Theatrical agency offering to represent DS. Does anyone have experience of similar?

[NotAStageMother]

Both my DCs have been attending a holiday theatre workshop at a local performing arts centre. Apparently this week someone from a theatrical agency came in to look at the children, and I have now been approached with an offer from the agency to represent DS, who is 8.

As far as I can tell it seems above board. The performing arts centre has worked with the agency for some years and the agency has placed a number of their pupils in West End shows and TV. The agency doesn't charge a fee for representation, but would require us to pay for photographs (fee to photographer, not the agency) and a year's subscription to Spotlight. The agency is based in central London and represents children and adults. Their website looks very professional and gives information on adult and child clients who have gained roles in a mixture of West End musicals, theatre and television. They are already talking about putting DS up for a particular role in a West End show.

DS is very keen to do it. He loves acting and has a good (but untrained) singing voice, though he isn't much of a dancer. However it is not something we had ever considered doing and I don't know much about what it would involve and am very cautious about embarking on something that might cause lots of upheaval. The information we have been sent from the agency mentions making a commitment to attend castings/auditions, sometimes at short notice. DH and I both work ft (though my job is quite flexible and lots of it can be done from a laptop on the move), and have a younger DC to consider.

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing - either positive or negative? Are we mad to consider it if neither of us is a SAHP? I am a great believer in pursuing opportunities as they arise but not sure whether we would be biting off more than we can chew with this one!

[Heels99]

My dds have the opportunity but we haven't taken it up so far as they do other extra curricular so as well and we haven't the time to invest in auditions etc. If your son wants to do it, has the resilience to cope with the audition process and associated potential disappointments, if you live in or near London and don't mind the £200 or whatever for spotlight and pics then why not go for it? All you have to lose is a relatively small amount of money but play it right down with your son, expectations need to be managed carefully.

[NotAStageMother]

Thanks for your response, Heels. It's the "time to invest in auditions" bit that worries me.

I agree about downplaying expectations - I've already debunked some of the supposed glamour and talked about waiting around at auditions for hours only to be rejected.

[LIZS]

Are you within an hour of the WestEnd as most non-leads stipulate this? How amenable is school likely to be to dropping everything at short notice and time off for auditions and performances? Work is often demanding for a few months with long breaks.

[NotAStageMother]

LIZS, we live within an hour of the West End (and I work quite close to that area).

School has some experience of child performers and has had pupils in TV/West End productions before. The idea of having to drop everything for auditions during school (and working) hours does worry me - my schedule may not always allow it even if school is OK with it. After school not such an issue as I work flexible hours in order to do school pickups.

[balletgirlmum]

You don't need an agent to get WE theatre auditions. You just need to contact Jo Hawes, Jessica Ronane or Debbie O Brien direct (between them they cover Matilda, Charlie, Gypsy, Billy, Priscilla & Les Mis & more)

It's more necessary for commecials & tv.

[danceteacheruk]

True balletgirlmum, you don't NEED an agent to work in the West End, but any child working in the profession SHOULD have an agent. Not only are they there to negotiate the contract, but they also handle most of the legal side, and protect your child's welfare whilst under contract as well. There is no such thing as a 'standard' contract for children working in the West End and the only way to protect your child's interests is to make sure you have an experienced child actor agent on your side.

But going back to the original post... the agency does sound legit and if they have history with the school, that's a good sign. The only thing I would advise, is that you ask to approve the photos before handing over any cash. The portfolio is your child's 'shop window', so a reputable agency will agree to this. You should not pay for shoddy photos that won't get your child work. do also make sure you check out the commission fees and the terms and conditions of when and how you will be paid for any work they get etc.

As for dropping everything for auditions, don't worry about that too much. Castings don't really come along that often and you can usually get away with taking some time off work. And if your child is lucky enough to get a lot of calls, the agent will understand if you can't make them all, as long as they can see you are making the effort. What they don't want are those kids that every client asks to see, but they always refuse... that's not good for the agent's reputation and they don't unreliable kids on their books.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Very late to this. I disagree that a child working in theatre needs an agent. The contracts are pretty standard especially as the kids are sharing roles.

