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This fear that social services will come and take your children...(543 Posts)
...it worries me!
There seem to be so many women out there who are afraid to seek help for depression and other problems out of fear that they will lose their children.
I have just asked MNHQ if they would consider doing something with this. Because surely if so many of us fear to lose our children something is going wrong somewhere! Surely we should all be albe to seek help with confidence?
What are your thoughts on this? I struggle with PTSD and even told my doctor that I tended to keep emotional distance from my ds when he's ill without even considering the possibility of that having repercussions.
i like what ninanina has to say !!x
Hi all, im new to this site, i was wondering if anyone could give me a little advice? please don't have a go at me for the ages of the parents and tell me how irresponsible they are, yes i agree they were but they need my support now not my condemnation. i refuse to turn my back on my kids just cause they messed up. ok here goes.
My 15 yr old son has gotten his 15 yr old friend pregnant, rather than use names i will refer to them as ds and child B.
Child B's mum is totally non supportive, when child B refused to abort threatened her with care, her mother is now and saying she can stay home but the baby can not go back and live there once it is born.
child B is under SS anyway for another matter, but they keep telling her if she don't do this that etc they will take her baby, we have all had long discussions and it has been agreed by both soon to be parents that once the baby is born it will come to live with me my husband and ds and his brother, i was happy for child B to come to but she wants to stay at home.
We have also discussed my husband and I or just me being appointed legal guardian until they are of an age they can care for the baby.
SS told her yesterday that she could go into a mother and baby unit but if she was to do that she would not be allowed to just take the baby out for walks etc without gaining permission first, nor would my ds be allowed to visit without first making an appointment, he would not even allowed to meet up with her if she was to be allowed to take the baby out.
They are really bulling her, saying if she don't answer her phone when they call, attend every and all meetings and participate fully, answer every and all questions immediately when asked they will take her baby. basically if she don't jump through all their hoops with bells on she is going lose her baby.
They also told her yesterday she cant just allow the baby to live with us and ds unless she allows us to adopt it or gets a residence order, as far as i am aware, as i have been through the courts for residence orders with my ex, a natural parent does not need a residence order if both parents are in agreement where said child resides, now i know my ds has no parental rights until the little one is born and he has his name placed on the birth certificate but they are going on as if he is not going to be involved or allowed to be.
I will make sure he takes responsibility as a father should. i refuse to allow him to be like his father was.
We have sought legal advice but are being told nothing can be done until the baby is born, argh by then SS will have done their assessments and will have applied to the courts or what ever devious things they do for orders to take the baby cause lets face it they probably have a list a mile long for couples already assessed and approved to adopt a newborn, it will be adopted within the hour, I wouldn't be surprised if they already have someone lined up.
They will likely have a child protection order and place the baby on their at risk register before its born so it makes it easier for them to just take him or the slightest infraction, they want to come and do an assessment on my home to make sure its suitable and we have enough room, we live in a 3 be home with my husband and me ds and his brother, the council homed us here with 2 adults and 5 children 2 girls and 3 boys so how can they say we wont have enough room? god i'm so scared i'm crying whilst trying to explain all this.
I am trying to arrange for them to attend parenting classes as ss said they will be assessing them on their parenting skills and if deemed not good enough they will take the baby, well they wont have any "skills" will they? we are not born with them, no one really knows how to be a parent, its all learnt through trial and error and help from others.
Both these kids, because they are still kids, can be wonderful parents with the right support, why should they have to lose their baby cause they are 15? we are off to CAB this morning but i know they are just going say get a solicitor, argh i have tried. i want to be appointed legal guardian before the baby is born in order to do this i need a solicitor.
We have already purchased everything the baby will need just need to get baby milk, so when they do their "visit" we can sow we are prepared this little one is not going to want for anything.
Has anyone been in this situation can they help me with anything i have mentioned.
Thank you in advance x
Angels, can't offer any advice other than to say, I would re-post this in relationships or chat where there's more chance of it being seen.
