Does anyone know about employment law please!

(48 Posts)
Unicorn1981 Mon 19-Sep-16 15:10:31

I was due to start a new job tomorrow 11 miles away. I did a total of 7 hours training on two days before I started so I could understand the job before the current person left. This cost me in childcare and fuel for my car. Over the weekend our car broke down and will now be scrapped. I called my employer and explained the situation. He said to look into my options and call him tomorrow. I told him the truth, that I didn't feel I could borrow money to buy a new car and public transport will take nearly two hours. I have to collect my child within an hour. I also employed a childminder for the one day she isn't at preschool as he wanted me to work that day. Anyway he called me back a couple of hours later and said he felt my heart wouldn't really be in the job and I'm not willing to use public transport. I agreed that I thought it would be too much. He said he'd be happy to re employ me should the situation change. However when I asked him who I should give my details to pay me for the training he said he couldn't pay me because I hadn't started the job. Is this right?

flowery Mon 19-Sep-16 17:15:42

Well it's not that he can't pay you. He could put you on the payroll system and set you up as a new starter, pay you 7 hours and then process you as a leaver.

Was there an agreement that the training would be paid?

Unicorn1981 Mon 19-Sep-16 18:28:00

Yes on the phone I said you will pay me for this training and he said yes but sounded a bit put out. But my contract says start date of tomorrow. It's not much money but the principal really gets to me

flowery Tue 20-Sep-16 06:12:24

Well I imagine the 'principle' of going to the effort, time and expense of recruiting someone, getting them trained up and then them letting you down the day before they are due to start work is 'getting to' him...

I think how hard you push this depends on whether this- "He said he'd be happy to re employ me should the situation change."- is important to you.

If you're not bothered about maintaining good relations with him, fine. But he's feeling let down and irritated right now so pushing him to incur even more wasted costs than he has will probably mean burning your bridges.

VashtaNerada Tue 20-Sep-16 06:15:27

I had a similar situation very recently where I'm in the manager's position and I most certainly paid for the training days (although technically after her contract start date - it wouldn't have mattered to me if it had been before though). Are you a member of a union?

insancerre Tue 20-Sep-16 06:27:00

Get a bank loan and get another car
You can pay it off with your wages

Shadowridge Tue 20-Sep-16 06:28:15

I would not ask for payment. You have messed them about a quite a bit at very short notice and i think they are being very reasonable saying they will remploy you. It is really not for your employer to worry how you get yourself to work, you have a contract with a start date and you are choosing now to break it. If the only feasible way to do the job is to drive there then you need to buy a cheap car from ebay/gumtree or acccept that with public transport you are unable to fulfil your contract and write off the training days.

OhTheRoses Tue 20-Sep-16 06:35:54

I'm sorry you are disappointed and your car has reached the end of the road.

However, you accepted the job and are now unavailable for work. Had the company called you after the training and said they didn't think you were suitable then of course you would be entitled to the pay.

He has,said there is a job for you if/when your circumstances change. The offer of employment hasn't been revoked.

flowery Tue 20-Sep-16 08:40:56

I was also in a very similar situation recently. I employed someone, paid to get them trained only for them to change their mind. I told her to submit a time sheet for the time spent being trained, and would have paid it, but knew that if it was me that had let someone down, I wouldn't dream of doing so.

She hasn't submitted the time sheet and as a result we still have a good relationship which is likely to benefit both of us in future.

Unicorn1981 Tue 20-Sep-16 13:45:11

Like I said I wasn't going to ask bu dp suggested it. At the end of the day he already pushed me into employing a childminder so I could fulfil the hours he wanted me to do rather than the hours I could do. And it was not my fault the car broke down. Something I could not have foreseen. What if I had started work there and this had happened? Would he not have been expected to pay me for that. At least I know what he's like now. I would never have taken the job of i thought it would happen and when this once happened to me in a previous job I ended up buying a new (more reliable) car and am still paying for it even though I sold it! We can't all just borrow money plus public transport would have been out of the question. He could at least reimburse me for the fuel I used.

Unicorn1981 Tue 20-Sep-16 13:47:25

Oh and I also told him I could look into leasing but it would take a couple of weeks. He said he wasn't prepared to wait that long.

flowery Tue 20-Sep-16 14:58:39

"At the end of the day he already pushed me into employing a childminder so I could fulfil the hours he wanted me to do rather than the hours I could do."

confused No that's not how it works. The employer sets the hours they want worked, and the person applying for/considering accepting the job decides whether they are happy with those hours and makes their own arrangements in order to enable them to fulfil those hours. He hasn't 'pushed' you into using a childminder, and he is not expected to arrange the jobs he is recruiting around the personal circumstances and preferences of people applying for/considering accepting those jobs.

