Can someone tell me about clarinets please?

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

We want to buy one for DD1 for her birthday next month. We can't spend a fortune. We're happy to buy second hand...we were thinking ebay but not sure how to do so sensibly.

What makes? What do we need to consider? What do we need to buy with it?

Also, what book would be good for her to start with. A teacher isn't an option right now - we just want it for her to fiddle around with until she gets keen enough to want to learn it formally. She's been learning recorder from a book for the last year.

[Elasticwoman]

A clarinet is not a good instrument to fiddle about on without a teacher, as a player needs to develop a good embouchure (way of blowing). Better to rent instrument and have a few lessons, then decide.

[NormaSnorks]

Agree with ElasticWoman - need a proper teacher, as embouchure is everything. Otherwise your daughter will try playing it like a recorder, it will screech, and she will give up demotivated.

How old is your DD? Does your school have any music provision to borrow instruments?

Clarinet is a difficult instrument too. The fingering is half like a recorder, then not!

A flute might be better?

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

She'll be 7. She's home educated. Our friend plays and teaches enough instruments to get her started but I know my daughter won't want formal lessons just yet. We have researched and researched the right instrument for her.

Can anyone advise the best make to get?

[weegiemum]

Boosey and Hawkes is good.

But I too (am a grade 8 clarinet player, started age 9) would not advise it 1) this young and 2) without lessons. Its hard, and there are so many technique issues that I would really consider whether this is just going to put her of music forever!

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

Ok, I am not in the slightest annoyed by any of your posts, but I am bloody irritated by all the bloody conflicting advice we've had about this over the last few months!

She wants to learn sax eventually. We've been advised not until she's much, much older - early teens ideally. She's fed up with recorder. We've been advised flute, but then told that the embouchure is all wrong, and clarinet would be better. This all by people who know her/know her story.

I can't believe how frustrated I feel about this - we've saved up for this and she's so desperate to learn a new instrument and to get one step further to her dream of playing sax.

Gah!

Now I don't know what to do!

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

Right, deep breath!

Do I have to tell her she needs to stick to recorder for a few years, or is there anything else she can move to to keep her interest up?

[frakkinnuts]

Flute embouchure is wrong for sax, but the fingering is right. She also won't do damage to her sax embouchure by fiddling around and flutes are cheaper. I know several flautists who are very good saxophonists and you can start very young with a flute with a curved head so she can reach.

Clarinet/sax I would definitely not advise at 7. I've refused to teach 7 year olds because their teeth typically aren't set enough yet to withstand the pressure of the mouthpiece. At 8 it's been a case of hand-size and approval from their dentist. I would never advise messing around without a teacher. Bad habits got into on clarinet will be magnified on sax and you need a good foundation or you'll never progress.

Recorder is good - the fingering is the same for sax (sop and tenor) and you can get different types of recorder to keep the interest up (treble has different fingering, like the lower register of the clarinet).

Any wind instrument will strengthen her diaphragm and many of the fundamental techniques are the same.

No offence, but are the people who've been giving you advice qualified teachers of those instruments?

[Nymphadora]

dd1 is learning the clarinet & I sat in her first lesson so I would know what she was practising.

I played the flute as a teenager as I'm totally flumoxed by the fingering and can't get a sound out of it. dd1 is managing fine with lessons and isn't screetching so obviously th elessons are paying off.

What I'm trying to say is that I feel some formal lessons are needed otherwise she will be discouraged and lose interest very quickly

[thehat]

I would also advise not to start until their adult teeth are through.

Self - teaching a wind instrument is not a good idea, as if the fundamentals are not learnt properly, it is very hard to correct poor technique later on. I have known of many pupils unable to get past grade 5 due to poor techniques that have been learnt when they began their instrument.

Elkhart have some sound, cheap clarinets that would do for a beginner. You can get new ones for under £100.

[NormaSnorks]

I've played recorders (ALL of them - including bass!),Violin (briefly), piano, clarinet and most recently sax.

I didn't start clarinet until I was 13, but them progressed through to Grade 7 in 3-4 years because I had all the basic musical knowledge.

I know it must be frustrating, but I really think 7 is too young. It's a very complex instrument. The upper register is different fingering to the lower register, the cross over the 'break' between the two is hard.

