? are you coping ok?

I am having a difficult day today with my dd - she wont get out of bed and is talking about 'solving her problems for good'. She is very aggressive and difficult to reach - its like she hates me.

Its all such bloody hard work.

Flo

Boofie68 Fri 13-Dec-13 09:33:57

Hi Flo.

Yes it is all very wearing isn't it particularly when they are being aggressive and nasty. I sometimes feel like I'm constantly being bullied in my own home. I guess just try and hold on to the fact that she doesn't really mean it, easy to say.

I spent yesterday in a real state of anxiety about picking d up from the unit and then when I got there the staff had changed their minds and decided to keep her in as a longterm patient. Initially it was a bit of a relief and last night had a relaxing evening but now back to that gnawing anxiety as to whether I'm doing the right thing by keeping her in the unit.Last time she stayed in for 3 1/2 weeks and only saw a psychologist for 1 1/2 hours in that time and had no group therapy so it was a waste of time.

I did find out that the Maudsley Hospital in London provide a DBT programme for adolescents and their families and patients can be referred by their GP or CAMHs. Mentioned it to the psychiatrist who started flapping about lack of funding but I think I might start making a bit of a fuss and see if that gets us anywhere.

Hope you have a better day today Flo.
Bw Boogie

floramckitchen Fri 13-Dec-13 20:53:08

Hi again Boogie

Why did they keep your dd in? How long do they reckon she will be in for? I must admit it does seem pointless to keep her in long term if she isn't going to get any treatment while she is there.

I think it would be worth kicking up a bit of a fuss to get the DBT - the only problem is that if your dd doesn't engage with it its not really going to help either.

My dd has tried various councellors but never really opens up and doesn't really try any of the techniques they suggest. Its very frustrating!

I've just changed dd's bed and hidden under the pillows were two packs of paracetamol, a razor blade, lots blood stained tissues and a notebook. I didn't read the notebook but put all the stuff back under the pillow minus the paracetamol. She will probably go nuts when she gets in but she is so rarely out of bed it seemed like a golden opportunity to change it. I'm regretting it now.

She is out at the moment - gone to see a friend so me and dh are having a peaceful evening.

I must admit that this is the hardest time of my life so far - its like dd is an emotional vampire that sucks all the joy out of life. I know she is ill but its wearing me out now.

Anyway - back to my vodka

Flo

Boofie68 Sat 14-Dec-13 11:15:39

Hi Flo. You are a kindred spirit. I quite often need a vodka at the end of the day to get me through. Making sure of course that I then carefully hide the vodka afterwards so that my d can't get to it.

My d sounds so similar. She is a magpie and Im always finding tablets, sewing pins, scissors hidden away. It is impossible to keep them safe though however careful you are. When d came out on a visit the other night I thought I had locked everything dangerous away and then she found a pencil sharpener unscrewed the blade and used that. It's a bit sad but I'm now quite numb to the cutting and blood stained tissues it is the tablets that really stress me out.

Apparently, the last stay at the hospital was just for assessment - they diagnosed depression - but this time they have promised to treat her. I am quite cynical but just have to hope they do as promised. We too have tried taking d to 2 different CBT counsellors, both of whom she hated and refused to engage with or do any tasks. It is so frustrating isn't it. Sometimes I feel like she doesn't want to change but quite likes being the eternal victim.

When did your d get diagnosed with BPD? Various specialists have told me that they think 'BPD' is in the mix but say they will not diagnose under 18 so it then gets difficult to insist on treatment. We are in Essex as well near Brentwood, can you recommend any services near you?

I hope you have a drama free weekend.
Boogie

floramckitchen Sat 14-Dec-13 18:27:46

Hi Boogie

dd got diagnosed with BPD this April - she was 18 at that time. We live in Billericay and all her treatment has been under Basildon Hospital apart from a short spell with a private psychotherapist that did more harm than good and also a disastrous hypnotherapy session.

I think Mind at Brentwood have a good reputation but I'm not sure if its really for over 18's rather than children. My dd would not entertain more than one visit there but I think they can be very helpful to carers too and may be able to recommend local services.

Take care

Flo

fifietta Sat 14-Dec-13 21:16:17

Hi All and Flo and Boogie,

I've read your posts over the last few days but haven't had the time to write myself. I'm so sorry Flo that life isn't getting easier,...I'm on the mulled wine tonight (vodka yesterday!). I do try to remember the wise words of sijeunessesavait and have to retain some hope! I'm finding this run-up to Christmas particularly hard and am so disorganised about presents, partic for DD who will be disappointed whatever I get as it won't be a laptop. How are you coping with this jolly season?

