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Can a man have PND

(35 Posts)
gazsm Fri 13-May-16 22:59:24

So on another forum on here. Ive just been told i cant have post natal depression because im a man.

Only woman get PND The poster says. Men just get depression.

Ive been diagnosed and am undergoing treatment for PND. So i don't really know where they get off saying this.

Im only just coming to terms with what i have and this really threw me. (Upset me).

PurpleDaisies Fri 13-May-16 23:03:17

Technically they're right-post natal depression is only defined in terms of women but clearly many men do become depressed after the birth of their children. It's a hugely stressful time with massive changes at home so it's hardly surprising. It might not be called post natal depression but it's an illness just the same.

Don't concentrate on the label. Concentrate on getting better. Do you have a sympathetic GP? Is your partner supporting you?

TheToys Fri 13-May-16 23:03:27

Absolutely, men can, and do, have PND!

TheToys Fri 13-May-16 23:06:04

I'm a MH professional working in the PND field (not to reveal toouch about myself!).

gazsm Fri 13-May-16 23:10:56

My wife is great and supportive but i find it hard to talk as i dont want to add to her pressure. We have young twins. And its hard.

GP is ok by HV is great.

They all call it PND.

gazsm Fri 13-May-16 23:11:49

Thanks toys

AtSea1979 Fri 13-May-16 23:12:57

Yes you can but its not brought about by hormonal change. It's environmental change.

JonSnowsBeardClippings Fri 13-May-16 23:14:05

TAAT
Why are you taking my comments so personally? I'm not diminishing what you do have which is desperation, I'm just asking why you feel the need to coopt a uniquely female experience and call your depression PND?
The toys - do you have any medical literature or treatment guidance you can share that references male PND?

JonSnowsBeardClippings Fri 13-May-16 23:14:38

Desperation was an auto correct - sorry - it was supposed to say depression of course

PurpleDaisies Fri 13-May-16 23:21:01

toys how do you get around the Dsm v criteria which say it's a major depressive episode that occurs within a set time frame of being pregnant or having given birth which men don't do (also qualified doctor).

As I said op, I don't think it's very helpful to get too hung up on the label. If you felt the person on the other thread was minimising how you are feeling op please don't pay any attention to them. Your wife sounds lovely. It's great you've got a nice hv too. I hope things improve for you soon.

PurpleDaisies Fri 13-May-16 23:22:19

Oops-cross posted with you jon-slow typist.

TheToys Fri 13-May-16 23:23:47

I work in the field and the perception has now changed to PND being non-gender specific. Most recent literature in shifting in this direction, if not already there. The perception that PND is purely hormonal or to do with the pure physicality of motherhood is wrong and needs changing. It's the feminist, as well as a systemic stance.

gazsm Fri 13-May-16 23:24:04

www.nct.org.uk/parenting/postnatal-depression-dads

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/fatherhood/11179744/Sad-dads-fathers-suffer-from-postnatal-depression-too.html

www.babycentre.co.uk/a1046187/postnatal-depression-in-dads

TheToys Fri 13-May-16 23:28:47

I'm not a doctor, but a therapist and work at a specialised PND service. PND can have several root causes, only one of the possible ones being hormones. Many are more significant/relevant.

TheToys Fri 13-May-16 23:32:15

Googling new guidance will bring literature up, but a lot of it is only now being drafted in cooperation with (other) health professionals. Things move slowly, but in the right direction.

gazsm Fri 13-May-16 23:48:12

I guess im taking it personally as you are directing it at me jon and its hard not to get hung up on it.

I know im meant to be strong and let things slide but its bloomin difficult. Ive only just come to terms with the 'label' daisies an tbh this has left me a bit lost

I thought i was dealing and now im back to feeling lile a fraud. I started this journey thinking men dont get this and i needed to shrug it off and carry on. I am learning to accept i have PND and now jon is directing all this negativity my way. I dont know where to turn now!

ForeverLivingMyArse Fri 13-May-16 23:51:17

It's depression triggered by the situation you're in.

It's not the same.

But sure, let's let men claim a post natal condition, even though men are never natal.

