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When suicide is the only positive.

(89 Posts)
ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 00:23:32

New username because I don't want to be identified right now.
Don't want to be me, if I'm quite honest.

I just want to die. There are no negatives to me dying, only positives. I have no reasons to live.

I have such severe social phobia/anxiety that I can't step foot outside/use the phone/be even slightly normal. I am a drain and a waste of space.

Self harmed for so long it feels completely normal, tried it tonight but it's not enough.

Surely there comes a time when you're so useless and pointless that suicide is genuinely better for everyone?

Bakingnovice Thu 17-Jan-13 00:29:10

Can you tell us a little more about your phobias? They sound debilitating. How long have you felt like this? Is the self harming a release or punishment? Sorry for the questions but I'm trying to understand you better.

In answer to your question, I don't think suicide is the better option for anyone. Especially not those left behind. You come across as an articulate educated person. You are not pointless or a waste of space. I wish I could say more to help. I'm so sorry you are feeling so desperately sad.

TheSecondComing Thu 17-Jan-13 00:34:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Suicide is not the best answer. Think of those you will be leaving behind.

You are not a waste of space at all. You just need help and everyone does at some point.

My mum tried this and luckily it didn't work but it has had an impact in me.

There are so many reasons to live.

Talking helps so much. I cant read this and ignore it as it is a way of asking for help and that's a very brave step.

Bakingnovice Thu 17-Jan-13 00:37:12

Thiskiki have you spoken to your gp? They may be able to help with medication or referral for counselling. You are important and we care. Please don't feel alone and I agree with spsfanjo, talking might help.

TheSecondComing Thu 17-Jan-13 00:40:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 00:41:28

Thank you for replying. I regretted posting this thread as soon as I clicked post, so please don't feel obliged to indulge me.

I have severe social phobia/generalised anxiety, and I can't cope with dealing with people. Dealing with people makes me panic hugely, and the anxiety means that I am constantly anxious/nervous. Going outside inevitably brings about a panic attack.

Self harm is a release; a coping mechanism. I can't cope without it. I wouldn't be able to go outside without self harming first, and after the fact too.

I've self harmed since I was 13, and it's the only way I know how to cope. However, I've only had anxiety since I was 18. I'm now 26. I haven't worked in years, because I can't bring myself to go outside. I am, genuinely, a burden and a waste of space. I contribute nothing. I am probably the very definition of useless.

I have professional support in a sense; I see my GP once every two months, I have anti-depressants, and I see an OT to try to tackle the anxiety. Nothing helps. I've seen countless professionals. I'm at a loss as to what to do next. I know it is me at fault.

I'm being incredibly self-indulgent, and I'm sorry for it. I'm selfish, and I know it.

aufaniae Thu 17-Jan-13 00:49:25

You're not selfish! You're having to deal with things that moat people couldn't imagine and that makes you very strong,

Suicide is immensely difficult and damaging for those left behind, please don't do that to those who care about you.

I would say although you are in touch with your GP, it doesn't seem to be working. There must be something which will help, you just haven't found it yet IMO.

Is there any other way you can access support? Have you been in touch with any organisations aimed at supporting people in your kind of situation?

ChicaT Thu 17-Jan-13 00:58:33

I've been exactly where you are now and know how you're's a hideous place to be. Have you thought about seeing a psychiatrist or psychotherapist? Psychiatrist might be better for you as then they can manage your medication. Medication can get you out of an immediate hole but must be combined with talk therapy - you can get out of this state, even if it seems like you have been like this forever and will remain do forever. I know the bleakness, but your life does have value and you can, with help, learn to love yourself a little. On the NHS you have to push hard for psych help when you're in a state where it's the last thing you want to do. Have you considered writing to your GP and describing what you're feeling? It might be easier than saying it in person and might make him understand how serious things are for you. We might not know you in person, but lots of people on Mumsnet will have read your post and will be thinking about you and caring for you. Stay safe x

TheSecondComing Thu 17-Jan-13 00:58:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

You are not at fault and you are not selfish.

You are still young and you could have a great long life ahead of you. There's no need to waste that.

Do you have any family or friends you can speak to?

Can you get on at your GP for more help?

My mum ended up in a mental health hospital after her attempt for months as she kept attempting to end her life. When she came out of there as far as I know she hasn't attempted again but I still have that fear that she will and that will never go away.

You will get the help you need and you will be so grateful that you never did it.

Just please don't do it. You will hurt those you leave behind. You might not think this but you will have people who love you and who would be heart broken if anything happened. They are not better off without you.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 01:09:48

You guys are too kind. Please don't feel like you have to talk to me. I'm not anything.

I've seen a psychiatrist (he signed off on a higher dose of meds). I've tried to have psychotherapy, psychoanalytic therapy, and CBT. In short, I am terrible at speaking about how I feel. Therapists always ditch me because I'm genuinely terrible at talking about thoughts and feelings. I don't cope well with rejection and I just can't bring myself to ask if I can try again. I know how it'll end up.

I don't have anyone I can ask for help. I know (from the brief therapy I have had) that I need to help myself. But I despise myself. I want myself dead. I need help, I know I do. I'm just out of options. I've tried everything I've been offered.

I can't call the Samaritans. I wish I could. I physically can't call anyone, picking up the phone makes me panic and I just can't do it. It's like words won't come out of my mouth.

I know I sound pathetic. I've tried so many different things, but I get so anxious/paranoid/panicked that I just can't speak to people.

All I keep thinking about is how futile human life is. As individuals, we accomplish nothing. There really isn't a point to anything. All I can feel is how much this hurts and how much I want to be rid of everything.

Is emailing the Samaritans at all doable? If you cant speak on the phone email might be the best chance. Or you could right down what you say then call and just read it so you aren't having to think.

You have admitted you need help and you have done so before anything happened which is very brave.

Can you right down how you are feeling in a diary? like a feeling diary?

My mum had one of those as she couldn't open up but found writing alot easier.

It does hurt but imagine the hurt it would cause those around you if you did anything?

I have had very very low points in my life where I have thought maybe not been around would be the easier thing. But then I remember the fear I have and how much it hurt when my mum attempted it and I would never put anyone through that no matter how bad things got.

You will beat this. You will look back and you will be so glad you didn't. You are only 26, that is still very young


chipmonkey Thu 17-Jan-13 01:22:31

Kiki, am going to bed in a second but just wanted to say that suicide is not your only option even though you can't see that now.
You are a valuable human being. You can't see that now but it's true. And you are so young, once you nail this, you will have a long, productive life in front of you.
One practical tip; I have a phone phobia too and what I find helps is jotting down on a piece of paper what I need to say before I make the call. That way, when I hear the person's voice, although I still forget what I was going to say, I can just look at the piece of paper and remember.
Keep posting. Even by posting here, it will help, we might not be professionals but you will find that you're not the only one with the same problems and that really helps.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 01:30:08

SP I'm sorry about your mum. I hope she's able to find the strength to recover, and you can cope in the meantime.
I try to think about those on the 'outside' and I really struggle to. I don't have any friends. The small amount of family that I have would easily be better off without me. They've told me how draining I am.

I've emailed the Samaritans in the past, and they take quite a while to reply. I could try again, but I've never found them to be particularly helpful. I'm sure that's just me being awkward, but all they really do is repeat what I've said back to me.

I keep a diary already, though I'm not good at updating it. I find it triggering to write down how I feel, though I do try to keep a track of when I'm particularly low/anxious.

I'm sorry, I feel like I'm being really oppositional. I just don't know what else I can try. I keep doing what the professionals have told me to do, and it doesn't change anything. I just want out.