Things have gone very downhill with mine over the last few days as similar issues to those she had at her last school seem to be happening again, just when I thought it was all going relatively well - nicer peers, warm, friendly school etc. What seems to happen is that after the initial honeymoon period, DD starts be very open about her difficulties which then become too much for her friends to handle and after initially wanting to help, they withdraw and she feels that they've let her down (a classic trait of BPD) Apparently one set of parents has said she is a 'bad influence'...I'm devastated about that and imagine the whispers going round. She is actually a lovely person who destructively defines herself by her illness and that is a burden for others.

Boogie, do PM me if you want to know more about the Maudsley DBT service, I'm not sure how appropriate it is to talk about it on the thread. But as Flo said, the young person has to be motivated. My DD who is doing DBT has definitely engaged more than she did with CAMHS but has nevertheless missed probably 40% of her sessions. It is incredibly frustrating when you know that it could be helpful. I think so much of this is about coming to terms with a fact that they have to work to change the way they deal with/respond to ups and downs - there is no magic wand -but that's the hard part.

wine wine wine

Love Fifi

Boofie68 Sun 15-Dec-13 12:09:25

Hi All
Flo - oh you are just up the road to me. Sadly, we too have experienced the delights of Basildon hospital. Thanks for Brentwood Mind tip, I will look into it.

Fiji - sorry to hear about problems with school. My d is at her 3rd secondary school, exactly the same pattern in each. First half term she loves it and has lots of new friends, then starts to act out to gain popularity but instead makes herself notorious, the friends start to back off, d starts to become distressed and wants to leave and make a fresh start. The self harming then escalates until we withdraw her from the school. She hasn't attended the current school since Easter and now says she will never return to school unless we move out of the county. We now realise that wherever we move her the problems will follow but sadly she has yet to make that link herself. It is so sad because she could do well academically if she gave herself the chance but I fear that with all the disruption she might come away with no qualifications. I just hope that when she is older and more stable she might be able to go back to her studies.

Fifi more info on Maudsley DBT would be great. How do I PM you? IT is not my strength.

fifietta Sun 15-Dec-13 12:29:08

Hi Boogie,

never actually done it, but if you look at one of my posts, at the top right hand corner it says message poster...try that and see if it works!

Fifi

Boofie68 Wed 15-Jan-14 14:38:22

Hi All
Hope you had a peaceful and drama free Christmas. My d is still in the adolescent psychiatric unit but she came out on leave on Christmas Eve. We had a distressing night as she kept cutting and getting upset and I was really anxious that we might have to take her back to the unit or go to A & E and I didn't want Christmas morning to be ruined for my younger daughter. Anyway my d was quite cheerful Christmas Day and we made it through until after dinner when she decided she wanted to go back to hospital. We didn't make any effort at all New Years Eve as i just felt too drained and didn't feel like celebrating the start of another year. I feel like I spent the rest of the Christmas holidays driving to and from the hospital.

Anyway at my d's recent CPA meeting it was decided that she needs to go to a residential therapeutic community for treatment and education. I was pleased with the decision but have now been told it may take up to 6 months for the arrangements to be made. Nobody at the meeting was able to suggest a community nor did they seem to know how to go about bidding for funding. Those from Education were already bickering with Health as to who would fund it. Grrrrr. It is all so frustrating.

My poor d seems to be getting worse, she absconded from the unit on one occasion so cannot have any ground leave and has now started tearing her hair out and looks very bald at the front. She has been crying solidly for last few days. I feel guilty for leaving her in the unit but the risk is just to high too have her home. Sorry for the big moan i'm having a particularly low day today. Anyway roll on 2014!

floramckitchen Thu 16-Jan-14 20:08:19

so sorry your Christmas was so stressful - it seems to me that bpd just seems to effect the happiness and wellbeing of the whole family and is especially hard on us mums.

Our Christmas was a bit of a non event too although nowhere near as difficult as yours. Dd decided to spend it with her bf but couldn't handle it and we had to drive over and bring her home because she was so upset. She has since split up with her bf and instead of having a meltdown she dealt with it brilliantly is saying she is feeling much much better.

Early days though!

Take care of yourself you are doing absolutely everything you can for your dd.

ashtrayheart Thu 16-Jan-14 20:15:20

Hi all, I was moxie but thought no one had posted here for ages as it fell off my 'threads I'm on'!
My dd is still in her placement, she nearly got transferred to a long term hospital due to her increasingly aggressive and erratic behaviour but managed to pull it together and she is now relatively stable and has just started psychotherapy.
Christmas was quite stressful even with her home just the 2 nights but we all survived smile
Hope you are all doing well!

