Been Made Redundant, Where do I Stand?

[Lisa229]

Got into work Monday to be told I have been made redundant. One other person plus one other from a choice of 3 which has not been decided yet. Why I was chosen was quite vague, something about skill sets.Want me to work until 21st Feb but will pay me up to the 5th Feb, which I guess is the month notice period. I was in shock when told as even though I knew redundancies might have been pending, it was all hearsay.

Anyway, got home last night and spoke to a couple of friends, one a HR manager, one a solicitor and also called ACAS. Basically they said he didn't follow the correct procedure, that there should have been a consultation period and a written letter (he only told me verbally) and that the selection process should have been explained etc etc etc. Also on my contract, it states 1 month notice for 1st 4 years service and 1 weeks notice for every year after that. I have worked for them for 10 yrs so I should get 10 weeks notice. All this together makes me think that I have a good case for unfair dismissal. I don't really want to go down that route but I want to make sure I get what I am entitled to plus more if possible. What is the best thing to do. Friend suggested waiting until he comes back with a written and then responding after that. Those that have been through it, your help would be appreciated? I only work 3 days a week and I have a feeling I am going because of the big salary I have compared to those that are full time due to my length of service. Should I speak to about the siutation first?

Also what are rights regarding benefits. DH has an OK job and if we scrimped and saved we could get by but am I entitled to job seekers allowance, unemployment benefit, other benefits or will they look at our earnings and say we don't count as we earn too much?

Sorry for waffling....it's a horrible time....any help would be appreciated.

[flowerybeanbag]

Based on what you've said, this is unfair dismissal. There are several basic requirements they have to follow to make someone redundant, and they haven't done it.

When you say your friend said waiting until he comes back with a written, what does that mean? Are you expecting a letter? Have you been told one is on the way?

You need to appeal this properly, there's lots wrong with it, some to do with not following the procedure, other stuff you might feel applies about unfair selection.

Not sure what you mean by getting what you are entitled to 'plus more'. I think you need to manage your expectations more, you're not going to get more than you're entitled to. If you successfully claim unfair dismissal then compensation will purely be based on financial loss that has resulted from your employer's actions - there's no element to compensate you for poor treatment.

See here about redundancy, including an explanation of the legal process they need to follow and your rights to consultation.

[Lisa229]

Thank you for your quick response.

Sorry, was typing fast and missed some words at. At the end of the meeting, the boss said he would speak to payroll and draw up a letter detailing what I am entitled to, hopefully by next week. My friend said that it would be best to wait until I get the letter and then respond to it detailing how I feel it is unfair dismissal, that he didn't follow the right procedure and that I am actually entitled to 10 weeks notice plus 10 yrs service redundancy plus any owed holiday. Plus to compensate for the fact that he hasn't followed the correct procedure re selection process. Plus I am not actually redundant until I getwritten confirmation which my contract states.

What you think is the best way forward? Thank you again for your help.

[MadameCastafiore]

Lisa - there is a thing in the Times today about greivances and appeal processes - think you might be able to go into it online - looked right up your street.

[flowerybeanbag]

The best way forward is to appeal the decision, as soon as you have written confirmation of your redundancy. You will need to draft an appeal document outlining each and every way the dismissal was unfair. You will need to put every single instance where they didn't follow a fair or legal procedure.

You will then need to explain why it was also not fair to select you above anyone else, if you think that.

It will need to be a fairly long and detailed document I'm afraid to maximise your chances of success should you go to a tribunal. However as most of your complaints can be fairly objectively proved, it shouldn't be too difficult. It's just a case of getting all the right points down with the right supporting information and evidence.

You don't get money to compensate for them not following the procedure. Compensation is based on financial loss not on how bad their behaviour was. If you successfully claim unfair dismissal you may get some compensation to reflect the financial loss you have made as a result. You are also expected to mitigate this loss yourself in the meantime by looking for another job.