It's actually quite a big/ heavyish instrument for small hands. And, as others say, the adult teeth need to be well-established.

Personally, I'd go for flute for fingering and age-appropriateness, and then she could start the sax at about 10?

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

Frankinnuts - very helpful advice, thank you. Most of our advice has come from professional musicians, but not actually teachers of those instruments. No offence taken, I'm just frustrated trying to find the right route for her, whilst maintaining her interest. DH's family is very musical and I want her to be able to have a part in that if that's what she wants and not be put off by doing things too late, or too early.

Nympha - don't worry. I'm going to talk to her about holding off on the clarinet, perhaps having some formal recorder lessons to see how she feels about them, and then maybe seeing if she'd like to have a flute for her Christmas present. She's pretty sensible, so I think she'll think rationally about it and be happy about that idea.

Norma and Zapostrophe - she has her adult front teeth, but of course they're still new so vulnerable I guess. All the reasons you give for not having a clarinet this young are the reasons we were told not to have a sax this young and to try clarinet first (that face isn't at you, two, btw!).

I think we've been unlucky in the advice we've had up until now and what I've read this evening has been far clearer and better explained, so thank you all. I will talk to her in the morning, and see what else she might like for her birthday instead.

[islandofsodor]

I would just like to say that I totally agree with the advice given. She is too young, wait until adult teeth are established and it is a very hard instrument to pick up on your own.

It isn;t just a case of developing a bad embouchure and so finding it very difficult to correct bad habits later, these bad habits can be pretty damaging to her teeth.

[frakkinnuts]

Much as I adore professional musicians they do have some very odd ideas about the best age to start various instruments, particularly as advice has changed even since I trained (not that long ago). They're often of the opinion you can 'never start too young' (wrong) or 'a teacher stifles creativity' (also wrong, jazz musicians are particularly bad for saying that for some reason).

They are right on some things - clarinet is a good precursor to sax - but very over-optimistic about starting at 7. Clarinet at 9 and sax at 11 I could buy into but both of them need your adult teeth to be firmly set. She could, as someone else said, start sax at 10 - my sister did as has had no problems that didn't exist before IYSWIM. You can get very good harnesses for sax that put the weight onto the shoulders and distribute it across the back. It's also worth noting the embouchure is not exactly the same and clarinet/sax players often have quite a 'tight' embouchure on sax and a looser one on clarinet. This could be a problem if she ever wanted to take up tenor/bass sax or Eb clarinet. With flute you don't get any embouchure 'confusion'.

Is she desperate to stay on a wind instrument? Can you bribe her with something like a guitar which you can't really do any harm fiddling around with? Lots of guitarists are self-taught.

A specialist teacher is an absolute must. In fact I would make it non-negotiable - she wants to learn sax or clarinet she goes to a teacher to do it properly. After a couple of years she should be sufficiently well established in her habits to start 'freestyling' but the foundation needs to be there. I play several instruments to above Grade 8 but I would only consider teaching those that I've actually been trained to do so. Instrumental teacher training has a lot about spotting and correcting bad habits that an excellent player won't even realise exist. Finally I don't think you can never start too late. I first picked up an oboe at 17 and did my Grade 8 3 years later with a good base from clarinet and flute and a healthy dose of motivation. I haven't played it since uni but that's not the point!

Digressing slightly and answering your original question:-

there are many makes of clarinet if you decide to go for one. It is better to get a good one that will take her to Grade 6 (Yamaha 3 series, Buffet B12 or B13) than a super cheap one that you will need to upgrade for her to take Grade 5. After Grade 6 you can take the decision to get a mid-range better model or a professional standard one. The brand you choose now in no way limits you later on. I had a Yamaha 3 series which took to G6. Very good intonation and Japanese manufacturing never let me down. They also get on well with poor(er) reeds, which is good when cost is a consideration and very forgiving for a beginner when you split a reed a week! At higher levels I've heard Yamahas compared to Hondas - always start in the morning but The One You've Always Searched For! I find with Buffet models the keys for the throat notes (G#/A) often stick and the quality seems to have gone down compared to the old Buffet B12s. I also recommend the Leblanc Vito 7212. Expensive and more of an intermediate instrument but sooooo easy to play is a Leblanc Bliss. I have an old series Leblanc Concerto (from before the factory burnt down and they did a total rebrand) and they're just divine to play. I've never had a go on one I didn't like. Personally I don't particularly like Selmer or Jupiter - Selmers are the exception the rule about moving on to a different brand when you upgrade (once a Selmer player, usually always a Selmer player)