Hi everyone - it's been ages since I posted but I think of you often and it's good to see that you're hanging in there. My DD is stable, inasmuch as someone with bpd can be stable. She hasn't self-harmed since September, which I think is a really encouraging sign, though she was very low over Christmas. I'm hoping that she will pick up a bit as the days get longer, as this time of year is so tough.

I've learnt a lot about how to support her from this book and thought it worth recommending to you all. It's been especially useful to understand the DBT approach, since my DD's psychiatrist has decided that she doesn't meet the criteria even to go on the waiting list, such is the demand for places. Very frustrating, but it's out of our hands and learning how to behave around her is the only solution I can think of, following the belief that you can't change other people, you can only change the way you react to them!

It's really helped me to stop feeling resentful and angry towards her when she appears to be behaving badly and I hope in time that we can get her onto a more settled path with a clear view of the future. For now she is doing an undemanding job and has started a distance learning course about (of all things!) Psychiatry and Social Work! I hope she might venture into something more challenging which would get her mixing with people her own age a bit more, but am trying to remain patient.

Sympathy to you all, and do remember that it's OK to put yourselves first at least some of the time!

x

floramckitchen Fri 17-Jan-14 20:53:51

That book looks good Sij - I need all the help I can get.

Quick question - do you think its a good idea for a bpd sufferer to become friends with another bpd sufferer? My dd has formed a very strong friendship with a member of her therapy group who is so similar to my dd its quite scary. They get on like a house on fire and dd says that she has finally met someone who understands her and she also fully understands her new friend.

I feel a bit worried about it but not sure why.... Maybe its a good thing

ashtrayheart Fri 17-Jan-14 20:58:34

Flora my dd spends her life making new 'best friends' with girls similar to her (she lives in a home with 7 or so girls with the same issues) but it doesn't last due to the erratic nature of bpd! But I do think she learns a little more from every 'friendship' too.

ashtrayheart Fri 17-Jan-14 21:00:51

And as an aside dd is bi sexual as are most of the girls there - that adds an extra dimension to the hormones drama and confusion!!

starlight1234 Fri 17-Jan-14 21:07:54

My Exh had bpd..Can I recommend a book stop walking on eggshells..I read it and found it really helpful

floramckitchen Sat 18-Jan-14 18:48:44

That's interesting ashtray - I have a feeling my dd might be bi sexual or maybe gay. She hasn't said anything and has always had boyfriends in the past but I wouldn't be surprised.

More drama ahead is an absolute certainty.

silvermirror Sat 18-Jan-14 21:43:57

I found this book both sympathetic and supportive and really easy to read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1572245077/ref=pd_aw_sims_1?pi=SL500_SY11

Boofie68 Mon 20-Jan-14 14:07:53

Hi, my dd also has very short, intense friendships with girls (they usually last about a month) which often flip over into a gay relationship. I'm just generally quite relieved that I don't have to worry about underage pregnancy! (apologies for being flippant). My dd is still in the psychiatric unit. She seems to be picking up other patients symptoms almost daily, being able to read other peoples thoughts, needing to run away etc. It is quite worrying but we are hoping that we are on the cusp of finally getting her some treatment so we don't want to discharge her just yet. I also went and saw my MP on Friday to moan about the useless Childrens Mental Health system and he was hopeful that he might be able to get some results. Fingers crossed.

ashtrayheart Mon 20-Jan-14 20:47:06

Good luck boofie, an mp on board does tend to speed things along! Any more mentions of potential residential placement?

Boofie68 Thu 23-Jan-14 11:46:41

Hi Sij - Glad that things seem to be on the right track for your dd.

Ashtrayheart - no more news other than the Social Worker told the ward it ws highly unlikely they would fund a residential stay. I wore myself out last week chasing my tail, phoning round for information and getting nowhere so taking a week off and hope the MP gets stuck in. The next CPA is not until 18th Feb so highly unlikely anything more will get done until then.

Glad that Mental Health in young people is hitting the news. Hopefully it might improve matters in the future.

ashtrayheart Fri 24-Jan-14 20:24:35

Boofie I don't blame you, sometimes you have to take a step back and recharge for a bit! Am here if you need any help x

Boofie68 Sat 25-Jan-14 01:24:07

Thanks Ashtrayheart. Appreciate your help.

Boofie68 Fri 31-Jan-14 14:47:05

Hi all. Just a quick question about self harm. Just been to a parenting group discussing SH and everybody else's children in the group were very secretive about it. My d self harms a lot and we have had to go to A and E on a few occasions but she always shows me as soon as she has done it. I was made to feel that because her SH is so explicit that it is behavioural and not a mental health problem and I feel a bit upset that her problem didn't seem to be taken seriously. I'm just interested to hear others accounts of SH.

