Did I Handel this right?

(152 Posts)
Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 21:35:01

Hi I run a small beauty salon that is a hairdresser I rent the space off the hair salon owner Today I had a client booked in at 10.45 for a pedicure and wax this treatment takes about an hour and 15 mins to do my client showed up at 11.05 so 20mins late so I explained that unfortunately because she is so late that I will only be able to do some of the treatment myself and my qualified junior therapist will have to do the rest as I have someone booked in at 12 so I don't have enough time to do the treatment before they are due in.

She said she wanted only me to do it and that its not her fault she's late and as she is a regular client I should make an exception, I then explained that although it is not her fault it is not fair for me to make my next client wait 20mins longer for her treatment evan tho she arrived on time and that she is also a loyal regular client.

She then said she would only have the leg wax done then if I couldn't do the pedicure myself I said I'm very sorry but if you refuse to have the pedicure treatment done by the other therapist I will still have to charge the whole amount as I had waisted time waiting for her to come when I could of had other clients booked in earning money instead of just standing their waiting for her. A pedicure costs £35 so evan tho I had been waiting around to do the treatment and given my time up I would have been down £35 for the day

Well she blow her top that I suggested she pay for a treatment she had not had so I explained that she was paying for my time that she had still taken up evan tho she was not their for the treatment and that she had been offered to still have the treatment by the other therapist just not me. Anyways I could not please her so in the end I did the treatment and my other lady's treatment was started by my junior then i took over (tho I don't think it was fair she had a less qualified member of staff as she was on time for her treatment.)

After the lady left she then rang the salon to speak to the owner saying I was rude, DO YOU THINK I WAS WRONG DO YOU THINK I SHOULD HAVE JUST LET IT GO AND LOST OUT ON THE £35. She said she would not be back to use any services hair or beauty so of course the hair side of thinks think iv lost them a client to, which I feel really band about. My lady also blamed my pregnancy and said it must be the baby as I not normally like this but shes not normally late so I haven't had to deal with this before.

I think as she was late she should of expected my kind offer to have it done by my other therapist as it was after all her fault

WeAllHaveWings Fri 14-Jun-13 21:55:14

Never heard of being charged for missed appointments at a salon before! But if you want to go down this route you need to make customers aware of this condition when booking their appointments.

Think most salons absorb the odd missed appointment as goodwill to keep clients coming back. Are you a busy salon who can afford to turn regular customers away or is she a repeat offender? If neither, I think you were maybe a bit hasty. Does your employer give you guidance on how o approach these issues?

Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 22:01:55

As stated above I Own the salon so have no employer to ask. It does say 50% charge will be made to all missed appointments on the website and price list it is common to have it written I'm surprised you have not heard of it before.

But that's not really my issue she was late I stood their waited for 20 mins then She expected me to not be payed for that time would you go to work and stand for 20mins unpaid.

I feel that as someone else could have done the treatment she should have let them not just said she wouldn't have it or pay for it after making me wait for her, when I could have done another client. I have bills to pay to and £35 is a lot of money.

Numberlock Fri 14-Jun-13 22:07:06

So why did you insist on the full amount and not 50%?

GibberTheMonkey Fri 14-Jun-13 22:10:38

In her position. I would have walked out and never come back.

flowery Fri 14-Jun-13 22:12:32

If the treatment normally takes 1hr 15 minutes I'm surprised you booked it at 10.45 with someone else due at 12. Do you normally leave yourself absolutely no 'give' between appointments? 20 minutes is quite late I agree, but giving yourself no leeway at all in case of overrrunning/lateness is asking for problems IMO.

As this doesn't relate to Employment in any way you might want to get the threat moved to a more appropriate place.

KrazyKurls Fri 14-Jun-13 22:14:10

It's a pain when cclients are late but just something you have to deal with I'm afraid, in your position I would have offered the one treatment and waived the other treatment charge. I've heard of charging for missed/late appointments but never seen it implemented. Life sometimes gets in the way and if my hairdressers/therapist charged for an appointment I cancelled last minute/was late for as a one off I wouldn't be happy.

Pancakeflipper Fri 14-Jun-13 22:14:12

I think discretion should be used. She's a regular. Well she's not likely to come back now so you will lose more than £35.00 and she will tell her mates about what SHE thinks about your salon.

And She actually turned up. You'd have had no money if they didn't turn up at all.

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 22:14:47

D'you know, I actually clicked into this thread thinking it was about Handel

Pancakeflipper Fri 14-Jun-13 22:17:34

Wuldric - were you expecting controversy about Water Music?

Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 22:22:17

Sorry I asked u all seam to think I should work for free. Didn't actually specifically ask for the full amount I only got as far as saying the treatment would still need be payed for. I really don't think it was fair to make me wait for 20 mins then turn down the offer of another therapist doing the treatment then to not pay when I had in fact still given the time up stood their waiting for her.

The timing is not that tight had she been 5 mins late or evan 10 it would have been fine I was doing different treatment next so didn't have to clear up the space as would be using a different room and the receptionist takes the payment and rebook people so I walk from one person to another also a pedicure takes 40min leg wax about 15/20 normally so it doesn't take dead on that time but that's the time I allow in my book for a bit or leeway. I actually allow a lot of extra time compared to most salons Iv work. There's is only so many hours in the day so they need to need used as best they can.

Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 22:23:47

I couldn't find a more suitable category for my post sorry if in wrong place this I'd my first post don't think I'll bother again the net mums are much nicer

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 14-Jun-13 22:25:10

I think you have messianic issues.

HollaAtMeBaby Fri 14-Jun-13 22:25:10

She definitely won't be coming Bach grin

DramaAlpaca Fri 14-Jun-13 22:25:49

I was expecting to hear about controversy in an orchestra, not a beauty salon.

wink

nannynick Fri 14-Jun-13 22:27:04

When someone books, do they get to choose which person does the treatment? Does the booking say for example, "pedicure with Chazz"?

The customer seems to have expected the treatment to be provided by you, where as is that actually a choice given to them? If you were not at work for any reason, would they have had to accept someone else doing the treatment?

Charging to the pedicure when not providing it (which was the option presented to the client when they said they would only have the leg wax done) does not seem reasonable to me. A risk of running a business is that you make a loss, you have clients who don't pay or don't pay in full, you have clients not turn up.

Your contract can have a clause in it to try to recover losses in the event of things like a late notice cancellation, though they can be hard to enforce - you need to decide on a case by case basis if it is worth chasing the debt (such as writing the letters and eventually taking it via small claims court).

I would have expected you to stick with the situation being that you had another client at 12 so could not do everything that was booked and thus would charge for what was done and rebook the rest.

Pancakeflipper Fri 14-Jun-13 22:27:55

If you take the time to actually read the posts you would see there are some valid points.

People may not agree with you but it doesn't mean they me are nasty.

GibberTheMonkey Fri 14-Jun-13 22:37:58

Op must be very Strauss-ed with it being so Bizet

BrianTheMole Fri 14-Jun-13 22:41:10

Well you need to look at the longer term really. And longer term you've lost more than £35, as she won't be coming back and she'll tell all her mates. This is your livelihood, but you seem to only be thinking in the moment, not the future.

HenriettaPye Fri 14-Jun-13 22:42:57

Holla I actually just spat out my drink laughing at that!

Op why did u want to charge her full price when website states 50% charge? confused

I would have been very annoyed if I was the customer

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 22:44:32

ROFL. The customer had Haydn-uff and Rimsky-Korsakoved off

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 22:45:54

Sounds like a big fugue-up to me.

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 22:46:08

But it all ended happily when the OP and the Customer met in a bar and got Brahms and Liszt

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 22:49:13

What's the norm? I wouldn't expect to be charged by a hairdresser if I didn't turn up. A dentist yes. I don't really go beauty salons so don't know the etiquette.

grin "wont be coming bach" totally made me gigglesnort

op you should have just told her as she was late, that she'd be having someone else finish the treatments and she can either take it or reschedule. she was the one that was late... you cant let the whole day get behind because of it as you have other clients to deal with.

SanityClause Fri 14-Jun-13 22:52:36

The customer will have to do some Chopin around to find another salon.

Pennies Fri 14-Jun-13 22:52:44

Wuldric - ur norty and u know it.

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 22:52:56

All because the Customer turned up late for her toenail Chopin

oh... and i wouldnt have charged her for not having the treatments either... though if it does say 50% on the website then thats what she should have paid... not the full price

curryeater Fri 14-Jun-13 22:53:23

try to forget it, Lully yourself into a state of calm. If she does come bach you will have to tallis all about it.

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 22:53:50

Damn and blast you Sanity, you beat me to Chopin

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 22:56:18

You've got yourself in a bit of a piccolo if the salon owner is annoyed though - you need them to be on your side. Get her a Grieg Greggs sausage roll tomorrow and explain? I think you need to be singing from the same hymn sheet re cancellations. I'd be brassed cheesed off as the customer if I was charged tbh. Good luck.

SanityClause Fri 14-Jun-13 22:56:46

Only just. wink

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 22:57:20

The net mums are nicer it's true x

I really was expecting a fantastically well intended pun from a music teacher or something! grin

Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 22:59:34

Why does the dentist still deserve to be payed but not me evan tho I was their waiting for her. She was not just told to have someone else I could no longer do the treatment as she was so late so I offered her another therapist. She didn't want another therapist so I said I would do what I could in the time until my next person arrived but I still felt I should be payed the full amount as I have in fact still given her my time waiting for her to show up.

There is no need to be rude lady's I'm not some rich salon owner I rent a small space at the back of a hairdressers and pregnant with my first child and I'm trying to earn a living.

I find it shocking that some of you with think it ok to not show up for hair appointments most hairdressers are also self employed and if you don't show up they don't get payed

SanityClause Fri 14-Jun-13 23:02:13

I don't think I'd want to go to a salon Verdi owner insisted on charging for treatments I hadn't had.