For commercials yes, & you will get more opportunities in film and TV if you have an agent.

Ds2 (13) has performed in a number of different professional theatre shows, - including working abroad - has been in films & voice overs - he doesn't have an agent. We did meet with one but they said they'd expect him to get to london with 24 hour notice to audition for commercials. We're a four hour train ride away so that was never going to happen & I decided I preferred us to be able choose what to audition for.

As mentioned above Jo Hawes, Jessica Ronane & Debbie O Brien cover kids work & are fairly easy to follow (Jo has a website, Debbie a facebook page for example). My son has been cast by two of those - in each case I just sent his cv into them after they'd requested suggestions & he was invited to audition.

Jo also has a book worth reading if you do start going for auditions etc - she links from her webpage.

Good luck - ds2 just fell into it - was never a plan, but he's absolutely loved it. His voice is threatening to break now so he's probably played his last theatre role for a while, but he's had a blast.

[NotAStageMother]

My thanks to all who have replied since I last checked the thread - it's very useful to hear from people with some experience of all this.

DS and I met with the agency, who seemed reassuringly pragmatic about children (and parents) not always being able to drop everything instantly to attend castings. DS was desperate to do it, and rather keen on the possibility of TV/film as well as theatre, so we decided to go ahead.

He has his first audition next week with one of the casting directors mentioned above, is very, very excited and I'm trying to gently manage expectations!

[Devilishpyjamas]

Good luck to him! Hope he enjoys himself.

I spent a long time telling ds2 that 'no-one gets cast on their first audition' - and then he did and was worried that I thought he was rubbish because I'd spent so long telling him he wouldn't get it

Seriously though, for ds2 not getting stuff at times has been a good learning experience as well - he's come to learn that it's not personal, that it can depend on who else it cast, can depend on height, etc etc and also that the world doesn't end if he doesn't get something.

As I said he fell into it all really, but it has done wonders for his confidence (not to mention bank balance).

[danceteacheruk]

I will re-iterate again... no child NEEDS and agent, but you SHOULD always consider having one. It's like home insurance, you don't get it because you expect your house to catch fire, you get it just in case.

I will also re-iterate that NO contracts are standard. The likes of Jessica, Debbie and others who cast children, will certainly offer the same contract to every child, but remember who they work for... the Producer! Their job is to look after the producer's interests (and bank balance). An agent or personal manager is there to look after your child's interests and can often negotiate a better contract, even with their cut taken out!

Now I understand that some parents are happy to go it alone, take what's offered and cut out the middle man; that's fair enough. If they want to take that risk, good luck to them, but from my 12 years of experience working with casting agents and personal managers after I retired from performing, I would never recommend it.

I once has to deal with a child who had a very serious injury on a trampoline during rehearsals for a show. Under contract with us, the parents had the support of our legal team, with specialist knowledge of the industry. This ultimately led to a very quick compensation settlement, saving them £100s, perhaps £1000s in legal fees. That's just one of many examples. These things don't happen very often, but they do happen and when they do, an agent is there to help you.

[JaneAustinAllegro]

I disagree that having an agent had anything to do with a quick compensation claim. Productions and venues are legally required to be insured for precisely that type of event and access to personal injury legal services is not exclusively through agents or managers. I suspect your own legal advisers are theatrical lawyers rather than personal injury anyway and would have to go elsewhere as it's a very unlikely combination to have under one roof.Household insurance legal services would have covered it just as easily without commissioning earnings to do so, and most personal injury lawyers operate no win / no fee anyway.
I see a lot of agency / management agreements which make me weep for the talent; there are a surprising number of sharks out there who will take 20% (or even a monthly fee) for doing precisely nothing and who have poor contacts and low standards. There are of course some very good agencies with proactive employees who will work on your behalf but unless you have one of them, you're better off without one.

[Devilishpyjamas]

We have found it fine without an agent. Ds2 has been paid more than enough for his age.

