Bullying...should I confront them

[aidansyummymummy]

I returned to work after taking Maternity leave and have been flexible and helped out on another section as and when they needed helping out. I have now had a semi permament move to that section and am happy enough with the move although it I am a little rusty and sometimes needs refreshing on the technical issues. However overall I am one of the most experienced and respected members of staff and also get on with most people across all the different sections.

However certain people have taken to making snide and rude comments to me and belittling me. There is a trio of women who sit behind me and they make little comments all day long about whatever I happen to say. What annoys me is one of these people is really bad at her job and has always been carried by other members. Shes has issues with me and has always been allowed to get away with nasty comments as management percieve us to have "history" as i had difficulty with her general attuide whilst I was her Mentor. She is also techincally unable to do her job without constant help. I have had enough of the way she is talking to me and the deputy is one of the trio.

The other big problem is the other Team leader who I do not report to has been making comments and generally on my back all the time. Suggestions from me are ignored when ideas are sought. In meetings she talks over or down to me. If I need to ask questions of one of her team she asked what I want...in a rude unhelpful way.

What do I do? I have ignored it for too long now and have no faith in management. This team leader has already been moved twice...and bullying was the reason on the (pretty reliable) grapevine.

I now feel like taking her to one side tomorrow and asking if she has any problems with me and if now could she please start talking to me better. Even her team are appalled by what she is doing to me....some colleagues have witnessed it and asked why i am tolerating it.

Sorry for the long post but I am just at the end of my tether...and short of getting signed off (which wont solve anything longterm) I dont know what to do!

[thisisyesterday]

no, I wouldn't talk to them direct. because if you do they could turn it round and claim you have a problem with them.

go above them. to whoever you need to to get it sorted out.

[flowerybeanbag]

Agree with Marx, challenge them.

I would also advise having a long hard, honest thing about why you think this is happening. If you can identify and understand exactly why something's happening it can often help you do something about it.

Obviously it's not remotely acceptable behaviour on their part, but try and work out why these people are doing it, and why they are doing it to you particularly. Is there anything in your own behaviour that's partly responsible? Are you giving off the impression that they can get away with whatever they like and you won't challenge it/report them? Do you need to project a more assertive impression generally?

I'm implying no criticism of you at all, and I'm not saying their behaviour is justified in any way, but unless they are this way with everyone there is something about you and about your relationship with these people that means they think this is acceptable and will not result in any negative consequence for them. Have a think about it.

[aidansyummymummy]

Thanks guys

I was thinking of next time there is a snide comment asking sying "Pardon, what did you just say" and if they repeat it ask them not to speak to me like that again.

My team leader is away and the deputy is one of the bullys.

[hecate]

if you are able, i think looking her in the eye and calmly saying to her "Please do not speak to me like that." when she does it, would be best. right there and then, in front of everyone.

If she tries to say she wasn't doing anything, you can say "Your tone was...patronising/rude/whatever, and I think that was unnecessary."

Calm. Firm. Polite. but above all, tackled at the time - each time.

[aidansyummymummy]

flowerbeanbag.....i know what you are saying.

My previous role (that I was given) involved checking their work. No one likes having work returned but most colleagues were adult like and although they didnt like it could also see I didnt enjoy it either!

The problem is I am very good at what I do and I will look at guidance if i feel something is being done wrong. And if Im right then I explain it and if Im wrong I admit it....tell them I am and say sorry I messed up!

[aidansyummymummy]

hecate...thats exactly what I need to say...

[flowerybeanbag]

hecate's advice is excellent. Make sure there is an uncomfortable negative consequence every single time something happens. It will very soon become not worth the trouble for them to do it.

[hecate]

agree. they won't repeat it! They will laugh/giggle/sneer and say "nothing".

Far better I agree to say "Why did you just say ?" and go down the "please do not speak to/about me like that" route.

[Salleroo]

Why do women do this to each other and then complain that they cant earn the same salary as men, get promoted enough etc? I've never had a female boss who didnt think that her job was threatened by her subs. Sad!

They sound like a complete bunch of childish bullying bitches.

The advice abouve is sound, if you are strong enough to face up to them then you will be the victor.

[aidansyummymummy]

Thank you guys. You have given me really good advice. Am going to write a few of those phrases down as my memory is bad since having baby!

Do you also think i should keep a note of incidents incase it does need to go further? If it goes to official complaint which in the case of the team leader im prepared to do then Im worried my memory will fail me!

[Portofino]

Salleroo - you know, I never thought about this before, but in my experience you are right! My best, most empowering bosses have always been men! I have worked for 2 women before.