I keep crying, and I feel so pathetic. I'm so sorry for refuting the good ideas people have. I've been "in the system" for a while, and I've tried a lot of things. Maybe some people are unfixable?

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 01:33:50

SP I'm sorry about your mum. I hope she's able to find the strength to recover, and you can cope in the meantime.
I try to think about those on the 'outside' and I really struggle to. I don't have any friends. The small amount of family that I have would easily be better off without me. They've told me how draining I am.

I've emailed the Samaritans in the past, and they take quite a while to reply. I could try again, but I've never found them to be particularly helpful. I'm sure that's just me being awkward, but all they really do is repeat what I've said back to me.

I keep a diary already, though I'm not good at updating it. I find it triggering to write down how I feel, though I do try to keep a track of when I'm particularly low/anxious.

I'm sorry, I feel like I'm being really oppositional. I just don't know what else I can try. I keep doing what the professionals have told me to do, and it doesn't change anything. I just want out.

I keep crying, and I feel so pathetic. I'm so sorry for refuting the good ideas people have. I've been "in the system" for a while, and I've tried a lot of things. Maybe some people are unfixable?

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 01:34:47

Sorry for the double post.

KiKi That was 7 year ago when my mum went through that. I was 15 and she was 33. She is now remarried and has two new children. She has a job she loves too. If she had succeeded with ending her life she never would have that now

You are not unfixable. You are not broken either. You are just having a really shit time and need a bit of help to sort yourself out and get back on track.

Instead of writing exactly how you feel in your diary just write one word that describes how you feel and build it up gradually.

I know when my mum did it it was due to childhood events mixed with losing family members very close to her in a short time that got on top of her and she cracked.

How you are talking is similar to how my mum did. She was so wrong and you are in the sense that people would be better off with you gone.

Could you go into a mental health hospital voluntarily? I'm not sure if this can be done as my mum was forced to go. You do need to get help though.

Get another appointment with your GP and tell him/her about how you are feeling and the thoughts you are having. They might put things in motion for you to get help quicker.

I know I am only a stranger over the internet and you are probably thinking why is she so bothered and you might not listen to me but this is something very close to me and I cant bear to think someone feels so low that they contemplate doing something so drastic.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 01:53:21

SP I'm really glad your mum got better. I hate to think of anyone else feeling this way.

I'm so utterly terrified of aging that I really think that dying now is the best idea. I know that aging is perfectly normal and we all go through it, but I can't deal with it. I know that's irrational, and it's the depression/anxiety talking, but I don't know how to control it. I'm convinced that I have cancer, or I will have it in the very near future, even though there's no physical reason for me to think that.

I couldn't cope with being in a hospital, there are too many people. I'd feel far too guilty for taking up a bed that someone actually needed too. I'm definitely not in need of a hospital bed.

My GP is hard to get an appointment with. This is mostly my own fault; I can't see male GPs, and I won't book an appointment on the phone. I book each appointment as I leave the practice. I only feel safe with two of the GPs; one of whom is on maternity leave. I already feel so sorry for the GP that I do see, which is why I limit my visits to two-monthly instead of monthly. I know that I wouldn't want to see me monthly.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 01:55:40

God, that last post makes me sound utterly vain, shallow and self-centred.

Aging is one of the anxieties I have daily. Alzheimers/dementia is lumped in there. I'm terrified of losing my mind. Physical aging scares me. Everything fucking scares me because I'm so pathetic. I have no-one and I'm so scared of everything.

God, stfu me.

Can you go to another doctors surgery? You do not need to feel bad about seeing your GP. She is there to help.

I also found it hard to feel comfortable around male doctors a couple of years ago so I understand that.

You need to speak to a professional about these fears. You are still young and you could feel totally different in a couple of year with the right help.

I am 22 so only a couple year younger but I understand how you feel to a certain extent. It is hard and it gets to the point where giving up seems the best option but its really not.

In my case I struggled after a load of traumatic things happened to me at the age of 15. From then till now I have struggled. I feel low an awful lot of the time and i never once seeked help. I was offered it at 15 but never took it.

Looking back I wish I had as I think it would have helped.

You might not need a hospital bed but you do need help.

Can you go down to the GP surgery tomorrow and make an appointment?

Plan for now.

You must try get some sleep. I need to go to sleep as the toddler will be up soon.

Visit GP surgery and request another appointment.

Write down how you feel. Write everything so you cam hand it over to the GP and you wont have to talk and your GP will know what to do.

I am here to talk to. I have sent you a private message so feel free to inbox me anytime.

I will be back in the morning at about half 7/8 to check on you.

Please get help as soon as you can

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 02:14:51

I can't go to the GPs, I can't go outside on my own. I have someone to take me to my scheduled appointments, but they're not there to take me outside at a drop of a hat, iyswim.
I definitely don't want to change surgeries, it's taken a long time for me to even superficially trust these doctors. I don't think I have the energy to start from the beginning.

I don't know how to ask for help. I've told professionals that I am suicidal before, and they just nod and accept it. They either don't care or don't believe me. I think it's the former.
I think that they want me to die because I'm a burden, and then there'd be room for someone else (someone deserving) on their rota.

I think I've had as much help as I'm entitled to, because i don't have a job. I think I need to shut up and stop bothering the NHS.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 02:17:19

Gosh, I'm sorry for keeping you up so long SP

I am an indulgent idiot. Please, sleep and think of your little one.

I'm nowhere near deserving of anyone's worry. I'm so sorry.

cafecito Thu 17-Jan-13 02:41:09

ThisKiki please do not apologise. If people didn't want to post, then they wouldn't- they would click another button or shut off their computer.

I have to go in a second but I wanted to say, I've been where you are now- I know how shit and isolating and impossibly cage like and dark it is. I attempted suicide once (age 13 I think) and again a year ago, when I left my job, I very nearly actually did it- had the whole plan, everything- it's always something I've got tucked up my sleeve like a little security blanket. I cound't tell anyone, but I ended up calling the samaritans that day, when I was teetering on the platform edge quite literally - and just speaking to the woman on the phone, just talking, just letting out some of it- really was a release. I now have counselling and she doesn't do anything really or challenge anything that directly but what it does provide is ''containment'' for all my intensely negative, depressed, suicidal, feelings. Having that hour to just spill this stuff out, even if it's nonsense- is so helpful.

I was on antidepressants as a teenager, I'm not now. I did see a few psychiatrists when I was growing up for depression and anxiety but I don't now. I am the same age as you, but my life has turned a little corner and bit by bit, even though I still feel pretty damn awfully low 90% of the time, well, there are bits, little slithers of light, where I can say 'yes that day was an okay day because x happened and if I had stayed in all day and avoided the world then x wouldn't have happened'

I still never call anyone - which is odd as I would seem a very outgoing person I guess, and is odd because I had to call people at work etc- but now, never ever call anyone. I can't bear it.

but what gets me through is thinking, yes, I feel like crap, yes I think I'm a waste of oxygen, yes I hate myself and yes people would be better off if I were dead (my mother even told me so! a few times! now she has issues) but that just seems to make me think, okay so I am a waste of space not worthy of existence- what can I do to compensate for that? so for me anyway, my suicidal tendencies have actually propelled me into a need to make my mark in a positive way in this lifetime. I'm very aware of my mortality and therefore, I want to make this life count for something I want to help someone, I want to achieve something.

I don't know if that makes any sense *sleep deprived ramblings but I wanted to say- were here holding your hand. Many of us have walked that horrific, long long path- but I am SO glad today I did not take the actions I considered on those days. So glad.

