Managing PND without Anti Ds - any advice/tips?

[pinkmama]

Hello.
After a lot of insisting that I just had bad baby blues I have had to admit to having PND. Its my 3rd baby, and tbh I am really shocked by it. This time around I have so many more friends with kids, we are settled in a lovely area with people around me (very differnt situation to both previuos pgs) so I really thought I would be safe from it. Anyway, it has well and truly reared its ugly head and I feel terrible. Not all days are awful, but at best I just feel a bit low, then on days like to day I think I cant cope with feeling like this any longer. Dh is truly fabuluos, in fact has just taken a couple of days off to look after me. I finally told a couple of friends who are being as supportive as I think its possible to be. HV is fairly useless, but has referred me to a pnd support group and gp has referred me for counselling which should kick in in the new year. I really want to try and manage it without anti ds. Mainly because I dont want to stop breastfeeding. I realise that if it gets too bad then its better that the kids have a sane mum than dd2 getting breastfed, but I as long as I can manage I would like to try.

Has anyone else manaed it without? Also, does anyone know how long in general pnd lasts. I know its probably how long is a piece of string, but is there a norm?

Sorry, long post!

[Nemoinapeartree]

hi
in terms of bf and antis ds there are a few that are perfectly safe to bf on so please dont worry about that. I have depression brought on when my ds was 6wks old, he is now 2.1yrs and for last year I have been off medication [mainly due to being pregnant). I am restarting meds once this baby is born in 2 wks but will say as long as you have a very good support network while having counselling etc then that will be of more benefit than any medication could be. Counselling is proven to be more effective than medication so am glad your gp has been quick to refer you. Also making sure you get support and some you time is good. Maybe keeping a diary to be able to identify any triggers for low moods would be beneficial. Good luck

[pinkmama]

Thanks Nemo. Good luck with your next baby!

[adrift]

There are plenty of ADs you can take while b/feeding. I took sertraline first, didn't get on with it, then swapped to dosulepin (aka dothiepin) while feeding.
Good luck, good luck.

[pinkmama]

I think my fear adrift is that both dh and I have suffered depression in past, we seem to come from families with history of depression and so I worry that our kids are somehow genetically more predispositioned for it. Might not be rational, but my fear is that at some point in future, if dd2 had mental health problems, I would always wonder if it was the anti ds that had messed with her head somehow. I am sure they wouldnt, but its trying not to set myself up with yet another guilt trip I could do without.

[Calista]

Hi Pinkmama
I had PND after the birth of my second baby, like you took a while to admit it to myself, but eventually with support from family and friends sought help. I wanted to stay away from AD's, and my Dr referred me for counselling which really helped. My counsellor was very understanding and supportive, but very positive too about looking forward to the things I was going to do in the future. I don't know if you feel the same, but I was very negative about everything and felt I couldn't do this or that because of some reason or other. Looking back I was just making excuses not to take action on things I wanted to do, but they really felt like valid reasons that were dragging me down at the time. She helped me to have the confidence to apply for a part time job, nothing too strenuous, but it was the turning point for me. Just being able to get away from the house alone for a few hours a week and have adult conversation about something other than babies! And it gave me another focus as I got into my job and began to enjoy it more.

DS2 was about 7 months old when I went back to work, so my PND was about 7 or 8 months in all. It started off mild and got worse until I admitted something wasn't right, and then slowly improved from then, with a big leap upwards when I started working P/T.

Hope you start to feel more positive soon, it sounds like you're on the right road with plenty of support.

[pinkmama]

Thats helpful Calista. DH and I talked today about what I could do to help myself. I know that getting back to work (I am freelance fundraiser) would be good in some ways as it might break the cycle of me feeling crap at everything, but my terror that I am genuinely crap is holding me back from doing it. I do feel like I am the worst at everything, utterly useless and pathetic. My self loathing is quite something to behold - in fact I am very good at that! It feels so hard to just get out of bed and get the kids up and to school that the thought of me managing to work seems ridiculous, and like I am setting myself up to fail and feel worse. Not sure if that makes sense, I feel like I am rambling. Its just your post really hit a chord. I do think working might bring me up a bit, but its a hard step to take.

[Calista]

Maybe you aren't ready yet to take the step of going back to work, I know before I started the counselling and for quite a few weeks into it I wasn't ready. Then there came a point where I was walking back home from the session with DS 1 and 2 in the double buggy (my mum and dad used to watch them for me at their house nearby while I was there), and I just thought to myself, do you know what, I can do it! I'll do this and this... and I began thinking positively again. Don't get me wrong, the positive periods started off few and far between, but they were back, and things got better and better.
You'll feel much better once you start the counselling. They look at things from a different perspective than family and friends who are close to you, and are obviously trained to help YOU to take steps to feel better. It's pretty empowering stuff really, you can get a lot off your chest but they really help you to view things in a different way. With me there were a lot of issues around my negative relationship with my own mum, and the thought I was going to have the same relationship and make the same mistakes with my own boys.
Do you have an idea what sort of stuff you need to talk about, or what's triggered you feeling like this?