The agents we met (a small child/young person agency - with a very good reputation) were - Hmm not exactly friendly. They seemed mainly interested in commercials - presumably because they pay well - not sure ds2 would get much from an 8 hour round trip for a commercial audition.

They also told us ds2 would not get cast in anything without an agent - which is blatent bollocks. Shortly after that he managed to get himself cast in a cartoon which was produced from New York (the agent would have liked a cut of that I'm sure) & then a feature which was produced by a well known Hollywood producer, as well as the theatre stuff.

That agency put me off I have to say. I didn't like them. And they're one with a good reputation. Having said that a friend's son has been on the books of a large agent that represents a lot of well known adults as well as kids and they seem excellent - very high quality auditions, good work, & flexible but I imagine they're hard to get into (haven't tried because we decided against an agent).

From a parent point of view I am pleased we decided against an agent - the main reason we'd want one would be for more opportunities - but he's had plenty anyway - we reached a stage where any more wouid have been too much alongside school & extra curricular. I certainly didn't need the expectation of going to an audition at short notice at this stage in his life. And tbh I think I would have felt very uncomfortable arguing with the producers about his rate of pay. He's not a big star that's going to put bums on seats; he's a kid learning an incredible amount from the experience, and paid extremely well for his age (& fed & housed & driven & flown at times as well).

[danceteacheruk]

JaneAustinAllegro, I wasn't suggesting that injury claims are the only reason to sign with an agent, I was just giving one example. Having said that, it does normally fall to the agent to provide legal support in those cases, as more often than not, the dispute is with the production company. Why would a producer provide legal support to someone who is suing them?

And yes we dealt with theatrical lawyers, but they all had personal injury specialists on staff, as it's one of their biggest areas of business. Your average average no-win, no-fee law firm won't touch a client from the theatre industry, because they know it will probably be difficult to win. That's how NWNF lawyers work, they don't take on a client if they think they're going to lose.

I understand your point completely Devilishpyjamas, if you were happy to take the opportunities, pay and contracts offered, that's great. I'm just sounding a note of caution... that when things go wrong, you can end up on your own, fighting against people who have the best lawyers money can buy.

[Devilishpyjamas]

I can't imagine negotiating a ten year olds pay! Especially when they're paid an hourly rate higher than me!

I'm married to a lawyer, but can't imagine what could go so wrong with an average child's contract that an agent would be needed. I can see the point for star child actors (but then they'd be with the sort of agency I mentioned earlier & would have all the spin offs/merchandise etc to negotiate). For the average child playing in a theatre role or low budget movie their working conditions are (rightly) so heavily regulated that they're pretty safe. If you didn't like pay & terms you wouldn't accept surely? I have found theatre production companies to be very aware of the regulations & to adhere to them very strictly. They're very good.

I did tell mr Hollywood producer that his suggestion would mean ds2 wouldn't get the time off school that he needed & so he agreed to do it my way. If he hadn't ds2 wouldn't have played the role.

[JaneAustinAllegro]

No theatrical lawyer I've ever dealt with (& I deal regularly with the best in London, NY & LA) has been the type of firm to have a PI practice under the same roof! the worlds of media law and ambulance chasing are pretty far apart
Producers don't provide support if someone is injured in the production, but they are lavishly insured (usual minimum level of cover is $10m)


The things that I've found most interesting to negotiate on minors' agreements are not the rates of pay, but publicity / how they can be presented to the public / tutors / paying for extensive dental work / living arrangements with chaperones. IN fact best negotiator I had was a father who went into great specific detail over our ability (or rather absolute INability) to sexualise his teenage daughter - what she could be dressed in / what the press shots could look like. Smart guy (no agent).

[Devilishpyjamas]

Ah yes - he sounds a smart dad. In ds2's case - when he was working abroad, I was most concerned about his travel arrangements. Luckily we knew his chaperone very well from previous shows & I was confident he was in good hands.

Travel & schedule were definitely more important to me than pay.