Hi Boofie

I don't really have an answer to your question, but it's good that you have some support in the form of a parenting group. Did someone specifically tell you that your DD's self-harming is not a mental health problem? Whatever the cause, it is certainly something to be taken seriously.

You might find this video interesting. The speaker is a Human Givens therapist with a great deal of experience working with teenagers and self-harm issues.

Stay strong and be proud that your relationship with your DD is good enough that she can communicate with you about her self-harm.

Boofie68 Mon 03-Feb-14 12:13:32

Thanks Sij

The video was really interesting and informative. I think I'm going to send it out to some of my relatives who really don't understand the SH.

The parenting group is run by a psychologist at the psychiatric unit where my d is staying. I just felt that the psych was implying that her SH was manipulative behaviour or a way of communicating rather than a reaction to emotional pain. She is also trying to abscond a lot and now hearing voices which I think are getting branded as manipulative and behavioural rather than mental health issues. My thoughts go round and round in my head but at the end of the day all I can think is that regardless of whether it is mental health or behavioural if she was happy, stable and able to cope then she would not have to/feel the need to do these dysfunctional things.

ashtrayheart Mon 03-Feb-14 12:19:58

My dd 'hears voices' and sees things usually when something has happened she doesn't like or she has been particularly aggressive - they put hers down to 'pseudo' hallucinations.
I'm not sure if it's due to manipulative behaviour or if in times of extreme anxiety she genuinely experiences these things. The professionals are adamant she is not suffering any form of psychosis.
My dd is always very open about her self harming, I think bpd sufferers are less likely to be secretive about it maybe?

ashtrayheart Mon 03-Feb-14 12:22:51

I think there's a very fine line between behavioural and mental health issues. When dd took 3 od's in quick succession health refused to section her resulting in ss having to get a court order for a secure unit (no nurses). Then after a few months they decided to section her and she was transferred to hospital. The only difference was a change in the person who assessed her!

Boofie68 Mon 03-Feb-14 12:44:52

Yes, i thought that it may be the case that bpd sufferers are more likely to be open about their SH. I agree as well that there is a fine line between 'mental health' and 'behavioural' problems. Shame the experts always seem to use these 'labels' to their own advantage i.e. we are not entitled to a Social Worker because d's problems are mental health and so we come under the CAMHs umbrella, then at the unit they imply her problems are behavioural rather than 'mental 'health' which makes me feel that somehow her problems are devalued.

How is your d getting on at her residential school?

Remember too that many people close to bpd sufferers can feel manipulated. It's not deliberate behaviour by our DDs! The book I recommended upthread helped me to understand my reactions as well as DD's behaviour, and more importantly to learn some ways to communicate that help her.

ashtrayheart Mon 03-Feb-14 16:19:49

It is easier now she doesn�t live at home, but sometimes I find myself getting drawn in to some manipulative behaviour (she often says one thing to her Dad and another to me) but I am getting better at not reacting to things and keeping my mouth shut rather than pulling her up on any discrepancies in what she is saying! It means we get on much better.
Boofie she is doing ok thanks, although the test will be after her birthday (it�s tomorrow, we are staying over in a nice hotel then going out for the day). Last year she was ok until after her birthday then it all went pearshaped!
She really likes it there though and desperately doesn�t want to go into long term hospital so hopefully that will keep her from doing anything drastic. She is doing lots of gcse work at school and getting on well there.
I hope the next CPA is productive for you and your dd and the mp has made a start on helping to get things moving!

Boofie68 Mon 03-Feb-14 18:40:59

Ashtrayheart - glad your dd likes it. Good luck for tomorrow!

ashtrayheart Mon 03-Feb-14 19:59:38

Thanks (not sure what happened to my apostrophes confused)