[Calista]

And the self-loathing, the feeling that you don't want to get out of bed because you can't face the day ahead or the stuff you need to do - I've been in that horrible dark place. I know how terrible it feels, but please believe me when I say it won't be for much longer hon. You will look forward to getting up in the morning and seeing your children, and the little things will make you happy again. ((((hugs))))

[pinkmama]

Thank you. It helps so much just to know I am not the only person who feels like this. I know rationally I am not, and that loads of people get pnd, but I dont know any of them. My post natal group on here all seem to be having a lovely time, and it all just adds to that feeling of isolation and being totally totally crap. I have no idea what triggered it this time. With dd1 I had antenatal depression but was fine as soon as she was born. With ds we had just moved half way down the country, no permanent home, I had no friends or family nearby and yet I got through it with no problems. This time I am settled, have good friends, feel settled, and yet I feel totally crap. and like I am the only person who ever felt it. If I was a better mum I wouldnt feel like this, if I loved dd2 more I wouldnt feel like this and on and on and on. Each day I can find a thousand things that only prove how truly awful I am. I do have long standing issues with self esteem and maybe thats what I need to look at. I have bad relationship with mother, but oddly that has been slightly better of late. You are right about not been right time though I think with work, I always want to run before I can walk, always want it to be better NOW! Thank you for your words. They have been reassuringx

[notasheep]

Pinkmama,thinking of you,i had PND with both 2 babes,lasted 9 months and i really felt i was crazy,throwing dining room chairs at the wall,writing on the shower doors in the condensation in big letters IN CONTROL-obviously i wasnt.Managed to avoid anti depressants by talking and talking,boy did i talk! but it helped so much,be not afraid to voice your feelings.My NCT group were and still are fantastic

[laundrylover]

Hey Pinkmama I'm a freelance fundraiser too and had PND with my first. I didn't take anything as the doc said I coudn't cos I was feeding! Yes I know now that this is crap and he didn't refer me for counselling either. Am due number 2 in March and if it comes again I know my rights !
I think that a lot of my pnd came from the fact that I thought (and still do) that i am rubbish at being a Mum and that really this is the first thing that mattered that I've failed at(sounds big headed sorry!). In our line of work you get used to success (or you wouldn't get any work eh?) and I did find that going back to doing a bit of work helped. I do two days a week now and even go down to London every couple of months for some face to face work which really lifts my spirits. You will get through it you know...

[hoxtonchick]

sweetie you know i'm always here for you (well, at the end of a computer/phone normally...). really, anything i can do to help, i will. lots & lots of love xxxxx

[waggledancer]

Pinkmama, I am on baby no3 and mild PND for the 2nd time. Do we all live in denial for ages do you think. Men would take to their beds on iv anti-d's from day 1 postnatal! On a serious note acupuncture is considered to be effective in treating depression. Some nhs areas can refer to acupuncturists.

[laundrylover]

I denied it for ages but what didn't help was when I told my friends they said 'oh no, you don't seem depressed you'll be OK'. Only my Mum said that her and Dad had been really worried about me. Mind you we did start a new, very stressful business at the same time as having a baby! Not recommended!

[pinkmama]

Thanks guys. Lovely to get up to your messages this morning. Its a bit scarey telling rl friends how bad it is because I am terried that they all avoid me because I am miserable. I am very good at hiding it though which is one of the few things I feel good at at the moment! My mum helpfully rang me last night to tell me she had watched a programme on pnd and it had said that a lot of mums fear they will hve their kids taken away if they admit how bad they feel and that one of the mums on the programme had actually lost her baby. Not sure how she felt that might help me! MOTHERS!!!!

Laundrylover, I was so ill during my pg, nothing serious, just I had every bug going, that I lost loads and loads of work time and as a result failed to make the kind of figures I needed to for most of my clients and had quite a few applications rejected. That has not helped my self esteem at all and makes me more scared to step back out there.

Waggledancer, I think denial goes on for a long time. I just hope I can admit to it getting too bad to cope without antids if the time comes.

Notasheep - pnd with both babies! You poor thing. I can guarantee that all thoughts of going on to have a 4th baby are firmly out the window now.

HC - you are lovely. Lets get together asap. I promise I wont just sit in a corner gibbering .x

[SackAche]

Pinkmama - I had PND after ds was born. After 18mths of struggling to stay remotely sane and functional, I found MN and plucked up the courage to go to the GP. TBH at that point the worst had passed and I only sobbed hysterically once a week rather than every waking moment ! My GP didn't feel that AD's were appropriate at that point as I was clearly improving. So she recommended A homeopathic remedy called Sepia. She said she had no idea why it worked, but was just constantly amazed by the results she had seen from women using it to combat PND. SO off I went to the chemist and never looked back! It was like someone lifted a black cloak.