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 23:04:24

<applause for Verdi> Sheer genius

I'm finding it hard to unRavel the OP's predicament

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:04:44

Sorry OP - it must have been really annoying and you weren't in the wrong at all to be annoyed - but I junk if it happens again you should think about future custom, which is worth more than one single appointment - and keep the customer on side, even if it's through gritted teeth. Minor issue could lead to major benefits if you Handel it sensitively? smile

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:05:16

*think not junk confused wine

SanityClause Fri 14-Jun-13 23:06:42

Vivaldi salons I've ever been to, they don't charge for time, like this.

DramaAlpaca Fri 14-Jun-13 23:06:46

Maybe it's time we showed the OP a bit of Symphony & stopped teasing her.

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:07:39

To be fair the wasted time would pluck anyone's G-string. Don't blame you for wanting to throw up jazz hands and show her you're not Debussy she thinks.

Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 23:09:07

She wasn't just paying for a toe nail choppin, its my lively hood you are all joking about its how I pay my bills and feed my family.

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:10:53

Nice one Chazz smile sorry for the ripping but it's irresistible...

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:13:58

I guess you could learn from the experience - she was unreasonable to be late but obviously you'd make more money keeping her as a regular client so call her back and just apologise, blame hormones if you are far along enough to be open with your pregnancy?

can't resist Maybe offer a free file and polish for her scale-y feet? The crotchety bat will be quavering in anticipation, she'll barely be able to breve at the thought. It'd only take you a minim or two.

SanityClause Fri 14-Jun-13 23:14:26

I think what you did really pissed her Orff.

Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 23:15:52

Just to Finnish off my rudness for the day, the tax I'm going to pay on the treatment I did today and all my other silly little beauty treatments. contribute to benefits some if not most of you are claiming as u can't be arsed to earn a living for yourself

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 23:16:53

If you go with the flow, OP, you'll find it all works out

G'luck!

SanityClause Fri 14-Jun-13 23:16:58

Yes, OP, we are Albeniz your notice.

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:18:53

Whoa there. Benefit bashing? Why/what the? Chill out. Light hearted intelligent ribbing combined with helpful advice - why are you posting on MN if not for that? Why are you suggesting any of us are on benefits anyway, as if it's even relevant?!

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:19:41

<plays a tiny violin for OP>

SanityClause Fri 14-Jun-13 23:20:25

Ooh, well played with Gluck! I couldn't work out how to get him in. <still trying to squeeze in Paganini>

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:23:33

Don't be wagners. OP needs to gersch win this battle, if you'd only liszt-en properly.

curryeater Fri 14-Jun-13 23:25:10

Maybe she was there on time, but she was Haydn.

curryeater Fri 14-Jun-13 23:26:11

It'll all come out in the wash (with a bit of Purcell)

I can see why you were annoyed, and yes £35 is a lot to lose, but by insisting that she paid that you have now lost a client.

If she was spending £35 a fortnight, that's £70 a month, so £840 a year that she will now spend somewhere else.

It's a lot to lose for £35....

That's what people mean by thinking about the long term impact of what you did. No you shouldn't work for free (although you weren't actually working) but to make that point has cost you far more than that £35.

It's cost you every penny she would have paid you in the future plus every penny her friends and family might have paid you if she recommended you, plus every penny you might have been paid by everyone she tells about you.

I'm sure you are a great beautician, but this was bad business practice and customer service which will have a bad impact on your business. If you are reliant on your income you really need to think about the long term. Lose £35 but gain £840 because a happy customer comes back - you chose gain £35 but lose £870 and a customer. Bad choice.

BinarySolo Fri 14-Jun-13 23:27:36

Shame she wasn't Abel to see your Punto view.

curryeater Fri 14-Jun-13 23:28:43

Perhaps she was slowed down by worn out heels - waiting for the Schumann to finish

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:28:45

A lasting customer would Beethoven a single kept appointment financially.

SanityClause Fri 14-Jun-13 23:29:23

The OP is right. Unless we all pay our taxes, I don't know what will happen to Britten.

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:31:07

Curryeater - if she was betting on that, she sure lost that Schubert.

curryeater Fri 14-Jun-13 23:32:17

Oh dear does the op feel everyone just wants to Mahler?

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 23:32:43

Oh Paganini is impossible - I did try to think of a pun on being hungry and going for a Pa(ga)nini but it was lame. Then I tried Rachmaninov - involving a scenario where the OP had the customer on a rack, and the customer cried out 'Man, enough'. But it all sounded a bit wrong - as though the OP had the Customer in a Cage.

AgnesBligg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:33:38

Sounds like a lot of hot Air on the G string. I would ignore the peer gynt.

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:33:45

I've been trying Rachmaninov for a while sad

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:38:13

Maybe you should take a more minimal approach to this. Nyman would stand for this sort of treatment to be fair. Einaudi posters would. Sit in an Oldfield and look into a Glass... you'll find the answer soon Eno.

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 23:39:25

Good work!

Everyone has done well. Bellinis all round?

Hug for the OP. Genuinely. But you must have a Bellini now.

lougle Fri 14-Jun-13 23:40:57

Could you not have done the treatment, and then when the next lady arrived you could excuse yourself for a moment or two, pop out and say to the next lady that you are running a bit late, but your colleague (do you really use the word junior? I hate that) could start her treatment straight away to avoid delay. Then, once the client had left, you could either continue with the treatment, or allow your junior (hate that word, did I mention it?) to complete.