I don't know if this reply is to a certain post but I have done a lot of research on ss targets for adoption I was abused as a child and they clearly said to me that because my parents asked for help when I was a child when I had children I was a easy target coz who wants damaged children its to much paperwork there reason for taking my children was risk of emotional harm in future coz of past circumstances the year my twins were adopted there was 27000 children adopted in england and the legal aid solicitors are paid to lose look up ian josephs if u want to see the facts for urselfs its a disgrace but none of us can go papers coz we all have a gagging order apparently good luck to all stay strong and get as much info as poss and anyof u that are fighting ss represent urselfs
Ss might not all be bad but I have never come accross a good one and they been in my life for 14 years they twist things lie say ur manipulative when its them telling u things then denying it never tell them anything but ask gps for help 80% of ppl suffer with some sort of mental health problem they don't just pick anyone its normally if u are known to them or family is known to them don't be scared stay strong and level headed
Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
This is an enormous thread and I have read about half of it tbh.
I am currently feeling concerned about where my and my DS future may lie....we have been involved with SS very recently (at my request) for an assessment of needs (Section 23/24)...it is to determine what support we may be able to receive as a family, etc...re Direct Payments for organising my own befriender/activity companion for 1:1 with my DS, etc.
Now it is very hard reading (the report that has been generated by the SW)...it took several weeks of sessions in our home, answering many questions and it being recorded in SW notes, etc. I have been very honest, open and the SW has been all over my house looking, talking to my DS, etc in his room (which is a tip!...but how many 12yrs old have tidy organised bedrooms?)
I have a few times felt paranoid about what reprecussions this could all have for us... but my friends, etc are all reassuring me that this will not be used against me or become something out of my control, so to speak...that I am and have always been a great mum and nobody could fault me, etc..I remain very troubled by this report though and can see how it could be twisted and used against me too.
I do wonder that 'things' may be working to become negative for me as a mother and that my DS could be seen as vulnerable within my care. He has ASD/ADHD, Dyslexia, poor very restricted diet, terrible sleep issues. I suffer depression and on anti-d's and do feel quite overwhelmed, stressed and unable to address every issue for us alone. We have never had any support with these things depiste my asking for help for years and never getting any. DS is suffering extreme anxiety and now taking meds and not attending ms school and is now at home 24/7 with me. We are hanging on for a specialist school placement decision being made....
The SW actually argued with me when I explained that I was planning to request all school files, med records for us both, etc in my determination to highlight the inadequacies of the 'system' and the lack of specialist support, assessments, etc that have never been done, etc. That I may need to appeal the panel decision about school provision and go to tribunal and the more info I have for a lawyer...the better my case will stand up, etc....and she actively continued to dissuade me from doing this for 20mins, until I called her on it and asked why she was trying to do this at all????..her reply...well, you have an awful lot on your plate and I wonder it isn't good for you to be trying to do this.!!!???The SW also phoned my advocate and was seemingly very suspicious of the advocates involvement with me and my advocate was very polite and stated her role and gave no further info...my advocate phoned me to advise the SW had done this and she felt it had been quite a strange/strained convo.
TBH...I'm really not sure what may be going on at the moment...everyone involved with us has stopped being in contact and I've not heard from SW or anyone in over a week now (where previously I was in contact daily/weekly with them all)....
Paranoia or sound minded concern?....which would you be feeling???
I have now been able to make contact with 2 proffessionals outwith my situation and they are both coming to visit me this week to advise, support and give me clarification...if need be... advocacy too. Already by email and phone they have both been very supportive and given me sources of help and advice which nobody else has.
I have a very strong feeling that I need to take control of what is feeling like a possible runaway train for us....but at the same time I wonder if I am being paranoid...I suppose time will tell...and should I be concerned about even posting this on here when I know from others that 'some' of these people I may be involved with could follow my posts if they realise who I am here????...more paranoia maybe??...not sure about this either
Well i have read this entire thread after being directed here by a poster.
