Are we all in this together?

(21 Posts)
Cjamm Thu 30-Jun-16 02:13:43

When we do inevitably/super super likely go through a 'mild' recession as Nigel Farage described it.

Are we all going through this together?

Do we want spending cuts or tax rises? I know it's likely to be both but only pick one!

I voted remain, so I'm afraid I don't feel like we're all in this together, I'd rather the Goverment cuts as much as it can, only exception should be education, I've sadly accepted that the end of the NHS is coming.

And is Westminister going to try & take care of the entire U.K. Or just London & Scotland to an extent so that Scotland don't leave the union.

Letmehaveausername Thu 30-Jun-16 02:30:08

The government is in pieces and not in a position to take care of anyone, not even London, right now.

Cjamm Thu 30-Jun-16 02:33:20

Letme, I mean when they hopefully sort themselves out & get back to their jobs.

Millionprammiles Thu 30-Jun-16 09:07:44

We've never been less in it together.

I've always believed in a strong welfare state to support those in need (despite never being in need). Robust public services (despite rarely needing them). Proportionate taxation on wealth and corporations (even though that means I pay more tax).

But I'm really struggling to fight the urge to wash my hands of it all and support independance for London instead (which we all know will be more resilient to the recession than elsewhere).

Where will the cuts hit hardest? Where will unemployment be highest? The very areas who voted to Leave.
Nigel (in his infinite wisdom) tells us this would have happened anyway.
Yes Nigel, the chaos that the economy is currently in 'would have happened anyway' confused.
Oh and well done for giving Osborne the perfect excuse to impose cuts which his desperation to be prime minister might have otherwise tempered.

Never has there been such an ignorant act of self sabotage by (52% of) an electorate. I think the phrase is 'reap what you sow'.

OohMavis Thu 30-Jun-16 09:28:04

We're above the breadline but not by much. Cuts are going to affect us badly. We voted remain.

I feel desperately let down by those around me who are in exactly the same boat who are still staunchly maintaining that everything will be ABSOLUTELY FINE.

It won't be fine. It will be shit. And I'm not going to sit there and be a sympathetic ear when they're worrying how they're going to pay their bills this month when the shit truly hits the fan, when they realise that it isn't as rosy as they were promised. I'm going to be too busy sorting my own shit out.

So nope, I'm not in it with anyone.

mrsm43s Thu 30-Jun-16 09:37:21

I'm not in it together. I voted remain, I don't want to pay for this debacle. I think the people who wanted this should bear the brunt of the costs of this. So that means spending cuts rather than across the board tax hikes. I'd really like a "baby boomer tax" where those born between 1946 and 1964 paid an additional 10% on top of the basic rate of tax to fund this. And I don't think the areas who voted out by more than the national majority should be compensated for the removal of their EU subsidies.

But I'm pissed off and bitter, and fed up with having everything I work so very hard for taken away from me, and I don't see why I should pay for this. You wanted it - you pay for it.

NewMinouMinou Thu 30-Jun-16 10:00:33

No.
We're out of here asap and will be relieving ourselves of our UK passports in similar haste.

Letmehaveausername Thu 30-Jun-16 10:01:08

mrsm you effectively want to tax pensioners, and those nearing pension age...? Fantastic idea! Let's target the aging!

emeraldlakes Thu 30-Jun-16 10:09:31

Well to be fair to the older generations mrsm43s , a higher number of remain votes came from that section of the population than the younger voters.

In answer to the OP, I would prefer to pay higher taxes than see more cuts in education, policing etc.

Cjamm Thu 30-Jun-16 10:11:36

I guess we're all on the same page, our own friends/families/colleagues/neighbours/countrymen have inflicted this on us, so there's really no room for sympathy.

I do feel terribly sorry for people in your position OohMavis & the working class who voted remain, they didn't ask for this but they'll certainly be hit the hardest. I work in a sector very dependent on EU funding, so my job is massively in danger, thankfully DH's job is as far away from EU bussiness as one can get so if the worst occurs, hopefully we can ride it out on his income alone, we'll have to make massive cuts but we'll just about manage to keep paying off our mortgage.

Raising tax would make me very resentful, although like Millionp, although I believe in investing in our health service & public transport, these aren't things I use & Osbourne's been desperate to make more cuts.

Mrsm43s, an extra tax on the baby boomer generation would be brilliant but unlikely & unfair on those in that generation who voted remain. They'll suffer along with the rest of us anyway & as they're a lot older it's unlikely a lot of them will financially bounce back after we hopefully get through it

CantSleepClownsWillEatMe Thu 30-Jun-16 10:14:06

I suspect many remainers are going to feel the same and probably for quite a long time. Austerity has been hard already on so many in the UK and further cuts etc will likely follow.

As has been pointed out over and over a huge number of those who voted leave will in fact be the worst hit. Sadly I think quite a lot of people will be short on sympathy. From the outside looking in (I'm in Ireland) the whole thing seems to have been bitterly divisive and that doesn't look set to change very quickly.

Oibeer Thu 30-Jun-16 10:18:33

"We're out of here asap and will be relieving ourselves of our UK passports in similar haste."
Could I ask why? We are desperately trying to obtain them. x

AuntDotsie Thu 30-Jun-16 10:25:44

No. At my most anxious and angry, I want to just go - along with swathes of Brits judging by the massive increase in interest in emigration - and just leave the Little Englanders to it.

