5:2 Diet Thread! 7 is our lucky number...

(992 Posts)
GreenEggsAndNichts Mon 19-Nov-12 12:57:16

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. wink

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. If you have another link for this episode, please PM me with it, or post it to the thread and we'll put it up for the next thread.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

GreenEggsAndNichts Mon 19-Nov-12 13:20:25

Update-y note: BBC has finally noticed that YouTube had the Horizon programme on, and have asked them to take it down due to copyright issues. If anyone finds this elsewhere, or if it pops up again on iPlayer etc, let us know. Thanks smile

ManOnBoard Mon 19-Nov-12 13:30:38

Finally I have had the results of my annual medical and the only lifestyle change from last year has been this WOE so, rightly or wrongly, I am attributing the changes to it. My first fast day was 10/8/12 and I have so far completed 34 in toal, 5:2, 4:3 and some days consecutive and my weight has reduced by 29lbs. I have weighed and recorded the weights daily and it is very apparent that there are fluctuations that could distort the results were I to weigh weekly or monthly. The results from last year are in brackets:-

Resting heart rate: 48 bpm (52)
Blood pressure: 112/71 (118/79)
Cholesterol: 4.2 (4.6)
BMI 29.0 (33.1)

Once I reach a BMI of 27 I intend to switch to 6:1 but having nothing but water, which I have tried already except for tea with milk which doing without will be the true test. The thought of a BMI below 25 does not appeal to me but as a wise-ish woman once said "You can never be too rich or too thin" so I might chane my mind, which is not just a woman's prerogative.

Although I have more energy overall I do still struggle with anaerobic exercise when fasting but intend to stick to moderate fitness methods, such as walking or cycling on certain days. My main exercise is resistance training (weights) and the day/s off will be useful in muscle recovery.

Yesterday I made up a backpack weighing the same as my weight loss (13kgs) and walked with it on and it was an eye opener I think you should try.

Can I have another gripe, please do not use "starvation mode" as an excuse for not losing weight, this is something that has marginal effects when people are literally starving which is unlikely to be the case for anyone on here.

Fab41 Mon 19-Nov-12 13:33:36

Day one on fast, I have had fruit, low fat yoghurt, noodles with kale and bean sprouts and I am planning to have miso soup later. I am feeling hungry but it feels ok as tomorrow can be a normal day. I am planning to fast Mondays and Thursdays and to reduce the amount of home baking I eat.
I have read lots of good tips so far, thanks

Laska42 Mon 19-Nov-12 14:11:17

7 is indeed our lucky number! Happy shiny new thread!! Thanks to the lovely Greeneggs.

A bit of a shame the Beeb have noticed the programme is on you tube..but you cant blame them forwanting it down

Well im 21 hours into the 'not eating anything at all for 24hrs' .. only slightly hungry despite having to take DS to a cafe at lunch time..and watch him eat a cheese and salami panini, followed by a cake and cappuchino while I just had mint tea ( now that was a test indeed!)

Turkey chilli tonight..for my 500 today.. Already made but might even put some K-beans in it...(gee... get my idea of fasting day treats !)

Then will try for 16 hrs till I eat tomorrow if I can .. but wont worry too much if I dont ..

Mintyy Mon 19-Nov-12 14:17:32

I have been to my gp today as the result of my participation in this 5:2 woe. I will be having my blood tested next week principally to get my thyroid function looked at but also checking iron levels, blood sugar, liver and kidney fuction and - for the first time ever - cholesterol. So it will be interesting to know the results of that little lot!

I have been 500 calorie per day eating for 2 days a week since 1st September. Have done 23 or 24 "fasts" now and lost maybe 2 or 3lb. Hence the thyroid test.

Poppy1234 Mon 19-Nov-12 14:26:57

Hi everyone, today is my first day fasting after a very unsuccessful dalliance with low carb bootcamp.

I've decided to skip breakfast and lunch and eat a proper dinner and so far it's surprising doable. I didn't want to miss out eating dinner with the children so this seems like the best approach for the days I'm at home. When I'm at work I think I will do lunch and dinner (probably soup) as I'm home too late to eat with my toddlers anyway.

As I'm keen for quick results and want to undo the weight I managed to put on while low carbing (I must be the only person but I think it was all due to my lack of portion control) I'm planning on 4:3. The extra day will hopefully also mean i dont have to give too much thought to what i eat on non fast days. It will mean at least 2 days in a row as I'm not keen on fasting at the weekend and the weekend includes Friday in my book but I'm hoping I'll get into a zone and it won't be too horrific.

Dinner tonight is from the bbcgoodfood website, are the calorie counts on there relatively accurate or should I be double checking with the exact ingredients I have? I think I would like to automate my eating as much as possible on fast days and rotate the same few meals.

I really am excited about this diet, I struggled low carbing as I love cooking and food in general and it feels so liberating to be able to cut back for a few days to really enjoy food at the weekend and not have to restrict what I eat or constantly adapt recipes.

GreenEggsAndNichts Mon 19-Nov-12 14:39:54

Welcome to the thread, Poppy. I've not checked the calorie counts on the BBC website, myself, but it can't hurt to double-check.

You also want to be right on top of weighing and portions on fast days. Hot drinks are a good way to get through the day (count your milk used in these!)

Check your TDEE with the calculator in the first post, that will give you an idea of what you can/should be eating on your non-fast days. With 4:3 (which I'm doing, myself) you can stretch that more if you're going out or whatever. I mention this mostly because if you're having problems with portion control, you might need a mental reset for what you should be eating in a day. Especially if, like a lot of us, you've done diets and have lost perspective of what we should actually be eating in a day. This works both ways; some people think if they want to lose more weight, they should cut down on calories on non-fast days. Don't do that! smile You'll already be at a calorie deficit from the fast days.

Anyway, you'll get loads of support here. Good luck! thanks

Breadandwine Mon 19-Nov-12 15:11:31

The Horizon programme is now here:


There are more adverts to negotiate than before, but it's all there! smile

Aftereightsaremine Mon 19-Nov-12 15:12:16

Welcome everyone & thanks greeneggs. I weighed myself this morning & I'm 2 stone down & 4 to go. ( though I'll be thrilled if I lose another 2 which will be a weight I've not seen since pregnant with dd2 (10 years ago).

So I hope the above gives people an incentive to come & join us.

frenchfancy Mon 19-Nov-12 16:01:43

Thanks for the new thread greeneggs.

I'm 22 hours in to my 24 hours on just black coffee and water (I've only had 2 coffees). It is easier than last week, and I think I may carry on this way.

DH talked to the teachers at school on Friday after they asked about his weight loss. He explained the 5:2 WOE, which they had not heard of as it hasn't hit France yet. He has just got back from picking up DD3, and it turns out that both the teachers are fasting for the first time today!

I feel like an evangelist spreading the word of a new religion smile

TalkinPeace2 Mon 19-Nov-12 16:12:07

thank you greeneggs for the new thread.
fasting today - incredibly easy for both DH and I as we had PIzza on Friday night, curry out on SAturday night, cafe fry up breakfast on Sunday morning and Chinese takeaway last night about 7 : therefore probably have enough spare calories to last us both the week !
seriously though, both doing a 24 for a change - ie no food at all today till supper. Easy peasy so far.

Frenchfemme Mon 19-Nov-12 16:19:32

Hi All, may I join you please? I feel a bit of a fraud as I am not a mum, and not even in UK, but you seem a fun and supportive group of people.

I have been following this WOL for a week now - did 4:3 (lean days Mon, Thurs and Sun) and have lost 1.8 kg. I am aiming for 4:3 each week, but will do 5:2 if life gets in the way one week. My planned lean days this week are Tues, Thurs and Sun.

I found what suits me best is to have one meal a day, in the evening, with tea (splash of milk), proper coffee and fruit/herb tea throughout the day. I am tracking on MFP. Exercise so far has been limited to walking the puppy, but I am meeting someone on Friday to talk about starting Yoga. I also have several CV machines in the sous-sol, inherited from the people I bought my house from, so as soon as I can get to them over the (un)packing boxes I will have no excuse for being lazy in the winter.

I am 168 cm, 90.6kg with a BMI of nearly 32, so a long way to go, but I am determined to get there, and become fitter, stronger and more supple along the way.

pookey Mon 19-Nov-12 16:20:39

Wow lots of 24 hour fasts today, 1 hr 45 mins left of my 24 hour fast. One tea with milk cheat (someone made it for me) but otherwise been fine here too!

MOB that's great that all those indicators have gone down.

Welcome all the new 5:2ers!

TalkinPeace2 Mon 19-Nov-12 16:23:47

Welcome. We are a very cosmopolitan crowd, age range 18 to nearly 80, men and women, all over the place. Yoga and 5:2 - that's what I do :-)

Breadandwine Mon 19-Nov-12 17:28:27

I'm over 22 hours into my fast now - and I've just finished my daily exercise. Because we've been away for the past few days I've let it slip, so today I did twice as much, really full on - 30 minutes at full pelt. And now I feel absolutely on top of the world! I certainly don't feel hungry, and I'm pretty sure I could go through until tomorrow morn with no problems.

I do have a constant supply of good coffee (black) on tap, and I shall gradually replace this with water over the next few fasts - the coffee started off as a 'treat' to myself during a fast, but I'm pretty sure I don't need it nowadays.

Must admit I tend to keep an eye on the time through the day and calculate both how many hours I've fasted, and how long to go before I eat. This motivates me to keep going, not that I need much motivation, but it's just something to occupy myself with.

Looking forward to my evening meal, veg curry and curried wedges - or stir fry with the same, not made my mind up yet.

Thanks GE for the new thread!

And well done, MOB, for those great stats - thanks for posting them!

Demolicious Mon 19-Nov-12 17:35:09

Just started today. I had the Horizon programme on Sky+ but only just got round to watch it at the weekend - wish I had seen it back in August. I have had my calories today, which included ryvita with scrambled eggs (or should that be the other way round). I am going to have an early night tonight - I might be having a few of those - which is not a bad side effect as I need more sleep !

pookey Mon 19-Nov-12 17:38:16

BAW I feel really good on my fast too, possibly better mood than on a day where I have had milky drinks and a small lunch dinner etc. I am about to have my first coffee (got my times wrong earlier fast finished half an hour ago) and more or less replacing tea and coffee with herbal tea today has not been a problem either.

Anyone else find their mood was good on a 24 hour fast?

pookey Mon 19-Nov-12 17:42:01

welcome demolicious well done on your first fast smile

phlebas Mon 19-Nov-12 17:42:35

pah ... just maintained last week (83kg from 101kg) I did two fast days but the rest of the week was highly calorific (& alcoholic). Am planning on doing ADF for the next two weeks - fasting first tomorrow. I am desperate to get 3kg off before Christmas. Waves at everyone! smile

Madhouse2012 Mon 19-Nov-12 17:51:29

Hello I did my second fast day yesterday, had homemade soup for lunch 70cals then figured out the roast dinner, so if anyone's interested roast chicken breast 100g 171cals, roast potato 50g 84cals, stuffing 50g 70cals, carrots 100g 22cals, broccoli 100g 24cals, 100ml gravy 28cals. It seemed like a massive dinner to me and only 399 cals!! I enjoyed every bit and was truly stuffed after.
Today I feel brilliant, refreshed even and haven't had a huge appetite, but have really enjoyed what I've eaten, fab diet and easy to follow :0)

Laska42 Mon 19-Nov-12 18:25:03

YAY ! just eaten my turkey chilli after my 24hr fast .. ( much more veg than turkey of course ) .. My 2nd 24hr fast now and It was was fine and much easier today than last week ..Despite having to endure my (grown up) son stuffing his face in front of me.. I just didn't allow myself to 'think hungry' .

I had black (real) coffee too - about 3 cups and then water . More than one drink of tea on empty stomach makes me feel sick I discovered a while ago , but coffee is fine .. .

I reckon this will be my regular Sunday /Monday thing now..

I'm definately on for another 16 hrs now though I think before I start tomorrows eating day .. despite my dinner being just turkey and veg ( no other carbs) i'm feeling right stuffed

Hang on in you other 24-ers .. youre on the homeward straight now! grin

TalkinPeace2 Mon 19-Nov-12 18:27:51

23 hours 45 minutes and supper is cooking .....

Laska42 Mon 19-Nov-12 18:35:13

grin TIP!

catsrus Mon 19-Nov-12 18:35:36

I'm afraid I put on weight over the weekend due to my very lax and overindulgent ways blush - instead of getting under 10 st I've shot back up to 10.4 <sigh>. I blame the wine it totally removes my willpower. Today i got back on track with a fast day, will try to be sensible tomorrow as I'm staying with a friend overnight so there will be wine once I get there - fast day on Weds (working in head office and the corporate lunch sandwiches are NOT even slightly tempting - phew!)

Welcome to all the newcomers!

Madhouse2012 Mon 19-Nov-12 18:56:11

Ooh you lot are brave for doing a complete fast! Well done&#128516;

Madhouse2012 Mon 19-Nov-12 18:56:49

^^^. That was supposed to be a smiley!

TalkinPeace2 Mon 19-Nov-12 19:00:39

Aah, stuffed. 1/3 tin baked beans, two eggs scrambled, one slice nice ham, lashings of pepper then a banana. Other than that its been two mugs of tea and a black coffee. That's my lot till tomorrow lunch....

ditto re booze and snacking - I have stopped lunchtime drinking at weekends - it reduces the number of hours during which I can get the munchies!

GreenEggsAndNichts Mon 19-Nov-12 19:03:46

I haven't weighed myself after the weekend, cats but I wouldn't be surprised if I put on a bit. smile I had a fun weekend in London, including an afternoon at Fortnum and Mason full of tasters of their holiday items, so I'm not going to feel bad about any of it!

Tis a fast day today, and I've had a good salad with iceberg, ham, and a bit of cheddar.

Which brings me to my tip: I use my microplane zester to grate my cheese, so that I end up with loads of fluffy shavings of it rather than thick grated pieces. It makes a small amount go far in something like a salad. I highly recommend it!

Jobyloo Mon 19-Nov-12 19:08:22

Evening everyone, on a fast day here and did manage 18hrs. Feeling like a bit of a cheat because I'm having an M&S count on us dinner - Jambalaya (360 cals) one of my faves, just could not be bothered with cooking as I'm the taxi driver for DS2 tonight ... so that'll do me until tomorrow and will have had just 500 cals today. The one thing I seriously can't work out is why you feel so good on a fast day??? Not moaning, loving it grin and loving this thread grin

frenchfancy Mon 19-Nov-12 19:11:44

Madhouse not that brave. I worked up to it, started having 3 small meals, then just lunch and supper, but lunch was just soup and it meant I couldn't have the meals I wanted at supper. Also stopping to have the soup just made me think about food.

Today was easy except for a slight wobble at about 2:30pm when I felt a bit woozy. Didn't last long.

Bienvenue Frenchfemme nice to see another Frenchy here smile

Aboutlastnight Mon 19-Nov-12 19:22:53

Had a weekend of night shift which always leads to crazy eating patterns with me.

I am fasting tomorrow and Thursday and I am hoping these days will curb my post-nightshift carb cravings which always come about because I am tired.

Anyway since August I have lost 10lbs even with a few weeks hiatus for moving house and difficulties with shift work.

potnoodles Mon 19-Nov-12 19:30:57

De-lurking here and would love some advice.

Been doing 5:2 and am now in my third week. I haven't lost any weight yet and wondered if anyone else had got off to a slow start?

Laska42 Mon 19-Nov-12 19:31:31

jobyloo Hi there.. Why do I feel good? cos I feel i'm in control of my eating (at last !!) and my tummy has gone right down (which it never did with the other diet ) , AND because tomorrow I can eat CHEESE and drink wine without much guilt and beating myself up for it grin LOL ..

Good on you for your 18hrs..

Mintyy Mon 19-Nov-12 19:38:27

I haven't really lost any weight and I have been doing 5:2 for 11 or 12 weeks now.

Am having thyroid checked.

There are a couple of other regular posters who have had the same experience and of course there may be others who have given up because it wasn't working.

Poppy1234 Mon 19-Nov-12 20:30:58

I managed my first 24 hour fast and was thrilled by how easy it was, I wasn't actually that hungry when dinner time came but really enjoyed it and wasn't tempted to Hoover up toddler leftovers as per usual. I think I found it easy as I wasn't eating until dinner time and that was it, I wasn't thinking about food all day and as I had no food my appetite wasn't triggered (too much).

Had lots of fun weighing ingredients and entering into myfitnesspal but I imagine this will loose its novelty shortly.

One questions, I just checked my TDEE and it's 1597, if I'm doing 4:3 do I need to stick to this on my non fast days or can I be a little more liberal?

rachelblythe Mon 19-Nov-12 20:45:35

Greeneggs, thanks as always for keeping us moving.

Fast day for me,i had rather an indulgent weekend. To much alcohol then got the right munchies and polished of half a tub of celebrations blush. Back on it today, i always look forward to a Monday fast.

Really happy that i gave my calories free Superglue noodles another try today in a stir fry. Last (and first time) i had then i was so disappointed and didn't enjoy the meal they were with at all. Made then with a Stir fry again tonight but with more sauce which made the whole meal slimy, then the noodles just fit right in there unnoticed, lol.

Making a couple of new recipes off the bbc good food website over the course if this week so if they are any good ilk post of the recipe thread.

Hope everyone is having a good day

GreenEggsAndNichts Mon 19-Nov-12 20:58:31

Poppy oh that's low, do you not have a lot to lose? If you like, you can eat a bit more than that, as it's 4:3 so you'll have more leeway. I don't count my calories on fast days but my TDEE is over 2000 calories, so it's easier to stay in range (cough, does mean I have a lot of weight left to lose, though!)

You can do what you like on non-fast days and see if it works for you. It's not a law that you need to stick to TDEE, but it's something to keep in mind if you are trying this way of eating and it's not working.

Madhouse2012 Mon 19-Nov-12 21:02:04

What's TDEE please?

TalkinPeace2 Mon 19-Nov-12 21:10:41

explanation and link in GreenEggs excellent opening post ....

Liberty132 Mon 19-Nov-12 21:26:53

BCL- thanks for the weighing advice. I am undecided. Would great to weigh myself monthly and get a nice surprise but on the other hand, weekly weigh ins keep me on track on there abouts.

Soooo,- whats involved in daily weighing? Like every day, same time, just once, whether fasting or eating? Are people tracking this electronically? At the mo, i just write the date and weight at tge back of my diary.

What would other weight stallers advise? Daily weigh ins or monthly?

Fasting tomoz. Days changed this week. Just taken my inlaws out for the most amazing thai meal.

Well done to those still losing. I envy you!!

Skinnyeye Mon 19-Nov-12 21:44:49

Hi all and well done to all the new 24 hourers. Changed my days around this week to fit in work and exercise this week so didn't fast today fasted yesterday and will do tomorrow and Thursday. I so love this way of eating!!

Yesterday I dug out some "thin clothes" from the back of my wardrobe and they fit now I couldn't be happier as I have a work thing on Friday and thought I would have to buy something new. People at work are commenting on my new shape and I can now wear clothes that I have been unable to fit into for 2 years grin Iv'e lost 17lbs and gone from size 16 back to 12 in 11 weeks and I feel like me again.

Thanks to Horizon and you guys thanks

Madhouse2012 Mon 19-Nov-12 22:06:48

Ah I see thanks, my TDEE is 2013 is that the amount of calories I should have? I use my fitness pal which says I should have 1100, don't think I could physically eat 2000?

