Wales to seek independence and join the EU

(64 Posts)
SnowBells Tue 28-Jun-16 08:38:06

So according to this article, Wales want to seek independence and join the EU.

This is despite them overwhelmingly voting for LEAVE.

So joining the EU and breaking away from England now seems preferable to Brexit.

Surely, if that happens, you can't let this referendum stand as is?!

Gwenhwyfar Tue 28-Jun-16 08:42:54

As much as I'd like to say that this is a reason to have a second EU referendum, this change of tack from Plaid Cymru (to call for independence now rather than much further down the line) is just a reaction to the devastating news for Wales.

Joysmum Tue 28-Jun-16 08:45:11

Both Wales and Scotland export far more to the UK than to the EU. It doesn't make sense for them to leave the UK.

tiggytape Tue 28-Jun-16 08:56:48

If you mean a referendum can't stand because Plaid disagree with the Welsh people then that's probably pushing it:

The proportion voting to leave in Wales was larger than in England (52.5% of Welsh voters voted leave).

A total of 17/22 councils in Wales voted Leave.

Welsh areas like Ebbw Vale who (even they admit) are showered with EU cash voted to leave by a majority of 62%

I can see why many Welsh politicians think leaving is madness for their constituents (the turkeys voting for Christmas analogy) but the fact remains that is still what their constituents voted for.

In Wales you could argue the vote is possibly better informed than in England. They stood next to 10 foot notices outlining EU injections of cash and still voted Leave more enthusiastically than England.

whattheseithakasmean Tue 28-Jun-16 09:05:11

And areas like Ebbw Vale don't even have much in the way of immigration. It really is an insane and suicidal vote for many of the depressed rural areas. It does show that you can't counter perception with facts.

I saw an interview with a young bloke from Hartlepool. he thought that now we had voted Brexit, 'we might get the factories and jobs back'. Madness.

SnowBells Tue 28-Jun-16 09:24:17

tiggytape

People in Wales were interviewed. Despite all the notices of EU injections, they had NO clue. They thought they were a net contributor to the EU (i.e. took the UK number as their own).

It's the turkeys voting for Christmas, who thought about all the presents and mulled wine, not knowing what the actual tradition of Christmas entails!!!

PigletWasPoohsFriend Tue 28-Jun-16 09:28:28

Well good luck with satisfying all the criteria with having to join the EU. Including economic stability and being able to maintain yourself as a country.

tiggytape Tue 28-Jun-16 09:32:17

....and yet that's how they voted. There's no rule to say people have to vote how politicians think logic dictates they should vote..

In General Elections people vote Lib Dem because they want to abolish tuition fees knowing Lib Dems won't get a majority to do it (and then get upset), or they vote Labour because their dad did or they vote Tory because they're scared (rightly or wrongly) about something called "the deficit" (which they might or might not know anything about).

You can't just say some of the Welsh are clueless so their votes don't count.

SnowBells Tue 28-Jun-16 09:34:58

I know what you mean tiggytape. Bloody hell, this country's education system must be shit, if people vote just because they dad voted xxx.

SnowBells Tue 28-Jun-16 09:38:39

I mean... 80% of the media was pretty much pro-Brexit. What influence did that have!

MissBattleaxe Tue 28-Jun-16 09:40:17

Don't say "Wales wants to join the EU" say "Plaid Cymru" wants to join the EU. It is not the same. Plaid Cymru does not speak for Wales.

However, I voted Remain and I think many Brexit voters in Ebbw Vale couldn't see what was under their nose. Ebbw Vale gives nothing to the EU and in return, the EU injects multi million pound investments into their area to keep them afloat and regenerate the region. Oh and immigration? There is barely any at all in Ebbw Vale so I don't know what they're talking about.

tiggytape Tue 28-Jun-16 09:45:07

There are areas where there is a tradition of voting one way or the other and where the polices of the day don't feature as much as the fact that some people "would never vote for...." or "always vote for...." regardless.

That's why we have safe Tory seats, safe Labour seats and jokes in General Elections along the lines: "you could stick a red rosette on a donkey around here and it would win"

GooseRocks Tue 28-Jun-16 09:46:16

Sturgeon's been on the phone to them obviously.

This is all very well but the ONLY hope that Scotland and Wales have of getting in to the EU as independent countries is through the back door of never actually leaving. Scotland's deficit is 9% and rising - well short of the max 3% EU demand - and I can't imagine Wales are in a better position.

