She won't employ me!

[cakesandphotos]

Until last Monday, I was employed as a nanny by a lovely family. Unfortunately they're moving to Australia for a year so I'm looking for more work. For the last year I have been helping a lady out with childcare one day a week for which she gave me cash in hand (a bit iffy perhaps but it suited us both) she now wants me to work at least two days a week and I want her to employ me but she says she's happy with our currant arrangement and doesn't want to change.
Cash in hand was fine while I was paying tax and national insurance etc with my other job but now I don't have that I need to be employed. We're also wanting a mortgage and any money she gives me is worthless towards that. And don't even get me started on maternity pay when I need it!
Every says I just need to tell her but I don't want to bite the hand that feeds me. Literally. Any advice??

[Lurkedforever1]

Maybe she doesn't want the hassle of sorting the national insurance, tax etc? Whatever the reason you can't make her, unless you are willing to call her bluff and say either she employs you or you won't do it. Either way, no reason you can't be self employed and do the paperwork yourself.

[cakesandphotos]

I can't be self employed as a nanny unless I work for 3 families or more so that's not an option

[lighteningirl]

How have you been declaring the cash in hand on your tax return? You just need to declare more.

[Branleuse]

well you cant make her do it.

You either take what she offers you, or stop doing it and get something else

[cakesandphotos]

How can I declare it without registering as self employed?

[fastdaytears]

Were you not declaring the earnings from her though? That's not "iffy" at all...

[flowery]

"no reason you can't be self employed and do the paperwork yourself."

There's every reason the OP can't do that. Employment status isn't an opt-in thing. It's not decided by the employer or the worker, it is determined by the nature of the work and the nature of the relationship.

It sounds like this would be employment OP. Payment via cash isn't the issue, refusal to make NI contributions, tax payments and denial of employment entitlements like holiday, statutory sick pay etc are the issue.

If this woman is prepared to deny you your rights she would be a dreadful employer and you should walk away.

[cakesandphotos]

No because it was just a few pounds and, at least I thought, was temporary

[cakesandphotos]

Thanks flowery :) maybe you're right. It's worth a shot asking her again, perhaps more "insistently"
I just can't afford not to have work, my husband isn't on a huge wage and life goes on. Why isn't anything simple!?

[WickedWax]

By 'cash in hand' do you mean that you took the cash but did not declare it, not pay tax, NI, etc?

But now you want to do it all by the book?

[Bambooshoots14]

So you want to pay tax / ni when it suits you but not otherwise? Serves you right

[queenofthepirates]

She can find a local accountant to handle the payroll-I pay someone £10 a month to handle mine and it takes all the hassle out of it. HMRC would take a dim view of this!

[TheBestChocolateIsFree]

I think realistically you need to say to her that in that case you'll continue to work on the current (illegal) basis but you will be seeking full time legitimate employment elsewhere.

[fastdaytears]

No because it was just a few pounds and, at least I thought, was temporary

One day's work a week is not a few pounds. You've been evading tax, sorry if that makes some of us a bit grumpy. Good luck with that.

[cakesandphotos]

I'm starting to wish I never asked for advice. I paid tax and ni up until last week. And quite a lot too. What I was getting wouldn't even have required me to pay tax and now I'll be earning more, I want to pay because I'll be earning enough.
I couldn't have been self employed anyway

[PatriciaHolm]

I would tell her, calmly, that you've taken advice from HMRC and you can't be self employed under the new arrangement. If she's not prepared to sort it out ( which its in her interest to do, she'll be the one in trouble if they find out) then look for something else - perhaps with more hours if you are looking to get a mortgage?

[Stillunexpected]

If you were earning enough from your other job to pay tax and NI, then you should have been paying tax on the one day a week job as well. You don't get a tax allowance per job.

It's very simple, you tell your potential employer that if she is choosing the days and hours you work you need to be employed by her. If she doesn't want to do that, then you will need to find another job. Presumably you need more than two days a week work anyway so although the two days with her is probably tempting it also restricts your availability for other families. Have you tried finding other jobs?

[fastdaytears]

I'm starting to wish I never asked for advice. I paid tax and ni up until last week. And quite a lot too. What I was getting wouldn't even have required me to pay tax and now I'll be earning more, I want to pay because I'll be earning enough

You were breaking the law. You must have known people would point that out?

[caroldecker]

You were stealing around 30% of the extra money from a disabled child - not sure you are suitable to be a nanny.

[expatinscotland]

You need to walk away from this.

[Alibabsandthe40Musketeers]

You don't pay tax per job, you pay it on your overall earnings. So your income from this second job would have been added to your main income and an overall amount of tax calculated.

[nannynick]

Maybe she is concerned about the cost that being an employer involves.

Perhaps we can do some figures for you to help give her an idea of what her costs would be each month (I do suggest monthly payroll for keeping cost down). She may be concerned about the hassle of doing the payroll - so have you told her about outsouring that to a payroll company like NannyPaye or NannyTax?

Two days per week is very likely to be over the Lower Earnings Threshold for National Insurance so would be declarable. Two days per week is a job, it is not self employment where you are deciding when to work, turning up if you feel like it, not having a lot of commitment.

Occasional babysitting may fall under self employment but a permanent job is most likely to be employment so should be done under PAYE.

[nameschangerer]

You shouldn't be getting a hard time by people over this and realistically you'll not be earning enough to pay tax or ni either so everyone should get off their high horses.

there is plenty of free software she can use to pay you and declare it all legally. It will take her ten minutes a month or week to sort.

[nameschangerer]

www.gov.uk/payroll-software/overview

[nannynick]

Some very simple calculation:

If you were paid £200 for doing 2 days a week...

Annual Salary: £10,400
Monthly Employee NI deducted: £23.40
Monthly Employee Income Tax deducted: £0.00
Monthly Employers NI which employer pays in addition: £26.31
Nanny's Net Pay: £843.27 per month.

listentotaxman.com/10400

Payroll Admin for monthly payroll typically costs around £200 a year.

So employer would have costs of:
Gross Salary £10,400
Employers NI: £315.72
Payroll Admin: £200.00

Total before day to day expenses: £10,915.72

Day to day expenses would be things like Activities/Mileage: £ ???