It's not good customer service to start arguing over services, etc. I wouldn't have had either treatment if I had apologised for my lateness and you launched a lecture about your costs - it's the peril of self-employment.

Besides, I agree with Flowery. Even the NHS allows 20 minutes before a DNA, more if the patient phones. That's, like, real life and death stuff. Nobody died because their nails weren't pretty, did they?

SecondRow Fri 14-Jun-13 23:41:03

Woah there I don't think the OP asked for this kind of a baroque-ing sad There'll be fireworks if MNHQ have to get involved...

Kneedeepindaisies Fri 14-Jun-13 23:42:13

<crying at this thread>

OP- YABU. This is one of the joys hmm of being self employed.

Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 23:47:23

I actually can't understand a word most of you are saying, also I don't know why when I come on hear for advice most of you make it out to be a joke. My job it not Joke. I'm benefit bashing as if any off you did work you would not expect a person to work for nothing. Anyone on benefits understands the opposite as they already get payed to do nothing.

To the person that said I was not working as I didn't do the treatment I was standing at the desk waiting if I had had my baby by now I would also be paying a child minder, I wasn't at home doing what I wanted, I was at work so therefore I was working.

DramaAlpaca Fri 14-Jun-13 23:47:36

This thread has got me crying and DH desperately trying to think of more musical puns. He wanted to know why I was laughing so much.

He's very impressed with baroque-ing and fireworks...

Best thread today - hope OP is taking it in the spirit it's intended.

lougle Fri 14-Jun-13 23:50:18

Chazz88, you have had 6 minutes, 26 seconds to read my post which did not make any reference to any musical genius. Did you not see it?

WhatALark Fri 14-Jun-13 23:50:38

OP, I feel your pain. It Mozart to lose £35.

lougle Fri 14-Jun-13 23:50:59

"Best thread today - hope OP is taking it in the spirit it's intended."

Drama, I think we can be reassured that the OP is not wink

Wuldric Fri 14-Jun-13 23:51:07

OP you said Handel (a composer) instead of handle in your thread title.

Which spawned a lot of jokes about composers. They were not ill-natured jokes. Just jokes.

I would imagine that most of us work. I certainly do.

Chin up! Don't sweat. And have that Bellini wine

Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 23:52:24

No I'm sure that nobody had died if there nails are not pretty buy if you don't show up for a doctors appointment the doctored still get payed,

My next lady had to pick up her little girl from school she does half day so if I had been 20min late for her appointment she would have been late picking her lo up from school. Also it not that lady who was late so why should she have to sit an wait.

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:54:23

Yes you were at work, but the contract between you and she was not clear. She wasn't paying you for that hour, she was paying you to do a thing, which you didn't in the end do.

Seriously look at other salons' terms and conditions - it's really rare for clients just not to turn up, it's far better for you in the long run to be nice and forgive them.

You won't earn future business by acting like this, you really won't. Someone wise once said to me that you can't change other people's behaviour but you can change your own reaction to it. I know you're pregnant and are feeling financial pressure, but that's a) no need to run your business poorly, which is what it is if you piss off regular clients who make one mistake, and b) have a go at random MNers who may or may not be claiming benefits. Though I'm still struggling to see the relevance of that... Lots of specialists in all sorts of things here on MN, this thread has attracted the musical types due to your unfortunate typo in the title smile

lougle Fri 14-Jun-13 23:55:46

Well I addressed that in my post. You had the option to offer the other lady your colleague (junior) to allow her to leave on time.

The doctor still gets paid because although they are self employed, the practice is contracted to supply a service over a period of a year, which is not based on individual consultations.

You are self-employed - it is the risk you take. If you don't want to take that risk, find a job in a salon where you simply get a wage for your time.

Oswin Fri 14-Jun-13 23:56:35

It's just the nature of the business you work in. You need to keep the customers sweet, because I'm guessing she will have plenty of friends to tell this tale to. That's potential customers lost.

Amazinggg Fri 14-Jun-13 23:57:19

I'm a freelance type in a musical thingy <vague> and someone cancelled last minute literally last week, as it goes, and despite our verbal agreement saying she should have paid, she brought me flowers today. Twas lovely and I didn't remind her that actually she owed me. I have just learnt to be clearer about my T+C in future.

Kneedeepindaisies Fri 14-Jun-13 23:57:28

What do you do is somebody doesn't turn up or cancels at short notice?

Chazz88 Fri 14-Jun-13 23:57:55

My I pad changed the spelling an unfortunately I don't know much about composing so mostly I'm confused reading all your posts,

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 00:03:02

Normally if someone doesn't show up I leave a massage asking them to rebook if they don't I let it do, if someone cancels short notice again I let them off but 3 strikes and I won't allow you to book anymore. But in this case I felt I was right to enforce paymenet as she was standing their 20mins late demanding I still do the full treatment telling me to be late for the next person and wouldn't allow another therapist to do some of the treatment. So as I had tried to fit her in evan tho she was late I didn't see why I should get a pay cut if anything I should of charged more for inconvenience

notapizzaeater Sat 15-Jun-13 00:05:51

I think you handled it badly. If I was running late then I would have been very apologetic and would have accepted u only doing one thing, but if you tried to charge me for both I would have walked out. Yes I was in the wrong being late, yes you where waiting and not earning but sometimes life just gets in the way. The business lost now could be huge because you could bet your house on it she has old some friends who now won't come to you. It's the old adage - the customer is always right - even when they are not !