Also, you say you feel not worthy/guilty etc- I suffer from apologising all the time for my existence, feeling guilty all the time- my counsellor challenged why I would always apologise for taking up an appointment slot someone more deserving could have had- and it all boiled down to me being made to feel I had to apologise for existing since before I was born (my father died, my family had issues with me existing) and then subsequent to that, carrying irrational guilt about people dying throughout my life.

Sounds crazy but once I was able to see why I feel the way I feel (which was only a few months ago that we had this conversation) my behaviour kinda makes more sense to me, so I am less consumed by my dark feelings, and I can step back and say 'ah yes I'm feeling like this because of that' which is the first step to then challenging that.

cafecito Thu 17-Jan-13 02:52:44

suicide is just NEVER the answer, I promise you. No matter what faith, religion, lack thereof, you hold- it is never ever ever the answer. I really mean that. Please ask your GP, or anyone at all, for help if you feel unsafe. Please. You could even call the samaritans and just ask them to stay on the line because you find it hard to talk and then just saw a few words- see if it helps. I always find writing helps me- moving it from head to page, is extremely cathartic. You say a diary can be triggering but you write extremely well so I imagine it would provide some release for you as well. Please keep on posting and don't be sorry smile

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 03:10:05

Thank you cafecito

Your story struck so many chords with me, and I'm so very sorry you've felt this way too. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

You sound incredibly strong. People keep saying that I am strong, but I don't see it. The only reason I'm alive is because I haven't done it right. I've tried to kill myself before, and never succeeded.

I will be seeing my GP early February, and the OT a week after that. I do plan on telling my GP that I don't feel safe, but she usually tells me to tell the OT how I feel. I don't trust the OT, so that never really happens. I always say that I'll try harder to do it, but I can't bring myself to talk to the OT about self-harm/suicidal ideation.

I keep trying with the diary. I never re-read it, as I know that is a trigger, but I do try to write in one. I just struggle because I find it upsetting to do so. I have persevered with it in the hopes it will become easier, but it hasn't. I still find it upsetting/triggering, and I keep trying anyway. I don't know what else I can do.

Thank you so much for all your replies. I feel utterly ridiculous for using up everyone's time, and I am truly sorry for it. I hate feeling this desperate and I just wish I had something to do to tackle it.

AgentFelix Thu 17-Jan-13 04:24:53

Have you thought about doing different types of writing kiki?

If writing down your thoughts upsets you, and I'm the same, then what about using your writing skills to accomplish something else? A novel or a user-guide for something maybe, depending on whether you're imaginative or logical.

If that's a ridiculous idea for where you are at the moment I apologise. I've read your posts and feel truly humbled by your articulate words, your sensitivity towards other people and your impeccable manners. I would love to take away your feelings of being undeserving.

Bakingnovice Thu 17-Jan-13 08:47:22

Kiki I don't want to sound presumptuous but it sounds like there are some very deep rooted issues which maybe stem from your childhood. Maybe if you were able to discuss these issues it might help. You can talk here or privately email one of us, or write it down for you gp or the Samaritans. I know from personal experience that addressing and starting to let go of issues from my childhood really really helped me. Also, every day try and take one teeny tiny tiny step towards tackling things. For example, try and ring Samaritans even if you are unable to talk. They will not hang up, they will most probably stay on the line to listen. Even if all you want to do
Is cry.

Xenia Thu 17-Jan-13 09:55:46

Are you still taking all that has been prescribed for you?

You aren't useless. You say you cannot work as you cannot leave the house. You could work from a computer by email if you felt happy enough to try that.

Also do some internet searches on mood and depression and try to make sure you exercise even if it's just jumping up and down around the house as exercise makes people feel happier. Open some windows as fresh air helps. Only eat good whole foods. Those things help lots of people with their moods and feelings and indeed increase seratonin levels to the brain which is what the pills should be doing too.

Keep writing on here. People like to help.

itsnotjustaslap Thu 17-Jan-13 10:50:37

Hello Kiki

I am so sorry you feel like this. I am also in similar shoes and have actively wanted to end my life several times in the last year. I haven't tried; but there are periods when I can think of nothing else and the lure seems irresistible to dissolve into nothingness and escape from a life which seems hopeless.

However, please don't act on your thoughts. Not just for the other people in your life as suicide leaves behind such a wake of devastation; but for the person within you that has potential to go on to experience happiness again, maybe fall in love and go on and even grow old happily. You are still so young. There is so much of your life to experience. If you can imagine yourself as a child; can you look at yourself with compassion? Can you imagine what your dreams and aspirations were back then? That child within you deserves to live and go on to achieve and enjoy life.

Suicide can feel like an option; in fact it may feel like the only option when we feel that we have absolutely no control over our lives; and paradoxically it is like taking control back. However, you do have control over your own life; and sometimes realising that can make you feel better. Suicide is not inevitable; it is a choice.

The other misconception that people have is that if you are suicidal, you feel so all the time. In actual fact, intense suicidal thoughts reach peaks of intensity. I believe studies have shown that these last for approx 40 - 60 mins duration. So basically; when you feel absolutely at your worst; it is recognising that it is your lowest point, and if you can ride it out for half an hour longer or so you will feel better.

I would also say; please tell someone you trust how you feel; I have one trusted friend who I have told when I feel suicidal (my family are really dismissive of mh problems) and please tell your doctor. I know I'm crap and cannot lecture you because I haven't told my GP, family or other friends because I just can't find the words to talk about it... but I know that's not what you should be doing. will get through this. And look back at your life when in a better place and be so glad that you stayed x

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sat 19-Jan-13 00:59:59

Thank you, everyone.

I wasn't going to update this, because in all honesty, I was mortified at how much I'd shared. This level of emotional outpouring isn't me at all, and I felt really uncomfortable about being too open. I'm normally very closed-off, and that's the best way for me as I panic when people know personal things about me.

I read the replies though, and I felt incredibly rude in not replying and thanking people for their kindness. I know that I'm not a worthwhile person, and that makes it all the more lovely that people have taken the time to reply here, give me such valuable information, and share their own stories.

Thank you all very much.

HiKiki I'm still here if wish to talk

cafecito Sat 19-Jan-13 01:09:52

I'm still here too Kiki

chipmonkey Sat 19-Jan-13 01:18:18

Kiki, no-one here knows who you are and it honestly is a good thing to share feelings.
And I refuse to believe you're not a worthwhile person!

purplecushion Sat 19-Jan-13 01:32:56

Hi op, ive namechanged even though i always namechange so im not able to identify in rl.
I know exactly how u feel cos Im the same, and i force myself through each day. I have zero confidence and am very uncomfortable in social situations like u are.

I dont work either and its not to do with laziness its to do with being terrified of things like that. At school or old jobs I used to get bullied and even people who i thought were my friends seemed to enjoy messing me about.
So dont think you are alone and please dont do anything silly or think that way as life is precious.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sat 19-Jan-13 01:55:17

You guys are so lovely.

The main problem is I'm an idiot. Seriously, a complete idiot. I can't deal with any kind of (perceived) pressure. I know there is no pressure here, and it's anonymous, but I can't seem to help putting it on myself anyway. Someone said they thought that I was good at writing. I manage to twist that compliment, and make it so that I feel under enormous pressure to maintain/top that. It doesn't help that I don't think I'm any good at anything.
I normally preview a post 3 or 4 times (and yet still only notice typos when I hit post), but now I feel like I need to do it at least 10 times. Even now, I feel stupid and fraudulent because what I've written isn't "good". I'm not intelligent/skilled at anything and I feel fake when people say that I am.

