do i stay in my damp cold expensive house or lie through my teeth so my kids can have a nice home??

(332 Posts)
bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 15:49:44

just looking for some advice really, i am a single mother to 2 DD, 10 months and 2yrs.
we currently live in a 3 bed semi detatched house, it has an old back boiler which makes the gas bills huge yet we are still always freezing. the garden is a vertical hill (literally!) there is mold growing on the kids bedroom wall. the double glazing doesn't work and there is puddles of water on all the windowsills every morning. i hate it!!
in the area i live there is a shortage of social housing and my name is on all council/housing association lists. my only hope is a house from an estate agents. but of course they won't accept DSS.
now i get my housing benefit paid to me so there is no reason i need to disclose this other than it being dishonest. but i know i would be a great tenant, i have never not paid my rent, i'm a clean freak and have no pets.
i have found a perfect house that i can afford and have the application form in front of me, i know i won't get it if i tell the truth. i have a friend who runs her own business and would say i worked for her. i just don't know what to do??
the eatate agents use MARAS, will my bank tell them where my funds come from?

YDdraigGoch Mon 26-Nov-12 15:57:24

I don't know what the repercussions would be if you lie, though I'd be tempted myself too. I think there might also be repercussions if your friend lies on your behalf - and you might have to produce payslips for the last xx months as evidence of retular income.

Isn't there any alternative? The house you're in doesn't sound at all suitable for habitation, let alone by babies.

Would you get a house quicker if the children shared a room? (ie if you went for a two bedroom house?

Perhaps you could explain your circumstances to the estate agent, or directly to the person letting the house and appeal to their better nature. A reference from whoever you pay rent to now to say you've never not paid on time, looked after the property really well, etc etc would help with this. Nothing is ever cast in concrete!

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 16:12:01

well i've hated this house since the day i moved in (18 months ago) and have been looking at all possible options and this seems to be my only one.
yes this house i want is a 2 bed, its a nice small modern house with a safe garden. would be very cheap to keep warm, it is literally perfect.
there is no point asking the estate agents as it said on the advert in huge capitals, 'NO DHSS'!
i met the landlord yesterday as he showed me around, he seemed nice. i havn't got his contact details but did consider asking his current tenants to pass my number on to him and just explain my situation but then i risk messing it up. a house that is perfect for me and the kids that i can afford might not come up in this area again for months/years. i live in a rural location and there just aren't that many houses.

Do it i say.

I did, and i no longer get housing benefit, but my landlord was none the wiser.

Only thing to watch is there can be a gap with a change of claiming address, so make sure you have funds to cover that

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 16:32:41

diet, did you go through an estate agents? were you asked for any proof of income?
i have to give the 50quid when i hand in my app form, really don't want to loose 50quid if i don't stand a chance of passing the credit checks.
i have no bad credit but im just worried that they can find out im not working.

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 16:36:43

p.s the only reason i can afford this option is because my mum can lend me the months rent in advance and deposit. its a shitty situation for people who have no one to lend them money.

NatashaBee Mon 26-Nov-12 16:39:17

We had a check through MARAS, all they did was call the work switchboard number we'd given and ask to speak to HR who confirmed we'd worked there and for how long. They will not be able to look at your bank account and see where the funds come from via the credit check (but there is the possibility that they may request bank statements for some other part of the check, or your payslips... unlikely but you never know). Do you have anyone who could be a guarantor for you? Maybe you could ask the estate agent what paperwork they need from you, prior to handing in the form, and see if they mention payslips or bank statements?

thornrose Mon 26-Nov-12 16:47:39

The agents will get in touch with your employer and probably ask for a faxed copy of your contract of employment. Or at least that's what mine did!

The problem with approaching the landlord direct is that there are often clauses in their mortgage that means they can't rent to DSS tenants so he might have to say no on that basis.

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 16:48:13

yes my mum is willing to be a guarantor. i can get fakev wageslips but not bank statements.
i asked the lady today about any documents i would need and she said all i had to do was fill in the maras form. thanks for replies.

thornrose Mon 26-Nov-12 16:49:18

I have my mum as my guarantor as I only work part time atm. Could you do that?

If you have a guarantor then it shouldn't matter tbh. As they have a guarantee of their money. I'd just approach and be truthful, with a guarantor it should be ok.

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 16:57:15

well when i first rang up to book a viewing the first thing she asked was if i was on benefits and i said no, so to tell the truth now would be to admit i was lying.
i was thinking of saying i work part time for my friend and receive tax credits (i do) so half truth?
i really need the house and don't want to mess it up.

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 16:59:32

well if they contacted my "employer" we could somehow get around it i think.
is there any estate agents here who could give there opinion?

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 17:05:44

if you move house and still expect to get Hb the housing office will request you rnew LL details and will ask you to get a declaration of occupancy filled in and signed by your Ll. if you dont do this you willnot be paid any HB. your LL will find out.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 17:15:59

sorry, certificate of occupation. not declaration.

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 17:16:09

i don't remember having to do that at my present house, are housing benefit rules different with different councils? also im in wales so rules might be different.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 17:21:16

maybe they are. i'm in NI and i definitely have to get it signed by LL. they suspend my claim for HB until all forms have been received and shoved in a drawer for 4 weeks

even if you dont have to do that. i wouldn't do it in your shoes. it could get quite a few people into trouble not to mention it could leave you homeless if LL finds out and evicts you. if LL isn't allowed to have DSS tenants as part of their mortgage terms it could invalidate their insurance or affect their mortgage rate. it could get your friend into trouble for forging payslips and pretending to be your boss, they could end up being liable for tax and NI payments that are supposedly due from your 'salary'.

You know what, either way you could lose the house (ie pretending to work, or talking to the landlord). I'd phone the landlord, and speak to him candidly. It may be a case of additional cost of insurance to have HB claimants in it. Could you afford to offer to pay the extra cost if it comes up? Get character references and current LL references, and letter from your mum as guarantor, it may all help you.

I wish you luck.

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 17:27:47

i know there are risks involved but i just sort of feel like im in a position that i can either sit here and rot or take a few risks.
i mean say the landlord finds out in 6 month but ive been a great tenant. would he really go to all the expense of kicking me out and finding a new tenant?
if he did i would just have to find somewhere else i suppose, but it would be better than the dump im in now.
freezing with socks slippers 3 jumpers and a 180pound gas bill for 42 days!!!

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 17:34:05

i just dont think it's wise to take a risk on the LL's character. they could be really pissed off that you lied and evict you regardless of how good a tenant you've been. and tbh, it's not fair if they're taking risks they dont even know about! i know you are in a tough situation but the LL hasn't done anything wrong so you shouldn't put them in a bad situation. in your shoes i would be upfront, provide excellent references from previous LLs, employers and your mum as guarantor (has she got good credit?) if they see you are genuinely a good tenant then they might be willing to talk to their mortgage company and see if they can alter the terms. they wont be willing to do you any favours if you lie to them though.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 17:35:42

also, if you think it's hard to find the right house now, try doing it after being evicted and having to tell prospective LLs why. they wont be willing to let to you after hearing that.

weakestlink Mon 26-Nov-12 17:48:20

If the LL has a mortgage it is probably the mortgage lender who does not allow him to rent to tenants on housing benefit. It would also invalidate his buildings insurance so if he did need to make a claim (flood/fire etc) and it was void becuase you had lied I don't know what consequences there would be? Could the LL try to claim damages from you?
I understand it's a shitty situation for you but I would try and find a private landlord who does rent to HB (usually ones with no mortgage!).

As a LL if you did this to me I'd be fuming and would give you notice as soon as I possibly could so you would have to move out. If however you came to me with good references and a guarantor, provided my mortgage lender was ok with it I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

The issue is one of trust - lying up front will automatically label you as untrustworthy, and people won't want you in their property.

Also (I think) puts you in breech of contract, so you cannot rely on the rental contract to protect you.

In short, don't lie.

baabaapinksheep Mon 26-Nov-12 18:13:06

Don't do it!!!

The reason most landlords won't rent to hb claimants is because of a clause in their mortgage agreement.

If you do this and get caught (which you will!) then both you and the ll will be breaking the law!

If you're ok doing something illegal then that's your choice, but don't drag a prospective ll into it.

LynetteScavo Mon 26-Nov-12 18:17:27

Some letting agents have a blanket "no DSS" but at the end of the day, it's at the landlord desecration, and whether it's allowed by their lender.

Don't lie.

You might think your situation is bad now.

If you lie, one way or another at some point you will be found out.

And then you will be in a worse situation with no where to live at all.

Speak to the landlord.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 18:30:12

speak to the LL and be honest. at the same time go into all the local agents and ask them for a list of all the properties available to DHSS tenants. tell them you can provide excellent references and a guarantor, bank statements etc. get friendly with them. check in every friday afternoon and ask them to ring you as soon as new properties within your budget become available.

expatinscotland Mon 26-Nov-12 18:36:25

Try to contact the LL and explain the situation. He/she might be willing to let to you if you have a guarantor.

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 18:48:45

yes this estate agent says no dss on all properties.
i live in a small town and rentals just don't come up that often, when they do they 10-15 applicants.
i think we all know that given other applicants who are not on dss and me, who they are going to choose.
its just they way things work, i don't really blame the landlords.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 18:56:15

ok so imagine trying to get a property after being evicted ffrom this one after lying. you will be making things 10X harder for yourself. you have children to think of, what if you get evicted and find nothing? where will you go? the council may say you have made yourself homeless by lying and refuse to house you.

CelstialNavigation Mon 26-Nov-12 19:22:54

There is a thread on here at the moment where the OP's landlord realised they were on housing benefit after a few years and has asked them to leave, even though the OP had not realised the LL didnt know.

From what many people are saying it invalidates the LL's insurance if his insurance specifies no housing benefit clients so it could put the LL in a very difficult position.

I think you would need to be straight with them for that reason - you may find it is not an insirance situation and they may be willing to consider your application with refernences and guarantor.

It sounds like a horrendous situation you are in atm. Can you talk to Shelter about your current landlords obligations with sorting out the mould until you can move? If you have a health visitor for your youngest, a letter about the conditions you are living in may help with the housing associations.

CelstialNavigation Mon 26-Nov-12 19:23:52

Also I would consider moving areas and speading your search father afield if that is remotely possible

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 19:32:38

my landlord now is very nice but the damp is basically down to the house needing a new roof (my ex is a builder and has had a look) and i don't think they have that kind of money. its not even just the damp. the house is constantly freezing but my bills are huge. there is 7 steps from the path to the house and getting a double buggy up and down is near impossible. also it is just to big for us, the rent is only 400 a month which is why i took it but never thought how much it would cost to heat.
i have considered other areas but i would be taking the kids away from there dad.

Could you tell them you work but claim a minimal amount of hb too? Maybe they would be more accepting of that?

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 26-Nov-12 19:45:05

No do not do it through an estate agents or any one who will do a credit check, you won't get away with it and you will have shelled out £100 to £250 on the credit checks for fuck all.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Mon 26-Nov-12 19:48:26

I am a private tenant, let through an estate agent, also benefit claimant in a property that specified no DSS.

It has never been a problem here. HB is paid to my bank account and I then pay my rent out of that.

We have also had major building work done through LL's insurance claim and it didn't cause any problems.

OP, you sound very similar to me. Victorian house, freezing, wet and condensated windows, damp and mould. It's awful. I say do what you have to to get your kids a decent house.

Good luck.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 19:48:48

if the house has damp then the landlord has no choice but to fix it! if they dont have the money to fix it they dont get to let it out to anyone. it's a health risk. tell LL they need to get it fixed ASAP or you are withholding your rent money. tehy aren't upholding tehir side of the contract.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Mon 26-Nov-12 19:50:17

Oh and for the record I also know someone who was on income support and wanted to private rent. The agent told them in order to do that they needed to pay 6 months up front so it can still be done.

And for the credit check I was asked for wage slips etc. We had to pay a fee for credit check and a fee for admin costs. then a month and a half rent up front as a deposit which we get back should we leave.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Mon 26-Nov-12 19:51:34

Our credit check was only about £50.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 19:55:51

mine was £30

Xiaoxiong Mon 26-Nov-12 20:24:41

I wouldn't do it OP, for all the reasons people say but also if it were me even if it was the nicest house in the world I would never feel secure - I'd always be wondering when the landlord will find out and what will happen.

What I would do is put all your cards on the table, tell them all the things you'll do to set their mind at rest (guarantor, pay a certain amount upfront etc), and see if they have any scope to make an exception. You have nothing to lose by doing that IMO and it might work.

(Just for the record I think it should be illegal for mortgage contracts and insurance policies to specify a blanket ban on housing benefit recipients. I think it's completely unjust and leads to unfair outcomes like the OP's situation. Even if you could plausibly show that HB claimants are more likely to be bad tenants/fail to pay the rent (and I'm not sure how you could possibly say this definitively for every HB recipient everywhere), surely there are just as many non-HB recipients who are bad tenants too and the way insurance and mortgage pools work it should average out in the long run if they were forced to cover everyone.)

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:53:35

lovelybunchcoconuts: did you tell the estate agent you were on benefits?

it is a really unfair system and also puts a lot of people in social housing who are perfectly capable of getting a private rented house. social housing should be for people who really need it and anyone who wants to rent privately should be judged like any other applicant. but it is the way it works so i either work around it or ill be stuck here forever!!

