If this isn't what you voted for stand up and be counted!

(233 Posts)
WidowWadman Sun 09-Oct-16 13:08:54

So all those Brexiteers and Lexiters who didn't vote on the basis of immigration controls, where are you? Will there be marches against May's interpretation of your vote?

You know, I actually believe that plenty of people didn't realise what their vote was going to unleash despite being warned -- frequently-- and emphatically. It's not too late to speak out and stand up against it. If you didn't mean it, don't hide behind that you haven't meant it. Do something about it.

Pro-tip: declaring xenophobic things to be not xenophobic, actually is not speaking out against it or distancing yourself from it. Declaring hurt at being lumped in with the xenophobes without outright condemnation of their rhetoric doesn't count as standing up to it. Much the opposite.

jaws5 Sun 09-Oct-16 13:45:54

I agree widow but unfortunately I don't think it's going to happen. There are other threads on AIBU and CHAT very different in tone to those here - we are the "metropolitan elite" here, educated, cosmopolitan, many of us EU citizens, etc. The tone of those threads from what I've seen, is certain exasperation with the liberals. One thread shows impatience with comparisons to the 30s, and claims of xenophobia which apparently are unjustified. Many leave voters want to let TM "get on with it", and don't forget that while there has been world wide condemnation of the "foreigners lists", surveys show the idea to be hugely popular with the British public. Sad and scary.

Bearbehind Sun 09-Oct-16 14:10:49

I agree with jaws unfortunately widow

Much as I'd love to see this thread fill up with replies from those that are concerned about the fact this isn't going in the direction they want, it isn't going to happen.

For me Leave seem to fall into 3 camps now

- happy with anything as long as we are out of the EU
- don't understand/ know/ care
- won't admit their concerns

I get that people feel they'd get shouted down but to me, we're way beyond 'I told you so' - it would just be refreshing to be able to discuss how this is turning out from the perspective of people who don't think this is what they sign up to- sadly it won't happen

WidowWadman Sun 09-Oct-16 14:39:19

Yeah, I guess you're right. Depressing. Not surprising though.

Tryingtosaveup Sun 09-Oct-16 23:05:30

I will stand up and say that this IS what I voted for. Yes, a hard Brexit. I support what TM is saying.

jaws5 Sun 09-Oct-16 23:12:30

That's lovely * trying* I guess you adore the way she tried to scare foreigners into packing their bags too. Admirable!

WidowWadman Mon 10-Oct-16 07:02:55

The lack of leave voters who didn't vote for this is telling. Maybe they actually did.

ivegotdreadfulpmttoday Mon 10-Oct-16 07:08:56

jaws5 Please could you reference the surveys showing public support for the possible requirement of companies to detail their employment ratios.

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt Mon 10-Oct-16 07:13:39

There are a number of Leave posters on MN who deny that this is happening, though. Apparently everyone who is concerned about xenophobia or who has been racially abused in the last couple of months is hysterical, paranoid or outright lying. You start to see how the Nazis got where they did and why holocaust denial exists.

IamWendy Mon 10-Oct-16 07:14:01

What a patronising thread. Oh look, here are the remoaners here to help us poor misguided leave voters to see the errors of our ways.

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt Mon 10-Oct-16 07:15:23

Ivegot - it's a Yougov poll

yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/06/public-backs-plans-make-companies-say-how-many-for/

ivegotdreadfulpmttoday Mon 10-Oct-16 07:16:42

I expect stories of companies refusing to hire British people would be dismissed as a tiny minority or anecdotal rubbish or a simple case of the British lack of skills. In reality there are companies and workplaces that only want foreign labour and sometimes only from certain countries because the employers know they can abuse these workers. In low paid, low skilled work this happens and not accepting that does mean your life, fortunately for you, is removed from that. The lists are a really bad idea in my view but I do understand why they have been proposed.

ivegotdreadfulpmttoday Mon 10-Oct-16 07:25:48

X posted with your reference. Thanks for that

Fortnum Mon 10-Oct-16 07:28:56

Liberals: when in doubt throw xenophobia about.

Yawn.

Kendrasienna Mon 10-Oct-16 07:35:13

I agree with Wendy
Patronising Remoaners
Yawn

TrojanWhore Mon 10-Oct-16 07:35:41

I think posters on a number of threads are educated and elite - MN has an unusually high proportion users educated to at least degree level.