TalkinPeace2 Mon 19-Nov-12 22:12:21

If your TDEE is 2,013, that means 14,000 calories a week will keep you at your current weight.
So if you are having 500 2 days a week, your weekly total drops to 11,000
which is an average of 1500 a day if you were doing 'normal' calorie control.
The implication of the MyFitnessPal figure is that you are quite short and have a fair bit to lose.
BUT be careful, you do not want to shock your system too much.
If you can manage three fasts a week of 500 calories, you should get weight results fairly soon, as well as the health benefits

GreenEggsAndNichts Mon 19-Nov-12 22:13:15

1100 calories? To maintain your current weight? That seems very low to me, but then, I'm quite tall. I've just tried to come close to getting 1100 as a response from the calculator but I think I'd have to start guessing well below 5ft tall.

literarygeek Mon 19-Nov-12 22:17:20

skinnyeye that's great, well done!

Iwearblack Mon 19-Nov-12 22:42:16

skinny wow well done! Love the idea of rediscovering some old clothes (have several tops never been able to wear but never got round to taking back... One day i may get in to them!)
I have never done fast days back to back - do you find them a challenge? Due to work commitments this week may have to do so...
liberty I get up, go to the loo, strip off and weigh then jump in the shower every morning. I could plot (in excel) a graph of weight vs day ...but I have actually just gone for weekly plots rather than daily. I just think oh up a pound, down a pound etc and it seems to be creeping down over a period. not that dramatic though (yet!) but only been 5:2ing since september.
mint hope the thyroid tests help. I was diagnosed autoimmune hypothyroid 2 yrs ago and found the foggy feeling has certainly lifted with taking thyroxine and now I follow this woe hoping the weight will shift too...

dontcallmehon Mon 19-Nov-12 22:48:12

I have eaten 2 apples today and had lots of tea with milk. I don't feel hungry. I find weight comes off quickly if I eat as little as possible on the fast days.

Madhouse2012 Mon 19-Nov-12 22:49:21

No I haven't got much weight to lose about half a stone and yes I am short! I'll see how it goes over the next couple of weeks. Although its the health benefits long term which I'm more interested in, shifting half a stone will be a bonus!
I used to have an over active thyroid, had it treated then went under which is treated with thyroxine, it makes you feel great once they get your dose right.

Bordercollielover Tue 20-Nov-12 06:43:45

Liberty, have you seen MOBs post above? I think from what he says that if you are having problems with losing weight then daily weighing would be better than monthly. My post was only based on a considered opinion, his is based on data.
Daily would give you the quick feedback you need to tweak what you are doing, you could then drop to monthly when things get going. Good luck, something will work.

literarygeek Tue 20-Nov-12 08:27:36

Hi all
Got sent a Groupon for those zero calorie noodles/pasta and intriguingly, rice...

It's here if anyone is interested.

The brand is called Eat Water.I've not tried it or similar but I know some of you had reasonable experiences with the shiritaki ones. I think these ones are not fishy from what I can tell.

I'm not tempted, myself.

catsrus Tue 20-Nov-12 09:01:59

Thanks for that link geek - tbh I haven't found the original, asian, ones 'fishy' at all - just very tasteless until added to something else. I have found them useful for adding bulk to veggie dishes though - so they are working for me - particularly on days when I want to really make sure I stay below 500!.

On that note, and related to the daily weighing discussion, yesterday I was 10.4 ish and today I'm slap bang on 10 st again (after a fast day) so the weekend didn't do too much damage <phew>. My scales are mechanical rather than digital and my eyesight is not all it was but it looks like I'm still on a very slow downward trajectory.

GreenEggsAndNichts Tue 20-Nov-12 09:57:39

Daily weigh-ins obviously work for MOB and they probably work for others, as well. However, I would really caution people who are considering this to realise that they will see big fluctuations in their weight from day to day, especially with this way of eating. We have some days with virtually no food in our systems, and other days when we're full. And that is not even taking into consideration that many of us have TOTM water-retention to deal with.

So, if you acknowledge these things, and chart your progress as MOB has mentioned he did, you should be fine with that system. I recommend weekly weigh-ins because so often, people weighing themselves more frequently post a bit of flailing because they've managed to "gain" 3 lbs over the course of a day, or whatever.

(and if you're wondering- you don't gain 3 lbs of fat in a day!)

For what it's worth, I weigh myself first thing in the morning, after a fast day. I realise this isn't my "real" weight as it doesn't include water and food in my system etc, but I've found that for me it's the best way to chart progress.

Liberty132 Tue 20-Nov-12 10:41:16

I have set up a graph on my laptop to complete daily - here goes!!!!

Fab41 Tue 20-Nov-12 11:39:16

Feeling much more focused on food after first fast day. I am currently 11st 7, would like to be closer to 10 stone, but I have always been hopeless at dieting as I am at home all day.
Last night I had a very small portion of butter bean chorizo stew, served on a side plate, so I didn't feel too hard done by. Will do my next fast on Thursday.

stclemens Tue 20-Nov-12 11:48:20

i've started this, third week now. Am struggling to think when to fit in my second fast day this week as have social engagements Wed/Thurs/Friday and Saturday is hard (no work to distract me).

also had question - is it better to keep calories relatively low on non-fast days (was tracking calories on non-fast days and amazed at how many in my Twix bar habit) or do you risk triggering starvation reflex There seem to be two schools of thought, feast or not feasting. I am not super overweight, just pudgy and conscious that my weight has gone from 7 stone in my twenties to 8 stone now in my mid-forties (possibly due to that Twix habit!).

ManOnBoard Tue 20-Nov-12 12:47:51

Daily weighing worked for me but with a BMI of 33.1 I had a lot to lose and there was an immediate benefit from this WOE, losing 9lbs in the first three weeks. This is the first time I had ever been on a "diet" so it just seemed logical to record how I was responding as well as markng all of my fast days and the over indulgent days too. When I record I note the weight in lbs, kilos and stones so every 5 kilos, 10 lbs or half a stone becomes my next target which works for me as it is a maximum of 7lbs away. My weight is always taken first thing in the morning and as I usally fast on Monday and Wednesday I do notice my weight changes ie last Monday I was 93.0kg, Thursday 90.7kg but this Monday 92.1kg.

A couple of weekends ago I did have a 3 day binge and, not unexpectedly, put on 3lbs but as many on here seem to agree I could not wait to get back on the wagon, did a 4:3 and by the following Monday had lost the 3lbs and 2 more besides.

Daily weighing may not be for everyone but were I to feel like I had strived for a month only for a set of scales to tell me differently can only be disheartening especially as it disregards thimgs like TOTM (cold shiver runs down my spine GE&N) and the extra water one might be holding. The scales are only a tool to monitor your weight and as someone else has already said you will hopefully see a downward trend by measuring daily rather than a single point that could distort your progress

ManOnBoard Tue 20-Nov-12 12:50:28

STARVATION MODE IS A MYTH Sorry for shouting

Hi all - did my first fast last Thurs and amd now on my second - nearly all my cals are gone for today but I am finding this an excellent exercise in mindful eating and using will power - which I lack.

I am currently 14st 4 think I may weigh every two weeks Height is 5ft 7 incase anyone interested dinner tonight is Pak Choi and Veg stir fry !

TalkinPeace2 Tue 20-Nov-12 13:30:31

And to reiterate that starvation mode is a myth
New Scientist has cottoned on ....
The edition that is in the shops at the moment, or if you have an online sub - LOTS of links to current research
makes the point that starvation mode only kicks in after four full days with no food at all ....

most interesting observation in the article was that the researchers all practice what they research, saving their big meals for sociable weekend.

ThinkICan Tue 20-Nov-12 13:44:45

Thanks for the link TalkinPeace. But for those who don't want to sign in, etc, here is the complete article:

TalkinPeace2 Tue 20-Nov-12 13:51:13

I wonder whether New Scientist know he's broken their copyright.
Ah well.
At least the links are there.

stclemens Tue 20-Nov-12 13:55:47

thanks! So should I feast or not feast? Is it is just the act of not eating or actual calorie restriction (average calorie intake per week) that gives the health benefits?

TalkinPeace2 Tue 20-Nov-12 13:57:19

Not feast - unless you are already very lean

The health benefit of fasting comes from taking a break from eating - aiming for 24 hours looks like the goal - while eating sensibly the rest of the time.

MoJoRegained Tue 20-Nov-12 13:57:25

Thanks for that TP2 - I usually buy New Scientist to read when travelling - I'll look out for this one.

On a fast day today, and making a big pot of vegetable broth. I find it's a great standby for miserable weather days like today.

Weighed myself this morning and was down another 1lb, making 16 in all. grin I tend to weigh myself around once a week, but not always. And even then sometimes the weight bounces up a bit, but I've learned not to worry about that.

A slow downward trend over many weeks is what I'm looking for. I don't want to lose weight too fast as I find post-menopausal skin takes time to adjust to covering a smaller amount of fat!

Saving money on food is all very well, but I'm spending more on body lotion. smile

stclemens Tue 20-Nov-12 13:58:59

thanks-am finding myfitnesspal strangely addictive but also scary.

ThinkICan Tue 20-Nov-12 14:00:05

And here's the study which is mentioned in the article saying that ADF over six months leads to reduced ability of the heart to pump blood. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932467. That's scary isn't it?

TalkinPeace2 Tue 20-Nov-12 14:06:31

That study would worry me a lot more if it had not missed out the biggest variable in human followers of ADF - the ability to do more cardiovascular exercise due to the weight loss resulting in a much healthier system.

I can swim a mile (1604 metres) in 38 minutes. How many seriously overweight people can? But once those people have lost the weight through ADF or 5:2, chances are any and all of them could.

Also a six month study in male rats is not the best study basis for middle aged women.

I'll await better research.

GreenEggsAndNichts Tue 20-Nov-12 14:21:52

As for people who lurk and sometimes post that they'd like to do this WOE but don't want to set bad examples for their children: My 3yo DS has just demanded salad. grin

(yes he had a normal lunch but he saw me eating salad again and was keen)

Non-fast day here, btw. I think it will be spag bol tonight. I'll be out in the late evening so I'd like something quick which will use some of the mince Ocado had on offer. smile

ThinkICan Tue 20-Nov-12 14:39:24

That's reassuring to hear TalkinPeace. Hope you or others on this WOL turn up something else on this topic during their research. I will look out too for any updates and keep you posted.

TalkinPeace2 Tue 20-Nov-12 14:43:42

I am a New Scientist subscriber - if its covered I'll find it :-)
Or in the Economist - who will cover such things because of the impact on the costs of health care
Or in Private Eye - because of quack medical columns
or just because I'm rather a news / data hound grin

my kids won't eat "salad" but they will eat "crudites" tee hee

Yeah TIC / TIP2 read that study a while back and it concerned me too. I cycle between 25-40 miles now most weekdays whether fasting or not. On the bike can't say I find any kind of a problem, in fact if I cycle after 3 days of normal eating I usualy feel less good than the day after a fast, but I have been noticing some issues around circulation in my feet and hands afterwards on occasions. Not scientific at all and might be related to other things. My blood pressure is markedly lower as well, sometimes as low as 110/60 and for someone who hit around 165/80 a year or two back that's some change.

The study on rats was indeed concerning/interesting but it has to be taken into consideration that 6 months in rats corresponds to nearly a decade in humans - I hope anyway.

So it does concern me, that and my low protien intake considering the physical activity I do. The problem with being involved with something like this at such an early stage is that there's still so much we need to know and the studies have not been done in sufficient number to give clear answers.

All I know is that I feel A LOT healthier, leaner, lighter and energetic now than I have done for many decades - But I also realise that there is a lot more research that needs to be done before we know the full impact on human male and female health

Happy fasting/feeding all smile

TalkinPeace2 Tue 20-Nov-12 14:54:52

In the side article in New Scientist they mentioned the benefits of not too much protein ....

and low blood pressure - my record, after running up three flights of stairs with a toddler on my hip and hugely pregnant was 80/50 grin the nurses were shock - it has now stabilised at around 100/60
and my Raynauds is unaffected by what I eat and drink ...

ThinkICan Tue 20-Nov-12 15:02:06

Thanks TIP2 and Cyclistist for keeping an eye out on all this. My ECG taken at my check up 3 weeks back did have 'diastolic dysfunction' mentioned. This was done 6 weeks after I started on ADF. The doctor said the dysfunction was nothing to worry about. I did tell my doctor about my fasting, but he had not heard of this and merely told me not to go in for any fads like the Atkins diet. That's why I'm slightly worried and will be thankful for any updates you come up with. My BMI has come down to 28.3 from 31.5, but some 30 lb to lose to get within a normal range, which is at least another 5 months and several stall/plateaus to contend with. Sigh...

standsonshiftingsands Tue 20-Nov-12 15:03:34

I think I may give this a go - sounds do-able and I am failing fast at attending Slimming World and all the rest.

I have just eaten the best part of half a packet of choccie digestives.


80/50 shock

Yep Raynauds is a possibility, I do have problems with my hands in the cold, meaning they bloody hurt.

The numbness and pins in needles in the feet though is new and my hands seem to be worse now than before. I have never been a fan of 'low caaaaarb' diets, low GI yes but low carb has always seemed to make no sense and been based on dodgy pseudo science. However my protien intake on fast days can't be much higher than 30-40 grams something that can't be good after cyclyng 30 miles up and down hills. I'll have a look at the New Scientist and check out the low protien article. Cheers

TalkinPeace2 Tue 20-Nov-12 15:10:47

Here's a silly thing to try - take a rucksack, and your bathroom scales into the kitchen. Now load 30lb of food tins into the rucksack, and pick it up. grin
Now think how much better your heart and lungs will function without having to carry that much excess around every day. wink
The risk to your cardio system of your excess weight is far far greater than a potential risk due to losing the weight by gradual fasting.

welcome and Go For It

ThinkICan Tue 20-Nov-12 15:26:19

Thank you so much TalkinPeace1. We try so hard to make things work and worry about rats and random studies! I'm going for broke and will harness your support to keep going - and that of Laska and GreenEggs and Cyclistist and all the others who are so positive. It means so much.

ThinkICan Tue 20-Nov-12 15:27:24

Oops, that should have been TalkinPeace2. Is there a TIP1 on this thread?

TalkinPeace2 Tue 20-Nov-12 15:32:25

I call myself TalkinPeace or TiP - its the name I use all over the web. But Mumsnet had a glitch and mangled the account so I put the 2 on the end !

Poppy1234 Tue 20-Nov-12 16:12:46

Day 2 of fasting and it really is much easier than anticipated. I've made a beef and vegetable casserole for dinner from the bbcgoodfood website, my calculations on myfitnesspal meant were about 100 calories higher than what was calculated by bbcgoodfood so I'm relieved I double checked. I am just loving myfitnesspal, who would have known my generous sprinkling of garam masala had a whopping 54 calories.

I've also made a vat of spicy tomato and lentil soup as I work Wednesday and Thursdays and I don't think I could manage without lunch in the office when everyone tucks in to lunch. I have rather madly decided to do 3 fast days in a row, I feel as if I'm in the zone and would rather get the days over and done with. I'm looking forward to comparing how I feel with 2 meals as compared to just 1.

Greeneggs my TDEE is low as I am short and really only have half a stone to lose. One question, if the fast calories limit is set at 500 based on a quarter of 2000, if you have a lower TDEE should the fast day allowance be lower? Really hoping the answer is no.

frenchfancy Tue 20-Nov-12 16:20:00

poppy however much garam masala did you put in? I have it at 12 cals per teaspoon.

3 fast days in a row is hard core! I can now manage 24 hours of complete fast, with a 500 cal meal at the end, but I couldn't do 3 days following.

It has been generally agreed here that whilst in principle a fast day is 25% of TDEE, in practice everyone sticking to 500 calories keeps the diet simple, which is one of its strengths.

GreenEggsAndNichts Tue 20-Nov-12 18:04:37

poppy as FF says, I'd just stick to 500. It's the number quoted in the studies I've read, and they made no specifications about size of the participants. Just that women had 500 and men had 600, and overall they lost x number of pounds, etc.

Laska42 Tue 20-Nov-12 19:11:17

Enforced fast today again after Sunday/ Monday so I'm heading for 'hardcore'.. but don't feel great about it .. .. I seem to have picked up a tummy upset and have been feeling really grim today , (though I have eaten some small things but its not getting any better so its mint tea and early night for me I think ) .. But since the only thing I ate yesterday was my turkey chilli , I think it must have been that..

I confess though I reckon its all my own fault .. I've been a bit daft (prepare to be shocked), but I made it last Wednesday ,and although it had been in the bottom of the fridge since then , really cool and smelled /looked fine.. I think it probably wasn't. I'm usually so careful about kitchen hygiene too.. The trouble I'd I made my 'usual amount (that is pre diet amount I suppose) .. and I'm just not eating so much any more ..so chucked the last of it away this morning, but hated doing it.. (and I have a freezer too.. What a silly twit I am) .

Look Cyclistist , you cant have Reynauds also! Get your birth certificate out ...there's something strange going on .. I want answers.grin.. I have to say though that although I like to get out on my bike sometimes.. it is sometimes not everyday ...impressed with your cycling habits

RE: fluctuating weight . .. last Friday i was 10st 3 having been around 10.4 for a while .. This morning, after a pretty healthy eating weekend , a 24hr total fast , 500cals then another16 hrs fast and a stomach upset I was 10.6 .. ... so No point worrying about it too much ..... it will go up and down during the week as said , but of course it s frustrating if you have an 'up' on WI day ..

But I cant stop this WOE now.. I've ebayed virtually all my size 12s and 14s grin

Poppy1234 Tue 20-Nov-12 19:14:42

Thank you so much for the reassurance, was having visions of having got the wrong end of the stick and merrily eating too much. It's much appreciated, must sit down and do some reading so I can stop with the inane questions.

French Fancy I used 4tsps in a pot of soup so the calories are probably similar based on your calculations I just never really associated herbs and spices with having any calories for reasons that are beyond me.

frootshoots Tue 20-Nov-12 19:44:56

Right, I'm in! Previously lost just under 7st on weight watchers, been at my goal weight of 10st since June 2011...but now I'm more like 10.7st on a good day! Want to get back to my goal before Christmas so I can indulge and not stumble into the next stone bracket!

So say I wanted to do 5:2... Starting tomorrow... And the last time I ate today was at 5pm not including the pack of mini Oreos half an hour ago, is that me fasting until the same time tomorrow? When I will then eat 500kcals max?

And what about on fasting days, is it really eat what you want or are we best still sticking to a low amount of calories? I usually lose weight eating 1200kcal per day, so would it be okay for me to eat that amount on non fasting days?