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 21:11:20

obviously the biggest problem with this is the landlord finding out after ive moved in, but how would that ever happen?
i rented of my mum for 2yrs and claimed housing benefit for 8 months, the council knew i was renting from my mum but they never contacted her to check things out.
so i just can't see how he would ever know.
but i think the insurance thing is a valid point, i don't want to cause anyone else trouble.
i think i will say that i do work part time and get tax credits and a small amount of housing benefit and see what they say.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 21:53:56

anything could happen that would mean them finding out!

say there's a HB computer failure and you get no money for a month and cant pay rent. how do you explain that to the LL?

what if Hb change their rules (it's happening soon with UC) and they need LL information/consent for something to happen?

really it is too risky. it's like saying "it'll never happen to me". it always does.

i think that's the best plan, let them know that HB is at least a factor so they know what they are dealing with. good luck OP. i do hope you get this house or one that's even better. it must be awful to be living where you are with very little choice.

bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 22:00:40

thanks! i really hope i get it to!
i could always cover at least a months rent and borrow at least another one so that wouldn't be an issue.
i have a feeling that housing benefit won't change the rules as it isn't in there interest, it would just mean loads of people getting evicted or not being able to find a home who would then become the councils responsibility to rehome.
if i tell them i get a little HB then if something happens i can always tell them my circumstances changed and i had to apply for more help towards my rent.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 22:07:05

i think you need to take a look at universal credit and how it will affect you. HB is being affected and lots of people will be homeless. it's actually quite unbelievable what they are going to be doing and really frightening. i'm terrified TBH.

IAmSoFuckingRock Mon 26-Nov-12 22:09:27

just prepare yourself is all i'm saying so it doesn't come as a complete shock when it happens. the more you know the better prepared you can be smile

bellarose2011 Tue 27-Nov-12 10:19:40

ok, i have read stuff about universal credit but i don't want to terrify myself when, lets face it, it might not happen as they are saying.
what situation are you in rock?
i just don't see how they can make people homeless?
do you know how it will affect a single mum with 2 kids?

bellarose2011 Tue 27-Nov-12 11:08:11

oh god, just starting reading more about universal credit. makes me very depressed. think i would rather not know untill it is actually affecting me.
hopefully by then i will be working anyway.
i really do feel for the people that are trying there best to climb out of poverty and will be hit by this, so unfair.
if it really is as bad as they are saying, surely there will be riots?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 16:02:24

i'm a single mum with 2 children too so in pretty much your shoes except right now i dont work (i wasn't sure if you work part time or if that's just what you are telling LL?)

like you i am trying to get into employment now so that the effect is minimal on me and hopefully so i can stay living where i am.

i know it is very tempting to say i dont want to know and that it wont happen, tehy wont make people homeless etc but this is really happening. what is really scaring me is how few people actually have even heard of UC. no-one i know in RL has even mentioned it and LOTS of them will be affected, massively.

it is very scary and really quite unbeleiveable that they are actually getting away with doing this in 21st century britain but it is happening. they are passing laws on the quiet to get this pushed through.

right now i get income support, child benefit, child tax credits and full housing benefit.

when UC comes in, all benefits (apart from CB AFAIK) and tax credits will be rolled into one and it will all be called UC. basically anyone who isn't working or who is working and earning less than the full time equivalent if minimum wage will be treated like a job seeker. even if you have a part time job doing 20 hours a week you will be expecetd to apply for jobs that pay full time wage and attend interviews, even if thsi means taking time off your paid job and losing that job. if you dont attent the interview or refuse to job search/take a job your UC will be sanctioned. housing benefit will also be only paid for a total of two years for everyone. after that you will have to wait a set period of time (yes to be specified) before you can apply again. so basically every 2 years you could be made homeless unless you have the money hidden somewhere to make up the rest of your rent. lots of people will be homeless and the new system will mean the local councils cannot house them.

if you can in anyway get yourself into a better situation so you are less dependent on benefits then do it. i know how hard that is as i'm trying right now but it's really necessary. the less we need to depend on, the less they can take off us when the time comes. good luck with everything and i hope you get the house.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 16:05:06

yet to be specified

Chandon Tue 27-Nov-12 16:11:36

It is fraud though, especially as it includes a forged wage slip.

I am not a lawyer, but I'd say: be careful, it is fraud.

malinois Tue 27-Nov-12 16:12:35

Do it.

Even if you do get found out later on, what sort of daft landlord would evict a tenant who pays their rent on time and is no trouble? Evicting you would be cutting their nose off to spite their face - why would they want the risk of loss of income from having the property unletted and a new, unproven tenant.

malinois Tue 27-Nov-12 16:17:32

*chandon: don't be daft, of course it's not fraud. There is no intention to make a gain or to cause a loss. The police would have no interest at all and tell you it's a straightforward civil breach of contract.

Chandon Tue 27-Nov-12 16:22:34

are you sure?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 16:28:40

malinois a LL has posted on this thread saying they would evict OP in this situation.

dont tell people to take such risks with their lives unless you are willing to house her yourself when it all goes wrong? this is her home we are talking about.

That LL was me and yes I would give notice as soon as I could so that she would have to move out.

The issue is breach of trust. If someone lies to me from the outset I have to assume that they will lie about other things. Things like sub-letting or keeping pets without permission. When someone lets a property there is a mutual trust that both parties will abide by the contract terms. The tenant would be the first to squeal if I decided to pick and choose which contract terms I would actually abide by, and happily lie to them upfront.

OP don't lie to your LL. You'll end up without a home and without a reference (or a very poor one). At the moment you have a good reference, and that is worth a lot to a LL.

CajaDeLaMemoria Tue 27-Nov-12 17:53:55

I'm 98% sure that this is actually illegal, and that you could be prosecuted. I believe it is Fraud by Misrepresentation, although I've emailed my tutor to enquire.

We studied a case where the woman had done the same. We then watched the trial at a nearby court. It was an odd case because most people could never predict what would happen to the house, but it's worth remembering that things can happen, and false payslips could be a big problem.

Especially if somehow the benefits people got hold of them. Because then you'd find yourself in an interview under caution, trying to explain why payslips exist but you are still claiming benefits.

maisiejoe123 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:05:53

I dont like the sound of this. You receive housing benefit and have been renting off your Mum so what stops you paying next to nothing and then pocketing the difference? Now you are planning to lie about working....

Perhaps you should think about working as opposed to pulling others into this web of lies.

Sorry, but this sort of thing makes me boiling mad

Violet77 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:14:10

Emaise, a bit harsh. She's living in a damp cold house with her children.
I would also be desoerate for a way out. Millions of people can't find work!

I would be honest, you will be forever nervous otherwise. He might take pity on you.

Can you not make your house wamer, insulated curtains, rugs. Curtain off a lounge and keep that room toasty? Seak to your current ll about him painting anti mould paint in your bedrooms.

Sorry for you.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:15:46

i am in NI and on my application for HB you have to tick a box, (either yes or no) answering whether you are related to the landlord, whether you are or ever were in a relationship with the LL, whether the LL is the parent of any of your children and i think something else to do with relationship to LL. is this not the case in wales and england?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:17:18

and yes your LL has a responsibility to repair the roof if it is causing damp in the house. dont let them away with not doing that.

maisiejoe123 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:22:55

Perhaps I was a bit harsh, however the OP has a 3 bed semi detached house and there are just three of them. She gets the HB straight into her account which is open to abuse.

I know next to nothing about HB but what stops someone taking the housing benefit and spending it on something else.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:29:37

having rent to pay stops it maisie. i would have thought that was obvious.

plantsitter Tue 27-Nov-12 18:32:03

'I know next to nothing about HB'... evidently maisiejoe - sounds to me like the OP was paying her mum rent so that would be covered wouldn't it? Also, the thing that stops people taking the housing benefit and spending it on something else is a) having to show the DSS the rental agreement and b) NEEDING THE MONEY FOR A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS.

OP I wouldn't have an ethical problem with this but I wouldn't do it either - too risky, and too difficult to relax in the new house. I would try to talk to the landlord direct.

maisiejoe123 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:34:46

Sorry, but it isnt obvious. She was renting from her Mum at one point. Clearly her HB allows her to rent a 3 bed semi (something a lot of people will have to wait a long time to get to). And she is also thinking of lying, drawing others into her situation and potentially getting a number of people in trouble.

maisiejoe123 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:36:50

But the OP said there were never any checks done when she was renting from her Mum hence her idea to pretend she was working....

FrameyMcFrame Tue 27-Nov-12 18:39:42

baabaapinksheep, what is the clause you speak of in their mortgage?

Graceparkhill Tue 27-Nov-12 18:42:34

My advice would be to firstly try and improve your current house. I have no expertise outside the Scottish system but recommend you contact
Shelter Www.
For some advice on your current property and how to get the landlord to improve and maintain the property .

Secondly and I am saying this very loudly please do not lie to the landlord of the new property.

If his lender allows him to accept tenants on benefits then you need to convince him you are reliable, trustworthy and a good long term tenant.

I would speak to him and if possible provide character references from people who know you. Go direct to him( or her) not through the agent.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:46:02

well i know in NI that regular checks are carried out. i was constantly having to produce my last 2 months banks statements and X amount of payslips plus tax credit award. my employer regularly had to fill in and sign a certificate of employment incuding the hours i worked and the wage i was paid for this work. as far as the LL was concerned they had to fill in part of the application detailing the type of house, number of rooms, facilities included in the rental price, the age of the house, the rental and rates cost, confirm that they had some sort of building guarantee and lots of other stuff.

FrameyMcFrame Tue 27-Nov-12 18:47:49

Op do it. People on benefits would never get homes in the private rental sector if they took any notice of 'no DHSS' in ads. And then where would we be as there is fuck all social housing.
It is not fraud, are you on tax credits or income support? Tax credits aren't actually administered by the DHSS so screw them. It's discrimination anyway.

I have been where you are now as a single parent with babies and no way of getting back in to work. Do what you need to protect your kids and take no notice of the baying mob...
Things will improve as they get older and you're more able to get out and find work and get back in to normal life. I've got a mortgage and full time job and I never thought I'd get those things.
Hope you get your new house op

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:54:38

"Do what you need to protect your kids "

framey by lying to a LL to get a house OP could actually be putting her dcs in a very vulnerable position. far moreso than they are now! i cant believe you (and the others encouraging this) are actully telling someone to take such a massive risk. if she does this and gets the 'wrong' LL (in other words one who doesn't just shrug their shoulders and ignore it) she could end up making her children homeless. never mind that it could cause problems for the LL and the friend who is pretending to employ her and forging payslips. OP could also end up facing a benefit cut and having to pay loads back if the benefits agency question why she was 'working' but not declaring it to them.

you are giving really shit advice TBH.

OP protect yourself and your DCs. lying to secure a home is not protecting them. it's making them more vulnerable. you already know how hard it is to find a house. being found out on this would make it ten times harder.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:56:40

framey she is in receipt of housing benefit. that comes from DHSS so she cant exactly 'screw them' hmm

Graceparkhill Tue 27-Nov-12 19:07:19

Just for clarity- Housing Benefit only applies to tenants of social landlords( council/ housing association)

Private sector tenants can apply for Local Housing Allowance which is administered by the local council.

LHA rates are set and publicised on council websites. If landlord charges above the LHA rate then the tenant can pay a top up( if this is affordable )
OP - do you know if new landlord's rent is within LHA limits?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 19:10:07

not in NI grace. HB is paid to private rental tenants here. OP is in wales. not sure what the ruels are there though.

Graceparkhill Tue 27-Nov-12 19:12:44

Got my info from Shelter Wales website!

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 19:23:13


Tobermory Tue 27-Nov-12 20:16:42

DH is in insurance and has provided a comprehensive technical summary. I will try to explain thus;
For insurance a dss tenant is one that is referred by social services who may then also meet the rent bills on behalf of the tenant. Someone would be a dss tenant because the tenancy agreement has been made between the landlord and the dss on your behalf. .

If the contract is made between the tenant and the landlord the contract is known as a private rental. You may well be in employment and then lose your job, but this wouldn't effect the landlord insurance because the contract is a direct agreement between the landlord and the tenant.By the sounds of it, from an insurance point of view you are not DSS and so the LL insurance would not be affected.

Try and contact him direct and state your case - he may be desperate for a good tenant to pay his mortgage and insurance which is more expensive when the property is empty! Offer guarantees or find somewhere else. Be careful of declaring employment though, what if social services found out , could you lose benefits?

Graceparkhill Tue 27-Nov-12 20:30:29

Dude- sorry didn't mean to sound abrupt. I work in housing advice and it worries/ frustrates me when I see people being given well meant but inaccurate info.

Loads of wrong/ misleading info on this thread now.

DHSS and DSS disappeared years ago. Welfare Benefits now dealt with by DWP.

Housing benefit/ local housing allowance currently administered by local govt.

Issue with private landlords not renting to people on benefits is an issue with mortgage lender not ( generally ) insurance cover.
You need to seek permission from lender to let property to someone on benefits and some lenders have refused.

You will always get some insurer,somewhere to cover a risk. The greater the risk the higher the premium. Failure to disclose will result in cover being invalid.

Nothing whatsoever to do with social services either.

Some local authorities ( only speaking for Scotland now) have leasing arrangements with private landlords to make properties available to homeless families ( they may or may not be in receipt of benefits;they may or may not have social services involvement ).

Anyway if OP is still around my advice still stands- contact Shelter for housing advice and do not consider giving false info to prospective landlord.

Sermon endeth.

FrameyMcFrame Tue 27-Nov-12 21:02:16

Grace, tax credits are not DWP they are Inland Revenue, the ad states no DHS anyway.

DudeIamso Working people are also entitled to housing benefit too you know! (Or housing alowence whatever)
Would those people who work but earn a low income be also discriminated agains by this blanket ban on 'DHSS'???

Op I'll pm you, the people on this thread don't live in the real world.

stella1w Tue 27-Nov-12 21:08:08

I would write a letter to the landlord explaining the situation, offering your mum as guarantor, pointing out that as you are on benefits your imcome is more secure in a way than someone in a job and promise not to let the kids damage the house

FrameyMcFrame Tue 27-Nov-12 21:17:11

Anyway, soon these discriminatory ads stating 'no DSS' will become illegal because it is prejudiced against disabled people who may be on benefits or indeed older people who may be on pension credit etc.

