Government's "new" great childcare plan....

(395 Posts)
duende Mon 18-Mar-13 18:09:09

I know there was a thread about it here a few weeks ago, but now a bit more detail is available:

parents to get 20% of childcare cost back

Now, I can't help but see it as a bit of a con. First of all, annoyed by how they sell it - our childcare bill is closer to 10-12k, so £1200 per year is NOT 20%.
Also, at the moment, both me and DP get the full amount available in childcare vouchers, which they will abolish. I get £243 per month, DP gets £220, and I am a higher tax payer.
Surely we will not be better off with this great new deal they have come up with?

Also, this will only be available to families where both parents work, current childcare voucher scheme is not restricted this way.

Am I missing something here, or are they about to screw people over again whilst dressing it as a positive move??

fraktion Mon 18-Mar-13 20:08:30

Per household is nuts. I thought I read ages ago that they were looking at per child schemes? Per household it's LESS!

Dozer Mon 18-Mar-13 20:18:05

I don't like the BBC story, it is one-sided.

Will wait until the full information is published, but question the £6,000 "average" figure, assume that the "average" (mean?) must include part-time nursery places and school-age DC. £6000 would surely not be average for a full-time place for a toddler, for example.

In London we used to pay £800 a month for one child for three days a week, so £9600 a year. Now in home counties pay around £12,500 for two DC for three days, one of school age.

StillStuck Mon 18-Mar-13 20:23:22

am I being thick? its been a long day so probably... but..I am not sure it is actually bad news if both parents are earning?
at present each parent can take £243 a month tax free (i.e. vouchers as a salary sacrifice), so if you are basic rate payer that is an actual saving of approx £50/month per parent (or £100 per month total)

which works out at a saving of £600 per year?
so under the new scheme you could potentially save £1200 per year instead? (if both parents work)

or am I being dim???! (like I say, probably)

StillStuck Mon 18-Mar-13 20:31:52

oh god, just realised I got my maths wrong!! and forgot about NI. maybe it was someone as tired as me that worked out the policy...

yes even 2 basic rate tax payers would be worse off.

god that's stupid after all their stuff about trying to help working parents.

getyourshoesonNOW Mon 18-Mar-13 20:32:02

So both parents work and get help towards childcare costs. One gets made redundant. The family suddenly has to cope on one salary AND loses their nursery costs. Many will withdraw children from childcare. If the parent who lost their job finds another one, they might not be able to find new childcare at short notice. What happens then?

This STUPID government has, once again, utterly failed to think things through. They just don't consult with ordinary people either. They are IDIOTS

Fucking bastards.

That is all.

redandwhitesprinkles Mon 18-Mar-13 21:03:29

Child care vouchers make it worth me working. I might as well give up.... Our nursery is £1800 a month for 2. £115 a month instead of £486 seems a bit crapola!

CharlotteBronteSaurus Mon 18-Mar-13 21:05:55

again, i would love to find out about all these full-time childcare places for £6k pa
we pay almost exactly £6k pa for dd2 to attend nursery for 2.5 days per week. We're not in London/SE, either.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

The maths can be seen here for different rates of tax payer.

If you are basic rate payers you get about £5.8k of vouchers per year which you aren't paying 20% PAYE and 12% NIC - so you save about £1.8k. So you will be £600 worse off.

nilbyname Mon 18-Mar-13 22:52:27

I am so rubbish with numbers but all I am getting so far from those if you who have worked it out is.....everyone will be worse off. Can we get twittering on this? I am disgusted.

What can we do? MN is quite influential how do we harness that and show Dave et al what we think?

Key beneficiaries are the self employed and (I hope) single parents. Self employed people can't use vouchers at the moment and single parents get only one lot of vouchers, so half the benefit that a couple receives. However it really isn't clear how this will work with the different permutations of family that exist.

PastaBeeandCheese Mon 18-Mar-13 23:15:26

According to the Daily Mail (I know, I know) it is going to be per child and can be claimed by single parents. If this is true then everyone with more than 1 child will be better off wont they?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2295514/Working-parents-given-1-200-tax-relief-childcare-New-scheme-means-families-earning-150-000-given-help.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Startail Mon 18-Mar-13 23:15:37

And those of us who choose to bring up our own DDs get Fuck all, well actually since DH's taxes help fund child care allowances and we've lost our child benefit we get rather less than fuck all.

