Sorry to be thick, but....

[biryani]

.....can someone please tell me why 5:2 is better than simply counting calories every day? I've worked out that if I eat 600 calories twice a week, I can then eat 1400 on non-fast days to take in the same amount of weekly calories I allow myself on Mfp.

I fancy 5:2, but not sure I can deal with the hunger pangs!

[ZipIt]

My understanding is that there are two factors to this:

1. 5:2 has been shown to be relatively easy to stick to (no general feelings of deprivation as you can eat relatively freely on non-fast days).
   
   
2. There are additional health benefits to having periods of fasting. Intermittently going without (many) calories for relatively extended periods of time has measurable chemical effects. This apparently gives your body periods of "repair mode" between periods of "growth mode", and reduces your risk of a number of different diseases.
   
   I'm sure other MN-ers will be able to add to this account!

[BsshBossh]

I agree with ZipIt. I did daily calorie counting for a year and found it incredibly instructive in terms of healthy, normal portion sizes, but I got bored by it. on 5:2 I only need to thing about "dieting" twice a week and can relax more on other days. 5:2 has re-set my appetite so I no longer (generally) overstuff myself on non-fasting days but I don't have to log and this is liberating. Hunger was an issue to begin with but I quickly realised it was largely mental hunger. After nine months of fasting, I'm no longer bothered by "hunger".

[BsshBossh]

*think not thing

[BsshBossh]

Yes, the health benefits of fasting keep me motivated to stick with 5:2 for the longterm.

[biryani]

Thanks. I already skip breakfast, and don't find that particularly difficult. I'm hungry, but manage ok. I don't eat between 8pm and 1pm next day. How hungry would I get, do you think, on 600 cals a day? Would it be a manageable level of hunger?

[MelanieCheeks]

Thats something none of us can say - you'll just have to try it for yourself!

Why are you discussing 600 cals, are you a male, out of interest?

[biryani]

Fgs is it fewer than 600? Must've made a mistake. ...500?

[MelanieCheeks]

500 for ladies, 600 for blokes. Could I suggest you have a look at the "read me first" thread on this section, as it has lots of useful information.

[Lilacroses]

biryani, I have been doing 5/2 for about 6 weeks now. When I fast on one of my work days I literally barely notice, it is so easy. I find my fast day on my non working day much more difficult. Having said that it's manageable for me. My Dp who is also doing it is a much bigger build than I am but she hasn't found it tricky at all really which is interesting.

I did have one fast day where I actually felt unwell by the evening so I just ate a bit more. I don't stress too much about it, I'm losing weight slowly and I feel as if this is something that could work long term for me. Like many people this has educated me about how much I used to overeat so even on my non fast days I tend to eat alot less and make healthier choices. I actually wouldn't mind if I didn't lose much more weight (I'm now into my healthy band on the BMI chart) but I like this as a way to maintain that healthy weight.

[frenchfancy]

1400 cals on a non fast day (or NFD) sounds very low unless you are tiny. You should eat your TDEE on nfds. See the read me thread for more details.

[biryani]

French I generally eat about that when left to my own devices. I'm not a massive eater and the "recommended" 2000 weight-maintenance calorie allowance is way to much for me. I'm not tiny either -far from it-I'm a plumpish size 12, 5'4 with probably about a stone to lose. 1500 is the max daily intake for me, I think.

By the way, all, does 5:2 allow you to factor in exercise? That's my favourite feature of Mfp. If I go over my allowance, I just jog on the spot for a bit!

[BsshBossh]

LOL loving the image of you running on the spot to get more calories in. I used to do that too . Your TDEE can either include your exercise (mine does) and you don't eat back exercise cals, or you can set your TDEE as sedentary (loads, including TiP I think, do this) and eat back cals as you exercise (or save them for the weekend!). But don't eat back exercise cals on fast days - stick to 500 cals or less.

[WilsonFrickett]

I think the real question is, does counting calories every day work for you? If it does, no need to change it. It certainly worked for me in the medium-term - I lost two stones. But then I stopped doing it and the weight crept back. I kind of feel with this way of eating its a bit like AA - I will have to stick to it for the rest of my life. But because it's working for me and because I am not deprived or always counting cals - doing this for the rest of my life doesn't bother me in the slightest.

