Should I Stay or Should I Go?

[SpanishLady]

I'm not sure anyone can help me but I need someone to say the one thing that will decide it for me.

Background: a few years back I moved for a big job opportunity - I worked for a well known company and was given the role but without the title (this was something they reassured me I would work up to asap) - it proved very hard to do the job effectively without the proper mandate and it became apparent my manager was telling another colleague in my team that he thought maybe she would be better for the job so started playing us off against each other. I persevered for 2 years and had gotten on a pretty level playing field (good feedback from senior stakeholders, the team had stopped ignoring me and keeping me out of the loop, the other colleague proved to be inexperienced and deferred to me.) Then I raised an issue with a process which caused some issues for my Manager (issues unrelated to what I had looked into) and he had me made redundant. The redundancy was challenged (not by me but internally) and I was offered another role but I had had enough of the politics by then and asked for the redundancy to continue. I got another job but with a hefty pay cut and in a different part of my industry - vendor role rather than the client role I had left. I like it but maybe its not as challenging and generally it is considered better to be client rather than vendor.

I have now received a job offer for the same job I was made redundant from (by a peer of the company I used to work for) but this time with the full title, clear reporting lines to me etc - but the salary is way lower then at my first company (talking a difference of nearly 2k a month) - I think if they were offering the same as my last company doing the same job I would take it and feel that I have gotten back to where I was but hopefully in a better environment but I feel a bit pissed off that they want me to do the same job in the same field in the same industry for quite a bit less - but these opportunities don't come up so often....should I take it with the view that this gives me the better opportunity to advance my career then my present vendor job does though the vendor job is much easier for me and the pays is similar?

[itlypocerka]

If you'll enjoy the job more then it's worth considering. If the pay difference is £2000 a month we must be in 6 figure salary territory here? In which case if you can manage to pay for your basic living expenses then being happy in your job is way more valuable than extra money you don't really need for survival. That said, how much have you tried to negotiate them up on salary? They may have made an ultra low offer on the assumption that you will negotiate hard.

[SpanishLady]

Thanks for reading my epic post!

Yes with my first job I was (just about) in 6 digits but would now drop down to £85k and would have to try and build back up to where I was.

I think it makes sense but is not the safe option (staying where I am is as am doing well here probably as a bit over qualified) and the last time I took the plunge into the unknown I had the worst 2 years of my life! But I have completed my family and am now at the best stage to get to the highest level in my industry (one level up from the job on the table).

I think I have to take it but wish they paid me properly and didn't have an office in the armpit if the city!

[SpanishLady]

On the salary front they asked what I thought and I answered truthfully that the base seemed low ( they know what I was on previously) - I told them I need to run some numbers and read through offer so will get back to them on Thursday (I have back to back meetings tomorrow and felt I needed more than one night to sleep on it as it's quite a shortfall)

We can live on the wage ( know it sounds a lot).

[DoreenLethal]

Gosh - who gets out of bed for a mere £85k these days?

[SantasLittleMonkeyButler]

That's not really the point here is it, Doreen?

If the same job, in the same industry, with other employers pays much more (I'm no maths wizz, no idea what actual salary would equate to £2k per month more than £85k - but it must be a big jump!), then of course you're going to have doubts about taking it.

Ultimately, though, if the salary offered is the same or similar to what you are now on and having this new job title on your CV will help your career advance in the future then, yes, I probably would do it.

This may seem like an obvious question, but have you told the prospective new employer that you are interested in the job, but that you couldn't accept the salary offered? There's often room for negotiation salary wise isn't there?

[SpanishLady]

Doreen - fair enough comment, I know how it sounds - its a first world problem without a doubt but trust me I do earn it but am lucky.

Santas - thanks - I couldn't get across the discrepancy in pay if I didn't say how much which then means people can kind of work out what salary range it is in but it isn't about money for its own sake as you say.

