If the much privileged access to the single market must come with free movement of labour then what the fuck was it all about then?

(34 Posts)
AdrenalineFudge Thu 30-Jun-16 11:06:30

As in effect we've basically just decided to keep the status quo but with no seat at the table. Merkel and other EU leaders have said that access to the single market - essentially an EEA - deal would still require the UK to allow free movement.
If free movement was the backbone of the Leave campaign then we've effectively shot ourselves in the foot then we won't even be allowed a place at the negotiating table yet must abide by EU law in order to trade with the bloc.
What a mess!

AdrenalineFudge Thu 30-Jun-16 11:08:46

Link:

"European Union leaders have warned that the UK must honour the principle of free movement of people if it wants to retain access to the single market after it leaves the bloc."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36659900

Ondasp Thu 30-Jun-16 11:18:08

Wondering the same hmm

I have a close friend who works in Brussels for the EU and she told me that there is NO WAY that access to single market could be granted without free movement if people. She also told me that no one is taking Boris seriously there. The general consensus in the EU corridors is that the UK put itself in a very weak position and that Boris' cocky attitude will only worsen the (already tragic) situation.

JandOsmummy Thu 30-Jun-16 11:24:25

Really?? Apart from this topic being done to death on mn you really didn't know this before you voted??

It was only raised in every debate on brexit, in every brexit related article and every statement from Brussels on the matter...

I'll stop facepalming long enough to say that if you would have voted differently now the penny has dropped make sure to write to your mp.

I will ask though how did you feel qualified to vote if you missed this key point?!?

AdrenalineFudge Thu 30-Jun-16 11:25:24

It'd be hilarious if it weren't so serious. To add to that the Leave camp had no plan whatsoever. And when (not if) tariffs are imposed then we'll be further up a shit creek.

The UK imo had it pretty good initially wrt not being part of Schengen and not having the Euro as currency. I admit that the EU is in dire need of reform but like another poster said on another thread - we've basically been persuaded to jump off a cliff and have learned that we won't be granted a parachute.

minipie Thu 30-Jun-16 11:29:43

in effect we've basically just decided to keep the status quo but with no seat at the table

Yep. And that's the best case scenario.

Boris has been writing cheques his body can't cash (to paraphrase Top Gun)

AdrenalineFudge Thu 30-Jun-16 11:31:14

JandOsmummy So you know how I voted?

I will ask though how did you feel qualified to vote if you missed this key point?!?

Right then so you also know whether or not I missed the point initially? And I must have missed the memo asking me whether or not I was 'qualified' to vote - what's that about, did I have to also register for an intelligence test? Were you the invigilator?

You've spectacularly missed the point of my thread and at that my opinion also - of which you claim to know more about than even I do.

If it's been done to death then I presume you've no need to comment on this thread and continue being smug about something you probably know fuck all about.

AdrenalineFudge Thu 30-Jun-16 11:36:49

And to add to that Jand - in the discussions prior to the vote it was all speculation, we didn't know how we'd end up voting and we didn't know that the Leave camp had no idea what they'd do (in this event).

In fact I'm very surprised at after all the 'we're leaving bravado' no-one including the most staunch leavers want to invoke article 50. So yes, it is still a very relevant point of discussion. Many Leavers didn't consider these sort of consequences. I'm glad you have the ability to not only know everything before it has even happened but even the positions of those you've never met. With that sort of skill perhaps you should call Cameron and offer him a solution?

Kennington Thu 30-Jun-16 11:42:04

I do wonder if we will just have to negotiate with each country in the end.
I don't see how, after the vote the uk can have access to the EU market as a single market.
We will have to do deals with France, Germany seperately.
free movement is so emotive I don't see how either side will back down. It will be a pain in the arse!

WaitroseTrolley Thu 30-Jun-16 11:44:36

ondasp that's v reassuring, not. What the fuck must they all think of us?

Ondasp Thu 30-Jun-16 11:59:48

waitrose yes I think most EU politicians must be at their wits' end with the UK to right now.

Mistigri Thu 30-Jun-16 12:12:51

I do wonder if we will just have to negotiate with each country in the end

We can't negotiate with EU countries separately. They would have to leave the EU first. And even if you agree with the catastrophists who see more countries voting to leave followed by the end of the EU, this is still several years away. In the mean time, the UK has to trade with Europe.

As today's events have proven this was nothing more or less than a proxy war over the future of the Tory party. The leavers may have won a battle, but it may be that a remainer, May, has won the war.

ManonLescaut Thu 30-Jun-16 12:39:10

but it may be that a remainer, May, has won the war

May is enacting Brexit though so it makes no odds. And she's appointing a Eurosceptic MP to oversee the new Brexit department.