Amazinggg Sat 15-Jun-13 00:06:32

I think wine that, OP, sometimes it's not about being right. She was wrong to be late. You needed the money. But actually, if you think about it properly, it makes more sense for you to smile through gritted teeth and say 'no worries, if you don't want her to do it, let's rearrange'. As a freelancer I'm constantly being let down by people, and when you're having to arrange childcare based on assuming you're working, it's even harder. But my clients would never know I'm spitting feathers because I'm sweetness and light to them - they may be unreliable and often late or whatever, but at the end of the day they are my boss, collectively, and so I need to be respectful. Or get a new job. Do you see what I mean? It's your choice to do this, if has pros and cons.

lougle Sat 15-Jun-13 00:06:59

Wait a minute...rewind that. Take the record back to the beginning.

If she hadn't turned up at all, you would have let her off, but because she did turn up you want her to pay? How does that work????

That is the most barmy thing I've heard in a long time. You are giving the message that if you're going to be late, just don't turn up at all, because you will get a better deal.

MirandaWest Sat 15-Jun-13 00:07:53

Am enjoying this thread smile

Wuldric Sat 15-Jun-13 00:08:52

Well OP, let's get you into the spirit

After all, when the Wolf's at the door, the only thing I can Berlioz is curling up on the Satie with a nice bit of Glinka smile

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 00:17:17

Its not that i wouldn't want then to pay but I can't drag them in and make them pay. If I asked them to come In And pay they wouldn't do it, I though what this lady did was worse as she showed up late, made a seen, expected me to still do all her treatment, didn't care it would make me late for the next client, wouldn't take my solution of me doing half and other therapist doing the rest.

I didn't want to charge her for not having the treatment I told her that she had to have the other therapist not me as I no longer had time, she didn't want the other person so I said we'll I will do what I can in the time i have but will still have to charge the original treatment price evan if I can't do it all before my next client came in but other therapist could do the rest if she would let them. She didn't want the other therapist to Finnish and also didn't want to pay the full amount. So I had to loose out evan tho it was her that was late and her that then wouldn't compromise onTherapists

DramaAlpaca Sat 15-Jun-13 00:19:46

I'm trying very hard to think of a Sibelius pun wink

notapizzaeater Sat 15-Jun-13 00:20:17

Are you actually reading any of the serious replies ? Everyone agrees she was wrong but you have now blown it out of proportion - sometimes you smile through gritted teeth and mutter when they have gone.

lougle Sat 15-Jun-13 00:21:03

Yes because you are self-employed and that is the risk you take.

You would have been much better to accommodate her lateness and let the other therapist deal with your next client.

You lost sight of your business and got embroiled in the detail of this one transaction.

In fact, you sound like you were actually just cross that she didn't view your time as importantly as you did.

Wuldric Sat 15-Jun-13 00:26:31

Sibelius is on the thread in spirit - he was evoked when the OP stated she wanted to 'Finnish off' something.

DramaAlpaca Sat 15-Jun-13 00:32:06

Exactly, I think there have been two references to "Finnish".

Good old Sibelius.

AgnesBligg Sat 15-Jun-13 00:40:05

Aww OP have a good Sibelius tonight; tomorrow is another Amadeus.

ZacharyQuack Sat 15-Jun-13 00:48:38

The late client turned up at 11:05 and your next client was scheduled at 12:00, so you had 55 minutes. One treatment takes 40 minutes and the other 15/20 minutes, so you could have got them both done in the available 55 minutes, at worst you may have been 5 minutes late. You had a junior therapist available to help with the treatment, or to get the next room set up for the 12:00 client.

Why didn't you just get a move on and do both treatments as you actually had time available, instead of wasting so much time arguing with the client?

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 00:57:28

Omg read all posts or don't bother replying I'm fed up of repeating myself it takes in hour and 15 mins to do the treatment she wanted I could shorten the time down to 40 min 15 mi s if she was prepared to have bits missed out like the magnate in the pedi she did not want this and there was not enough time to do all of it she also didn't want the other therapist to take over from me.

ZacharyQuack Sat 15-Jun-13 01:16:32

It sounds like you run a really relaxing salon. smile

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 01:27:43

I think my point has been completely missed I didn't charge her because I needed the money as such I charged her because she was rude and because she demanded I still do the full treatment and be late for the next person.

If someone came in late said I'm sorry i fully u u understand if you can't do it all Ill rebook my other treatment later in the week I would have been fine yes lateness happens sometimes,

But all my offers to resolve the problem were turned down so seeing as I had given her many options to still have her treatment but she would not budge I felt I should still be payed tbh I
She wasn't coming back anyway as she said if I didn't do all the treatments she would not come back so weather she payed or not she wasn't returning.