Add to that that Wales voted to Leave.

Add to that that 40%of Scotland voted to Leave and no one has any idea how many of the 60% that want to remain are pro independence - they can't all be, only 45% wanted independence 2 years ago.

Add to that that Spain will probably veto any attempt by independent Scotland or Wales to stay in EU because Catalonia.

I sort of admire Sturgeon for this. She knows that her only hope of winning indyref2 is to guarantee Scotland remain in EU. The odds are massively against that but I do believe she's trying though it's so far fetched as to be ridiculous.

Plaid case made even more ludicrous by fact that, however illogical it seems, Welsh majority was to leave.

MissBattleaxe Tue 28-Jun-16 09:47:24

I mean... 80% of the media was pretty much pro-Brexit. What influence did that have

and Rupert Murdoch is Brexit. Coincidence?

SnowBells Tue 28-Jun-16 09:50:42

Can we hold these lying bastards of politicians accountable?

It's one thing to promise something during an election, and then realizing afterwards that compromises need to be made... quite another to BLATANTLY LIE (i.e. those promises were built on lies upon lies).

BoJo & Co. promised Wales and other countries they would get the equivalent of EU funding (and put this down in writing, signed), in the full knowledge it couldn't really be done. Oh, and give money to the NHS, too.

That now looks very unlikely, and someone actually pointed out that due to the Brexit timings (2 years to get out, etc. during which EU funding would continue), and the careful words chosen, the promise amounted to nothing.

I'm pretty shocked at the state of UK politics, to be honest. The writers of 'House of Cards' must be eagerly watching us now.

SnowBells Tue 28-Jun-16 09:51:44

MissBattleaxe

I know. Absolutely hate Murdoch. Seriously can't wait for that old git to die. Just die!

Fontella Tue 28-Jun-16 10:28:50

The title of this thread is utterly ridiculous.

I'm as Welsh as Bara Brith and I can tell you there is no desire for Welsh Independence apart from a few diehard nationalists. Support in Wales is less than 10% as reflected by the fact that Plaid only have 3 out of 40 Welsh MPs, and only 12 of 60 seats on the Welsh Assembly. The Tories and UKIP alone could outvote them with a combined total of 18 seats, and that's not taking into account Labour and the others.

Leanne Wood just loves the sound of her own voice I'm afraid (and I say that as a former Plaid voter) but she's flogging a dead horse with her independence nonsense.

There is about as much chance of Wales going independent as there is of England winning the Euros seeing as how they got booted out last night.

MissBattleaxe Tue 28-Jun-16 11:39:30

Exactly Fontella. Plaid does not speak for Wales.

RepentAtLeisure Tue 28-Jun-16 11:46:31

It wouldn't work anyway. The EU would not accept Scotland, NI and Wales without England because England was the majority financial contributor.

TheNaze73 Tue 28-Jun-16 11:50:17

We lost the referendum OP. It's going to stand, we know it's wrong but, accept it

SnowBells Tue 28-Jun-16 11:59:04

RepentAtLeisure

And England is also soon going to lose its financial credibility. There are way too many companies planning to move jobs out of the country as we speak.

Businesses are allergic to uncertainty.

ErrolTheDragon Tue 28-Jun-16 12:11:10

Maybe Wales, NI and Scotland should merge with Ireland to become the Celtic People's Republic? (no, I'm sure that will never happen!)

WaitroseTrolley Tue 28-Jun-16 12:23:28

I love the sound of Leanne Wood's voice. It's lovely.
<misses point spectacularly>

Fontella Tue 28-Jun-16 13:18:13

* love the sound of Leanne Wood's voice. It's lovely.
<misses point spectacularly>*

Don't worry Waitrose so does my boyfriend.

grin

He's (very) English and right of Atilla the Hun politically, so you could have knocked me over with a feather when he said to me the other night 'I like how that Leanne Wood speaks.'

I'm very patriotic Welsh and a former Plaid voter and I replied - Huh, she talks a load of crap most of the time'. (my opinion only btw - not wishing to get into an argument).

He replied 'no I don't mean I like what she says, I mean I like how she speaks - her voice.'

confused

BeyondTellingEveryoneRealFacts Tue 28-Jun-16 13:34:49

I'd quite like welsh independence and i'm not a diehard nationalist. I know it isnt realistic any time soon though sad

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