Jeremy Corbyn admits being in the EU means unlimited immigration & no upper limit on numbers

(61 Posts)
BritBrit Sun 19-Jun-16 13:09:44

After weeks of David Cameron saying we can control immigration whilst in the EU Corbyn speaks the truth & says there can never be any upper limit to immigration whilst we are in the EU & we can never limit numbers if we are an EU member

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36570383

shinytorch2 Sun 19-Jun-16 14:29:20

Something I think everyone knows. Makes planning at the local level as well as the central level next to impossible. How many houses should we build next year or in 5 years, how many schools, hospitals ?

i know - let's build high density housing on the green belt and the flood plains. That's the reality round here.

houseeveryweekend Sun 19-Jun-16 14:32:15

Right well maybe we should then turn our attention to the government and ask why they are not investing in the NHS or housing etc It doesnt make planning impossible what it makes impossible is for the government to ignore its people and focus on profit which is why the furthest right of the Tory party all want Brexit so much.

EnthusiasmDisturbed Sun 19-Jun-16 14:36:41

Are they squirrelling money away in a private piggy bank that can be magically found to put more money into the NHS and housing

Both desperately need more investment for the people who are already here not for those who might or might not come over

ThroughThickAndThin01 Sun 19-Jun-16 14:36:42

But I dont want new housing estates, schools, hospitals, new towns built all over our farmland and countryside houseeveryweekend to accommodate the 600,000+ figure the BBC said were registering for national insurance last year.

If that happens year on year, what a horrible legacy for future generations

shinytorch2 Sun 19-Jun-16 14:40:23

Local govrernment friends tell me they find it hard to plan because the big unknown is the size of the population they are serving in the next few months to several years. I agree about shitty funding from central government - even Cameron's mother had a go at him about loss of local services which are very real and hitting Tory stronghold areas in addition to the rest of the country. And yet Microsoft is allowed by HMRC (aka Government) to funnel its profits through Ireland as corporation tax is 12.5% there, 20% here.

houseeveryweekend Sun 19-Jun-16 14:57:07

The Tory cuts are crippling our NHS not immigrants. Im afraid ThroughThickandThin that that is just the future. Even if we stopped all free movement from Europe we would still have immigrants coming here from around the world needing housing etc and we still need to house our own growing population. We need to adapt to that which is not going to happen when our government is obsessed with making profit for certain individuals. I think a more horrific prospect for my children is growing up without the NHS or the human rights act. I dont think the EU is perfect but working for the NHS i see them as the only people who are doing anything to prevent complete privitisation, they are also protecting welfare for some of the most vulnerable. On a more personal level they have protected statutory maternity pay without which i would have been utterly screwed. There is strong opposition to TTIP within the union whereas within our own government there is massive support.

EnthusiasmDisturbed Sun 19-Jun-16 15:05:28

Agree it's the cuts that are crippling our NHS

But there isn't the money there to invest for people who might come over

So even if we had a change in direction more money invested into the NHS we are a long way off from the NHS being safe

WidowWadman Sun 19-Jun-16 15:06:08

Theoretically nothing would stop the whole of the British population from moving to. Milton Keynes tomorrow. And planners couldn't prepare for that either. As long as you don't start a system where everyone needs to apply for a permit before moving anywhere, planning is always about dealing with unknowns. Theoretically all Britons could pack their bags and move to Germany. You even get higher child benefit there.... How do Spanish planners deal with British pensioners?

shinytorch2 Sun 19-Jun-16 15:08:47

There is migration from Southern Europe (40-50% youth unemployment, economies in the shit) to Northern Europe (unemployment c5%)........ In addition to the mass migration We've witnessed over the past year from the ME. Turkey of course is now using that sad situation to get what it wants from Europe. I'm afraid we will just keep building to keep housing our rising population. I can't see anything stopping it. Neither can Corbyn as we can't control it whilst in the EU. Onwards and upwards to 80,000,000 + ...... There is nothing we can do but make people work harder, pay more tax in order to fund this. They don't call it the rat race for nothing.

MangoMoon Sun 19-Jun-16 15:09:35

Agree.

It's not the fact there's immigration, it's the constant uncertainty of numbers.
If there were controlled immigration then budgets & planning would be better targeted & managed.