The unavoidable implication 'if you're not like us you must be a bit thick' (that follows the assertion that 'we're the educated ones') creates an unfortunate impressions. I hope that it's something that was inadvertent when typing, and that such a staggering level of condescension was expressed only by accident.

And no, you can't tell people how they should behave in a particular set of circumstances, or expect them to do what you think is right.

surferjet Mon 10-Oct-16 07:39:20

Oh look, another patronising load of shite from remainers.

💤

WrongTrouser Mon 10-Oct-16 09:08:09

widow I've read your definition of xenophobic on another thread which is essentially disagreeing with the current EU/UK policy on immigration.

I don't think most people would agree with that definition.

I welcome the fact that on this forum I can discuss Brexit and the miriad issues arising from it with people who I agree with, people I disagree with and people who I disagree with on the EU but might agree with on some other things (gasp).

Your OP is not phrased in such a way as to suggest you are interested in a meaningful discussion with leave voters. I may be wrong.

MyDarlingWhatIfYouFly Mon 10-Oct-16 09:15:35

Can someone please tell me what an "elite" actually is? I have a PhD from Cambridge and I grew up in a council estate. Where do I fit in this meaningless classification system. The idea that every educated, liberal person in the country must be some sort of privileged, metropolitan francophone is utter bollocks. Maybe I voted remain because I understand the devastating consequences of leave for the ex-mining town where I grew up, rather than worrying about my "city friends" losing their visa-free travel hmm

WrongTrouser Mon 10-Oct-16 10:14:15

The stereotyping of both remain and leave voters going on (in general, I am not referring to this thread) is incredibly unhelpful and does not stand up to even the most cursory look at the studies into who voted which way. Whilst there is a correlation between earning, education and class, it does tend to be massively overstated. For example (Ashcroft) 43% of ABs voted leave as did 43% of graduates and 36% of people with higher degrees.

I think there is a danger of conflating the fact that leave voters voted against what might be called the establishment view (yes, yes, N Farage, BJ, but I mean broadly speaking what they were told by most mps, public organisations, businesses etc) with the views of leave voters about remain voters and wrongly extrapolating that all leave voters see remain voters as some sort of privileged elite, which I really don't think the vast majority do.

I know that this is not a problem only caused by remain voters, I have read plenty of leave voters stereotyping remain voters as worrying about Jocasta's year at uni in Europe. It is really unhelpful when anyone does it and I really think we need to move past it.

WrongTrouser Mon 10-Oct-16 10:16:24

at uni in Europe on MN

smallfox2002 Mon 10-Oct-16 13:17:59

Prior to the vote lots of people said, and very many on here posted, that the leave vote wasn't about immigration but about democracy and sovereignty.

They were quite vociferous.

Now it appears that brexit and the changes to legislation are going to be forced through using undemocratic means and that it is all about immigration these people are very quiet and not as vocal in their challenge.

Their silence on both points proves that it really was all about immigration, their reasons for justification are almost all easy to dismiss or at least dispute well.

Also their claims that we should all shut up are utterly ridiculous seeing as the leave camp shouted about the EU and wanting to leave for 41 years, and even got their own political party (some would say 2).

smallfox2002 Mon 10-Oct-16 13:18:57

Prior to the vote lots of people said, and very many on here posted, that the leave vote wasn't about immigration but about democracy and sovereignty.

They were quite vociferous.

Now it appears that brexit and the changes to legislation are going to be forced through using undemocratic means and that it is all about immigration these people are very quiet and not as vocal in their challenge.

Their silence on both points proves that it really was all about immigration, their reasons for justification are almost all easy to dismiss or at least dispute well.

Also their claims that we should all shut up are utterly ridiculous seeing as the leave camp shouted about the EU and wanting to leave for 41 years, and even got their own political party (some would say 2).

TrojanWhore Mon 10-Oct-16 13:25:44

"Their silence on both points proves that it really was all about immigration, their reasons for justification are almost all easy to dismiss or at least dispute well. "

Doesn't prove a damned thing.

Except perhaps that people are tired of repeated efforts to stereotype them and are engaging less and less with yet more threads.

smallfox2002 Mon 10-Oct-16 13:27:56

Well speak up against it then! Where are the leavers complaining that Brexit is not going to be debated by parliament?

Where are the ones complaining about the suggested policies on immigration?

They were VERY vocal prior to the vote, in fact these boards were dominated by leave voters back then, where are they all now?

Where are the ones who said it wasn't about immigration?

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