I'm not even shocked. Or surprised.
But i won't comment much, i have my own thread.
I will say though, that SS in my case had DD in voluntary care
I went to get her back
They said i hadn't 'let them know' which i didn't HAVE to as it was voluntary
The police came and served a PPO they didn't even know what for, just that they had been told to serve one. When pressed their reason was that a bruise had been found on DD's back
As stated in my own thread, i had rubbed the 'bruise' from DD's back in front of the sw, and police officer plus a number of other professionals
As soon as the 'physical abuse' threshold collapsed, they turned to emotional abuse and neglect
They applied for an EPO it was not granted, so they discussed with me outside court letting DD stay with them while they arranged 'support services' and i had to sign paperwork stating i wouldn't take her, not have contact, until they had sorted it all out
A few days later i was served with interim care order papers, they had tried to do it ex parte and failed
The best thing to happen to the sw who was the accuser and also the investigator was the contact we had where she was frightened for her life by a snake. And pissed herself. I wish i had put it in her car. That is all.
Here is my thread
NanaNina, please stay away from my thread with your holier then thou's
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
The worst thing is, that if by some miracle you do win
You get no support following the return of your DC no matter how long they have been away
The SS are incredibly sore losers
It was stated to me 'if the interim care order is dismissed, DD will be returned to you without support, or the specialist counsellor we are paying for, she will not be returned over a period of time allowing for gradual reintroduction, she will simply be returned
What kind of shit is that?
They set you up to fail
Basically they would just return a child who could have been away for a year or more, who would be emotionally damaged by the very intervention supposed to be aimed at preventing harm, and you're just expected to 'get on with it'
Disgusting, disgusting people/organisation both before, during and after
I hate to be well so obvious, but when the entire town is owned by POLICE and 160 people keep paying only themselves for years and help only themselves eventually someone like me will come along and make it obvious that basically knowing me is like knowing you have one foot out the door already. Sorry for my bad behaviour but if good behavior is bad behaviour and all you ever known is constantly erased daily by someone that " Knows Better " eventually you get depressed. I am not accusing anyone of anything and know that I am literally at a place where the environment is designed to make the most successful intelligence compasionent well meaning males feel neglected, frustred, and feel as if there is no hope at a normal life one were the marriage is a possibility, a family in the future stability and hell why not through in a internet with SMTP access hell that would take the cake even if I put a file in it.
Sad to read all the stories here. Someone in my family had her child removed at birth as partner has significant mental health problems. She was then accessed of having problems herself and had to see a Psychiatrist to prove otherwise. She was cleared of that but now Children's services saying she has personality problems. We are fighting to prevent forced adoption of this child. I am sorry to say most peoples encounter with Children's services is negative and hostile. In our case they have lied on oath,covered errors and it is impossible to converse with them as they are so aggressive and hostile in their communication with you. This person only allowed to see her child in contact.
We have been told by 3 barristers we have had that part of the problem is that we are a white middle class family and c services are not used to being challenged. however that makes our position even harder and I just don't know if we will win this child bk.
For those doubters I can assure you that since this happened it has been an enormous, traumatic ,painful learning curve. I have discovered that the local authority gets £18,000 minimum for each child adopted. Last year for example Norfolk made £1.4million in adoption bonus fees(not the LA we are fighting). It is a national scandal and also authorities are set targets for adoption figures.When Blair wrote into policy that children in care should be adopted to avoid situations where older children were spending their lives there, (targets of 50 per cent), what has actually happened is that the adoption rate for 7s and over has plummeted where as the adoption rate for babies has exploded, a new born infant is an unsoiled commodity. It is only that I have been forced to fight that I have discovered this information at all!
