Stay or go? (unfortunately, instead of taking this really seriously, which it is: I can only think of the clash!) Nobody is giving me any real info on which to base a decision

[dihannah23]

I've thought about this for a while; to begin with, I was just angry about being put in this position because this is what we vote for, isn't it: someone to represent our best interests who know what they are doing.

Once I'd realised that we've been held out to dry, I started to get less angry and over time have a think about what's good for me and my children. I've come to the conclusion that: for me & my kids - we cannot compete in the european market because despite being very intelligent and having numerous A*,there is no fluent second language spoken, therefore, anyone from the eu who is similarly bright can take my son/daughters job beause they have the added advantage of speaking english. (And possibly an additional language). Plus, those who are not so bright, but can still speak english, will have an advantage and can come to england and take the lower jobs.

Much as I'm disgusted at having to make the decision because surely that was one of the reasons why we elect our mps for, I am left not believing or understanding a word that's been said for in or out.
Left with nothing realistic to base my decision on, just what's been said or not been said in the media, propaganda leaflets etc. by default I am left with no real facts~;which is why I've made my own decision, selfish maybe, but it has to be to leave the EU. Our children are not ready to compete. Think about the realism xx

[TJEckleburg]

So how does leaving the EU make your children more able to compete in a global market? Because you do realise that most trade and companies are global now? Which won't be changed by us leaving the EU? And so those global companies will simply take their business to Paris or Frankfurt or Milan where they will employ only bilingual Europeans.

It is not the EU's fault that successive Governments have failed to invest in MFL provision in our schools.

If you want facts, please check out fullfact.org

[ilovesooty]

You are serious about voting out purely because your children don't have second language competencies?

[Limer]

I agree with you dihannah23 and it's as good a reason as any for voting out.

There are also the facts that the Eurozone is failing, the future plans for the EU involve ever-closer union at all levels, and uncontrolled immigration to the UK means unsustainable pressure on housing, public services and the environment.

[TheGirlOnTheLanding]

No one - on either side - can give us all the facts because it's all predictions and projections but this is the most balanced view I've read. http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/06/05/how-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/

You need to take more than just the job market into account - trade, the economy, employee rights etc are all part of the mix.

[Brokenbiscuit]

Your kids still won't be bilingual if we leave the EU. Jobs which need language skills will still go elsewhere.

Your kids can learn another language if you think it's important. I speak several languages, as does DH, and tbh I've never found it that useful in the job market.

There won't be many jobs for your children if the UK economy crashes, whether they speak a second language or not.

[LadyStarkOfWinterfell]

There are no facts though, it's mostly about spin and instinct. i don't follow your logic that your children will be more desirable in the job market if we leave the EU though.

[Balletgirlmum]

I read the Martin Lewis link last night & thought it to be a reasoned, balanced presentation of all the issues.

[MrsBlackthorn]

Realistically, given the rate at which computer translation is improving in 15 years time people will be able to converse without knowing another language anyway.

This does seem s peculiar reason for leaving, though. Fewer multinational companies in the UK means fewer opportunities for your kids. Companies have said they'll move operations to places that are within the away to avoid trade tarrifs (mine will almost certainly do so, with a loss of about 25% of jobs immediately and up to 70% long term).

[bananabrain35]

Have a look at this interview and watch the other ones that Andrew Neil is doing over the next 2 weeks with reps from both sides. He's about the only interviewer who cuts through the cr*p !!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2657026-Andrew-Neil-interview-with-George-Osborne

[Chalalala]

I can think of much, much better reasons for leaving than this - and I'm a committed Remainer!

Sorry, that's isn't very helpful. As others have said, removing a portion of the bilingual competition won't necessarily help if there are fewer jobs all around.

I third the MoneySavingsExpert suggestion, it's a pretty fair and balanced assessment.

[MrsBlackthorn]

DiHannah23 This is worth reading - Young people's opportunitues are expected to be hardest hit by Brexit - graduate and apprentice jobs will be quickest to disappear.

gu.com/p/4kmg9?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[AnnaForbes]

dihannah23, bright, ambitious and talented people will be able to find jobs all over the world without the need for a second language. A second language may be a wonderful thing to have but it isn't essential in order to live and work abroad.

