Please help me get my head together for Salary Assessment tomorrow!

[joshhollowayspieceofass]

I'm not posting under my usual posting name, as I know too many RL mnetters and don't want all this info going out into RL.

I work for a big media based company, have done for over 10 years. I'm pretty senior and my currently salary is around £80K.

I'm in a quandry, because despite what I accept is a high salary (I bust my arse and work all hours to support a SAHD and my two DC's on this salary - in London), I am quite significantly underpaid compared to my colleagues. This is a result of my career journey to this point, rather than a reflection on my ability. You'll just have to take my word for it that they really value me at my work place!

When I took my current position, I joined another colleague at a similar level who had reached a level of seniority in a different field, but within the same company. This person X is significantly less qualified than me in my field, but because she had built up her salary in another area, she simply carried it over into her new department.

Because of a dreadful lack of confidentiality at my work, I know what she is paid, and it's over £20k more than me. We do the same job.

3 years ago at a pay review I was told they couldn't close the gap that year, but that the next year would be "my year". Last year came round, I was on maternity leave, and surprise, surprise, I was passed over again for a payrise.

I was then told categorically, once I returned to work, not to expect a pay rise this year either. That they were putting a new structure in place and it was the end of the big pay hikes of yesteryear. Except, I know my company inside out, and even my Head of Department said at the time, "but you and I know these things have a habit of changing".

So essentially, I've put in a time to discuss my salary with my Head of Department tomorrow, because I just feel I'm not being paid fairly and I owe it to myself and my family not to roll over and accept the situation.

Now, the problem is, I've kind of had the stuffing knocked out of me by everything that has happened to date, and I just don't know what to say tomorrow. Previously I felt so passionately that I deserved this payrise, and now, I just feel like I've lived with it so long I've lost my oomph.

I still think I should have a degree of parity with my colleage.

I still believe I'm a very valuable asset to the team.

We are overstaffed, but not at my level, and it's all a bit awkward and badly managed. In other words, they are probably paying people they don't really need.

How can I get my mojo together for this chat tomorrow?

Oh, and the industry I'm is not affected by recession, so they can't use credit crunch argument.

Any advice gratefully received.

[flowerybeanbag]

Firstly career journey has little if anything to do with salary in the existing role. Salary should reflect your worth to the company - mostly in terms of skills and experience, and should be on a par with colleagues with similar skills and experience and should also reflect to a degree the external marketplace, going rates for your job in similar organisations.

I?m guessing you?ve been told previously that the jobs you happen to have had before make some difference to your salary as one of the excuses not to increase your salary. That?s codswallop, quite frankly. The only difference previous jobs make is to the experience you have or have not gained doing those jobs. It's not the jobs themselves, it's whether they have enabled you to bring the experience you need to the role.

So, if someone applied for a role as an HR Manager, had 6 years experience in HR, 2 as an assistant, 2 as an HR Officer, and 2 as an HR Advisor, they might be worth more than someone who applied with 6 years experience, 4 as an assistant, 2 as an HR Officer. But the reason for that would be that the first person would have acquired more relevant experience than the second one.

I?m going to make the assumption (as I know no different), that you are indeed underpaid, you are not paid what equivalent people doing an equivalent job are elsewhere, and your colleague is doing the same/very similar job to you, with the same/very similar skills and experience, and is paid a great deal more.

If your colleague was sat in your department doing your job for £x before you arrived, when you joined doing the same job, you should have insisted on £x amount as well, quite frankly, assuming her experience is of equal value to yours and the job you are doing is the same. Where you happened to be previously in the company is irrelevant. Was the job advertised internally? What salary was it advertised at?

The reason you are underpaid is because you haven?t challenged the disparity strongly enough in the past. You?ve rolled over and let them get away with it, to be blunt. What have been the reasons given for not being able to close the gap, and for not sorting it out just because you were on maternity leave?