Thanks for any help!

rachelblythe Tue 20-Nov-12 20:07:19

Frootshoots - the fasting period is actually around 36hours. You have you last meal say tonight at 5pm then over tomorrow you can consume your 500cals, trying if you can to leave a minimum of 16 hours from your last meal today until you eat tomorrow. Over the course of tomorrow, spend your calories as you wish, but most try for 1big meal as lunch or preferably dinner, but you could have.2 meals, whatever your preference is to get you through the day. Then start eating normally again tomorrow. I would eat more than 1200 on your normal days, otherwise to me you're on a constant diet. Did you check out the TDEE calculator in the opening thread? That's a good indication of what you should be aiming for on a normal day. For me its between 1400-1800. sometimes more on a weekend. Best of luck

Evening Laska, yeah we certainly seem to be made of the same stuff grin . Although you seem to be made of sterner stuff when it comes to the fasting and I have a Y chromasome of course wink

dontcallmehon Tue 20-Nov-12 22:37:08

Can I just say that although this WOE is not recommended for former eating disorder sufferers, I have not once had the urge to binge or purge whilst following it. It has completely removed my bulimic tendencies and I suffered on and off, to varying degrees, for ten years. My appetite is normal now and my eating not related to my emotions.

squoosh Wed 21-Nov-12 00:03:18

This is my second week of 4:3. All fine aside from my less than fragrant breath. I presume this is the ketones at work? I like to do a full 24hr fast and save my calories tilll the evening so it means lots of water and some sugar free gum to try and aleviate the breath situation.

JH1967 Wed 21-Nov-12 07:13:31

Hi just found this thread and found info helpful. I did my first fast day yesterday did have headache at end of day, I guess not enough water.
Am following 5:2 fasting Tues and Thurs this week did not feel hungry yesterday until evening but kept myself busy and managed to get through, i ate 1 sl toast, cupasoup, satsuma, salmon fillet and broccoli. Was hungry this morning but had breakfast Wheetabix x 2 and ok now.
Will see how weight loss goes, not sure if 4:3 would be better!

Bordercollielover Wed 21-Nov-12 07:25:08

I am thinking that we might need to be careful about how some opinions are presented. Some of us have been on here since August and we all know that we are just a collection of, mainly, non medical and non scientific people who watched a programme and are trying out what seems to be a really good WOL. Although there isn't any definitive scientific knowledge any where else either I worry that a complete newcomer should be making their own considered opinions about issues such as osteoporosis and effects on heart function. Of course we need to be sharing ideas and offering support and advice but where potentially serious medical issues are concerned I think we just need to be wary of misrepresenting our ideas as fact.
No intention to upset anyone, just a thought about how we word things for the benefit of those who are new to the thread.

jo1958 Wed 21-Nov-12 07:51:09

Hello, I've decided to delurk. I've been doing this since September and reading these threads all along. I'm one of the older, peri menopausal bunch and I've been stuck now for a month. I'm just, having lost about 8 lbs, in a normal BMI but want to lose another half stone to be comfortable.

To be honest, I do little exercise, although I'm reasonably active at work, and I eat too many calories on non fast days so I know exactly why I'm stuck!!

I got so excited about being able to bake , guilt free, after decades of Weightwatchers, gaining and losing the same stone and a half, that I've cooked, and eaten, too much cake. And biscuits. And trying to bake then eating bread ..

I'm, finally, trying to pay more attention to my down days nutrition and doing 3:4 this week instead of 5:2 .

Thank you for the thread , it's even brilliantly helpful so far

jo1958 Wed 21-Nov-12 07:52:33

Been brilliantly helpful, not 'even' !

frenchfancy Wed 21-Nov-12 08:12:04

Bordercollielover I think you are absolutely right. We are all making this up as we go along. Even Dr M doesn't really have all the answers.

TellMeLater Wed 21-Nov-12 08:26:45

Yes bordercollie doesn't do too well to suggest that any of us are experts - fasting may well produce many health benefits but the true costs may not be apparent especially for woman.
We are all may be experimenting here but I think there will be a certain amount of bias on these threads towards the positive and successes - i think people who fail are less likely to post and not forgetting how evangelical people can become about their diet, there is a tendency to dismiss the downsides where they exist and focus on the positives, doubt can not be allowed to creep in.

standsonshiftingsands Wed 21-Nov-12 08:31:18


I'm going to give this a go, starting with a fast today, so will fast Weds and and possibly Saturday this week.

What would you usually eat on a fast day - I have some fruit for lunch and a low fat yoghurt?

I'll read through the thread when I have more time (at work!) but I presume you shouldn't go completely mad on your non-fast days too?

With thanks - great thread.

Man this thread moves fast!!!! well done all, yet more fab success stories, and really positive posts.

Without going back to read the last of the prev thread, I can't remember names, but a big thanks to all those who thought of me on Saturday having to have my 19 yr old puss put to sleep. It was not at all how I had niavely imagined, a gentle drift into unconsciousness; more a horrible struggle against having her fur cut, and a needle in her forearm where there was no flesh, then sudden shocking death = really, really horrible, but sadly the only option sad.

Needless to say I was in no state Sunday for a 500 day; I have no problem with the fasting, have managed 20/22 hours several times over the last couple of weeks with no difficulties, it is more how things have been of late I have been a little too reliant on a fortifying drink of an evening [embarrassed confession emoticon].

However, YAY, did my first 500 day yesterday for about a fortnight, after fearing that I had lost the plot and wouldn't ever manage it again! Must admit it was hard, I was a total mare all day, no more of a growly bear! Although hormones have a fair part in that. I managed it though, don't think I even had my full 500 and feel so much better today, I love that postfast feeling.

Onwards and upwards! I feel that things are definitely on the up; have managed to arrange for mum and dad to be in Lanzarote the same time as us, I'm sure 2 weeks in the sun will really set him up. Also, someone very kindly gave me some money on the understanding that I spent it on something nice and not bills. So I'm taking some of it on holiday so that we can eat out a couple of times, and I'm buying a Blackberry playbook with the rest -oh, and some new slippers!!!!

Have a good one everybody, keep up the good work.

Hi standingonshiftingsands good luck with this WOL. For me Veg rather than fruit on fasting days, the advantage with veg being the lower sugar content therefor you get to eat more for your calories. But I eat plenty of fruit on Non-fast days.

On fast days I generally drink various teas till around 2 or 3 in the afternoon then have a cuppasoup. For dinner at around 8.00 I'll have a soup then plenty of veg, mainly Cabbage, green beans, broccoli, carrots with some kind of protein (tuna or white fish or lean beef or a WW mince beef hotpot).

... on Non-fast days I eat a hell of a lot but include in that a lot of wholemeal toast, branflakes, oatmeal, fruit and veg. My calorie intake on Nonfast days is upwards of 3200 at the moment but I am pretty active on the bike and tbh since going to 5:2 my weightloss has slowed dramatically. Whilst doing 4:3 from August to late October I lost 30lbs, have lost a pound or so since.

The important thing with this WOL (imho) is to do what suits you and not beat yourself up if things don't work out at any stage. As Piebaldrider and others say, if it ain't working try mixing things up and doing things differently for a while.

I agree with Bordercollielover regarding the caution. People like me who have had a lot of success with ADF, 4:3 etc can get carried away and 'evangelical' , but we are not experts and the body reacts in hugely complex way to it's environment and what we do to it. What might be good for weightloss may be bad for something else and what may be good for one type of cancer may increase your chances of another etc etc. So I always try to keep my feet on the ground (although I don't always succeed hmm ) and stay 'fairly objective' which is why I'm always trawling the web for info on this and why I find this thread so useful.

Hi to all the newcommers out there and de-lurkers - welcome smile

Happy fasting/feeding all

Bordercollielover Wed 21-Nov-12 09:08:51

The biggest hug for you, sexbomb, you did the hardest thing and took responsibility for your dear friend's end.
Have a fab holiday.

Laska42 Wed 21-Nov-12 09:28:55

As we've been discussing weight ups and downs I weighed again today , and back down to 10.3 ....and being ill .. from the 10.6 I was yesterday morning after 24hr fast and tummy bug.....

but im not doing anything for this WOE today , i just want to feel well again. Just had my eggs this morning and whatever this tummy bug is ive got its doesnt seem to be getting any better.. as soon as I eat .. it hurts.. Any ideas chaps ?

standsonshiftingsands Wed 21-Nov-12 09:43:15

The cyclistist - thanks very much for taking the time to reply. I think I might need to do 4:3 to get a decent weight loss, but maybe I need to take one day at a time for now.

literarygeek Wed 21-Nov-12 09:52:57

laska feel better soon. If you have d or v, advice is lots of dioralyte or flat coke. If not, then try really bland food like boiled potatoes, toast. Avoid dairy for now, and protein.

Hi Laska , There's a stomach bug doing the rounds at the mo so you might have to grin and bear it.

But if you did manage to poison yourself with a dodgy Turkey Chilli smile try finely cutting up some fresh garlic cloves and eating them (most garlic tablets are not as effective as uncooked garlic) not overly easy to do especially if you're at work but garlic is VERY good at killing bacteria. If garlic on its on own is unbearable try putting it on a small chunk of cheese.

Good Luck

Hi Standsonshiftingsand , yeah one day at a time, and when things get tough today, remember it's just for today smile tomorrow food will taste GREAT.

Laska42 Wed 21-Nov-12 10:36:56

oh ,cyclistist please ..the very thought of garlic.....sad.. I cant even face thethought of the Franks either shock. I must be ill..

That's the odd thing literarygeek..nausea cramps ..but no d or v. otherwise id know what to do . ...perhaps it is a bug after all.. flat coke though.. yes I remember that now ..
Oh well enough about that..

Good reminder up thread about no one here being an expert or really knowing how its going to pan out re health benefits.. We ARE the research project

(Right now I don't think I'm going to live any longer ..WOE or not .. didn't go into work today and its sunny though .. I think ill walk down and get a newspaper a can of coke .. bleugh! hate the stuff.....and some fresh air.. )

literarygeek Wed 21-Nov-12 11:29:43

Wow where are you, laska? Wish it were sunny here!

Laska42 Wed 21-Nov-12 11:44:12

literarygeek Isle of Wight , but I spoke too soon! It must have been a break in the rain..or a quirk of my poor addled brain today.. Its now blowing a hooley and I just got soaked..

GreenEggsAndNichts Wed 21-Nov-12 11:47:25

Good morning everyone. smile

No, none of us are experts, which is why pretty much any time I answer a question here, I preface it with "this is what I've found with my own personal experience" or something along those lines. I'm starting to think I should just put the disclaimer in bold in the OP. grin

And keep that comment in mind when I suggest looking at the Genesis diet if you are worried about your calcium intake (which might be one of the reasons for the osteoporosis concerns with this WOE.

Today is a fast day here, and I've done nothing but plan Thanksgiving food. smile I'll do pumpkin pie tomorrow but I think we won't have the proper dinner til the weekend. That way I can have turkey and cranberry sandwiches the next day!

TalkinPeace2 Wed 21-Nov-12 12:03:33

While swimming this morning I was thinking about the Rat study (that was in the New Scientist article) and realised that this is a Way of Eating that will be very hard to model in the lab.

You have a pet. One day you do not feed it.
It does not know that food will return as normal tomorrow.
So its stress hormones skyrocket, setting off all sorts of cascades as it gets hungrier.

A person decides not to eat one day.
By hour 23 they feel tired, hungry, but triumphant that they have done it.
And the endorphin cascades through their system will have secondary effects on metabolism etc etc.
And as an overweight person gets leaner, those feedback loops will be reinforced even further.

I assume there are cohort studies going on, among which are increasing numbers of intermittent fasters, but the data sets are going to take a long time to come out.

In the mean time, these threads are practically a scientific resource - as researchers could easily find each of us, we have no incentive to lie, and every incentive to search for answers.

literarygeek Wed 21-Nov-12 12:54:15

Just wanted to share a site I found, guys. It's called blogilates.com and it's run by a sweet, VERY perky pilates instructor. But not too annoying.

The reason I share is because there's loads of free workout videos on there - mostly pilates but also plenty of cardio and HIIT. I just found it this week but have already learned lots of new moves. There's lots on there so I don't think I will get too bored (having given up on my postnatal boot camp routine after 60 days. Only so much mixing and matching a girl can do...)

Breadandwine Wed 21-Nov-12 13:02:39

Agree with the whole 'expert' thing. We're all just feeling our way.

Can I remind posters of the Tips and Links thread where we collect any research that posters turn up.

There are several links up-thread that really need to be on there - if I have time later I'll trawl back and find them. But if you've just posted something relevant here, it's the work of a moment to cut and paste it onto the other thread.

Thanks! smile

I'm still losing weight - now over a stone and a half - and my BMI is 20.66. So I don't want to lose any more. I flirted with 6:1 but wasn't totally happy with it, so I've gone back to 5:2 - but trying to eat more on my eating days. I have thought perhaps I should include a 'feast' day once a week, where I really pig out.

Another thought - I'm so used to being sparing with olive oil, for instance, or eating less carbs, etc. I'll just have to try and get used to having bigger portions on my eating days and just forget about weight maintenance. It's a whole different mindset.

This may not seem relevant to you, if you've still got weight you want to shift - but, judging by the welter of encouraging stories on these threads, you'll be joining me sometime in the future, I'm sure!

Best wishes to all!

ManOnBoard Wed 21-Nov-12 13:16:51

TP2 Even in DrM's programme, the mouse sction was only partly relevant and it was the results in humans that convinced me to try this WOE. The point that TheCyclistist made about the 20:1 rat:human life expectancy and also the 5:1 heart rate makes 24 hours more equivalent to a human week. There was always going to be research that gave a downside to this WOE but I have found not noticed one yet. My overall consumption has reduced but the nutritional values of what I eat has improved dramatically and I have far less fat and sugar in my diet, as I don't fancy it, which must be a huge benefit to my heart. My right knee used to occasionally buckle slightly and ache after a long walk but has not done since my weight reduced. On an earlier post you did say that this study was questionable in comparing it to middle aged women although I did notice that you did not discount the comparison between rats and men.

mob grin I'm sure it was merely a slip hmm

literarygeek Wed 21-Nov-12 13:39:02

MOB "I did notice that you did not discount the comparison between rats and men" tee hee...

B&W thanks for the reminder. Done.

Wrt the osteoporosis concerns mentioned- I have always been mindful of this- don't want to get fractures when I am older, I am short enough as it is.

I have always taken a calcium and vit d and magnesium supplement. But I also try to eat lots of green veggies like kale- great for calcium. I also do lots of weight-bearing exercise.

It's interesting to me that we in the west, with very high dairy intakes, have high osteoporosis rates. High dietary protein, particularly animal protein is linked to higher rates of calcium excretion by the kidneys. This has been known for some time, as you can see here

Bordercollielover Wed 21-Nov-12 14:27:47

Hmmm. Have we been deliberately set up to become a voluntary experiment? All it would take is a popular programme which suggests a possible method of losing weight..........and a ready made communication forum!!

Poppy1234 Wed 21-Nov-12 15:22:16

Day 3 in a row and it's my first day in the office this week and I'm finding it hard. I'm not sure if having lunch has made it more difficult than the past two days where However, I think I actually prefer it to the thought of having a day off and then having to return to fasting again the day after.

I'm very much looking forward to tomorrow. I was considering having an intermediate day tomorrow leaving me free for an enjoyable, calorie counting free weekend.

Has anyone tried 3 days fasting, 1 low calorie/intermediate day, 1 normal day and 1 feast day?

Maybe I shouldn't get carried away and just stick with 4:3 and 4 relatively normal days calorie wise until I reach target.

squoosh Wed 21-Nov-12 15:24:37

Three fasting days in a row?

Wow, I definitely couldn't manage that. I do Mon, Wed, Fri.

Breadandwine Wed 21-Nov-12 15:29:26

Isn't it great that you've got the freedom to choose, Poppy? smile

My SonIL raised an interesting question over the weekend:

Apart from weight watching, is there any need to limit the meal after a 24 hour fast to >500 or >600? Is there any evidence to say we should stick to those amounts? Not sure I've seen any, but I may have missed it.

ManOnBoard Wed 21-Nov-12 16:11:31

Poppy When I first started this WOE I was full of enthusiasm and fasted 11 days in 27 but decided as I was in this for the long term that this was a little too drastic so stuck to 5:2. The benefits may take a little longer but you would have more flexibility and hopefully it will just become routine

B&W The idea that you do not have to stick to 500cals is something that we have discussed before and that the consensus is that you stay within the limits from waking in the morning to going to sleep at night. You do know that there is no evidence yet as full trials have not yet been completed however you seem intent on ruining the simplicity of this WOE

Bordercollielover Wed 21-Nov-12 16:58:18

poppy1234, DrM initially did a 3 ( or was it 4 ?) day fast with nothing but a cuppa soup each day. I don't think he commented on the weight loss aspect but he did get good blood test results, However he had lost these good effects ina surprisingly short time, although I can't remember how long it was. I don't think he ever established the frequency of 3 day fasting that would be needed to maintain the improvements as he then shifted to 5:2 which he found easier.

Madhouse2012 Wed 21-Nov-12 19:23:44

I understood it that he initially fasted for 3 days with a 50cal cup soup daily, his blood levels were greatly reduced but did return sometime after. He looked at the adf but decided it was not for him, he wasn't really in it for weight loss more the health benefits, the 5:2 studies had shown very good health benefits, mainly reduced cholesterol, blood pressure, sugar levels and IGF-1 which would mean reduced risk of heart disease, stroke and some cancers.
At 45 I think i am probably much older than many of you on here? And I am doing the 5:2 mainly for the health benefits as my bp and cholesterol are slightly high, not needing meds though. Shifting half a stone is an added bonus hopefully for me. For those of you wanting to lose weight this diet should work, but depending on how much you will need to tweak your feasting days accordingly, personally I don't like the idea of purely fasting for more than a day at a time, not cutting out anything drastic, everything in moderation is my motto with 500 cals twice a week. Just be careful not to do anything too drastic that could cause you harm, stay safe on it everyone.

Skinnyeye Wed 21-Nov-12 19:47:28

Hi all it's a really busy week for me so have been a bit quiet but still managing to keep up with the thread - just!!

I would like to make a couple of points
we are certainly not experts just sharing our own fasting experience and observations.

If there are trials going on it's only a matter of time before they find us - I managed it how hard can it be?

I agree with Madhouse nothing too drastic and stay safe! We have a set of guidelines to follow and strong anecdotal evidence that they work. We may be storing up health credits or debits for later life - we don't actually know. The only thing we can be certain of is that staying overweight will have a negative impact on our health both physical and emotional.

I for one am willing to take the risk.

Laska42 Wed 21-Nov-12 19:56:42

Nope Madhouse You're only a babe.. lots of post menopause Cougar women and geriatric old blokes 'distinguished' men here! (Laska ducks) grin

Don't bash me boys!! .. I'm ill! ...... Stomach still not getting any better so its got to be a bug I think..DH not well either and he didn't have the chilli . Tried bland potato and coke. looks like I'm going to have to brave the Peptobismol I think ( shudder! any Oldies here remember Kaolin ans Morphine?.. brings back nightmares from my childhood and PB is not much better ) and think ill have to do another day without food..

So its another early night for me more mint tea and book I think

Laska42 Wed 21-Nov-12 20:01:03

.. oh..and JIC you are wondering... I am talking about the fizzy drink Coke here .. not a line or two in the bathroom .. and yes its true .. in the old days they used to give kids a mixture of white clay and Morphine for tummy upsets.. (bleugh)

Bordercollielover Wed 21-Nov-12 20:18:48

Kaolin and morph..........mmmmm!
I can see 60.

Madhouse2012 Wed 21-Nov-12 20:20:27

I'm only a Babe!! Ooh love it thank you smile kaolin and morphine is excellent for animals as well as people! Flat coke is very good for belly ache, hope you feel better soon.

Poppy1234 Wed 21-Nov-12 20:21:43

Thanks everyone for the advice, 3 days in a row has been tough but not as bad as I anticipated, my thinking is that I would like to do 4:3 until I reach target (I wouldn't be known for my patience) and relax into 5:2 and ultimately 6:1.