Not to mention prejudiced against single Mothers who have little choice about being on benefits if they want to look after their own babies.

It makes me angry angry angry

baabaapinksheep Tue 27-Nov-12 21:30:57

Frame - that is what my estate agent told me when I asked why a lot of landlords won't take tenants on hb.

You are also being hugely irresponsible by encouraging someone to do something illegal.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 21:35:41

"DudeIamso Working people are also entitled to housing benefit too you know!"

i know i worked while i received HB! as for not living in the real world i have already told OP my circumstnaces which are pretty close to hers. i am very much in the real world.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 21:39:27

framey you are being incredibly naive if you think people posting here are posting from some ivory tower and have no clue what the reality of OP's situation is. people are posting because they know exactly what the reality is and what risks she would be taking by doing as you are encouraging her to do. i do wonder whether you would be quite so keen to encourage if it was you in this situation risking homelessness for your children. you seem very vocal when it's someone else's children.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 21:40:45

OP be careful about what advice you take and back up whatever decision you make with facts and not just by the chip on someone else's shoulder.

Graceparkhill Tue 27-Nov-12 22:26:48

Sorry missed the bit about Working Tax Credits- didn't realise OP was receiving them.

You are right WTC administered by HMRC. The whole system is complex and there are variations within the UK - all the more reason to get proper advice from a qualified source. Did I mention Shelter?

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 08:45:46

thanks for all the advice everyone.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE ONE THING CLEAR, WHEN I RENTED OFF MY MUM WE PUT IT ALL IN THE FORM THAT THE LANDLORD WAS MY MOTHER. NO LIES WERE INVOLVED. i was just surprised at the time that they didn't do any digging to find out what the situation was. and of course my mum received every penny of the HB and extra added on.
also yes i have a 3 bed detached house, the rent is 400 a month because its a dump. and i pay 70 a month towards the rent.
i have no idea how anyone can think you could claim housing benefit and keep it, you would have to have a full time job on the side.
my plan is to say that i work part time, get working tax credits and a small amount of housing benefit. therefor if it is a problem with there insurance we they will know about it. i am not going to use any fake wage slips.

for anyone who thinks that im wrong ive decided i don't care. do the all the MP's give a fuck when there lying to employ there family members in jobs that don't exist and the wages are paid by the taxpayer. do they care when they are passing laws that mean that children living in poverty are going to loose there free school meals and go hungry whiles there earning there massive salaries and living off expense accounts. wake up people, the government is screwing you and using people on benefits as scapegoats to stop the light shining on them!!!

rant over!!!!

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 09:50:59

bella as much as i agree with you that the MP's get away with fucking murder and i hate it, believe me, that will get you nowhere when you are sitting on the street with your children after being evicted. it really doesn't benefit your situation at all the fact that other people are also doing dodgy moves.

however as i said earlier in the thread, as long as you mention that you are recieving HB then you are being honest with them. i'm glad you aren't going to fake wageslips or anything that could get you or your friend in trouble too.

again, good luck.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 10:03:10

p.s i couldn't have paid my mum a tiny amount of rent and kept the rest of the housing benefit as she had a mortgage to pay that was higher than the housing benefit i recieved.
sorry if the above post sound a bit angry but it just winds me up when people make out that anyone on benefits is bound to be scamming in some way.
most people on benefits don't want to be, life doesn't always turn out how we wanted it to and we are very lucky to live in a country where we have benefits for when we really need them.
and i also agree with some of the benefit reforms, like the cap on benefits at 3 children (i think) no child should be born just because there mum wants more benefit money. although of course for peolple that already have big families and are out of work this would be so hard.
its all very complex and i don't see how they can make it fair for everyone.

expatinscotland Wed 28-Nov-12 15:30:17

How are you going to fake working part-time with no wage slips? They'll check, you know.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 18:05:32

ive spoke to a few people who have had houses through this agency and they just ring your boss.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Wed 28-Nov-12 18:16:07

You have to provide wage slips for the credit check tho.

I was all for you going for it OP but the more I think about it the more I think it's a bad idea to lie. Just be honest, say you have a guarantor and see what happens.

You can't be claiming benefits and lie about working as it'll catch up with you and DWP/HMRC will question why you're claiming to work and not declare it. You don't know what checks these people do behind closed doors.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 18:25:06

to be honest ive come to the conclusion that they want us to think that they are checking up on every detail of your life but the truth is an estate agent has no more right to check up on me than anyone else does. they just want to talk to your boss, currant LL and a character reference. only on of these is fake.
they do a credit check that any member of the public can do if you give them the right infomation.
its a different story with a bank if you were applying for a loan, they have much more power to look into your life.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 18:25:58

i have asked them about any documents they need and they said none,

You cannot predict what they are going to ask for.
You cannot predict what they might ask for a year down the line.
You just cannot be a hundred percent sure.
You will be living in this house knowing that at any minute someone could knock on the door and catch you out.
How are you going to enjoy living in your house like that?
I couldn't.

When me and DH were made redundant and we lost our house, we saw several houses that we loved but the LL didn't take housing benefit. We just had to go with what was available.

IWipeArses Wed 28-Nov-12 18:30:10

I can imagine how desperate you must feel in a damp house, we had a very mouldy, freezing house before and it was just miserable.

I don't think it's worth it to risk lying to the landlord though. Your references will be fucked in the future if they find out, then you'll be out of options and out on your ear.

Speak to current landlord about fixing the house up, if they won't then ring environmental health. Is there a current gas safety certificate? Could be the boiler needs replacing.

FrameyMcFrame Wed 28-Nov-12 18:49:39

.... I do speak from experience unfortunately.

The worst that can happen is that they will refuse her application for tennancy as she doesn't pass the checks but if she can offer a guarentor then I expect they'll accept her as a tennant even so.

As for being evicted because of being in receipt of housing benefit, how will they ever find out if the rent is paid every month?

Even if they did I doubt there will be a clause in the contract stating 'we can evict you if we find out you claim housing benefit'. Think it through a bit please.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 18:49:47

unfortanatley were i live it isn't an option to wait for a house that does accept DHSS, there are no rentals. a few come up a month and they are all no DHSS and out of my price range.
i have just had a gas safety check here and boiler is fine just old and running at about 40% effeiancy. so 40% of my bill are going up the chimney as the gas man puti have decided to go for it and hope for the best. im not the type of person to sit there worrying about a knock at the door. if it happens i will deal with it.
i have family so me and my kids would never be homeless.
unfortunatley i am in a position of needing to take some risks to improve my life a bit.
yes there is something very depressing about living in a damp cold house, i don;t feel like i can't really move on and starting sorting out what i am going to do with my life untill i have a decent place to live.
i want my kids to have a garden, they deserve to be able to go out and play when they want.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 18:50:52

my mum or aunty are happy to be gaurantors,

BeehavingBaby Wed 28-Nov-12 18:52:16

We have rented for years and for the last 4 no-one has wanted a reference from a previous landlord not that anyone can buy a credit check. Have had to prove income though. If you think you have all bases covered and they are using a proper deposit holding service I say go for it.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 18:57:25

framey believe me i have thought it through plenty. it is you that is not thinking here.

i really dont know how you can say with any confidence "how will they ever find out"

do you have a crystal ball?

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 18:58:29

yes i have done research, i could ring up the same company that theses estate agents are using, say i am a private landlord and get a credit check on anyone.
i would just need name, DOB, addresses and account number and sort code.
they are just checking that you havn't got county court judgements or been declared bankrupt.

FrameyMcFrame Wed 28-Nov-12 18:58:49

How do you suggest they'll find out Dude?

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 18:59:09

beebaby, what proof of income were you asked for?

expatinscotland Wed 28-Nov-12 19:00:13

Wow, who is this agent? I need one who doesn't do a bunch of checks grin.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 19:04:50

i gave a few examples upthread framey.

Are you entirely sure they aren't going to ask for wage slips?

What if your "pretend" employer slips up?

Basically it's fraud isn't it? Because you are lying about your employment status.

You can't just say "if it happens I'll deal with it"

You are putting your family at a risk of being evicted, and yes you can be evicted for breach of tenancy agreement.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 19:06:03

and as i have also already told you a LL on this thread has said twice that they would indeed evict the OP if they found out she had lied to get the house.

FrameyMcFrame Wed 28-Nov-12 19:11:35

Better to just say you're self employed and then offer a guarantor.

It's not fraud, look up the definition of fraud on Google.

I don't any landlord can just decide to evict someone if they find out they are on benefits. A contract is signed which is legally binding, unless there is a clause in the contract which states 'you can be evicted for being in reciept of housing benefit' then it is illegal to just evict someone on a whim.

Yes, op it would be a very real possibility.

I can't believe there are people advising you to commit fraud.

It's ridiculous.

Sorry, but either tell the LL the truth, or concentrate on fixing up your current home, the LL will have certain legal obligations, repairs they have to do.

There are many ways you could get caught out, can't you see that? You can't bury your head in the sand when you are being evicted.

FrameyMcFrame Wed 28-Nov-12 19:11:50


framey it's breach of tenancy, no?

The op gave false information to obtain the property.

FrameyMcFrame Wed 28-Nov-12 19:12:40


try finding out what fraud means first before you accuse people of trying to commit it!!!

1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

Definition of fraud.

So lying about working in order to obtain a house is deliberatley practicing deception.

What's your point?

bellarose if you want to take some risks to improve your life, and feel your kids deserve a garden great, now do the decent thing, go to the landlord, explain your situation, provide a good reference and a guarantor, and take your chances with everyone else.

Why lie? What does that teach your kids? Why lay yourself open to action for misrepresentation, eviction, and being black marked. If you do lie and get caught out don't expect sympathy from anyone, and don't expect any decent LL to touch you with a barge pole going forward.

For what its worth if you came to me and were honest, I'd take a chance on you and give you a 6 month let, with possible renewal if we were both happy. If you lied to me you'd be out.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 19:32:19

oh btw and this has just come back to me or i would have mentioned it earlier. when i was house searching earlier this year when i was arranging to view the first house i saw i asked the agent if it was a problem that i was on HB. they said that they dont discriminate and that all applications are forwarded on to the LL. and when i think about it now, none of the agent advertised properties specified no DHSS. it's worth checking with the agent whether it really does discriminate or not.

To answer something earlier in the thread, a LL has the right to end an assured short hold tenancy on various grounds.

Ground 17 - This final ground was introduced by the Housing Act 1996 and covers cases where the tenancy has been created as a result of a false statement knowingly having been made by the tenant or someone acting on his behalf. It is worth noting here the importance of a Tenancy Application which seeks factual information from the tenant.

So if you lie to a LL to obtain the tenancy they can give you notice to move out.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:13:33

yes i agree that if the landlord wanted to they could legally evict me, i personally think there is a good chance they wouldn't if they rent was paid and i had proved myself a good tenant.
i don't understand why you say no LL would ever touch me again, clearly im not going to start my application saying i was once eveicted for lying! people all over the country lie every single day to get jobs, mortgages, rent houses.
its incredibly naive to think otherwise. people paint the best picture of themselves and leave out stuff they don't want people to know.

also i am going to say that i recieve a small amount of HB so if it is an insurance problem they will know about it.
so i am only going to lie about working a few hours a week, i think everyone is blowing it out of proportion.
like i say people tell lies like this evey day!

cowardlylionhere Wed 28-Nov-12 20:18:44

Honestly, I think you'd be best to tell the truth. There will be other houses. I was in a similar situation, in a teeny house that was damp and wanted to move closer to my family. I saw a beautiful house, within budget, and just emailed the landlord to explain my situation, that being that I was on income support since being made redundant and my partner leaving, so it was me and 3 dc. I, like you, could provide excellent references from my landlord. They called me up and told me they just 'knew' I was the right tenant which was lovely t ohear. The fact that I'd been honest counted in my favour (that and my posh accent truth be told wink). If you lie, it will bite you in the bum. I have only been here 2.5 weeks and I feel safe and secure, a feeling that comes with being transparent. If I was worried my landlord or the council were about to knock on my door and ask questions, then I'd be living on edge. Even in the nicest house in the world, that's no way to live. I am massively hmm that they never questioned HB being paid to your mum. You might want to be careful that when they renew your claim for the new place they don't notice that and ask some questions.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:21:33

"clearly im not going to start my application saying i was once eveicted for lying!"

are you forgetting that you have to provide a reference from your current or most recent LL when applying for a new house?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:23:04

and you are the one saying there are NO houses in your area, even less for those on HB unless you would be intending to lie to the next prospective LL after being evicted?

FrameyMcFrame Wed 28-Nov-12 20:25:54

If she pays the rent on time and is a good tenant why would any Land Lord evict her just for claiming housing benefit though?

They'd have to be pretty prejudiced against 'DSS' to do that

expatinscotland Wed 28-Nov-12 20:26:03

Can you go back to renting from your mum?

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:26:08

im not going to think that far ahead, it is like planning step by step what you would do if you were in a car crash. it is very unlikely that they would ever find out?
also if they did i could say that i lost my job after i moved in and hadn't lied, how would they ever know otherwise?

expatinscotland Wed 28-Nov-12 20:26:46

'If she pays the rent on time and is a good tenant why would any Land Lord evict her just for claiming housing benefit though?

