is this the end?

[elementofsurprise]

... it feels like it. Been progressively more down and had a weekend full of intrusive distressing memories, then last few days just so shaky and in pain and now I'm numb, sort of. Not numb exactly, cant sleep but exhausted, sot of distant. Looking at death and realising its the only release for me.

I feel like I've tried everything, but other people, their reality, is just further and further away. My experiences set me apart so much, and no-one will reach across the divide to me, no, I'm a weirdo to be ridiculed for not having a positive outlook or something. I have done so much, for so long, to try and make my life better. I had the positive outlook and kept rebuilding it everytime dreadful and traumatic things happened. I was trying to do the right thing since my teens, when others were messing around I was trying to build a life... yet the same people seek to lecture me and judge me because they finally got their act together and it all worked out... rather than the hideous bad luck i've been subject to.

I just want someone to love me and give me a hug and accept that it fucking hurts. No more blame or jugdement. Someone I couldnt tell the memories to who would believe me and see why it hurts so much (if I wrote the things here it would sound bad but in real life people like to minimise...) Someone who would just give a shit and encourage me when I'm unable to myself, rather than be expected to somehow feel good when I feel shit, as if I'm deluding myself.
But that is not possible.
And I am floating away, giving up trying to connect with the people who dont understad and judge me. I didnt want it to be this way but the world is telling me, forcing me through the door. I am not wanted here. I wish I was.

Please dont tell me to get help... I have tried for years and the awful experiences in the system is a big part of my struggles... I am not allowed to se the CMHT or primary care MH services - both have explicitly stated I am not suitable and will reject referrals. Fighting for help has drained me and hurt me so much. I see a private therapist weekly but it isnt enough. It is not explaining the answers I seek, it does not add up in the real world... if I am worth something and shouldnt have experienced those things fair enough but it doesnt stop the way I am treated or explain how to know who to trust... it doesnt explain why I am eternally and unwanted failure, why people judge me so harshly. I feel so alone.

I'm sorry.

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

Hi.. Sorry you feel so crap.
I know you said you don't want to get help, but please have a look at ibogaine for depression. Apparently it resets your chemical levels and cures all sorts.
If you are often down/negative/complaining then you probably won't be able to find a man who is happy to stick with you through the bad times if the good times are few and far between. I make an effort to complain when my husband come home. I'd talk to him if I needed his advice, but I don't want petty complaining to become a habit... Easy to say when you aren't depressed though

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

I make an effort NOT to complain !

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

Blimey, do they really turn you away when you've told them you think about hurting yourself?! How useless ! I suppose they are very busy so unless you have children or are a danger to others you might miss out.. Perhaps try another therapist? But nobody will be able to give you a satisfactory answer to why some people aren't nice to you and why your life has gone wrong...there's no answer to that apart from life isn't fair

[elementofsurprise]

It's not petty complaining when I am crippled and confused by flashbacks/memories. I feel like I am hiding a massive secret and so distant from other because of whats happened to me.

Just to be able to speak about the memories and express my distress rather than bottle it up once in a while, that's all I'm asking. Someone - friend or otherwise - who just knows whats going on in my head and would say something encouraging or give me a hug when they can tell I'm strugging. Just sort of being accepted as me rather than having to constantly explain myself and apologise for feeling bad.

I can't help the horrible things that have happened, as I said I've always tried to do the right things to make life better, look on the bright side etc, keep going. But sometimes it needs to be ok for it to hurt, otherwise I just feel even more shameful and worthless cos I have to hide it, iyswim.

I'm not even particularly looking for a man, it's just the feeling that if even one person actually loved me and could encourage me like I would a friend in this position, it would make a huge difference. I can't always manage on my own, I do need a bit of support, but I never get support with the actual things I'm struggling with cos I end up bogged down having to explain/apologise/justify myself. When I'm hiding, shaking, and having horrible memories repeatedly race through my head and cant see straight, I can't exactly saunter in being the life and soul - I need a bit of kindness for a moment. And I feel bad that I need that and wish I didn't - but I am in a really bad way day to day that people don't grasp because I do try to hide it.
God, I must be in a different realm, wasn't that clear in my first post? What is so wrong with me that I cant be heard or understood? Or what am I missing? Genuine question, not sarky... this is what I mean, I feel so distant.
If I was here writing that I felt worthless wouldn't you be telling me to get some support? That I didnt need to feel ashamed for what others have done to me? I feel like the world is saying: "actually, you were right all along, you ARE shit and worthess, noone can ever love you, others are allowed to be depressed or traumatised but you're just a FAILURE and bad human if you express distress". I thought I'd done well to get this far and thought I was starting to heal but it doesn't tally, is it wrong to need support? It seems so, but bottling everything up and blaming myself caused my problems in the first place!