If I want to do 4:3 I only have 4 days to fit it in as the weekend (including Friday) is a fast free zone so I may as well do 3 days in a row. Hopefully that babbling makes sense. I also openly admit to being very shallow and I'm doing this solely to get rid of that pesky last half a stone while still enjoying everything I love (cake, wine etc), the health benefits are an added advantage but not my primary motivation.

I must say this is such a lovely and supportive group.

ThinkICan Thu 22-Nov-12 01:04:11

"The point that TheCyclistist made about the 20:1 rat:human life expectancy and also the 5:1 heart rate ..." Seem to have missed that. Can you repeat what you said Cyclistist or give the link where you came across this info? Still worrying about the New Scientist reference to research on effects of ADF on heart function, as you can see! And I realise TiP2 and you are geniuses in turning up relevant research.

ThinkICan Thu 22-Nov-12 01:09:46

literarygeek - there's been a lot of research on the need for sunshine and vitamin D to prevent osteoporosis. In fact my GP asked me to make sure I get 15 minutes of morning or evening sunshine to set the body clock and ensure bone and hormone health.

Bordercollielover Thu 22-Nov-12 06:37:50

Thinks an, is that real or artificial sunshine? I never see the sun in winter term time!

literarygeek Thu 22-Nov-12 07:30:20

Sure, thinkican - vitamin d is needed for calcium absorption and therefore has a role in bone health. That's why I take it as a supplement (800 iu) and also make sure the vitamins I give my daughters contain it.

BCL agree, very hard to ensure adequate vit d- take a supplement in winter. In London, rickets is on the rise and a couple of years back, the advice to GPs was to routinely supplement all babies born. Never happens, of course.

literarygeek Thu 22-Nov-12 07:53:36

Just to say, over on tips and links, there's some really helpful stuff, including some info skippyscuffleton found which a blogger got directly from the 4 Horizon scientists. Worth a look.

G'mornin Thinkican , I think what TiP was referring to were my comments on the relative lifespans of humans and rats. The rats in question in the experiment followed ADF for 6 months, that as a proportion of a rats life to a humans life probably corresponds to about a decade.

Unfortunately nothing more to add than that.

On a fasting day today........so looking forward to tomorrow morning smile

Have a great day fasters and feasters

Thelittlestranger Thu 22-Nov-12 09:44:11

Top of the morning to you :-) well, not any more...who would have thought it would result in 6lbs gain over the weekend!! Phew. It was the first in a year, but still...

Anyway, the good news is I kept on, did my two fast days on Monday and Wednesday battling a cold too, and not only lost the temporary fluid retention gain, but have lost another 1lb and finally reached my first target of pre-pregnancy weight!! Whoop!!

Laska, think of the food you can eat when you feel better....hope it goes soon.

Poppy, hard core! Do you think you'll be able to manage 3 consecutive days every week? For me, the beauty of this way of eating is that I don't have to feel like I'm depriving myself...

Right off to body combat...

Sputnik Thu 22-Nov-12 10:33:42

Just thought I'd check in as I haven't shown my face on here for a month. Still doing 5:2, though I was on holiday and skipped a week, then skipped last week too as I wasn't feeling well but no problem at all getting back into it. Weight maintained so that's ok.
Will try and keep up now!

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 10:35:54

Vitamin D : I get lots because I swim outdoors year round. A friend who suffers from SAD or winter depression has pretty much cured it by joining the outdoor pool gang.
For those not mad enough to swim outdoors when its below zero, the best thing to do is to take the opportunity to go for a 'yomp' whenever the sun comes out. Twenty minutes raking up leaves, or sweeping the drive or walking quickly with face and arms exposed will get you a hit of vitamin D and do your circulation a world of good.

Fasting today - so far done 2km swim, now paperwork and coffee.

squoosh Thu 22-Nov-12 10:37:40

Can I chime in and say that taking a Vitamin D supplement daily has all but cured my psoriasis. Vit D deficiency is now being linked to a host of autoimmune conditions including MS.

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 10:41:24

Oh yes, I forgot to mention my now lack of psoriasis ....

literarygeek Thu 22-Nov-12 11:14:11

TiP2 that's brave and amazing.

squoosh yes, it is pretty wonderful stuff!

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 11:17:49

its a heated pool .... I'm not as mad as a friend who has swum in the sea every day for the last 30 years .... and it does mean I have a serious year round tan grin

just a walk round the block in the sunshine helps (the sun has come out here for the first time in days)

MoomieAndFreddie Thu 22-Nov-12 11:47:56

<joins thread>

ceebeegeebies Thu 22-Nov-12 12:42:13

I am very interested in this diet - one quick question, I have had a quick look at the blog post and that says you can eat one meal at lunchtime of 500 calories on the fast days - is that the case or can you spread your 500 cals out over the day?

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 12:43:43

it is much, much easier to delay eating as long as you can and have the whole 500 at once as otherwise your tummy starts to rumble
(am fasting today, so far two cups of tea and an apple and two pints of water)

ceebeegeebies Thu 22-Nov-12 12:52:05

Mmm not eating is not a strong point of mine - I am a terrible snacker but that explains why I am at least 2 stone overweight sad

ceebeegeebies Thu 22-Nov-12 12:52:32

Sorry, another question - do you not feel as if you want to pass out on the 'fasting' days??

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 13:13:10

No - because so long as you stay busy and hydrated your body can easily pull on reserves to get you through.
Hunger pangs are NOT something to be afraid of. They subside.
I find fasting days to be my most productive as I have to stay away from the kitchen and busy ....

))))))Snacking((((((( stop buying that sort of food - its the only way sadly!
OR start logging your non fast days into MyFitnessPal and decide whether you want a bag of doritos or a whole supper of veggie stir fry ...

ceebeegeebies Thu 22-Nov-12 13:16:01

Talkin thanks for the advice. Has it worked (or is it working) for you? How much weight have you lost over what period?

squoosh Thu 22-Nov-12 13:17:40

ceebee You'll be surprised after the first couple of fast days how un-famished you feel. I keep all my 500 calories until around 7pm and by that time I'm definitely hungry but not out of mind ravenous. Your body adjusts quite quickly.

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 13:22:13

I've lost a stone since the start of term. Am now pretty slim.

ceebeegeebies Thu 22-Nov-12 13:30:10

I think you have hit the nail on the head and I think I am scared of hunger pangs so try and head them off by snacking - I have always been like this and it is a habit I need to break.

My mum is doing the diet and she has 4 small snacks throughout the day - not sure if this is the right thing to do though confused

I really do need to do something and other diets just aren't shifting the weight - I do exercise a lot but could do the fasting on my non-gym days otherwise I really would pass out grin

ManOnBoard Thu 22-Nov-12 13:54:03

CBGBs As TP2 says you will find the hunger passes very quickly but you are right about the snacks but once you have fasted a couple of times you should notice the urges were just habit not need. The amount of times I still wander in to the kitchen and then question myself as to whether I want something or not and now decide not. You can have your 500cals in one meal or spread out over the day but most of us find that delaying as long as possible works best. We have all been repeatedly told that breakfast is the most important meal of the day but all it seems to do is awaken your appetite rather than suppressing it. Find what works for you and good luck

NatashaMousse Thu 22-Nov-12 13:54:05

To all those who have felt unwell and fallen off the 5:2 wagon as result, let me suggest that taking things in the opposite direction - not eating at all - might be the way to go. While researching the 5:2 concept, I did a lot of reading about fasting in general. As a number of people have already pointed out, it's a time-honoured practice with a history of benefits, physical and otherwise. What was new to me was the amount of evidence, old and recent, that extended fasts have cured intractable conditions. That it takes 16 hours without food for the body to move into repair mode is not a new discovery by any means. The ancient Greeks prescribed fasting as a reliable, effective treatment for physical ailments.

After one 500-calorie day, I switched to 6:1, doing a 30-36-hour complete fast on that one day. (I've been taking care not to lose weight, so I can't say how well that scheme would work for weight loss.) When I started the first of the complete fasts (water and green tea only), my stomach had been feeling off for a while - hard to describe, not really nauseous, but icky - and bicarb and few other standard remedies weren't helping. Going without food seemed to take care of the problem. A food-less day left me feeling good, hungry but clear and energetic. That was enough to keep doing it. With three complete fasts under my belt, I intend to stick with it, although I'm open to modifying the plan if I can find information about more effective arrangements for obtaining the health benefits that Mosley's presentation dangled before us. Like everyone else here, I long for more applicable data.

I'm just another guinea pig (although preceded by countless folks who've used water fasts to restore health), but I wanted to toss out the idea that being ill might be an opportunity to intensify 5:2 efforts rather than a reason to ease up. As good as comfort food may feel, it may be counterproductive, not just to the new WOE but to recovery.

HelgatheHairy Thu 22-Nov-12 13:56:50

Had my hardest ever fasting day yesterday. It had been 5 days since my previous fast day and I spend most of the day sooo hungry in a way that's NEVER happended before. I'd been away for the weekend and eaten and drank lots so think my body had gotten used to expecting food. And it complained a lot when it wasn't getting any! Ended up eating dinner at 3 (usually make it till 5 or 6) and a cup a soup at 8. Was tempted so many times to just throw in the towel but I didn't.

Out of curiosity I weighed myself this morning and it looks like I've broken through my 3 week plateau of 11 3ish. Was 11 1.4 with another fast day to go!

Next week I'm going to try 4:3 Monday, Wednesday & Friday. See how much I can shift in the run up to Christmas.

NatashaMousse Thu 22-Nov-12 14:00:58

ceebee, what I've discovered is that hunger is just a sensation. And, as sensations go, it beats feeling stuffed. Sometimes it comes and goes, sometimes it's a steady non-stop kind of thing. But in other respects I feel good enough on foodless days - clear, calm, with plenty of energy for doing whatever I want - that I don't care to jeopardize it by eating.

TellMeLater Thu 22-Nov-12 15:01:33

talkinpeace you've done really well on your weightloss, when will you start eating normal amounts? i read on the other thread that you were only eating 1300kcal on feed days with 1800kcal at weekends - what are your plans for maintenance, do you intend to continue calorie counting?

Poppy1234 Thu 22-Nov-12 15:27:51

Woop first eating day after 3 fast days, hoping to keep it as an intermediate day before relaxing at the weekend, I didn't eat breakfast as I really wasn't hungry and had some left over fast day soup for lunch but I pimped it up with feta cheese and lots of yoghurt and it was absolutely gorgeous.

For those who are starting or planning to start next week, this has been my first week but I agree it has been so much easier to save calories and have 1 larger meal at the end of the day. I think this approach works so well as appetite isn't triggered and I think it helps with not thinking about food all day too.

Laska42 Thu 22-Nov-12 15:37:16

Did some measuring today . .only about an inch off the boobs since starting this WOE but waist has gone down 4 inches since August to 30 .. but lost 3 off my my hips and at 34 they are now the same as my waist was in August!

Well its my shape I suppose.. am top heavy and so its always going to be like this whatever weight I am , trouble is my new size 10 jeans are a bit baggy in the bum now..sad

Was 18 lbs down on WI this morning (though will still do my 'official' Friday WI tomorrow as usual) .. though of course some of that could easily be the tummy bug .. Not eating today ... but also feeling much better today and hopefully a day without food will get rid of this stomach bug once and for all..

good luck all fasters today ..

Mintyy Thu 22-Nov-12 15:39:58

I prefer to eat two small meals on fast days. I get hungry to the point of nausea by 1pm.

Had New Covent Garden pea & ham soup today - lovely for 156 calories.

Laska42 Thu 22-Nov-12 15:43:35

I love pea and ham soup mintyy and the thought of that hasmade me feel hungry for the first time this week.. May have to go down the shop and see if they have any..

tiggy114 Thu 22-Nov-12 15:57:11

Marking my place. Think i might give this a go smile

Me too. Can I just confirm that the best way is 5 days normal and 2 fasting. On the 2 fasting days eat one 500 cal meal in the evening?

Breadandwine Thu 22-Nov-12 16:11:57

That's it in a nutshell, sausage!

catsrus Thu 22-Nov-12 16:19:55

Well yesterday was supposed to be a fast day - but the corporate lunch was a different caterer... and I was hungry after drinking wine the night before (yes I know I had already identified that as an issue!!!) so I turned it into a non fast day and have fasted today instead.

For newbies - I find if I am out of the house and busy I can go all day just on tea (with milk) and black coffee then eat one meal when I get home. If I'm around the house (day off today) then I can't manage that and make a pot of something veggie and soupy/stewy/curry-ish. So today I had a couple of ounces of cottage cheese at lunch and a soup bowl full of a veggie curry (made with squash, marrow, celery, carrot, swede, apple and a can of tomatoes). I will eat the same thing for supper and freeze the rest in portions for other fast days. Keeping a good supply of portion sized healthy meals has been important for me. 18lbs lost since August, very healthy BMI but need to get my waist measurement down to below 32 blush.

I would say don't be afraid to experiment with what works for you - it seems it can be flexible, different people have done different things and have lost weight, others (like me) mix up their own practice and have lost weight. I do a minimum of 5:2 but aim for 4:3 - and I generally do manage 3 fast days.

Someone mentioned not liking hunger pangs - some of us have found we like the feeling! Talking to my skinny friend about this over wine she said she'd never thought about it before [duh emoticon] but she often doesn't eat until the evening and does eat a lot less the day after a meal out - oh and yes, actually she does quite like that slight feeling of hunger. This does seem to be how some 'naturally thin' people stay thin but still enjoy their food.

catsrus Thu 22-Nov-12 16:21:52

I do find the days when I don't eat until the evening are more satisfying though - I don't think of food and I know that my body is in repair mode so good things are happening "behind the scenes".

Madhouse2012 Thu 22-Nov-12 17:09:14

I started this a week ago, weighed myself today and have lost 3lb and 1.5% body fat, woop woop!!

ThinkICan Thu 22-Nov-12 17:30:24

Thank you Cyclistist for clarifying about rat vs human life spans. Makes a lot of sense. And yes, sunshine is best and supplements work when you can't get the real thing. Also, as TiP2 puts it, it's so much better to work at this than carry a gargantuan 50 lbs extra. I was doing that till I started on this WOL. Further, I've discovered so many healthy veggies that I'd never bothered about. The blood test showed that 6 weeks of healthy eating had done wonders for all the assorted minerals, sugar levels and what not. So, those who are struggling, just keep at it. It's worth it, whether you lose weight or not.

Helga - here's what I saw on one of my internet rambles: "People holding at a plateau weight using Fast-5 have reported having increased hunger just before the weight loss begins, so try to think of increasing hunger as a good thing." So grit your teeth and get through the pangs of hunger and you'll see the weight loss speeding up again!

ThinkICan Thu 22-Nov-12 17:33:39

I think I'm addicted to our group and the posts by so many inspiring people. I can't wait to get to the computer when I return home to see what else is new, how everyone's faring, what someone has dug up that will help all of us grin

HelgatheHairy Thu 22-Nov-12 17:55:04

thinkican that's really interesting. Thanks for that.

frenchfancy Thu 22-Nov-12 18:00:31

ThinkICan Me too. I check this thread before I check my e-mails blush.

Fasting today, decided to have soup at lunch today even though I've done 24 hours for the last couple of fasts. I wasn't actually hungry at lunchtime, but i had the soup anyway as today's dinner is only 300 cals (butternut squash casserole - yum). Doing a couple of 24 hours seems to have made a "normal" fast day even easier. For the vast majority of today I forgot I was fasting and just got on with work. I've been finding fasting easier and easier, but this is the first time I genuinely haven't thought about it all day.

ceebeegeebies Thu 22-Nov-12 19:31:13

Thanks for all the responses and encouragement - I am starting tomorrow with a 'fast' day smile One last question (I promise) - what can you drink on fast days? I am not a tea or coffee drinker but I do drink diet coke but I assume all the crap artificial sweeteners in there will not be acceptable. Can you drink low-calorie squash or will I have to stick to water??

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 19:35:44

I'm a very light build and not heavy so my TDEE is under 2000 a day even allowing for the amount I go to the gym. BUT I love to have a drink at the weekend. So will stick with 5:2 and light meals in the week and gastronomic weekends for the forseeable future. Also DH has a ways to go so I'll keep him company.

Tonight's supper was a 2 egg mushroom and red onion omelette with a sprinkling of coarse grated parmesan and then a banana. Am now stuffed.

Skinnyeye Thu 22-Nov-12 19:39:43

After weeks of very easy 24 hour fasts I struggled at times today. Really hungry but made it through the 3rd fast of the week - even though my meal ended up at 540 cals. I didn't take my specs to the shop and can't read nutritional info without them. I could have left a little but...

Bordercollielover Thu 22-Nov-12 19:40:34

Ceebeegeebies: there are no definitive rules on this. Some people count the calories in their drinks,others are more concerned with avoiding triggering a release of insulin. Caffeine and the lactic acid in milk cause an insulin response as well as the more obvious sugars and starches.

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 19:42:30

if you can face herbal teas they suit many people
I am very anti 'diet' drinks but they suit others
have you tried warm squash - surprisingly nice on a cold day

Can I ask what you do if you get to the shakey hunger stage?

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 19:49:10

pint of water or mug of black coffee or a raw carrot slowly munched (whole) and wait for it to pass - which it will surprisingly fast as your body clicks onto another source of energy

In the New Scientist article it talks about energy usage
First - the sugars and fats in the bloodstream - they last about 12 hours after food
Second - the easy sugars and fats from the liver - an hour or so
Third - stripping fat out of long term store (ie muffin top)
so in this WOE, every fast day you are telling your body to use, and get in the habit of using, that long term store
which may well be why people are getting size loss quicker than weight loss - because the fat cells are shrinking but not being absorbed just yet.

Thanks talkin. Good that I take my coffee black. I think I might give this a shot next week. Need to be prepared for my 500 cal evening meal.

AppleOgies Thu 22-Nov-12 20:04:34

Newbie to weight loss. I've had the shock of my life when I randomly decided to weigh myself! I don't feel big, I don't think I even look that big, chubby maybe, but I am HEAVY. I need to lose 2-3 stone. I think 5:2 might suit me as I work part time and could do the dreaded 2 on a work day. Have any of you had success? Do you all exercise as well (because I don't really have time to exercise).

ManOnBoard Thu 22-Nov-12 20:04:56

CBGBs The best thing about this WOE (Way Of Eating) is the simplicity, count all of your calories, including in drinks, on a fast day but do not exceed 500cals and be sensible on other days. Have to agree with TP2 on giving the Diet Coke a swerve and warm lemon barley works for me.

gregs If it really does get to the shaky stage then eat eat something low cal but it will be a shock if you do. The hunger tends to be fleeting and you soon adapt, just go for it and you will be as much of an expert as all of us

Bordercollielover Thu 22-Nov-12 20:22:23

The warm lemon barley sounded so nice that I went to see what we have in the cupboard . Not a lot and the choice seems to be between rather high calorie, presumably the fruit sugars, or low calorie but with aspartame and saccharine which I definitely don't want . Has anyone found a decent fruit squash which is low enough in calories to drink during a fast but doesn't contain aspartame or saccharine please?

GreenEggsAndNichts Thu 22-Nov-12 20:22:52

sausage just keep in mind, the first few times you fast might be tough. Just wanted to say, as I know a lot of us are quite positive about our fast days. It hasn't been easy the entire time. smile The first couple will be something like detox and you might be counting the minutes til bedtime. It's worth sticking with it, though, and it gets much easier after the first week.

