Haven't EU rules made european workers lazy and are we paying to sustain them???

(28 Posts)
Pritti7 Wed 22-Jun-16 19:12:29

I have personally met people in Belgium and Spain who take time off from work for petty reasons and stay on dole simply because the EU allows it. Would you work if you knew that even if you chose to stay at home the governemtn would pay you the same amount of money??
Some business owners I knew complained that they have to pay the government what they pay their staff (if wage is 1000 eur/month, the employee costs the business 2000eur each month) so in case these employees were ever fired or chose to leave at their whim (with so little as a doctors note that they are depressed, which is not at all hard to get if one cries hard and long enough in front of the doctor) the government can support them. Imagine if you cannot tell your staff off because you never know what makes them flip and they quit, simply because they don't have to work to earn a living.

Haven't EU rules made people so lazy that they don't mind being out of employment because they know they will get paid the same amount of money whether they work or whether they are on dole????
In spain by law an employee could be out of employment and on dole for a year. May be this has changed after their recession. And again I know 3 people who have made full use of this 'Comfort'.

I have also met someone personally from Sweden (who also had friends in similar situations) who had never ever worked in her life and was supported by the government only because she became a mother at an early age. the monthly benefit was enough that she could go a week long holiday to other european countries twice a year.

I have personally seen people in Belgium who were allowed into the country on asylum. These very same people were working in houses as domestic help, and also claiming over 1000 Euros per month to sustain themselves. Thats just cash! not including healthcare and right to educate their children. Lets not forget while paying no tax!!

I don't read the newspaper or follow whats being said, because each party is telling us what they want us to hear. Just from what I know from my experience, I feel the EU is making people lazy. If productivity goes down, production will go down and prosperity will diminish.

EU membership would have been beneficial for UK if it was a union of super powers. But with so many weak candidates joining, is it holding us back? I am no economist or C-suite executive, so I don't know, but lets just look around,
has our quality of life improved?
has healthcare improved?
Has education got any cheaper??
Min wage helped households step up to 50p per hour. Umm that means roughly a £20 per week , is that really a significant improvement?

So if UK has to suffer for 10 years after exit, is it a lot if that could mean a secure future for the coming generations? And if it stays to save us from the next 10 years of insecurity and uncertainty but bleeds us to death in the next 50-100 years?

Again, I don't claim to know much and this is my opinion and just one side of the coin. So please excuse my lack of information.

BrexitentialCrisis Wed 22-Jun-16 21:02:59

Hello priti Patel grin

BrexitentialCrisis Wed 22-Jun-16 21:03:05

Hello priti Patel grin

BrexitentialCrisis Wed 22-Jun-16 21:16:29

Sorry that wasn't the educated response you were hoping for blush. You may well be right, or this may not be accurate after all- I don't know.

I've gone beyond crisis point in worrying about all this and have become a bit unhinged- am terrified about tomorrow and wish it just wasn't happening!

RitchyBestingFace Wed 22-Jun-16 21:32:38

Wow. You seem well-informed OP.

Pritti7 Wed 22-Jun-16 23:33:37

I guess you are right Brexit because the choice is ours and if it all goes wrong for us in future, we are to blame

Pritti7 Wed 22-Jun-16 23:36:12

Non-EU and European nationals are also allowed to vote I hear. Whoever came up with that???? People who have another country to run off to in future as a consequence of their vote are also allowed to have a say in Britain's future!!! Although what i do find surprising is

Roonerspism Wed 22-Jun-16 23:38:52

I think your points possibly have merit although I think it is domestic law that decides this kind detail of labour law.

I do agree on one thing. The EEC made complete sense as it bright together countries of equal economic standing. The reason the EU is fucked is because of the huge diversity in wealth of nations. This has huge drawbacks.

I also agree we are in for some uncertainty if we Leave but huge long term gain. I feel if we remain there are far bigger long term risks

tabulahrasa Wed 22-Jun-16 23:42:32

The EU doesn't set welfare rates.

allegretto Wed 22-Jun-16 23:44:53

I'm not sure if you're joking or not but in Italy there are hardly any benefits and if you have never paid into the pot you get zero unemployment benefit.

allegretto Wed 22-Jun-16 23:45:56

And you're wrong about who can vote.

Lunde Wed 22-Jun-16 23:47:55

Countries set their own rules for receiving the dole - it is not regulated by the EU

Some EU countries have much stricter rules and a 2 tier unemployment benefit system
- higher rate for those who have paid into an unemployment fund for at least a year
- lower rate - income suport- for those who have not paid in - but may be expected to sell assets such as cars/electronics

In both systems you are only allowed to turn down 2-3 jobs and with good reason - otherwise your benefits are stopped. However there is more help/training if you want to get new skills

I had a friend who was an unemployed newly qualified teacher who managed to get supply work from 8-3.30 daily in Sweden - but was chased by the benefits agency for "only working part-time/75%"

Lunde Wed 22-Jun-16 23:50:01

Foreign citizens are not allowed to vote in the EU referendum (so I guess Farage's wife cannot vote for him.