If you find another job, your actual financial loss will be small, so your compensation will also be small, and may be limited to the notice and redundancy pay you are entitled to only. If you can't find a job, obviously your financial loss is higher so your compensation will be higher.

[Idrankthechristmasspirits]

Sorry to hear you have been made redundant. I can't advise on the employment side of things, I think flowery is doing a fab job of that.

You should be entitled to contributions based Jobseekers allowance of i think about £80 a week. I was able to claim this the last time i was made redundant even though my partner was earning a good wage. I was also entitled to child benefit.
Best wishes. x

[Lisa229]

ok, so sit tight until I get the letter?

Flowerybeanbag, so am I right to hope that when I send him a letter back detailing the complaints that rather than go all the way to a tribunal he will cough up what I am entitled to, eg 10 weeks notice pay, 10 weeks redundancy pay, untaken holiday pay, pay to compensate for private health care and private pension contribution during notice period. And that I am not actually redundant until the date of the letter?

[wannaBe]

sympathies.

Firstly, I agree with your friend in terms of waiting for the redundancy offer before deciding what course of action you want to take. If HR are drawing up the letters then it's entirely possible that they will be doing so whilst taking your current contract into consideration.

Legally you are entitled to 1 week's salary or £330 (whichever is the lesser amount) for every year's service. Add to that the 10 weeks salary you would be owed due to your contract and your legal redundancy entitlement is 20 weeks salary.

In terms of a consultation period, iirc there only has to be a consultation period if the company is making more than 20 employees redundant, so this wouldn't apply in your situation.

Your boss has informed you that you will be receiving a letter detailing that you are being made redundant, so although he has told you verbally you are going too be made aware of this in writing.

Not sure how you will be able to claim unfair dismissal tbh. If the company is restructuring etc and there are redundancies then someone has to go.

I know it's really shit but tbh you need to see what kind of package you're being offered first, because even if you did decide to go to court it could end up costing you more or you could end up with less.

[wannaBe]

you couldn't ask for pay to compensate for private health care. If you have private healthcare as part of your benefits package then this benefit should apply for your notice period, but you wouldn't receive money instead.

[flowerybeanbag]

The letter should tell you the effective date of your redundancy.

Yes hopefully when you put in your letter he will then pay you your redundancy pay and notice pay to take you up to 10 weeks notice. You wouldn't necessarily get pay to compensate for loss of private health care and pension contributions. If your contract gives your employer the right to pay in lieu of notice they might not need to pay those.

You can certainly claim unfair dismissal as you have been dismissed unfairly. Unfair dismissal is not usually just (or even at all) about whether the decision to dismiss was fair or reasonable, it's more often about whether a legal and fair process was followed in order to dismiss the person.

If you ended up in a tribunal your company would pay your notice and redundancy pay but they may argue that no further compensation is due because although they did it unfairly, you would have been made redundant anyway so your financial loss as a result of their unfair procedure is minimal.

In terms of consultation, even individual redundancies need consultation. If it's 20 or more, then collective consultation applies, where a trade union or elected representative needs to be consulted. But individual consultation applies otherwise.

[flowerybeanbag]

wannabe she could be entitled to financial compensation for loss of private health care. If her employer does not have the right to pay in lieu of notice, then failing to give the required notice is breach of contract. In that instance paying in lieu of that notice is in effect compensation and should take into account all benefits that would have applied during that period.

That's why most sensible employers have a PILON clause in their contracts.

[Lisa229]

thanks you guys for your continued advice, I really appreciate it.

So is it legal for to give me a letter say next week dated 19th Jan stating I am being made redundant as of the 5th Jan or should the redundancy start on the 12th Jan because my contract states I should be given notice of termination in writing, ie can he backdate it like that? As it would mean an extra weeks money if it is based on the date I receive the letter? Does that make sense, sorry waffling a bit....

Would I get more arguing the unfair selection process and that I don't think he has looked at it fairly across the board.