(Am speaking for myself, as well as many other posters who have said the same over the last few months!)

TalkinPeace2 Thu 22-Nov-12 20:24:28

The fast days are not dreaded. By Sunday evening I am actively looking forward to not eating on Mondays.

Today (not eating) I did a 2k swim, 4 hours of paperwork then drove an hour to a meeting, juggled budgets for 2 hours, drove home, THEN had my omelette. Am currently finishing off the work from my meeting. The brain is VERY alert on non eating days.

And yes, you do have time for exercise. Make time. Its really important to get your cardio system working with you. Go for a walk in your lunch break (especially if you are not eating that day) as a start.

Laska42 Thu 22-Nov-12 20:36:42

Appleogies Welcome have it worked for any of us? YES! and if you look back at the beginning of thread 6 and end of five links above (only a few weeks ago - this discussion moves on pretty quickly!) you'll see that lots of us were answering a little questionnaire about how we did the fasting and what weight loss we were having.. .

but Yes , lots of us have lost quite a bit , (I'm down 18lbs since August and don't exercise that much mainly walking and cycling and certainly not in the gym !!) and there's plenty like me. But there are also a few unlucky people who having followed this WOE faithfully and who wanted to lose weight haven't lost much at all...

Also some people are not doing ti for weight loss but for the other hoped-for benefits so we are all different . So I'd advise that you just 'jump in and see' if it works for you.

have a look at the hint s and tips thread (link above) where lots of your questions will probably be answered if you've not already .. and come join us.. Theres always lots of chat here as well. smile

Thanks ladies. I have a stash of weight watchers tomato soup at work which is 73 calories a can if I get desperate I can always have one of those.

babbas Thu 22-Nov-12 21:12:47

Hi everyone. Can I ask if exercise is making a difference to any of you? I've not been able to exercise everyday like I used for the last few weeks and am finally seeing small losses. When I exercise my
Losses stall. I intend to up the exercise again soon as I feel better and am wondering if I'll go back to losing nothing. I know there are a few exercisers on this thread.

AppleOgies Thu 22-Nov-12 21:17:34

Thank you... I'm in.
I work mon, tue and thur, so I can 'fast' on tue and thur. I weigh 12 stone 8lb (gulp, don't even want to write that down) and I'm 5'3" I want to be 10 stone. I was 10 stone when I met DH 17 years ago (and pre DS).
I really can't imagine I can find time to exercise except maybe early Saturday morning hhmmmm... I'm going to have to think about exercise a bit more. My main thing at the moment is to eat less. I eat too much, I eat even when I'm not hungry, I snack. sad

How often should I weigh myself, I don't want to get despondent if I don't lose weight do I'm thinking once a fortnight.

Right, off to read the rest of this thread.

tostaky Thu 22-Nov-12 22:12:32

Hi there!
I'd like to join this thread... I am a bit overweight after baby 3 and I did watch the horizon programme this summer and was very impressed with the health benefits. Also I am very much all or nothing so I think that WOE will do nicely!
I will do my first fast day tomorrow.
Then is it better to fast on two consecutive days or two non consecutive days?
What is easier?

Skinnyeye Thu 22-Nov-12 22:49:22

Apple I hardly exercised at all before this WOE as i didn't have time insert excuse here however i now have so much more energy and want to keep active so I exercise virtually every day. I walk half an hour each way on the way to the station everyday, play badminton at least once a week and cycle at weekendsand roller skate on a Sunday. I'm also doing a lot more housework!!

Tostaky I find non consecutive days to be better (must confess though that i have only tried consecutive fasting once) however some of us do consecutive days. The only way to find out is to try it and see what works for you. I started 5:2 Monday and Thursday but have recently switched to 4:3 Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday. The beauty of this WOE is it's flexibility. Good luck and let us know how your first fast goes.

literarygeek Thu 22-Nov-12 22:56:55

BCL no squashes here, but can I just re-recommend Pukka teas. They are truly scrumptious, so much better than most herbal teas I have come across.

And no, they do not pay me. Unfortunately.

AppleOgies Thu 22-Nov-12 23:14:50

Rollerskate you say.... I do have my old rollerblades in the the cupboard under the stairs <wonders if I can still do it after all these years>. Ooohh would it be weird seeing a 35 year old rollerblading to the train station? Probably!

Aftereightsaremine Fri 23-Nov-12 06:03:26

Just wondering what everyone thinks about milk in tea? Yesterday went out for large lunch & wasn't hungry at dinner, so didnt have any- this is a big change for me I would before this WOE have scoffed a huge dinner also just in case I felt rough following day. The only thing I wanted we're two cups of tea one at 4.30 & the other at 10pm. So if I don't eat until lunchtime today would my fat stores be used or not. I know that if it was herbal tea it would be ok but wonder if 40ml of milk have messed fasting mode. Interested to see what people think.

Oh blimey that all sounds so rambly hope someone makes sense of it!

Aftereightsaremine Fri 23-Nov-12 06:29:31

Does this make it easier to understand my rambly post?

For a 24hour full fast to use my plentiful fat stores would I go from yesterday lunch to either lunch today or 10pm today?

frenchfancy Fri 23-Nov-12 06:29:45

Aftereight I personally think not. I am assuming yesterday was an eating day, but if you didn't eat after lunch and aren't eating until lunch today then I would count 24 hours. Obviously this would be different if you had a lot of drinks but I don't think 40 ml of milk counts as breaking a fast. Others with no doubt disagree.

The rest of my fast yesterday continued on the same easy vein. I struggled to finish my 300 cal dinner, I watched masterchef without so much as a tummy rumble and went to bed not hungry. Not once during the day did I think great I can eat (and drink wine ) tomorrow. This is a turning point for me in terms of this being a long term WOE.

Bordercollielover Fri 23-Nov-12 06:31:19

After8s, I don't think we know the answer to this unless I have missed something. If you belong to the counting calories only camp then the teas are only "worth" the number of calories in 40mls of milk.
However, milk is a stimulant to the insulin/ cortisol etc cycle so if you want to avoid setting that off with its cascade of consequences then presumably you would need to avoid all milk during the fasting period ( ie until you intend to eat your 400-500 calories, until someone works out whether there is an amount of milk that can be drunk without effect beyond the calories.
Like all else on here its try it and see really .

Aftereightsaremine Fri 23-Nov-12 06:37:28

Thank you french. I'm going to eat lunch whatever today as I now count my Fridays as an intermediate day with my proper fast days Monday & Wednesday but I thought it would be interesting to see what others think about nothing to eat from one lunch to the next. (Am sure this is what my mega skinny friends do).

I have to agree with you about the turning point on this WOE the amount of times I have eaten something just in case I didn't get hungry. Now I look forward to fasting days.

Aftereightsaremine Fri 23-Nov-12 06:42:00

Thanks border it's more of a wondering question really & yes we don't know the answer but its interesting question!

TellMeLater Fri 23-Nov-12 06:44:34

Whether you burn body fat or not will depend on your energy stores gained from eating carbs, in your liver and your muscles - until these are used up the body will not go anywhere near your body fat stores.

Milky tea is pretty low in carbs, I'm assuming you only have about 30mls or less of milk - which is only 1-2g carbs so insulin levels will not spike for long. You cannot burn body fat while your insulin levels are elevated - the insulin prevents fat cells releasing energy.

So from an insulin/fat burning perspective the tea won't have a huge effect but I have no idea what effect it has on the non weight loss health benefits we are all trying to obtain from fasting.

Bordercollielover Fri 23-Nov-12 07:21:07

Hi TellMeLater it sounds as though you have considered the whole carb/ glucose thing. I am not diabetic but have definitely developed a problem in this area over the last 15 or 20 years. I suspect that had I not discovered this WOL in time, I would have looked back in another few years and said that I had been "pre diabetic" at this point. I am hoping that when the visceral fat finally shifts my insulin etc will behave more normally.
So, would you mind sharing what you typically eat on both fasting and non fasting days as my weight loss has stopped and I guess I need to revisit the carb content of my diet. Before this WOL I was taking most carbs from vegetables but in the thrill of finding 4:3 have become rather slaphappy about the content of what I eat!!

Madhouse2012 Fri 23-Nov-12 08:26:53

I don't go mad on exercise, I'll be honest I don't like it! but I do swim twice a week and have been since August, I'm no swimmer but have managed to get up to 40/50 lengths twice a week. I feel much better for it as its a low impact all over exercise and I feel like I've done something good! My fasting days have been easy so far but have spread the 500cals over the day, but plan next week to avoid them until dinner time to get the best results from the fast rather than the weight loss.

Bordercollielover Fri 23-Nov-12 09:47:41

I have just re read Jenny Ruhl's "Blood Sugar 101" which I found very informative and often return to.
I think it may have helpful information in it for those posters who are disappointed by lack of weightloss AND for whom the following apply:

Straightforward adjustment of calories in vs calories out does not produce expected result
History of weight gain and inability to stick to previous calorie restricting diets
Feelings of shakiness, faintness etc within a few hours of eating certain foods coupled with an overwhelming desire for more of the same (ie compulsive snacking).
Dramatic loss of waist measurement following any sort of severe carb restriction including via fasting.
If you are one of these the book deserves reading although not relevant if calorie limitation / increased exercise works for and you can stick to it.

Sputnik Fri 23-Nov-12 09:49:41

Just musing here, but following on from what TML was saying about using up glucose reserves in your muscles etc, if you eat low carb the day before a fast day you'll get a "head start" on fat burning, no? Exercising will give you a similar head start.

I'm like Bordercollielover, I was lowish carbing before, and still do to some extent, but now allowing myself a bit more bread and pastry than I used to.

Babbas there could be 2 reasons why you don't lose weight when you exercise, firstly you are probably adding muscle, which weighs more, have you tried measuring or are your clothes looser? The other thing is the exercise, especially medium intensity aerobic exercise, increases appetite so you have to be careful that you're not overcompensating and eating more than you burned.

Hi TML , you said

Whether you burn body fat or not will depend on your energy stores gained from eating carbs, in your liver and your muscles until these are used up the body will not go anywhere near your body fat stores .

So if you didn't eat carbs and only ate protein you're saying that your Liver and muscles would have no energy stores. So for instance someone eating 3,500 kcals a day derived from fat and protein would have no fat stores confused .

Our bodies burn calories or fat depending on how much energy is taken in and how much energy is needed to keep it running, whether your diet is high in carbs or protein or fat has no bearing as to how quick the fat stores are depleted. There was a Horizon programme a few years back that investigated the high protein fad diets, it's conclusion in the end was that high protein diets worked for two reasons:
1. Someone eating a very low carbohydrate diet would after a very short period of time become so bored with their diet that their calorie intake would drop
2. Protein sends signals to the brain making it feel full, carbohydrates don't.

Eating too many calories, be it from carbohydrates, protein or fat leads to stores of fat. But a diet too high Protein leads to Kidney and Liver damage, increased rates of heart disease and cancer. A diet high in refined carbohydrates ie sugar, also of course leads to health problems.

But 'caaarbs' have no magic capacity to make us fat.....calories do.

samandcj Fri 23-Nov-12 10:04:20

Just reporting another one at target!
I've lost 30lbs since the end of July and am now where I want to be. I am switching from a mix of 5:2/4:3 to 6:1 (every Monday) I will re-test my cholesterol in another 3 months (7.6 down to 4.29)
I am also going to try to keep to my 'no snacking' rule and behave like a slim person!!

Whether you burn body fat or not will depend on your energy stores gained from eating carbs, in your liver and your muscles - until these are used up the body will not go anywhere near your body fat stores.

Sorry but I don't think that's true. When you are pottering around/doing easy activities as opposed to exercising, roughly a third of your energy is coming from carbs/glucose and the other two thirds from fat (breaking down free fatty acids). The ratio of fat to carb burning will be higher the fitter you are. When you start exercising, the more intense the form of exercise the more your body will rely on carbs/glucose/glycogen and so the level of fat metabolism will decrease, you will also burn up the glycogen stores quicker.

Further fat metabolism will also occur when fasting, roughly 18-24 hrs (or maybe less if you've recently been exercising and haven't eaten soon after stopping the exercise) into your fast your bodies glycogen stores will be v low and your body will start the process of gluconeogenesis, converting fat and a little protein into glucose to supplement the dwindling glycogen/carb store.

ceebeegeebies Fri 23-Nov-12 10:25:58

Another question (I know I promised I wouldn't ask anymore). I do go to the gym 4 or 5 times a week and, on the slim chance that I felt I had enough energy to go to the gym on one of my fasting days - how does that work in respect of my 500 cals?

If, for example, I went to the gym and did a class which burns 500 calories and I only ate 500 cals that day, I would be on nil calories for the day so does that mean I would need to eat 1000 cals that day to achieve the 500 calorie intake? (I hope that makes sense) smile

stclemens Fri 23-Nov-12 10:29:44

so yesterday was meant to be a fast day. Ate around 300cal until 6pm but we had celebratory drinks at work - so then ate three mince pies, crisps and a couple of glasses of wine which obviously blew my fast day out of the water. Will try again tomorrow maybe...

ManOnBoard Fri 23-Nov-12 11:02:26

CBGBs No, your body is continuously burning fat so were you to take any additional exercise would you then counter this with rest periods. The 500cals is based on 25% of 2000cals which is the accepted norm for a woman but is unlikely, in reality, to apply to anyone. The 600cals for a man is based on 25% of 2500cals which is obviousy wrong. Keep it simple and stick to 500cals.

TML Must agree with Sculleon your body is always burning fat for enrgy albeit at a low level for the first 4/5 seconds. A sprinter would primarily use anaerobic systems but a marathon runner would be 98% aerobic

GreenEggsAndNichts Fri 23-Nov-12 11:08:58

CBGB your trip to the gym doesn't change your allotted calories on a fast day, sorry. smile I know WW and other programs allow for that, but this doesn't.

And as I've said previously, your first couple of fast days might be a bit difficult, but it does get a lot easier. I'm fasting today and am happier for it (yesterday was Thanksgiving! I didn't make us the full roast, will do that on Saturday, but we did have some nice spinach dip, and pumpkin pie, so I think I honestly won't feel hungry again til evening..)

powkin Fri 23-Nov-12 11:23:06

Hi all,

I haven't updated my progress since I joined the thread way back in August so thought I should give an update. My goal was to lose 18lbs to go from 10st4lbs to 9st (I'm 5ft 2in). The idea that at my height I should be around 8 and a half stone is a bit overwhelming, so 9 stone seems a sensible goal for now.

Since starting I have lost at least 10lbs and now have a 'normal' BMI but my scales are so bad my weight can differ by lbs by just moving them round the room or leaning one way of the other! Still I'm now a firm size 12 rather than a 12/14 and I'm looking better in my clothes. I can't ever imagine putting on a size 10, it hasn't happened in 10 years, I think I would cry with joy!

I've actually stopped weighing myself for now as my weight loss seems to have plateaued I don't want to get disparaged by not losing weight. I've been messing around with different contraceptive pills which probably hasn't helped.

I'm still desperate to reach 9st by Christmas - coming back to this thread and seeing the success stories has helped me get my eye back on the prize!

Glad to see everyone's doing so well. Keep it up envy grin

GreenEggsAndNichts Fri 23-Nov-12 11:30:25

ooh thanks for the update, Powkin, and congratulations on your success with it. smile I know how you feel about not wanting to weigh yourself. It might be worth changing around what you're eating on non-fast days, or changing the number of days around, if you feel the need.

ThinkICan Fri 23-Nov-12 11:33:06

Congrats on reaching your target samandcj. Tell us what worked for you, what you ate on fast, non-fast days, exercise, stalls. It might spark a brainwave in someone else!

ceebeegeebies Fri 23-Nov-12 11:35:36

Thanks for the information regarding exercise. I have just calculated my TDEE using the calculator and based on my weight and the amount of exercise I do, my daily allowance should be 2500 cals so do I need to fast at 25% of that amount? What is the purpose of working out the TDEE?

catsrus Fri 23-Nov-12 11:46:55

re. the milk in tea issue - I can't drink it without, I can drink real coffee black but not instant. So I drink about 3-6 cups of tea with milk a day including fast days, some fast days I would also drink coffee with milk (like today as I'm at home this morning). I was very very good all day yesterday and had veggie curry then got the nibbles about 9pm and had 5 ryvita with real butter and marmite <sigh but yum>. this morning the scales had finally tipped under the magic 10st !!! so now my total loss is 19lb since August.

ATM, due to work related trips (and the odd ryvita splurge) I seem to be adopting a "try for a fast day" approach most days and then just see how it goes. Will not be eating now until after 4pm as I have a meeting at 2.30 and find I am much more alert if I don't eat - next week will be a killer as I'm away for a few days then back to the work christmas lunch!

Not eating breakfast is definitely the one huge thing about this WOE that I will continue with I think. Maybe at the weekend I might indulge, but on a busy day it really enables me to just get on and not think about food again until i am genuinely hungry.

catsrus Fri 23-Nov-12 11:49:43

the TDEE was a bit of a shock for some of us CBGB as mine was between 1500 - 1600 shock so that really explained why I was not losing weight on the 'sensible' 1500 low calorie diet I had tried. I had not been factoring in my age and post menopausal state, change in exercise patterns etc

So the value really is a reality check - what does your body actually need

tiggy114 Fri 23-Nov-12 12:06:03

I'm a bit confused with TDEE as well. Mines around 1800 so is it saying that in order to lose weight i need to eat less than that in a normal day and on fast days 25% of that? That would mean 461 cal a day on fast days. Eek !!! I'll starve. Lol.

Laska42 Fri 23-Nov-12 12:18:46

Hi all well I think I'm finally on the mend.. though a bit washed out.. Keep away from the stomach bugs going around.. NOT recommended. Despite not eating much at all i've lost only another 1.5 lbs this week , but as this takes me below my magic 50lbs lost since starting dietinggringrin ( not 5:2! i've only been doing this since August) but I'm taking it as a result.. Its rather scary to look back on my wedding photos of 6 years ago and see just how big I was then , and my wedding dress (which was mid-calf and loose fitting anyway ) is nearly floor length on me now! lol. shockgrin

However, I'm fully prepared that it may not stick as weight loss for this week and I cant say I'm feeling terribly healthy today after so right now I'm just looking forward to eating properly again..so no fasts for me until next week now.. DH home tonight (he works away) so planning a simple roast chicken veggies and jacket spuds for later...

Re TDEE yes it was a shock to me also .. I'm just the same as you catsrus and I reckon on the famous WW diet I was eating more than that each day using their 'points' system whilst still sticking to their limit.. .. no wonder I wants losing. Ill never go back to it..

BTW Catsrus well done on the magic 10st barrier.. I'm 10.2 this morning , and its my birthday in a couple of weeks Id love to be 10st for that..

Good luck all fasters and welcome to the new people I've not said Hi to yet..

My motto for this WOE is KISS (because it is simple) 500 cals 2 or 3 days a week, Dont go mad on the others..

Its worked for me..and I've struggled for a couple of years after plateauing on WW (probably cos I'd reached my TDEE point and didn't know it!)

Laska42 Fri 23-Nov-12 12:20:50

600 for those lucky blokes though ...

