To be suprised mn topics aren't abundant about the mo brexit decusuin

(40 Posts)
Moomoomango Fri 04-Nov-16 05:32:14

This isn't about whether you are pro remain or brexit I understand that thread has been done to death.

BUT are we really going to lay back and allow ourselves to live in an undemocratic society because this time it's the result we might potentially want?

How on earth is it democratic that some of us receive one vote on our country's future and others two?

What does this open the gates to in the future? People in power grabbing more and more power. We are being walked all over and it's ok?

This isn't about brexit or remain - I was pretty neutral to be honest but did vote one way in the end. I wasn't particularly bothered if it went the other way. This is about changing the definition of democracy!

onemorecupofcoffeefortheroad Fri 04-Nov-16 05:50:55

The referendum was about public opinion not about changing the law. I've been saying that all along - it was a glorified opinion poll. The decision to trigger article 50 and therefore to actually leave the EU is a parliamentary one. Democracy is taking place because the MPs who vote on whether article 50 should be triggered are democratically elected by the voting public.

LineyReborn Fri 04-Nov-16 05:52:36

You might need to step away from the Daily Mail.

lasttimeround Fri 04-Nov-16 05:57:56

In a democracy the courts make rulings to determine the law. The one they gave now clarified a legal point on parliamentary sovereignty in relation to perogative in terms of article 50.
Thus is part of our democracy and of our constitution.
What really alarms me about this is how sections of the media have covered this ruling and how they've characterised 3 judges who are doing their job.

HallowedMimic Fri 04-Nov-16 05:58:58

This decision by the courts is democracy at work. It ensures that the people running the country abide by the law.

Were you under the impression that the referendum was anything more than a poll of public opinion?

VintagePerfumista Fri 04-Nov-16 06:04:14

Yeah, after you've done as Liney suggests, you might want to look up the meaning of referendum.

If you can't be arsed, it means opinion poll.

When you've stopped chortling, (which is, I imagine, what many Bremainers are doing) then you can look up the instances of governments holding them, and saying (behind closed doors) "sheesh, but this lot really aren't capable of making sensible decisions, thank feckery it's only parliament that can actually go ahead and turn the result of an opinion poll into a law thingy"

After that, if you're still confused, ponder on the fact that parliament (remember, only entity that can turn an opinion poll into a legal action) has been elected, y'know, in an election (democratic process, whereby people get off their arses, switch Jezzer off and go to the polling station) by the public. Who vote. In a democratic kind of way.

You're welcome.

PS It is a bit more complex than that, but I know Brexiters need liddle words.

LineyReborn Fri 04-Nov-16 06:16:38

I think the way the Daily Mail is operating today is the biggest affront to British parliamentary democracy and its long-treasured legal checks and balances that I've seen for a very long time, lasttimeround.

funnyandwittyusername Fri 04-Nov-16 06:24:03

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AmeliaJack Fri 04-Nov-16 06:24:19

By some people getting two votes I assume you mean the MPs. The people we all voted for to represent our views?

They aren't grabbing more power - they already have it.

Exiting Europe is a really, really big complex thing. It needs lots and lots of discussion.

Have a quick google about how other countries deal with referenda - questions are regularly put to the vote more than once.

funnyandwittyusername Fri 04-Nov-16 06:28:42

You're right hallowed. How can anyone have assumed it was just a poll of public opinion! It's not like we were told it was binding eh?

BabyJakeHatersClub Fri 04-Nov-16 06:30:17

but I know Brexiters need liddle words

hmm

If attitudes like yours hadn't been so prevalent in the run up to the election, there may not have been a situation where "The people are the ones Parliament represents - 17.4m of them, the biggest mandate in history, voted for us to leave the European Union." It's the mind boggling arrogance and bigotry of Remainers which led to this situation.

LineyReborn Fri 04-Nov-16 06:30:51

Looks like the Government lied about what its powers were.

VintagePerfumista Fri 04-Nov-16 06:31:43

In your haste to c & p the first hit from google, you missed the bit about "a vote where the public is asked to give their opinion", "not legally binding," and "consultative only" (Cambridge English Dictionary)

Or, opinion poll. wink

LineyReborn Fri 04-Nov-16 06:31:55

The whole thing is a fucking shambles.

VintagePerfumista Fri 04-Nov-16 06:33:56

Who'd have thought it Liney? grin

I actually find myself in the weird position of feeling a bit sorry for Tezza and Bozza.

It's all going to get a lot more interesting at Tory HQ, that's for sure.

Antifrank Fri 04-Nov-16 06:35:18

YABU

Firstly there is an entire area on Mumsnet dedicated to Brexit

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_

So it is somewhat churlish to complain that there is a lack of discussion on this

Secondly, the court ascertained that parliament is sovereign. I seem to remember that was part of the Brexit argument.

funnyandwittyusername Fri 04-Nov-16 06:35:46

In your haste to continue your smugness you missed where I wrote Oxford dictionary. Your Cambridge definition still doesn't define it as an opinion poll

chocolatestrawberries Fri 04-Nov-16 06:43:10

I'm still loving the fact that a teeny majority went of exit and suddenly WE ALL want it. Lets take a look at what's happening to our country and our economy since the government decided that they had been 'given a clear mandate', which they haven't.

The system of parliamentary democracy, with its many faults, does at least contain a series of checks and balances. In case I'm not clear, this means parliamentary debates.

The court case was about reminding Mrs May et al that they had to allow debate rather than just secretly steaming ahead without any reference to this.

There is a good chance that we will still exit the EU, but at least the government have been told that they need to let people know what the hell is happening. Which in turn may lead to exit people saying 'look our economy is fine'. Great. But no company can run effectively on the sand that has been offered to them as a base.

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe Fri 04-Nov-16 06:48:16

The judges upheld the law and the sovereignty of the elected parliament.

It doesn't get more democracy then this.

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe Fri 04-Nov-16 06:50:08

Blimey, just had a look at the Mail.

Bloody hell, the frothing!

RockyTop Fri 04-Nov-16 06:51:40

" are we really going to lay back and allow ourselves to live in an undemocratic society"

Parliament being responsible for this decision is democracy in action. The UK is a representative democracy, that is what the court has upheld.

I thought part of the case for Brexit was British laws being ruled and upheld by British judges, and British Parliament retaining sovereignty - so what's the issue?

BoneyBackJefferson Fri 04-Nov-16 07:04:38

VintagePerfumista

PS It is a bit more complex than that, but I know Brexiters need liddle words.

Condescending, belittling and a shitty attitude. But then I expect this from small minded people.

and FYI, I agree with the judges ruling.

PigletWasPoohsFriend Fri 04-Nov-16 07:09:35

PS It is a bit more complex than that, but I know Brexiters need liddle words.

Are you 5? Snide remarks help no one.

I agree with the judges ruling

MumOnTheRunCatchingUp Fri 04-Nov-16 07:11:06

vintage you are coming across as an arse!
In order to avoid that maybe Leave the subject alone? Take on something a bit more on your level? there looks to be people here who know a whole lot more than you! And in detail

Dozer Fri 04-Nov-16 07:16:40

The judges just look at the law.

The Government simply doesn't have legal power to do this without approval from Parliament.

I doubt the Supreme Court will say otherwise.

The fault is entirely with Government for seeking to act with no legal right to do so.

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