Does anyone else sense a change of mood re Brexit?

(650 Posts)
twofingerstoGideon Wed 19-Oct-16 16:23:04

I was rather astounded following the referendum that politicians of all shades weren't making noises about Brexit needing parliamentary scrutiny etc., but at last - after almost four months - it's as if people are waking up, noticing the shambles and saying "Hang on a minute... I'm not sure we should be doing this..." It was shocking to see the lack of reaction to the xenophobia and the way politicians of all shades seemed to be saying we had to blindly obey the very slim majority. The lack of disgust expressed by the press/politicians about the barefaced lies used by the Leave campaign (not to mention that poster) was also mind-blowing.

Has anyone else noticed a change in the air? I'm starting to feel slightly hopeful for the first time since 24th June that the country isn't just going to jump off a cliff in order to follow 'the will of the people'.

Anyone else, or am I deluded?

PigletWasPoohsFriend Wed 19-Oct-16 16:26:13

I don't think there are many or any MPs saying Brexit won't happen.

Even Tim Farron today said the vote had to be respected.

OhNoNotMyBaby Wed 19-Oct-16 16:28:13

Yawn... 'The will of the people' is the prevailing will. Whether you like it or not. It's also known as democracy.

albertcampionscat Wed 19-Oct-16 16:30:37

But why should 'the will of the people' as expressed on one day in June have sacred value? As true risks/horrors of Brexit become apparent it's likely to become less and less popular - so why should it be forced through?

EleanorRigby123 Wed 19-Oct-16 16:38:54

We have to leave the EU.

How we try to leave the EU should be for parliament to decide. We did not vote to throw representative parliamentary democracy out of the window and replace it by dictat by dubious incompetents ( Johnson, Fox and Davies) who cannot even agree among themselves on what they want. Even hardline Brexiteers agree to this.

But we cannot dictate the terms of the divorce even if we can agree on what we want. There are 28 other countries and the European Parliament in the mix and what we want and what we get will be two different things.

We cannot be members of the single market and impose controls on immigration from Europe.
Given that May has prioritised immigration control we will have to leave the single market.
So a "hard Brexit" looks inevitable. The train has left the station and we cannot control where it will go.

David Cameron is the man responsible for this. He gambled the future of the UK in the interests of the Conservative Party. And he lost. His millions will cushion him. Others will reap the consequences.

twofingerstoGideon Wed 19-Oct-16 16:49:14

I don't think there are many or any MPs saying Brexit won't happen.
That's not what I've said.

PamDooveOrangeJoof Wed 19-Oct-16 16:51:21

Two fingers I was thinking the exact same actually. Even the daily mail seems to be reporting the negatives more and more which has shocked me!

twofingerstoGideon Wed 19-Oct-16 16:53:44

Yawn... 'The will of the people' is the prevailing will. Whether you like it or not. It's also known as democracy.

Yawn? And yet you post.
The will of the people, however, is not clear and people are finally waking up to this and talking about it. Was 'the will of the people' to see a hard Brexit, soft Brexit, freedom of movement, no immigration, better control of immigration? Nobody knows.

I'm optimistic now that this looks likely to be put to parliament and that we won't blindly follow May's 'interpretation' of the referendum (hard Brexit, more Xenophobia etc)

twofingerstoGideon Wed 19-Oct-16 16:57:14

So a "hard Brexit" looks inevitable. The train has left the station and we cannot control where it will go.
I don't agree that hard Brexit looks inevitable. I think the mood is changing and the more people speak out against hard Brexit, the more other people will be encouraged to speak.

MPs from all parties are against May's brand of Brexit which is, after all, only her interpretation.

twofingerstoGideon Wed 19-Oct-16 16:58:20

Two fingers I was thinking the exact same actually. Even the daily mail seems to be reporting the negatives more and more which has shocked me!