Iwearblack Fri 23-Nov-12 12:29:20

Have done 6:1 this week as had work functions requiring social eating so hard to fit a 'proper' second fast day in. However, found I naturally left a lot of the food in the restaurant as genuinely wasn’t that hungry (ate all the chocolate pudding obviously). Am i turning into a person who eats like a naturally slim person?? shock
Two things that made me go grin this week!
I was busy trying to thread some elastic into a garment I am making when I dropped a safety pin; immediately I clamped my thighs together to catch it but it fell through this gap I have newly required between my thighs!! Had to bend down and pick it up from the floor instead – the perils of losing weight eh?
Secondly – may wee daughter gave me a big hug yesterday and said 'oo mum you have lost weight – my arms overlap behind your back now!'

GreenEggsAndNichts Fri 23-Nov-12 12:35:49

CBGB Tiggy eat 500 calories on your fast days, don't worry about TDEE. Yes, it's been mentioned that it's 25% of your TDEE, but I really recommend sticking to the 500 calories. That's the amount which the weight-loss studies used for the participants, regardless of size. It just keeps things simple.

TDEE comes into play on your non-fast days, for figuring out approximately what you should be eating on those days. It's important to know this, because many of us had problems with portion control previously. Also, because many are trying this after having been on traditional low-calorie diets, and you really don't want to be eating low calorie on your non-fast days.

samandcj Fri 23-Nov-12 12:45:55

Thanks ThinkICan. What worked for me was a simple routine (I'm a creature of habit!)
On a fast day I saved my calories for 6pm when I have something like fish and green veg or veg curry or an M&S ready meal........something I didn't have to think about.
On a non fast day I have a few 'rules' ie no cake, crisps, chocolate or alcohol. I find it difficult to just have a small amount of something nice.... With me it's all or nothing.
I have found that my tastes have changed, I am hoping that keeping to the 6:1 for the foreseeable future (as it seems to be keeping my cholesterol under control) will help me 'remember' that I don' need to have that chocolate or those crisps every day.
Christmas will be a challenge!
Good luck to everyone ........you CAN do it!

ceebeegeebies Fri 23-Nov-12 12:58:39

Thank you smile 500 cals it is.

I am fasting today for the first time...I had a glass of water and a cup of tea with a smidgen of milk this morning and no breakfast for the first time since the day DS2 was born by c/s 4 years ago grin

The hunger pangs were there but I managed to ignore them and it was fine - have really surprised myself about how much I could actually ignore them if I tried.

Have just had a carton of chicken and veg soup for lunch and am having a carton of green veg soup for tea - I still have 100 cals left for the day but am going to try not eating them and then having a small snack for supper grin

Now I just need to get through the next 4 hours at work...

TellMeLater Fri 23-Nov-12 13:00:35

I'm not going to even try to convince the carb lovers one way or the other about the merits or otherwise of a low carb diet - I've read discussion on this subject that go on for 40 pages - IME it's like trying to convince someone who votes Tory to vote Labour a complete waste of time.smile

Just one thing though - what's with the 'caarbs' thing?

squoosh Fri 23-Nov-12 13:11:17

I defer to Dr Briffa on the subject of carbs.

TalkinPeace2 Fri 23-Nov-12 13:12:19

Whoop Whoop jump round the room. Hopped on the scales this morning.
8 stone 13 1/2
first time I've been under nine stone (even by that fraction) for over 20 years
AND it means my target of losing a stone doing this WOE has been achieved
new target is BMI of 20 - another 4 pounds - and then to stay there for ever.

PS am going to do some research on HOW fat cells form and are broken down and make it into a GoogleDoc for people to read next week .....

ceebeegeebies Fri 23-Nov-12 14:04:23

Talkin well done grin Your story has really given me inspiration for this diet.

Can I just ask how quickly you all started to see results - such as what was your weight loss the first week, how long before you felt it with your clothes etc?

ThinkICan Fri 23-Nov-12 14:06:19

Whoop, whoop! Well done TiP2.

Aftereightsaremine Fri 23-Nov-12 14:35:04

Well done Tip! That's great. I've got 6 lbs to go before I'm in the overweight category, can't believe ill be pleased to make it into overweight but yes I will.

Thanks to all that have commented on milk in tea. I managed until 11 today when I had scrambled egg, I just couldn't hang on any longer....

Afternoon TML , I don't know whether I would label myself a 'carb lover' grin as you stated. But I do love fruit, wholemeal toast, brown rice, porridge and veg so I suppose some would call me that.

Rather than a 'carb lover', I'd see myself as someone frustrated by the pseudo-science peddled by low carb diets. But I've said enough here about my views on the subject and to try and avoid the risk of boring people smile will now shut up on the matter.

Non-fasting day here so after a long bike ride about to tuck into a huge bowl of porridge and oatbran...it's all downhill from there though I'm afraid, till fasting again on Monday.

Have a great weekend all and huge congratulations to Sandcj getting your cholesterol down from 7.6 something to 4.2 shock

literarygeek Fri 23-Nov-12 16:05:31

thecyclistist, I couldn't agree more.

Currently on a fast day and fantasising about roasted parsnips, strawberries and pineapple. All good stuff.

TalkinPeace2 Fri 23-Nov-12 16:21:36

I've lost a steady 1-2 pounds a week. Friends commented after about four weeks. I had to wear a belt with all my jeans by mid October. Today my BodyBalance instructor commented on my flat tummy . RESULT.

how many eggs, what size - and to make it feel more, how much fresh ground pepper - stronger flavours are more filling.

TheCyclistist Sandcj
I'm going to sound really thick here but what is a 'good' cholesterol level, what is too high, what is too low, what is yikes and what are the units of measurement?

catsrus Fri 23-Nov-12 17:07:18

well done TP2 - and Laska I think we must be genetic twins separated at birth grin I will keep my fingers crossed that you cross the 10st barrier for your birthday!

My weight loss has not been slow and steady - except over the whole period (August to now), there were weeks when it seemed to fly off and others where nothing seemed to happen. I just stuck with the general principles, sometimes upping my calories on a non fast day, other times adding some more fast days in. I just kept telling myself that even if I was not losing weight I was doing myself some good re. the other health benefits.

I've just had my veggie curry after my meeting and my stomach is def full - I do still have some of that "mouth hunger" though (body satisfied mouth isn't!) - so might go look for some gum to see if the minty sweetness helps smile

tiggy114 Fri 23-Nov-12 17:08:15

Well i've taken the plunge today and fasted. It's been fine. And i didn't decide to do it till mid morning so had already eaten porridge and a packet of crisps blush but i still have enough cals left for a carrot stick snack later. I think the idea of it is way worse than the doing of it tbh. Plus it's waaay easier than calorie counting daily. As now i know i won't be eating again today (apart from carrot) i don't think about food constantly whereas when i calorie counted i was constantly thinking about food all day long!

literarygeek Fri 23-Nov-12 17:20:25

From what i remember:

Cholesterol: measured in mmol/litre in the uk.
What is measured is the total, and then the breakdown: LDL and HDL types.

It comes directly from food and also from sat fat.

Under 5 total is a good number. More than around 6.5 is worrying. But having said that I don't think we know enough about what would be too low. But we do know that people on plant based diets are generally healthier and live longer. So presumably they still have enough cholesterol despite not getting it from their diet, to fulfill all the normal cholesterol-y duties.

It's needed for loads of cell functions. The LDL type is what causes problems in your blood vessels.

'Good' cholesterol is HDL-type: desirable is around >1.1
(*high density lipoprotein* = you want this to be high)
'Bad' cholesterol is LDL-type: desirable is around < 3
(*low density lipoprotein* = you want this to be low)

Or there abouts. HTH

(But, when considering blood fats- triglycerides are also important. A whole other story).

literarygeek Fri 23-Nov-12 17:22:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

literarygeek Fri 23-Nov-12 17:25:02

Er oops. Sorry, obviously.

GreenEggsAndNichts Fri 23-Nov-12 17:29:41

Nice one, Tiggy. smile I agree- this has kept me from thinking about food all the time. If I know in my mind that it's a fast day, I just don't even consider other food, if that makes sense. I don't feel tempted by food if it's out, because I know I'm not eating it today. (But, I could tomorrow, if I felt so inclined, and that's a nice feeling as well)

Aftereightsaremine Fri 23-Nov-12 17:50:47

TP it was one egg dash of milk & my secret ingredient of diced chilli it gives scrambled egg such a lovely flavour....

TalkinPeace2 Fri 23-Nov-12 17:53:08

nom nom - will have to try that - luv chilli - and about 90 calories only :-)

Aftereightsaremine Fri 23-Nov-12 17:58:48

Didn't do it today but chopped smoked salmon poached in milk first then add as above & voila I've died & gone to heaven....

Thank god it's not a fasting day.

pip895 Fri 23-Nov-12 18:42:29

De lurking – first post on mumsnet! read most of the previous 7 threads - quite a marathon – so interesting though!
I have been on a version of this diet since mid Sept. I have never really dieted before but gradually over the 13years since DD was born, I put on weight and I could see myself heading into the obese category with 3 stone to loose – not good especially as I suffer from RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis).

I now diet 2 consecutive days Monday & Tuesday and have 500 calories split over 3 meals – I know its not what many people recommend – but it seems to work for me.
Breakfast is usually muesli ~170 kcal
Lunch soup ~ 80 kcal
Dinner typically ~250 kcal - fish or chicken with a little rice & veg with some sauce of some sort (Sometimes use half a innocent veg pot which works well) I don’t like to spend much time on food prep on low cal days.

First couple of weeks I found I really knew I was fasting – hadn’t much energy, bit of a head ache - poor dog got shorter than normal walks -etc. Now I hardly notice it – even able to go swimming and function perfectly normally – always look forward to Wednesday morning though.wink

Really feeling good on this have lost 4.5inches round my waist & just over a stone so far – It went down steadily 1 to 2lb a week for the first 6 weeks then a blip, up two weeks running - I thought of going to 4:3 or even calorie counting on my non diet days shock, but decided to just let it run a bit and the following week I lost 3.5lb! – no Idea what changed but glad to be back on track. I would really like to be out of the overweight category by Christmas - would be the best Christmas presie ever - love this diet (WOL/WOE) whats WOE stand for btw? blush lol

TellMeLater Fri 23-Nov-12 18:43:04

Bordercollie have you seen this with regard to the effect of fasting on insulin sensitivity in woman. It's hard to tell whether fasting will make your condition better or worse.


"Another diabetes risk factor that has shown a sex-specific effect is glucose tolerance. After 3 weeks of ADF, women but not men had an increase in the area under the glucose curve. This unfavorable effect on glucose tolerance in women, accompanied by an apparent lack of an effect on insulin sensitivity, suggests that short-term ADF may be more beneficial in men than in women in reducing type 2 diabetes risk. ” The opening line of their discussion reads: “Alternate day fasting may adversely affect glucose tolerance in nonobese women but not in nonobese men.”

My weekly diary wouldn't help you move from your plateau as i am not losing weight, never have done through fasting and I am now on carb maintenance so my carb levels are higher and I drink a lot of wine blush and eat out more often than I should. More blush I dont really have a typical week as I get bored eating the same food but this is the plan for this week.

My fasting days, I eat Greek yoghurt as a lunch time snack and evening meal is usually a very spicy curry - recipe varies every week - made with chicken, fish, prawns or egg served with cauliflower rice.

Feed days - breakfast hot berries with yoghurt, mixed seeds and vanilla. Sometimes cream cheese pancakes with yoghurt and berries. Boiled eggs with butter and Tabasco. At weekends scrambled eggs with truffle oil and Parmesan. Middle eastern eggs, Shakshuka, Heuvos rancheros, kedgeree using cauliflower rice and sometimes bacon, sausage, mushroom & eggs.

Lunch often veg soup or left overs - today was a chicken leg with roasted artichokes but it is always a bit of a raid the fridge affair.
Dinner this week - friday pizza - homemade so a very thin base - used to make a low carb one but it's a once/twice a month treat so I make it with flour.
Saturday steak with roasted shallots, courgettes, mushroom and thyme, kids will have theirs with potato wedges.
Sunday shoulder of lamb with pumpkin and thyme wedges, celeriac purée and roast broccoli kids will have roasties too.
Monday fast kids spaghetti Bol
Tuesday Bee's chilli bake and greens
Wednesday fast
Thursday rocket and ricotta savoury cheesecake with maybe Brussels with lardons with a vinegerette - bit of an experiment on the Brussels, I normally find them a bit too ordinary.

Hope that helps, there's lots of ideas on the Internet, some good recipes on the bootcamp recipe thread. Also the low carb section of the Diabetes website.


TalkinPeace2 Fri 23-Nov-12 18:54:56

welcome to the threads and this Way of Eating

I don't like that paleo site as its makes some VERY dodgy assumptions - primarily they did not have Ocado in the stone age .... so meals were not regular

ceebeegeebies Fri 23-Nov-12 20:15:34

Evening smile

Well, I am VERY proud of myself - first day of fasting and I am nearly there grin I have probably had about 550 cals (mainly because I had to eat an apple mid-afternoon as the shakes were starting). Considering I have always been someone who has had to eat at the first sign of hunger pangs, today has been a huge achievement. I managed to resist all temptation (we have bucketloads of chocolate in the house thanks to MIL's generous friends at a Christmas Fayre last week).

However, it has not been easy - have had to do a lot to distract myself, I have felt a little uncomfortable (I would never describe hunger as a pleasurable feeling) and, if I am honest, I can't say I am going to look forward to my next fasting day (probably Monday).

I need to lose at least 2 stone so I guess that is going to take me approximately 4 months and the thought of doing this twice a week for the next 4 months is not exactly filling me with glee sad

Please reassure me that it does get easier?

TalkinPeace2 Fri 23-Nov-12 20:26:16

it gets much, much easier
I sat working this evening with my tummy rumbling. And its not a fast day.
But I knew that once DH was home the booze and food would come out so I told my tummy to shut up.
Am still hungry (pissed but hungry) - but have learned that leaving eating till specified times reduces (markedly) the amount I need to eat to feel stuffed.

Snacking is the spawn of the devil.
I've started loooking up the science papers that explain how fat cells work and trust me, you'll never not scream at a food advert again after reading

synopsis :
overeat = create fat cells
overeat more = inflate those fat cells
circular loop
stop eating = deflate fat cells
stay low eating = body absorbs the fat cells
(and the last bit is what is missing in most diets and results in yo yo .....)

Evening TiP2 , regarding the cholestreol question, basically imo ditto what Literarygeek said. As a rule of thumb an overall level below 5 and Docs are happy, above that and they'll continue to monitor it.

Had blood tests this week for PSA levels but also managed to talk them into doing my:
Fasting insulin
and some liver enzyme thing confused

I've had them done every 6 months for the last 2 years or so because of a (previous) less than healthy alcohol habit blush but the last time was in July just before going on to this WOL, so will be interested to see whether there's any changes. My last Cholesterol reading was around 4 something not sure on the LDL/HDL split.

CBGB's sometimes it's hard sometimes it's easy(ish), Don't think too much about the toil of doing it two times a week for X number of weeks. This may or may not help but when I'm cycling up a hill especially the steep b*ggers, I never look at the top, just the immediate road in front of me...and sooner or later I get there. To cut a long analagy short - take one day at a time smile

TLM thanks for posting the paleo blog article link, it makes interesting reading even for a male. I think it's worth having a separate thread to this one where people can detail their gender, what kind of IF people are doing, for how long plus positive and negative effects. This could help to highlight any female specific effects. Such a thread could also be of some use to researchers as it would give basic facts without all the noise that this one has.

I've commented before that it's probably also worth firing a mail off to Prof Varady for her view on female specific effects with IF. I suspect human research on this subject will always be slow to surface due to difficulties with finding subjects and then their compliance to a study

MummysHappyPills Fri 23-Nov-12 21:09:52

Ok so this is a weird one, but have any of you noticed less body hair since you have been fasting? Like someone mentioned on the last thread, I definitely have less body odour, but also I have noticed my legs and underarms are staying hair free for much longer after I epilate. Also, slightly more worryingly, my head hair seems to be shedding a lot more than usual and getting everywhere, fortunately it is very thick so it is not making any noticeable difference to what is on my bonce in the slightest! grin

Bordercollielover Fri 23-Nov-12 23:32:56

No Ocado in the Stone Age? No wonder they died out!
Thanks for that info about what you eat TellMeLater, I will try some of your ideas.
I will wilfully ignore the glucose thing and stick with the fasting. I have lost a stone and 2 clothes sizes although it seems to have stopped at the moment. I am not a palaeo supporter; I most definitely evolved from a gatherer - hunter, not a hunter -gatherer. Anything I caught would have been dead already so I'll stick to the leaves and berries.

FlipFlippingFlippers Sat 24-Nov-12 00:06:48

Hello everyone!

I decided to start this WOE yesterday and today has been my first fast day. I managed til half 5 where I had a small fruit salad and a small tuna salad which came to 250 cals.

I'm waiting for DH to come home and then I'm eating a ready meal that states it's 159 cals for the WHOLE thing (how?!) Asda light choice chicken dinner for anyone who is interested.

One question though, am I doing it right? It seems too easy.

Breadandwine Sat 24-Nov-12 01:14:13

You seem to be, FFF.

I find it incredibly easy, myself, but it's taken me several months of taking it one step at a time to realise just how easy it can be. You seem to have got there in one jump, which is great!

Welcome to the thread, BTW! smile

Breadandwine Sat 24-Nov-12 07:58:19

Just for interest, here's an article in the Irish Independent on the subject:


Nothing in it that's new, but I like her final sentence:

"Right now, the jury's out. But smaller jeans? Who's going to argue with that?"

(Also posted on the Tips and Links thread)

frenchfancy Sat 24-Nov-12 08:11:36

Isn't that the same article that was in the Daily Wail? The one where they share an apple for lunch?

ceebee It definately gets much easier; the first 2 or 3 fasts are the worst, then your body seems to get used to it. One tip, don't save calories for a snack later, that just makes you think about food, use the 100 cals to add veg to your dinner to fill you up.

Breadandwine Sat 24-Nov-12 08:12:40

Just noticed that the Horizon programme I linked to at the top of the thread has been removed. There's now no trace of it on Youtube. sad

Might be elsewhere, I'll keep on looking.

Skinnyeye Sat 24-Nov-12 09:39:59

Morning all and happy weekend grin had my work presentation yesterday and wore my size 12 suit and a lovely shirt I haven't been able to fit into for years. Felt great and got really positive comments. WI 10 stone 4 edging closer to the magic 10 stone mark and hoping to be sub 10 for Christmas. 10 stone was my initial target but I'm now thinking of lowering my target as i am only 5 foot 3 with a smallish frame. 10 stone seemed a million miles away in August and I can't believe how easy it has been to get the weight off this time. Welcome to all the new posters and lurkers and good luck to all the weekend fasters.

themaltesecat Sat 24-Nov-12 10:22:56

New here. Hello!

I have been inspired by your thread to try this 5:2 stuff, as calorie counting doesn't really seem to work for me.

I have a question, though. How do fast days work in with moderate-to-strenuous exercise? Should you run / do strength workouts / whatever only on non-fast days? Or do you do you exercise on an empty stomach in the morning and maybe have a snippet of protein, then hold out for a filling 400-odd calorie dinner that night?

About me: aged 27, use MFP, work out with Jillian most days a week (NMTZ, BFBM, Shred and 6wk6pk), need to get down from 67kg to about 58kg.