But it doesn't suit everyone. If your way works for you then that's great.

[biryani]

Wilson I think I know what you mean. Yes, I can usually stick to my 1200 mfp calories, as long as I can factor in exercise. However, if I go over, or start eating mindlessly again, the risk of putting on weight is greater as it's easy to lose the plot, particularly in holidays and when dcs are about. On 5:2 though, there's always a bit more room for manoeuvre as you are eating so little on fast days. This is why 5:2 appeals.

I think also that if you are given a calorie allowance, you eat up to it. So if I have a few calories spare at the end of the day I will have something (usually rubbish) just to use it up. This is why I don't think mfp is working for me so well at the moment: it's flexible but also a little too forgiving of poor eating habits.

What interests me particularly is, when on 5:2, do people go mad on non-fast days?

[BsshBossh]

What interests me particularly is, when on 5:2, do people go mad on non-fast days? I think you'll see from the main #30 thread that many of those new or recent to fasting go wildly off-piste on non-fast days but those of us who've been fasting more than a few months have found our appetites have adjusted sufficiently to eat more moderately overall.

[WilsonFrickett]

I think also that if you are given a calorie allowance, you eat up to it

I agree, which is why counting calories doesn't work for me.

[BeCoolFucker]

I've just completed my 2FD of week 2. I don't go wildly off piste on non fast days, in fact I find I am comparatively not really interested in food. I eat OK but I think the FD's stabilise my blood sugar so I feel very 'normal' (good normal not overeating normal) on NFD's which is amazing.

Yes I get hungry, but really its quite easy to be hungry for a few hours knowing that I can eat "anything i want tomorrow". In fact tomorrow I will wake up and have tomatoes on toast and coffee for breakfast - nothing outrageous at all.

Good things for me are:

1. Only have to think about what I am eating 2/7 days. Such a relief not to have to be 'engaged' with calorie counting etc all the time.
2. Easy
3. seems to stabilise my blood sugar and eliminate/reduce cravings.
4. the science/health benefits too of course

[biryani]

Just had a low-calorie day yesterday and woke up with a slight headache, which I usually y get if I change eating habits. Meant to ask: how do you factor in drinks? Assuming water is unlimited, what else apart from diet fizz or black tea and coffee?

be cool you mention blood sugar. How do you know when your levels ate stable?

[BeCoolFucker]

it's just something I feel.

I've been existing in wanting to eat all the time mode for ages now - craving food etc. When everything is calm and fine and normal I feel like my blood sugar is stable - I've not tested it or anything Fasting gets me to that place really quickly.

[MelanieCheeks]

I drink loads of different herbal and rooibos teas. I only drink diet fizz on FDs, and I love Tescos diet ginger beer, or shandy.

Infused waters are nice - mint and cucumber, or apple with a cinnamon stick. And in summer I made a fake Pimms with sparkling watter, dash of angostura and a dash of balsamic, usual fruit garnish.

Hot drinks - Bovril, marmite, bouillon. And a 40 calorie Options hot chocolate at bedtime.

[WilsonFrickett]

The one thing I would say biryani is however you do it, you have to keep the fluids well up on a FD. I have a green tea every hour with water while I'm waiting for the kettle to boil. The one time I fasted when I wasn't at home (I work from home) I forgot to drink enough and had a banging headache. To me it's the only real FD 'rule'.

[biryani]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I didn't realise Tesco do diet ginger! Love that, and it's about time to drop some of the caffeine I'm taking in.

Here goes!

[ErrolTheDragon]

Drinks - main thing I find is to drink more than usual because of not getting as much liquid from food as usual. I drink water, herbal teas (just had a cup of a really nice Twinings citrussy one) but also normal tea with milk because that's the one thing I can't do without - so I have to use some of the 500 cals on the milk. I also have low calorie squash with fizzy water.

I hate calorie counting so I have some sort of ready meal with extra veg to make the main meal easy.

[BeCoolFucker]

I'm drinking loads too.

[biryani]

I can't do without tea completely either. Interesting point about water coming from food. Hadn't thought about that.

I've just discovered the joy of vaping! I've had the "fag" in my mouth for most of the afternoon and I haven't thought about food at all!