I also wouldn't advise you to buy on ebay. Ideally you need someone to play it for you. This is where a teacher comes in handy as they can put you in contact with a higher-level student looking to upgrade or will know where to look. When buying check the pads, the movement of the keywork, whether there are any chips or cracks on the instrument itself and whether the keys are tarnished or flaking.

Finally it's worth investing in a new mouthpiece.

[keepitsweet]

I hope I don't offend the other posters, I just wanted to give you a different perspective.

When I had just turned 8 I started to learn the saxophone, and loved every minute of it, and quickly progressed through the grades. This was despite the best will of my music teacher persuading my parents that this was wrong at this age. The teacher wanted me to learn the violin , and then the clarinet, and then the saxophone when I was around 11.

I was a stubborn mule (still am) and was adament that I was going to do the saxophone. The only thing that I found difficult due to age was the weight, but I soon got used to this, and my parents invested in a good neck sling.

I started with a Yamaha, can't recall the model.

HTH.

[zippy539]

Not sure if this is helpful but my brother is a professional sax player who started the clarinet at 11 and his teeth ARE A MESS.

He's forty now and refuses to get them fixed because he doesn't want to mess with his 'blow'....

(not suggesting that no one ever plays sax/clarinet because of cosmetic reasons - just that they wait until their teeth are all in place!)

[flussymummy]

I have just come across this post and would like to add to the opinions....

What age to begin: Julian Bliss began when he was 4. He's a great player, has a good embouchure and his teeth are not messed up.
I'll come clean here- my husband and I are directors of a clarinet company, so obviously we have an interest in the subject- but I think we might have the answer for your daughter MrsWobble- hope it's not too late for her birthday!
Take a look at Hanson clarinets website www.hansonclarinets.com and in particular the Chalumeau - an instrument designed specifically for age 7 - 11 year olds on the government wider opportunities scheme.

www.hansonclarinets.com/Hanson_Clarinet_Company._Making_Music_in_Great_Britain./Ch alumeau.html

The instrument is designed as an introduction to playing wind instruments and uses a clarinet mouthpiece, oversize oval holes which help small fingers locate, it's inexpensive and made in Britain.

There is also a scheme of work available designed specifically for non-specialist primary school teachers (i.e. non players) to teach children not only the instrument but all elements of key stage 2 music for a whole year. This would also be suitable for use with a home educated child. Hope this helps!

[flussymummy]

Sorry- that should be
www.hansonclarinets.com

and

Hanson Chalumeau

[Dollytwat]

DS1 started last year so he was 7

I got a new clarinet off ebay for about 30 pounds

He can play it really well, gets a lovely sound out of it

But he's bored now and wants to play something 'cooler' like the drums

So I may have a nearly new clarinet if you want one

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

Does all of the above (teeth) apply to the oboe?

[marialuisa]

Hi Belle,

DD plays, don't know if you're thinking out of school, but if you are there is a fab teacher (and cheap!) at the music centre at St B's. Embouchure is still important but any prospective teacher should be able to tell you if it's likely to be a problem.

[busimummy]

You sound as if you know what you are talking about when it comes to the ease of playing and sound quality of clarinets. I am afraid I am always having to look at the cost of things and I have been searching the LeBlanc clarinets that you recommended. However I found that the 7214 model is the cheapest, how would you rate it in terms of ease of playing, sound quality and use through various grades?

[Fluteyboots]

I would agree with having some proper recorder lessons, with a view to moving onto something else if she wants to. Recorder is a beautiful instrument if played properly, and there are lots of groups to join. You can get into Renaissance and baroque music and learn all the different sizes of recorder as well as things like crumhorns if the fancy takes you.

I am a flautist / piccoloist, and yes you can start this younger if you get an appropriate instrument. However, I would not advise self-teaching flute at all. As with clarinet, developing a good embouchure from the start is really important. You can only progress with a good technique, and bad habits are v v hard to break.