FlipFlippingFlippers Sat 24-Nov-12 11:06:16

I woke up this morning not hungry, I was expecting to be starving! I'm liking this so far. My next fast day is going to be Wednesday, is that too much of a gap?

Well done Skinnyeye!

mollysfolly Sat 24-Nov-12 11:08:50

B&W and FF it is the same article as in the Times magazine a few weeks ago.

At today's WI have now lost 12 lbs - not record-breaking but I'm reasonably satisfied. Only 2 more pounds and I'll be sub-9 stone for the first time in a long time and only a few pounds from target. However, I can't say I feel brilliant - I've had bug after bug, including a stomach bug and now a flu-like virus. sad

ManOnBoard Sat 24-Nov-12 11:56:28

maltese There have been various posts where some find that fasting does have a bearing whilst others say not. For me, when I am doing fairly heavy weights and would normally complete 15 reps I tend to only manage 9/10, although this might be partly psychological. The time of day seems to also be relevant so the afternoon of a fast and the following morning, which would tie in with my (lack of) eating patterns. Do as you would normally and let us know how you get on.

The reason I watched the Horizon programme was because I believed it was going to be an expose of the diet industry rip off, and it sort of was. The article I want to read is by someone who has been on Atkins, cabbage soup, egg, WW, SW etc and now 5:2 rather than someone with a bmi of 21 but if these articles spread the word then keep them coming

ceebeegeebies Sat 24-Nov-12 13:18:14

Afternoon smile

Well, I am now on Day 2 and eating normally today grin

In hindsight yesterday wasn't that bad - I did go to bed at 9pm though as I couldn't stand it any longer and I did wake up thinking about food - hopefully this obsession will pass.

But on the plus side, I have realised that I do not need to eat everytime I get a slight hunger pang - my new motto is definitely 'hunger pangs are not to be feared' grin

Looking at my lifestyle/work etc, the best days for me to fast are probably going to be Tuesdays and Thursdays - does it matter if the 2 days are so close together?

frenchfancy Sat 24-Nov-12 13:50:13

No ceebee Tuesday and Thursday will be fine, it is what I tend to do (though I've done Mondays the past couple of weeks). I like having Friday as an eating day, and I find Tuesday a bit of a non day anyway so not eating doesn't bother me (it helps that I do the shop on a Wednesday so by Tuesday there is nothing to eat anyway).

I given up all booze on Wednesday though, I find 2 days close together easy as long as alcohol isn't involved.

themaltesecat Sat 24-Nov-12 19:05:06

Thank you, ManonBoard!

Interesting that it affects your strength routine, as I guess is pretty obvious. I usually take one rest day a week, so will make that a fast day, and try and just do a morning run on the other (and maybe some yoga).

Anyone else do these fasts and is semi-serious about exercise?

I saw the documentary and thought it was going to be crap- silly old sod talking about staying young, and lots of shots up his nostrils and filler shots of fronts of hospitals and traffic and whatnot. Won over by the bloke's conviction and these threads, though.

Will keep up my exercise this week and fast on Monday and Thursday xand bore you with my experiences. smile

ceebeegeebies Sat 24-Nov-12 19:09:36

Themaltesecat I am on day 2 of this WOE so have only had 1 fasting day so far. I go to the gym about 4 times a week (generally either spinning, combat or bodypump). Not sure about what to do about fasting/exercise as the days that will be best for fasting for me will be days that I also go to the gym.

I think I might have 2 weetabix as part of my 500 cals just before I go in an evening and then not eat again when I get back. I probably am not going to do it on a bodypump day though as I am not sure I could safely lift my usual weights on no food grin

TalkinPeace2 Sat 24-Nov-12 19:32:09

5:2 gym bunny here.
Mile swim every morning - including fast days
Yoga always on one fast day as well and either BodyBalance or Yoga and BodyPump on my other fast day.
I never eat till lunchtime anyway so doing 3 hours of exercise on an empty stomach has been my routine for years.
The only thing that has changed is that two days I do not have lunch.

Skinnyeye Sat 24-Nov-12 21:09:35

How do you manage to fit it all in Talkin? Work, family, exercise, 5:2 research and MN? Are your days longer than mine? confused

themaltesecat Sat 24-Nov-12 21:22:23

ceebeegeebies and TalkinPeace2, thank you!

Drawing on what you say, I will try and do intense stuff on fast days in the mornings only, and maybe some yoga at night.

literarygeek Sat 24-Nov-12 22:30:44

themaltesecat: I normally find the fast days fine to exercise as I do it generally in the morning, so on an empty stomach anyway. It's actually the day after the fast that I find it a bit more challenging.

TalkinPeace2 Sat 24-Nov-12 22:49:50

My kids are teenagers to take a lot less time. I vanish for periods of time - when working on site. When working at home I tend to have a browser open in the background. I work in the evening - always have, so the mornings at the gym are thinking time....

the MAIN thing is to play it by ear. The wonderful thing about this approach is that it is flexible and adaptable.

Breadandwine Sun 25-Nov-12 01:06:13

There's fantastic mine of information on this site - research on all aspects (it seems to me) of IF, stretching back to 2006:


Aboutlastnight Sun 25-Nov-12 01:37:32

Weigh in this morning - have lost a stone since I started this in August. Yippee!

Aftereightsaremine Sun 25-Nov-12 07:04:18

Im interested in what talking says about bodies absorbing fat cells, is this actually possible? When I started this WOE I weighed 14& half stone so definitely in the obese category (I'm 5ft 3"). I understand that I can deflate all those extra fat cells my body has made but as I understood it they will not disappear & that it is far easier for me to get fatter than some skinny person who doesn't have all those extra fat cells.

Have I got this right or am I completely way off the mark?

Also as I understand it I will have to be careful not to put weight on once I reach my target say by fasting at least once a week (though I will probably continue because I want those health benefits).

I think this is quite interesting scientifically & will probably apply to lots of us on this WOE. Hope I'm not being too presumptuous here.

MummysHappyPills Sun 25-Nov-12 08:11:36

After8 you are right about fat cells. Once you have them, they never go away, although you can shrink them down. Liposuction is the only way to get rid of them! grin

FlipFlippingFlippers Sun 25-Nov-12 08:17:36

Morning everyone.

I've decided to try ADF as I thought going from Friday to Wednesday would be too much of a gap. Got a long day with my kids and then the night shift to handle so who knows if I'll manage it!

Wish me luck.

Aftereightsaremine Sun 25-Nov-12 08:30:21

Thought so mhp shame it would be great if we could get rid of fat cells for good - don't plan on having liposuction!

Good luck fff it does get easier, I promise.

MummysHappyPills Sun 25-Nov-12 08:43:50

I was also told that we lay down the bulk of our fat cells by the time we are 16 (though we can make new ones after this if we become very overweight), which is why you are at a much higher risk of adult obesity if you were overweight as a child/teenager...

MummysHappyPills Sun 25-Nov-12 08:49:03

Oh and boo, it appears that fat cell numbers can increase during pregnancy too. sad

this link is good.

Aftereightsaremine Sun 25-Nov-12 08:49:18

Yes I remember reading that somewhere. I was a skinny thing till about 4 years ago when I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis & put on high dose of steroids which really messed me up. RA makes it painful to exercise so you put on weight & find it harder to move because of weighing more - vicious circle.

MoomieAndFreddie Sun 25-Nov-12 11:10:57

Can I just ask, do you have to fast 2 days in a row?

MadameBoolala Sun 25-Nov-12 11:13:57

Just marking my place, I've been lurking and I'm starting tomorrow, I'm feeling mega positive about it.

Breadandwine Sun 25-Nov-12 11:33:58

MummysHappyPills don't forget the Links thread! smile

MoomieAndFreddie nope - just choose two days that suit you - I do Monday and Wednesday.

MadameBoolala good luck - but you won't need it! smile

MadameBoolala Sun 25-Nov-12 11:36:12

Thank you Breadandwine smile

Skinnyeye Sun 25-Nov-12 11:57:38

Great link thanks B&W lots of interesting reading there and Dr Vs email address grin

I noticed that there were 13 visitors on that forum - bet they are all MNers lol

TalkinPeace2 Sun 25-Nov-12 13:20:41

The body reabsorbing fat cells : I've found one paper, am checking for a couple more - it does as part of normal cell renewal - unused cells are destroyed. But they need to have been unused for long enough that the energy of destruction is worth it to the body
upwards of a couple of years
the line about creating all your fat cells at a young age is defeatist and unlikely
Jamie Lee Curtis has splendid middle age spread - not much sign of subcutaneous fat in True Lies though ....

am currently battling with HTML, but will keep researching as a diversion.

ThinkICan Sun 25-Nov-12 15:03:52

Great links B&W and MHP. Our team is an excellent resource centre. And in the midst of all the gym bunnies on this thread - from someone who has looked into a gym just once and vamoosed 'cos of all the toned, younger bodies: I climbed up and down two hills to a tourist place - 1700 steps up and 1700 down. And have just a slightly distressed pair of ankles to show! I'm sure I couldn't have done this without my healthier eating and weight loss with IF. Imagine how very relieved my ankles will be when I lose more weight. Crossing my fingers and toes! I really understand what you said TiP2 - about how much happier my body will be when I lose the 30 lb still to go to a healthy BMI. I'm going to be stiff tomorrow though.

FlipFlippingFlippers Sun 25-Nov-12 16:04:13

Tried miso soup and blergh! How do you lot do it?!

Wish I hadn't of bought 3 boxes of the stuff grin

Ended up with a 40 cal chicken noodle soup instead.

HelgatheHairy Sun 25-Nov-12 16:05:48

I know the weight loss is the main issue which is why it's still a bit unsure. He had a bout of colitis 2/3 months ago and he did go quite thin but never to the extent he looked like he was starving. And he did put the weight back on. He's currently 24kg which is about right I think.

His poo is identical to a cow pat!!

HelgatheHairy Sun 25-Nov-12 16:06:09

Sorry - wrong thread!!

TalkinPeace2 Sun 25-Nov-12 16:11:06

I bought a pot of miso paste
a load of stock cubes
and have walking onion growing in the garden

think of it as a broth between courses and its yum
add pepper and more chopped chives / scallions if needs be

HelgatheHairy Sun 25-Nov-12 16:12:08

What I meant to post blush

I lost 1.6 pounds this week grin have been doing 5:2, thinking I might try 4:3 just in the run up to Christmas. Had also started c25k but have slacked off (was only on week 2!) so will start that again next week.

FlipFlippingFlippers Sun 25-Nov-12 16:14:57

Oooh thanks for the tip! It tasted very strong so I might try it with more water or less paste next time. Chives sound good.

babbas Sun 25-Nov-12 16:50:35

Themaltese just thought I'd share my experience. When I started fasting in sept I was doing shred or jillians other workouts at least 6 days a week. I lost nothing for 11 weeks. In fact I felt ill. The workouts were fine, manageable with fasts, but over the weeks I felt dizzy sick nauseous and flu like. I was really poorly in week 10/11 and did 3 days of shred and list my first 2lbs. The last two weeks I have cut right back as still felt a bit woozy and dropped another 1 lb. that's just my experience. I'm back to shred as of today but will do it 4-5 times as I've found over te my
Body just felt ill doing both fasting and exercise. It's my first proper week back on shred so wish me luck!!

MummysHappyPills Sun 25-Nov-12 17:13:59

The line about having all your fat cells by 16 may be defeatist but it is sadly true, I don't pretend to be an expert, but I am a 4th year medical student and have heard this mentioned by several consultants, especially in paediatrics to stress how important a healthy diet in childhood is.

That is not to say that it is futile to attempt to lose weight once you are overweight in adulthood, as you simply shrink the fat cells you have when you lose weight.

Fat cells don't live forever, they turn over, old ones die and new ones take their place. However the number always remains the same, and this number is set by your late teens. There is currently research going into trying to stop new fat cells being made to replace the old ones, in the hope that this will eventually lead to an overall reduction in the number of fat cells - not sure how far this has gone or what the outcomes have been though.

if you shrink your existing fat cells right down you can still change your body shape drastically though, and in some ways it is good if you have plenty of adipocytes in which to store your fat, because then it is stored in your subcutaneous tissue where it doesn't do much damage, rather than accumulating around your internal organs! smile

TalkinPeace2 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:26:39

^ the number always remains the same^
you see that's the bit that does not make sense.
Friends who have never been fat do not have the fat cells - their skin is lean
(Cameron Diaz / Bradley Wiggins / Mo Farah)
and yet when such people get older, some bulk out (Jamie Lee Curtis / Liz Taylor / Koo Stark)
AND the Nature papers I was reading earlier point out that if fat cells remain full for a period of time, more are created
so its not true in one direction - therefore is not true in the other

I'm looking at papers relating to the Dutch Famine and the fact that the balance of white and brown fat altered in those subjected to low calories for a long time

its a case of separating out papers written by obesity doctors - who rarely see "success" stories
from those written by doctors in general cohort studies like the one I've been on for 13 years

Bordercollielover Sun 25-Nov-12 18:09:42

Flip flipping,miso soup makes me want to throw up.for me the flavour is utterly vile! Miso does have some health benefits though so I have been hiding it in other soups and find it adds a pleasant layer of flavour that way. Just don't put boiling water on it as extreme heat destroys the goodies.

Madhouse2012 Sun 25-Nov-12 18:55:55

Doing my first 'spread over 2 days' fast day today, had lunch then plan on nothing else until lunch tomorrow, I'm going to see if I prefer it to doing a fasting day morning to morning with a 500 calorie meal. This is only my 4th fast day and I already feel better, have lost a little weight but my tummy feels flatter, so all good so far!

Mhp thanks for the clarification on fat cells. Sounds to me like the number of fat cells you have is irrelevant when it comes to weight loss.
Would also be interested to know how a child can prevent the growth of fat cells, if at all?

Aftereightsaremine Sun 25-Nov-12 20:37:29

Agree with skippy that would be interesting to know how to prevent fat cell growth in children. Both dds eat fairly healthily but are always hungry & so will gorge on chocolates biscuits crisps etc when given the opportunity. they have dinner around 7-7.30 depending on when dd1 gets home & then desert eg bar of chocolate etc once theyve had fruit.

I've told them they are setting up problems for when they are older but they are both very skinny as they play lots of sport during the week so I haven't fussed too much about it. But told them I'm going to get much stricter ie go back to the evil mum I used to be when treats were for the weekend only. Lets see how long it lasts before dd1 (almost 14) throws a wobbly.....

TalkinPeace2 Sun 25-Nov-12 20:41:22

And yet look at pictures of Chelsea Clinton - the archetypal puppy fat girl - who has been lean since age 21 .... OK she may not eat much but those fat cells are hiding really really well under her skin if they are still there ten years later

Bordercollielover Sun 25-Nov-12 21:40:18

How do we know whether or not celebrities have had liposuction?

TalkinPeace2 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:43:25

fair point - but I don't think many olympic athletes go in for such things ....

Bordercollielover Sun 25-Nov-12 21:52:08

No but an Olympic athlete has a body which functions at optimum levels of everything, bodies which are not kept at that peak performance level are not likely to behave in the same way, IMHO. But I may be wrong.

TalkinPeace2 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:59:16

Indeed, but I think that the current prevailing view that all fat cells exist at the age of 16 it just waiting to be fully overturned.
For a start, people who get fat definitely lay down more fat cells.
Ex athletes sometime put on lots of weight - filling up fat cells that they showed no sign of (I knew an ex international waterpolo player who got huge ....)

And those who have managed to lose weight and keep it off for a long time are very poorly studied - mainly because they tend not to go near doctors!

The cohort study I am on has been looking more at DH and I as well as DS (the original study subject) and they have data on me going back to when I was nearly 12 stone before pregnancy.

virginposter Sun 25-Nov-12 22:52:10

Just wondering if we have posted enough questions for Dr Mosley? Thanks.

ManOnBoard Sun 25-Nov-12 23:25:40

TP2 Not really understanding what you are getting at, it seems perfectly obvious that your fat cells are all formed at age 16 but it is the amount of fat they are holding and their size that changes. A marathon runner may have low levels of body fat but just less in each cell and it is the efficiency of their bodies that allows them to maximise the energy from it. 98% of the energy used in a marathon is aerobic and comes from their fat reserves and they may often put on weight in later life as they do not burn off as much because they exercise far, far less. All animals need fat for enegy.

Madhouse What you are proposing has been raised periodically before and differs from 5:2 in that say you were fasting on a Tuesday you would have dinner on Monday around six o'clock, 500cals on Tuesday and breakfast at 8 o'clock on Wednesday ie 500 cals in 38 hours. A day is 24 hours but 24 hours is not a day and what you are suggesting seems nothing more than varying your meal times. With the number of posts on here saying how simple this WOE is to follow and the reported successes why would you want to complicate it and to quote you "have lost 3lb and 1.5% body fat, woop woop!!"

Breadandwine Mon 26-Nov-12 00:07:56

Just wondering if we have posted enough questions for Dr Mosley? Thanks."

virginposter You're quite right - the thread hasn't been added to for a while.

I've just PM'd you a draft letter to the good doc.

Be interested to hear what you think. smile

In the meantime, if anyone else has a question they would like Dr M to respond to, here's the thread concerned.

Breadandwine Mon 26-Nov-12 01:03:44

"Doing my first 'spread over 2 days' fast day today, had lunch then plan on nothing else until lunch tomorrow, I'm going to see if I prefer it to doing a fasting day morning to morning with a 500 calorie meal. This is only my 4th fast day and I already feel better, have lost a little weight but my tummy feels flatter, so all good so far!"

Good stuff, madhouse!

Here's what Dr Matt P. Mattson (one of Dr Mosley's scientists) has to say on the subject:
1. A complete fast (no food) with hydration maintained with non-caloric beverages will be superior to consuming 600 calories on the fasting days.
2. Eating the 600 calories at one meal will be superior to eating several smaller meals spread throughout the day. By eating only one meal, the body goes essentially 24 hours with no food. This results in adaptive cellular stress responses which we believe is particularly good for the brain.
3. In the case of the 5:2 diet, we do not know whether better health benefits are realized with two consecutive days of fasting versus any two days of fasting during the week.

It would be much better if you could just get through a fast day without eating at all. Obviously, very few people are able to do that, so if you are going to eat a (600 for a man, 500 for a woman) calorie reduced meal, you are much better to consume that as one meal than to spread those calories throughout the day. This is because the stress that going for 24 hours without food places on your brain actually has produced identifiable positive brain responses such as the growth of new brain cells. It’s like a workout for the brain. How to add that into an intermittent fasting or alternate day plan?

Easy. Either, take a note of what time you last ate on the feed day prior to your fast and then do not consume your 600 calorie fast day allowance until 24 hours has past. So, if you ate at 6pm on a feed day, do not eat your 600 calories until 6pm on the fast day. That way, you’ve gone 24 hours without food AND you get to eat (albeit a restricted) dinner! If that doesn’t grab you, eat breakfast on a fast day and then don’t eat again until your breakfast the next day.

The beauty of this WOL is its flexibility, as well as its simplicity!

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Mon 26-Nov-12 05:02:51

Hello everyone - been AWOL due to the glut of visitors, managed to fast inbetween but afraid it has utterly gone out the window. So - ADF til Christmas starting tomorrow (might have to juggle things periodically but in theory going to do either 4:3 or ADF) alongside getting back into exercise mode.

Will check back over the thread but interesting to see the questions for Dr N thread!