If I'm honest I don't want the hassle of going to a tribunal and I have a feeling he won't want the headache of that either. So do you think that if I say everything in my letter about what he did wrong and what I am due and that I am willing to not go to tribunal if he offers an extra 2 months salary for it. Basically from looking at part time jobs available at the moment, they are only paying at best 10K less than what I am currently on, so I am not even going to break even if I take one of these jobs. So the money I get isn't going to last me that long....

[wannaBe]

no no don't negotiate.

If you're writing a letter then stipulate the points, i.e. where the process was followed wrongly and your reasons for believing this is unfair dismissal. But don't offer them anything - it is down to them to decide whether they want to settle.

Remember though there's a chance they will decide not to settle and be prepared to go to a tribunal - are you prepared to do that?

[flowerybeanbag]

Agree with wannabe, certainly don't make them an offer, you have to at least pretend you are prepared to go to a tribunal.

You need to mention all the points where they have not followed a fair procedure, and point out where what they are paying you is wrong, based on what their letter says. Then they'll respond, ideally after taking some advice, and will probably come back with an offer of some description.

Your redundancy will be effective the date they say. You mentioned earlier about asking you to work until 21st February but only paying you til 5th February? Obviously you can't be asked to work if they're not paying you, but your redundancy will take effect on the date they specify as your last date in employment. If they haven't given you 10 weeks notice of this date, they will have to pay you in lieu of all or some of that period.

Have you not been told what your last day in work will be?

[Lisa229]

sorry, it was work until 21st Jan, paid 5th feb which I think he was basing on the one months notice.

So my last working day is 21st Jan. Would I get 10 weeks pay from this date or would I only get 10 weeks pay less the days I've worked from 5th-21st Jan....my contract says written notice so should it not be notice from the letter date if he has not followed the correct procedure?

flowerybeanbag and wannabe, you have been godsend, thank you

[flowerybeanbag]

If your contract says written notice then the notice period should start from the date of the letter.

[Lisa229]

No letter forthcoming yesterday and I am not at work now until Monday. If he doesn't give me something I will ask him for it and say that I am unhappy with how the situation has been handled.

[Lisa229]

Flowerybeanbag, would appreciate some more advice.

I sent my boss a letter and he has sent back a letter offering a compromise agreement. Is the sum taxable? In the compromise agreement it says he is giving it to me tax free but that it is my responsibility for any schedule e income tax or NI? Am I worse or better off this way? He has offered a lump sum, how do I work out what I would have got from my redandancy package to see what extra he has given me ?

He had originally stated my notice period started from the 5th Jan until the 5th Feb. Following my letter, I am currently in a consultation period and my contract is terminated on the 21st Jan so I have gained 3 extra weeks pay out of it I guess.....

Do I need to get someone legal to look at the contract?

[flowerybeanbag]

Broadly speaking payment to which you are contractually entitled are taxable, other payments often aren't. Redundancy pay isn't taxable up to a maximum of (I think) £30k.

In terms of redundancy, if you've been there for 10 years you would be entitled to 10 weeks notice, plus 10 weeks redundancy pay. The redundancy pay element is capped at £330 for a week's pay.

if your contract says your employer can pay you in lieu of notice, the notice pay will be taxable. If they terminate you immediately or with less notice, and pay you in lieu, but there is no provision in the contract to do that, then that bit will probably not be taxable.

You do need to get the compromise agreement checked by a solicitor, and your employer must pay for that, up to a reasonable level, just for a solicitor to check it over for you and make sure it's all fair and above board.

[ilovelovemydog]

Flowery is right, but it depends what catagory is cited in the Compromise Agreement. Pay in lieu of notice, is taxable, but severance pay isn't, iirc.

The tricky part is that the negotiation part tends to be before a solicitor gets involved as they tend to just read the final document, so it's worth getting advice re: what's taxable and what's not as this makes a difference to the final figure.

DWP and Inland Revenue would know.