Now for some advice.1 Record in writing every conversation you have , whom was there dates and times 2. If you are going to write letters get someone to proof read everything-spelling grammar, avoidance of hostility, sticking to fact, whilst trying to avoid accusation.3. Do an access to records request and see your medical notes BEFORE they are released to professionals for assessment writing. Discuss them with your GP/practice manager and request parts of them are destroyed if appropriate, some GPs only keep last 10yrs on record. 4. Be willing to complain,but always go to top. 5 Do not involve c services with yr family unless there is real risk to a child as most likely u will lose yr child. 6.if you can have a solicitor outside yr immediate local authority.7. consult yr mp, more are only just becoming aware that this is happening. If your experience of your social worker is so appalling, consider a formal complaint to their governing body the health care and professions council (england) you will need yr notes from point 1 for this. I am not against all SWs, I have several friends whom are SWs , but none of them work for children's services!
However can I also say that cmht's are supportive and should be there to help people with significant depression etc. It is not your fault you are ill and with the right support you can make an excellent recovery. None of the sw i worked with professionally were like the law unto themselves that are children's services.
Try to help yourself with a good diet and exercise(watch food hospital on treating depression with diet) talk to a trusted friend or partner. Try not to give yourself a hard time. Just start by spending 10 mins a week doing something you love. If you have a CPN talk through w
my girlfreind suffers severly from mental health and social is threatnin us to take our son because we have arguments somtimes we split up for two days and social saying if we get back then shes taking our son any1been in this situation and no wat to do ???
Hi dudez. I know you have been advised to post here, as I have just come across from the Mental Health board.
But tthread is quite old.
If i were you, I think I would start your own thread in chat. I had a look, but couldnt really find another much more suitable place than chat.
I am suffering PND but I would never dream of going to get help as I am too scared about a HV finding out and contacting SS. I would only get help if I was damaging my family, but my DP is happy and my DS is healthy, happy and gets a lot of love from myself and everyone around him.. but I just can't risk SS getting involved and lying/bending the truth just because I feel down.
I started a thread about this recently to make sure my advice to people to go to the GP with PND was still up to date and correct.
I went to to my gp days after a natural miscarriage for a sick note
I was told Hv would come and "assess the situation at home"
Er no thanks
I went back to work, bleeding heavily to 11 hour shifts
Just realised this in in mental health
If you have a mental health problem and social services have NEVER been involved that must mean that you either have a recognised condition and have taken the necessary action to get your health under control, therefore your health does not pose a risk to your child ( if this is the case then very well done :-) ) or that you sought help for yourself and you were told that you were perfectly healthy ( problem solved, again well done :-) ) However if you are one of the many that KNOW that you have a problem and you are avoiding health services as you are worried that this may impact on your child by a possibilty of having the LA involved, stop for a minute and have a serious think. Is your illness impacting on your child right now? If it is then please take the positive steps to go to a GP and seek help for yourself, believe me the LA ( if they do get involved ) will see this as a positive that you sought help and self referred to health services. The LA will only take your child if they have actual evidence that you have ill mental health and have done nothing about it AND this has posed a serious risk to your Child's well being and safety. If you are curious about what services are out there for you and your family NEVER ask social services. Your Child's name WILL be put o a board for investigation about what services are available for a CHILD IN NEED. This will lead to assessments being done regarding your Child and family situation. ONLY do this if you have serious concerns for your family and need the intervention of your LA. If you are prepared for the fact that the LA may take steps to intervene and possibly over ride your Parental Responsibility temporarily and you have nothing to hide, you are open and honest and genuinely seeking help for what can be a permanent positive outcome once assessments are complete, then you should have no trouble.
For those experiencing difficulties at present - Always try to have a witness to any meetings that the LA arrange.
If a witness is not possible - do not record your Social Worker without consent this is ILLEGAL. You may ask and be clear that the conversation is being recorded if permission is given. If not keep written records and ask your Social WOrker to read through your copy of notes and sign if they will, if all is correct. If incorrect ask them to make amends to your notes.
Keep your house in top order for unannounced visits.