Yes. There has been a notable change in reporting over the past few days/week I think.

twofingerstoGideon Wed 19-Oct-16 17:04:52

Just tweeted by Alan Sugar:
Brexit is a disaster. voted for on a pack of lies

I know he's never been in favour of Brexit, but seems to me that people are being a little more outspoken!

twofingerstoGideon Wed 19-Oct-16 17:09:11

albert But why should 'the will of the people' as expressed on one day in June have sacred value?
Quite.

time4chocolate Wed 19-Oct-16 17:10:49

We have to leave the EU, the consequences socially to not go through with it would be a ticking bomb ready to go off. As a UK born citizen I would not want to be living in this country if it wasn't triggered nevermind as an EU/non EU citizen living here. Apologies, I have linked to a daily mail article but it is written by someone who was vocal that we remained. I think be careful what you wish for www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3839883/DAN-HODGES-want-revolution-spark-it.html

ImperialBlether Wed 19-Oct-16 17:14:07

Oh you know half the bloody Brexit voters think it's happened anyway! If nobody mentioned it again they wouldn't even notice.

We were told lie upon lie before that referendum. That is totally undemocratic.

PamDooveOrangeJoof Wed 19-Oct-16 17:18:09

We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Repercussions of stopping brexit against the repercussions of going through with it will be disastrous either socially or economically.
Thanks a fucking bunch david Cameron you have royally fucked us.
All for political point scoring .

I'm just thinking of the hundreds and thousands of pounds going on all these negotiations too. And all he money spent on the referendum.
To find out we won't be better off immigration wise.
Have maybe fucked over any British people living abroad
To fuck up pensions and make cost of living shoot yo for those that could ill afford it anyway and potentially pay billions to get out.
What a waste of everyone's time and money.
The whole thing is a bloody shit show and as usual the worst affected will be the poorest

PamDooveOrangeJoof Wed 19-Oct-16 17:20:56

Imperial totally agree! 'We've left and nothing's happened it's all amazing I'm so excited'

I have no idea what planet these people are living on but it's obviously not planet earth.

Not one good thing has come out of it and even the daily mail are struggling to find anything

PigletWasPoohsFriend Wed 19-Oct-16 17:21:55

^Just tweeted by Alan Sugar:
Brexit is a disaster. voted for on a pack of lies^

I know he's never been in favour of Brexit, but seems to me that people are being a little more outspoken!

Actually Sugar has been very outspoken about it from day one tbf.

ImperialBlether Wed 19-Oct-16 17:24:50

Though how anyone believed that a government that wanted to privatise the NHS would give every last penny of the money saved from being in Europe to the NHS is beyond me.

annandale Wed 19-Oct-16 17:28:02

No, I think the opposite, that it seems more likely to happen, and in the worst way possible.

I liked the article that said, stop calling it hard Brexit as it sounds too good, start calling it chaotic Brexit or collapse Brexit or Fuxit or something instead.

Mishaps Wed 19-Oct-16 17:29:08

Cameron should never have held a referendum on something about which so few people were fully versed and able to make a decision.

However, he did, and the decision has been made.

There would be a total riot if the government ignored the result of a democratic vote. There is no longer a choice.

WineCheeseSleep Wed 19-Oct-16 17:29:19

Agree Imperial!

Also agree with OP that more reservation is being expressed and serious discussion going on, even in publications that supported Brexit originally. I think the only way Brexit could not happen is with a second referendum giving people more factual options once we know more about them - if we just didn't do it people would feel totally disenfranchised and that could be dangerous.

FarAwayHills Wed 19-Oct-16 17:35:20

I think it the supermarkets v Unilever episode that has made a lot of people wake upgrin
The reality of price rises or the lack of availability of marmite really has really had more impact than any talk of interest rates or stock markets or falling. I haven't seen people look so concerned about anything since the referendum because many people voted leave firmly believing that this would not impact their life much at all.

SleepFreeZone Wed 19-Oct-16 17:35:32

It's happening and we will get through it eventually. Hard times ahead.

twofingerstoGideon Wed 19-Oct-16 17:47:18

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting in my OP that 'it wouldn't happen', although I'm still not 100% convinced that we, as a country, will stupidly risk our economy to that extent, but I'm heartened that we seem to have moved on from the 'no debate about it' stance that seemed prevalent in July/Aug/Sept.

I think all this 'there will be riots' stuff is hyperbole. A sizeable proportion of people probably walked away from the polling station and haven't given it a second thought since, some were 'protesting' about non-EU related stuff, some may regret their vote now they've seen the pound tanking, some will be feeling angry about the NHS big whopper, but most will simply not be the rioting type. The 48% haven't rioted. Are we saying that leave voters are more prone to hysteria and rioting?

jaws5 Wed 19-Oct-16 17:47:22

sleepzone what's happening exactly? If you know could you perhaps let the PM and Cabinet know what shape it has?

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