I'm voting out because it is my children's best interests to do so. There are many reasons, all explained, listed and discussed on various MN threads, why I think we offer our children a better future outside of the EU. I'm not angry at being asked to vote, I'm delighted to have the chance. I am incredibly angry however at the dirty tricks the remain camp are using to rig the vote.

[Winterbiscuit]

"If I go there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double"

That sums it up

[dihannah23]

I agree, What we need to think about is that so many of the other countries's bright kids can speak english as a second language and no matter how bright our english kids are, they can only speak german, or french. or spanish and therefore we are potentially opening our doors to 30000000 + bright english speakers and we cannot export the same amount with languages

[dihannah23]

Watch this

[dihannah23]

Because they are bright. It is , as you say, becoming a global market and that is where we need to look to. It is very short term, in the big scheme of things, bowing to the eu.

[dihannah23]

you should look at this - as it is just me and my opinion and not propaganda

[dihannah23]

Yes, but they do. Unfortunately only one. Everyone else in europe speaks english and so, we are not playing on a level playing field if our kids can only speak french

[dihannah23]

Absolutely. Do you have children?

[WifeofDarth]

I don't get this argument at all.
Don't speak foreign languages so should come out of the EU?
London is currently Europe's financial centre. Whatever we like or dislike about that the fact is that there are lots of high earners (many EU nationals) paying 40% tax into our coffers.
If we vote out and send all those linguistic EU nationals home then there are no brits with the skills to take those jobs.So even if the multinationals don't just up sticks and move their HQs to stay in the EU the jobs will have to move to where there are those skills (like Frankfurt). We will lose the tax revenue of those high earners, and most significantly we will lose all the support roles that go with that (the IT infrastructure, HR, Accounts etc), putting brits out of work and further reducing tax receipts.

In the long term I'd love to see Brits with better language skills able to compete in this environment, but in the short term I don't see what we've got to gain by putting up barriers to those kinds of skills coming to the UK.
For me this is where the 'Utopia after Brexit' argument falls apart. Because you need good tax revenue to create Utopia and I just don't see where that tax revenue is going to come after Brexit.

[MuddledMuse]

One major unanswered question is WHY don't we have British youngsters who are capable of filling these roles? I'm not talking about roles which require language skills because, let's face it, most jobs based here do not require language skills. We have the largest number of young people going to university and we don't have people with the required skills? Why do we have a shortage of home grown doctors and nurses? Where are the apprentiships?

It doesn't make any sense. The only explanation I can come up with is that it is CHEAPER to employ someone who is coming from an EU country where there is large scale unemployment, particularly youth unemployment.

I'll add that I work with people from all over the world, and I don't want anyone kicked out of the country. I don't blame them for making the very best of the opportunities presented to them and I accept their valuable contributions. The blame lies completely at the feet on the government. But so long as the government and companies can access cheaper labour from the EU, they will not be interested in training up our youngsters. This fact and others, such as the high price of housing, suggests a bleak future for the next generations unless something changes.

[PausingFlatly]

Just coming on to link to Full Fact as well.

They're trying to neutrally fact-check as many claims as possible. And df you have a specific query, submit it and they'll try to do that as well.

[Millyonthefloss2]

This made me laugh in the Mirror today.

Fish filleter Tony Blowers, 59, will vote Remain on Thursday.
“When you’re in you know what sort of s you’re in,” he said.
“You don’t know what sort of s you’re in when you’re out.”

So would you prefer the shit you've got used to or some new shit?
Personally I would prefer some new shit.

[Chalalala]

Tony Blowers saying it like it is

[SpringingIntoAction]

You have a simple choice

Leave and reclaim our rights to make our laws to govern ourselves and restore sovereignty and democracy to the Bristish people. Leave to be able to change a Government you no longer want

Remain in the EU and have your laws made by an unelected, undemocratic EU that you can never vote out of office no matter how bad they are and in which the UK only has a small fraction of the say(around 17%) in the EU decision making, will lose even that as more countries join and can be out voted.

Uk Democracy or EU Bureaucracy.

Simple choice.