They'd have to be pretty prejudiced against 'DSS' to do that '

Because they can get one who doesn't.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:27:04

no my mum coverted her house and it is now huge and far to big and expensive for us.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:28:33

" i personally think there is a good chance they wouldn't if they rent was paid and i had proved myself a good tenant. "

unless you know the LL personally you have no way of knowing this. you cant base such a massive decision like this on the hope that your LL will be 'nice'. alot of LL are business people and dont take kindly to being lied to. i think you are being very naive to think you will just be 'let off'.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:29:14

yes they could get one taht doesn't but it they would loose rent, have to pay estate agent fees.
my mum has been a landlord for 20yrs and she would do anything to keep hold of a good tenant.

expatinscotland Wed 28-Nov-12 20:29:17

How about moving back in with her then, since you said you'd never be homeless and could move in with family. Then, you can try getting a real part-time job and be able to rent without having to lie.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:30:24

framey it wouldn't be for being on housing benefit that they would evict her. it would be for lying.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:32:19

the landlord showed me around, he was a nice young bloke who had bought the house when he lived there then moved when he had a family.
i am willing to take a risk on him being a decent enough human being to not kick a woman out with 2 kids over something so trivial.
and i would never expect any sympathy from anyone, this is my choice and i can cope with any outcome.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:34:22

they're all nice when they want you to give them money!

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:34:40

i could move in with her if i was homeless, i can't move in with her because i fancy a bit of a break so i can look for a job.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:35:49

one made buns for when i came to view a house last year! she wasn't making me any buns when i needed her to come round and fix the leaking toilet!

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:35:54

true, they are also generally nice when they know they can rely on you for money every month and to look after there house!!

expatinscotland Wed 28-Nov-12 20:37:29

'i could move in with her if i was homeless, i can't move in with her because i fancy a bit of a break so i can look for a job.'

Fancy a bit of a break to look for a job? Bella, you need to face facts here, being entirely reliant on benefits is going to very quickly become a thing of the past.

I don't understand how if you explained to her the situation your kids are living in and that you wanted to move back so you could better their lives and be able to rent a place without having to lie that she wouldn't be up for that?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:37:58

nope, not true. they are just unbothered.

expatinscotland Wed 28-Nov-12 20:41:28

I don't own property, we rent ourselves, but if I did and found out my tenant lied on the app, I'd serve notice on them. Sorry, I would, kids and all. I'd be furious and honestly, if they lie on the app, no telling what else they're lying about.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:43:24

I have always had nice landlords so maybe ive just been lucky.
if i asked my mum yes she would let me move in but it would be a strain on us all and she has her own life.
i have no intention of being reliant on benefits for long but i have a 10 month old and will not dump her in a nursery just for money.
i would rather take the risk of lying to this landlord than have my baby looked after by strangers. i have no family who could help with childcare as they work.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:44:20

i can't believe so many poeple would be so outraged by this, have none of you ever lied in a job interview?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:45:17

nope. i haven't.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:45:47

can't believe how time flies when your on MN, got far to much housework to do now!!

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:46:54

seriously? you have never told i lie to get something that you want/need?

cowardlylionhere Wed 28-Nov-12 20:48:45

It's not a little white lie though. You're implicating your friend in this too, in a very calculated manner. To lie and say she's your boss, there could be repercussions for her too. Tell the truth. If the landlord says no then you'll know that you'd have been in trouble when he found out your lie anyway. If he says yes, then you've done the right thing.

expatinscotland Wed 28-Nov-12 20:48:49

'i have no intention of being reliant on benefits for long but i have a 10 month old and will not dump her in a nursery just for money.
i would rather take the risk of lying to this landlord than have my baby looked after by strangers. i have no family who could help with childcare as they work.'

This is why all of us are being penalised by benefits cuts and UC. This is why it will very very soon not be a choice, because there are some people who think they are above putting their child into nursery (dumping them with strangers for money) and so others should pay for them to sit at home and their own childcare fees, too. Thanks for that! Because of attitudes like this, every single one of us will be penalised.

Hey, go ahead and do it. When you get caught and thrown out, it's your lookout.

Graceparkhill Wed 28-Nov-12 20:48:51

I am not outraged - just concerned that you might worsen your situation.

I understand the temptation to lie but honestly think for your peace of mind you should be above board in all your dealings with the benefits system.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:49:08

bella people are just trying to let you know how much of a risk you are taking. it isn't so much outrage at the lying, it's the fact that lying puts you in such a vulnerable position and at the mercy of a LL who may or may not decide to put you out. which legally they can do.

if you accept that that is a very likely consequence then go ahead but go with your eyes open and be prepared throughout your time in the house for that to happen. you say you wnat to be able to make a home and cant where you live now, well how comfortable would you be able or willing to make your new home knowing that at any point you could be made to leave and possibly sell all your stuff if you have to move in with your mum or be housed in temporary accomodation by the council (think B&B)

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:50:56

"you have never told i lie to get something that you want/need? "

yes i was a child once you know grin

but seriously this isn't like lying about your child's age to get into the cinema for less. this is your home!

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:53:04

there is such a thing as wanting something too much bella. why is this house so important. is it the house or is it just the first one that's come up and you want out of your own ASAP?

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:53:41

the council here doesn't use bnb. they have a block of flats for mother and children. my friend had one once and it was fine for a short time.
im just thinking about it now and my current LL doesn't know i claim housing benefit, she never asked, i never told. don't know how she would feel about it.
so i am living in the same situation now i just didn't pretend to have a job to get this house. she probably didn't ask because its a shit hole!

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:56:18

i have been looking for about 8 months and this is the first one to come up in the area i need, in my price range and that i would feel safe in. there are a lot of houses here on there own and i would be to scared to live in one!
yes if i don't get this i will be devastated.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:57:08

and i just want to be warm and to be able to put my kids to bed without 3 layers and blankets on!

Graceparkhill Wed 28-Nov-12 20:59:45

I don't want to be bossy but I think you really need to do something about your current property. Your landlord has responsibilities to you and I think you should seek legal advice about having the property repaired and maintained

Bella people will be nicer to you if you have the decency to be honest to them. If you lie to them, well they probably will play by the book. One of my tenants lost his job, but he came to me and told me, so we talked about it and I gave him a rent reduction and whilst he sorted himself out. Another couple were moving abroad and were unable to get a fixed moving date so I allowed them to stay on a monthly basis rather than tying them to another 6 month let. I was 'nice' because they were 'nice', i.e. honest. Lie if you must - it won't do you any favours in the long term. LL are businesses - they look after tenants who look after them. If they feel you are taking advantage they will find someone else.

As I said before, I would probably let to you if you were honest and we came to an agreement. I wouldn't if you lied. I'll get off your thread now. Your attitude is winding me up.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 21:04:17

well you have been given lots of fantastic advice, including some from a landlord, so you know what risks you are taking. it's you who is taking the risk so only you can decide whether to do it or not.

i'm going to bow out now because i dont think you are going to change your mind. good luck OP. i really hope we dont see you back here asking how to pack up your belongings in the space of a week with 2 dcs hanging round your feet.

tittytittyhanghang Wed 28-Nov-12 21:07:49

op if I were in your position i would consider lying, i really would. But if it is just the work side of things that is letting you down have you thought about doing something like avon/bodyshop/ann summers just to be able to say that you are self employed? Even if it were just to get into the house, and then revert back to being unemployed once you got the house. Even if technically you make next to nothing, you would still get all the tax credits and full hb. (Im assuming that dss just mean people that are not working, not people who are working but in receipt of housing benefit or is this wrong?).

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 21:11:06

in my neck of the woods "no DHSS" means no applications from people who get HB. not sure what that means elsewhere.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 28-Nov-12 21:11:55

ok i'm really away now. loads to do!

Brycie Wed 28-Nov-12 21:12:46

Don't do it.

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 21:12:47

thanks for advice dude and worcs, your points are valid i just feel i have no choice.
titty' that is a very interesting idea. i will look into asap. how much a year is ti possible to earn with avon ect?
they want you to be earning 2.5 times the rent.

bigkidsdidit Wed 28-Nov-12 21:13:19

I'm not sure about your dilemma but just thought I'd say I've been renting for 13 years now in loads of houses as a perpetual student, and never once have I been asked for a wage slip

Perhaps because my dad is my guarantor?

bellarose2011 Wed 28-Nov-12 21:14:00

ye im not 100% sure what they mean by no DHSS but i know tax credits is ok because i asked the estate agents.

Brycie Wed 28-Nov-12 21:14:29

You are not giving the landlord a choice either.

bigkidsdidit Wed 28-Nov-12 21:16:16

Hum. Just seen your comment about dumping a 10mo with strangers and I take back my comment, seeing as I dumped my six mo with a CM so I could pay my rent

As you were

FrameyMcFrame Wed 28-Nov-12 21:40:37

Dude, no one can be given a week to 'pack up their belongings' whether they are on housing benefit or deciding not to disclose this information or not.

I'm sure you know this though, you seem so knowledgeable about the whole thing... hmm

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 11:12:48

bigkids, really didn't mean to offend anyone. that is just how i feel, i just wouldn't trust anyone to look after my baby.
i have lots of freind who's babies have been in nursery from 3 month, i don't judge. it's a personel choice.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Thu 29-Nov-12 13:22:21

In my neck of the woods "no DSS" means people on unemployed benefits such as income support or JSA.

baabaapinksheep Thu 29-Nov-12 14:16:22

sorry if the above post sound a bit angry but it just winds me up when people make out that anyone on benefits is bound to be scamming in some way - Says the woman who is about to lie and commit fraud to get what she wants!

It's not just a case of the ll being pissed off that you lied about receiving hb, if it invalidates their insurance or contradicts their mortgage terms then do you really think they would let you stay??!!!!

baabaapinksheep Thu 29-Nov-12 14:19:59

I think we need to clarify whether OP means no DSS or no HB, they are different. DSS is issued by the Department of Social Security, HB is issued by local councils. A ad saying no DSS does not necessarily mean no HB, nor does it mean no Tax Credit claiments.

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 14:33:43

baabaa it generally does mean no Housing Benefit/Local Housing Allowance and no unemployed people, it's just that a lot of landlords don't know the different.

baabaapinksheep Thu 29-Nov-12 14:37:42

Ignore me, didn't realise the OP claims benefits.

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 17:20:03

also i have stated that i am going to say that i claim a small amount of HB si if it is an insurance problem they will know.
i am only lying about having a part time job.
im telling them about tax credits, child benefit and HB

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 17:22:30

i am only lying about having a part time job.'

And that you are not getting a 'small amount' of HB, but full whack because you are not working.

Oh well, if that's all you are lying about..........

Seriously get a grip on reality. You do not work. But you are going to pretend that you do in order to rent a house.

That's it. You can't dress it up to make it sound ok.

It's fraud.

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 17:29:01

'it's a personel choice.'

No, it isn't for people who have to pay their rent on their own.

XandaPanda Thu 29-Nov-12 17:38:45

Your landlord doesnt need to know where the rent comes from as long as he gets paid.
A lot of people do it this way as its sometimes the only option & there is no way your landlord can find out as without your permission nobody can tell him (as in housing etc)

Brycie Thu 29-Nov-12 17:39:13

He does need to know as it may be breaking the terms of his mortgage.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Thu 29-Nov-12 17:39:24

Here is a novel idea:

How about actually actively seeking work instead of pretending to work to rent privately, lie, and be on benefits too?

If you live rural, without a job, and with little choice in houses on the rental market, why not move? It is not like you have a job that keeps you there?

Yes. Move, get a job, whatever you need to do.

quint is right.

Why don't you? Oh sorry because you don't want to "dump your baby in childcare if you don't have to.

Well, you either have to, or carry on living where you are now.

The answer to your problem is not lying.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Thu 29-Nov-12 17:45:28

It always amazes me how many people think the world/government owes them something. A home, free money every month. Because THEY dont want to use childcare, THEY dont want to work. Rather lie and deceive instead of taking responsibility.

How nice it would be to spend my days sitting around being a mum and keep house, go for coffee, living somewhere nice and rural, while all sorts of benefits were just transferred into my account. Because "I dont want to work. I dont think it is right for MY child to be in nursery". etc. hmm

Grown adults who wants the government to baby them. Pah!

quint exactly.

I wasnt exactly over the moon about using full time childcare with my first dc but we couldn't afford to live on one salary.

When DH and I were made redundant we struggled like mad, we worked 5 jobs between us to get back on our feet.
We lived in a house we didn't really like because it took housing benefit.
It's that simple.

Brycie Thu 29-Nov-12 18:09:58

I agree with you too quint. Not just grown adults but parents, who should be gaining some maturity and responsibility when they become parents.

The OP shouldn't have the problems in the property she's in - they need sorting out. There are options, sorting the problems out with the landlord, seeking redress through the local authority, CAB, moving to a new area, finding work. Or lying and disadvantaging someone else.

Think about it OP, just look at the choices you are making for your family.

The benefits system is there to help if you are in need. If you honestly think there's no other option for you, you have to accept that and live according to that.

If that means chasing up your landlord or whatever to make the house nice, do it.
If it means moving to an area that does accept HB, do that.

You aren't in a unique situation.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Thu 29-Nov-12 18:14:28

The welfare state was never meant to be a life style choice, but a stop gap measure to help people who had fallen on hard times, not to keep them in that position.

The problem is that you choose to live like this OP.
you make the choice not to go to work, because it is a choice right now.
And then complain that you can't get a nice house.
And use that as a justification to lie, and possibly invalidate your LL insurance.
Surely you can see that's not right.

If you want a better life, I'm afraid you'll have to do what the rest of us do, go and work for it.
You can't expect anything else.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Thu 29-Nov-12 18:25:45

Do your children enjoy having damp cold rooms and sleep breathing the spores of mold?

"there is mold growing on the kids bedroom wall."

This is the life choice you have chosen for your children.

I suggest you educate yourself.
Mould in the home fact sheet

your babys environment - mold

Health effects of mold in the house

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 19:06:25

Blimey, when I first joined this thread I thought I was being a bit harsh and said so, however it is becoming clear that the OP has a sense of entitlement.
Have a 3 bed house, dont work, but also expect a house (not a flat a HOUSE) in a nice area, that is easy to keep!

Dont we all want this. The problem is she wants US to pay for it due to her lifestyle choices!

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 19:17:15

If there aren't many houses available in the area, though, chances are someone will apply who doesn't need HB at all.