GET A GOOD SOLICITOR! It can be a difficult thing to do as many firms unfortunately see LA cases as their bread and butter. You take their advice, LA have more concerns, you need more legal help, stages in LA concerns have progressed to further action, you need more legal help.....and so forth. There are passionate solicitors out there that can help! Go with your gut instinct, meet with your potential legal rep and find a suitable person for the job before signing legal aid or paying your hard earned money! It is vital to your case. The LA will have the best solicitor, SC or QC if needed!
Ask questions - get replies. Emails are a good form of written record for evidence if needed, also letters. It is difficult to obtain this if difficult questions are asked, granted. Do not rely on a Social Worker keeping her word, some forget, some may twist words to go in their favour. If possible arrange an advocates meeting and have a legal representative speak for you and get the answers ( you can be present if you wish ). This is your only way of guaranteeing some sort of answer.
Contact you IRO ( Independent reviewing Officer ) This person is there to make sure that your voice is heard and that the LA is doing their job properly.
If all else fails and you definately feel a massive sense of injustice then you can go through complaints procedure ( internal ) Last resort would be to contact the ombudsmen. If you are in the clear your case will be sorted in no time. However, if you have something to hide then beware this route as any slight deceit will be uncovered and make your situation worse in the long run.
Never lie to protect. Be open and honest. If it all comes to court and you have done your best then despite a Social Workers report a judge can only grant on hard evidence. If you have been honest this will go in your favour in the justice system.
GOOD LUCK :-)
( My apologies for the HUGE POST!!! )!!!!
This is a documentary filmed by the Slovakian television about a case in which the SS took away two young children and forced them into adoption.
I cannot believe these kind of things are happening in the UK!! I think we have a reason to be afraid...
I am going through hell with lies with ss and am trying help the person running this site below who had nightmares as well. We are trying to collate lists of 'good solicitors- legal aid' who are not corrupt. If any of you know of any please pm so I can get a list going for the site. Any other ideas please let me know. This is going to be m mission in life to help anyone I can....
Hi guys, I have been involved with a mum where the SS have been attempting to take her baby from her. I can't go into the finer details, just to say that we have found an enormity of information in just 4 days. This website is excellent. www.forced-adoption.com he offers free legal advice.
Contact the offices of John Hemming MP http://www.fassit.co.uk/john_hemming_campaign.htm
If you need to instruct a solicitor DO NOT get one who comes recommended by the SS. This firm is highly recommended: http://www.brendanfleming.co.uk/
wakeupwakeup can I suggest that you do not contact the office of John Hemming (Lib MP for Yardley Birmingham). He does get involved with people who are involved with social services, but in fact he cannot do anything to help, because court proceedings are private and only the people involved with the case can be in the court. Also I have to tell you that he has been ordered out of court in one case and heavily criticised by a High Court Judge in another case. The high court judge wrote a comprehensive document in criticism of JH. I just think it's not fair on parents who are caught up in care proceedings because as JH is an MP they will naturally think he can help them and this isn't the case.
I haven't looked at the website yet but JH is not a lawyer and neither are any of his volunteers. You can of course choose not to believe me but JH has posted a great deal on MN about "forced adoption" though haven't seen him on here for ages. His posts are irrational and he never answers direct questions. I once asked him how many cases where he (or his volunteers) had been involved that the Judge decided that the child should be returned to the birthparents, and he said they didn't keep those numbers - yeah right!
Many many times social workers, lawyers, and barristers have been on threads where JH is posting, pointing out that what he is saying is untrue and giving details of the errors he is making but it makes no difference he just comes back with some random comment.
I just think it is an awful shame that people are scared to see their GP because of mental health problems. I have posted again and again to try to tell people that children cannot be removed from parents unless it can be proven in court that a child is at risk of significant harm, or likely to be at risk of significant harm. Please believe me that sws are not looking for children to be removed from parents. In fact given the huge budget cuts that are being made to public services, I understand that sws are not able to remove children from abusive parents because they don't have the funding to look after them. This of course is the fault of the government.
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