Please don't take this as a 'compliment fishing' exercise. I know that people instinctively want to contradict when someone says they're not good at anything. I can't cope with having people believe/say I'm something I'm not. I know I'm useless. I have long since accepted that. When someone contradicts it, all I feel is pressure to live up to that expectation.

I'm whining again, and it's incredibly pathetic. Every so often, I feel this bravado that makes me want to talk to people. I'll have lost it by the morning, and I'll just feel embarrassed and sorry again.

chipmonkey Sat 19-Jan-13 02:18:51

Kiki, if you think you're no good at anything, it's either because you haven't yet found what you're good at, which, at 26, you have all the time in the world to find out, or your perception of yourself is a lot less favourable than it should be.
Both of which are things that can be changed.
You sound lovely xx

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sat 19-Jan-13 03:01:49

Thank you chipmonkey, you're very kind. I think it's more positive to think that I just haven't found out what I'm good at yet. Despite attempting Uni twice (and leaving because of anxiety), and wracking my brains to think of something I might be good at. Maybe there just isn't anything, and I'm ok with that.

So many things scare me, and it's exhausting to even think of listing them all. I've tried in the past, and there are always things that elude me. Even just you saying I sound lovely makes me feel so afraid; What if my next post doesn't convey that same emotion? What if you subsequently change your view? I know it's stupid, but I can't deal with people thinking positively of me, because I know that I will inevitably do something to ruin that.

I don't feel like I have all the time in the world. People keep telling me I'm young, but I don't feel it. 26 is practically 30. 30 is almost 40, which is terrifyingly close to 50, and so on. I have images of myself as a 70 year old and it scares me so badly. It feels far more imminent than it actually is. All I can think is that dying before I get to that stage is preferable.

Even if I wanted to express this to my GP, there's no way I could fit all this into a 5 minute appointment.

I just wish I was equipped to cope in the same way as everyone else seems to. I know that other people must have fears, but they manage to deal with them so much more effectively than I do. I am a complete failure.

AgentFelix Sat 19-Jan-13 04:56:23

Hi Kiki, I think it was my post that may have made you feel pressurised wrt writing. I'm very sorry if it was, but I do understand where you're coming from.

When I've been at my lowest points I've felt a lot like you do. I think a lot of us will relate to the way you've explained it.


lemontruffles Sat 19-Jan-13 08:19:58

Hi Kiki

My heart goes out to you.

I can relate to all the things you are saying because I felt like you at your age. (i am now in my early 50s). I completely empathise with your feelings of fear, your lack of confidence, your self harming. And my heart goes out to you.

Also at your age, things changed for me, and I believe that things can change for you too so that you will, eventually, see that you have worth and value, just for being you. I know that might seem impossible now, but it has happened to me, and it can happen to you too.

I believe that your outpouring on here is the 'real' you, the you that wants life, the you that will bring you through this. I also don't think its easy for you to see this now, but, trust me, this is the strong inner real you.

In my case I discovered, through many sessions with and support from an excellent psychologist, that my problems lay within my childhood. Another poster has also suggested this, and this was certainly my experience. It took me a long time to even start to accept that my utter lack of self worth might not be to do with me, but was rooted in the events of my childhood, and especially in my very problematic relationship with my mother.

In retrospect, I have realised that my extreme depression was somehow a 'safer' way to be than trying to face up to the problems with my mother. I don't know why, but it was.

I don't know if any of this chimes with you.

You coming on here, and writing here, shows to me that somewhere inside you you need and want to carry on, but carry on differently to the way you feel now - how to get from here to there is why you're writing: to look for ways forward. That's why people see you as strong. You do have real inner strength to write here, to reach out, to be honest, and that is so hard to do especially when you are feeling so low.


Xenia Sat 19-Jan-13 11:38:03

I don't thin kit's anything to do with whether you are objectively good at things or not (you are bound to be good at things). It is the levels of chemicals in your brain which makes you feel as you do so the solution is to change those which is what the drugs and in some people food/exercise achieves.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sat 19-Jan-13 13:45:37

Thank you all for replying to me again. I can't quite believe how kind people can be. I am incredibly sorry for using up everyone's time.

I honestly don't know if I have issues from childhood. I've always classed my upbringing as normal, and there aren't any major events that I can pick out as being traumatic. I know there is the chance of these being repressed though. I find it near impossible to talk about feelings/emotions in real life, which is obviously a huge barrier to therapy.
I've tried different forms of therapy before, and it always ends the same way; the therapist ends the sessions because I'm useless at talking. I really struggle with rejection, so past experience with therapy doesn't make me feel inclined to try again. The only reason I've been able to share so much here, is because of the anonymity. I couldn't bear someone in "real life" knowing so many personal things about me. I'm not even completely comfortable talking about it online.

In terms of diet/exercise, health is one of the things I'm obsessively worried over. I exercise a lot, though it is all within the house. I probably spend about two to three hours, spread out over the course of the day, using my exercise bike/cross trainer/yoga dvd/weights.
Food is something that stresses me out a lot. I'm vegan, and I've found over the years that the best way to manage the stress over eating, is to only eat nutritious, 'healthy' foods. I have a very simple diet of probably about 10-15 things that I eat religiously. I would like to not have to eat, purely because of how anxious it makes me, but then I'm equally anxious over not getting the nutrients I need.
I also take the meds that I'm prescribed properly. I'm not comfortable taking them, but I do.

Sorry for waffling. It's all so awfully self-indulgent and whiny too. I'm sorry for being so annoying.

amillionyears Sat 19-Jan-13 14:37:01

Do you eat cabbage or brocolli?
Sorry to sound so trite, but it might just help.

You help people. I dont think you realise quite how much you help people just by posting so openly on here about this subject.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sat 19-Jan-13 15:51:13

I eat both cabbage and broccoli, I don't think it sounds trite at all. I'd lumped 'vegetables' into one category of my 10-15 safe foods. The only notable vegetables I don't eat are mushrooms, potatoes and swede. I worked out that, counting 'vegetables' as one, I actually eat lentils, chickpeas, kidney beans, vegetables, soya milk, coffee granules, tinned tomatoes, tomato puree, most herbs and spices, bananas, and very occasionally, brown rice. There are potentially other things I could incorporate, but those are the things I feel comfortable eating. I think that's reasonably healthy.

Being so open on here is making me really paranoid. I'm already worried about being watched, despite me knowing it's an unrealistic fear. I keep my curtains closed all the time so people can't see in. This level of social interaction is exhausting, to be honest. I feel horrible for using up people's time, especially when they're giving it freely. I'm sorry for being so annoying and draining.

I'm incredibly grateful for the amount of time people have spent talking to, and helping, me. I wish I could be that kind and thoughtful, instead of self-centred and lacking in empathy. Talking about these things makes it incredibly apparent that I am a drain; a leech. I am useless, pointless, and I have achieved nothing. I know that talking is supposed to help, but all it does is emphasise to me that the sooner I kill myself, the better.

chipmonkey Sat 19-Jan-13 21:53:29

Kiki, I classed my upbringing as normal; now that I am an adult I can see that although my upbringing was relatively normal, there were aspects of it that weren't.My mother was intermittently negligent, my father was occasionally over-critical. At other times they were fine. It could well be that certain aspects of your childhood have affected the way you think of yourself. Also, I agree with Xenia that sometimes it's chemical. In the same way that diabetes is a chemical problem, so are depression and other mental disorders.
Be persistent. Doctors are as lazy as anyone else. (No disrespect to any doctors!) They won't pursue you to see if meds or counselling are working. You have to let them know if it's not.
Also, age is truly only a number.
If human beings all had six fingers on each hand, more than likely our "decades" would be 12 years long and you'd officially be 22! Don't base your life on arbitrary things like numbers!
You are already doing really well on diet and exercise. You can do better witb the other stuff too.