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 20:26:36

i was wondering how long it would take for the benefit bashers to start.the insurance is not an issue as im am saying i get HB.
and it's funny how you say im looking for a 'house in a nice area' can you show me where i have said that?

you know nothing about my life or my situation.
i didn't choose a 'lifestyle'
i had 2 kids with a man i loved and had been with for 6yrs. we had both worked full time most of our lives.
after having kids he turned into an alcoholic violent bully.
i left with a newborn and toddler, and yes i decided i wanted to stay at home with them for a while. big deal, you all really need to get out more into the real world.
there seems to be a playground bully mentality on MN and its pathetic.

i suppose if i had been born with a silver spoon in my mouth i would never have to tell a lie, but in the real world you do.

sorry to disapoint ladies but you won't intimidate or upset me!!

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 20:27:19

and yes mold grows on the wall but i scrub it off with bleach so there are no spores

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 20:40:52

You are right we dont know anything about your life, however YOU have made choices. You want to stay at home with them, you want a nice house, you dont want to work, you dont want to move away from the area.

Well, I am sorry but some of those things will have to be given up if you want the lifestyle you crave. Most of us work to achieve those things children or not. And no many of us were not born with a silver spoon, we worked damm hard, made choices and took responsibility for them.

And I feel it is you that are in the dream world. Thinking that the world owes you a living, that you are entitled to things that others just dream about. So, go on tells lies, pretend you are working to get your house at our cost but I suspect it will all come crashing down.

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 20:42:36

The OPs baby is 10months old, she is entitled to stay at home till said baby is 5 without having to look for work. She's not doing anything wrong and if you don't like the law become a politician and change it.

OP if you lie and end up being kicked out how will you feel knowing because you lied your dc don't have a home. It is morally wrong to lie and you won't get away with it like a cv. If your going to stay on ISA for a while then find a 2bed flat that accepts dss as once the universal credits come in you will be even more poor paying an 14% spare bedroom allowence.

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 20:45:59

i don't really see it as a choice, how could you possibly get up every day and leave a baby with strangers? its not an option to me.
after 1 i would but a baby needs her mum.
i always planned to stay at home with my kids i just didn't plan to be a single mum.
and the house i want is half the size of the one im in now, it is nothing special. it is not in a nice area.
im not looking to upgrade, im trying to downgrade. its tiny so the bills will be cheap, is that really out of order to want that?

I'm sorry you were in a bad relationship. I'm very glad you got out.
but when you say that you decided to stay at home with them for a while, you made that decision knowing you would be reliant on benefits.
And you choose to stay on benefits.

So, now you want a better life. So you are going to have to decide if you are going to do what most of us do, go to work, get off the benefit system and make a better life, or continue as you are.
If you choose to continue as you are, then you cannot possibly complain about your lifestyle because you chose it.

Don't you think there are a lot of parents who want to stay at home for a while? Who have been in bad relationships?

It's all about choice. Your choice is to stay at home and receive benefits. So live like that but don't complain you can't get a better house and lie.

Op if there was no benefit system you would have to "leave your baby with strangers" wouldn't you?

Yes, you are entitled not to l

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 20:49:26

'The OPs baby is 10months old, she is entitled to stay at home till said baby is 5 without having to look for work. She's not doing anything wrong and if you don't like the law become a politician and change it.'

I agree, InNeed. Lying to get the nice house and all that, if it comes to pass, and again it probably won't because in most situations like this, someone else trots up who doesn't need HB at all and the landlord will chose them, isn't on because by law, the landlord can serve that tenant notice.

bella, comments like 'dumping my child with strangers' really aren't going to endear you to the working poor, many of whom had to put their children in childcare to pay for themselves and their children in life. Because I know several of those who posted on here personally, and none of them were born with silver spoons in their mouths. In fact, one was completely fucked over by a tenant who lied.

You seem defensive and pissed off with people who point out that doing this can get you evicted, even though it can.

But if I were that person who really was working and relying on partial HB and telling the truth on my application, and found out you lied and got that house over me, I wouldn't hesitate to grass you up in a second. And don't think that, in a rural community, that won't happen.

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 20:52:37

OP if it's because of leaving your baby why don't you try and find work in a nursery, you usually get a set hours of free childcare and your dc would be about.

Can your mum not help?

I have had a few periods of being on income support with 2 young children, for me personally I like working so I acn take my dc on holiday and have money for extras but I realise I was lucky to have a nan who covered my child care.

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 20:52:44

To be honest you are insulting all the working mothers who go out to provide for their children. And it is your choice to not work. Life has a habit of throwing us curve balls, you planned to stay at home, your partner was not what you were expecting. Surely you cannot expect others to fund your choices. You chose to have two children with this man. That is surely not for others to comment on or fund.

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 20:52:55

'i don't really see it as a choice, how could you possibly get up every day and leave a baby with strangers? its not an option to me.'

You don't see it as a choice? Well, bella, that's why working poor like us are getting hammered by this government as entitled scroungers. Thanks!

How can I get up and leave my children with strangers? Because we wanted to live in a nice flat and the reality is that landlords with nice flats don't want to rent to people with young children who are sat home all day because it's more wear and tear on their property.

And now, because you don't see it as a choice, this government is going to make sure it isn't! For any of us, even the working ones.

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 20:54:23

i ma not pissed off about people saying i could get kicked out, i accept that.

and i am only stating that i couldn't leave MY baby. lots of my freinds and family went straight back to work after having babies and that is there choice.
i have personel reasons for not wanting to leave my baby with strangers.

i am pissed off that people are saying that i have chosen a 'lifestyle'

baabaapinksheep Thu 29-Nov-12 20:56:07

I planned to stay at home with my dc as well, unfortunately Exp left me a week after dc2 was born so I had to go back to work when she was 7 months and dc 1 was 2yrs. Shit happens but you get on and deal with it, your situation is not unique.

For the record I also live in a 3 bed house and claim a small amount of hb, but my ll is well aware of this. I don't think I am owed my house, and wouldn't lie in order to live here.

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 20:57:21

'and i am only stating that i couldn't leave MY baby. lots of my freinds and family went straight back to work after having babies and that is there choice.
i have personel reasons for not wanting to leave my baby with strangers.

i am pissed off that people are saying that i have chosen a 'lifestyle' '

You have! By lying on an application. Instead of confronting your landlord, even getting served notice and then being made homeless and going to the top of the council/HA list, that's what you're doing. You want a nice house and to not leave your baby.

How is your baby more precious than anyone else's? It's not anyone's choice to do that. They do it for money, money to pay for you to get a house they can't get by lying. Can't you see how that royally pisses someone working their arse off for minimum wage?

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 20:57:56

i accept that at the time i was lucky that we lived in a country that it is a choice.
do you really believe that it is because of someone like me that has worked most of my life that the government is doing what there doing?

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 20:59:14

I really dont think the OP wants to work. She has a sense of entitlement that she 'has chosen not to work'. She looks down at others who do and wonders why she cannot have what they have. She is in a dream world where others pay for her mistake and when she doesnt get her 'entitlement' she lies. She doesnt see anything wrong with that - until she gets caught and I agree with other posters.

There will be someone who will spot what she is doing. They dont need to leave their name to report her. It will be pretty easy for the DWP to find out what has happened. And then she will appear in the Daily Mail and say she has been picked on

So I suspect despite all the good advice on her she will continue with her orginal plan.

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 20:59:41

Well if you didn't live in England you would have to leave your baby like the majority of mothers world wide. There are lots of options for childcare, I gave you 3 just then. You are choosing to live on benefits, ok but you don't get to have a type of house that a working person that slogs their arses for.

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:00:53

that is your choice though?
you have chosen to follow the rules and do what the government wants you to do, even though you would rather be at home with your kids.
you can't blame other people for your choices. you could do what im doing if you wanted to.
you made your choice and now your bitter about it, maybe it was the wrong one?

marriedinwhite Thu 29-Nov-12 21:01:58

I don't think it is benefit bashing. DH's grandad was the eldest of 11 in a two up two down mining cottage - he went down the mine at 14 to help put food on the table for the others. They most certainly didn't have central heating and most certainly couldn't afford it - they could barely afford the latter and even then I don't think there was often enough when they were all at home.

You don't work, you have two children, you live in a three bed house and the rest of us are paying for you to do so. You could be living in a one bed flat with you in the living room - cheaper to heat and cheaper to provide. If you want a good life you have to go to work. I do - every single day (and I don't have to but something in me needs to go to work for my own self esteem) but then I was brought up to expect to take personal responsibility for my actions.

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:04:12

I truly suspect Bella that you are not particualrly old, I heard a 18 year old in a cafe once with a young child say to her friend that she was entitled to claim benefits - really.....

And I think you should take your lucky stars that you live in a country that supports your choices. And make no mistake - they are YOUR choices. Not mine or anyone elses -yours. Surely you must realise that someone is funding your lifestyle and have others have said it is YOUR choice.

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:04:14

i will get the same housing benefit wether i get a 1 bed flat ot 4 bed house.
I have to make up the difference to be able to get this house.
i will go without to make the rent up at the end of the month.
people on houding benefit don't just get whatever rent they ask for.
it is a set amount so really it doesn't matter what house i get.

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 21:05:58

'that is your choice though?
you have chosen to follow the rules and do what the government wants you to do, even though you would rather be at home with your kids.
you can't blame other people for your choices. you could do what im doing if you wanted to.
you made your choice and now your bitter about it, maybe it was the wrong one? '

What the government wants me to do? I don't give a toss for them, bella. But I do care about getting served notice for lying to my landlord because there's a clause in every tenancy agreement I've signed that says if I lied or was false in obtaining it it's a breach of my tenancy and they can therefore end it. And you know, I felt I owed my kids more than that. Bitter, no.

But due to the idea that benefits claimants are liars, like you, when we actually did need benefits, because our daughter was dying, we got treated like criminals and have had to go through even more hell.

Yes, you're legally entitled to claim on a child under 5. You want to lie, go ahead, but if you're caught out, and you're pretty silly if you think you won't because again, if I knew you and was one of those people you claimed 'chose' to 'dump' their child with strangers to work, and I found out you lied to get that house, I'd grass you right up.

Graceparkhill Thu 29-Nov-12 21:06:51

Can I be solution focused again ? I am concerned that you are putting all your eggs in one basket with regards to this other house rather than concentrating on the here and now.

OP in my opinion you need to do something urgently about your current property before the winter really sets in.

As I have said your landlords have a duty to maintain the house to a suitable standard.

Also wondering if you could consider taking in a lodger to share costs. This would help with heating bills.

I honestly wouldn't worry about the extra blankets. I grew up in a house where the ice was on the inside of the window on winter mornings. I do think the dampness and the inefficient boiler should be tackled. That is what you pay your rent for.

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 21:07:37

'i will get the same housing benefit wether i get a 1 bed flat ot 4 bed house.'

You'll get it the LHA for a two-bed home in your area. If you can find a ll to take you on for a 1-bed and the LHA cap is lower than the max for a 2-bed, you'll make out.

Believe me, plenty of us are plenty savvy about benefits.

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:08:31

i understand now whu you are all so pissed off.
yes if someone could just make a claim for housing benefit for any amount they wanted and any house they wanted that would be out of order.

each council has a set amount, here it is 70 qiud a week.
doesn't matter if your rent is 150. you get 70.

so i want a house that is 100, i have to pay that,

i don't smoke, drink, go out, buy clothes, drive or have any luxuries.

but if i want to take money out of my benefits to top up the rent waht is wrong with that?

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:08:34

This government funds your choices you should be grateful for that! Personally this sort of thread makes me mad, someone has a sense of entilement, doesnt want to fund their lifestyle choices (others can do that!) and starts getting snotty about working mothers. We are the people giving you your HB and whatever else you get because you chose the wrong man.

Could someone remind me exactly what that has to do with me! And you choose to critize them...

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 21:09:20

You will be quite fucked paying all that heating and then 14% of your rent once universal comes in.....

marriedinwhite Thu 29-Nov-12 21:10:19

Frankly, I don't think you should have the choice. You spend other people's money and should be provided with something that is considered adequate - yes adequate - for your family's needs. In my opinion, that is shelter, warmth, three beds (beds, not bedrooms), a bathroom and lavatory, and cooking facilities with sink and running water, cooker and fridge. You also need three comfortable chairs and a table that seats three for proper family meals. I would say about 500 square metres would do it.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Thu 29-Nov-12 21:10:27

I totally understand that you want to live in a better home with your children, yours does sound diabolical and I wouldn't be adverse to telling the odd lie to keep a roof over my kids heads, but I would have to look very carefully at who else this would affect. In this case - your LL and I couldn't do that to someone else.

It's not necessarily a judgement the LL will be making on your situation - but his mortgage can be revoked sad If that's the case, you being the perfect tennant and keeping the place spotless wont make one bit of difference he will have to evict you or risk losing his mortgage.

I would talk to him first and see if it's the EA's making life easy for themselves or if the landlord is bound by the terms of his mortgage.

I have read the thread, but might have missed it, why can't you rent one of your mum's properties again?

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:12:14

well expat, i would not get so angry or invovled in anyone elses life that i would feel the need to grass them up. why? its not going to benefit you.
again sounds very bitter.

i am sorry that you were treated like criminals when you really needed the help but that is just the way it is,

p.s im no where near 18!!

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 21:13:52

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:14:28

my mum converyede her house and it is now huge and already rented out.
she has offered if it becomes available.

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:15:45

I think the problem with all of this is the the OP doesnt want to work, has a issue with people that do but also wants what everyone else has - without paying for it. I really dont think we are going to change her mind.

She will lie, she will get caught. And then claim the DWP are picking on her and she was 'forced' to do it. Got fed up with this thread now so off to watch a bit of TV!

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:17:03

ok this is 58m sqaured. anyone convert that into foot?