gow Thu 13-Feb-14 16:51:41

I am a first time poster on here also not the mother of the young person I want to talk about although I may as well be as her mother gave up trying to help a long time ago. There doesn't seem to be a diagnosis for her and I am at my wits end as to what to do next. She has had long term MH issues, started self harm at ages 11. i really thought we had made some progress in the last year, she has been living independently for 7 months ( just opposite me) since coming out of secured housing. She lived with me for a while after her mum could no longer cope and there really was no where for her to go. At that time she was constantly self harming, overdosing but not enough to kill, hospitalised, sectioned once for a week,generally out of control and each day I never knew what would happen next. The last 5 months have seen a marked improvement in her mental health but then 2 weeks ago she began to feel bad again. She spends a lot of time with me talking things over and she decided that she need help again BUT left it rather too late to go to the Drs. So, last week she stayed at mine for the weekend and she decided she would go to Drs on Monday but had a complete melt down on Sunday, I asked her to call the crisis team as she had cut her wrist in several places not enough for stiches but still! She did but then did a runner on me and they called the police. There was a bit of a stand off for a couple of hours until the police decided she had to go to hospital, she resisted and they handcuffed her and at hosp she was sedated. None of this is new to me but I am just so sad it has come to this again. So on monday I get a call to ask me to go to her review meeting. she did not want to stay at the hospital and is clever enough too give the Drs the answers they want to hear to allow them let her go. all that was offered was a visit from CMHT at some point this week. Basically they just handed her back to me, I took her home and she slept as she had been sedated in the early hours. Yesterday she self harmed again, said suicide was her only way out ( answerphone msg on my mobile when I work half an hour away from where she is!) I left straight away and when I found her she had bandaged her arm but then took off again saying she could not deal with this any more. I called crisis team they told me to call the police so for the second time in 3 days I was out with hte police tryaing to find her and eventaully she was sectioend again in the early hours of this morning a different hospital to sunday. I wasn't able to go to her review this pm as I have to work as have often taken time off for her and guess what although "reluctant" they have let her go once again. I am sorry for this essay but am so fed up that no one seems to be able to help. It has been good to get it off my chest though and I know there are others like yourselves who understand. Thanks for reading am off now to see her and hope we dont have the same tonight as I could with some sleep!!!

Boofie68 Thu 13-Feb-14 18:59:58

Wow I think you must be an amazing person to be helping this girl. I just want to say a massive thank you on her behalf. I am so sorry you are suffering from all this stress. I presume that your 'friend' is now in the adult mental health system. I only have experience of children's mental health but my experience so far is that you have to push and fight for every little thing. I would say the stress of trying to get care and treatment for my d is nearly as stressful as her MH symptoms. Please feel free to unload anytime on this message board. I only found it recently and it is a lifeline to find and speak to others in a similar situation. Your 'friend' is really lucky to have found you.

gow Fri 14-Feb-14 08:45:44

Thanks Boofie it's lovely to have someone who understands! one of the difficulties is with the adult MHS as she has to agree with anything offered whereas when she was in the childrens service I was "allowed", as were they, to influenece some decisions for her if that makes sense? The ridiculous thing is the literally overnight change to adult services when she became 18 as if on the stroke of midnight she was a different person!!
We seem to be caught in this cycle of her going downhill and she leaves it too late to get any help and it then becomes a crisis hence the police/sectioning/release thing going on.
I am pretty ok in that I can be very calm, I have done some training in being a listener and can remind her of actions and consequenses etc etc but I dont know how many times we can keep going through the same thing when nothing seems to change, 6 years and counting so far. It makes me think that this approach is not the right one but what else to do? her Mum can only deal with her now when she is doing ok, and I dont blame her in the slightest, it has improved their relationship to an extent I guess but hasn't changed her behaviour at all just that mum is not involved during her episodes and sometimes that can be for a longtime.
When she is well she is clever, funny and capable but turns into the worst kind of "Kevin" reverts to appalling "teenager" type behaviour on top of the sadness and and inability to see anything good in the world. On the upside she slept well last night due to the sedative she had while sectioned and it's friday and half term next week so I am less caught up with other responsibilites. It's great to be able to "talk" about it and I feel able to deal with whatever today brings at the moment!! there is always wine if we have a quiet night...for me not her!!

gow Fri 14-Feb-14 09:58:04

Just posted and it disappeared! What I was going to say ....I have now read the whole thread and I hope you wont be offended if I say it has given me some comfort to know that my "surrogate daughter" has many of the same behaviours as you all mention, is it daft to say it almost makes it more normal? The lying, the manipulative behaviour, the refusal to enter into any possibly helpful therapy, medication, the SH etc etc, the intense short lived and often sexual partnerships with other females but also the one night stands with only too willing men. I could go on but I think you all know exactly what I am talking about. Very pleased to see the mention of vodka, usually only taken when I am totally sure she is somewhere safe, i.e. sectioned!!

Boofie68 Fri 14-Feb-14 13:06:38

Hi Gow
I'm so glad you have found this site. I have found it a lifeline to find others that are experiencing the same problems. I know what you mean about the overnight change from child to adult. It must be so frustrating to have to sit back and watch your surrogate daughter make bad decisions without being able to have any input.