Have discovered some frozen pho soup in trader Joe's which is only 200cal so saving that for my dinner tomorrow - wish me lunch getting back on the wagon!

Aftereightsaremine Mon 26-Nov-12 06:47:57

Good luck girl. Very interesting bread. I'm tried to do the one meal a day but the amount of medication I take has meant I've felt very nauseous so I will have to have a rethink. On the the plus side another 2lbs lost so that makes 31 in total. And lots of positive comments. Im seeing GP this morning for a review so it will be interesting to see what she makes of the new me!

MoomieAndFreddie Mon 26-Nov-12 08:03:08

am starting it today - wish me luck!!

TheOriginalLadyFT Mon 26-Nov-12 08:06:51

Hello all, I'm joining in if you don't mind

I lost loads of weight low carbing a few years ago but since getting married and changing my lifestyle I've found it impossible to be as disciplined about carbs and it's all gone back on. I feel very low about this, and out of control, so I'm going to give this WOE a proper go, as I think it will fit better into my lifestyle

Wish me luck - today is my first fast day

ThinkICan Mon 26-Nov-12 08:22:25

Great going Aftereightsaremine. Tell us if your GP fell off his/her seat! Tell us also your rules for eating, the ones that worked, the stalls that you overcame, etc. You are an inspiration.

ManOnBoard Mon 26-Nov-12 08:23:51

Madhouse My point is that fasting for 24 hours twice is not the same as 5:2 and will almost certainly mean that you will have more calories in total than if you were to do like the rest of us, including B&W "The beauty of this WOL is its flexibility, as well as its simplicity!" are certainly lost by what you are proposing as it would mean counting calories over 4 days. So say you were in conversation with your best friend how would the conversation go?
Madhouse "I am trying this new way pf eating, it's called the 5:2 diet"
Best friend "Why is it called 5:2?"
M "That's because you eat a normal diet for 5 days and then fast for 2"
BF "Oh, that sounds simple which days do you fast?"
M "Sunday and Monday, and Tuesday and Wednesday"
BF "But that's 4 days"

MoomieAndFreddie Mon 26-Nov-12 08:34:10

good luck theeoriginallady

me too, got a feeling am gonna be on this thread quite a lot to distract me from hunger pangs

Madhouse2012 Mon 26-Nov-12 08:44:52

manonboard Well I thought the whole point of the programme was to show how fasting can have health benefits? But the conclusion for Dr Mosley was the 5:2 suited him the best, and probably for most people interested in it?
If I'm counting a week as Saturday to Saturday, my first fast was Thurs, then it was Sun and Weds, now Sun/mon, I plan to do Weds or Thurs this week so I am only doing 2 days?
I am not counting calories over 4 days, I am eating a healthy balanced diet on those feasting days and if I want to have biscuits, cake whatever I am.
Look at what breadandwine posted above points 1,2 & 3, that's the idea I am on!
I last ate yesterday at 1.30pm and plan to have lunch today as normal and continue normally until a fast day weds or thurs. I'm not sure why you are critiscing me?

ManOnBoard Mon 26-Nov-12 09:04:36

"madhouse" What I posted was certainly not intended to be a criticism of you and I hope whatever you do works. However, as I posted earlier, this has come up several times before and is different to what DrM did and differs from what the vast majority of us are doing and I believe complicates what is a very straightforward and easy to follow diet

Madhouse2012 Mon 26-Nov-12 09:15:34

The programme I saw showed the health benefits of fasting, Dr Mosely fasted for 3 days initially which lowered his blood levels drastically, The findings were a complete fast for 2/3 days every few weeks or even months would have health benefits. Dr Mosely couldn't manage that so explored other ways of fasting. The whole point of the 5:2 diet as the research found was that by only having 500 cals two days a week then eating normally for 5 would have similar effect. The 500 cals are supposed to be consumed in one meal, which would then give you upto 24 hrs fast.
Dr Mosely adjusted it to suit him over 2 meals, there's no research apart from his personal findings that that was ok, so surely it doesn't matter how you do it as long as you are careful and it works for you?
I just don't get your comments that I am being completely different to everyone else on here when I am not? I have done 4 days in 14 of having 500 cals, then tried it from 1pm to 1pm, whats so different about that?
What about the adf? Personally I think that's very extreme and not 5:2 at all, but that's everyone adjusting it to suit themselves?

Madhouse2012 Mon 26-Nov-12 09:33:54

Looking back at posts it seems the majority aren't doing 5:2, but trying adf, 4:3, 6:1. That's complicating the original 5:2 diet surely?

ManOnBoard Mon 26-Nov-12 09:39:28

DrM fastted for 4 days and adf before settling on 5:2 on which he stuck to 600 cals a day. This meant that from dinner on the evening prior to fasting to breakfast the day after he had 600 cals in roughly 38 hours and a 1900 calorie reduction. With what you are proposing what would you expect the calorie deficit to be and over what period? What B&W posted mentions a complete fast for 24 hours then a 600 cal meal on the fast day.

Breadandwine Mon 26-Nov-12 09:50:25

Brad Pilon, the author of 'Eat, Stop, Eat' does exactly what Madhouse proposes - he has a meal at 2pm, followed by a 24 hour fast, then a >600 calorie meal. He's been doing this for years

I have to say, MOB I think you're worrying unnecessarily!

ManOnBoard Mon 26-Nov-12 10:00:25

B&W You are quite right and I am just being pedantic but I still maintain, as I have said to you before, that a day is 24 hours but 24 hours is not necessarily a day

Laska42 Mon 26-Nov-12 10:11:33

hi all just checking in for my /Sunday /Monday .. 24hr fast .. last ate 4pm yesterday .. and feeling GOOD!

Only black coffee so far , I've come to the conclusion ( this being my 3rd 24hr total fast, that its just about not thinking food at all until a certain time..)

I may try and lengthen this one ,and see how long I can go ..wonder if I could make it until tomorrow breakfast ?

Will read the thread later..

B&W . possibly being a pessimist here , but i'm wondering if DR M is reallyt hat interested in answering questions he doesn't set himself up as an expert and hasn't invited any questions recently ... the woman writing the blog didn't get an answer from him and and he has seemed to have stopped talking about 5:2 on twitter.. . might it be better to try one of the scientists instead?
just a thought ..

Laska42 Mon 26-Nov-12 10:18:48

Mob. re Brad Pilon thats what ive been doing too .. last meal ( mine was a plate of veggies) then.. 24hrs with nothing eat 500 cals . then 16 hrs ..

hi all, sorry for being MIA, huge amounts of work on next years budgets for the past 2 weeks, have been working my days off, evenings and final day was working saturday 11-7, but now they are finished, and I can re-surface!

so we are onto a new thread, I will try and catch up with all the posts over the coming week, but just wanted to pop in and say hello.

I only managed one fast last week, the first time that has happened, i'm back on track today, (usual 5:2 for me) would really like to lose a couple more pounds before christmas.

I wanted to say to manonboard that i can see you feel very strongly about people doing it the 'proper' way that Dr moseley did, but I agree with madhouse and although for me personally I agree that the simplicity and the easiness of just 2 days of 500 cals, and 5 days of whatever as it really works "for me", I also think that everyone should be able to try and work out what fits best for them, and it would be more pleasant if we all listened a bit more and waited to see how peoples experiences go rather than advising too much against other peoples choices. i think expressing an opinion is good, but to tell people they are wrong for their choices is not.

Maybe that wasn';t your intention, it's just the impression I got from reading a few recent posts. I enjoy reading your posts and thoughts about this WOE, but there are many different people with different reasons for choosing this WOE.

breadandwine i'm interested to see there is a thread with questions for Dr Moseley, I'll be sure to take a look.

RavenVonChaos Mon 26-Nov-12 10:27:33

Do I have to be totally food/drink free for 16 hours on fast day? So go to bed at 10pm....wake up at 7 ... Then eat/drink at midday? And should I have all my 500 cals in one sitting after 12... Or could I have 200 at 12 then 300 at 6pm?


hi raven I honestly think you need to work out what works for you best, but the scientific evidence so far seems to support a 16 hour total fast for being most beneficial to the health benefits, in terms of the weight loss I'm not sure anyone knows that for certain.

i started off splitting the cals into 3 small snacks, then quickly moved to 2 meals, i keep meaning to do just one large meal, but as I have 2 small chidlren to look after and need to stay tolerant I find that the 2 meals works bes for me.

some people just can't do without breakfast, others prefer to eat one large meal, and you may find you want to do different things on different days, it really is fairly flexible.

the only thing most of us find is that it seems easier to delay eating as long as possible.

good luck, let us know how you're getting on.

aftereights your weight loss is great, you must be feeling really good?

I'm also looking forward to hearing what the dr says.

mollysfolly Mon 26-Nov-12 11:25:10

Laska I agree with you about the letter to Saint Michael Mosley (as I like to think of him) - he's just someone like us who has discovered a way of eating that has numerous benefits and WORKS!! (It would be interesting to know if there is to be a follow-up programme though.) I think a letter to Dr Krista Varady or one of the other scientists would be better for answers to the technical questions.

MOB the '24-hour' fast idea is something I'm planning on trying when the happy day arrives that I'm trying to maintain, rather than going onto 6:1. I agree that this should be the simplest WOE ever, but also that we should do it the way that works for us.

RavenVonChaos Mon 26-Nov-12 11:31:13

It's weird because I think I have been doing this WOE naturally for many years. I am about a stone overweight, but not in an unhealthy way, just that I would like to shift a bit of excess blubber. However I have always felt bad if I skip breakfast etc.

My DP is a massive fry up fan, so at the weekend he can roll out of bed at 10 and sit down to the full works at 10.30. Over the years I have just fallen into the same habit. But every time I do it, I am thinking "I am not hungry for this food why am I going to eat it?" but because its there, I just eat it. So that is the first habit to stop. I would prefer to have my fry up for a late lunch or tea, when I have actually built up a hunger.

I have often had days where I have not had breakfast then gone to the sandwich shop at midday and looked at what's on offer and just thought "meh, don't fancy that". However, I do get a bit ratty at school pick up......

So my plan is to do 5:2, keep some handy sachets of miso soup at work, drink loads of hot water and see if I can shift the stone.

mollysfolly Mon 26-Nov-12 11:35:18

P.S. what is frozen pho?

Piebaldrider Mon 26-Nov-12 12:15:51

Just trying to drop back into the chit chat . I havent posted for over a week since i managed to put on 3/12 pounds over night. As an update the folowing week i did 6.1 and continued to excersise and on my weigh day i had lost the 3/12 i had sort of gained and another pound off too so although im not exactly sure what i weighed to start with i have now lost at least 1 1/2 stone since early September. Last week i only did 5.2 as im struggling to get that third fast in at the minute but im happy as long as i manage the two. I have now got shin splints in both legs and it bloody hurts , even keeps me awake at night . I will have to stop running for a while but will see how i get on with the cross trainer to keep my cardio up. Im fasting today and am not working so im going straight back out now to keep busy until i can eat this evening. Good luck to everyone and congratulations to thos who are doing so well.

This morning I read an interesting paper on:
The effects of intermittent or continuous energy restriction on weight loss and metabolic disease risk markers: a randomized trial in young women.

Brief summary:
Subjects doing caloric restriction (CR) diets and subjects doing 5:2 IF regimes over a 6 mth period had equally effective results for:
Weight loss
Reductions in leptin, free androgen index, high sensitivity C-reactive protein, total and LDL cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure and increases in sex hormone binding globulin, IGF binding proteins 1 and 2.
Both groups experienced modest declines in fasting serum insulin and improvements in insulin sensitivity which were greater amongst the IF group.

The regimes:
The CR folks were on a diet where they were prescribed a daily 25% restriction based on a Mediterranean type diet (30% fat, 15% monounsaturated, 7% saturated fat, 7% polyunsaturated fatty acids, 45% low glycaemic load carbohydrate, and 25% protein).

The 5:2ers were asked to undertake a Very Low Calorie Diet (VLCD) (75% restriction) on 2 consecutive days and to consume estimated requirements for weight maintenance for the remaining 5 days according to the nutrient composition above. The VLCD provided 2060 to 2266 kJ (500kcal ish) of energy and 50 g protein/day and comprised 1.136 litres (2 pints) of semi skimmed milk, 4 portions of vegetables (~80 g/portion), 1 portion of fruit, a salty low calorie drink and a multivitamin and mineral supplement.

Fewer of the IF group (58%) planned to continue with the regimen beyond 6 months compared to the CR group (85%) suggesting difficulties with long term adherence to IF.

I suggest you read the paper in full before coming to any conclusions with what I’ve posted above.


TalkinPeace2 Mon 26-Nov-12 12:35:34

A "fasting day" is a 24 hour period during which women consume no more than 500 calories and men no more than 600.
The start and end points of that 24 hours depend on your routine.
But be it 3pm to 3pm its the limit on the calories in that time.

Not eating for as long a section of that 24 hours is beneficial (sleeping helps)
so if possible have just one meal in that 24 hour period
eg if doing 7pm to 7pm
starting after supper, try not to eat again till 500 calorie supper the next day at 6.30
but - drink plenty of water (as your food provides over a litre a day normally)

Put on two pounds over the weekend, but so long as I lose three pounds during the week, all is well.

FlipFlippingFlippers Mon 26-Nov-12 12:45:14

After my 2nd fast day this week (since Friday) I'm seriously considering adf. I've woken up today with absolutely no appetite at all! Is this normal?

I've had 2 cups of tea and 1 slice of toast. Can't even contemplate having lunch. I'm a very big girl and this is just strange! I keep reading that it gets easier and easier too.

This woe is perfect for me as I'm very good at having initial willpower it just never lasts very long! It's much easier being a bit hungry and thinking oh I can have that tomorrow if I want. Seems I don't want very much on feed days tho... It's all a bit odd!

TalkinPeace2 Mon 26-Nov-12 12:46:10

That paper is excellent. A straight comparison on IF / normal calorie restriction in women for six months.
IF is no better or no worse that things like WW and SW, but its free AND because you can stop and start, I wonder if long term , less will 'fall off the wagon.l

frenchfancy Mon 26-Nov-12 13:10:06

A supposed fast day here, but for the first time since september I couldn't do it this morning. I had food poisoning over the weekend so ate very little yesterday, I felt so sick this morning I just had to eat otherwise I wouldn't have been able to work.

I feel much better now so I'm continuing the day as though it was a fast (mostly to support DH) but I think I'll be at about 750 cals by the end.

I guess yesterday was less than 750 cals as well so I suppose it is all the same in the end.

kittykarate Mon 26-Nov-12 13:15:16

That paper is really interesting.

I think my view is - it's not the diet that matters, it's that it becomes a way of life. It's good that IF doesn't seem to cause any harm, and if, like me, you find living in a WW or SW way of life non-sustainable it's great that we have IF as a way of eating.

52to103 Mon 26-Nov-12 13:15:41

Hello all

May I join in please?

A friend of mine told me about this diet last week - she's finding it really easy to just have 2 500 cal days pw and has lost lots of weight.

I'm about 11 stone and would like to get down to 10st 3 as soon as it happens and then take stock (I would ideally like to be 9st 12 but I'm giving myself an interim goal).

Today is day one and so far so good. Here's the plan:

First thing:
Cup of tea: 15 cals

Small apple and diet coke: 70 cals

Tub of New York Chunky Chicken minestrone Skinny Soup: 180 cals
Cup of coffee: 25 cals

220g raw weight cod loin with broccoli and curly Kale and soy sauce 180 cals
Cup of coffee: 25 cals

TOTAL: 495 calories

Clearly it's only day one for me but i do feel quite optimistic about being able to stick to this... It's ONLY two days a week and I can change them around to suit what I am doing.

TalkinPeace2 Mon 26-Nov-12 13:24:21

Hi there 52to103 and welcome to the gang.
Looking at your plan my main comment would be - drop the mid morning snack. You don't need it and Diet Coke is a particular bugbear of mine grin - have the extra calories as more veg with supper.

tostaky Mon 26-Nov-12 13:30:29

Hello all!! I'm a newbie... Tried to fast last Friday but failed miserably.
Fasting today so far so good. I had my calories for lunch and from now on, it is nothing else (I'm never too hungry in the evening)... Lets see how it goes!

starlady Mon 26-Nov-12 13:36:23

Hi, I've only posted occasionally but have been following this WOE for the past month, I think I've lost about 4 pounds. skippy, I wonder if the compliance issue with this study is linked to their age? Young women more likely to have an active social life which makes fasting tricky? Just a thought. Personally, the idea of restricting calories everyday would depress me! But each to their own ...

If i can throw one question out to the female 5/2-ers - how have people found fasting just before and during period? I am coming round to that time of the month, and so far today I am OK, but yesterday (feast) i gave in to my urges for pino noir and caramel chocs.

Today, so far one apple juice (which i needed with a nurofen - did I mention the pino noir?), a tea and 2 coffees with minimal milk. I have an M & S fuller for longer meal (380 cals) which I'll probaby eat about six. Nearly 24 hours without solid food ...

GreenEggsAndNichts Mon 26-Nov-12 14:58:15

Hello all smile Checking in after a big eating weekend (Thanksgiving!) For those wondering how Christmas will be, I'll tell you: miserable. grin I felt very full and quite uncomfortable for hours after our meal, and no, I didn't eat a shocking amount. I didn't even get our big plates out! I suspect it was all the stuffing..

Anyway. I've been MIA a week or so because I was feeling a bit sorry for myself. I caught a glimpse of my naked self in the mirror at the hotel I was staying in last weekend, and I don't know, the sight just really depressed me. sad I haven't let it get me off-track or anything; I'm still plugging away with my fast days. It's just hit me that despite my 17 lb loss or so (I've not weighed myself this week yet, will not be surprised if I've not lost after the holiday, though!) I've just got so much more to do.

And, of course, the fact that I've had a child and all that, even when I do finish losing or get to a happy place, I'm just going to look as good as I'd like. I admit, I'm still wallowing a bit.

Sorry. It's not put me off! I'm sticking with it and will actually be stepping up efforts this week at least. No doubt the dark days aren't helping me much.

Today is going as every fast day does: lots of coffee, later will be a veg-heavy meal of some sort. I'll check out the lettuce in the fridge, if it needs eating then it'll be salad, otherwise it'll be soup. Or, a bit of both. smile

literarygeek Mon 26-Nov-12 15:07:14

GE&N don't be sad! I think we can all get a bit down with the weather, but you have encouraged and helped loads of us. You will get there!

(I was having a bit of a wallow earlier myself but then I heard from a friend who has a very ill baby and I gave myself a stern talking to).

literarygeek Mon 26-Nov-12 15:07:52

Also- have soup- it is needed on a day like today!

TalkinPeace2 Mon 26-Nov-12 15:16:47

I've finally got my figure back to where I want it. DS is 12 :-) You are way ahead of me on that stakes!

And actually Christmas will be GREAT. It will just be different. Plan your meals so that there is one good one each day, one small highly flavoured one and if needs be another little, luxurious one
Christmas day
breakfast : single egg benedict (yup, with hollandaise) - no booze
lunch : smoked salmon, smoked duck and salad - small glass of fizzy
supper : goose or rib of beef and all the trimmings - red wine
Boxing day
breakfast : single BLT English Muffin - no booze
lunch : soup (leftover veg used up!) - no booze
supper : gammon / ham and jacket potatoes and veg - cider or beer

with a teeny bit of portion control, what feels like eating like a king, but with minimal leftovers and not too many calories as the portions are smaller.