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:17:16

Do you really know who is funding yur lifestyle and your choices....


Chandon Thu 29-Nov-12 21:17:34

Could the father not help in terms of money? They are his children too?

Is he in the picture or not? It must be hard doing it all on your own.

Still, I think you would take a huge risk by lying.

bellarose2011 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:19:21

i won't report your post, it just puzzles me that anyone could call someone a bitch that they have never met?
any way i agree post done.

thanks for all the constructive advice everyone

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:22:42

Chandon, tbh - think we are going to hear the father is a waste of space, she had two children with him but didnt really know him at all even after 6 yrs. So we have to fund this terrible mistake she made, we also need to fund her choice to stay at home, her choice to want an easy house to live in despite living in a 3 bed house already.

And of course he wont pay anything - there is no need - we are doing it all!

expatinscotland Thu 29-Nov-12 21:22:45

I'd grass you because it's wrong to do that to someone, even if it as a landlord.

Bitter, hey, label away. I've seen the worst that can ever happen to a person, very little effects me now.

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:26:55

I am really insulted to be honest. I have a stressful job but it funds the house, the holidays and the school fees. Do I wish sometimes I could stay and home smug in the knowledge that someone else was funding my choices. Yes I do but not in a million years could it provide everything that I want so I work.

The OP doesnt want to work. Thats fine but please dont trash mothers that do (and fathers). We are funding your choice. Be thankful for that.

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 21:30:35

After thinking about this, Iv'e come to the conclusion that the OP couldn't possibly be real and she is probably a paid tory and is on the scare monger stories winding us all up at her entitled and rude ways so we don't vote labour.

I am quite sure this goes on a lot to.

Wallison Thu 29-Nov-12 21:31:57

I think you should be honest as well. It's just too much of a risk if you get caught. It won't blight your future as a tenant forever (you could always just say you were staying at your mum's for the 'gap' caused by not using that LL as a reference) but you could find yourself kicked out and especially in a small rural area with curtain-twitchers who presumably know the landlord as he used to live in the house ... I wouldn't do it.

If you go onto the Land Registry online site you can look up the details of who owns the property including their address for paying something like £2. I would do this, and then write him a letter saying that you are a good tenant, that you have a guarantor and a reference from your current landlord and crucially offer him two or three months' rent in advance. Borrow it off whoever you need to.

marriedinwhite Thu 29-Nov-12 21:34:01

I should have said 500 sq foot. Not 500 sq metres. 500 sq foot is two very large rooms. More than enough for somebody who needs to keep their children warm, safe, fed, and can't pay to do so themselves. As I said it is entirely adequate.

What makes you think you should have more than that OP if you chose not to contribute an iota?

I would like to understand your point of view but I simply cannot. I worked from the age of 20 very very hard until I was 34 and had my first baby. I went back to work the minute my youngest was 5 and settled into reception.

When we had children it was a choice made because we had worked to have a home, some savings and the things we wanted to provide for them. They had a lot when they arrived and still do but only becuase their father and I worked and sacrificed many selfish things to provide it.

Wallison Thu 29-Nov-12 21:38:24

The OP has already said that she has spent most of her adult life working and there's nothing in her posts that have suggested that she won't work and pay taxes again. Give her a break. You are hardly 'achiever of the year' if you didn't work until your youngest was in school. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you seem to be using it as a stick to beat her with when you yourself were economically inactive for a number of years.

marriedinwhite Thu 29-Nov-12 21:44:12

Well I have never claimed a benefit Wallison and that is rather more than the OP has achieved. I stayed at home and was economically inactive because DH and I could provide for our family without state intervention. If that had not been the case I would have had to go to work because I was not brought up to expect others to bankroll me.

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:49:53

I went back to work when the kids were 6 months. However I dont want to get into a competition about who went back early and who contributed what apart from to say that maybe we should be thinking about what people contribute. On a lot of posts we hear people say 'I have paid my taxes'. what exactly does that mean, for 1 year, 20 years, and how much? We will never really know.

It wasnt there 30 years ago but there has been a sharp change in some people's view. Make bad choices, fine someone will pick up the pieces, smoke and drink your benefits, fine, we wont let your children go without and people are given chance after chance.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but if you have children spaced correctly apart and of different sexes you are also 'entilted' to a 3 bed + house depending on how many children you have. Is that true? How does that work if you fund your own lifestyle choices and buy your own house? Oh - sorry I have forgotten it doesnt make any difference and you are on your own (as you should be!)

cowardlylionhere Thu 29-Nov-12 21:50:19

Except your dh marriedinwhite? What if he had walked out? OP's situation isn't that rare and tbh not every single mother is the feckless girl the government would have us believe. Shit happens and it can happen to anyone. Your tone on this thread is shameful and tbh is trypical 'send them to the poorhouse' Tory shite. Big Society folks.

Wallison Thu 29-Nov-12 21:51:01

Like I said, give her a break. Her youngest is only 10 months old and by the sounds of it wasn't in a particularly happy household when the parents were together. I personally do not mind one jot 'bankrolling' someone to stay with their very young child in the aftermath of a nasty break-up. It's hardly as though she's sat around on benefits all her life and she probably won't do it forever on into the future either.

Odd that you think that never claiming a benefit is an 'achievement' - aim high, eh?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Thu 29-Nov-12 21:51:46

"how could you possibly get up every day and leave a baby with strangers? its not an option to me."

yes it is. you are just refusing to do it.

i have come back because quite honestly i cant believe after all the GOOD advice you have been given here you are still insisting that you have a right to do what you are intending.

you have choice that do not involve lying to anyone and wont make your dcs vulnerable.

go to CAB and get advice on how to get your LL to fix the property

2) become self employed and work from home allowing you to care for your dcs yourself

3) start job searching for a job that will enable you to pay for this other house without lying about HB

4)move back in with your mum til you have found a job (would your mum look after your dcs?)

5) start visting nurseries and local CMers. ask around for recommendations. meet them and get a feel for what sort of service they offer and who 'feel's right for yor family

bella you need to wake up. gone are the days when choosing to be at home whilst on benefits is an option. it isn't. the benefit system is being overhauled and in as little as 6 months you could be forced to work for FREE in order to receive your benefits. what are you going to do with your dcs then? get ahead of the game. dont bury your head in the sand and avoid putting and steps in place to enable you to work. you will be forced to do it if you dont do it voluntarily and you will not get to choose the hours, the days, the pay, the location. you need to accept that this will happen. dont let it happen. get yourself into the game now, get looking for work, get childcare lined up. your baby is 10 months old, how long did you expect to stay at home for without independant income? the benefits you are getting now will go down and down, beleive me. you cannot afford to do nothing. make life easier for yourself and be pro-active before you are forced into a situation where you have no choice over anything. in your shoes (and i said earlier, i pretty much am in your shoes and thsi is what i have done) i would be exhausting all avenues to try and get myself earning my own money and be as independent from benefits as possible.

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:54:19

And when it happens - when you make foolish choices with men does the 'government' pick up the pieces every time. I agree an adequate flat until they get back on their feet but not to fund a lifestyle choice and to sneer at others who are funding that choice by working. What makes her so different?

Who on earth does she think is funding these choices

maisiejoe123 Thu 29-Nov-12 21:59:00

Honestly Dude - I think you are wasting your time. This government is looking at all situations over the coming months. Living in a 3 bed house being funded by the tax payer, refusing to work, looking down at people who do work. Hopefully that will all stop and she will need to put something back to a society she is now planning to defraud due to a very strange sense of entitlement

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Thu 29-Nov-12 21:59:26

and i have left both my dcs in a mix of nurseries and CMers. they are both fine. really they are. they both loved the people who cared for them, they experienced things they wouldn't get at home and they are all the better for it. i cried when i had to take my youngest ds out of his last creche as he loved it so much and all the staff were like family members to him. it's also a great introduction to school life and having to mix with their peers and take instruction from other adults.

marriedinwhite Thu 29-Nov-12 22:03:24

And if my DH had walked out I would have been left with the £350k I put into the house in 1991 as a result of my career and that would have been entirely non negotiable due to the signed and sealed pre-nup.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Thu 29-Nov-12 22:04:41

OP - have you taken note of how this could affect the landlord? Are you factoring this into your decision?

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Thu 29-Nov-12 22:14:39

“How could you possibly get up every day and leave a baby with strangers? its not an option to me.”

“ I am only stating that i couldn't leave MY baby.”

“You all really need to get out more into the real world.”

In MY world, I have had to work, put my children in child care, there is certainly no funds made available to me so that I can opt out of work and paying my own home. Not working is not an option!

Brycie Thu 29-Nov-12 22:18:47

This is really shocking. Bellarose, I think people with two children should be more mature and have more responsibility and awareness of the world around them.

tittytittyhanghang Thu 29-Nov-12 22:30:40

Lots of benefit bashing on this thread, so let me get this straight, if you are on benefits you are only allowed 2 rooms, and baisc furniture like beds and chairs. So that will be no flat screen telly then? And am i right in thinking that you are only allowed to be a SAHM to a baby if you were lucky enough to have benefitted from the property bubble, or are fortunate to be in a job that paid enough to allow you to save up or have a partner to support you. OP i would rather people were encouraged/had financial support to be a SAHP if this is what they choose, especially for very young children and babies. And for the most part i think this is the case until your children are 5, although the financial support is the bare minimum. As for people telling you to get a job in a nursery, or anywhere for that matter, i think thats fucking out of order considering that your child is only 10 months old. Had you a 14 year old, id be the first to tell you to get off yer arse, but atm no, i think you are entitled to stay at home.

marriedinwhite Thu 29-Nov-12 22:50:57

She is entitled to stay at home but not in a three bed semi. She is entitled to stay at home and be given that which is adequate not what many many people aspire to as the result of very hard work.

Djembe Thu 29-Nov-12 22:54:11

Haven't read whole thread, am guessing it's descended into benefit bashing though grin

I have no bones with the morality of it, other than do what's best for your children - the state won't lose in any way!

BUT I have read on here that the reason landlords won't accept HB is to do with insurance, so look into that.

Good luck thanks

Wallison Thu 29-Nov-12 22:54:57

Tell you what, marriedinwhite, why don't you swap lives with her if you think she's getting such an easy ride. You'd have to ditch your husband and live in a damp cold house with your kids, but she's on easy street, isn't she? As opposed to someone who owns a house worth over quarter of a million pounds.

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 23:04:19

titty I think it's fucking out of order what she said to expat after expat explained why she had to go through so much shit to claim anything when her dd was dying.

And I was trying to help the op look at all my posts I started off defending her, she will be utterly fucked when UC is rolled out everywhere, it's more then just a pilot scheme and the OP will end up starving if she's paying the 14% extra on her HB (which will be happening very soon) and all that heat.

tittytittyhanghang Thu 29-Nov-12 23:07:54

MIW, personally I couldn't give a flying fuck how big a house she had, as long as the rent was within the prescribed amount for her needs (i.e if she is allowed £70 a week for rent, then if she gets a 10 bedroom for that price or pays the extra then good for her if thats what worked best for her.)

tittytittyhanghang Thu 29-Nov-12 23:10:14

INOB, then she is damned if she does and damned if she dont.

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 23:14:49

She won't be allowed that come March, one extra room is 14% of your rent you have to pay as you don't need it, 4 is 25%.

If she got a job and got the house she wants legally (it is illegal to lie on a contract) then it would be a win win. And the nursery job was so she wouldn't have to leave her baby (which she said she can't do). I know plenty of nursery workers who get free hours when they work.

I will judge and feel no sympathy if someone put themselves in a situation with dc where they could be made homeless at the drop of a hat when there are alternatives. You have dc your job is to house them, feed them and nurture them, if you don't want to do that then you shouldn't of had dc.

tittytittyhanghang Thu 29-Nov-12 23:21:30

I get what your saying about the nursery job, but unless op has experience/wants to work with children, then (a) getting a nursery job with some free childcare will be extremely hard to get impossibe, if there are any at all, and (b) not everyone is cut out to work with children. I have two kids but id rather be on the bones of my arse than work with other peoples kids, wouldnt be good for me and definitely wouldnt be that great for the children neither.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Thu 29-Nov-12 23:23:54

brandy can you explain the 14% thing to me please? where i live HB is calculated according to need. i have 2 dcs aged 7 and 3 of the same gender so i get the LHA rate for a 2 bedroom property. the house i rent is 3 bedroomed but i dont get any more than the 2 bedroom allowance. are you saying that i will have to pay money back to the housing executive (NI) for the extra room? why? and is it 14% of the actual rent of the house or 14% of the HB amount?

sorry for thread hijack.

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 23:27:47

HB is changing, it will all be universal credit very soon and you will be penalised for every extra room your not entitled to if you claim any amount of HB. Even foster carers will be affected when they have a empty room waiting for placement. The only people not affected by the % of rent and rooms is disability.

Its 14% of the whole rent.

Feckbox Thu 29-Nov-12 23:33:34

OP, don't do it.
Big, deliberate lies are never OK.
Your kids are very young.
the next few years might be tough.
Stick in there.
Get a job as soon as you can.
Work hard
Earn your own money.
You'll be a worn out wreck like the rest of us but you can hold your head high smile

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 23:34:30

IMO if your a single mum and you need to work to support your dc and put them in a decent house a job should be a job to do that and not a career titty. No matter even if it was cleaning the dog shit bins it would be better then nothing.

I also would hate to work in a nursery <shudders germs and snotty nose brats> but I am not saying I can't leave my dc either. It was just one example of a job she could do (where they train you on the job) that she wouldn't have to leave them. I'm sure if I put any thought into I could think of more ideas, but the OP wouldn't want to do them anyway.

HollaAtMeBaby Thu 29-Nov-12 23:35:54

Do it.