I did end up doing the whole full treatment and being late for my next lady who was not best pleased as she was in the salon 5 mins early. I then ran 10 mins late for everyone else for the rest of the day making the hairdressers also run late as some people had appointments with them too. I think I will just start taking payment of longer treatments over the phone when booking.

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 01:31:13

No today was not relaxing at all but not because I wanted the lady to pay but because she wouldn't take no for an answer, I was trying to keep things running smoothly for the rest of my clients today but this lady's selfishness made me run late for everyone. I really don't see how it my fault she wanted the impossible I can't a
Make more time.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Sat 15-Jun-13 02:22:05

I was going to answer sensibly

But then you started whittering on about benefits and showing yourself as one of 'those' kind of people

So now I can't be arsed, though I will say I'm not surprised you have problems with your buisiness if this is how you are all the time

EleanorFarjeon Sat 15-Jun-13 02:25:22

I too came on here expecting a musical dilemma.

Has really made me laugh. Witty vipers..

plannedshock Sat 15-Jun-13 02:41:20

It really pisses me off when people do the " I expect to pay at the dentist but not the hairdressers" we are professionals too. Im self employed and completely understand. I usually have a waiting list and when people don't turn up I lose the money, lose the apt because I can't ring anyone else and say "come now", have child care to pay and still have to pay my rent to be there.
The I'm a regular thing pisses me off too, because I have clients that are notorious for being late, if you are a regular you know how it works.
That said I would have sucked it up and only done what I had time to do and not charged, I would of at least expected a phone call to let me know they were running late.

spondulix Sat 15-Jun-13 02:47:29

Chazz, as someone upthread said, this isn't about being right or wrong. Yes, she was late and she shouldn't have been. But that isn't what she'll be telling her friends - your potential clients. She'll be telling them that you tried to make her pay for a treatment that she wasn't going to get.

It's said that if you have good service you tell four people, but if you have bad service you tell 12. You're letting yourself in for a whole Holst of problems if you don't have a little give to go with the take in your business.

Wait, I thought you said earlier you didn't do the treatments, now you're saying you did & were late through the day?

Oh just read it again & you did the treatment, so I'm even more confused & am going to bow out gracefully to go & work some more to pay my taxes

Groovee Sat 15-Jun-13 08:53:46

I think you should only have charged the 50% not 100%. She did turn up, but late! She needs to accept you are not there to wait on her and conform to her timings.

BinarySolo Sat 15-Jun-13 09:30:10

I'm confused as you said you always left plenty of extra time for appointments then you've said you were behind all day. If each appointment had extra time included you'd have caught up. I suspect you're exaggerating the impact slightly as so many people have said you were unreasonable.

YABU. To make a late customer pay but not a no show. It's unfair to try to charge someone for a service they haven't received. Judging by your attitude here, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what made your customer dig her heels in and be difficult, this appears to be backed up as she complained later about your rudeness.

This is one of the downsides of self employment, if you're at work but not working then you don't get paid. It's annoying but one of those things.

Bigger picture is that your customer service and treatment of this lady has lost you a repeat customer - one who had always been on time in the past. I think you were a bit shortsighted with how you dealt with her.

And pregnancy is not an excuse to be rude to people.

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 10:02:30

Look if you all read my first post you will see that did did in fact carry out the full treatment but only because I was forced to as the lady was making a seen in the shop.

I do leave extra time in treatment for lateness ect but not 20mims extra if I left a 20mim gap between each appointment I would only be able to do half as many people in the day.

Also I had offered her to have the treatment with the other therapist so I would not be late for my next person.

I said to her if she did not except the treatment with the other therapist then she would still be charged the full amount evan if I couldn't do all the treatment in the time that was left. As I had I fact still given her my time by waiting for her.

She was still given the option to her have treatments just with someone else which I thought was a fair compromise seeing as she was the one that was late.

In the end I was 10mims late for my next lady who wasn't best pleased as she had to pick her lo up form half day school.

I was also then running late for everyone else that day.

Sleepyfergus Sat 15-Jun-13 10:53:27

OP - your story seems to be changing and you seem to be quite aggressive. Yes, it's bloody annoying and v rude of the customer to be late, but as countless others have pointed out SEVERAL times, this is unfortunately the downside of self employment and whilst it is inconvenient to you, you have to grit your teeth and politely smile through these sorts of circumstances and notch it up to experience.

And if you can't grasp that, then I think you're in the wrong business.

The musical anecdotes have been hilarious and kept me amused trough an early morning breastfeed! So thanks to everyone for those.

Numberlock Sat 15-Jun-13 10:53:46

Remind me what the question was again...

GibberTheMonkey Sat 15-Jun-13 11:48:33

How much extra (spare) time do you leave for each customer?

Pancakeflipper Sat 15-Jun-13 12:12:15

Numberlock - come on keep up with the tempo. It's mozartly about overtures between the customer and the beauty therapist.

scarlettsmummy2 Sat 15-Jun-13 12:16:53

You sound like a nightmare. I wouldn't use your services again either.