Actually Startail even though my DD goes to nursery, I would describe DH and Myself as bringing our DD up, or will you cease to bring up your DC when they start school?

TantieTowie Mon 18-Mar-13 23:30:14

I'm self-employed but by 2015 my now two-year-old will be about to go to school, so not much good to me. Why can't I just write childcare off against tax now? Or from beginning of the new tax year in April, at least? If I had a chauffeur I could write their services off against tax. Hmm, maybe I'm missing a trick and need a chauffeur who can multitask and do my childcare too...

Strangeface Mon 18-Mar-13 23:39:37

Nilbyname - couldn't agree more. It's clearly yet another awful policy from a group of people who can't know the price of a pint of milk. If they do it makes it worse. I've been feeling for a while that it's time to challenge the government on it's appalling decisions and policies dressed up as "hard choices". This may be the place to start.

gallicgirl Mon 18-Mar-13 23:43:40

Has anyone seen anything on how this might impact on the childcare element of child tax credit?

Startail Mon 18-Mar-13 23:50:20

No offence meant to work ing parents, I know we are very lucky to have one decent income we can live one.

I just hate the attitude of all governments, Tory and Labour to SAHMs.

GreenEggsAndNichts Mon 18-Mar-13 23:54:30

This is disgusting. Who the fuck thought this was a good idea.

mam29 Tue 19-Mar-13 00:10:37

Add message | Report | Message poster ReallyTired Mon 18-Mar-13 19:38:37
What is unfair is that parents on benefits get 15 hours of free care from 2 years old, but a family with a SAHP cannot use the vouchers to pay for their chidlren to have pre school eduation from 2. If the governant thinks that nursery care from the age of two is good for children then surely they should encourage all parents to access pre school education.

Totally agree tried to ake this point on aibu and got sahm mum dont need this perk.

Also agree with kazzo.

1parent working over 50k loses cb
2parents in 49k keep and get the new 1200 saving.

I have 3kids 1 school age other 2 need nursery if went back full time.
£80 a day and they offering 24quid a week!

when went back full time in 2007 my childcare bill was 850 a month.

I think job market uncertain an hear about people being made redundant all time.,

They should try being a mum looking for job when so any looking for jobs and employers want full flexibility.

will it effect single parents/widows?
do you have to work 25hour min?
i cant afford right now on 1salary to pay 25hours income?

most part timers 16hours of less.

also a warning about current vouchers its salary sacrafice so will dimish pension contribution.

Only 2years ago they changed the amount higher rate tax payers could claim.
todays papers make it sound great its rubbish when will people see the detail and realise its bad.

looks like they cant agree

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/iain-duncan-smith-blocks-plan-for-childcare-tax-breaks-in-budget-8537670.html#.UUdwtVW1oYk.twitter

sept 2015 my youngest starts school.

will it include childcare for 5+like vouchers for holiday/after school clubs?

catgirl1976 Tue 19-Mar-13 00:31:20

FFS

DH doesn't work and I get vouchers atm.

It will be another bloody thing we don't get now. DH isn't entitled to any benefits because of my income. Fair enough, but stuff like this was a help and now I lose out because I only have one child.

Thanks.

mam29 Tue 19-Mar-13 00:33:03

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/families-will-receive-up-to-1200-towards-cost-of-childcare-under-new-plan-8539784.html

oh and this caught my eye

its phased in from april 2015 guess old ones then defunct.

take my delightful children as example.

i decide oh will get a job but childcare costs more than my wages even with the extra money.

My delightful kids then start school so from september 2015 will have 3school kids in primary school surly its easier and cheaper for me to work then with all the school holidays and inset days aside and the abundance of school hour jobs 9.30-3. its ok my lovlely primary has a breckfast club that costs £2.50,the afterschool club 3.15 -5.30 is £8.50 a day and the holiday club is £60 a week.

if I work fulltime now hubbys 41k which think works works out £12 a hour gross.

to put all 3kids in brekkie club and after school club would be

£11 per child £33 per day 165 a week £530

heres the sting

It will initially help 1.3 million families with children under five but will be extended, probably over five years, to cover children up to the age of 12.

probably over 5years so what do i do between 2015 and 2020 to ensure im working and its worth my while working?

mam29 Tue 19-Mar-13 00:34:01
nannynick Tue 19-Mar-13 06:04:24

Radio4 just said it is Per Child, so if that is the case it may be good news for some families. However as ever the details seem to be missing. Why anounce this sort of thing yet withhold the fine print?

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