They know there is quite a discrepancy and I am mindful of it - they took a week between job offer to giving me the package details and I have asked for 2 days to read over it - this may backfire and they will be annoyed I haven't bitten their hand off or they may up their offer when we have our next meeting or they wont and I will have to decide based on what's on the table. I think I know that I will take it but wanted to lay out the issue here as struggling to speak to people in RL who all have their bias or angle on the situation (e.g. friends who could benefit workwise having me in this position, friend who was turned down for a job by this company etc)

I appreciate the feedback

[itlypocerka]

The two most senior (both male) people in the last big office I worked at both had anecdotes about negotiation of salary during recruitment - tell them you have the skills they need, you earn every penny and more in value to the company and therefore you believe you are worth paying £[name a larger sum than than you actually hope for]. Then be quiet. (It's called the "ask and shut up" rule) don't continue to justify or persuade until they have replied to the ask - if the person who you have to speak to can't authorise that amount under their own authority then ask them to liaise with whoever can make such a decision and get back to you as soon as possible. If they do have the authority then stay quiet until they speak first (have ready further justification eg an estimation of the increase in business to the company your skills could bring, but only bring that out if they say no) - they probably know you are worth the bigger number and will improve on their initial number.

[SpanishLady]

thanks Itlpocerka - that's a good approach. I do hope they improve the offer as its setting me back 2 years if they don't - such is life and I'll plough on regardless but just irks as was a hard slog getting to that point!

appreciate all the help

[DoreenLethal]

Doreen - fair enough comment, I know how it sounds - its a first world problem without a doubt but trust me I do earn it but am lucky

It is in poor taste when so many people are barely scraping by. You didn't have to be so specific.

Incidentally I used to earn a wage like that. I hated the corporate world so left and now work with people with learning difficulties and disabilities. Lowest wages I've ever earnt [gone back 25 years] and yet, the best job ever. Weird that.

[OllyBJolly]

Good for you,Doreen but everyone is different.

Giving more information when asked is not in poor taste. It's very relevant to the OP's dilemma. If the difference was £50k to minimum wage the advice might be very different.

[DoreenLethal]

Good for you, Doreen but everyone is different.

Aye and thank goodness for that.

[MotherFuckingChainsaw]

Its important to discuss actual amounts though

This silly British reticence to discuss salaries helps maintain unfair pay gaps and only benefits the employer.

[itlypocerka]

reticence to discuss salaries helps maintain unfair pay gaps

This.

Especially because females are more likely to be socialised to find pursuit of money distasteful and to take joy in more menial, lower prestige and badly paid work getting job satisfaction from the benefits to others. Whereas males are more likely to be taught to be confident that they are worth the best salary, don't-ask-don't-get, that money is a way to keep score and nice guys finish last.

A balance between these attitudes would be healthiest all round but meanwhile the gendered bias in how males and females are socialised on these issues creates an unfair pay gap. We can combat this by being more confident in ourselves in these kinds of negotiations.

[Hoppinggreen]

Medal for Doreen

[SpanishLady]

Just to finish the thread - I have taken the job and hope it works out! Appreciate the advice - esp on being stronger on negotiating ( will have to apply next time)

For anyone concerned about amounts being talked about - I can easily apply it to any amount: my 'issue' was that I had been paid £18k for doing a job and now for the same job I was being offered a lesser amount that meant on a net basis I felt the difference in pay eg the difference was £200 a month which is significant whilst I could have lived with a £20 deficit. So was that acceptable if the job in essence should allow me to progress my job and earning potential down the road.

I am not ashamed of what I earn - I could explain how nothing has been handed to me and I had to study, work and had to act on opportunities as they came up but I personally don't think that matters as I don't think people should have to validate their achievements as what those are, are subjective.

I however did get the sense from one poster that somehow I lack the same virtues as the person 'scraping' by - I dont think the world works like that - low income people aren't all noble and not all high income people nasty pieces of work. And I also found it ironic that said poster didn't seem to get that by virtue of their choosing to change career path - to just switch from a corporate role to one working in public service makes her (him) one of the privileged few - to choose/decide/desire something and just do it is something the truly poor can only dream of - choices, options are not readily available to everyone.

Wholly agree with comments about women and earning ceilings / it's not even just in compensation where women can be disadvantaged. A project came up just after I went back to work after mat leave - I put my hat in the ring to lead it and was met with surprise by my management given my baby was 7 months old - they told me they had discounted me as assumed is be too busy with the baby. I got the project but did wonder if a male colleague whose wife/partner had had a baby 7 months prior would have been immediately discounted - I don't think he would have been.