Wuldric Sat 15-Jun-13 12:27:01

Once you've got over the Shostakovich, you'll look back and reflect that you could have Handeled it better

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrsdinklage Sat 15-Jun-13 12:41:16

Is it too early for wine ?

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 15-Jun-13 12:47:27

This is why I love MN, the composer puns are sheer genius.
Op, as others have said, short term you may feel you were right, but long term it really didn't make business sense.
I don't blame you for being annoyed, but you just have to suck it up as so many businesses like yours gain by word of mouth.
And she won't be recommending you any time soon.

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 12:50:02

So none of you think the client is wrong for demanding I still do the treatment evan tho it would make me late for another regular customer, and that her refusal of having a different therapist was unreasonable, and that as it had been her that refused and a different therapist to complete her treatments and that it was her fault she was late I should go with out pay evan tho I had stood their waiting for her when I could of had another client booked.

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 12:53:22

If someone uses a childminder regularly and booked for a certain days for the week and then the mother decided that they did not need to use the child minder that day as they were taking the day off work for some reason the childminder would still be payed evan tho the child did not come to her. How is it different

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 15-Jun-13 12:54:10

Yes the client was being unreasonable.
I've never run my own business but have worked in many public facing roles, and you will always encounter rude people.
You have to learn to grit your teeth and move on.

notapizzaeater Sat 15-Jun-13 12:56:36

No one is saying the customer was right ! She was wrong but you have handled it really really badly. For the sake of £35 you have now probably lost hundreds in repeat/recommendations. I own a business - sometimes even when I am right I have to smile and get on with it.

GibberTheMonkey Sat 15-Jun-13 12:58:29

It's called a contract Chazz

You didn't answer my question, I figueras as much

Dackyduddles Sat 15-Jun-13 13:00:59

I'm a therapist.

Yes you charge for missed apps. I charge 50% up to 24hrs notice. 100% if cancelled on day and no rebook. Rebook I waive the charge if regular or charge 50%.

All apps are back to back. With very little wiggle room. It's a salon not fun! She should have taken the junior. You offered a replacement. (Advertise this!) or rebooked.

I know how you feel but I'm with you op.

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 13:01:12

In this case I'm not too to worried about loosing her as a client as I wouldn't have her back if she tried to rebook as more hassle that worth I just wanted to know if the things she was asking me to do we're infact reasonable. I knew I was going to loose a client when I asked her to pay but I have gone through every other possible option with her to still have her treatment and she refused.

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 13:03:25

Thank you dackyduddles was feeling very ganged up on, could anyone tell me how I quote people on the app as I can't answer specific people as don't know how to quote them. X

Dackyduddles Sat 15-Jun-13 13:03:36

Most here seem to have no idea how a salon works which isn't surprising as why should they? They are on the fun side! So don't take it to heart op. smile best wishes

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 15-Jun-13 13:04:49

It's a salon, not fun
I don't do beauty treatments but I would have thought you go there for an element of pleasure and relaxation.
Therefore fun, as opposed to the dentist, say.
I don't think I'd like your salon very much Dackyduddles.

notapizzaeater Sat 15-Jun-13 13:05:05

But it's not just one client - I have a crap hair do/ meal/ manicure etc I tell lots of people, these people avoid these places, when one of their friends ask they say don't go to xxxxx nota had a bad ...... There - it just snowballs. I would have done the treatments, rushing them and tried to catch up later.

GibberTheMonkey Sat 15-Jun-13 13:07:08

You don't quote people on mn
You write their name and then your answer if you want to reply to them.
Using their initials is ok as long as its obvious

Dackyduddles Sat 15-Jun-13 13:07:13

In a decent salon one client shouldn't actually matter either ;) my suggestion is do a pamper night and send her a voucher for something free. She will come back if she usually likes you.

LeGavrOrf Sat 15-Jun-13 13:08:29

I am really laughing at 'she won't be Bach' and 'don't be wagners'

I had some sympathy with you OP until you started calling people benefit scum - what is wrong with you? there is no need to be aggressive.

I would say that a lot of people on this thread have jobs anyway. Involving the ability to write.

Dackyduddles Sat 15-Jun-13 13:09:24

Lady beagle I mean for us it's not fun it's work. Wedo it for work yes we like it but its business. For clients it fun and we make sure it is calm tranquil and pretty.

LeGavrOrf Sat 15-Jun-13 13:09:36

I do think people should pay for missed appointments though.

Tinyfeetbiggob Sat 15-Jun-13 13:16:19

Agree with Dacky - if you are too accommodating word gets around - wasted time because someone is late and hasn't bothered to let you know adds up surprisingly quickly over a week/month/year which corresponding translates into lost money you won't get Bach if you don't have some sort of cancellation policy.

If she'd started the next appointment later if I was the next client ( who was presumably punctual ) I'd be very annoyed at having to hang around and having my time wasted because someone else is incapable of being on time so probably wouldn't come back - I know which of the two customers I'd rather have : )

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 13:17:28

I'm sorry I was very angry when I wrote that about benefits as no one was taking my post seriously taking about completely different stuff and ignoring my question completely. As tho my job was worthless as I was just a therapist but it is the way I make money and better that not making any for myself.x

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 13:18:53

Thank you tiny feet. X

NicknameIncomplete Sat 15-Jun-13 13:19:29

I havent read all of the posts.