Alex White, of the EIU, has tweeted their take on the whole thing here, interesting reading. I've also heard rumblings of a potential EEA- deal excluding passporting for financial institutions, leading to them all moving to Paris.

No-one's really talking about NI, but I foresee immense problems there if they have to reinstate a border, let alone all the uncertainty about the treaty.

Whatever happens, we'll be seeing unemployment, recession and cuts. And we all know how that tends to brings a society together hmm We as a family are lucky enough to still have options, but plenty aren't.

This has caused massive divides in the country. Some groups of leavers may well find themselves having voted for outright lies. Most remainers are horrified. If we're in it together, it's because we're stuck in it together.

mrsm43s Thu 30-Jun-16 10:30:55

I should point out that I'm fully admitting to being pissed off and bitter, and don't necessarily think that a baby boomer tax would necessarily be good for the country (and nor do I think it would be fair for the many BBs who voted remain.) I just want the people who voted for this to be the ones who pay for it. I want the ones who made the decision to accept the responsibility, and get us out of this mess.

But they won't. They'll come for just about keeping my head above water, middle class, voted for this not to happen me. They'll raise my taxes, so I can continue to subsidise those who bit the hand that fed them.

Yep, I'm definitely bitter. But I'll get over it, and end up being the bigger person eventually I'm sure.

NewMinouMinou Thu 30-Jun-16 10:40:05

Oibeer

We don't feel safe here and I worry for our children and their long-term safety.

We'd been making plans to go anyway, but Brexit just hit the fast forward button.

Passports? To cut all ties, mainly for the kids in the long term.

Greengager Thu 30-Jun-16 10:42:38

I don't think BB's should be taxed as a punishment, but they've benefited disproportionately from economic policies over the last few years (because they vote) and I'd like to see that balance redressed a little. I'd also like to see them have some incentives to downsize so family homes can be freed up for families. It's not worth their while atm.

But I don't feel like we are all in this together at all. I sort of agree with the biting the hand that fed them comment, but soon there will be nothing to feed and no nhs thanks to Brexit. I'm Middle class my situation is likely to get worse now, but we will probably be okay. It's people who voted for this because they felt things couldn't get worse who will loose the most

There is always futher to fall.

shutthefrontdoor123 Thu 30-Jun-16 10:43:16

We're leaving too. Having been an expat for the last 7 years, I brought our family back to the UK last summer so that my kids could feel they belong somewhere and have a better idea of what it is to be British. When you're away your patriotism goes sky high - I used to watch Wimbledon with a passion, stay up for general election results, support the English football team, wave the flag at royal wedding coverage, (all in a different time zone), and say to my kids - see this is Great Britain. This is where we belong. when we came back, I got over my rose-tintedness pretty quickly, but still tried to look at the bright side of being back. In the last week, I've realised that this isn't the country I recognise. I'm a second generation immigrant, but feel more British than anything else. And now I feel I've lost my sense of belonging. If the xenophobic, inward-looking arrogance that has come to the fore is reflective of the majority of this country, then I'm not sure I fit in. We've started looking into schools abroad and are looking to leave as soon as we can. I know people will say I should I get over myself, but the rug's been pulled from under my feet.

Maybe net migration will come down anyway, when high tax-payers and 'experts' start leaving for places in the world where they are valued.

NewMinouMinou Thu 30-Jun-16 10:48:03

shutthe

I've never been much of a fan of Empire etc etc - but I've come to realise just how much this illusion, this bulldog-flag-tea-cricket narrative drives people.

This hanging on to past "glories" (I don't see them as such) has helped us to get to where we are now.

The cupboard is bare.

AuntDotsie Thu 30-Jun-16 10:57:20

In the last week, I've realised that this isn't the country I recognise. I'm a second generation immigrant, but feel more British than anything else. And now I feel I've lost my sense of belonging. If the xenophobic, inward-looking arrogance that has come to the fore is reflective of the majority of this country, then I'm not sure I fit in.

flowers I feel exactly the same and bits of my family have been here since the Normans. I lived and grew up abroad but came back for much the same reasons. Now I've fallen completely out of love with England.

I've never been much of a fan of Empire etc etc - but I've come to realise just how much this illusion, this bulldog-flag-tea-cricket narrative drives people.

My non-Brit friends have been asking me why Britain doesn't like foreigners, where the xenophobia comes from. I mean, other countries obviously have their share of xenophobes and racists, but it's so pronounced here and we've made a bit of a massive global statement on the subject. I think you're right that this Empire nostalgia is a big part of that.

LittlePickleHead Thu 30-Jun-16 11:03:36

I am so worried about the divisions in this country become way bigger once the reality of what's hit this country starts to take effect.

I voted remain and feel angry, sad, and fearful. However once we have a functioning government and some idea of a way forward, with the hope that it's not the worst option in the world, we HAVE to find a way to mend these divisions.

A deeply divided nation where both sides feel righteous and mistrusting of he other can only lead to bad things imo.

Whilst my initial reaction is to say 'fuck you' to anyone who voted leave and suffers because of it, my rational side is telling me this won't help

Sorry for rambling post. Feeling very anxious right now

OohMavis Thu 30-Jun-16 11:09:52

It's a bit like someone deliberately pouring paint all over the floor and expecting the other person in the room to help them clean it up, even though they'd told them not to pour the paint all over the floor.

That's how it feels when Leavers tell me I should get over it and get stuck in trying to mend things now.

I'm sure that will change. I don't want anyone to suffer. But I don't think I'll stop feeling this way for a long time yet.

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