Springy I'm having horrible mood swings and turning into a bit of a monster . You have a lot more reason to be miserable, but tbh it's having a negative effect on my relationship with DH too.

My DH made me book an appointment at the doctors two weeks ago which is a week tomorrow (I refused to see anyone other that nice GP who I can actually talk to and I think she must be back packing round australia at present or something ) FWIW I don't think I have PND as most of the time I feel perfectly normal.

That you have gone off food isn't good, I find that tends to happen if I'm feeling a down/upset for whatever reason. I've been like that on a couple of occasions recently.

Nutty I didn't realise that things were that bad for you too .

springy Make an appointment with your gp or hv and just ask to do the PND test. It's not always accurate as I think alot does depend on your actually personality but it can be a key to find the best means of support for you. It doesn't necassarily mean you will be put on AD's or anything like that, if that's what you're worried about. There are other eans of treating these things. You might even find just a relaxed chat once a week with hv helps a great deal. She can also contact homestart for you who can send someone into your home to help, chat, go to park with, go shopping with etc. Might also be worth looking into.

Hello again Springy

I x-posted.

Sorry to hear that you have gone off food. That is a terrible thing to happen to a person! (I love food) and sounds very like a sympton of depression. so I reiterate, yes please get medical help. but still.. there are often other things to think about.

Hi Springy,

I am not an expert in any way but here are some thoughts from someone who has spent some time thinking about things like this:

the health professionals are the best qualified people to treat mental health problems, so yes, consult them. however, they are not necessarily the best qualified to distinguish, in you, between feeling crap as a healthy person in crap circumstances, or feeling crap as a depressed person in any circumstances, or what point you are on in the continuum between the two.

To some extent it can sometimes be a personal decision on your part how you want to approach this. It can be useful in the short term to put it all in a box marked "mental health issues" and treat it like that if you are not able or currently willing to change certain aspects of your circumstances. Certainly there are some very difficult aspects of looking after a small baby that cannot be changed and I see that as being a significant component in the usefulness of the "mental health issue" approach - alleviating some of the crapness of how you feel without trying to change the world, which is impossible.

However, there may be some aspects of your circumstances you can change - now, soon, or further down the line - even perhaps some aspects of baby care (does your baby ever take a bottle, to give you a break? Is it possible with your baby to introduce or tweak a routine so that you have some fairly reliable sleep times, if you don't already? - just thoughts, I don't know, and all babies are different). I would guess - and this really is a guess as I am not a medical expert, nor do I know you - that your situation is one that may benefit from a real hard radical look at what there is in your life that is good, bad, or indifferent, and what there is in your life that is subject to change and what is not.

Part of the reason why I suggest this is that you seem, yourself, to be separating your negative feelings from your baby - as if you have already drawn a mental line between "things that make me feel crap" and "good things and ok things" and the baby is not on the crap side. Therefore I would suggest that you know in yourself this is not PND, or not just PND uncomplicated by other mental health issues or other life circumstances, but for various reasons it may be convenient to assume it is PND, and treat it as such; and as you have just had a baby, this "option" is open to you; and this is something that does not require you to question other things.

BTW, again as a total non-expert, I think there is nothing at all dysfunctional about not over-worrying about your baby - quite the opposite, that is a balanced attitude to congratulate yourself on.

Finally, I am not meaning to imply at all that PND or any other mental health issues are "optional" or simple - they are very very real and sadly not in slightest way chooseable. I just think that there are societal and personal motivations, as well as medical factors, sometimes, in the way in which we go about negotiating the interface between personal circumstances and health.

Read "sunbathing in the rain" by Gwyneth Lewis: she draws a very strong casual link between a failure of honesty to oneself and depression. So, conveniently, though horribly, treating something as depression whether or not it is will ultimately have the outcome of it being depression anyway. Arguably.

Sorry if this is just waffle. I wish you all the best for things improving. And it sounds as if you are a great mother.

