Redundancy question

[Libra1975]

If you are on maternity leave when your job is chosen for redundancy do they have to wait until you return for your notice period to start or can they make you take your notice period whilst on maternity leave and thus save them your notice period salary?

Thanks in advance.

[flowerybeanbag]

Libra as I understand it this isn't actually entirely clear in law yet, it's one of those things that's still being explored.

In terms of when your notice period actually would be, it would be (for example) a month from the date you are notified. It wouldn't be delayed for any reason. It's not a question of them making you take your notice period at a certain time, your notice period automatically starts when you are given notice. The requirement is that they give employees a certain amount of notice of the redundancy, notice in terms of time, and they would be doing that if you were on maternity leave, it would just happen that you were not earning during your notice period.

However you could make the argument that they should pay you in lieu of notice pay that you would have received if you had been at work on sex discrimination grounds because you are disadvantaged because of your maternity leave. Tricky one though. Not something I'd advise taking on unless you are prepared to go through a tribunal, so unless it's huge amounts of money it's probably not worth it.

For what it's worth, if I were advising an employer, I'd probably advise them to pay notice pay to employees on maternity leave to be safe.

Are you satisfied that the redundancy is fair? While on maternity leave you have extra protection, and if there is a suitable alternative role anywhere in the company, it must be allocated to you as a priority.

[Theochris]

I was about to ask the same thing sort of!

Also

If you are made redundant when just starting mat leave. Do they have to continue paying your mat leave money?

I'm entitled to 6 months at enhanced rates then 3 months stat and would be entitled to a reasonable amount of redundancy pay. What would they try to get out of paying if they can? It is unclear from my contract.

Thanks

[Libra1975]

Thanks very much flowerybean. My company has just given notice it intends to make redundancies so I have no idea as yet if my role is to go or not, I was just wondering what would happen re:pay if my role did go. Those 3 months extra salary would come in useful as I don't qualify for redundancy pay being there less than 2 years. Apparently they are going to notify the people at risk of redundancy in Decemeber and I am going back in february, in fact I put my application in to go back part-time today and I am hoping the fact I am volunteering to be on-call the days I am not at work will make them want to keep me, full support for 3/5 market rate pay!! Finding a part-time job in the area I am in will be difficult.
Again thanks for your time.

[flowerybeanbag]

Theo you will be entitled to SMP at the basic rate of 90% for 6 weeks then £117 (or whatever it is now) for the following 33 weeks, as you get that even if you leave employment.

If they want to 'get out' of anything it will be any enhanced maternity pay, depending on the terms and conditions of the enhanced scheme, and notice pay as mentioned above. Any redundancy pay you are entitled to either contractually or on a statutory basis should be based on your pre-maternity leave salary, so they wouldn't be able to get out of that.

[flowerybeanbag]

Libra your extra protection in terms of having to be offered a role in preference to anyone else only applies to your pre-maternity leave terms and conditions, there is no obligation at all for them to find you anything on new hours if that's what you want.

Hopefully, as you say, your proposal will in fact make you more of an attractive prospect to keep anyway as you will be cheaper.

[starmucks]

FBB - sorry about this, clearly this a highly poignant tread given the economic climate - I was under the impression that an employer would hesitate to make a who is pregnant/on maternity leave redundant for fear of being accused of sex discrimination.

[Libra1975]

Thanks again.

Interesting that I get a preference because I am on maternity leave, surely that means a man could make a case using sex descrimination grounds?
The world is a tricky place nowadays!

[flowerybeanbag]

starmucks they might hesitate yes, and would have to be careful, but they can still do it.

[starmucks]

Damn! I was hoping for once gender discrimination would work in favour of women.

[flowerybeanbag]

Well it does, with women on maternity leave being given preference for other jobs. But it's no guarantee, no.

[starmucks]

FBB are you an employment lawyer or involved with HR? Asking, because if the former do know if it is possible to get stand alone legal insurance.

[Theochris]

Thanks flowery for taking the time it really helps.

My org is looking to make cuts and my line manager has gone for a very high profile job on another site today. If he got it I expect they will make some of the team redundant if they don't want to move (it's 200 miles away). V worrying, roles in my area rarely come up.