You have done so well hanging on in there for 6 years. It seems relentless this cycle of destructive behaviour doesn't it. My d seems to have been on a downward spiral since starting secondary school. I just have to remind myself that their are a few stories of people seeming to learn to manage their illness and certainly quite a few seem to get married and have families. The psych at the ward where my daughter currently stays seems to think that there is hope that at some point she could turn her life around. Has your surrogate 'd' managed to get any qualifications or a job?

I hope you have a less stressful half term. Remember to take time out for yourself.
bw Boofie x

gow Fri 14-Feb-14 13:58:38

Ah Boofie thanks for your concern. She did her public services course and was student of the year, I went to her "passing out parade" ( family didn't) it was very hot and indeed several students DID pass out! While at college she had access to the student councellor ( all of that is shit you know she said!!) She is a clever young woman and the she passed the course easily so often missed days but could catch up. her tutors turned a blind eye to her attendance as she was passing all her modules with high marks and of course she had the get out of jail free card with her mental health. Still it was good for her to have to, at times, get up and go and DO something. Her huge downward spiral has been since leaving college (3 yrs ago)and although she did need a fair bit of support while at college and was still SHing she was at least seeing her camhs worker regularly. It really does help to put it down in black and white, usually I have no one to discuss it with as understandably most people don't want to know after the initial " well just do this and it will all be ok" type of attitude. Not that I blame them but it's pointless sharing with people who dont understand what its like, as you know!!
You are right there are some success stories, even on this thread, so we have to hang in there I guess. I am at work right now and so far today it's all quiet but friday night is often when she starts to deteriorate unless she sees her very unhelpful alchohol, drug supplying so called friends in which case its usually the early hours of saturday! I am on a promise for an early drink at the local and a couple of hours of normality with friends. Thanks for letting me moan and I really hope your daughter can turn it around and live a happy life and that you have a peaceful weekend.x

floramckitchen Sun 16-Feb-14 19:32:23

Hi gow

I admire you so much for supporting this young woman when all her family seem to have given up on her.

My dd went off to Brighton on the train this morning. Still not home and not answering her phone. She has been very down since splitting up with her boyfriend and has hardly come out of her bedroom.
So it was a bit odd this morning when she got up and went out.

Not much I can do I suppose. She is an adult and can do as she pleases but I am in a constant state of anxiety and panic wondering what's going on.

All this has been going on for just over a year now and I am beginning to get worn down.

I could do with a little holiday but I'm too anxious to book one - just in case of drama !!

Hopefully she will be home soon and I can crack open the Smirnoff.

ashtrayheart Sun 16-Feb-14 19:44:29

Gow, she is lucky to have you. You sound lovely x
Boofie has there been a CPA recently?
Flora I hope she's ok, no wonder you're anxious.
Things not great with my dd, she managed to od last week in her placement (stole a bottle of tablets from a dr!) she is 'ok' but she assaulted a staff member last night sad after 'hearing and seeing things'. Managers meeting tomorrow- I think long term hospital is looking ever more likely.

floramckitchen Sun 16-Feb-14 19:56:45

its just so sad that so many lovely, talented young women are so tortured mentally and having such a difficult start in life. I feel so bloody useless because its clear that whatever help is out there isn't really working for them.

I wont give up and will support my dd for as long as she needs me. I'm her mum - what else would I do?

I just make sure that I cherish our happier moments and am consistent in my support of her.

That cheesy phrase 'keep calm and carry on' really is good advice for a bpd mum!

Boofie68 Tue 18-Feb-14 19:38:04

Hi Ashtrayheart
So sorry things are not going well with your d at her placement. They must surely be used to these sort of behaviours?
My d's CPA has been delayed until the middle of March as a lot of the professionals invited couldn't attend. At least they notified us beforehand. Usually they don't bother, they just don't turn up. In the meantime my d hasn't been out of the unit in weeks, not even to attend Education,as she then absconds and the police have to be called. In some ways it is a relief not having her come home but then I also feel that she is deteriorating and being in a psych ward long term is not helping.

Hi Flora I hope your d made it home unharmed. At least I don't have to worry about those sort of situations at the moment.

Best wishes Boofie

ashtrayheart Tue 18-Feb-14 20:11:06

Hey boofie I understand your mixed feelings and have experienced the lack of communication also!
Well, dd's placement has given notice on her sad so she will be off to a long term hospital as soon as it's been arranged. Lots of reasons but the last straw was last night when she scared 2 girls so badly one has now run away sad
Also, just got the news yesterday that she has a chromosome disorder 'triple x syndrome' which may not cause any issues in lots of females but some get landed with a full set of symptoms! Bit of a shock to us both.

ashtrayheart Tue 18-Feb-14 20:11:49

And Flora is dd ok?

floramckitchen Tue 18-Feb-14 21:26:13

dd got home on sunday night about 10:30 in the end.