The first turned was always lovely until I'd been there a while and started suggesting things/volunteering for things - eg i edited the company newsletter for a while. Then she turned into super bitch. Insisted I washed up a load of left for a week coffee cups complete with full on dried mould and then got huffy when i told her I thought it was unaccpetable.

The second always took the side of my (well known to be a complete fuckwit lazy arse) male colleague telling me "I was making a fuss about nothing" when i suggested he wasn't pulling his weight, organising unnecessary trips and leaving me to do his work.

In this day and age, it quite frankly scares me that women are behaving in such a childish and petty manner (as described by the OP) in the workplace! Surely we should be sticking together!

[Salleroo]

I've had a few evils in my time, whereas my male bosses have been really supportive of ideas and suggestions and happy for me to take credit where it was due.

I'm happy I'm out of the whole corporate workforce and dont have to deal with what was essentially 'a bag of cats' when the 2 males were out of the office.

I dont plan on going back to a corporate workforce but you never know; but I'll tell you one thing, I'll think twice before ever accepting a job supervised by a woman again.

AYM, absolutely note all incidents. It's amazing how you forget and even more amazing how juvenile they will read back!

[aidansyummymummy]

The problem is in my office it is mainly woman. There are only 3 men compared to 30 woman on my section! If there were more men then maybe this wouldnt be allowed to happen. One of the preople who asked me why I tolerated it was one of the men on our section. This highlighted to me that I wasnt being paranoid or over sensitive.

Our management is also littered with bullys right up to the top, there is a real bullying culture. Even the best team leaders acknowledge it goes on but they are powerless to stop it.

Am going start challenging the behaviour now and make the union rep aware via email. He doesnt work on site. Will also email my team leader once she returns as at the moment the deputy will open it.

[Portofino]

Aidan, are the Management Bullies women too? I don't think you are being over sensitive at all. It sounds to me like you are a professional person who cares about doing a good job.

It's always difficult to tell the full story in this environment. Maybe the other women are jealous. Maybe you could have been more sensitive when returning work in the past. I hope your team leader/union rep can help with this. It's stressful enough going to work without a load of silly bints making it worse!

[aidansyummymummy]

Yes most of the management are woman...the main one is the worst bully of them all. There are also some men who are just as bad.....its a government department i work in and to be honest all the policies are just lip service. Unless it goes to investigation then nothing will change.

My team leader is also a friend so it makes it harder for her to deal with this as shes also friends with the others. This in itself is a problem as its allowed the behaviour to go unchallenged.

[Portofino]

Aah the govt dept thing makes a lot of sense. The private co i worked for here, merged with the parent co which is mostly govt owned, and the place is stuffed with fuckwits jobsworths, who do nothing, complain that they are overworked, and go long term sick at the slightest sign of stress.

I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown, but when I say anything to my boss, he tells me that he has a (one) new project to work on and is so busy he needs an assistant. I can tell you - he does not know the meaning of "busy" and goes home at 4pm.

How easy would it be for you to escape and do something else?

[aidansyummymummy]

I wish i could escape but have zero confidence. Being a civil servant they kinda knock it out of you. Plus am now a lone parent so need the security the job offers especially in the current climate.

[Grammaticus]

Can you explain what you mean by "a real bullying culture"?

[unavailable]

Whoahh, easy, everyone. I felt bad for you in your first post op, and thought you got some constructive advice, but then the thread took a weird turn. Why is it when one woman boss is rubbish , it translates to ALL women are rubbish bosses , in some peoples minds. What is your problem sisters?

[aidansyummymummy]

The senior manager leds by bullying people. If you say something that isnt what she wants to hear she shots you down, often in public in front of everyone. Makes you look like a complete fool even though your colleagues agree with you. people are too scared to talk to her. She has several managers who she allows to bully their staff...imimidate and also breech policies like when staff return to work after mat leave or ask for a reduction in hours.

Complaints of bullying have resulted in people being moved off sections to another team but not dealt with. (this however is grapevine but has according to it has happened twice to TL who is bullying me and was actually a TL who told me this)

[aidansyummymummy]

Hi unavailable...dont want thread to turn into all woman bosses are bad thread either....just appears to be some peoples experiences unfortunatly.

BTW the last female office managers we had were fantastic.....long may they return and peace be restored!

[Portofino]

Unavailable - I didn't meam to imply either that all women bosses are terrible, but i have had bad experiences. And it sounds like others have had too. If you put it to a vote though, probably people could suggest they have had many terrible male bosses too, and some super female ones....

Methinks there is an interesting thesis subject in here for a Social Scientist....though probably been done to death...