Xenia Sat 19-Jan-13 21:59:20

It is likely some people love you, relatives etc so I am sure you would be much more of a drain on them if they had to grieve you.

On the initial question there is a moral position that your body is not necessarily your own and that we don't have the right to take our own life. That thought might help you although I accept most people don't agree with that and many think they only have responsibilities to themselves.

The food sounds healthy (although I am an arch carnivore/eggs/fish advocate really). You aren't on junk foods and processed rubbish and white bread which most depression clinics etc recommend you give up and you're taking exercise. If you're doing all that and still want to be dead that suggests you probably need to keep on taking or have adjusted whatever you are on prozac etc.

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 01:53:07

what has your weight been like kiki? it's good to eat healthily, that's a brilliant start but do try and get some good fats into your diet too, which is hard if you're vegan. You do sound pretty restrictive though and is the exercise done to obsession? how do you feel if you don't do it?

I only ask because I have really struggled all my life with food/exercise, I was anorexic from childhood and am now a little overweight and I think the exercise thing for me is half because I want to be fit and strong and healthy and it makes me feel so much better afterwards, and is a touch pathological as well - I beat myself up if I don't do it. I haven't exercise since thursday and I feel awful about it, for example.

You're really not alone. I recognise a lot of myself in what you say - I HATE social interaction too, I really do avoid people and then I get more depressed, I even avoid people I actually want to see confused

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 01:55:07

and this is me ''well'' - but I have moments when I am happy- I am waffling now, sorry-

I suspect you are very intelligent, how are things in terms of career aspirations - or what do you actually enjoy doing? do you have a hobby that lights you up inside even if it's only a brief flicker of enjoyment?

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 01:56:42

evem if things seems completely out of reach, unattainable, even if you think youve completely f*d it all up- what did you once see yourself being like or doing in the future?

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sun 20-Jan-13 03:20:49

Thank you all, again, for replying to me.

The meds I'm on at the minute are the best I've been on. I have no side effects, and 90% of the time, I can get up when I wake up. I know there are countless ADs to try, but I hate taking meds as it is, and I've had some truly awful ones. I'm very reluctant to change them, and my doctor doesn't think there's any need to either. I've seen a psychiatrist quite recently too, who didn't change my medication.

My weight is kind of a touchy subject. I have a goal weight, which I have not yet attained. I have a small frame and I look fat at a "normal" weight. I don't really believe in the BMI scale, as the weight it claims is "normal" for me, is very heavy.
I don't think that I exercise obsessively. I definitely need to exercise daily, and I feel anxious if I don't do it. I always feel the need to 'make it up' over the next couple of days, so it evens out over the week. That's probably just another way that my anxiety manifests though.

I don't have career aspirations. I've been unemployed for so long that no-one is ever going to hire me to do anything meaningful. All the things that I would like to do, are probably unattainable. I'd really rather not think about them, when I know that they won't happen.
I don't really have any hobbies. Nothing really interests me anymore, which I know makes me sound incredibly boring. I just don't enjoy things very much.

God, I'm annoying myself with all this. I can only imagine how irritating and frustrating I am for everyone else. I wish I was someone completely different.

BoerWarKids Sun 20-Jan-13 06:35:50

ThisKiki, how are you this morning, did you get any sleep?

I just wanted to say that I can relate to so much that you've said. This quote really helped me. I'll try to write more later x

"You are not just here to fill space or be a background character in someone else's movie. Consider this: nothing would be the same if you did not exist. Every place you have ever been and everyone you have ever spoken to would be different without you. We are all connected, and we are all affected by the decisions and even the existence of those around us." David Niven.

mancshell Sun 20-Jan-13 11:08:24

please dont hurt yourself things always get better

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 11:45:02

Kiki, you sound very much like me, keep a log of what exercise I do and so on in my head and if I miss a couple days get really really grumpy and then do 3, 4, 5 hours in a day. But this is actually to the detriment of my course and social life, as I have been known to pass up normal things in order to 'make it up'. It's not a healthy mindset. A healthy mindset (which I have 80% of the time on this subject) is to do it when I have time to do it, to rule it rather than it ruling me. I used to be very under- and my target weight made me very heavy like a heffalump, I am small framed and I thought my 'target' was at least a stone over what it should be. Now I can see that no, the only reason I felt like that was because I had such anxiety about other stuff that there was this uncomfortableness at being that normal size, not having the jutting bones etc etc- I risk oversharing probably but now I can see that actually, that weight was a low weight. A BMI of 20 or 21 is a low weight, honestly. I think it can sometimes feel stifling if you have to gain weight to get to that point and then don't give time for that weight to redistriute, which can take about a year.

I know it might be painful to think about but you indicate that you do have things you once wanted to do- please could you share some of them with us?

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 11:49:58

Boer- that quote is absolutely true! My sister really doesn't like me (she's much younger, a half sister) and I said to her - do you realise, if I hadn't been born you would never exist, we'd have never moved here, etc etc. That shut her up momentarily! But it's true, every day you touch lives - you mould experiences- every day. The world has been and is a better place because of you Kiki even if you can't see it from your darkness.

Xenia Sun 20-Jan-13 15:14:42

So the drugs are working better than any before and most days you can get up. That's better than it might be.

There are lots of things for hobbies and for work you can do without ever leaving the house but it's a question of wanting to do them.

You could even write a book about your feelings. There are various good self publishing sites even on line - a 17 year old girl who was featured in this week's Times has gone terribly well with her book on there.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sun 20-Jan-13 17:04:05

Thank you all for the responses.

I think that David Niven quote is very true. When I apply it to myself though, I feel quite guilty. I feel like I inflict myself upon others. I do think that it would be more positive were I not here, because my presence is a drain on others. I know that's because I hate myself, and I view everything about me negatively, but I just can't comprehend that the effect I have, might be positive.

I don't think I'm ruled by exercise at all. This is possibly because I don't have many other constraints on my time; I have no social life, I don't work, etc. I feel flabby if I do go a day without it, but I think that's natural. When my BMI was 20, I both looked and felt fat. I've just worked out that my current BMI is 17.8, and I think that's supportive of the fact that the BMI scale just doesn't work for everyone. It's a good general indication, but I neither look nor feel underweight. If anything, I'm on the larger side.

I have no real interest in hobbies, a lot of the problem is that I lack the energy/desire to find any. I have a habit of getting really obsessively interested in something for a short period of time, then I get bored of it and stop. Whenever I've tried to 'pick up' previous hobbies, I just find them so draining and frustrating that I end up throwing them away.
I don't think I'd want to write a book, the risk of someone I knew/know reading it would be terrifying. My written English isn't to the standard I would want it to be either. Other than my incessant whinging, I don't really have a great deal to say.
I do think it's a good idea, though I'd be more inclined to try writing fiction (if I had a bit more of an imagination) and not attempt any kind of publishing.

I know how that paragraph reads, and I'm not intentionally trying to be difficult. I know that I need to put the effort in to get anything out, and my lack of energy/desire isn't an excuse. Perhaps it's because I don't deserve to do nice things, or find things I enjoy. Perhaps it's just because I'm inherently boring and don't have interests.