I feel like suicide is my only option, in a sort of resigned, exhausted way. I simply cant make sense of it to make things better, and the pain gets worse and worse - logically it's all downhill from here and only my stupid optimism looking on the bright side deluded me to come this far.

[elementofsurprise]

Ok, I will give a very small example. This was on my mind at the weekend. I witnessed somene try to kill my boyfriend ten years ago. The whole context was fraught with other difficulties and failures in the system -I was living with the guy that did it (lodgers) and had to remain living there. Gosh I cant write much as all things need explaining with something else and might out myself! Suffice it to say council did not do their duty in housing me or violent but v unwell man. MH team didnt help. My frantic call to police was ignored for ages before they showed up. Fortunately others had burst in and helped. But I was told off and dismissed as if I'd been making it up, cos violent/ill lodger was all calm by then, and no-one but me would make a statement ("dont want to be involved with police").
Ths is a tiny fractional snapshot, bearing in mind I was still a teen at the time. But being dismissed and supressing very painful, frightening things that I sort of didnt process cos I couldnt make sense of, had a lot of this for years and it hit me later on. Took a long while to realise the extent, I'd put up with abuse and things without realising it was wrong... I mean, it hurt, but I had to pretend it didnt to survive and I was used to being told I was 'overreacting'... anyway...
it would have been really helpful to be able to just say to someone, oh this is hurting/on my mind, and sort of have a hug and just sort of someone to say, oh, that must have been very hard. Thats it really, I just sometimes need that validation and gentle atmosphere when it's bad.

Hope that explains better, sorry im finding it hard to explin clearly maybe? I feel like theres a wall between me and everyone else.

[elementofsurprise]

in general I dont want answers as to why my lifes gone wrong... just support and acceptance, not blame. But then I cant have that so I want answers to why that is iyswim! Cos it sort of compounds the original issues

[elementofsurprise]

i'm sorry, didnt mean to write so much.

[Devilishpyjamas]

What reason have they given for rejecting referals? Have they assessed or diagnosed you? (I know some dx can bar you from certain services).

Have you tried a support group? Not so much for the support provided in group sessions but as a way of meeting people who are dealing with similar issues & likely to understand you & 'get it'. Friendships developing from
support groups can be the person always around the corner/on the end of a phone. And you can be the same for them.

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

Sorry if I've made you feel worse. I didn't mean to. I don't know what things have happened to you, so wouldn't call them petty, I was just trying to point out how easy it is to get into a pattern of negative thoughts.
The things that have happened are in the past now, you are doing the right thing seeing a therapist, I'm sure that will help, but I think you can do more to take responsibility for your own life, as it is now. For example, instead of obsessing over a sad event in the past, decide that whenever that thought pops into your head, you will immediately replace it with ... Daffodils or sunset etc. Until it becomes habit. It is a fact that you can help yourself by focussing on the positive, and being grateful for what you do have. It's hard if you are feeling really down, but it's better than wallowing and giving up. Before you know it you will have shifted your perspective enough to at least stop feeling suicidal. Nobody's life is so worthless that I could agree with you that you ought to go down that route..Sorry if It sounded unsupportive, your post says "don't tell me to get help" so I couldn't give you helpful links or numbers really.
I am also sleep deprived so maybe I'm being insensitive..

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

That's a really good idea with the support groups. People in the same boat will probably be more use to you than a therapist. I would be alarmed if I met a stranger who immediately told me she was considering suicide. I suppose you don't understand unless you've been there. It might do you good to realise that there are plenty of people who have had even worse lives than you, and if they overcome it, it might spur you on. You can also buy books on CBT or overcoming depression. But do look into the ibogaine

[NanaNina]

Hello element - I know you've been struggling for a long time. I understand and accept what you are saying. You are clearly a very intelligent young woman - that is evident in the way you write, and you sound very rational, even though I know we can often sound rational when we are feeling like shite inside. I too am wondering why the medics are refusing to see you - maybe you don't want to say, or maybe you've given up on them. I am wondering if you are suffering from PTSD - as you hint at traumatic life events. But I totally get that you need someone to understand you and accept you (we all need that) it's an essential component of the human condition.