UK citizens who live abroad are also not allowed to vote in the future of their own country

Slingcrump Thu 23-Jun-16 04:33:44

This falls under the competence of individual Member States, not the EU.

The UK is part of Europe

If by "European" workers, you mean our continental cousins, then before calling them lazy, it might be worthwhile noting that UK productivity is substantially lower than that of France, Germany and Italy.

Britain also has a five point productivity gap with Spain, a 30 point gap with Ireland, a 34 point gap with your "oh so lazyBelgians" and a 45 point gap with The Netherlands.

Slingcrump Thu 23-Jun-16 05:03:15

Reading that back, that sounds snipierr than I'd ntended! Travelling, so posting from phone.

Anyway, truly hope UK still part of Europe this time tomorrow morning but each to their own op!

OrangesandLemonsNow Thu 23-Jun-16 05:26:04

so I guess Farage's wife cannot vote for him.

She couldn't 'vote for him' anyway. He isn't on the ballot paper.

clearsommespace Thu 23-Jun-16 06:09:35

What do you mean by ' take time off work for petty reasons'?
You shouldn't have to give a reason when you take time off work. You are entitled to the amount of days in your employment contract.
It's your paid holiday and you can use it how you like.

Figmentofmyimagination Thu 23-Jun-16 08:18:30

The EU has nothing to do with controlling wage levels, termination terms, sick pay and so on.

The EU's only role in relation to these issues is to mandate minimum equal treatment standards in relation to gender, pregnancy, health and safety, TUPE transfer etc and to require collective consultation if 20 or more workers are at risk of redundancy.

All the things you cite in your post are the responsibility of the member state.

You are correct that the uk currently has a competitive advantage - at least at the level of low skill jobs - over some of our European neighbours because we already have some of the least regulated employment laws - especially as to termination of employment - in the developed world. Some employers like the uk because it's much easier and cheaper to sack people here in a downturn - and the more mechanised the role - eg call centre work, the easier it is to 'churn' your workforce to respond to economic fluctuations.

If we leave the EU and wages drop, it is conceivable that we might end up with an even bigger 'competitive advantage' - as the 'low wage low rights' economy of Europe - but wages would have to drop pretty low to achieve this, and it wouldn't be much fun to live here with a correspondingly low tax take and fewer imported goods - and your wages would be worth not very much if you ever wanted to travel outside the uk.

scaryteacher Thu 23-Jun-16 11:31:50

UK citizens who live abroad are also not allowed to vote in the future of their own country Yes they are if they are crown servants, HM Forces, or have been abroad less than 15 years. I've voted and I live abroad and am a UK Citizen.

clearsommespace Many Belgians seem to think that so many sickies per year is their 'entitlement' on top of their paid holiday (they take them as well, irrespective of their health).

Pritti7 Thu 23-Jun-16 12:54:05

Thank you for correcting me on some things like who can vote and it being meember states and not EU who decides these rules. I was always upset why some people have been given such a cushy life to the extent they become piss takers. benefits should be there for people who genuinely need them, not lazy people who can't be asked to do anything.

clearsommespace by time off i mean they stay home sick even if they are ok. and I have see that with my own eyes.

Figment why is it certain that wages will drop if we leave the EU?
I do agree that businesses stay in UK and trade to the EU because this way they have lose employment rules yet can continue trading to the EU.

Some of my friends working for big companies have been told by the company that if UK leaves Eu it will not be good for the business, tariffs will increase and that will result in losing jobs. Indirectly isn't this influencing your staff to vote for what is beneficial for the business?

Pangurban1 Thu 23-Jun-16 13:03:18

I know Pritti, they are nearly as bad as Prince William with a few days here and there when it suits and costing the taxpayer loads of dosh. They must be clever to get this type of bankrolling in Spain. They have quite a restrictive Welfare system, I've heard.

Mind you I know people from Spain are working, so my anecdotal differs from you. From my experience all the Greek, Romanian, Polish, Swedish, Hungarian, Czech, Portuguese, French people of my acquaintances are all working. So my data shows zero unemployed of those nationalities.

How do we decide the typical?

Pangurban1 Thu 23-Jun-16 13:05:54

"by time off i mean they stay home sick even if they are ok. and I have see that with my own eyes."

That is such a culture shock. Is there even a word for it in English? Having zero incidence of it in the UK and all.

SolomanDaisy Thu 23-Jun-16 13:11:03

Wait till British people here about this concept of having a day off work and pretending to be ill. We'll have to invent a whole new word for it. Thank god those lazy EU ideas haven't made it across the channel. We're getting out at just the right time.

SolomanDaisy Thu 23-Jun-16 13:12:49

I know a shitload of Dutch people who've just gone ahead and gone into work today. I can only think they haven't heard of these EU benefits.

Pritti7 Thu 23-Jun-16 13:19:12

Pangurban1 i wasn't refering to a proportion of the people I met. I just said I had heard of such incidents happen in these European countries. And when I was working 9-10 hours everyday and then met someone who said "I am on dole, get paid the same as I would if I worked", surely it wouldn't go down too well.

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