PeaceOfWildThings Thu 30-Jun-16 12:48:15

If we leave the EU, but keep free movement of labour and stay in the free market, we lose many laws related to human rights, working conditions, customer protection. London stops being the European financial centre, and that laurel immediately goes to Frankfurt. Many other big businesses and big employers will also leave Britain.
We don't get to join the EU passport queues and will be in the 'rest of the world' queue.
What else?

ManonLescaut Thu 30-Jun-16 12:49:13

Can I also add to the OP, that on the Norway EEA model you get the free movement with the single market, and EU rules have to be implented as national law. As you say, business has to follow EU regulations but we have no ability to influence them.

Futhermore Norway pays €100 per capita for the EU grant while the UK €180 - for full membership.

Norway did warn everyone it was a bum deal, but it few seemed to have listened.

Mistigri Thu 30-Jun-16 13:25:39

May is enacting Brexit though so it makes no odds. And she's appointing a Eurosceptic MP to oversee the new Brexit department.

She's just kicked A50 to the end of the year, at which point it will be kicked out to the end of the first quarter pending stress tests and evidence, at which point ...

Remember the British Bill of Rights?

Mistigri Thu 30-Jun-16 13:27:42

In any case, Norway is a bum deal, but it's a workable bum deal. At least Theresa has a plan.

I don't like her - I agree with almost nothing that she stands for - but at this point, who else is going to do the essential government work of delaying A50 while pretending that you're serious about brexit?

Numberoneisgone Thu 30-Jun-16 13:30:35

Well the forerunners to the PM role Gove and May have said they are going to stand tough on immigration so I don't think full access to the common market will be on the cards. There will be a new model for Britain. Reduced immigration and reduced access to common market.

MaidOfStars Thu 30-Jun-16 13:32:36

So you know how I voted?
No, but I am guessing that Remainers here wouldn't write:
If the much privileged access to the single market must come with free movement of labour then what the fuck was it all about then?
But as I say, just a guess.

who else is going to do the essential government work of delaying A50 while pretending that you're serious about brexit?
Agree. Gove will push the button. May might not.

ManonLescaut Thu 30-Jun-16 13:38:22

I think all the trade models are bum deals compared to what we have now but Norway's probably the sanest one. I don't oppose it, I just want people to be aware of what it entails. Leavers don't seem to have any understanding that all we'll end up with is a slightly shitter version of what we have now...

TheElementsSong Thu 30-Jun-16 13:45:10

Relax everyone! This <insert any event, including rain of frogs> was expected by Leave voters from the start! grin

I'm honestly agog to see what (apart from the emboldened far right, now wasn't that an unexpected development hmm) would actually cause a Brexiter to exclaim, "Golly, what a surprise!"

<Copies and pastes to every EURef thread>

ManonLescaut Thu 30-Jun-16 13:53:04

A50 was always going to be at the end of the year realistically...

Reading the constitutional arguments as to whether A50 has to be voted by Parliament - on which opinion seems divided - what will happen next is unclear. (Apart from a lot of arguing). At this point I don't think it's impossible that it would get through Parliament.

I wish I shared your optimism.

AdrenalineFudge Thu 30-Jun-16 14:23:00

MaidOfStars You generally come across as a levelheaded sort on other threads so why would you assume that. I've already said how I voted and this thread isn't my shock 'WTF' response. It's a genuine question to the leavers who I'd like to know if they understand the consequences of their decision.

That said, I'm not going to beat anyone with a stick about it - I'm very much of the opinion that we must now gather stock and work it out. I even think despite the fact that we're in deep shit - we can come out with something. I don't know exactly what that is or how it would happen but we are where we are. All those hoping to for a renege decision are woefully misguided and all those wanting blood from the leavers are too.

MaidOfStars Thu 30-Jun-16 14:27:48

MaidOfStars You generally come across as a levelheaded sort on other threads so why would you assume that
Apologies if I misread the tone of your OP (and ignored any other stuff). Level-headed is not really descriptive of me right now smile

Mistigri Thu 30-Jun-16 14:30:45

manon I'm not especially optimistic. I think that much damage has been done already, notably to the City, and to inward investment.

However I can't see a way out of this that doesn't result in more or less the status quo - single market access, free movement with maybe a few scraps thrown by the EU to the xenophobes on both sides of the channel.

What May will do is make non-EU immigration even harder, in a brutal no-holds-barred attempt to get the immigration figures down. She will be helped by a natural post-referendum fall in EU immigration as the UK slips into recession and unemployment rises.

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