She was quite cheerful but had spent most of the day on trains!

She did well not to have a meltdown with all the train delays - I was wondering if the fact that she was on her own and had nobody to have a meltdown in front of it might have made her man up a bit more and take some responsibility.

onwards and upwards
Flo

Boofie68 Thu 20-Feb-14 09:02:24

Oh Ashtrayheart yet more worries. Sorry to hear your news. It is a shame that the placement didn't work out for your d. Maybe she can try again in the future.

Flo glad your d was ok.

ashtrayheart Thu 20-Feb-14 21:46:29

Dd had a mental health assessment but wasn't sectioned so couldn't go to the secure hospital they had identified as you have to be sectioned to be admittedconfused
So last I heard she was packed and the ambulance staff were at her placement waiting to be transferred to a hospital somewhere! hmm
The hospital that I really think she should go to is full. So fuck knows where she will end up sad

Boofie68 Thu 20-Feb-14 22:07:49

Ashtrayheart - Bloody hell, this system is utterly ridiculous. I can't believe that they can treat adolescents and their families this way. My heart goes out to you, the stress of this situation must be intolerable.

I know that you have enough on your plate but I recently submitted my views on CAMHS to parliament as they are holding an enquiry http://bit.ly/1gEBvz1. My evidence will probably disappear into a black hole never to be seen again but maybe if enough of us do it maybe things may improve. Boofie

ashtrayheart Thu 20-Feb-14 22:12:48

Just heard she's not moving til tomorrow now.
I will have a look at that boofie - I can always do it from work!

Boofie68 Sun 23-Mar-14 21:57:55

Hi All. Just wondered how you were all getting on? My d has now been diagnosed with Emerging Emotional Dysregulation Disorder of the Borderline type. Not sure if that will help in getting treatment. How are your girls? Boofie

gow Tue 01-Apr-14 13:13:49

How is everyone doing? We seem to have gone from bad to worse in the last 3 weeks! It's so frustrating, so difficult to get the right sort of help for our young people. A is having daily visits/phone calls from MHT but they dont seem to be able to help her at all. To be fair I don't think she knows what will help but is not prepared to try anything except the endless rounds of getting drunk, "recreational" drug use and self harm. I was hoping the upturn in the weather might have a little positive effect but that hasn't happened.... yet. She is currenly staying with me as too vunerable to stay in the flat and has had a big falling out with Mum so is not even visiting her, grandad died recently and both she and Mum are finding it hard and harsh words have been said. I recognise that things like a bereavement do not necessarily bring out the best in people but it has actually brought out the worst. A lot of what seems like competitive grieving going on if that makes sense? Ho hum, I can still see a tiny flicker of light at the end of that bloody long tunnel and hope you all see it too!

floramckitchen Wed 02-Apr-14 19:19:23

Hi all
Just thought I would share something interesting.

My bpd dd has been attending a therapy group once a week since last October and is one of about 7 girls some with anorexia and some with bpd. The interesting thing is that she has realised that she doesn't like one of the other bpd girls because of her attitude and behaviour etc etc . I think the other girls personality and behaviour is so similar to my dd's that my dd has finally realised what its like for anyone trying to have a relationship with her. Its almost like my dd is now seeing herself as others see her because of her interaction with the girl at group therapy.

Its amazing how much she seems to have changed. Calmer, easier to get on with, sensible and SMILING !!!!.

Is group therapy the answer? or is my dd particularly self aware?

I will be monitoring closely
x

gow Thu 03-Apr-14 10:57:39

Oh Flora that is very interesting. I know A often complains about other peoples difficult behaviour but can't see it in herself. I am suggesting all sorts of therapy including group therapy but she doesnt want to know as she realises it's a long term commitment and she wants a quick fix. Was your DD positive about starting the therapy or did you have to persuade her? Does it have an end date or does it go on until she decides she doesnt need it anymore?

floramckitchen Fri 04-Apr-14 20:12:56

Hello Gow

My dd was very nervous about doing the group therapy and was initially quite sceptical about it all. It was all that was on offer and she felt she had no choice but to give it a go but like your dd she wanted a quick fix... I think the real turning point was meeting the other girl and she said it was like a mirror being held in front of her and she could now clearly see how her behaviour had effected relationships with friends, boyfriends and family in the past. She said she was embarrassed about it and wishes she could apologise to people .