She also recommended reading up about PND and telling my friends and family what was going on. Its not a shameful secret and I had been hiding it very well from everyone, including the HV. I got loads of leaflets and got myself crammed with info and facts. Then I crammed DH with info and facts..... then my Mum..... then my friends! I wanted them all to know that I wasn't a shit Mum, or a manic depressive..... but I was temporarily suffering from an illness that I was doing everything I could to recover from. And I did. I've no idea how long it took once I had started taking Sepia.... but not long until I felt like me again.

[mummyhill]

Hi Pinkmama I am watching this thread with interset to see if anyone can come up with a good coping strategy and any ideas of how long we can expect to feel like this.

I suffered PND with my first and am now spiralling with my second. I can't take ADs because of a thyroid problem. The GP has refered me for councelling and my HV is being great. Unfortunatley I do not have a good support network this time round. My Husband does nothing to help round the house or with the kids. My parents can't help as much this time round nor can his due to ill health. The three year old is driving me mental and the baby seems to do nothing but sleep and cry. I love the kids and hubby very much but am struggling to see a light at the end of the tunnel I am in at the moment. So if anyone has any suggestions I am listening.

[mummyhill]

BTH most PND sufferes are extremly good at hiding it my HV didn't pick up on it 1st time round till DD was 12 months. Luckily she knows me well enough now to of picked it up on her first visit and pushed the GP for a refferal for me.

[mummyhill]

oops should read by the way

[pinkmama]

Thanks sackache, dh read your post before I did and has just returned from the chemist with a box of sepia tablets! Fingers crossed.

[pinkmama]

Hello mummyhill, sorry you are suffering too. How old is your baby? I have a 3 year old as well. He does test my patience and I find him the hardest to deal with on my really bad days. Their demands seem more relentless than the babys!

As far as hiding it goes, what I find most ridiculous about myself is that I have spent years working in social care, I am a qualified counsellor, was a samaritan at the age of 17, have worked in teh voluntary and statutory sector supporting people who are in crisis. I will do anything for a friend in need. And yet now I am in a bad way I respond to myself in the exact opposite way I would to anyone else, even a stranger. I am cruel to myself, unforgiving, demanding, punishing and ashamed of my own weakness. I would never ever say the things I say to myself to someone else who was depressed because I genuinely think depression is an illness, nothing to be ashamed of. Why are we so hard to ourselves?

[mummyhill]

Same here to am very good at supporting others and helping them. I have come to the conclusion that because we are so good at helping others and because they see us as strong people we are unable to let our wealside through in public because we are worried that others will lose their faith in us.

DD is three and DS is 9 weeks. I find DS quite easy as a cuddle/bottle nappy change will generaly calm him. But as you so rightly say DD is soooo demanding I just feel as if I am constantly shouting. And somewhere along the line i am losing my identity. I cannot remeber the last time I was anything other than wife and mother.

[pinkmama]

Mummyhill, have you got any friends around you can go out for a drink with or something? Part of my reluctance to talk too openly about how I feel is that I actually really value the time I have with my friends just being 'normal' talking about their lives. I feel so stuck in my own miserable head it actually helps to have a break from it. I am lucky in that I have a couple of friends who once a week we get together on an evening, often at each others houses for a glass of wine (or 3) and occassionally on a saturday I will leave the 3 kids with dh and meet them in town for a coffee. This weekend I was only out the house for an hour and half, but it felt so good just to have a break from being mummy and wife. I also find running very helpful. If anything positive has come out of this it has been to get me into exercise. I used to avoid it at all costs, but find I really need half an hour out of the house. Running is preferable to that constant barrage of mummy mummy mummy. i think the adrenaline and endorphines help boost my head for a little bit as well. Its not so effective when I am feeling at my worst, but on days when I am feeling fairly bad but manageable I find it can lift my mood quite a bit.

[mummyhill]

I tend to talk to my closest friends at;least once a day on the phone as one lives 100 miles south of me and the other one lives 100 miles north of me. There are a couple of mums from here that i now know in rl and i try to get together with them as often as possible.

[laundrylover]

Pinkmama, know what you mean about losing it during pregnancy - I had to give some work away in the end as was too sick too look at the screen. You know what though I bet your clients will be dying to have you back 'cos they know that you're good at your job. Anyways it's a funding desert out there at the mo with the Big Lottery sitting on their heels so you just stay warm at home and concentrate on being a Mummy, which we all know that you are 'hitting your targets' on! When the time comes that you feel ready for work drop me a line as I will be on maternity leave and hopefully PND free but we can swap roles!
What are your plans for Christmas by the way and are you looking forward to it?