Of course it wasn't your fault that your car broke down, but how you deal with that in order to ensure you can fulfil your commitments isn't his problem. In answer to your question about what would have happened if you had already started work, well you would have been expected to make alternative arrangements to get to work for at least the duration of your notice period (if you chose to resign because of transport difficulties).

If it is clear the agreement was that you would be paid for the time spent training then you could probably pursue it if you want to. I probably wouldn't and neither would lots of other people for the reasons on this thread, but if you want to you have that option, and should start with a letter setting out what he owes you, and on what basis you have come to that calculation, and requesting that he makes payment as soon as possible.

Radiatorvalves Tue 20-Sep-16 15:16:17

From the employer's perspective, and I appreciate this may not be relevant to you, but we had a temp who was engaged for a period of 6 months, on a 4 week notice period. She walked out and left us in the lurch. We sued for the losses she had incurred (having to get a new more expensive temp at a short notice) and she ended up having to pay about 450. She didn't, and so got a county court judgment against her.

As I say, this is probably totally irrelevant to you, but do think about the impact of your actions on the employer.

Unicorn1981 Tue 20-Sep-16 15:25:48

Just to make this clear. I never would walk out on a job/not turn up/ change my mind. I rang him and let him know what had happened. I guess this job just wasn't the right thing. By the way it says on his profile on the company website he is stingy grin

It sounds like you don't want the job at all in any event?

Unicorn1981 Tue 20-Sep-16 16:33:14

I really did. The job itself looked good but it was the distance plus the extra day away from my daughter. It's really difficult to find a good home/life balance. Plus my last job was a total nightmare. There was a woman there who put me down all the time. So I was nervous but up for it. Truth be told I swore I wouldn't do any more office jobs but I'm not skilled in anything else. So my dp persuades me to apply for them and do them and I do it out of guilt because we have a lot of debt and my wage would help to pay it off. I'm 35 and I don't know what I even want to do job wise. I probably need to grow up but I can't help thinking I could still get out of this rut. However, with this job I was totally up for doing it and it was only because of the car I can't start it. I guess I'm just trying to make myself feel better by saying well there's other reasons. The public transport would've taken an hour and a half on a good day and I have to collect my daughter from preschool an hour after I finish so it really wouldn't have worked.

Motheroffourdragons Tue 20-Sep-16 16:38:45

The thing is, you shouldn't really go for a job if you can't get to it by public transport. Cars have a habit of breaking down just when you need them, so you always need a back up plan.
I think your heart wasn't in this by the sounds of things.
Of course you can get out of the rut, you are still young. Maybe you could consider a university course, or retraining of some kind ?

I think you need to decide what it is you would like to do.

Unicorn1981 Tue 20-Sep-16 17:23:33

I think you're right. Which makes me sound awful like I messed him around. I really didn't but deep down I think my heart probably wasn't in it. When I drove to the interview my head was saying this is too far. It was the first and only job I have interviewed for. Thing is it was dp who applied for the last job for me and look what happened there! He's now said he's leaving me to it! I am not the type who won't work though because I like to be busy and applying myself to something. I felt really bad about letting down the childminder too so I am hoping I'll need to take her back on at some point! I was going to do a healthcare course four years ago but as I was about to start it I got pregnant with dd. We had been trying for years and I thought it wouldn't happen. Now I'm not sure. I always wanted to be a police officer but had bad luck with applications. I like the idea of teaching assistant or nursery worker.

Unicorn1981 Tue 20-Sep-16 17:43:19

Although even if my heart was completely in it (and I was looking forward to it) I still couldn't have done anything about it anyway.

Its bollocks that you need to be able to access every job by public transport though isn't it, because plenty of people don't love near public transport.

But you do need to be able to get there, yes.

roarfeckingroar Tue 20-Sep-16 20:52:42

I'm genuinely surprised you think you should be paid. You gained training, it cost you due to your own circumstances, it also probably cost them and then you left them in the lurch, albeit not your fault. Your transport and childcare issues are not the problem or responsibility of your employer, that isn't how employment works.

roarfeckingroar Tue 20-Sep-16 20:54:39

Sorry X post

queenofthepirates Tue 20-Sep-16 21:11:05

I am a manager and I would be livid at your attitude. Recruitment is costly and time intensive. You have CHOSEN not to find a suitable car and let this new company down at the very last minute. Your sense of entitlement is rather galling. You seem to have given little thought to your employers and frankly I rather hope you don't come across my path.

NewIdeasToday Tue 20-Sep-16 21:26:37

Quote. *At the end of the day he already pushed me into employing a childminder so I could fulfil the hours he wanted me to do rather than the hours I could do.

Before you look for another job I suggest you talk to a few people about how employment works. The employer pays you for being available to do what they want and when they want it. You seem to view it as something you do at your convenience.

Unicorn1981 Tue 20-Sep-16 21:29:48

Queen I absolutely wouldn't want to work for you. You sound horrible.

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