She says she wants to get well now and can be a part of the therapy group for two years if she needs to be.

I am just crossing my fingers that this new self awareness continues and she can build on all the hard work she has put in. She still has quiet days and days when she doesn't get out of bed but on the whole I can see a lot of improvement and she seems calm now - her eyes are clear and untroubled (hard to explain that one!). I used to be able to see the racing thoughts and the mental struggles in her eyes all the time. Now its not there so much.

But I will keep monitoring as I know that relapses can easily occur out of the blue!

Good luck
Flo

Boofie68 Tue 08-Apr-14 22:02:41

Hi Flo. It is sounding very hopeful for your dd. Interesting that she has recognised her symptoms in others. My dd moans a lot about other girls on her ward and seems completely oblivious that she is acting in a very similar fashion.Maybe being a bit more mature has helped. I spoke to an academic who did some research with sufferers of bpd a few years ago and she said that those who had an early onset of symptoms were much more likely to grow out of their problems as they matured whereas those who only started to manifest bpd symptoms in their 20's were more likely to have to manage their symptoms lifelong.

Gow, sorry that you are having a difficult time with your d. Maybe it is a reaction if her mum is struggling after the bereavement and things will improve when the competitive grieving comes to an end. I hope things improve soon.

I'm finding the school holidays quite tricky . My dd gets very bored in the ward as they seem to have no structure during the holidays and wants me to visit for long periods of time, then my other daughter gets resentful as she doesn't like me visiting, plus I'm trying to fit in working as well.

We have taken the decision to go away with my youngest daughter just for a couple of days next week for a short break, leaving my dd in the ward. We haven't told her yet but I'm sure she will not take the news well and I do feel guilty but she will have grandparents to visit her and it seems unfair on my youngest daughter that we can never go away because of the issues with dd.

Hope you all have a drama free Easter.

Boofie

floramckitchen Fri 11-Apr-14 16:25:06

Hi all

Have just discovered that my dd is now teaching herself about Buddhism and has started meditating. She has bought some books etc etc. She told me she has to work on herself and not rely on others to fix her problems and has apparently recommended it at her therapy group with mixed reactions! I am so proud of her - she is working so hard to get well. So different from this time last year when she was on a MH ward.

She still has sleep problems and nightmares but they are happening less often now. I've got everything crossed that she doesn't slip back again.

Happy easter
Flo

Boofie - I hope you get to go away with your youngest dd. It sounds like a good idea to get some space and devote some time to her even if its just a day or two.

Boofie68 Sun 13-Apr-14 13:44:44

Hi Flo. It is so nice when someone posts good news. It makes me feel hopeful that there is hope for my dd and eventually she too might start to improve. Have a happy Easter. Boogie

Hi everyone

I keep an eye on this thread and was really pleased to read your news, Flora. Meditation and mindfulness are fantastic tools for everyone, and maybe your DD can give you some techniques too which will help you to support her. I have found that the calmer I am, the easier it is for my DD to recover from the tidal waves of emotion which sometimes overcome her, even now. I've just read this memoir which really helped me to understand what it must feel like to be so unable to control the intensity of emotions.

Boofie - I really hope you have managed to go away as you planned. It will do you good, and won't do your DD any harm. You and your family must put yourselves first while you have the opportunity to do so - it will fortify you for the time when your DD comes home. I remember crying all the way on the plane when we went away with our son but without DD, but there is no doubt that it did us all good to have a break, and it was important for our son (15) to see that we could be our 'normal' selves. More recently, it has been really good for DD (nearly 19) to know that we trust her enough to go away for a couple of nights, leaving her alone, and her confidence has been noticeably greater as a result.

Thinking of you all, and in awe of what you are doing for A, Gow. Remember to look after yourself, too!

flowers

jaabaar Wed 16-Apr-14 01:10:16

Nothing to contribute except stating the desperation.

BIL1 in a home

BIL2 at MIL house suffering from psychosid induced by drugs. He is highly aggressive and attacked us when we checked up on him, also verbally abuse and tried to attack neighbours.
Police and mental health coordinator called several times. Doctor/police coming with court order to take him hospital.

MIL in hospital since a month with 7 operations following fourth suicide attempt.

Tomorrow hospital meeting regarding MIL. Then see Iif BIL has been sectioned and go see him.

Then sunday pick up other BIL for easter lunch.

In between having to listen to death threats every other day from BIL with psychosis.

It is hard. It is mostly hopeless. Nobody listens to family imput. They get assesed as fine. Then u find MIL in a pool of blood.

We keep trying to help as a family what else can we do.

And we have children.

This is life.

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