Haha, thanks Nutty. You don't seem like a heartless bitch at all, you know that & it's good to know that it really could just be 'the other stuff'. I wish things were easier. To be honest, even if it is PND, I think it will have been set off by the general lack of support, which is all part of that other stuff.

littleboyblue, what you said was worded just fine - I know what you mean. It's a bit worrying though - especially when you say about ignoring calls & stuff. I've been turning my phone off for days at a time fairly often at the moment (this from the woman who used to sleep with it under her pillow!) & right now it's off. It does feel like I need to be in the right mood to turn it on & face all the texts & voicemails asking if I'm okay & so on. Which obviously are triggered by me having my phone off. It's a vicious circle, really.

& yesterday I didn't eat a single thing until about 8pm. This is in no way unusual for me these days. I eventually get hungry (but not as much as I think would be usual), but still just can't be bothered to eat. It's like there's no point. I used to love food. I still watch cookery programmes & stuff, because I'm genuinely interested in it. But not in relation to my life, IYSWIM. I don't see that I need to eat & nothing tastes that good anyway.

I used to drag myself out to see people / shop, but I'm beginning to falter on that, too. I'm going to force myself out today, because it's been a week since I left my flat & I can see that that's clearly very unhealthy.

Springy my love xxx ((hugs))

do speak to your gp if your worried, as you know things for me are pretty similar to you at the moment, for me personaly i think its the other stuff rather than baby blues (i use that term loosely i know pnd is more serious than just baby blues).

please please just let me asure you from what i have seen, you are a fantastic mother to Lil G. and fwiw when i'm out i'm out for me and do my best to forget i'm a mum. its what you do to try and find a bit of yourself, "me time", switch off, whatever. it also shows trust that your dh is capeable of looking after the baby after all he's a parent too and is equally responsible. dont beat yourself up about it!!

typing this i'm sure i sound like a heartless bitch. but i love my kids so much its untrue.

but i also need my nights out to blow out the cobwebs to be a saner mummy for my children (and a less arsey cow to my dh, though lately he deserves it lol), without it i would probably be a bawling mess which is no good to anyone.

i'm at the end of cyberspace /phone / train line if you need. you know that though xx

your doing fantastically, you are a wonderfully strong woman dealing with such alot and so well too!! its not suprising you dont feel the best, you can only deal with so much before the burden gets a bit too heavy and we all need a bit of help now and again. xxx

sorry for rambling its late lol xxx huge hugs lady xx

Just read that back.....I don't mean that if someone doesn't feel the rush of love, they are selfish, I just meant that when ds1 was born, I was so used to thinking of myself but not so when ds2 was born.
I know I haven't worded that right, but hope you can see what I do mean..........I'm just talking about how it was for me.

Hi. I have 2 ds's. 23 months and 5 months. I have been on anti-depressants for about 3 months for PND.
Quick background......
All through first pregnancy I was soooo excited about having a baby and couldn't wait to meet him. When he was finally here (6 days over, nearly 3 days in labour and a forcep delivery) I was just glad not to be pregnant anymore!
I looked after him, I fed him, kept him warm, clean, clothed etc, but didn't actually feel a huge rush of love until he was about 5 months old. I remember a friend saying to me in the early weeks "Do you just love him so much?" and I said "oh, I suppose so. Hadn't really thought about it" I obviously did love him, because I cared for him and kept him safe, love works in different ways I think. But I didn't have the time to process all my emotions if that makes sense.
I also think that especially with the first, there is so much to be completely overwhelmed with, I mean even though you might read every parenting book and mag on babies and pregnancy, you're never completely prepared and I know for me, I thought I was well prepared but got the shock of my life when he was here!
With ds2, I kind of had a better idea of what to expect, but I think I did have the rush of love the first time I saw him, purely because ds1 has taught me not to be so selfish iykwim?.....
PND doesn't mean you don't love your baby or that everyone will have problems bonding at all. For me, PND stopped me thinking like a normal person. It was a struggle to get through the day without crying. I feel I have a great bond with both my children, but that I needed to ive myself a boost in order to get through the days.
I've had some great chat's with my HV about it all, she really laughs at me because she says I'm saying out loud exactly what she was thinking 20 years ago.
Because you aren't obsessively worried about your baby also doesn't mean you have PND, I think it'd be a clearer indicator that you did if you were IYSWIM.
My advice would be to speak to your gp and/or your hv and tell them exactly how you're feeling. PND is very common and they would have seen an awful lot of it in varying levels, so it'd be doubtful it'd be missed, although no one knows how you feel but you.
For me, I was enjoying my baby and my new life, but my personality started to change. I couldn't face eating, I wasn't laughing at my fav programs, I didn't want to talk to anyone apart from my children, I started drifting away from the world outside of my house. I'd still go food shopping and the odd playgroup, would meet friends in the park and so on, but I stopped answering my phone every time it rang, some days I didn't even turn it on, I wasn't returning calls. It was just small things like that really, but all together left me feeling like I wasn't coping.
When people in RL ask me how I cope with 2 so young, I say "Prozac" and whoever I', talking to think I'm joking. When I tell them, I'm being serious, they all say they'd never have thought it because I look nice, my ds's look nice, I'm outgoing, I laugh (now) and I seem to be holding it all together really well, which I think just shows you you never know what's going on with everyone else either.......
Speak to your gp/hv, they will advise you and will be able to offer suitable help and support if that's what you need.
Goodluck