ForeverLivingMyArse Fri 13-May-16 23:55:26

And sorry gazsm that's not directed at you personally, it's just the whole chipping away at the significance of the impact pregnancy can have on a woman's mental health makes me angry.

I'm sorry you're unwell, depression , in any form, is horrid. Well done for seeking support. Don't get hung up on labels.

PurpleDaisies Fri 13-May-16 23:57:17

op if your health professionals are calling it post natal depression go with that. The treatment for a depressive episode and post natal depression are the same.

I don't think this thread will be much help to you. It would be better to have a discussion of the diagnostic criteria related to pnd on a different thread without relating it to yourself. I can understand why you're feeling attacked when people are questioning whether pnd does apply to men or not.

TheToys Fri 13-May-16 23:59:52

This shift should be beneficial for mothers whose depression will be recognised for what it is, instead of some kind of extended exclusively hormonal "baby blues". Serious societal matters need changing: the work of mothers, and dedicated fathers alike, should be more valued and supported.

fusionconfusion Sat 14-May-16 00:00:22

When I had PND (as a woman) I was told it doesn't exist as a separate diagnosis and the NICE antenatal guidance that was in place at the time advocated for any major depression being diagnosed as that.

I'm not particularly keen on men saying they have PND, though I absolutely do believe that men can experience major depression in the transition to parenthood as a time of particular shift and sensitivity in role identity. The reason for this is that many of the issues that affect women specifically in relation to PND tend to be more sex-specific: body issues post-birth including birth injury and trauma, rumination about breastfeeding, adjusting to vastly more specific cultural proscriptions of role.

I hope you get help for your depression. I would try not to fixate on calling it "PND".

MrsTerryPratchett Sat 14-May-16 00:02:34

Depression is horrible, debilitating, serious and a medical condition. It affects men and women and should be much more acknowledged, treated and cared about.

However, I am worried about the way that women's health is side-lined. PND is the condition of depression after birth. Of course it's not wholly hormonal, but denying the enormous physical change that being pregnant and giving birth has on women (considering that giving birth is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do) worries me.

That doesn't mean your depression isn't serious. It is and it's great that your wife and HCPs are supportive.

TheToys Sat 14-May-16 00:07:49

I have to add, I do not wish to downplay pregnancy or birth related trauma at all (men can also be traumatised by a difficult birth or pregnancy). They are important factors, absolutely! Birth trauma is unfortunately very common. But there are many others which seem to be at least equally, if not more, important and prevalent.

fusionconfusion Sat 14-May-16 00:10:15

That is my feeling too MrsTerryPratchett.

I don't want anyone to feel any more isolated in suffering depression than most already do and I wish the OP nothing but light and health and wellness.

However, it strikes me as concerning that I was told not to call my experiences PND in the NHS while a man is being told that this is what he has, when birth trauma and subsequent physical recovery and breastfeeding failure was so profoundly a part of the trajectory of my illness. Hormones are not the only aspect of PND that make it important as a women's issue. Many women experiencing PND are in abusive relationships or experiencing very signficant isolation and lack of support in ways men rarely do. I think we need to be careful about minimising women's issues in the rush to be PC, particularly when the treatment remains the same regardless of whether a person is male or female.

Women are supposed to be prioritised for treatment for PND antenatally and postnatally because of the potential impact on their infants and the sensitivities around timing of medical treatment in pregnancy, and the need for caution around prescribing of drugs for off-label uses in pregnancy and during breastfeeding, and yet this isn't happening in many areas. Including men in statistics, or not recording women's diagnoses as perinatal, doesn't give the best information to support the development of appropriately responsive, timely services in pregnancy and during breastfeeding.

gazsm Sat 14-May-16 00:12:56

I never wanted it to be that far less call it that. I very much believed i couldnt have it as i wasn't a man. It took me a while to come round

I dont want to trivialise what woman go through or take away role identity but in turn some men go though mental and emotional trauma relating to birth too.

For example. My wife is breastfeeding twins and when they were feeding 2hrly she wad struggling and they wouldnt take a bottle. I could do nothing to help and i wss in pieces. They were crying and they needed was mum. Dad was useless. Another was during pregnancy one we nearly lost mum and dd. So i worrief all the was through pregnancy two without showing of course.

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