If they can't wriggle out of the redundancy payment I think they would prob pay my enhanced mat leave money. It would look quite bad not to and by the time I would be on leave and given notice etc. (2 months) I don't think there would be much shortfall. It takes a while as they have to try to redeploy you and you can appeal.

Libra1975 I wish you lots of luck

[flowerybeanbag]

I am an HR Consultant I'm afraid here's me, not a lawyer. Do you mean buying an insurance policy as an individual to provide legal cover? Don't know about that.

[starmucks]

Great website. Yes, I meant buying a policy which covers legal costs. I know with some household policies, legal costs up to £30k can be claimed. I haven't check mine yet, so I'm not sure what it is.

[1potato2potato]

My office have just issued a number of people, including me, with notification that they might be at risk of redundancy and they are about to start a 30 day consultation process. I am due to start maternity leave in the second week of January. If I am selected for redundancy in mid December and they give me my due notice period (4weeks), I basically start maternity leave during my notice period - do I still qualify for my enhancement package? If so for how long?

I am assuming it would just be until the end of my notice and then it would revert to statutory SMP?

Can I still give 28 days notice and change the date of the start of my maternity leave - bringing it to mid December and therefore getting an enhanced package for longer?

Also the person that has been identified to cover my maternity leave is not at risk of being made redundant - is this considered unfair. On the workingfamilies website it says "If you have been made redundant but the person covering your maternity leave has not, this is not likely to be a genuine redundancy and you should seek legal advice straight away" However the company have used scoring criteria to identify those at risk and would surely argue that the person covering my maternity leave has a higher score and therefore not at risk?

Sorry for all the questions - its a confusing time!

[flowerybeanbag]

1potato2potato if you are talking about an enhanced maternity pay package that your employer offers you will need to check the terms and conditions of it carefully to see whether you will be entitled to it.

If you are on maternity leave at the date you are to be redundant, you get extra protection so if there is a suitable job available, you must be offered it, you can't expect to be put into a pool and compete with others, with scoring and all that, you must get preference.

I would advise you bring your maternity leave forward. If you are notified in December they might make you redundant with immediate effect and pay you in lieu of notice, so you would not be in your maternity leave. I'd bring it forward to be on the safe side.

[1potato2potato]

Thanks flowerybeanbag, the enhanced maternity pay package that I would get is based on being employed for more than one year by EWC so I would qualify.

Would I lose this benefit once I become redundant?

The letter doesnt actually state anything about the 30 day consultation (but they mentioned that at a meeting last wednesday warning people that letters were being issued on the friday) I am assuming the 30 days starts from the letter and would bring me to the 14th Dec. If a gave 28 days notice tomorrow to change the start date it would bring me to the 13th Dec, so effectively would be on maternity leave when they gave me notice. I am just a bit worried about going in there tomorrow 'guns-a-blazing' and only make it harder for myself?

One friend suggested that they might just be trying to be seen to be doing things fairly and across the board and have no intention of actually doing it - but then why put me through the stress?

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[flowerybeanbag]

I wouldn't expect an enhanced package to be paid to someone no longer in employment. Is there no condition on it about returning to work for a certain period afterwards or anything like that? It would normally be paid to employees only, not ex-employees.

If the letter doesn't state that there will be a 30 day consultation period how do you know there will be one? Are there 20 or more people going to be made redundant?

I don't think changing your maternity leave dates would be going in 'guns blazing', it would just be protecting yourself. Your friend might be right, they may have no intention of making you redundant, but if they are going through a fair process they wouldn't necessarily want to exclude you from the start.

[BecsP]

I am probably going to be made redundant at the beginning of December as the company I work for is proposing to close the production side of the business and am currently on maternity leave. I am due to see our HR department next week and want to try and gather as much info as i can, I know if they make me redundant now they have to pay up all my SMP, my 3 months notice & redundancy but as i was never guaranteed going back into that role and it is the job not the person that is made redundant. So surely i can carry on being an employee gain more holiday, including bank holidays and then they make me redundant?
Or am I being just too simplistic and just trying to get out of them what I can - especially as they made my partner redundant a month before I started my maternity leave!!

Any info would be great, many thanks Becs