If they find out and you don't get the house, you're no worse off than you are now.
If they find out after you've got the house and let you stay, you're better off than you are now.
If they find out after you've got the house and evict you, the council will HAVE to house you and you'll probably be better off than you are now.

... or am I missing something? confused

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Thu 29-Nov-12 23:36:38

how is it being justified brandy? if people are only receieving enough for 2 bedrooms how can the govt take money off them for an extra room? i dont understand the logic behind this? surely it is up to the person renting whether they want to pay the extra rent themselves?

Feckbox Thu 29-Nov-12 23:38:21

yes, you are missing something.
You are missing that it involves big, planned lies

Graceparkhill Thu 29-Nov-12 23:43:02

Hello Dude,

This website has info relating to benefit changes in NI

InNeedOfBrandy Thu 29-Nov-12 23:44:26

The logic behind it is everyone who claims any benefit are scum, stories like this are spread everywhere so everyone is to busy being disgusted about benefit lifestyles and don't pay any attention to the massive tax break the top richest people got in the country today.

They are also stopping homeless people being priority on the council lists instead working married family's will be encouraged to the top of the list.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Thu 29-Nov-12 23:44:46

thanks grace.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Thu 29-Nov-12 23:45:32

Holla, I'm pretty sure what you're missing is that, by lying about this and ending up being evicted by her Ll, the op will be considered by the council as having made herself intentionally homeless. If they can find a way to avoid having to house someone as an emergency, they will.

Don't make it easy for them, op.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Thu 29-Nov-12 23:59:32

i've read that link. i dont see anything that explains why this penalty is due? i dont understand how it is anything to do with the govt if someone decides to pay the extra rent themsleves. why are they (we) to be penalised for that? it isn't a crime!

Brycie Fri 30-Nov-12 00:18:51

How is it that people are entitled to be paid to stay at home? The people paying for this to happen are often forced to go out to work themselves when they don't want to because their partners are paying tax to people who feel it's their choice.

If you aren't prepared to do what's necessary to look after our family ithout relying on others you should think twice before joining that world. It is a hard world and it's harder when you have children. Many people find it so. Many people want to stay at home and can't afford to, many want to have mroe children and can't afford to and these same people are funding others to think it' stheir right to do it with other people paying.

expatinscotland Fri 30-Nov-12 03:18:44

We got treated like criminals. For DH claiming from March-August and not being available for work whilst our child laid in hospital 1.5 hours by car in good weather and a £30 minimum drive away. You couldn't use public transport for her extreme infection risk. The closest hospital to treat her was that far away.

Not because we didn't want to leave our two children, one of whom is still under 5, with strangers, but because our child was suddenly, life-threateningly ill. She was diagnosed 25/11/11 and then we had to wait 3 months to even claim DLA and my Carer's Allowance. I'd have dumped them with a caring wolf and practically did. Now, she's dead.

We never lied or hid assets. We declared money we had from strangers to pay for her funeral and headstone. The total cost of both is about £3600. Believe me, I'd rather starve than have a penny of that if it meant she lived.

Now, we are under-occupying, and DH is back at work on NMW. This is a very rural area, where full-time work is extremely hard to come by and we have one car, you have to run one with a clean license in order to get more jobs over 16 hours/week. So come April, we'll need to make up the difference in the rent that comes with only being entitled to a two-bed because our child died.

But no lies! We've found out about may be a way through Gumtree, to move closer to towns and cities for more work for both of us. We'll not be lying, we have no guarantors, no parents with a big converted house, no FA.

We will be on partial HB and possibly full till we are having work.

Our children, one who just turned 4, are fucked up by their sister's loss and the year that preceded it. She died a horrendous death from cancer.

I'm not lying to some landlord and find our children homeless unless absolutely necessary. I'll tell him or her the entire truth and if he can't see we've worked, can work as we are fit for it, and will work for what comes his way, then he can look elsewhere, but I'm not risking the roof over my two children's heads for lies.

We want to start over. A nice flat in a good area between Gourock and Glasgow, and we are willing to work away for it. We have the bond and the first 6 month's rent, courtesy of my father's pension, same as bella has a place to go if she's homeless.

But apparently, that makes me bitter because I don't want to be sat at home when I'm able-bodied.

expatinscotland Fri 30-Nov-12 03:28:51

Oh, Brycie, that would be dumping them with strangers!

Hey, it's all good, you're entitled to claim till your youngest is 5. That's not the point.

The point is that you're lying and your very foolish friend might lie for you.

Your lookout, but if I were in that rural area and missed out on that house for my two kids whilst I was out scraping coach windscreens at 6AM at 4 below and you were sat at home and I knew you were lying, I'd shop you in a second.

And don't think they won't.

expatinscotland Fri 30-Nov-12 03:39:22

I'm no friend of most BTL landlords, but I'll find out how to contact them and tell them the truth because it means the roof over my kids' heads. I'd rather they know it and make their own judgement than lie. 'I can pay you 6 months. I'm coming off a bad bereavement but I'm here to get work and I'll do anything. And btw, do you know anyone who needs a cleaner or maid to work, a sitter, a pet walker or pet sitter, a night babysitter if you can allow?'

You charge cheap and they'll come till you build up a rep.

It's hard times we're in, but it is how it is.

expat what happened to you and your family is the reason the whole benefits system make me so angry.
It's outrageous, the way you were treated, without any compassion or understanding.

Your situation is what the benefits system should be for. For people in a place most people can't even imagine and IMHO if anyone was entitled to help at that time it was your family.
It makes me feel sick that they treated you like criminals.

I hope that you are getting through it, my heart goes out to you, DH, and your DCs. I think of you often and still have my green candle in the window for your lovely Ailidh.

I do not have a problem with the benefits system being readily and easily available for people who need it and I would have been a lot more sympathetic to the op had she not been quite so vocal about her opinions of working mothers dumping their children with strangers and that being an option for her.
Op, yes you and your children are certainley more than entitled to a good standard of living. A decent place to live, warm, etc. you don't have to live in an overcrowded flat or a cold house.

You obviously did not decide to have 2 children and sit back and rake in the money as long as you could.
But the problem I have is this. From my experience with job seekers allowance, you don't get a huge amount of money, you don't get a cushy life, enough money to live like a queen. You get enough to get by, to cover basic needs.
Now, if for the moment, that is ok because your priority is being at home for your own reasons then that is your choice. It is a choice.
But if you feel the positives of you being at home outweigh the negative aspects no one can tell you any different because no one but you can decide what's right.
However, you then have to accept the decision you have made.
And understand that, by making that decision, there are things, like this house that are not available to you.

It's not available to you because of the choice you made.
I would imagine this is unintentional but you are coming across on your posts like you think it's unfair that you cannot rent this house, and because you don't agree with it, you are going to lie.

Life isn't fair. Read expats story. Then you will see just how unfair life is.
We have to live according to our circumstances. And yours are, you cannot rent from the estate agency because you are not working.

So you either go to work, or you get your current LL to deal with the issues at home.

Can you not go on the council waiting list?

Graceparkhill Fri 30-Nov-12 07:44:25

Hello expat,
First of all my sincere condolences on the loss of your wee girl.
I just want to say
May be able to help with your housing situation.
You can pm me if you like for more info

Brycie Fri 30-Nov-12 07:52:59

ExpatinScotland I haven't "spoken" to you but I have read your daughter's story, and the problems you were going through with the benefits system couple of weeks ago. I'm very sorry. It's very terrible and unfair. I'm not surprised at your anger. I hope you get the support you need. I agree with what T&B said.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 30-Nov-12 08:57:07

“You all really need to get out more into the real world.”

OP, your statement there is really grating with me, and I think you are the one who need to actually join the real world, and not be like a blinkered Victorian horse.

In the real world people work to support their families, they put them into childcare to ensure they are fed and looked after while they go earn a living that put a roof above their heads. In the real world people dont lie and deceive and plan to put other people deliberately in trouble.

What if there was a fire in your rented dream house? OK for you, you could just move out. The landlord would be up shits creek and might not get anything on the insurance, it would cost tens and thousands to fix, it might invalidate his mortgage. But it is ok for you, because you got a nice house that was cheaper to run and mold free, and could just move on when the flames hit the fans.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 30-Nov-12 08:59:47

Ay Expat, I second what Brycie just said.

I am not against benefits, they are there for people who need them, like you. Not like the op who is an able bodied mother of two who just wants a better house, get money free into her account to fund her life style choice, who wants to lie about her benefits to get a house, and by doing so pose significant risk to her landlord.

Xenia Fri 30-Nov-12 09:55:14

expat, such a sad story. There must be things we can all do to help.

I suspect that a move to a big City where there might be more work might help rather than staying in Scotland.

As to the original post those of us who work full time and have children always baulk a bit at benefits claimants saying they could not possibly leave their child because there we are working very hard indeed and handing half back to the state to pay for those who could not possibly wrest themselves away from their precious little darlings.

I never blame anyone who claims that to which they are entitled but this is slightly different. It is whether to lie to an estate agent. Leaving the moral issues aside if you obtain this kind of advantage by deception could that not be some kind of criminal offence? You would not be very present for your children if you were locked away in a jail. Anyway it looks like the housing benefit rules are changing to mean moving to somewhere with more space than allowed will not be allowed anyway.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 30-Nov-12 09:55:50

OP please take the advice about improving things in your current house. Even if you do lie, which I don't think you should, you might not get this house as it is competitive in your area.

InNeedOfBrandy Fri 30-Nov-12 10:00:17

DudeIamSo This is a quick view of what will happen on under occupation and HB, the full form is a PDF download which if you need to see you can download from here. This was last updated on the 20th and will be in place by April.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 30-Nov-12 10:02:48

As a former landlord, I simply would not take on a tenant who was not working. I would ask for references from place of work, and from landlord.

Incidentally, when we had to rent a house last year, the estate agents checks were very thorough. Because we are self employed (run our own business) the work reference was sent to our accountant, who had to confirm we could afford to pay the rent and the deposit. The estate agents also wanted to see 3 months worth of bank statement to verify the absence of benefits and that salaries were paid in to our accounts.

I am shocked that your friend who owns a business is so keen to be dishonest. I fear there is a lot of dishonesty in your circle, op.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 11:52:07

the benefits system is not fair, what is happening to expat is horrendouse.
if the socail said to me if i put my kids in childcare and went to work any body is expats position would get the support they need i would do it in a second, i really would.
unfortunaty it just doesn't work like that.
i don't feel i am owed anything by anyone. i am just willing to take advantage of the fact that i can claim benefits and stay at home for a bit because i think my kids need it. they experienced months of fighting, violence and me crying all the time. my baby was born into a warzone, my toddler lost her dad who she adored.
so im meant to take them from that the immeidiatly put them in nursery?
ive paid taxes for years, ive paid for other people to stay at home with there kids.
and no there dad is not useless. he is a self employed builder who does 14hr days of back breaking work, the building industry is fucked so the work comes and goes.
unfortunatly when me and my ex worked for years we never earned anywhere near enough to mean that when i left i could demand 350,000 to walk away with.
it must seem very simple to someone who has got that kind of money behind them.

and i have know exactly what my next step is, me and my mum are starting our own business. she is taking a course on business and accounting.
i will be off benefits by the middle of next year.
i don't have any family who can help with child care now, they all work.
the business we are starting will mean that my hrs a flexible and i can fit it around kids being with there dad and my mum will have given her job up so will be able to help to.
they will be in nursey a few days a week maybe but they won't be babies then.

can everyone stop saying im putting the landlord at risk as i have said many times I AM GOING TO SAY I CLAIM A SMALL AMOUNT OF HB BECAUSE I WORK PART TIME. THEREFOR IF IT IS A PROBLEM WITH THERE INSURANCE THEY WILL KNOW.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 11:53:17

yes there is dishonesty in my circle because when you are from the wrong side of the tracks you have to lie to get somewhere in life!

InNeedOfBrandy Fri 30-Nov-12 12:14:17

You seem to miss the point, a half lie is still a lie. The fact you lied on the form will invalidate his insurance.

Oh and being from the wrong side of the tracks is no reason to lie to get what you want without working for. I doubt you know anything about the wrong side of the tracks anyway, or a DV situation. I don't believe a word of this poor me sob story bullshit now, and yes people like you are the reason expat had to jump through so many hoops to get what she needed.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 30-Nov-12 12:17:04

People like you are the reason the government is now dismantling the welfare state as we know it, piece by piece.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 13:04:04

yeah and people like you are th reason there getting away with it.
they have managed to brainwash millions of people into to thinking that what wrong with this country is some people that are on benefits.
get real, look at the budgets and where the moneys really going.

expat has got every reason to be angry, she has been failed by the system.

but anyone that is sat in a house that is worth more money than a lot of people will ever see in there lives has no right to be angry beacause you have no idea what the hell there on about.

anyway im not going to post on here anymore, start a benefit bashing thread if thats what you all want to talk about.

or maybe a thread about how all people not at work should be left to starve.

or maybe a thread about how people shouldnt commit fraud in order to get a house because the LL wont take housing benefit

Xenia Fri 30-Nov-12 13:09:33

If we stand back the idea that if the state (ie hard working full time working mothers whose babies are in childcare) has decided it is not reasonable to spend its money on spare bed rooms that is not a bad concept. It may result in some hard cases but most of us would agree the principle is sound.

The issue of whether someone should forge a job in collusion with a friend who has a business to try to get a tenancy when housing benefit rules may be changing and the benefit may well be reduced to a point when she may well if her business does not take off not be able to pay the rent is the top of the thread. The issues are will she get found out and prosecuted for some kind of fraud and her friend also be prosecuted. Will the fraud be found out anyway as the agency may well do additional checks as well as using the system they use.

If you are in full time work the house is empty most of the day - much much less wear and tear. If you're in it all day long it does have more of an impact on the property.

The bottom line is we do not have the money to pay the benefits we have paid. However I have no faith this Government will make anything like the level of cuts we really need. They just tinker at the edges.

