Referees declined to supply references

[peppaistired]

Hello everybody, I'm looking for some advice. I was trying to apply for a job last week, and when I contacted my line manager and her line manager, they both refused to provide references for me. I never had this in my life happening to me.

I never had any issues with them, but there was a malicious complaint once filed by somebody I supervise against my job share, and I went out to defend my job share 100%, and not the other person. I didn't think it was going to have a negative effect at the time, but now I can see it was the wrong thing to do. I should have kept my mouth shut.

One of them told me to put down the HR department, but I think that will look terrible, and the other one told me she couldn't provide personal references and that I should put down my line manager.

I'm not sure this is part of a corporate trend, to cover themselves. But as far as I know there's no grievances against me anywhere, unless that person I supervised has said something somewhere against me. I feel so depressed and paranoid now. Don't know what to do.

The HR department should have told me if there was something filed against me.

[Framboisier]

It is entirely normal to put your H R department - we specifically do not allow individual managers to provide references, they must be formal company ones, produced only by H R.

[Pico2]

That's perfectly normal. Most larger organisations have a policy of all references following a standard template and going through HR.

[peppaistired]

Thank you so much Framboisier. I'll sleep better tonight thanks to your reply :)

[peppaistired]

Thank you, Pico! I work in public sector but it's becoming very corporate these days.

[peppaistired]

Does anybody know what that template looks like? I'm really intrigued about what's asked.

[500smiles]

YY to HR - everywhere I've worked (other than a v small business) references have to come from HR.

They are usually very generic confirming the dates that you worked there and what your job title was.

[peppaistired]

Thank you, 500mile. How does that work? You put the name of your line manger down and they pass them to HR? Or do you put down the HR department only?

What happens when they ask for the referee's title, occupation, etc etc? Is it OK to put the line manager's name and then the HR contact details?

Will that look suspicious?

[Pico2]

Just ask your HR department who it should be addressed to on Monday. I'm a bit surprised that it has come to this as you should always ask referees whether they are happy to be put down before you list them.

[peppaistired]

I know. That's why I'm so paranoid. Because the fact that they were not happy, makes me think there's something going on and that's why they will not do it.
HR told me to put down my line manager but their contact details, which I think looks very suspicious. I just don't know what to do. I feel terrible. Like I've done something wrong.

[Unexpected]

You are overthinking this. It is perfectly normal these days for companies to require all references to be supplied by their HR department. Assuming your line manager and HR are based at the same address, I would simply put the LM's name and general company address details. All reference requests received at our company are passed on to HR automatically. Also, it doesn't really matter what is asked on the request, what matters is what your company provide which in many cases is simply confirmation of the dates that you worked for the company, your job title and possibly salary.

If you are only at the stage of applying for a job however, it is somewhat unusual to already ask your existing managers for a reference. I know it happens in education but otherwise it could be that they are annoyed you are leaving and are being petulant is saying that they will not provide a reference? Why did you feel it necessary to ask them before being offered a job?

[LightastheBreeze]

When I was made redundant I was told by my company that references had to go through HR and also the same with my previous company. There has been no problem with this when people have asked for references. I have had to provide references for agencies to sign up, but usually if you go through a company you don't give references until they want to employ you.

[peppaistired]

Thank you so much for your replies. It has put my mind at rest.

The reason I asked for permission was that I had to provide two referees on the application form I submitted. I just wanted to make sure they were OK for me to give their details. I work in education so it's done through application form, not CV's.

I put my line manager's name and the HR contact details. I'll do that in all application forms.

I've been having fears they're trying to make me redundant for a while now, that's why I feel so unnerved by it all.

At which stage of the process do they tell people they will make them redundant? I've never been through that so I don't know how it works.

[YonicScrewdriver]

Is there a formal redundancy progress ongoing?

[EBearhug]

There are processes that have to be followed for redundancy.
www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/overview
www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/work_w/work_work_comes_to_an_end_e/work_redundancy_e/redundancy___procedures_your_employer_must_follow.htm
www.acas.org.uk/?articleid=1611

At our place (where I was once at risk), they have a set of points to review. I don't remember all the details, but it includes qualifications, performance (as recorded in your annual performance review), experience, length of service, key skills. I think there were a couple of other sections, too. Basically, the people with the lowest scores are the first to go. I don't know if everywhere does it that way. Also, if you're in a different country, thing may differ - I think the Netherlands is last in, first out, no other criteria considered, for example.

There are also rules over consultancy periods and so on, which vary according to the size of the workforce. Remember that the legal requirements are the minimum - some employers may give better terms than they are required to by law, such as more generous redundancy payments. If this is the case with you, then it will probably have more details in some documentation, such as your contract or staff handbook or online HR policies.

But... if none of this is happening yet, I wouldn't worry too much. I'd say it's the nature of modern work for there normally to be rumours about redundancy cycling round, and sometimes it comes to something, and sometimes it doesn't. If you're thinking about references and you're applying, then you're already ahead of the game if it does happen, because you will have already thought about your CV (or application form equivalent), and that's one of the key things you'd have to do. So concentrate on the application, and stop worrying about redundancy because it may not happen, and you're ready if it does.

[peppaistired]

Thanks a lot everybody for the replies. I am applying for jobs at the moment. I think it's time for me to go whether they're going to make me redundant or not.