Playnicely I'm sure you are well intentioned, but your first post to element was really not helpful at all and it made me cringle - the OP didn't mention "wanting to find a man" - and this ibogaine you recommend. I have looked it up and it seems like it's a plant extract used for treating drug addiction. In any event I'm sure it's nothing that medics would prescribe.

I am also astonished at your suggestion that element blocks out her intrusive thoughts by thinking of daffodils or sunshine.......I suspect you don't have first hand experience of mental illness. It's just that I can't imagine anyone who has, would give such advice. It's really insensitive and even offensive, though I'm sure that it not your intention. Nor does it help those of us suffering the torment of mental illness to think of people who are worse off than us........that's another thing that people who have no first hand experience of mental illness often say, and it's just so hard as element says, because we know that they have absolutely no idea of what we are going through.

CBT and books on depression is your other suggestion and maybe not unreasonable for someone with mild/moderate depression, but I'm not at all sure this would help the OP. We don't know her diagnosis - it sounds like PTSD but I'm no medic so I don't know. Medics often diagnose people with "Borderline Personality Disorder" (re -named "emotionally unstable personality disorder") when they don't fit into any other category and there is often no effective treatment.

Element - I'm having a very tough time and my depression is worsening by the day and my CPN and psychiatrist are putting pressure of my to have ECT and I'm scared of it. To make matters worse my CPN has just old my the psychiatrist (who was the first nice one I've ever seen) is leaving at the end of September. BUT - I'm here and will listen and accept whatever you want to talk about. PM me if you don't want to talk on here.

[NanaNina]

cringe not cringle Just thought - there was a Horizon programme on TV last night about OCD and the crippling effect it has on people. There is quite a bit of research going into brain disorder which is all to the good.

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

Yes you're right i did mean well.. I was trying to cheer her up and make her feel less desperate the only ways I could think of... Ibogaine won't be prescribed by docs no, but that doesn't mean it's a silly suggestion. It can be bought legally online. If you google ibogaine and depression there are loads of success stories. And how many people these days refuse SSRIs because of side effects? Ok so maybe I pitched it wrong... But what do you suggest in a similar situation In future ? Agree there is no hope At all? Tell her nothing will ever change and she really is destined for a life of bad luck? Really? Is that the going advice on helplines ? Ok I am hilariously uninformed, but surely someone TRYING to help is better than nothing ? At least it shows that someone cares, even if it's someone daft... I was panicking slightly I suppose,.. It's what I would have said to anyone I love who threatened the same thing. I hope you're ok op and I've not made you feel worse.. :( sorry

[Butterflywings1682]

Hi element. We've talked before, minor name change.
So sorry you still feel shit.
I'm listening. I get what you're saying.
Feel free to DM me if you want x

[NanaNina]

I don't think it's going to help the OP if you and I Playnicely get into a debate about how we support people on the MH threads. Having said that, it isn't possible to "cheer someone up" when they are in such a dark place, nor is it advisable to buy medication online as there is no knowing what you are actually buying, and so could potentially be damaging to your health. How strange that you say you are "hilariously uninformed" - nothing funny about it as far as I can see. I assume everyone on the MH thread suffers from MH issues or is close to someone who does, otherwise I wouldn't have thought it would be of any interest to others. My DP always says "when in doubt, say nowt....." but of course you are free ti post on any thread you like, and yes I'm sure you meant well.

Anyway OP where are you - can you come back and talk some more?

[NotAJammyDodger]

Hi Element. I never know really what to say as I know you have been struggling for a long time but wanted to send you some ((hugs)).

You did mention on a previous post that you thought you had traumatic PTSD I think?? Are you still seeing the private therapist? Just wondered if it was helping at all, and whether you ever show your therapist the posts you write on here?

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

What? Oh suicidal? Nah I don't know much about that.. Off too search skinny jeans... How could anyone not reply to such a scary and sad sounding post?
I may have gone about it in the wrong way, but I can't accept it's impossible to make any difference so no point in trying ? Surely anyone can be of some use to try and convince someone very low, that it won't always be this way...just hang in there a bit longer?
Ibogaine may be potentially damaging to your health, but suicide is most definitely damaging. I hoped she would google the life changing stories from people with depression and think "oh maybe that could be worth a shot" I was trying to give her some hope.. In whatever way I could immediately think of... You're saying I made her feel worse? And I ought to have left it to other suicidal people ? Surely that is 2 unhappy people who agree there is no hope?
I'd really like to apologise for any additional hurt I caused you op. I hope you are ok. And pp is correct that I am not knowledgable on the subject.. So please forgive me for being so foolish as to think you just needed "cheering up" I should have just said that you aren't alone.