You need to go in there with supporting information. You need to have details of current jobs advertised in similar fields at the salary you want. You need to have details of exactly how you add sufficient value to the company that they should pay you £20k more than they are. Appraisals if you have them, feedback you?ve had, facts and figures.

If it?s credible that you might easily know (without any dodgy behaviour that might make you look of questionable ethics) your colleague?s salary, by all means make a direct comparison.

I know you say the credit crunch can?t be a reason, but even if it isn?t directly, the fact is that in most job markets, as a result of the credit crunch, or whatever you want to call it, there are more candidates available for fewer jobs. So even if they can?t actually cite that as a reason, they can feel a bit more confident that they?ll be able to replace you so don't need to panic and chuck money at you.

Whether they?ll go for it depends on how much they value you - how devastated they?d be if you were to resign, how likely they think it is that you would do that, how easy it would be for them to replace you, and for how much, and how much revenue the company would lose as a direct result of you going.

[joshhollowayspieceofass]

That's incredible helpful beanbag, and I appreciate you taking the time.

X joined my company 2 years before I did, but took 3 years out when she had kids (consecutively, rather than maternity leaves, IYSWIM). She became head of her own department, but it was a department of one (if that makes sense). That department was shut down and she was moved over to my area, but we were in different "teams". 2 years ago the teams were consolidated so we are part of one department now. I, on the other hand, have always worked in my particular area of expertise, starting as a PA 11 years ago, then junior exec, then up through the ranks. For a while, I worked on product that was not core business, which was used as an excuse not to raise my salary, but they needed my expertise launching it, and it was a passion for me.

Unfortunately, I cannot make comparisons across the industry in the UK, as, as a company, we are market leader and there is no one to touch us. I would have to look to the US and I feel confident that making comparisons there, I am still underpaid.

You are right, I have been too timid in the past. Yes, I can reasonably state that I know x's salary - I have stated it in two previous reviews. They argue that she is more highly paid due to circumstances - in the way that someone hired in to do my job now, might feasibly be able to command more money than me because they haven't graduated through the ranks, and are more in a position to demand something upon being offered the job.

The credit crunch issue definitely does not apply, as I could probably count on one hand the number of people qualified in this country to do my job - and even less than that whom my employers would hire - because they can't bear working with new people, they like people who have grown up through the company and know the brand. At 11 years, I am the senior member of staff with least years served, which gives you some idea of the monopoly on the market my company has. You just can't really go anywhere else.

And there's the nub I suppose. Deep down, they kind of know that you can't really go anywhere else. But they do get nervous because after such length of service and experience, you become harder and harder to replace. So yes, I think they'd be devastated if I resigned, but they know I'm not going to - so, rock and hard place.

But your post has been incredibly helpful helping me get my ducks in a row, so to speak.

[joshhollowayspieceofass]

I should also have said, that neither one of us got our existing senior jobs from any kind of advertising, internally or otherwise. It was just promotion from within. We only ever interviewed for our starting assistant roles.

BTW, X and I are very good friends.

[flowerybeanbag]

Glad that's helped a bit. Obviously you know your market better than I do, but even if you are the market leader, there might be something to be said for how much above market rates your company usually pays - 10, 20, 50% more than nearest competitor or whatever?

I understand that your own options elsewhere are limited, but it does sound as though your are very valuable to them and replacing you would be a headache they really don't want, so don't underestimate how stroppy firm you can be in your negotiations.

Out of interest, if you are very good friends with this colleague, does she support you in this claim. Not obviously that she should be involved in any way in your discussions, just interested in whether she thinks it's outrageous she is paid so much more than you or not?

Good luck anyway, hope you have a fruitful meeting.

