how do I deal with snipes, jibes and yes, I guess you could call it, harassment...

[peanutbrittle]

so, not to many details in case RL intervenes but the basics:

I am a senior manager in tiny company - there are only 20 of us, there are two MDs to whom I report. they are both fairly brusque individuals, hard to get on with but we manage. One of them seems to have a bit of a superiority complex (he is very clever, but boy does he relish reminding everyone)which I can generally take. I've always managed. They piss me off periodically and I get irate about things but I get over it.

My GP wanted to sign me off for stress recently after one particular incident that I found difficult to deal with (basically he humiliated me over a stupid thing in a meeting) but I decided to stick it out. Last week there was another incident, this time in writing over email in which I was trying to be helpful about something and he retorted with a very superior response, basically putting me in my place and ensuring I would never challenge his superior judgement again.

Then yesterday, again in a meeting, when I mentioned that I wasn't happy with my laptop's performance (which I have reported on a number of occasions to no avail) he asked "oh what is it? don't you like the colour?" I was dumbfounded, though I don't know why as this is exactly the sort of stuff he does again and again. He always says something like "oh that was a joke" or "I shouldn't have said that" afterwards but I don't think that is any excuse. I didn't say anything there and then but I am starting to think I need to.

I've suffered from (probably stress induced) depression for about 18 mths and have had low self esteem for years but I have been working on helping myself over the past couple of years. Maybe I am now finally feeling confident/assertive enough to try to deal with this. I am totally sick of it.

any thoughts on what I should do , how I could approach this?

At the moment I just feel like emailing him and telling him exactly how I feel...possibly wouldn't be my wisest move! or maybe it would...

[TheOldestCat]

You poor thing. I wouldn't email at this stage - is he approachable? Could you suggest a coffee and a chat, then explain how his comments are making you feel?

Or am I being too optimistic?

[peanutbrittle]

maybe, am not sure - he can be ok at times but ultimately he is a macho-techno-superio idiot as far as I can see. And I am not great at confrontation. I suppose I want to let him know that were I a different person I could well be thinking sexual harassment cases here. I think I probably would have one.

However the approach you suggest is probably the correct one. Am just not sure what it would change. And he'll probably just go around saying I've suffered a sense of humour failure!

I have already raised it with the other MD, who just said he didn't know what to do about his attitude to staff (it's not just me, although maybe I get a bit more of it due to being a woman - there are only two of us here)

[peanutbrittle]

ooh, maybe you lot think I am just a paranoid whinger...yikes ...maybe I am...

or is it just quiet in this area of the board?

[slug]

you could try couching it in business terms. e.g. "When you treat me like this I become stressed. My doctor is concerned enough about my stress levels to want to sign me off. This will cost the company ££ and, if you fail to address your behaviour, may result in me being forced to bring a grievance and possibly, further down the line, a harassment case. This would cost the company many ££. There is no limit on the payouts in sexual harassment cases. Do you really want to bankrupt the company simply so you can stroke your own ego at my expense?"

[lal123]

sexual harassment? I do think that his behaviour is unacceptable, but I don't think it would classify as sexual harassment?

[racmac]

You need to be blunt and tell him its not acceptable and that its patronising and undermining - he sounds like a bully - you MUST stand up to him. Ask for a formal meeting - ask the other MD to sit in.

It doesnt matter if he thinks it is ok - its the effect its having on you thats important - doesnt sound like sexual harassment to me he just sounds like a complete twat and needs telling so

[flowerybeanbag]

Strongly disagree with slug, that's way over the top and will probably end any chance of an effective, productive working relationship at this point.

LeninGrad's advice is good. I don't think you should get anyone else involved at this point. He obviously feels he can get away with behaving like this to you, and you need to challenge him yourself, ideally every single time, so that it becomes more hassle than it's worth for him to do it, and he becomes very quickly aware that you are not going to put up with it.

[peanutbrittle]

thanks

leningrad your approach is so sensible I must just work up the courage and do it

although I do like slug's approach too and will hold it in reserve

they should already know I have been stressed - we've been very busy and everyone has tbh, indeed when I broached the subject of this guy's behaviour with the other MD he tried to excuse it as side effect of stress, but I was having none of it

I then chose to work at home the day after I braoched it with the other MD and when he queried this I said simply that I needed some time away from the office. I worked at home one day and was back in the next.

I feel glad that you agree it isn't acceptable and empowered a bit by your responses, thanks

lal123 - the only reason i think there are shades of sexual harassment is things like the comment about the colour of my laptop being what made me not happy with it (I couldn't give a toss, obviously I just want the damn thing to do what I need)and also his approach to my role in general - it is a technical company and although I have a long distant technical past I have for the past 15 years worked in more managerial side of things, project management particularly, and he totally disses this, saying (in not so many words) that it is just admin and anyone could do it. Now maybe that is not a sexual thing but it kind of feels like it has shades of it...

the gp reckons I need an exit strategy so I am working on one, but lately some other more junior colleagues have come to me with issues about this bloke too and I just feel something needs to be done...

[peanutbrittle]

thanks racmac and flowerybeanbag too - X posts

I like the idea of asking for meeting with the other MD there too. in fact i think I will do that and take leningrads approach when in there.

although I guess they could both just gang up on me then...

ok, maybe will think about this a tad longer...hmmm...