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 17:26:30

I suspect you're very tiny but cannot see it, and rather, do not feel it. Do you hate yourself to the point where you like to feel aches after a workout or dislike feeling full after a meal? Do you get scared of the concept of being happy because actually you don't think you deserve it?

I'm also a stopper and starter, unfortunately- it's just how I can be, completely utterly obsessed with something one minute and then I drop it and don't revisit it. But while you're there- you're great at it aren't you? I imagine you're really rather bright which can be a curse, you get bored too easily and are perfectionistic and very hard on yourself.

You'd like to be a writer, or have contemplated it? It's not surprising that's not far off the ground because it's very very hard but by no means is it impossible. I love to write and have often thought I should write a book (non fiction though) but it's just the getting started that is so difficult. I have a friend from school she was very troubled herself dropped out started a course, dropped out, moved back in with parents, lives somewhere very isolated, but she has slowly but surely started writing a book. She sent me some parts of it maybe 3 or 4 years ago- I was astounded at her talent. She has now written a trilogy- but again she is hesitant about publication (hasn't even tried). It has filled her with a real sense of accomplishment though, she is very very gifted and it's a solitary thing she can do without anyone else being there, which suits her very much. Have you ever thought about courses etc? Do you live in a city?

I think that through your self hatred you are selling yourself short. You are filled with potential. Don't throw it away. Gradually open the door to it, even if it's only 20 mins here, 20 mins there.

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 17:27:22

have you ever tried CBT?

Xenia Sun 20-Jan-13 18:37:00

You just type. I wrote 30 books. It's not hard but then I'm virtually always happy and think I'm good at things (however deluded that might be). The issue here is not being happy really, that is what saps everything. I wake up with 1000 things I would love to do every day and only get a few done and I very very lucky that is so.

So the current pills seem to be helping a bit, don't they? If you don't want to leave the house or work what about helping others? Too many people spend ages just looking into themselves which is actually a morally dubious selfish act. What about thinking how today can I help someone else and forget about self entirely, just try to give give give (and that might be helping someone with words you write on line, charitable stuff on websites etc) and you would find how much of value you have to give. You could even help those who are fat (which is about 60% of the UK population) get thinner as it sounds like it's one of your many expert areas. You could even set that up as a business on line giving advice. Loads of people want an on line diet mentor of some sort.

I suppose we just get back to the differences between those who are mentally well and brimming with enthusiasm and those who feel sad and fed up all the time and it's just a huge effort even to get dressed, never mind plan a load of schemes.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sun 20-Jan-13 20:14:01

I always exercise to the point of aching, mainly because I thought that was what you were meant to do. I do hate feeling full, but I think a lot of people dislike that heavy, bloated feeling. I don't really understand what being happy would entail, but I know I don't deserve it. I am genuinely not tiny, and I doubt I ever will be. My goal weight is just one that means I will be relatively slim.

I don't want to be a writer. I just thought that Xenia's idea was a good one, though more as a hobby than a career path. I would like to go back to Uni, but while I'm this anxious, it's not an option as I don't feel able to leave the house. Distance learning is expensive, and would require me to be a lot more invested in it than I currently have the energy for. I live in quite a rural area.

I've had some CBT before. It was only for a few sessions (as with every other type of counselling/therapy I've tried), because I was terrible at it. It made me very panicked and paranoid, I couldn't vocalise most of what I thought and I was just, in general, useless at it. I never told the practitioner how bad it made me feel, but she must have picked up on it because she stopped the sessions.

Xenia, I do feel that the pills are working much better than any others I've tried, as I have no side effects with them. I have a massive distrust of medication, but I take them as I'm instructed to.

It's not that I don't want to work. I do. I am incredibly restricted in what I could do, when I can't cope with leaving the house or having a proper conversation with someone. I crumble under any form of pressure, and I would let down whoever was fool enough to employ me. However, I completely agree that I am selfish. I'm not going to go into whether or not I would be a helpful influence to people, because I'm just going to sound self-pitying and even more self-centred than I already do.

I don't think I am remotely qualified to help overweight people, when I'm not slim myself. I would be very scared of doing more harm than good if I tried to help anyone. That aside, it would be exhausting and I don't think I could maintain the social side of it for longer than a week or so.

You have so many ideas, I don't know how you manage to come up with them. I find it very overwhelming, but I agree that is the difference between someone who is mentally well and someone who isn't.

Thank you both again for the responses. I'm incredibly grateful for the time you've spent, even if I'm not very good at showing it.
I'm trying to be very objective and not bleat on about how I feel, but my mood is dipping a lot, and I think that talking so much isn't helping.

I'm going to stop posting, before I get completely emotional and despairing and pathetic (even though I know that's what my OP was, I feel like I should shut up now), because that will just be embarrassing and awkward for people to deal with. I am so, so grateful for how kind you have all been, and how patient. I know just how frustrating and hard to deal with I am.

There is such a wealth of advice here that I really hope can help someone else if they need it, and I'm going to print-screen the thread to re-read. Thank you all and I'm sorry for being a drain.

chipmonkey Sun 20-Jan-13 22:01:36

Kiki, you're not a drain. You seriously aren't. And don't ever think it's not worth while posting here. I think when we're in the depths of despair, it's easy to think that we're alone in the way we think and the way we are but there is always, always someone else who's felt the same.
We're here if you need us.

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 22:47:10

Kiki you are not a drain. If you want to talk, we are here. I have been in your shoes and know it's impossible to find a way out when you're there. I also know how young you are and how intelligent and full of potential you are. You're great at writing too. I worry about hw you manage your anxiety but as long as you stay okay and don't let it get the better of you, then there are worse ways. You say you want to go to back to uni- then maybe make some plans towards that. Honestly I do understand where you're coming from. I always wanted to go back to uni and study something else and I thought I never could, had no relevant ualifications etc etc. The pressure of having to be around these people as well- eurgh- I didn;t want to leave the tiny insular world of my office. But I did and I am a brighter happier person for it. I think, when you already feel as low as you do, there comes a time when you have to say to yourself 'what have I got to lose?' if you already hate your situation, try changing it- try new things - you will surprise yourself. I don't want to sound patronising. I absolutely understand you and I wish I could wave a magic wand. But please please make a list of things you'd like to do within the next year or couple of years, and slowly slowly we can make it happen. You are very special, very precious - we are bron into the world not into a town, not into a family unit- you are one person in the world who makes it so and you are absolutely entitled to be here and absolutely should try and do what you want while you're here.

I suspect your approach to your size manifests a little bit from a. wanting to punish yourself, you don't believe you deserve nice things and nice feelings, you would rather work out and feel pain than wrap up ina cosy blanket eating chocolates in front of a movie- and b. because it's easier to feel ''fat'' than all the rest of what you are really feeling underneath that, which is an absolutely heartbreaking emotional turmoil- of course it's easier to 'feel' fat (I'm not saying you have said this - but I think some of your feelings are similar to this)

CBT I think would be very helpful to you at some point in the future- challenging your automatic thoughts - NATs (everybody hates me, I am a waste of space, I'm a drain.. ) etc and asking you to come up with evidence and then rebut that.

ie. my NATs are usually something like - I'm such a failure (evidence - something like... I did not get an A* in maths, rebut that - well actually I have achieved x, y, z) or my boss hates me (evidence- he shouted rebuttal- it wasn't about you, it was about a meeting, he doesn't hate you he liked you that's why he made you permanent, promoted, said all the nice things) and so on and so on. It can be done written down- I found that more helpful than with a therapist when it felt false and silly as of course you know what they want you to say and you do not believe it yourself. If you write it down - NAT, evidence, challenge- in columns, by yourself, it might help you.

anyway I will stop rambling. Please please please if you do one thing- take this with you. You do not need to apologise so much, you apologise for existing. Nobody should have to say sorry for even existing. You WILL find a way forward, a crack of light in the darkness, I promise you.