[joshhollowayspieceofass]

Hmm, it's tricky. We slightly skirt the issue because it is a bit embarrassing. She is on her own pay crusade anyway - she's in a position to leverage better than me and has made an ultimatum she's in a position financially and emotionally to follow through (she's older - her DH is very successful, she is ready to think about a new phase in her career). I'm almost 10 years younger than her (again, something I think is a factor in why they think they can get away with my pay - perhaps not consciously, but nonetheless). We have talked a lot about how we are paid in comparison to US peers, and frankly our HOD's, but it's just a way of offloading about other things really that are frustrating about our jobs.

Realistically, I need to look at at least another 10 years in this company - I'm in my early 30's and I have to use it to see my very young family grow up, to carve something away of our obscene mortgage etc.

If I'm honest, you have hit the nail on the head when you say I have let them get away with it. I come from a background where this kind of money was unimaginable. I think that infects my thinking. My colleague, adorable as she is, was much more privileged growing up and has a confidence and a sense of entitlement that has served her well. I keep fluctuating from thinking I'm being screwed, to questioning how anyone can even be paying me what they are.

But now my income is our sole income - I have to do something. And I will! I won't find out what the outcome is until Xmas, but they put in the salary requests to the parent company around now, so hence the review

[flowerybeanbag]

Interesting. You are probably right, the disparity in your ages is one reason (consciously or subconciously) that they think they don't need to pay you as much.

You are also right to identify that your background and attitude to money is a key reason you've let them get away with it. I know what you mean. £80k by lots of ordinary people's standards is an obscene amount of money, so there's probably a sense of guilt that you are receiving that money when your parents worked hard but never got anything like that much, plus a nagging feeling of why on earth would anyone pay that much for me, feeling that you are going to get 'found out' at any moment.

There was a study that came out recently about what proportion of men negotiate starting salary and ask for salary increases compared to women, and there was a large disparity, linked to the difference in salary earned. There's a reason for that, and a more bolshy sense of entitlement and worth is a big part of it, rather than the slightly apologetic gratitude that often comes from women. Huge generalisation obviously, but I'm sure this is ringing some bells for you. It's just a hurdle you need to get over with yourself as you of course know.

You need to think of your current salary and the salary you want in terms of how much you are worth to the company, how much you deserve in comparison to colleagues and also how much a decent lifestyle in (presumably) London or similar city with a mortgage actually costs these days.

You may not find out until Christmas, but you can certainly go away from this meeting with a confirmation of what your boss is going to request for you, and what supporting information and justification he will use.

[joshhollowayspieceofass]

Beanbag - just to say, had my review. My boss told me that I put myself across very well, and she agreed with all my points. She has said she will do what she can, but reiterrated that the chairmen have stipulated (as they did earlier in the year) that there will be no more payrises. I had my 5 points written down which I culled from our exchanges, so I really want you to know that you have geniunely helped someone in taking the time to post - so thanks.

Incidentally, my boss also told me though, that I should be f'ing off and doubling my salary running X or Y company, which I sort of know I am capable of - I just need to figure out whether I'm ready to take on something like that with my family being so young. She was speaking woman to woman at that point - after we'd concluded the official review. She's right - but I'm not good at change!

Food for thought.

[flowerybeanbag]

How sexist of me to assume your boss was a man! Most unlike me I do assure you!

SOunds as though the meeting went well, and I'm glad some of my thoughts helped you.

Interesting about what your boss said about other things you could be doing. Definitely food for thought absolutely, I would give it serious realistic consideration and don't allow any self-doubt or guilt to stop you, only actual real reasons if there are any.

[joshhollowayspieceofass]

Just looked at your profile and see you are in HR - silly me, should have realised.

Can't believe I just got your excellent services for free.

We are a department of 6 women, which I guess is relatively unusual, but I think it has as much to do with the fact that our ultimate bosses are both men, and are much happier dealing with women.

No need to be !

[flowerybeanbag]

Yes sorry because I post in this section a lot I am blithely posting away assuming everyone who reads knows my background. I do indeed know (a smidgen of) what I am talking about.

Glad I could help anyway.