I just wanted to say that i have heard of salons and hairdressers charging for missed appointments. Have even seen ones charging if u cancel within 24 hours of ur appointment.

I think u should have done the one treatment and told her if she was late again you would make her pay in full for any treatments booked in.

Sometimes u have to take a hit when u run a business.

This thread has had me in stitches.

OP, I do feel for you, but I've been to a variety of hair and beauty salons over the last 15 years or so and sometimes they're running late and sometimes you have to wait, but most people tend to be reasonable about it. Could the junior not have started work on the second lady until you could take over (I may have missed this...) I think getting into a slanging match or heated discussion with customers is never a good idea. I occasionallyhave to deal with some absolute arseholes in my line of work, but alas, that's the joy of working with the general public!

I do agree with others that benefit bashing comment was very odd and unnecessary as it bore no relevance to your issue or the responses to it, plus it was also ill-directed as most people on here probably do work!

Lonecatwithkitten Sat 15-Jun-13 13:29:50

I run a business that is appointment based and due to size this is something I have to consider on a regular basis. I always consider how long the person has been a client, how regularly they use my service and also their position in the local community.
There are some people who I would just see and accept running late with apologies to other clients and others I would stand my ground with. When you stand your ground you will get flak and I always consider that this is part and parcel of being a business owner - you can't please everyone all of the time. I never lose sleep over it.
It's all about the ongoing value of that client.

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 13:36:41

Ethelredonagoodday

The junior did start my next lady in the end, but my point was that the lady that was late didn't want the junior so why should the lady that was on time have to have her. Also the junior is still in training and wasn't actually trained to do the other lady's treatment I just showed her one part of it quick to keep things moving till I could take over.

My benefit bashing post was said in the heat of the moment but it did seam a lot of people were bashing my job when some of them properly don't work as if they did work they wouldn't of said some of the stupid comments they said

Chazz88 Sat 15-Jun-13 13:43:07

Lone cat with kitten- my next client that I was in the end late for and had to have the junior therapist start her treatment was actually a more regular and higher spending client than the one that was late. I explained to her but she could have been annoyed I made her late.

I think now that I should have just said no to doing the treatment and let her go without paying but she wouldn't be happy regardless as she wanted me to do the treatment so she still wouldn't of been back, just at the time it seamed unfair for her to put me in a position to loose money when I had set up for her treatment got the room ready waited and waited then not earn any money all because she was late and would not compromise on therapist.

JenaiMorris Sat 15-Jun-13 13:43:33

I think the OP's right, actually.

A nice compromise might have been to offer to do the other treatment later in the day, but offering the services of the junior was plenty fair enough.

Of course I understand this because I am not on benefits <runs>

PseudoBadger Sat 15-Jun-13 14:04:17

You don't sound very Prokofiev I'm afraid. You Mussorgsky your appointments better.

Dackyduddles Sat 15-Jun-13 16:28:31

Chazz everyone assumes a therapist is ditzy. Regardless of whether self employed or salon. Nobody looks beyond the art of painting nails. I know you have sat numerous exams practically and theory based in order to perform the tasks you do. (I'm one too incase anyone wonders) I know these cost a fortune. I know how hard it is balancing clients. I understand the difficulties of managing costs and equipment and profits and staff issues.

Unfortunately some never look past the make up and outfit. Because I assume if you could you would do something else.... It's a bit snobby at times and down right rude at others. You asked a sensible business question originally. Went a bit weird when you plainly felt picked on but picked up after.

Don't sweat it. Nobody means it really. It's just words on a screen. Sticks n stones eh? Have a wonderful night. X

Dackyduddles Sat 15-Jun-13 16:32:38

Don't forget u run your own business. That's pretty bloody marvellous in anyone's book no matter what your subject. Many would like to do similar in something they love.

Rarely see unhappy therapists or hairdressers. smile

lougle Sat 15-Jun-13 22:42:12

Dackyduddles usually if someone asks 'did I handle this right' (let's ignore the spelling error), then they actually want to know if they handled a situation correctly.

If 30-40 people say 'No, you made a mistake' the right thing to do is to accept that and learn from it. Not simply tell people they are wrong.

fuckwittery Sat 15-Jun-13 22:58:32

Thing is, you cant actually enforce payment can you unless you are going to go to court for 35 quid. So suggesting she paid full price was never going to work even though she was a pain in the arse for being 20 minutes late and unapologetic and refusing to drop one treatment or have the junior therapist. you were never going to get the money out of her so best thing would be to decide whether or not it was worth losing a customer and possibly word of mouth reputation over, suck it up and do your best, which I think you did but you should have either stuck to your guns and said no I cant do both or did it not to risk her, suggesting charging full price was just in the end irrelevant.

On an aside, no good at puns but I bloody love Mumsnet

fuckwittery Sat 15-Jun-13 22:59:26

Not to risk losing her as customer.
i hate this effing ipad

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