ChicaT Thu 24-Jan-13 01:26:13

Hello again, this will be a quick post - I should be asleep but wanted to check how you were. Have you considered meditation? There are some really accessible easy to use meditation apps out there. I've found that they really help calm my mind, and make my mind stronger when faced with depression. I'm currently using Headspace which is a little programme of 10-minute guided meditations, the idea is to do one a day (though I forget sometimes, don't beat yourself up if you do too!). Very gentle voice and only warmth and guidance, it's very easy. Another one are the guided meditations from Andrew Johnson - he has a whole set which address different issues from social phobia to inspiring confidence to getting fit. He has an incredibly soothing voice. You don't have to do anything - even just put the app on while you're in bed about to fall asleep. It can only make you feel better, and I promise it doesn't hurt! It's also something you can easily do in your own home where you feel safe. I also recommend the website Mindapples. A couple of friends of mine with direct experience in serious mental health issues have been heavily involved in it - it's a great organization and a very simple concept. Check out their website for a better explanation than I can give while sleepy! And finally have you thought about trying reflexology or Bach flower remedies? My reflexologist prescribes the flower remedies and I found the anti-anxiety ones quite helpful. Reflexology is very gentle and calming and the therapists are terribly caring. And there are many who will come to you so again you can stay where you feel safe. Take care and remember you can always come here if you need support and a bit of love, any time.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Fri 25-Jan-13 22:02:34

I wasn't going to post again, but I feel far too guilty for not thanking people who've posted since I last did. So, thank you for taking the time to be so helpful. I really appreciate how thoughtful and kind you all are.

ChicaT, I've tried meditation in the past, but never 'properly'. It's always just been from reading on websites how to do it, then doing it myself. I must have been doing it wrong, because I found it very distressing. I need to keep my mind occupied, because so many of the thoughts I have are intrusive and overwhelming. The fact that you need to effectively wipe your mind to meditate meant that the intrusive (anxious/hateful) thoughts were too much for me to deal with.
I don't have access to anything with apps, but I'll have a look for mp3 versions.

I use Rescue Remedy sometimes. I always take it when I have to go outside, though that's quite rare. I don't feel like it does much physically, but it doesn't hinder, so I keep on taking it. I've not had anything like reflexology, mostly because I can't bear people touching me.

I don't feel like it would be right of me to keep on posting, but I felt horribly rude for not saying thank you.

aufaniae Sun 27-Jan-13 21:08:20

Kiki, you are not a drain. Mumsnet is a support site (among the chit chat!), and many of us come here when we need support of one kind and another.

Lovely of you to say thank you, but please do feel you can come here to talk whenever you need to.

Hope you're feeling well today xx

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Mon 28-Jan-13 01:32:22

Thank you.

I don't think it's right that I keep on posting because the only way out of this, is dying. I don't have the energy for anything else. I'm exhausted and empty, and I've had enough.

I realise how pathetic that sounds, and I'm sorry for it. I don't think I should inflict myself on people, especially when there's nothing anyone can do.

aufaniae Mon 28-Jan-13 07:53:07

Kiki one of my best friends felt as low as you do a few years ago. I won't go into the detail but she very nearly did kill herself.

She is a different person today, only a few years later. She's happy, enjoying life.

One of the things that has helped is getting her meds right. She says it felt so clear to her at the time that everyone would be better off without her, but looking back it's absolutely clear this was the illness making her think that.

It may seem like pie in the sky now, but I promise you the only way out is not dying. You are unwell, and that is the illness talking. There is a future where you are happy and well and look back on feeling like this as a dark period in your life which is firmly in tha past!

Please, talk to your doctor about how you are feeling. It can't hurt.

And please, keep talking to us!

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Mon 28-Jan-13 15:04:30

Thank you for replying.

I can't see things changing. This is pretty much how they've always been.

I'm seeing my GP next week. I don't know how much I can tell her though. Last time I tried, she told me to speak to the OT. I don't trust the OT, and I can't possibly talk to her about SH/suicidal stuff.
I'm scared if I say too much to the GP, she'll put me in hospital. I've admitted to being suicidal to her, but never dared to admit that I have a plan and the means to carry it out.

I'm trying to write about this as unemotionally as I can, and it's not working. My head is alternating between panic, screaming at me, and a horrible emptiness. Sorry, I know I sound utterly pathetic.

aufaniae Mon 28-Jan-13 15:16:21

You don't sound pathetic at all. You sound like someone experiencing an awful illness.

Why are you scared to go into hospital? My friend did (as a voluntary patient. She was basically given the choice of admitting herself or being sectioned). I have no idea if hospital itself helped or not, but the care she received overall definitely helped. I know she's much better now.

What do you have to lose by admitting how you are feeling?

GooseyLoosey Mon 28-Jan-13 15:17:40

ThisKiki, I too suffer from anxiety, although not I think to the same degree as you (at least not at the moment).

My greatest fear is dying and having some terrible illness. Like you, the anxiety has at times worn me down to the point when death seems almost a preferable alternative.

However, last time around I woke up to the absurdity of this. How can being dead possibly be better than the fear of death? If I am at the point of welcoming death, there is no basis on which to fear it. I found that this line of reasoning helped at lot when the anxiety was at its worst.

I would also say, that when I am at my worst, I see someone a lot more frequently than every couple of months. I found it helped just to know that someone was looking out for me.

Dying is not a way out.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Mon 28-Jan-13 15:51:50

The idea of hospital terrifies me. Partly because of the stigma of having it on my medical records, partly because of how social it is. I couldn't cope with being around people all the time. As stupid as it sounds, I don't think I could manage to shower/wear make-up every day.
The other thing is that it would take away what control I have, over things like food/SH/general routines. I have a really intense need to be in control.

Goosey, I understand about the fear of dying. I go through phases when it terrifies me, then I return to the default of wanting to die. Completely nonsensical. I do get very worried over a lot of health issues, but it's more about the effects of the disease, than dying itself for me.

I usually see the OT once a month. I haven't seen her since November, because she was busy over Christmas and new year. To be honest, seeing her doesn't really help yet (I've only seen her a handful of times), so I don't feel like I need to see her more frequently. I know my GP wouldn't mind seeing me more often, but I feel awful for using up her time this much as it is.

Thank you both for replying, I'm sorry for being so useless.

GooseyLoosey Tue 29-Jan-13 09:06:54

How are you feeling this morning?

lizba Tue 29-Jan-13 11:07:41

Morning Thiskiki, how are you feeling today? I hope you've had a better night

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Tue 29-Jan-13 15:07:45

Thank you both for asking.

Last night wasn't exactly great; everything always feels worse at night, doesn't it? I'm not a very good sleeper, it's always either too little or too much. Couldn't stop crying for most of the night, then kept going back to SH. I normally have a feeling of "that's enough" when I've SH'ed, but that just didn't happen last night.

Just feel horribly low now. Sorry for whining so much.

