So the people were right about EU Superstate Military....

[SayWhat123]

"Has Britain avoided a ‘European superstate’? France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’"

"Plans for 'a closer European Union' have been branded an attempt to create a 'European superstate'.

Germany's foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas - internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.


But the plans have been described as an 'ultimatum' in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU."

*Apparently Poland is very unhappy with this as they do not want German troops on their soil again and have threatened to negotiate with Russians (whom they were recently asking for protection from).

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html

[SayWhat123]

Here is the Russian source, there are many others online - I know some people don't like the Daily Mail.

www.pravdareport.com/news/world/europe/27-06-2016/134834-france_germany_superstate-0/

[Allisgood1]

Thank god we are out!

[EssentialHummus]

"proposal"
"Plan"
Unreliable source x 2

[BusyCee]

Yeah, thank god! Things are so stable and certain right now - much better than having alliances with those Jonny Foreigners!

[BrexitentialCrisis]

Mmm that's brave- coming on mumsnet with your daily mail link.
Watch and see the goodwill pour in!

[SayWhat123]

Hungary has been saying the same thing for nearly 10 years. They were not unreliable sources - they are named and quoted and you can find the entire proposal online.

[SayWhat123]

Yes - I know some people like to lash out due to that, which is why I listed a secondary source. You can literally find dozens of news articles from almost every country - also the proposal itself is leaked due to Poland having a chimp out over it. And they would not be the ones to push the UK farther away by lying - they sincerely want the UK to stay in the EU and are pushing for a second referendum.

[Allisgood1]

The problem with Mumsnet is they are taking the referendum results personally and therefore the claws have come out in force like usual

[Jellybean81]

I've been lurking on these threads trying to make sense of this madness but this is too much.

That article from the Daily Mail is nonsense - a proposal leaked by the nationalist right wing government from Poland, supported by sources from Russia -seriously?!
Believing that is like believing Farage and Johnsons lies about the £350m to NHS or that the Tory's will continue to subsidise the poor working class areas currently funded by the EU or that your vote wouldn't count. It's propaganda and it makes me so sad to know it's going to grow legs as people seem to have forgotten how to question the sources of information in these strange times.

The other thing people who are raving about how lucky we are to be out have forgotten is that we the UK presently have the power to veto this - so if we're in the EU this superstate never happens!

Instead we're now pushing for the least worst option of Brexit to then return cap in hand for whatever the pissed off 27 decide to give us as far as trade. Like Norway we will end up contributing, probably paying towards this super army and getting nada in return no more special dispensations all because of the power tripping egos of a bunch of multi millionaires

[SayWhat123]

All you are saying is that you don't believe it because you just don't. Why would the Polish Nationalist government leak something to further scare the UK when they are currently begging them in talks to hold another referendum?

[SayWhat123]

And you think the UK powers that be would have vetoed this?? They KNEW about it and it wasn't leaked in the press until AFTER the vote.

They should be hanged as traitors. Can you imagine the margin Brexit would have won by if an EU super military with likely conscription had been on the cards?

Cameron and the rest of the lot are into the one world government thing, Corbin didn't really support Remain because it goes against his national socialist tending principles. That is why he barely gave it lip service.

[SayWhat123]

Here is the first source from Reuters - which is as neutral as you can find in the world for reporting:

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-france-idUSKCN0ZC0BQ

[Janecc]

So instead we sit outside unprotected and without the means to block anything we disagree with. Great solution.

This isn't exactly breaking news either. It was quite possible to see where the EU is headed. We were warned we'd be less protected out than in. Again, it was dismissed as project fear.

[TheCrowFromBelow]

Can you imagine the margin Brexit would have won by if an EU super military with likely conscription had been on the cards?

I can't see anything in the Reuters article to support this statement, it talks abut standing maritime, border and coast guards but nothing abut a super army or conscription. That's quite a leap to make from this article.

[allegretto]

Dsily Mail scaremongering - the Reuters source says something completely different. Anyway as jellybean says if you wanted to avoid this you should have voted IN. You have no say now - which is scary.

[SayWhat123]

The Reuters source only gives basic talking points - Polish ministers elaborated on the rest.

I agree, the EU has been pretty clear this is what they were wanting and the UK nuke button is something they'd kill for. Poland may just pull out of the EU over this, which is the last thing you would have expected, but with the Polish I have learned to expect the unexpected.

Would be quite interesting if the talks Poland is arranging with UK leaders next week are about some kind of other arrangement outside the EU. I'm only speculating for fun here - as I don't think the UK gains a single thing by that - but a UK/US/Russia-Pole alliance would straighten out the EU military marching across Europe with Germany at the helm.

[SayWhat123]

This is the basic point the Reuters (which is only a newswire) source gives. I think you can infer what you like, it seems they've been planning this for quite awhile (the legelase they speak here is talking about 'cooperation' in the EU forces and EU bases where such cooperation is not established. Of course cooperation is supposed to be a two way street, not forced):

. A European Security Compact, under which:

• The EU should establish agreed strategic EU priorities for foreign and security policy and promote an integrated EU policy in these areas.

• Those EU member states willing to establish permanent structured cooperation in the field of defense should be able to do so in a flexible manner.

• If needed, EU member states should consider establishing standing maritime forces or acquiring EU-owned capabilities in other key areas.

1. A common European asylum and migration policy. The ministers said:

• We are determined that the EU should establish the world's first multinational border and coast guard.

• The EU must find a common answer to the rising number of migrants seeking to enter the EU for economic reasons.

• We will work to reduce push factors for irregular migration.

[allegretto]

You say that mumsnet doesn't like the Daily Mail but you seem to have no idea why. The Daily Mail has always been anti-foreigner. It scaremongered about Jewish refugees in the 1930s and gave support to Nazi Germany - they are basically doing the same thing now. That is what is so scary. Who was the only major leader in favour of Brexit? Putin. He would love the break up of the EU. And yet you post a RUSSIAN news source to prove how valid your argument is!! What I really find scary is how gullible people are and unwilling to read around and get the real picture.

[SayWhat123]

The EU is hoping to push NATO out altogether as they have been extremely mad at the amount of the control the UK & USA have in NATO.

[SayWhat123]

I'm not going to dignify a response about 'jews nazis holocaust' - besides the Reuters source was written by a jew. And is as unbiased as you can get.

[allegretto]

Source? The EU needs to be able to control its borders (especially in the Med). This means collaboration between the countries but definitely doesn't mean that there is going to be conscription or control of each country's armies. Personally I think the idea of a Europe wide force for peacekeeping / border monitoring is quite valid - it would even create jobs for those who want a military career. If you really find it so scary though why did you vote out - we could have vetoed it if we stayed in. Now we will probably have to pay for it anyway.

[Threepineapples]

We had this thread yesterday

It's groundhog day

[StealthPolarBear]

I see words like integrated policy and cooperation. I do not see super army or conscription.

[allegretto]

The reference to the Nazis referred to the 1930s - this is not an opinion but a well-known fact. I included it because you don't seem to understand that people's objection to the Daily Mail is due to this (as well as many more unsavoury reasons).