Springy, lots of hugs. You say you're 'going through the motions' - the MW once said to me, ask yourself if you're enjoying your baby, because that's the most important thing.

I don't know about PND, you are having a difficult time anyway, but can't hurt to talk to your GP about it. Good luck sweetie.

Springy, you have been going through so much with your DH and new motherhood, it would be amazing if you were feeling all joyful & loved up, TBH.
Talk to your GP, it can't hurt and (s)he'll be able to point you towards help...

Hahaha, what help?

Will try for a double appt though, thanks.

Springy, so few people get a rush of love I wonder why it has become so prevalent in our cultural definition of motherhood.

I also think it is usual to have a bit of an emotional dip three months in, when the help fades away a bit and the tiredness really hits home. But a chat with a sympathetic GP is often a good idea, just in case you ahve a touch of PND. Consider making a double appointment as well, so you get longer than 7 minutes.

To OP - totally possible.

I bonded well with my baby from the word go, but my PND manifested itself in anxiety - obsessive thoughts that something terrible was going to happen to my precious DS, my DH, other loved ones...

I didn't recognise it as something unhealthy and that needed addressing until he was around 4 mths old...and didn't get help for a good deal longer than that, as felt so ashamed.

Nah you wont be wasting their time, they see this type of thing on a daily basis, you wouldnt be the first mum to think you have PND and you certainly wont be the last, getting yourself sorted is the most important thing, theres nothing worse than feeling down constantly.

It is what GPs are there for.

Okay. I will make an appointment next week. Thank you - I feel less like I'll be wasting their time now, even if I'm fine. It's right to check.

I was dx at 3 months after DC2 so don't hesitate.

Yeh I totally agree, thats not to say they wont diagnose you until 6 months though, I dont know if this is still done but a few years ago health visitors used to do an assessment on mums at 6 months to calculate the risks of them having PND.

Doctors often give advice that contradicts each other so if anyone thinks they have PND and its just being dismissed as the baby blues then you should be persistant (draining I know but its the only way) see a different doctor or several different doctors if necessary but dont stop until someone takes you seriously.

I definately think a trip to your GP would be the best course of action, and its worth knowing that almost every person at some point in their life will suffer a bout of depression so its nothing to be ashamed of. Life cruelly throws these things at us

Well, they should rethink things then as 6 months is an awful long time to be suffering.

Sorry fabbaker I didnt make myself clear, what I meant was in most cases PND is usually diagnosed around 6 months after birth as thats when health professionals are more willing to diagnose it as PND rather than just the baby blues you can have soon after birth, but as you rightly say it can happen at anytime from pre-natal depression to way beyond 6 months, 12 months etc.

I never got the rush of love when any of my 3 were born, I did suffer from depression when my 2nd was a baby but he was a very difficult baby to look after with a variety of health problems and always in hospital, I was also in a very abusive relationship and receiving no emotional support. I never received help because at the time I was too wrapped up in life to realise I was actually suffering from depression, its only when I look back I can see that I was actually depressed, my health visitor mentioned this to me when ds was 6 months old but as I refused to acknowledge I had a problem she couldnt really do anything to help me.