[warthog]

well i had something similar when i used to work in an investment bank. that sort of thing was very common - very few women around. if you complained you were seen as 'soft', so it was very much part of the culture although ironically since all the multimillion dollar harassment cases were being won by women in the states they started to pull up their socks.

my boss used to make comments like yours did all the time.

so one day i bought a special small book that i carried everywhere with me. every time he came out with one of these gems i would get my book out and write down the comment, the date and the time. he stopped. i also used to joke about how i was looking forward to retiring on the proceeds from my harassment claim.

[peanutbrittle]

good for you warthog! it's a bugger. I will raise it with him calmly and then buy my little black book. I look forward to that actually. And I can do it in a jokey way that let's him know I am quite serious really.

It's this being taken soft, or as having a sense of humour failure - that's their get out clause every time - drives me bonkers

one poor guy who has recently started is wishing he could go back to an office full of women!

[peanutbrittle]

thanks leningrad - am glad to hear you are getting it sorted out - did you request a meeting with your tormentor just 1 to 1 then? god I am such a wimp it terrifies me! but I have really had enough now

wrt whether I should take up issues on behalf of othet staff, it's a tricky one. Apparantly (so I was told the other day) my role includes HR now (primarily because I am a woman and empathetic to the other staff I get the feeling, also because I push for regular appraisals for the staff etc) but I think in this instance I may leave it for now at least

it can always be raised quite separately in the future

[Snowstorm]

I always worked in male dominated environments and would be extremely wary about labelling something as sexual harassment if it's not, as it won't do you or any other female any favours.

If I was in your situation then I think I would wait until this guy was next rude to you and then afterwards I'd pick the person to whom I liked/trusted the best and go and have a quiet word with them. See if they found this guy's comment as damning as you thought it was. I say this because if you are not braced for this man's sarcasm/whatever then there is the possibility that that is how you are interpreting his reaction to you and actually, maybe he treats everyone like this.

If he treats everyone in this way then I might consider going and talking to someone senior about it. If he treats just you like this then I would probably be tempted to go into his office and say something along the lines of 'You appear to have a problem with me. Can we sort that out so that so that I have a better understanding of your expectations and so that I can get on with my job.'

I don't know whether that's good advice or bad but in my experience (particularly as a woman in an office dominated by men), if you start displaying signs of being over-sensitive (and I'm not saying you are by tthe way); or are unable to take criticism unless it's dressed up in niceties; or are unable to speak, when it's called for, in a direct manner (like men tend to do on the whole), and you start talking about sexual-harassment and stress ... then you are kind of signing your own death warrant, job-wise. I don't mean to sound harsh and none of that might be applicable to you and your situation but that's my take on office-life in that kind of environment.

You should probably ignore me though ... because I'm afraid to say (braces self and prepares to get ripped to shreds for this) that I thought that the 'why don't you like the colour' thing was quite funny.

In any case, I hope you manage to work it all out in a satisfactory way. Good luck.

[Justhadenoughandsnapped]

Hi,

Just wanted to offer you some support.

I've been in a new workplace for over 1 year now & work with 1 other person. He's male, in his forties.

He's not my boss, he's just been there 2 years longer than me, I was brought in to replace a lady who left.

Anyway, he was OK at the beginning, supportive, offering advice where he saw fit & i always took his advice, thanking him etc..

After about 6 months I came out of my 'L plates' so to speak & was offered a permanent job and since then he has done nothing but nitpick & say hurtful things.

It's a very small office, him & me doing one job, one other male doing a different job, and a receptionist (being deliberately vague)

He says things like "Perhaps in future you could be quiet qhwn I am working" (Yeah...even if there's another person in the room requiring answers/on phone!!)

He often tells me there's not enough work for 2 of us, as the lady before worked part time......

He has, more than once, shouted at me, snapped his fingers when I wasn't quick enough passing him something and told a client on the phone that I was his 'help'..which is bollox.

Everything came to a head last week & I have put in a complaint about him. When I went to my actual boss (who is in a different town) he said he knows what he is like, for me to try & ignore it but let him know when he should step in, even though he doesn't want to . I told the man I work with I wanted treated with respect, I was not a dog, he did not need to bark orders at me & I also was not a child of 4 who needed chastised all the time.... he said he will "work on it"

If it gets worse I won't go to anyone else, i'll go straight to the top!

What I wanted to say to you was perhaps you could try & discuss it with your MD one to one? Maybe get him to see what he's doing? or has it gone past that stage?

[Justhadenoughandsnapped]

Obv I name changed as I'm always afraid of work finding out what I do in my spare time!!!

[Snowstorm]

God - sorry for the appalling English and typos ... my message box slipped sideways and I couldn't see/check what I'd written on the left hand side, hence the duplications of words etc.

2nd para's supposed to read: "if you are NOW braced".

[Justhadenoughandsnapped]

I agree with measured and reasonable tone...I cried

which prompted him to say "God, you're so emotional' and then turn his back....which made me see red!

[warthog]

i did what you suggested to my boss, leningrad, and unfortunately he didn't take me seriously. that's why i started logging all the comments. i think if i hadn't had the talk first, he probably wouldn't have taken me seriously later.

so it's definitely the right route to go down.

i think in your situation, peanut brittle, because you're a senior manager, you need to try and sort as much of this out yourself first. your other boss doesn't want to get involved. so if this final plan doesn't work, is there a last-resort person you can take it up with? the ceo or chairman?