EU nations flat out refuse to negotiate with Scotland & won't let Scotland stay in the EU

[BritBrit]

Bosses of the EU & EU nations such as France & Spain have said they will not negotiate with Scotland & will not discuss Scotland joining the EU. They will only negotiate with the UK as a whole

Will this impact on a 2nd independence referendum? e.g. Scotland would have to reapply to join, adopt the Euro/Schengen etc. Spain also hint that if Scotland were to reapply after the UK leaves they would block them joining, clearly concerned over Catalonia

[BeauBelle22]

A second independence referendum now looks inevitable, although I think Sturgeon et al will take their time over it to ensure - this time - they get the 'right' result.

With Northern Ireland nearly as pro-EU as Scotland, and Plaid Cymru's Leanne Wood murmuring about how Wales would change its stance if it too was independent, I think you're looking at nothing less than the dissolution of the UK. If this happens then England will end up as a small independent nation surrounded by EU countries on all sides, including - most likely - a united Ireland.

Food for thought.

[alltouchedout]

I feel for Scotland. I feel for all of us who wanted to remain, but one of the big promises made at indyref was "stay in the UK and you'll stay in the EU". I really opposed going independent before but now I think good luck to them, if I could divorce myself from the mess the UK has become I would. (And I have a Scottish dad so I hope I could claim citizenship that way...)

[OurBlanche]

Well, during the Scottish referendum, the EU position was that it would be 'difficult if not impossible' for Scotland to join the EU alone.

The EU has stated clearly that it will not discuss anything with the UK until the A50 is triggered

Scotland is still part of the UK, so they can't start any negotiations and if they do leave why would the original EU stance have changed?

Sadly for the SNP there is little that a 2nd referendum would do for them. They could find themselves out of the UK and the EU...

[RiverTam]

I'd be surprised if Scotland got accepted into the EU, if it did hold and win another indyref, I doubt its finances would stand up to scrutiny.

[Corcory]

I'm glad to hear NS's posturing being put in to context. She shouldn't think she can go around negotiating on Scotland's behalf whilst being part of the UK.
If the idea of a second referendum in Scotland was put on the back burner there might start to be a bit more stability.
Don't feel sorry for Scotland I'll bet most of us don't really want another referendum anyway. 40% of us voted leave and a lot of the remains will want stability and wanted the status quo.

[Lilmisskittykat]

I can't see how Scotland could meet the criteria to join the eu it's in own right. They lean too heavily on England financially

[Pangurban1]

Guy van V. said there was no obstacle to an independent Scotland joining EU.

Spain wrt Catalonia, France wrt Brittany (although this cooled down) have issues, of course, with secessionist states.

Not every state is against it. NS has support in Taoiseach Enda Kenny.

"Enda Kenny says today that in last night's meeting of 28 EU leaders (where Cameron was still present!) he spoke on behalf of Nicola Sturgeon"

"Taoiseach repeated, on FM's request, Scotland's "very strong belief that they should not be dragged out of the EU when they voted to stay"

twitter.com/gavreilly/status/748179483023314944

[scaryteacher]

Verhofstadt is an MEP, he has no power, he just likes to think he does....

Belgium could also object, there is a secessionist movement here too.

[Summer23]

To say Nicola Sturgeon shouldn't be be negotiating on behalf of Scotland is simply ridiculous, she is First Minister. She's doing her job.

[RiverTam]

Scotland is not a nation state, so no, she shouldn't be negotiating, any more than Sadiq Khan could or should.

[Pangurban1]

Of course, he is an ex pm.

This Dr MacAmhlaigh thinks they could be flexible, if there was the will.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36643385

Some Countries very hardline though.

[Corcory]

Summer - Scotland is part of the UK and it's the UK who are members of the EU so that's who the EU will negotiate with.

[Summer23]

Scotland voted to stay in, it's expected NS will do what she can.

[Pangurban1]

Unlike Arlene Foster wrt NI's vote to remain.

[RiverTam]

Doesn't matter. The EU is made up of nation states, Scotland is not a nation state and lost its fairly recent referendum on the subject. Before it can even think about starting to apply to join the EU it needs to be a nation state.

Just more evidence of NS's megalomania, tbh. How the fuck does she think Scotland will meet the EU's economic criteria??

[QueenLaBeefah]

Spain will block Scotland ever joining the EU.

[STIDW]

EU won't get involved in UK internal politics. If there is another Scottish referendum & voters vote for independence before Brexit there is a possibility under human rights/international law Scotland could remain in the EU without having to reapply. Otherwise if Scotland voted for independence after Brexit it would need to reapply & accession would take 5-7 years.

[user1467101855]

If Scotland gained independence the EU would have to treat them the same as any other independent country. They couldn't refuse to negotiate at all.

[PattyPenguin]

As another poster has pointed out to tiggytape on another thread, Wales did not vote Leave more convincingly than England.

The figures:

England: Remain 11,113,232 votes (46.4%), Leave 9,611,351 votes (53.6%)
Wales: Remain 772,347 votes (47.5%), Leave 854,472 votes (52.5%)
Northern Ireland: Remain 408,744 votes (55.3%), Leave 330,783 votes (44.7%)
Scotland: Remain 1,661,191 votes (62%), Leave 1,018,322 votes (38%)

So in fact a slightly larger percentage of people voted Remain in Wales than in England.

[Corcory]

STIDW - I can't see how Scotland can have a indy referendum before Brexit. Surely the only way she would possible get a yes vote would be if she could guarantee Scotland would get into the EU and of course the EU have said they won't negotiate with anything other than a nation state and the only way that works if we are independent first and I really can't see that happening.

[mathanxiety]

Strange to see denial even extends to the prospect of a Scottish referendum.

[STIDW]

STIDW - I can't see how Scotland can have a indy referendum before Brexit. Surely the only way she would possible get a yes vote would be if she could guarantee Scotland would get into the EU and of course the EU have said they won't negotiate with anything other than a nation state and the only way that works if we are independent first and I really can't see that happening.

I agree there would need to be another indyref. Unfortunately as the EU referendum shows there are no guarantees. It's a gamble & tough decision but if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't act quickly any opportunities for the Scottish economy & to remain in the EU without having to go through the accession process will be lost.



Polls are showing there is a "modest" majority in favour of independence.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36646789

Another factor is financial "firms at the highest level want to start a fresh conversation with the Scottish government" re: Brexit & the single market. That could swing a lot of voters.

www.cityam.com/244356/farewell-london-hello-edinburgh-financial-services-find-new

Prof Sionaidh Douglas-Scott (Human Rights & EU law, Oxford) outlines the legal argument for an independent Scotland remaining in the EU by internal enlargement of the EU using the procedure for treaty amendment here;

papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2462227