I can't say whether help would have been beneficial to me or not, but one thing I've realised is theres nothing wrong with asking for help, its not a sign of weakness its a sign of strength as you want to make yourself better to enable you to feel like a healthier person again.

No one can possibly know which is why you need to see your GP.

I just don't feel like myself. I expected a lot of that, because obviously life is suddenly very different. I get that. But I feel like there's nothing left of me. I went out for the night with a friend last weekend & had a really, really good time. But I didn't think about my DS at all. I read a thread on here the other day about going out for the night with an 11 week old baby at home & everyone seemed horrified at the idea. Is it just me?

I think I will speak to someone about it. My DH came off anti-depressants just before DS was born & will be going back on them ASAP - things are really difficult with our marriage & I don't know if I just feel crappy because of that. I don't want us both to end up diagnosed with things when really I'm just exhibiting symptoms of living with someone who is depressed & has already been diagnosed as such.

Things are just different to how I thought. I'm really snappy, have loads of nightmares (but not about DS like I've seen a lot of people discussing), really down... My eating patterns are very strange / non-existent... There are a lot of warning signs, I think. But then I just think that maybe it's par for the course.

For example, I could just be snappy because I'm tired from dealing with a 12 week old baby & my husband is finding life difficult too, so we're not getting on brilliantly. It doesn't really mean anything, does it?

Everything is so new yet.

I am nothing like I thought I would be.

Just take it as it comes and try not to think too much about what you think you should be doing.

I do love him, but perhaps not as much as I thought I would. But then I never got the 'rush of love' when he was born, so maybe it's just taking time?

I play with him perfectly well & think I'm a good mum. But a lot of it seems to be going through the motions rather than because I really want to.

Other things in my life are really difficult at the moment, so it may be nothing to do with PND at all. I just don't want to sit back & let myself get really bad because I automatically assume that it's nothing, IYSWIM.

Yes, it is possible.

I loved mine so much but have had PND every time.

I would urge you to go to your GP and get some help, if you are offered tablets, take them. Struggling on when you could be helped is daft.

You can get PND at any time, no idea what this 6 months thing is about, Kazzi79.

I suffered with PND and it really didnt affect how I bonded with my DD. I had real problems looking after my toddler though.
Are you asking that maybe you dont care enough? And that it could be a sign of PND ? I obviously can't answer that....but just the fact that you feel love for him is a positive sign I would think.
What are your PND symptoms? Have you thought about speaking to your GP or health visitor about it?

PND can affect you in different ways, some people dont bond with their baby at all others become over protective.

The first thing you say is that you love him, and thats the most important thing, how do you feel when you are out pushing him in his pram and people take a peek at him? Do you smile about him and talk proudly about him? How do you interact with him on a daily basis?

Theres no such thing as normal, every situation in life is different. I personally think its good when people dont become over panicky about things, babies are tough little things and they don't need to be wrapped up in cotton wool, theres a big difference between a mums instinct and an over anxious parent (being over anxious isnt always a bad thing though, I know someone who recently had a child with meningitis and despite being called over anxious she persisted until he was diagnosed thankfully in time)

I think its good that you have a baby that doesnt cause you any need for stress, a lot of mums would love to swap places......having said that PND usually takes around 6 months to creep in so keep an eye on it and seek advice from your doctor or health visitor if you dont feel right. There is help available if you ask for it xx

.

That's just it, really. In a lot of ways I think I may be beginning to suffer from PND, but don't think that I've not bonded with my 12 week old DS. Although the more I think about it, the more I'm not totally sure if that's the case.

I love him, I really really do. But I don't obsess about him in the way that seems to be normal. I don't think I've ever worried about him in any serious way about anything. I expected to really panic about him, especially at first, & have to sit up to watch him breathing. I was relieved to find that I didn't. I've not been stressed out about anything to do with him, when I expected to be totally PFB.

Is that how it is for some people without problems? Or is it another symptom of what could be PND? & if it is normal, then is it possible that I still have PND anyway?