Limer Sun 19-Jun-16 15:10:31

British pensioners in Spain don't want jobs, they don't want social housing, they don't want benefits, they don't want school or college places. Spain claims back their health costs from the UK. All that the Spanish planners need to do is make sure there are enough shops, bars and restaurants.

Flisspaps Sun 19-Jun-16 15:11:23

Throughthickandthin whereas I'm quite happy to have a significant proportion of green belt to be built on if necessary - all of our towns and cities were fields at one point. I live in a 'New Town', largely developed in the 60s and 70s and this is what happened here. We're still not short of green open spaces.

The issue for me is ensuring its not just housing that's built, but schools, GP surgeries and other amenities are included in developments rather than simply piling additional people onto existing services. If that means we lose some of our green spaces, so be it. I'm not suggesting we build on all of it, or on flood plains, but there is ample land to use when it comes to building HS2 or a new runway for an airport, so why not additional housing developments?

Limer Sun 19-Jun-16 15:16:42

Those green open spaces aren't spare. They're valuable farmland, woodland, floodplain, native habitats housing our wildlife species.

We should protect our environment at all costs. Concreting over the countryside ad infinitum can never have a happy ending.

NeckguardUnbespoke Sun 19-Jun-16 15:20:02

but there is ample land to use when it comes to building HS2

HS2 is a strip of land about ten metres wide by a couple of hundred kilometres long, so a couple of square kilometres. London has a population density of about 5000/sq.km. So HS2 would provide room for 10 000 people.

new runway for an airport

A full-size runway at a big airport is 4km by 50m, so 0.2 sq km. That's room for another 1000 people at London density.

So you've killed off two major infrastructure projects, the larger of which is about the only way we can provide sufficient commuter capacity into London from the north (the main reason for HS2 is to make capacity on the WCML) and found room to house about 11 000 people. Current housing starts are about 140 000 per year, so housing so, what, about half a million people? So the land needed for HS2 and a major runway build would provide an additional week's worth of building land, once.

shinytorch2 Sun 19-Jun-16 15:22:48

And 140,000 housing starts per year is not enough at the current run rate of immigration.......

Limer I agree with you.

NeckguardUnbespoke Sun 19-Jun-16 15:26:34

And 140,000 housing starts per year is not enough at the current run rate of immigration.......

Correct. But point to an additional 2.2sq.km. of land isn't going to help.

shinytorch2 Sun 19-Jun-16 15:50:54

I didn't point to that land - Flisspaps did. smile

dalek Sun 19-Jun-16 16:01:09

At least he has admitted it - and then people can decide if that's a deal breaker for them or not. Better than most of the others (on both sides) making up things as they go along.

Kelandry Sun 19-Jun-16 17:49:58

I know Cameron knows he can't reduce, stop, slow down migration so why does he keep saying he will 'control' it? My guess is he will bring in ways to funnel migrants to specific areas currently unaffected by them, thus "controlling" them. He can claim he meant this all along, and gets away with lying to us all. Again.

BungoWomble Sun 19-Jun-16 17:52:45

More specifically he's admitted the obvious, which is that immigration will continue while we have the EU's freedom of movement agenda. Which is not necessarily the same thing as the EU.

I'd bring exiters attention to another equally sensible thing he said: "If we leave as a country, exactly the same arguments are going to be made about housing, about jobs, about social security. All those issues are going to be the same on Friday as they are on Thursday.
"The only thing is - it's going to be slightly more difficult - or very much more difficult - because the trade arrangements with Europe are now quite deeply embedded."

Immigration does not cause all of our domestic problems. The EU does not cause all of our domestic problems. The EU doesn't even cause all of our immigration.

KathyBeale Sun 19-Jun-16 17:56:22

Surely it's self-limiting though? Moving to a new country is a big deal. It's expensive and it's scary and it takes a lot of planning. I don't think people will keep coming it there are no jobs and no services and nowhere for them to live. Why would they? They'd be better off staying where they are or going to a different EU country.

winkywinkola Sun 19-Jun-16 17:56:22

Leaving the EU will not stop immigration.

ThroughThickAndThin01 Sun 19-Jun-16 17:57:42

It'll cut it down 50%.

I wouldn't want Cameron negotiating the Brexit deal.

BungoWomble Sun 19-Jun-16 18:22:44

Will it? Or will those who want cheap migrant labour merely source it from elsewhere? I don't know. Agree about Cameron though.

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