[PacificDogwood]

Ah, Element, sorry to read your distress and that you feel there's no way forward.

Surely if you are not suitable to primary care MH services, then secondary care may have something to offer you?

Please keep talking to us. Painful emotions and intrusive thoughts are so exhausting to deal with, but they can and do pass. You will not always feel as you are feeling just now.

And 'Ibogaine'? Really?? Unlicence, untested and not readily available in the UK? I know next to nothing about the OP, but I doubt that this is going to be the panacea for her. Nor is the advice to 'not complain'.

[PacificDogwood]

x-post with you, Playnicely, clearly you mean well. I did not mean to pick on you.

[NotAJammyDodger]

Playnicely When depression is at its worst it's impossible to even think straight let alone function normally - that why many of us end up in hospital.

You can't just pull yourself out if it when you are in that such a destressed state. It is serious and potentially life threatening. Your comments may be well intended, and may help those with very mild depression, but I think the OP's situation is more serious.

Also, re: your earlier comment that things that have happened are in the past now - what happened to me in the past is absolutely the basis of my depression, and it's exploration is also the basis of psychodynamic therapy (which I have been receiving for years to get over what was in the past).

[elementofsurprise]

Butterfly So pleased to hear from you! I wondered if you were ok.

NanaNina yup I had the lovely BPD diagnosis, incorrectly IMO. Actually, I think the way I've been treated by the psych system would cause anyone in pain who's asked for help to display BPD "symptoms"... in my case most thinking/behaviour that might "seem BPDish" has actually been triggered by this treatment. I don't think I fulfill the diagnosis even now, and 'officially' it's depression/anxiety diagnosed by GP in lieu of any diagnosis from a psych, although nurses and GPs have bandied around BPD frequently enough it lingers on my file.

Actually, when I approached the GP in late teens (around the time of above incident - before in fact) I outlined the events in my teen years that triggered terrifying feelings, assuming I'd be set to see a counsellor to work through it, and that everyone would be... nice. Kind like the general nurses I have encountered. Yet I was forced to take pills ("or I wont let you see a counsellor"), told I was "Just one of those people" and excluded from all services much to my bafflement and distress - no-one told me about the diagnosis for a couple of years.

I'd say complex PTSD including depression if self-diagnosing (or diagnosing someone in my position!) I've read a lot, understand a lot about the system and it outrages me but when things are bad it doesn't really help the feelings.

I am not allowed to see CMHT now because my past experiences apparently mean I "can't engage" with them. Frankly it's them making the issue, not me - I'm in a different area now so it's not like it's their team is implicated.

Obviously most people can't know about my experiences, because they are so linked to the diagnosis - the reasons the police were encouraged to see me as a hysterical liar, the reasons I couldn't get MH help or housing, the reasons I was treated like subhuman scum. There's so much that makes me sound like a nutty conspiracy therorist, so much discrimination and stigma around the label... but then I can't open up at all because people want to send me for MH help and I cant explain why I cant do that without going into it all. So it is a very lonely place.

I'd love to find a support group, and will have a looksie .

PlayNicely I'm sure you didn't mean any harm and actually I'm thankful you replied because it helped that someone had heard, even if you don't fully understand. The 'happy thoughts' thing, I do try ususally, it's just now and then I can't. Only more often because I no longer have the 'maintenace' type support I had previously from friends. By that I mean, sometimes a new raft of memories will break through, or a particular memory is sharply and persistently in focus, and I feel completely out of reality, re-living the thing and desperately trying to make sense of it, I guess in a way where I'm trying to avoid it happeneing again or know how to protect myself if it does. I am not in a normal, easily distracted state at these times, and not easily able to communicate.

I'd liken it to a physical illness where someone can watch their diet, take their meds, do whatever they need for maintenance... but every now and then will go downhill for a bit, and need help from someone else. However, if they are unable to eat nutritious food or can't get hold of their meds it triggers more frequent collapse and generally a lower level of health.
So because I don't really have people I can speak to openly irl anymore, or just be around if I'm not on form - 'maintenance level' - the need for someone to actually cut to the point and hug me and say "you are not worthless" when I can't believe it myself, is more urgent.