InNeedOfBrandy Fri 30-Nov-12 13:10:30

Oh fuck off bella, I live in a council flat with 2 dc and they share a room, I get some HB as I work part time and I have lived in places where it was not unusual to see needles on the street and trails of blood where people have been shot and stabbed. I have seen with my own eyes a boy shot to death in front of me at a rave, even now I live in a better area there was a stabbing last night.

I grew up in care and I've had 2 dc by the time I was 20 and claimed full benefits till I was 20, I lived in a refuge because of a DV situation and had to claim benefits but I didn't sit on my arse when I came out of there and I still think you are a lying entitled lazy bitch and you are whats wrong with this country.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 13:26:54

so brandy your saying people exactly like YOU are whats wrong with this country?
you are no different to me, ive had a lot of shit happen to me im my life which i wont go into because its no ones business.

if you claimed full benefits till you were 20 then you have claimed a hell of a lot more than me.

do you think that when you were a kid coming out of care you should have been left to fend for yourself?
surely you were given a council flat?
what would have happened if you hadn't of been able to claim benefits?
its beyond me how someone from your background could think the way you do.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 13:30:23

how old was your youngest when you went back to work?

InNeedOfBrandy Fri 30-Nov-12 13:32:29

I claimed full benefits for 2 years and 3 months, I never lied to get things I wasn't entitled to I went to college while pregnent both time and straight back to college when they were 2 months old. I didn't lie to ge my council flat I was top of the list and priority.

You are lying to get something you don't actually need, you are putting other people inc your dc in the shit for when it gets found out. I have and I say this very smugly always put my dc first through everything and everyone and I work my arse off putting food in their bellys and keeping a roof over their head, maybe you should try the same.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 13:40:49

well you have recieved a lot more benefits then i ever have.
not i that i think you shouldn't have but you are not in a position to have a go at anyone else for being on benefits.
i have paid for you to go to college and get a council flat as i have worked most of my life.
do i sit here resenting it?
no i live my life and let others live theres however they think is best for them and there kids.
so get of your (smug) high horse

Im really confused
you say you are coming off benefits in the next few months to start a business?
if thats the case, why on earth are you not waiting until then to move?

Then you wont have to lie

brandy didnt lie about it though did she?

its not the fact you claim benefits and then want a better place to live so lie about your situation rather than doing something.

InNeedOfBrandy Fri 30-Nov-12 13:47:16

You just don't comprehend what your doing is wrong do you? My teenage situation was nothing like you an adult is doing.

I hope someone you know feels like this thread does about you and grasses you up.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 13:49:25

because this house is just unbearable, it was ok untill the freezing weather kicked in.
we are always cold and then i got a 182 gas bill for 42 days which i can't afford.
i would happily live in a groundfloor flat but there arn't many were i live,
TBH this house is about the size of a 2bed flat.

this morning i woke up and the walls in my bedroom are actually wet.
i have contacted lanlord who is popping in tommorow. but i can't make them buy a new boiler so the bills will always be huge.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 13:50:43

the house i want i mean not the one im in

but they have to maintain the property.

if the boiler is broken or infective they have to deal with it.

If theres damp etc they have to deal with it.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 13:52:30

i don't spout about my business so no one will know to grass me up.
also i don't know what kind of council estate you live on but where i come from someone who grassed a single mother up and got her evicted would be spat at in the street.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 13:54:00

the boiler isn't broken or ineffective, it works there are just very expensive to run.
they are not efficent like modern ones.
it was put in when gas was cheap.
i will show them the damp.

ok so im pretty sure the landlord has to deal with things like damp and mould.

It sounds like you have a plan to work which fits in around your children etc., Is there no way you could consider waiting until you come off benefits and renting a house then?
At least then you will be able to be honest, you will know that you have done everything properly and no one can say anything to you.

Obviously I dont know about your estate agent but I do know a lot of agencies require bank statements as proof of income anyway, if at some point they ask you for that and you have lied its just going to make it harder for you in future.
And if you do get evicted for breach of tenancy then wherever you try and rent again will want to talk to your landlord so again it will be impossible.

Xenia Fri 30-Nov-12 15:51:03

Leave the immorality issue to one side and think about the legal risks - moving and then the benefits rules changing so that you have too much space and lose a lot of HB and/or trying to move and the lie being found out. It just sounds a bit risky.

Yes, one of my children recently started renting and they had to show bank statements showing the salary going into the account each month.

tittytittyhanghang Fri 30-Nov-12 16:28:30

*but they have to maintain the property.

if the boiler is broken or infective they have to deal with it.

If theres damp etc they have to deal with it.*

Pahahahaha, wait till i wipe the tears away from eyes.

Legally probably they do. The reality is however a different story.

im getting pretty fucked off with you getting called entitled. I guess im an entitled bitch for claiming child benefit?

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 30-Nov-12 16:29:11

Bella - I think you should wait until you can do it properly and not put your children at risk of being made homeless if you get found out. People get found out in a lot of different ways, you can't be complacent about it.

Your LL has a duty to make sure your house is habitable. Yours sounds like they need to do something. I honestly can't remember now why you said your LL couldn't spend money on the place, but that's not your problem - they need to put in a boiler that is working, efficient & cost effective.

Get this place sorted and move when you can do it properly & without the stress - and quite frankly, with UC coming in, I'd be wary of making any move until you know what you will actually get or you could be right up shit creek without a paddle.

titty i thought that was the law?

I dont know, if im wrong then ok, I wasnt taking the piss, i thought that was the case.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 16:48:15

i think it is the law but reality is different like titty says.
i mean if they can't afford to replace the roof (i know its the roof my ex is a builder and has looked)
what am i going to do? if i start spouting off about how they have to they will just give me a months notice, get rid of a problem tenant.
and i don;t think you can demand a new boiler just because its old.

tittytittyhanghang Fri 30-Nov-12 17:05:09

oh its the law, but there are so many ways around it, that if the landlord doesnt want the hassle/financial bother of repair work then the reality is it wont happen. I know of people who have asked about repairs just to be ignored or worse not had their tenancy renewed at the end of the 6 months, some people I know won't complain about repairs for that reason.

Xenia Fri 30-Nov-12 17:08:54

We put up with a boiler for 6 years which di d not work properly. That is real life. I had to replace this year and it cost £6000 including VAT. I am sure some people have bad land lords or landlords who cannot afford to repair things. One solution is get a job and buy your own house and don't expect others to look after you. That is obviously something the poster might manage if the business she and her mother are going to start gets going although does the mother really need to do a course jut to get started on it. Can't it just be started now without the course?

Graceparkhill Fri 30-Nov-12 17:13:14

You do have rights as a private tenant and there is help available ( from Shelter and others) I know I am like a broken record but I figure even if OP does not engage then the info might help someone else.

You could contact environmental health for advice as well.

It is wrong to be paying rent for a substandard property and your current landlord will not find it easy to get the property relet if it is in poor condition.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 30-Nov-12 17:13:53

Bella - if that's the case wouldn't you be better off getting an electric shower (not expensive) and some oil heaters? When I used them, they didn't seem expensive to run at all (contrary to what some on here say) and they did a really good job.

tittytittyhanghang Fri 30-Nov-12 17:15:03

Xenia, thats not the answer, or nowhere near it. The fault lies with the landlord and quite frankly if they are bad landlords or cant afford it then they shouldn't bloodly well be landlords. At the end of your mortgage period you will own your house, when people are in rented they get fuck all at the end, the trade off is supposed to be that they are in a well maintained house. And even getting a job doesn't equal buying a house neither, getting a mortgage nowadays is like plucking hens teeth.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 17:15:26

im not expecting my landlord to look after me, i pay them rent. they should fix stuff. that is how it works.
some people on here have very strange ideas.
are you expecting your mortgage company to look after you because they lent you the money to buy your house? does that make any sense?

there are other reasons we can't start the business yet, my mum has other commitments that she is sorting out. in the mean time she is doing a course.
we could do it without the course but would rather be prepared, we will hjave to employ poeple so need to learn about accounting taxes ect.

IWipeArses Fri 30-Nov-12 17:17:55

I've been reading a funny blog about saving money on heating, Chipping reminded me -

Bear in mind that if the dampness is due to condensation it's not the landlords problem. It's possible to handle by keeping temperature consistent (moderately low) and ventilate the property.
If it's a leaking roof then they need to fix it.

Graceparkhill Fri 30-Nov-12 17:19:00

Me again with another bright idea. I am not sure how things are with your ex ( i know you say he has looked at the roof)but would he ( if it is safe for you to be in contact with him) or a colleague be willing to repair the roof in return for a reduction in your rent?
Landlord could supply materials and ex/ colleague could supply labour.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 17:30:43

grace, i am listening! just so many posts loose track.
i have asked landlord to come over tomorrow to look at damp.
will discuss maybe my ex doing the work, he would if he had time. he's ok when he's not drunk!
but i think most landlords would give notice to anyone that was demanding they spend thousands of pounds on the property.
there are so few rentals here they would always be able to rent it out.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 17:32:26

wipearse! i get really abd condensation in this house, there is puddles of water on the windowsills every morning. it even happens when were not here so not just due to cooking/baths. will look at link now.

Graceparkhill Fri 30-Nov-12 17:37:15

Sorry - didn't mean to criticise. I do think it is worth having a dialogue with your landlord. The rental market is changing with more competition for tenants and more regulation for landlords.
You probably have more bargaining power than you realise.
Good luck!

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Fri 30-Nov-12 20:46:51

Bellarose - we have victorian single glazed wooden sash windws that are so badly condensated every day that they are mouly and rotten. For the winter we cover them with glazing film. you just stick it on and blow it with the hairdryer until its tight and it creates a vacuum, reduces noise a little, reduces draft hugely and stops condensation. its brilliant stuff.

IWipeArses Fri 30-Nov-12 20:51:26

Ventilation is important to get rid of the actual moisture though. If you've any vents that have been covered over, they need unblocking, open windows every day etc.

bellarose2011 Fri 30-Nov-12 21:47:42

coconut, that sounds great. where do you get it from?
i do try to open the windows in the morning but its just so bloody cold that sometimes i don't!
just pulled the sofa out to hoover and there is mold all over the wall,its never been there before. i think its the constant rain.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Sat 01-Dec-12 10:21:27

Have you "bled" the radiators? (Let air out)

If the radiators are 1/2 water and 1/2 air, then they wont warm up properly.

You need to air the house by opening the windows. But no matter how much you open the windows, it wont really matter if the house is filled with water due to a leaking roof.

bellarose2011 Sat 01-Dec-12 11:22:55

no havn't bled radiators, how do you do it?
would it be better to ask a bloke to do it? sorry feminists im just not that good with DIY!!

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sat 01-Dec-12 11:44:34

Bleeding a radiator must be the easiest home maintenance/SIY job there is. Just google it and you'll find hundreds of sets of instructions. First one I found on youtube here.
It's very satisfying, too!

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sat 01-Dec-12 11:45:17

DIY not SIY, obv. blush

bellarose2011 Sat 01-Dec-12 11:47:38

ok, thanks. i do think the radiators havn't been getting as hot as usual. i was thinking this morning that i can't remember the house ever being this cold so could be the problem.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sat 01-Dec-12 11:51:45

You can easily get a radiator key from any DIY/ hardware shop/plumbers' suppliers.

Xenia Sat 01-Dec-12 12:52:38

Certain try bleeding the radiators. Most of us will have seen others do it or looked up how to do it on line. Also if the water is coming from a hole in the roof then that needs to be fixed and may just need a few new tiles putting up there. The landlord might also be able to buy a dehumidifier for you - they are not too pricy compared with roof repairs anyway - which you plus in and takes moisture from the rooms and you can empty it fairly regularly.
If you can afford it (probably not) keep central heating on night and day but low setting as that might help remove dampness too.

Graceparkhill Sat 01-Dec-12 13:32:31

Agree with all techy advice . Also have a think about how and where you dry your washing. With 2 wee ones you must have loads and if you are drying indoors pints of water will be circulating within the house.

If you can't open the windows this moisture has no where to go.

Same applies to shower/ baths. Ventilation is key to avoiding condensation .

I know not easy when it is so cold and heating so expensive.

bellarose2011 Mon 03-Dec-12 19:20:02

yes i dry at least one load of washing a day, sometime 2/3.
i dry it on or infront of the radiators, im sure this is probably the worst thing i can do as far as damp/condesation goes but just havn't got anywhere else to do it.
i do have a tumble dryer but rarely use it, somebody gave it to me. ive always thought they were really expensive on electric, not sure if thats correct?
i have bled radiators (v.easy!) and that has definatly helped.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 03-Dec-12 20:22:21

Excellent! Next job: glazing film for windows here.

You can get insulating tape to go around the door frames as well, to fill in any possible draughts. I think you can also get ot for windows, if they're sash-opening ones.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 03-Dec-12 20:28:42

Oh, came across this: information for landlords re. grant to cover cavity wall/loft/and one other I forget insulation.
It seems it's the tenant who applies as they are responsible for the bills, but that means your benefits situation/income is taken into account rather than your landlord's.
Worth having a look and maybe showing it to him.

cumfy Thu 20-Dec-12 22:10:16

It's interesting to see how different the general response is to this compared to say when OP asks about lying on their CV.

A very typical response then is along the lines - "As long as you can do the job, good for you; it's not like you're carrying out surgery is it ?".

For a tenant the "demands" are very easily met; pay the rent and don't trash the place.

So why the difference for the OP ?

kickassmomma Sun 03-Feb-13 18:17:44

Some estate agents accept DSS, I applied for two houses both accepted DSS. Maybe the specific house that you want doesn't accept it therefore you find another that does. If I was in your situation I would be finding any house that was warm an suitable for my dd, first then findin a nicer house to move onto when the move isn't do urgent smile

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