I'm sorry I haven't read te thread, I will when I have the time
I just wanted to tell you that I have just a few mintes ago learnt of someone we know having committed suicide
He had a 2 month old baby, a lovely wife and family
We are devestated for them
And I also now have to explain to my son what has happened

Suicide , although tempting an believe me when I tell you how tempted I've been, has such an effect on other people and I know it's hard to see that when you feel so bad and when you honestly believe that they would be better off without you
But the truth is your loved ones and friends and family would rarer have you around, even if you are a bit broken

Please stay strong and reach out for some help x

Tobermory Tue 29-Jan-13 15:20:54

Kiki, just found your thread and wanted to say 'hi'. It sounds like life is hard for you right now but it's good that you are posting.

I can relate to some of what you are describing though not all. But I do understand how bleak things can seem, how it feels to feel despair, fear and miserable.

How is your day so far?

GooseyLoosey Tue 29-Jan-13 15:28:37

Nights can be terrible. I have a large aray of audio books that I listen to a night just to stop me thinking about things. Have you tried anything to distract you at night?

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Tue 29-Jan-13 16:36:21

Thank you all for replying.

Korma, I'm very sorry for your loss. I don't have any friends, and very few family, none of whom I'm particularly close to, but I do take your point.

My day could be better. I just don't have the energy to do anything. I've exercised, though I need to do more. I have this really intense feeling of dread, and I can't shift it. All I keep hearing in my head is how pointless this all is.

I'm a bit rubbish at distraction. I have a really short attention span and struggle to concentrate. Normally I watch short programmes, or play online games. Because so many of the thoughts I have are intrusive, I don't really know how to tune them out. I know this sounds bad, but SH is probably the main thing that helps, so I do it daily.

Middy86 Tue 29-Jan-13 21:16:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Tue 29-Jan-13 23:25:18

I'm sorry you feel this way too Middy. It's awful, and I hate to think of other people suffering.

I wish there was some way I could just stop everything. I feel so empty it physically hurts. The only time I'm not feeling completely drained and empty, is because I'm either panicking about something or feeling so sad I can't breathe. There truly is no point to any of this.

Bakingnovice Tue 29-Jan-13 23:50:26

Kiki there is a point to it all. The point is you. Your life. Your future. Please stay and fight for you. No one else can do that for you. You owe it to yourself.

whethergirl Wed 30-Jan-13 00:06:38

ThisKiki, there must be another type of medication that will work better for you. I know how you feel about meds, I was exactly the same until I was well again. Looking back, my paranoia about meds was part of my mental health problem.

It doesn't always have to be like this. I'm sorry you feel you have lost all hope, but you need to know that this is how you feel, it's not how the world really is.

I nearly killed myself about 15 years ago. I truly believed things couldn't get better. I truly believed that people who knew me would be better off without me and that they didn't love me anyway - which is not true. At one point, I could not see myself ever leaving the house.

Now I feel shit if I CAN'T leave the house and get a bit of fresh air. I have a gorgeous ds and I am studying at uni. I would never have believed I could have a normal life.

ThisKiki, please, take my word for it, how you describe yourself - it's not true. Your illness is making you see things in a certain way. I don't want you to feel any pressure by telling you the positive traits I can pick up about you. But just know that no-one is totally worthless, no-one is totally perfect. You are just like us, with a mix of appealing and not so appealing traits. You are not that special, that you are completely worthless are you? I'm sure even Hitler had his good points! On that note, there are people out there that have done terrible things to others. Some of them may also have mental health problems. At least you don't take it out on other people. Can you at least see that as a good point?

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Wed 30-Jan-13 00:29:27

Thank you both. I'm sorry, I'm just being pathetic and whiny.

It is good that I wouldn't take it out on another person physically. I'm pretty sure I do emotionally though. That could easily be part of why all the MH professionals I've seen have dropped me.

Maybe there is a different med that would work better. I've tried a few, but by no means all of them. I can't bear the thought of having to be on a cocktail of medication just to feel 'normal'. It's too fake.

I just don't think I'm worth the effort. This has just gone on for too long and I am fundamentally useless now. I'm never going to have a decent job because no-one is going to hire someone who's been out of work for so long without a good reason. Even if there was some way to be completely mentally healthy, I'm still going to be me, and the future is still going to be empty because of how long I've been this way.

I'm sorry for being such an insufferable whinge-bag. Trust me, I know how difficult and ridiculous I sound. Please don't feel like you have to tolerate me when I'm being this annoying.

whethergirl Wed 30-Jan-13 11:00:14

Ok, I'm going to be completely honest. None of what I'm about to say is designed to make you feel better, I'm just going to give you my honest opinion.

I don't think you're being pathetic and whiny. I wouldn't be here if you were, I hate pathetic and whiny. There's a difference between that, and someone actually suffering and sharing that. And even if you were being pathetic and whiny then so what? I am pathetic and whiny every month with PMT!

Yes, you probably are a bit of an emotional drain. I know I was when I wasn't well, especially with my dp at the time. So? Plenty of people are emotionally draining, even without mental health problems. My best friend can be totally emotionally draining and drives me nuts sometimes but I still love her to bits. It doesn't make sense that MH professionals would drop you for that reason, it's their JOB to handle emotionally draining people!

I've been on ADs for years and in no way do I feel fake. I feel like myself. I felt abnormal when I wasn't taking them. It's an illness and I have a responsibility to myself to take medication for it. I forget about it most of the time tbh. People do all sorts of things because they want to be happier. Some people drink every night, some people take recreational drugs, some weight lift until their muscles are huge, some people eat all the time, some clean obsessively. You're on meds anyway, what would be the difference, may as well take some that work. However, I know this is a delicate subject and we do need to be very careful with ADs as it can be difficult to monitor how you are going to react. I just think that, because you said you were happy with the meds you were on, I should point out that if you're feeling the way you do, to the point where suicide seems to be the only option, then I would doubt they are actually working for you?

I'm never going to have a decent job because no-one is going to hire someone who's been out of work for so long without a good reason. Not true at all! There are plenty of people who have been out of work for years for so many reasons! You only need to get one job, any job, to start working again to become employable again. I don't mean get a job now, I'm just trying to show you that at the moment, you have a warped view of the world, that just isn't accurate. It's better than how you see it.

Anyway, you need to take one step at a time, and getting a job is too many steps away. Don't worry so much about the future. Everything you do now can build towards a brighter future. Even if it's walking through the park the next time you go to the docs and sitting on the bench for a while. Or coming on MN to offload. Or writing a message on mn without checking it and pressing send (like many of us do)! Then cringe at what you've written and realise it's not the end of the world. Every little step you take, you will be rewarded, I don't know how but the universe just works like that.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Wed 30-Jan-13 15:10:35

Thank you for your honesty. I know I'm a drain, and in a way, it's helpful to have others confirm it. So often people lie and say that I'm not.

I would change ADs. I'm wary of changing simply because of the side effects. I just don't want to go down the route of taking another augmentative med, because it never stops at just one. There is another reason that I don't want to take more meds, paranoia-related.

I try not to worry about the future, but I'm not very good at it. It feels very heavy and bleak, and it tends to creep into my thoughts. I know I need to work on ignoring it.

whethergirl Wed 30-Jan-13 23:38:07

Some people might just not find you emotionally draining. And even if they do, and lie about it, it's probably because they care about you.

I was also very paranoid about taking AD's but it was only after taking them I realised the paranoia was very much of my illness.

We all worry about the future. It's natural. However, as well as worry, it's usually mixed with some hope. Others have been in your shoes and then carried on to have happier, functional lives. That is something you can hope for. It's not impossible even though it might just feel it right now.

whethergirl Thu 31-Jan-13 12:58:10

How you feeling today ThisKikiIsMarvellous? Be honest, I'm expecting that it's probably not great! How is your day going?

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