I basically want to be all happy and smiley and get on with things and have others sort of just be aware I am fragile below the surface and be vaguely nice if it shows. But I end up having to explain so much and justify myself rather than just saying "Oh, having nightmares/memories about XYZ" and having a hug/listening ear/just believing it hurts.

Oops I've rambled again. I end up explaining so much cos I hate being misunderstood! (wonder why?! )

NanaNina I'm sorry to hear its so tough atm. I really appreciate your thoughtful post and it helps to know someone understands. You really dont deserve to feel so crap, you always some across as kind and wise. I hope things look up soon.

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

Ok, I messed up.. I know you can't control clinical depression, it comes just like flu and you have to wait it out.. But it was more urgent than someone asking for general advice on depression..alone and desperate.. I just wanted to buy a bit of time.. Until someone else could help properly. I feel dreadful for making this worse.. Please let us know you are ok op, I shan't interfere any more, but I'd be so grateful if you'd put my mind at rest. I am so sorry, for being hurtful and ignorant

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

I'm so glad your "ok" Thank you so much for posting

[elementofsurprise]

Playnicely Wanting to understand makes a lot of difference. Don't beat yourself up. Your post just now made me cry, not in a bad way.

[Playnicelyforfiveminutes]

That is ever so generous of you OP.
I really DO want to understand and wish I could help. My sister was told last year that she has borderline personality disorder, (I know you were told bipolar, and have PTSD and been ill for years) she has been on four different meds which either made her worse or had bad side effects. My sister lives the other end of the country and is alone and I feel so useless when she calls.. All I can do is try and cheer her up/make her smile. Now I know that can't help someone in your position. I've googled and googled her condition and sent self help books written by people who have overcome depression, (CBT) I got her audible so she can listen to them and even affirmations! I got her to see a Jungian psychoanalyst who also worked for the NHS, for maybe 20 sessions, but she was intimidated by the couch, and the fact he wanted her to breakdown and was almost silent Instead of giving her answers..she started to dread going and that's how I found out about the ibogaine. I read a story from a woman who was in mental pain every day and couldn't carry on despite having a family who all cared and supported her, (unlike you it seems?) she travelled from USA to Europe to be treated with a "flood dose" (large amount) under medical care for 48 hours, because she felt she had nothing to lose. She said it was a miracle and she wakes up each day high on life. She is now training to be a ibogaine healer so she can spread the word and help others. I messaged her for more info she says she is a different person. She loves herself and everyone else, has found the person she truly is and has lost all social anxiety which stopped her ever making any friends, she even appreciates nature through "new eyes"! sounds too good to be true, I know.
I forwarded it all to my sister and after much discussion I've ordered her capsules in micro doses to take daily. The lady who sold them to me wanted a medial history, height/weight, symptoms etc. She was very thorough. Her customers posts all say how they owe her their life. I read every online ibogaine experience report I could, and found nothing negative at all. I know I can't say if it is sensible or not, like pp says, it is unlicensed (not illegal though) A book called bad pharma frightened the life out of me and I don't really feel confident about prescription drugs either..
There are SO many ibogaine stories from people who have gone from permanent suffering, debilitating shame and anxiety, (and even turned to illegal drugs or self harming or other self sabotaging behaviour to try and blot out the pain) they all say the same thing about ibogaine and all want to pass it on.
My sister is really excited and feels that this could be the answer. I really hope it is.
I understand past trauma must be "dealt with" by an expert over a long time, and cannot be "cured" by pills and positive thinking, but the reports I've read say that people have been able to "let go"after the ibogaine flood treatment and feel compassion for everyone who ever hurt them instead of hate, which really does sound like a miracle... I pray I'm doing the right thing by my sister... Our mum died young and we only have each other, so I feel I have to look after her as best I can, even though I am not exactly a highly functioning efficient success, or a good decision maker.
You have obviously coped somehow for a long time, and that must be completely draining... I didn't realise you were reliving past events without choosing to, that is not the same as thinking negatively or wallowing of course... Happy thoughts is a silly suggestion when you are going through what sort of sounds like visions...You must be very emotionally strong to keep trying..
I so hope you never get that bad again.. I worry my sister might one day feel so hopeless. I read that sometimes people don't tell anyone of their plans to end it and I dread that she might not tell me. You were very brave to post. I really hope I didn't put you off posting again if you needed to, and I am so glad you are a bit encouraged by finding a support group. I wish you all the luck in the world, you deserve it